And so it goes on: Williams protest RB and Ferrari winglets.

[Dave B]

As per thread title:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74012



The Williams team has protested the legality of the Ferrari and Red Bull cars following qualifying for the Australian Grand Prix.

AUTOSPORT understands that Williams's concerns are related to the aerodynamics of the Ferrari F60 and the Red Bull RB5.

At this rate Lewis could be on pole! :p

[F1boat]

Eye for an eye. Ferrari and Red Bull deserve this.

[christophulus]

If they're illegal then yes, throw them out. Need to prove it first though! I don't really think it's revenge

[F1boat]

If they're illegal then yes, throw them out. Need to prove it first though! I don't really think it's revenge

No, they are just seeking a clarification.

[goodf1fun]

Fiarrari to disqualified? you must be DREAMING! :D

[N. Jones]

This is just craziness - accusations are flying left and right. Can't F1 start off without any controversy? :)

[F1boat]

This is just craziness - accusations are flying left and right. Can't F1 start off without any controversy? :)

It is not Williams who started it! I understand them.

[Dave B]

It does initially sound like tit-for-tat, but Williams would be insane to accuse rivals without good grounds.

Any team who pushes the boundries to their limit is to be applauded - and that includes these winglets - but it's only right that IF they overstep the mark they should be penalised.

[F1boat]

BTW I congratulate McLaren, who are staying out of this, although it may be because Mercedes prefer to win with Brawn, then to see Ferrari winning.

[yodasarmpit]

Surely the teams would have gained clarification from the ruling bodies prior to qualifying, I fail to understand how the teams can make it this far only to be deemed illegal at such a late stage.

I was hoping for a clean racing season this year, yet it's full of controversy before the first race.

[F1boat]

They are calling it the piranha club for a reason.

[N. Jones]

It is not Williams who started it! I understand them.

That's not what I mean. I am lost now because there are so many allegations that I am not sure who is going to come out of this unscathed!

[Dave B]

Surely the teams would have gained clarification from the ruling bodies prior to qualifying, I fail to understand how the teams can make it this far only to be deemed illegal at such a late stage.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the FIA. :\

[Valve Bounce]

BTW I congratulate McLaren, who are staying out of this, although it may be because Mercedes prefer to win with Brawn, then to see Ferrari winning.

I suspect McLaren Mrecedes have a "dodgy" diffuser ready to be bolted on by next weekend. :p :

[BDunnell]

Eye for an eye. Ferrari and Red Bull deserve this.

I don't agree with that. No team deserves to be accused of running illegal equipment without adequate grounds.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Here we go, same old, same old. Let's see how many protests we can rack up until sunset.

[Sonic]

Sorry Williams but the cars passed scrutineering just like yours did - that makes them legal in my mind.

[BDunnell]

Sorry Williams but the cars passed scrutineering just like yours did - that makes them legal in my mind.

Absolutely right. Well said.

[goodf1fun]

it depends..if they have seen flexi wings then that's a problem

[Valve Bounce]

I think Frank has been watching the Red Bull gives you wings advert too much. :p :

[jens]

I would imagine that Max and Bernie are watching these protests and other mess with great pleasure...

[Sonic]

I think Frank has been watching the Red Bull gives you wings advert too much. :p :

ROFL

[Ranger]

I think Frank has been watching the Red Bull gives you wings advert too much. :p :

Brilliant! :p :

[ioan]

Eye for an eye. Ferrari and Red Bull deserve this.

Middle age is long gone, for most of us. :\

[ioan]

Sorry Williams but the cars passed scrutineering just like yours did - that makes them legal in my mind.

Spot on!
I fear that they are protesting because it turned out that Rosberg isn't the world beater they would like us to believe after the 3 practice sessions.

Those who protested after scrutinizing did so without knowing exactly what the performance and the pecking order really is.
Williams are doing it after they half lost the war, this is bad losers all the way.

[ozrevhead]

I think Frank has been watching the Red Bull gives you wings advert too much. :p :
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Sonic]

Spot on!
I fear that they are protesting because it turned out that Rosberg isn't the world beater they would like us to believe after the 3 practice sessions.

Those who protested after scrutinizing did so without knowing exactly what the performance and the pecking order really is.
Williams are doing it after they half lost the war, this is bad losers all the way.

Agreed.
Its sad as Williams is my fave team - but call a spade a spade they are talking trot.

[RJL25]

Eye for an eye. Ferrari and Red Bull deserve this.

You seem to be angry at Ferrari and Red Bull for questioning the diffusers, but I think its fairly clear for the world to see that the "diffuser cars" have a massive advantage over everyone else... whats wrong with seeking clarification especially after BMW tried to use a similar wing a number of years ago and the FIA told them not to bother because it would be deemed illegal!

[christophulus]

Spot on!
I fear that they are protesting because it turned out that Rosberg isn't the world beater they would like us to believe after the 3 practice sessions.

Those who protested after scrutinizing did so without knowing exactly what the performance and the pecking order really is.
Williams are doing it after they half lost the war, this is bad losers all the way.

Patrick Head played down the fact that Rosberg was quick this morning, they aren't pretending to be world beaters. But they are faster than certain larger teams..

Toyota passed scrutineering yesterday but apparently not today. If there'd been a problem with the wings you would have thought the stewards would notice when they were inspecting the diffuser! So they either changed it overnight or the stewards didn't bother inspecting the cars.

Besides, the diffusers have been passed as legal, but that hasn't stopped the other teams protesting, which I think is fairly poor form. Just because they've been outsmarted there's no reason to try and get the other teams banned.

[yodasarmpit]

Spot on!
I fear that they are protesting because it turned out that Rosberg isn't the world beater they would like us to believe after the 3 practice sessions.

Those who protested after scrutinizing did so without knowing exactly what the performance and the pecking order really is.
Williams are doing it after they half lost the war, this is bad losers all the way.I have to agree.
These teams all passed scrutineering yesterday.

[Ghostwalker]

the protest against RB and Ferrari wasnt that about chassis bottom plate?
atleast thats what swedish Aftonbaldet says. link (http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/motor/formel1/article4762548.ab).

*edit no bbc.co.uk says that it was the wings.

[Malbec]

Sorry Williams but the cars passed scrutineering just like yours did - that makes them legal in my mind.

Many of the processes in scrutineering are random, not all the wings are checked for flex for example, otherwise the Toyotas would have been caught before quali.

Some cars, certainly the McLaren, have been receiving and running new parts since scrutineering.

[RJL25]

You know Red Bull have an awful lot to gain out of all this stuff...

They have been proven to be the fastest of the non-diffuser cars, there are claims that these diffusers add around half a second a lap, if they are removed and these teams subsequently loose that half a second, Red Bull Racing will be in the position that Brawn are currently in..........

[RJL25]

and Williams and Toyota will be looking ordinary!

[christophulus]

I wonder when we're going to hear anything official about why Williams have protested? It's after midnight in Aus (I think) so I'd have thought something would have been mentioned by now

[Dr. Krogshöj]

This is an interesting day if you follow F1 and/or Hungarian politics.

I have a question though. Are all cars subjected to the flexi-wing tests during scrutineering or only a random few? Do they run every single test and measurement on every car? Because if Ferrari and Red Bull were not among the selected cars for this particular test, Patrick Head's protest may have some base.


I wonder when we're going to hear anything official about why Williams have protested? It's after midnight in Aus (I think) so I'd have thought something would have been mentioned by now

It means the stewards are still debating it and it's not a straightforward issue. I remember it was well after midnight when they came to a decision in the Alonso/Hamilton qualifying debacle in the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix and it wasn't even an 'evening race'.

[Dave B]

Crisis adverted! Williams have withdrawn their protest
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74018



Despite hours of deliberation by the Australian Grand Prix race stewards following Williams' complaints, and media and other officials being forced to remain at work in the paddock until the matter was resolved, the Grove-based outfit chose to call a halt to its complaints shortly before midnight.

Although the team has declined to comment on the situation, it is understood the protest related to the area of the car surrounding the front edge of the sidepods.

[ioan]

Williams are a bunch of Muppets.

[ozrevhead]

Crisis adverted! Williams have withdrawn their protest
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74018
Phew! What a relief

[christophulus]

Williams are a bunch of Muppets.

Well they certainly haven't covered themselves in glory, protesting about something but not stating what. :confused:

Right, let's get on with the racing...

[Malbec]

Williams are a bunch of Muppets.

Why? If they thought other teams were running something illegal they'd be stupid not to protest.

[ioan]

Why? If they thought other teams were running something illegal they'd be stupid not to protest.

Something? What something?!
And after they lost a few hours of everyone's life they decided to drop the protest?!

That's a bunch of MUPPETS!

[BDunnell]

Many of the processes in scrutineering are random, not all the wings are checked for flex for example, otherwise the Toyotas would have been caught before quali.

To be fair, this has always been a potentially problematic situation which can lead to protests being made for reasons that might not be entirely honourable. I'm reminded of Mazda protesting against the Lancias during the 1987 Monte Carlo Rally, the first event of the 'Group A era'. The Lancias had been passed by scrutineering, and nothing untoward was found, yet Mazda's protest had to be investigated. As I recall, it was suggested that Mazda's objection may have had more to do with the fact that they had not expected to be so comprehensively trounced by the Lancias.

What's the answer? The only one that could cover all bases would be to inspect everything beforehand rather than at random, and then make the scrutineers' decision final. But that would be unfair on legitimate protests, which, after all, do occur sometimes.

[BDunnell]

Something? What something?!
And after they lost a few hours of everyone's life they decided to drop the protest?!

That's a bunch of MUPPETS!

ioan, if Ferrari had done what Williams have done — and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility, no matter what you might think — your opinion on the matter would be entirely different, so I am inclined not to take your protestations seriously.

[Malbec]

Something? What something?!
And after they lost a few hours of everyone's life they decided to drop the protest?!

That's a bunch of MUPPETS!

Williams and the FIA didn't publicise what the complaint was about. That doesn't mean that Williams didn't specify what it was about when they complained to the FIA. Since they had a specific point they wanted clarified, which in the daft rules of the FIA race weekend regs has to be sorted out by lodging a protest, they were right to have done what they did.

[ioan]

ioan, if Ferrari had done what Williams have done — and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility, no matter what you might think — your opinion on the matter would be entirely different, so I am inclined not to take your protestations seriously.

Give me a break. What kind of kindergarten behavior are Williams showing?!

Something like "I'll tell mum that you did...." than when confronted with mum they just give up!?

It's not only unprofessional it's idiotic.

I assume it was like that time when they protested because they saw on TV that some bit on the Ferrari was vibrating only for Brawn to show them a video where the same bit on the Williams BMW was vibrating and flexing much more.
They don't even qualify as a bunch of Muppets now that I think about it.

[Malbec]

What's the answer? The only one that could cover all bases would be to inspect everything beforehand rather than at random, and then make the scrutineers' decision final. But that would be unfair on legitimate protests, which, after all, do occur sometimes.

The problem is though that there simply aren't enough experienced knowledgable scrutineers that could ensure every single aspect of every car is legal before the race surely, which is why the current slightly haphazard random check system is in place isn't it?

One wonders about some of the current scrutineers, I remember in the Honda fuel saga one of the scrutineers demanded the fuel tank be heated up so it could be removed for inspection despite the engineers warning that the result would be an explosion.

[ioan]

Williams and the FIA didn't publicise what the complaint was about. That doesn't mean that Williams didn't specify what it was about when they complained to the FIA. Since they had a specific point they wanted clarified, which in the daft rules of the FIA race weekend regs has to be sorted out by lodging a protest, they were right to have done what they did.

Well they should have made it public, like the other teams did when they protested the diffusers, why hide behind your finger?
Maybe they were not sure? Well they better be sure before they question other teams' cars.

[ioan]

One wonders about some of the current scrutineers, I remember in the Honda fuel saga one of the scrutineers demanded the fuel tank be heated up so it could be removed for inspection despite the engineers warning that the result would be an explosion.

That was a smart scrutineer because they wanted to know if there was fuel in the 2nd tank and the team said no, but by saying it will explode they made it obvious that there was fuel in it! Really good move! :)

[Malbec]

Well they should have made it public, like the other teams did when they protested the diffusers, why hide behind your finger?
Maybe they were not sure? Well they better be sure before they question other teams' cars.

You are failing to understand something simple here.

Williams did not inform the public what they were complaining about. They didn't need to. They did inform the FIA what they were concerned about however, that is part of the process of raising a complaint. Its sad to say but the fact that you seem to think Williams raised a non-specific complaint says more about your understanding of what happened than being a comment on Williams' behaviour.

[BDunnell]

The problem is though that there simply aren't enough experienced knowledgable scrutineers that could ensure every single aspect of every car is legal before the race surely, which is why the current slightly haphazard random check system is in place isn't it?

And it would be an immensely time-consuming process. But I do think that the current situation highlights a potentially major problem, in that, if I'm right (and correct me if I'm not) it is perfectly possible for these items to be protested again at the next meeting and for the scrutineers there to come up with a different verdict.

[Malbec]

And it would be an immensely time-consuming process. But I do think that the current situation highlights a potentially major problem, in that, if I'm right (and correct me if I'm not) it is perfectly possible for these items to be protested again at the next meeting and for the scrutineers there to come up with a different verdict.

My understanding is that if the scrutineers have declared a component legal and there are no protests/complaints then a precedent has been set and that can't be declared illegal at a later date.

I think the whole scrutineering process could do with a good overhaul. I mean, with the current system, it would be possible to run a car with dodgy diffusers for a couple of months in testing say, and only have it declared legal or illegal at the first scrutineering its presented at months later. Just imagine a situation like that....

[ioan]

You are failing to understand something simple here.

Williams did not inform the public what they were complaining about. They didn't need to. They did inform the FIA what they were concerned about however, that is part of the process of raising a complaint. Its sad to say but the fact that you seem to think Williams raised a non-specific complaint says more about your understanding of what happened than being a comment on Williams' behaviour.

I pretty much appreciate transparency, something Williams clearly doesn't.
I think I do have the right to question their secretive behavior.

[Malbec]

I pretty much appreciate transparency, something Williams clearly doesn't.
I think I do have the right to question their secretive behavior.

If you appreciate transparency you're clearly following the wrong sport....

[mstillhere]

BTW I congratulate McLaren, who are staying out of this, although it may be because Mercedes prefer to win with Brawn, then to see Ferrari winning.

WAAAAAAAAAYYY out of it :)

[BDunnell]

I pretty much appreciate transparency, something Williams clearly doesn't.
I think I do have the right to question their secretive behavior.

Why should Williams have to publicise the reasons for their protest? Do you expect to know everything about the internal goings-on in every team? Of course not.

[christophulus]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74019


"After further detailed consideration, Williams has withdrawn both protests in the interests of the sport," said a team statement.


"Williams recognises the possibility that in this area there could be more than one interpretation of the rules and therefore does not feel it appropriate to continue with the protests."


Two fingers up to the diffuser protesters? :p

[ioan]

If you appreciate transparency you're clearly following the wrong sport....

I don't follow F1 for the same thing you do, and I still do believe in people who show transparency in their acts, not those who play behind the curtains, especially the ones that end up looking like idiots.

[ioan]

Why should Williams have to publicise the reasons for their protest? Do you expect to know everything about the internal goings-on in every team? Of course not.

Not inside the teams, but the inter-team wars shoudln't be hidden. for example I consider that Ferrari going public about the McLaren spying affair was the right thing to do and I expect them all to be men enough to make their political claims in public.

[BDunnell]

Not inside the teams, but the inter-team wars shoudln't be hidden. for example I consider that Ferrari going public about the McLaren spying affair was the right thing to do and I expect them all to be men enough to make their political claims in public.

I'm afraid I simply don't understand your viewpoint, and still feel that it would be totally different had it been Ferrari making a protest — had that been the case, I am convinced your opinion would have been that they were within their rights not to give a reason in public, just as Williams were.

[BDunnell]

I don't follow F1 for the same thing you do, and I still do believe in people who show transparency in their acts, not those who play behind the curtains, especially the ones that end up looking like idiots.

For what reason do you think Dylan follows F1, then?

[Malbec]

I don't follow F1 for the same thing you do, and I still do believe in people who show transparency in their acts, not those who play behind the curtains, especially the ones that end up looking like idiots.

So what do I follow the sport for ioan?

If you actually believe things in F1 are transparent then I'm afraid the one looking like an idiot would be you.

The FIA declared the Williams/Toyota/Brawn diffusers legal several months ago. Three teams complained against that decision claiming that they were illegal. On what basis was that complaint made ioan? What aspect of the diffusers exactly were they querying after the FIA had declared them legal?

Oops, did those teams forget to tell you? Did they forget to be transparent?

Want to tell me the exact details of the financial dispute between FOTA and FOM? What sum each party reckons is owed? Ooops, they must have forgotten to be transparent about that bit too.

Getting the picture?

[ioan]

So what do I follow the sport for ioan?

That's your business and your life doesn't interest me at all.


If you actually believe things in F1 are transparent then I'm afraid the one looking like an idiot would be you.

I think you should watch your language.




The FIA declared the Williams/Toyota/Brawn diffusers legal several months ago. Three teams complained against that decision claiming that they were illegal. On what basis was that complaint made ioan? What aspect of the diffusers exactly were they querying after the FIA had declared them legal?

Oops, did those teams forget to tell you? Did they forget to be transparent?


In fact the teams did say why they did protest and why they appealed the veridct.

Just because you have no clue it doesn't mean other doesn't know.

Now that I think about it I believe you watch F1 in order to come here and talk rubbish.

Don't bother answering I will not dignify you with a further answer. This discussion is case closed as far as I'm concerned.

[ioan]

For what reason do you think Dylan follows F1, then?


I don't care why he follows it or if he follows it at all. As far as I'm concerned I won't consider anyone who's argument in a discussion get's to the point of calling others idiots.

[ioan]

Ironico e rammaricato il commento della Ferrari: "E' stato uno 'scherzo'... è una situazione disgustosa".


Link: http://www.sportmediaset.it/formula1/articoli/articolo21944.shtml

So basically they call it a joke and consider it disgusting.

[blito]

That was a smart scrutineer because they wanted to know if there was fuel in the 2nd tank and the team said no, but by saying it will explode they made it obvious that there was fuel in it! Really good move! :)

actually ioan , thats wrong - the fuel in the tank dissipates heat throughout its volume therefore keeping the internal tank temperature below the flash point of the vapours. an "empty" tank is in fact full of vapour and so without the fuel to dissipate the heat you reach flash point much quicker.
so its an empty tank that blows first, as proved on mythbusters :D

[mstillhere]

Thank you for wasting everybody's time, Williams.

[christophulus]

Protesting a car's legality is a "joke" now? "Disgusting?"

Regarding the diffuser issue:


"In motor racing anybody is allowed to protest and I don't have an issue with that. But we've studied the regulations in detail, and we're very confident we have interpreted them correctly."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7965056.stm

I prefer Toyota's slightly fairer/more mature response.

[ioan]

actually ioan , thats wrong - the fuel in the tank dissipates heat throughout its volume therefore keeping the internal tank temperature below the flash point of the vapours. an "empty" tank is in fact full of vapour and so without the fuel to dissipate the heat you reach flash point much quicker.
so its an empty tank that blows first, as proved on mythbusters :D

The main tank was siphoned and was empty, and I suppose that those vapors were didn't stay there if the tanks was not sealed anymore.
Honda was saying there is no more fuel in the tank. If it's true that the scrutineer asked them if the inner tank can be removed by heating than it was a great move cause the team had to acknowledge that in fact there was fuel in the inner tank that could be used as ballast.

However I agree with you that if the tank would have been closed and with fumes inside than it could have exploded.

[ioan]

Protesting a car's legality is a "joke" now? "Disgusting?"


Yeah protesting without any real base or proof, just for the sake of it, is a disgusting joke!

[christophulus]

Yeah protesting without any real base or proof, just for the sake of it, is a disgusting joke!

The problem there is that we don't know what they based their protest on.

If a team thinks another team's design is illegal, they should enquire/protest about it to the stewards (see: diffusers, flexi-wings and a million other examples). But the mere fact that a protest has been lodged should not mean that another team can dismiss it as "disgusting".

I would agree that Williams perhaps should have stated what they were protesting publicly, it would be easier that way, and I can't really understand why they withdrew it before a decision had been made. I don't believe it was a cynical retaliation against Ferrari/Red Bull.

It's yet another event where we don't have all the facts so we shouldn't really jump to conclusions :)

[ioan]

The problem there is that we don't know what they based their protest on.

If a team thinks another team's design is illegal, they should enquire/protest about it to the stewards (see: diffusers, flexi-wings and a million other examples). But the mere fact that a protest has been lodged should not mean that another team can dismiss it as "disgusting".

I agree on this.

But what about having the stewards work on it for a couple of hours and backtracking before they give a verdict?

IMO either they made a mistake or it was a disgusting joke or some kind of stupid mind game. Anyway it did nothing else but losing people's time.

[christophulus]

But what about having the stewards work on it for a couple of hours and backtracking before they give a verdict?

IMO either they made a mistake or it was a disgusting joke or some kind of stupid mind game. Anyway it did nothing else but losing people's time.

Let us hope we get an answer in the morning (well, Australian morning, so sometime this evening I suppose).

[BDunnell]

I don't care why he follows it or if he follows it at all. As far as I'm concerned I won't consider anyone who's argument in a discussion get's to the point of calling others idiots.

ioan, you have gone down seriously in my estimation as a result of your comments here. I think you are being genuinely out of order.

[Sonic]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.

[BDunnell]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.

I agree.

[christophulus]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.

Only 12 hours to go (adjusting for the clocks going forwards) :up:

[dj_bytedisaster]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.

give that man a :beer:
This whole protesting malarkey is wearing thin - settle it on the track tomorrow and spare us the politics twaddle.

[V12]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.

:up: :up: :up:

[jjanicke]

Seems like a perfectly normal protest. What's all the fuse about?

Unlike Ferrari, RBR and Renault, Williams knew when to retract their protest. Perhaps the others can learn from this.

[Sonic]

give that man a :beer:
This whole protesting malarkey is wearing thin - settle it on the track tomorrow and spare us the politics twaddle.

I shall take that :beer: and buy you all a round - virtually of course! :D

[ioan]

ioan, you have gone down seriously in my estimation as a result of your comments here. I think you are being genuinely out of order.

Couldn't care any less.

[F1boat]

Chivalric decision, I hope that Red Bull and Ferrari will also act like this about the diffuser row, but I doubt it.

[jjanicke]

Chivalric decision, I hope that Red Bull and Ferrari will also act like this about the diffuser row, but I doubt it.

Agreed!

[Dave B]

YAWN. Bored now. Lets go racing. Sod all this balls.
That should be in the signature of each and every member on here :up:

[Malbec]

That's your business and your life doesn't interest me at all.

Good, then don't bring the subject of why I watch the sport for into the topic then.


I think you should watch your language.

As above, if you don't like my language, ie words that you used in your initial post, don't bring them into the topic yourself. Learn to debate by supporting your arguments, not making unsupportable comments as you've done in the past.

[BDunnell]

Good, then don't bring the subject of why I watch the sport for into the topic then.

I don't know about you, but I would be genuinely fascinated to find out what ioan's view is of the (apparently highly disturbing and wrong, in his view) reason you watch F1!

[Malbec]

I don't know about you, but I would be genuinely fascinated to find out what ioan's view is of the (apparently highly disturbing and wrong, in his view) reason you watch F1!

I'm not sure I want to know what his reasoning is I'm afraid.....

[Rollo]

Here we go, same old, same old. Let's see how many protests we can rack up until sunset.

The only 4 cars that will be legal by tomorrow afternoon will be the Force Indias and the McLarens. However, people around here will still accuse McLaren of somehow cheating and the two Force Indias will breakdown somewhere so that means that the only driver left in the GP will be...

The Stig driving a 1983 Vauxhall Nova.

[BDunnell]

The only 4 cars that will be legal by tomorrow afternoon will be the Force Indias and the McLarens. However, people around here will still accuse McLaren of somehow cheating

I think this is a new way of creating a level playing field in F1 — having every car running under protest.

[LiamM]

I think this is a new way of creating a level playing field in F1 — having every car running under protest.

Or how about, a governing body to produce some regulations which all the clever designers in the teams can read and formulate their own ideas from, then build the best racing car they can. However, we remove all the prams and all the toys from the teams, so they can't have a hissy, cos 3 teams who used to be slow thought about it more and came up with a cleverer car.

End of story

[Valve Bounce]

Something like "I'll tell mum that you did...." than when confronted with mum they just give up!?

It's not only unprofessional it's idiotic.



I have to agree with ioan here - either you have a legitimate protest or you don't. Williams were just playing silly buggers.

[Valve Bounce]

Chivalric decision, I hope that Red Bull and Ferrari will also act like this about the diffuser row, but I doubt it.

No! this is different. And the outcome of the appeal is very important to settle, once and for all for everyone, the legality of the rebel diffuser. I am convinced that the big boys will have rebel diffusers ready to stick on by the time the appeal is heard, if not before. In fact, I just wonder if McLaren will show up with a rebel diffuser in Malaysia. Now that would set the cat among the pigeons.

[ioan]

The appeal date for the diffuser saga is 14 April.
Until than I think that none of the teams who protested it will use a double decker diffuser, otherwise they lose their points in case they win the appeal.

[Somebody]

The appeal date for the diffuser saga is 14 April.
Until than I think that none of the teams who protested it will use a double decker diffuser, otherwise they lose their points in case they win the appeal.

It would be virtually impossible for a team to design, build and crash-test (remember, the "upper deck" is a shaped piece of the rear crash-test structure - alter that, and they need to resubmit it for safety testing) before that point ANYWAY. Especially with it falling in the middle of four fly-away races in five weeks.

[This goes double for RBR/STR, whose rear suspension is very different to the other cars and will - sorry, "would" - require a larger redesign to accommodate such a diffuser...]

[jjanicke]

I concur with Somebody. This isn't a simple bolt on task. There's a lot going on there that could require significant forethought to design in the first place. It'll be until Europe until the protesters have a solution, and that's according to Flavio, not my opinion.

Mclaren's silence might mean that have something in the works, as the FIA did dream the design legal several months ago. A hedging man would have started down that path a while ago.

[Somebody]

Mclaren's silence might mean that have something in the works, as the FIA did dream the design legal several months ago. A hedging man would have started down that path a while ago.

A smart team would have at least investigated the possibilities as soon as the first double-deck diffuser designs appeared in testing, and started work in earnest as soon as the FIA said that, in principle, it was legal.

As it is, even the protesters need to start work NOW - if they wait until the appeal hearing and that sides with Williams & co, then they lose another race or two to the D4 teams while they take even longer to catch up. [And, of course, R&D time on D4s is time lost to, well, anything else]

[F1boat]

The appeal date for the diffuser saga is 14 April.
Until than I think that none of the teams who protested it will use a double decker diffuser, otherwise they lose their points in case they win the appeal.

It is more likely that points will be kept and only the diffuser will be banned IMO. F1 will have a LOT of bad publicity if it starts the season in such a way.

[F1boat]

Mclaren's silence might mean that have something in the works, as the FIA did dream the design legal several months ago. A hedging man would have started down that path a while ago.

Maybe Mercedes-Benz prefers to win with a privateer team, instead to see Ferrari or Renault winning...

[jjanicke]

Maybe Mercedes-Benz prefers to win with a privateer team, instead to see Ferrari or Renault winning...

as of right now they have a good strategy then. ;)

[ioan]

Back to Williams half arsed protest now.

These Muppets filled a protest, got everyone revved up on it, than suddenly withdrew it "in the interest of the sport" (yeah sure, how altruistic from someone like Frank Williams and Patrick Head) and now they are expecting that the FIA will still go ahead and do something about Red Bull and Ferrari, even though they acknowledged that the area is open to different interpretations!


"We are looking at the potential implications of it, although as we said, we believe it was in the interests of the sport to withdraw the protest," said Michael. "We will leave it now for the FIA and the TWG [Technical Working Group] to decide what to do. The FIA will deal with it."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74033

A bunch of Muppets, I tell ya!

[christophulus]

Back to Williams half arsed protest now.

These Muppets filled a protest, got everyone revved up on it, than suddenly withdrew it "in the interest of the sport" (yeah sure, how altruistic from someone like Frank Williams and Patrick Head) and now they are expecting that the FIA will still go ahead and do something about Red Bull and Ferrari, even though they acknowledged that the area is open to different interpretations!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74033

A bunch of Muppets, I tell ya!

I reckon (biased or not) that they're going about this the right way by leaving it til after the race. This gives the FIA chance to clarify the legality of the wings without anyone racing under appeal.

IF the winglets are illegal the FIA need to outlaw them and let the teams modify the cars asap. IF they're legal then that's one point of contention clarified. I don't think Ferrari/RB would lose the results today even IF they were illegal (although it wouldn't make any difference if they did :) ), but it's something that needs sorting.