Is this Bunsen's year?

[Valve Bounce]

Following sensational performances during testing, will this be Bunsen's year? If he does well, it will permanently shut up those disparaging guys, like me, once and for all. He was touted by all the former English racing greats as the next British F1 champion when he won his first, and only F1 race. Unfortunately, he has been somewhat of a disappointment to the Knock-ons and Wedges et al since, much to the merriment of those who don't think he will amount to anything.

This is his big chance. He has to beat Rubens, the ex team mate and sometime conqueror of the infamous SchM, greatest driver ever to lay hands on a steering wheel. Then, of course, he also has to qualify on the front row, and beat the likes of Kimi, Massa, Lewis, Fonzo, Vettel, and that Polish guy (I keep forgetting his name). If he can do all that, and win the WDC, then he will prove, once and for all, that he is the greatest driver on the track today.

If he doesn't, then we can always blame the car, can't we!! :rolleyes:

[Ari]

I don't think the Burner has it in him personally. Not convinced that if he put himself in that position he wouldn't crumble under the pressure. Winning a few GP's is one thing.... puting it together to win a championship is another.

Look at Lewis. He should have won 07... only thing that stopped him was the fact he was a rookie and lacked experienced. Kimi took it off him. In 08, after a little experience, Lewis took it.

It's one thing to be an experienced F1 driver and another to be experienced in collecting points and going for a championship.

All that said, I still don't think that he has the car to do it.

[UltimateDanGTR]

Bunsen Burner could do well, but I dont reckon he'll win it.

as much as I think that, I hope Im wrong.......

[ShiftingGears]

Nope.

[F1boat]

I think that even of Brawn GP is the best car in Oz, they will be unable to keep this form during the whole season, so I don't think that Jenson will be able to win the World Championship. I'd love to see him win some races, but we have to see whether the Brawn GP is able to do that. However, if the pace is for real and they miraculously manage to keep dominant form, I think that he can beat Rubens and win the WDC. IMO he is a very decent driver and I think, Valve, that you only dislike him because of your obsession with Anthony Davidson, which on the other hand has managed to make me hate the guy, as I am a Button's fan, although he is not my favorite driver :)

[emporer_k]

He's a good driver but i've never seen him as being future champion material.

[Valve Bounce]

IMO he is a very decent driver and I think, Valve, that you only dislike him because of your obsession with Anthony Davidson, which on the other hand has managed to make me hate the guy, as I am a Button's fan, although he is not my favorite driver :)

Not entirely correct. My dislike for bunsen stemmed from his contractual shenanigans with Honda and Williams. In my view, he is not an honorable man. Simple as that.

[jens]

He was touted by all the former English racing greats as the next British F1 champion when he won his first, and only F1 race.


I remember Button being declared as a future champion already back in 2000, so that win changed nothing in general expectations. :p :

Now this thread reminds me 2007, when that year was talked up as "Jenson's-year" during preseason until the uncompetitiveness of the car was unveiled in an astonishing fashion... This time, it looks like, the car could have some serious pace, but before expecting anyone to challenge for the title I'd wait for the opening race...

But generally Button can be very consistent, so in a season like 2008, when no top contenders had a smooth year, a consistent driver could well stay among the leaders in a highly competitive car.

[Robinho]

don't be silly, this is Coulthard's year...isn't it? ;)

[F1boat]

Not entirely correct. My dislike for bunsen stemmed from his contractual shenanigans with Honda and Williams. In my view, he is not an honorable man. Simple as that.

But on the other hand this year he took a salary cut and was loyal. I wouldn't be so harsh on people like you. Besides, this is F1, not a samurai castle.

[markabilly]

But on the other hand this year he took a salary cut and was loyal. I wouldn't be so harsh on people like you. Besides, this is F1, not a samurai castle.

You forgot:

and he did it when he had so many other choices............

The problem with Rubens B was why dump him and keep the other driver whose performance was inferior.......

[F1boat]

But in 2007 Button was better :)

[MrJan]

It's always Jenson's year, he just needs the car ;) :p :

One thing I will say Valve is that I find it interesting that you don't like him because of the Williams thing, I mean Frank Williams is hardly a pillar of society himself.

I do actually believe that he is a quick driver, certainly enough to rival your man Webber (another perrenial underacheiver). WDC material? Probably not against the current crop but I'd have expected him to out perform DC in a similarly strong position.

[Valve Bounce]

But on the other hand this year he took a salary cut and was loyal. I wouldn't be so harsh on people like you. Besides, this is F1, not a samurai castle.

I really wouldn't be concerned if you were harsh on me. However, I never reneged on a contract.

The point here, which many seem to have forgotten, is that it was Frank Williams who gave bunsen his big chance in F1. I guess being stuck with that dog of a Honda since his stupidity couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Finally, I know nothing about samurai castles. Is that bunsen's yacht?

[woody2goody]

There's nothing wrong with Jenson's skill, motivation, honour or anything else.

I think it will be close between him and Rubens within Brawn GP, but they will be there or thereabouts and probably win 3 races between the two of them.

If it came down to it I have no doubt Button will be able to cope under pressure. It's been very rare in his career for him to do something stupid on the track.

I for one hopes he beats Lewis Hamilton. Now I like Lewis don't get me wrong, but I wonder if people will jump on the ButtonWagon if he beats Hamilton. After all they were so quick to virtually discard Jenson after 2007 (and 08).

That's one thing that disgusts me about the British media. Just like David Coulthard before him, JB was almost ignored last year by the Hamilton-hungry journalists. If that stops, and the press accept that Jenson may be as good as Lewis, then I'll be a happy man.

[shazbot]

Surely you guys don't think that Brawn GP's testing pace was anything but a PR exercise?

[Valve Bounce]

There's nothing wrong with Jenson's skill, motivation, honour or anything else.

......

That's one thing that disgusts me about the British media. Just like David Coulthard before him, JB was almost ignored last year by the Hamilton-hungry journalists. If that stops, and the press accept that Jenson may be as good as Lewis, then I'll be a happy man.

Did you honestly think the press would give bunsen any attention when he was getting beaten by Honda's B team at the tail end of the field while this young Brit Lewis was winning races? let's face the facts: bunsen wouldn't even qualify as a has been because he never was.

I'm hoping that the Brawnsen will give him the chance to prove that he can be a great driver. Because if the car is that good, and he doesn't win, Rubens will. And if he wins, many Poms will be delighted and I will eat crow (figuratively, of course).

I don't hate the guy - I don't even know him. Let's see if he can do well in a good car, OK!!

[F1boat]

The point here, which many seem to have forgotten, is that it was Frank Williams who gave bunsen his big chance in F1.

And quickly replaced him with Montoya. Please - do not praise Frank's driver policy...

[Storm]

...but I wonder if people will jump on the ButtonWagon if he beats Hamilton.



You mean the same people who actually were on the ButtonWagon before jumping onto the HamiltonWagon as soon as they saw that Button wasn't very good (plus had a crap car since 07) and Hamilton was good (plus had a very good car on debut)

[MrJan]

Surely you guys don't think that Brawn GP's testing pace was anything but a PR exercise?

:up: Honda have always been quick pre-season and it never translates. And I don't expect the McLaren to be slow either, Melbourne is where we see how well people are doing, not testing before it all kicks off.

[PolePosition_1]

He could be a suprise.

Did many people think in 1996 that in 2 years time Mika Hakkinen would be winning championships? I know I didn't.

I think given the right car, he can be world champion, but it would need to be a superior car. He's no Alonso, who beat Schuamcher in an inferior car, or Schumacher who nearly beat Villenueve in inferior car etc.

[Robinho]

Surely you guys don't think that Brawn GP's testing pace was anything but a PR exercise?


no, actually i think it was probably genuine, maybe they won't be far ahead, but i think they'll be pretty close to the fonrt for the first few races

[stevie_gerrard]

Have i travelled back 4 years in time?? :p :

Be delighted if Jenson was to stir things up a bit, and win a couple of races, but i don't want to jump the gun and expect this, cause we are bound for disappointment as ever. Let's hope though that he can rediscover some form, and give his loyal fans something to cheer about finally!

[555-04Q2]

Following sensational performances during testing, will this be Bunsen's year? If he does well, it will permanently shut up those disparaging guys, like me, once and for all. He was touted by all the former English racing greats as the next British F1 champion when he won his first, and only F1 race. Unfortunately, he has been somewhat of a disappointment to the Knock-ons and Wedges et al since, much to the merriment of those who don't think he will amount to anything.

This is his big chance. He has to beat Rubens, the ex team mate and sometime conqueror of the infamous SchM, greatest driver ever to lay hands on a steering wheel. Then, of course, he also has to qualify on the front row, and beat the likes of Kimi, Massa, Lewis, Fonzo, Vettel, and that Polish guy (I keep forgetting his name). If he can do all that, and win the WDC, then he will prove, once and for all, that he is the greatest driver on the track today.

If he doesn't, then we can always blame the car, can't we!! :rolleyes:

:laugh: Button could'nt win a WDC even if it was given to him on a silver platter :laugh:

[Mark]

No you're all wrong. Rubens will be champ this year :s mokin:

No you're all wrong. Rubens will be champ this year :s mokin:

Actually I wouldn't mind even tho' I'm a Button fan. I'm just hoping that they both have competitive cars, and consistently good results each round.
And to the forum member who thinks that Button can't take pressure, IMO he has a very cool head on the track.
Off track, I don't remember him being anything but polite and cool all those times he has been asked to comment just after parking the Honda yet again, not easy even when you are paid squillions and it's all part of the package. Of course I am biased.

[Valve Bounce]

And to the forum member who thinks that Button can't take pressure, IMO he has a very cool head on the track.
.

Yeah! like the time he decided to kiss the wall when SchM was behind him.

[Roamy]

If they let him keep that cheater difuser then he will win the championship

[F1boat]

Yeah! like the time he decided to kiss the wall when SchM was behind him.

Valve, even Fernando Alonso and Raikkonen, not to mention Lewis and Massa, have made mistakes under pressure.

[Valve Bounce]

Valve, even Fernando Alonso and Raikkonen, not to mention Lewis and Massa, have made mistakes under pressure.

So!! what's your point? I was responding to chac47's post.

[555-04Q2]

Interestingly, our local newspaper reported Massa saying he sees Honda as their main competitor for 2009.

[ArrowsFA1]

And Rubens sounds (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73882) confident:

"...up until now I've never had a good car to go for it: the Honda from the last two years was almost an insult. Now I have a truly competitive car, in a small yet high-quality team. We've spent four months at home to make developments, we knew where to change and what to fix. Now it's the right time to take it to the track and win. I can do it."

[ozrevhead]

Did many people think in 1996 that in 2 years time Mika Hakkinen would be winning championships? I know I didn't.
after Adelaide in 95 I was stoked to him alive and walking let alone win a championship... :p :

back on topic and no I dont - he can be a race winner not a championship one

Yeah! like the time he decided to kiss the wall when SchM was behind him.

Year, round, lap number? Must have been very inconsequential cos i've forgotten. :)

[Valve Bounce]

Year, round, lap number? Must have been very inconsequential cos i've forgotten. :)

You have MDD also? :(

[Garry Walker]

Button is not a racer, I remember Kimi once saying that Button was the easiest guy to overtake.
If Brawn GP has the best car, I hope and think that it will rather be Barrichello winning, than button.

[V12]

Year, round, lap number? Must have been very inconsequential cos i've forgotten. :)

Was that during the safety car at Monza in 2000? In his first season, nine years ago...

[Knock-on]

Button is not a racer, I remember Kimi once saying that Button was the easiest guy to overtake.
If Brawn GP has the best car, I hope and think that it will rather be Barrichello winning, than button.

Not a chance.

When the car was OK, he wrung it's neck to get to 3rd in the championship.

If it's comparable with the top teams, I expect to see something exceptional this year.

[ioan]

Not a chance.

When the car was OK, he wrung it's neck to get to 3rd in the championship.

If it's comparable with the top teams, I expect to see something exceptional this year.

:eek: what a feat, getting 3rd place in the 2nd best car! :D :rotflmao:

[ioan]

Was that during the safety car at Monza in 2000? In his first season, nine years ago...

I think it was in Montreal, not sure about the year though! 2003 or 2004?

[Garry Walker]

Not a chance.

When the car was OK, he wrung it's neck to get to 3rd in the championship.

If it's comparable with the top teams, I expect to see something exceptional this year.

In 2004 he had the 2nd best car by a clear margin over others, and I am pretty sure if you had put Button in the F2004 and Schumacher in the BAR, Schumi would have won a few races, which is something Button did not do.
Button had a great car that year and a nobody as a teammate.
I was not impressed at all by his performances in 2004.

[jens]

I think VB has in mind the situation from the 2005 Canadian Grand Prix, when MS was closing on Button, who was running 3rd at that time before hitting the Champions Wall.

With everyone so concentrated on the Brawn GP drivers before the beginning of the season, I already feel sorry to drivers like Trulli or Heidfeld, who get almost no attention before their possible breakthrough season.

[Garry Walker]

I think it was in Montreal, not sure about the year though! 2003 or 2004?

When Button crashed the moment MS came behind him? That was 2005.
Another good example was Imola the same year when Alonso kept MS behind for a whole stint, but Button could not do it even for 2 laps.

[wedge]

Button is not a racer, I remember Kimi once saying that Button was the easiest guy to overtake.
If Brawn GP has the best car, I hope and think that it will rather be Barrichello winning, than button.

He's had his moments. Great battle with Schumi and Alonso at Hockenheim in 05 and 04.

Would make a good #2, but WDC material? Perhaps not but could be elevated to raise his game in the same way Hill and Massa did over a WDC battle.

[Knock-on]

When Button crashed the moment MS came behind him? That was 2005.
Another good example was Imola the same year when Alonso kept MS behind for a whole stint, but Button could not do it even for 2 laps.

Alonso drove a fantastic last few laps to keep Schumacher behind in that race. I'll not take anything away from that.

However, you cannot start claiming that the BAR was clearly the 2nd best car or Schumy would have won a few races. The Ferrari was the only car head and shoulders and Button secured the best place behind them he could.

[Garry Walker]

Alonso drove a fantastic last few laps to keep Schumacher behind in that race. I'll not take anything away from that.
He simply did his job and kept his cool. Button on the other hand cracked at once.




However, you cannot start claiming that the BAR was clearly the 2nd best car or Schumy would have won a few races. The Ferrari was the only car head and shoulders and Button secured the best place behind them he could.
Whilst Ferrari was clearly the best car, just as clearly was BAR the 2nd best car by far.

McLaren for half a season was nowhere, Williams made a mess with their nose of the car and for most of the season was nowhere near BARs pace and Renault was able to challenge BAR at only a few races and I am sure you agree that Alonso is a better driver than Button and always has been.

As for Schumacher winning races in BAR, I am quite sure he would have taken the win at Monaco and possibly at some other races too, but of course, there is no proof for that.

[jens]

Would make a good #2, but WDC material? Perhaps not but could be elevated to raise his game in the same way Hill and Massa did over a WDC battle.

I really don't like the term "WDC-material" that is used so often. Where goes the dividing line, who is and who isn't? And if someone isn't, does that means it's impossible for him to win the title? A championship challenge largely depends on circumstances. I guess nobody ever thought Irvine was a so-called champion-material, yet lost the title only by 2 points.

[ioan]

When Button crashed the moment MS came behind him? That was 2005.

You probably right, it must have been 2005 otherwise I don't see why would MS have been behind a nobody.


Another good example was Imola the same year when Alonso kept MS behind for a whole stint, but Button could not do it even for 2 laps.

That was priceless, it was like if JB was sitting in the railway station watching the express go by! :D

[ioan]

I really don't like the term "WDC-material" that is used so often. Where goes the dividing line, who is and who isn't? And if someone isn't, does that means it's impossible for him to win the title? A championship challenge largely depends on circumstances. I guess nobody ever thought Irvine was a so-called champion-material, yet lost the title only by 2 points.

Wrong guess, I think Irvine was good enough to be WDC material, and some of his drives in the Jag were impressive. Nothing like that from JB.

[AndyL]

In 2004 he had the 2nd best car by a clear margin over others, and I am pretty sure if you had put Button in the F2004 and Schumacher in the BAR, Schumi would have won a few races, which is something Button did not do.

How do you know the car was so great? I suspect some circular logic going on here: Button is rubbish because he couldn't win in that amazing car / the car must have been amazing because it came 3rd in the WDC with that loser Button at the wheel.

[BDunnell]

Wrong guess, I think Irvine was good enough to be WDC material, and some of his drives in the Jag were impressive. Nothing like that from JB.

By contrast, I don't think Irvine was ever 'WDC material' (like jens, I dislike the phrase somewhat) in circumstances other than those in which he found himself in '99, although he did rise to that challenge really well, and I don't recall him ever distinguishing himself particularly in the Jaguar.

[BDunnell]

How do you know the car was so great? I suspect some circular logic going on here: Button is rubbish because he couldn't win in that amazing car / the car must have been amazing because it came 3rd in the WDC with that loser Button at the wheel.

I agree. There is little objective judgment appearing from some quarters. I am also no fan of the pointlessly repetitive criticism of drivers that goes on here. Yes, some disappoint and this is worth discussing, but none deserve the opprobrium that they sometimes receive from certain quarters, and almost always without justification. It certainly doesn't lead me to respect the opinions of those making the criticism.

[ioan]

By contrast, I don't think Irvine was ever 'WDC material' (like jens, I dislike the phrase somewhat) in circumstances other than those in which he found himself in '99, although he did rise to that challenge really well, and I don't recall him ever distinguishing himself particularly in the Jaguar.

He fought for the title in '99 and that does make him worthy of being considered WDC-material.

Do you thing Sir Stirling Moss was WDC-material, even if he never won the title?

As for the Jag days you'll have to look who did put that car up on the grid and on the podium.

[ioan]

By contrast, I don't think Irvine was ever 'WDC material' (like jens, I dislike the phrase somewhat) in circumstances other than those in which he found himself in '99, although he did rise to that challenge really well, and I don't recall him ever distinguishing himself particularly in the Jaguar.

He fought for the title in '99 and that does make him worthy of being considered WDC-material.

Do you thing Sir Stirling Moss was WDC-material, even if he never won the title?

As for the Jag days you'll have to look who did put that car up on the grid and on the podium.
Just because he didn't impress you doesn't mean he didn't get outstanding results. It's just like I never was impressed by J.Villeneuve but still he got the title.

[BDunnell]

He fought for the title in '99 and that does make him worthy of being considered WDC-material.

I think you have slightly (deliberately?) missed the point of what I said, namely that without the circumstances that arose with Schumacher's injury in 1999, Irvine would not have been a title contender in my opinion. Had he ever looked like one before? Not really. But, as I said, he did a great job in '99 under unusual circumstances. I would have loved him to have won the title that year, if perhaps not as much as I'd have liked to have seen a Frentzen victory.



Do you thing Sir Stirling Moss was WDC-material, even if he never won the title?

I'm not sure what the point of that question is. Clearly, he was. I and anybody of a right mind would contend that Moss was a driver of a higher calibre in comparison with his peers than Irvine was and Button is.

[wedge]

Sorry, my bad. I guess what I mean by WDC material is that there drivers like Hill and Massa who had to dig deep, elevate to another level whereas the Sennas and Schumis had the natural talent, skill and brain power - the greats.

IMHO there are the greats who were the whole package and could win multiple WDC and the not-so greats who probably were missing at least an ingredient.


He fought for the title in '99 and that does make him worthy of being considered WDC-material.

Do you thing Sir Stirling Moss was WDC-material, even if he never won the title?

As for the Jag days you'll have to look who did put that car up on the grid and on the podium.
Just because he didn't impress you doesn't mean he didn't get outstanding results. It's just like I never was impressed by J.Villeneuve but still he got the title.

Irvine was gifted wins in Hockenheim and Sepang. Even with #1 status he was still blitzed by Schumi.

The only good race I remember from Jag was the podium at Monaco.

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry, my bad. I guess what I mean by WDC material is that there drivers like Hill and Massa who had to dig deep, elevate to another level whereas the Sennas and Schumis had the natural talent, skill and brain power - the greats.

IMHO there are the greats who were the whole package and could win multiple WDC and the not-so greats who probably were missing at least an ingredient.


I have to agree totally with this. Moss was great, and could make a lessor car a winner - a true measure of a great driver.

Going back to bunsen, I just wonder how well he would do in a really competitive car. The cars were out this morning testing, and I just learned that ant is their test driver. Would/could that help with setting up the car and help the Brawnsen drivers onto the podium? Interesting point. but I am biased, aren't I??

[F1boat]

but I am biased, aren't I??

YES!

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not sure what the point of that question is. Clearly, he was. I and anybody of a right mind would contend that Moss was a driver of a higher calibre in comparison with his peers than Irvine was and Button is.

Yep. He was, in my mind, the best driver on the grid after Fangio's retirement.

[Knock-on]

It doesn't matter what Button does. Some people will appreciate him as a driver and some people will make every excuse against logic to dismiss his achievements.

All we know is that Rubins is a very strong team mate who would have pushed Schumy a lot harder if allowed so if he beats Jenson over the season, we have to accept that he is the better driver and the hype over Jenson is misplaced.

However, that runs both ways but some will never accept it if it happens.

Here you go boys. I've shrink-wrapped a few already.

Jenson won because.... Rubins is too old and past it
Jenson won because.... Ross Brawn has always hated Rubins so sabotaged his car
Jenson won because.... The Anglo-mafia blew harder down the main straight when Jenson went down
Jenson won because.... He had better tyres
Jenson won because.... RUBINS IS OBVIOUSLY A BETTER DRIVER, HE JUST HAS TO BE OTHERWISE i WILL HAVE TO ADMIT KNOCKIE WAS RIGHT!!!

Please feel free to add your own as we go through the season :D

[Valve Bounce]

Wouldn't it be funny if bunsen won and Lewis came nowhere. :p :

[Knock-on]

Wouldn't it be funny if bunsen won and Lewis came nowhere. :p :

I'm thinking JB has a good chance of a podium in this first race on current form. However, it's a brand new car with minimal shakedown testing so we will see.

My only hope for Lewis is that they are doing heavy fuel simulations and can get rid of a second in qualifying.

At the moment, I will be happy if they make Q2.

[Roamy]

button needs to out qual and out race RB this weekend.

rounds 1 and 2 go to RB

[ioan]

Irvine was gifted wins in Hockenheim and Sepang. Even with #1 status he was still blitzed by Schumi.

If being WDC material means being equal to MS than lots of drivers who won the title should be discarded.



The only good race I remember from Jag was the podium at Monaco.

Interesting enough he got on the podium with the Jag in Monza too one year later.

[ioan]

Here you go boys. I've shrink-wrapped a few already.

Jenson won because.... Rubins is too old and past it
Jenson won because.... Ross Brawn has always hated Rubins so sabotaged his car
Jenson won because.... The Anglo-mafia blew harder down the main straight when Jenson went down
Jenson won because.... He had better tyres
Jenson won because.... RUBINS IS OBVIOUSLY A BETTER DRIVER, HE JUST HAS TO BE OTHERWISE i WILL HAVE TO ADMIT KNOCKIE WAS RIGHT!!!

Please feel free to add your own as we go through the season :D

Jenson won because.... all other car retired in front of him! No wait, that was Hungary 2005! :p :

[BDunnell]

ioan, time to give it a rest again. We know what your opinion is. Repeating it over and over again in various 'humorous' ways does nothing to further your arguments.

[ioan]

ioan, time to give it a rest again. We know what your opinion is. Repeating it over and over again in various 'humorous' ways does nothing to further your arguments.

FGS get yourself a sense of humor! I even added a smilie to that post.

[BDunnell]

FGS get yourself a sense of humor! I even added a smilie to that post.

I must have had difficulty telling it apart from any of your serious comments on the subject.

[UltimateDanGTR]

judging by Practice, Rubens is on it and is currently faster than Jensen. I think we've underestimated Rubens here. However, practice times do not always speak for what happens in the race, I mean I remember one race last year when Force India were 5th or 6th fastest on the friday (I think). Obviously that had nothing to do with the race.

So practice cant tell us everything.

God, the tensions killing me!

[Dave B]

Jenson won because.... all other car retired in front of him! No wait, that was Hungary 2005! :p :
Do you mean 2006? The one where Jenson won from 14th on the grid because he kept it on the track in difficult conditions; not crashing like, oooooh, say Kimi and Schuey? :p

[woody2goody]

By contrast, I don't think Irvine was ever 'WDC material' (like jens, I dislike the phrase somewhat) in circumstances other than those in which he found himself in '99, although he did rise to that challenge really well, and I don't recall him ever distinguishing himself particularly in the Jaguar.

Only reason Ioan is saying that is because Eddie drove for Ferrari.

He was great in 1999 but Rubens did a much better job than him at Ferrari.

As for 2004, I'm not convinced the BAR was the second best car all the way through. The Renault was pretty strong throughout the year as both Jarno and Fernando showed.

As I say, Sato isn't a bad driver at all, and yet Button outscored him roughly 140-36 in two seasons.

And as for a Rubens championship: That would be one of the best stories in F1 history. Plus no doubt he would come back next year and break the 300 GP mark!

[UltimateDanGTR]

I rubens won the WDC I would eat my own shoes in ecstacy for him, It would be truly phenomenal. But I also would love to see Rosberg win it (I dont know why I've just taken to him, no doubt great driver) or Heidfeld. He deserves it as well, although I cant see it happening this year for BMW and him.

I bet if Rubens was to win it though, there would be a film made about him one day, it would be a truly great story, 16 years and finally......

[ioan]

Do you mean 2006? The one where Jenson won from 14th on the grid because he kept it on the track in difficult conditions; not crashing like, oooooh, say Kimi and Schuey? :p

Yeah, that one. Did MS crash in that race?

[ioan]

I must have had difficulty telling it apart from any of your serious comments on the subject.

I think you're right, you better work on this aspect in order to avoid such misunderstandings in the future. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

ioan, time to give it a rest again. We know what your opinion is. Repeating it over and over again in various 'humorous' ways does nothing to further your arguments.

I don't know, I loved ioan's retort. :p :

Anyway, bunsen was very smooth from the start of P1, and there really is a good chance that he will get on the podium.

[Tazio]

It doesn't matter what Button does. Some people will appreciate him as a driver and some people will make every excuse against logic to dismiss his achievements.

All we know is that Rubins is a very strong team mate who would have pushed Schumy a lot harder if allowed so if he beats Jenson over the season, we have to accept that he is the better driver and the hype over Jenson is misplaced.

However, that runs both ways but some will never accept it if it happens.

Here you go boys. I've shrink-wrapped a few already.

Jenson won because.... Rubins is too old and past it
Jenson won because.... Ross Brawn has always hated Rubins so sabotaged his car
Jenson won because.... The Anglo-mafia blew harder down the main straight when Jenson went down
Jenson won because.... He had better tyres
Jenson won because.... RUBINS IS OBVIOUSLY A BETTER DRIVER, HE JUST HAS TO BE OTHERWISE i WILL HAVE TO ADMIT KNOCKIE WAS RIGHT!!!

Please feel free to add your own as we go through the season :D
Our wager not withstanding I hope you aren't lumping me into that group!
(Your use of one of my "catch-phrases suggest to me you might be)
I've stated that JB has gotten a lot more disrespect from some members than his record warrants.
I hope he has a good year! I just hope, and believe if they stay at the pointy end the whole season
Rubens is the man! :)

[Valve Bounce]

Record!! what record??

[Tazio]

Record!! what record??

His record of being a solid talented driver!
I'm not a Brit! I never had any, let alone unrealistic expectations for him.
He has been the subject of alot of antagonism which maybe his proponents deserve, but not him. OK?

[Valve Bounce]

His record of being a solid talented driver!
I'm not a Brit! I never had any, let alone unrealistic expectations for him.
He has been the subject of alot of antagonism which maybe his proponents deserve, but not him. OK?

OK!! OK!! so he has great talent and his car has let him down in the past.
And he will prove it by qualifying on pole today and win tomorrow.
There, I've said it. :(

[Tazio]

OK!! OK!! so he has great talent and his car has let him down in the past.
And he will prove it by qualifying on pole today and win tomorrow.
There, I've said it. :( I'm not going that far, and I hope it's Rubens that does the majority of the winning for Brawn! ;)
Valve you have had philosophical issues with Butt' on issues of character!
I don't like the way some members have beaten down drivers because of the expectations members on this forum put on them.
Why can't we all just get along?
At least until someone commits a monumental choke this season!
Then we can trash the Sh!+ out of them :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I'm not going that far, and I hope it's Rubens that does the majority of the winning for Brawn! ;)
Valve you have had philosophical issues with Butt' on issues of character!
I don't like the way some members have beaten down drivers because of the expectations members on this forum put on them.
Why can't we all just get along?
At least until someone commits a monumental choke this season!
Then we can trash the Sh!+ out of them :p :

I'll be perfectly fair on this one. Bunsen will be pitted against 5 other diffuser rebels today and tomorrow. If he can beat them all without any of them breaking down or getting into trouble, then I will admit to his absolute greatness. If he wins, even if some of them come to grief, I will still admit to him being bloody great.

And I will have that on my sig!!

[Roamy]

ooohhh Button get one back today

2 to 1 favor of Rb

[Valve Bounce]

My sig says I am sorry :(

[jens]

I'm just wondering, how long does it take to me to get used to the new pecking order. Still unusual to see Button and Barrichello fighting it out at the front. :p :

[ozrevhead]

I'll be perfectly fair on this one. Bunsen will be pitted against 5 other diffuser rebels today and tomorrow. If he can beat them all without any of them breaking down or getting into trouble, then I will admit to his absolute greatness. If he wins, even if some of them come to grief, I will still admit to him being bloody great.

And I will have that on my sig!!
dont do it Valve you are selling your soul to the devil!! :p :

I dont like Jenson but if he wins well hes the best driver of the day
I'd rather Rubens win the races than Jenson it has to be said

[F1boat]

And I prefer Jenson! Go Jenson!

[Valve Bounce]

...........I remember a time when ant and Sato, in their budget second hand Hondas did better in quals than both Lewis Hamilton and Kovi today in their official works Mercedes McLaren cars. :(
It makes me very sad inside. :(

[jens]

Well, at the moment people are overjoyed, but if Brawn GP continues to dominate, the excitement of all the newness will settle down and people will start complaining about domination...

Besides this, I expect that sooner or later F1 fans will start criticizing that driver skills count for nothing in F1 and how come average drivers can be winning in a dominant car...

[F1boat]

Well, at the moment people are overjoyed, but if Brawn GP continues to dominate, the excitement of all the newness will settle down and people will start complaining about domination...

Besides this, I expect that sooner or later F1 fans will start criticizing that driver skills count for nothing in F1 and how come average drivers can be winning in a dominant car...

I think that it is unlikely that Brawn will dominate. IMO the season will be cracking.

[ozrevhead]

...........I remember a time when ant and Sato, in their budget second hand Hondas did better in quals than both Lewis Hamilton and Kovi today in their official works Mercedes McLaren cars. :(
It makes me very sad inside. :(
i feel your pain Valve :(

[V12]

I'd love to see Jenson have a crack at the title this year don't get me wrong, but it's just one pole position and even if he wins tomorrow it will be a little premature, I remember when Fisichella won the opening race of 2005 everyone was talking about him as a potential title challenger but that never materialised...

[F1boat]

You are right, V12, but that's part of the passion - to dream :)

[BDunnell]

Well, at the moment people are overjoyed, but if Brawn GP continues to dominate, the excitement of all the newness will settle down and people will start complaining about domination...

Besides this, I expect that sooner or later F1 fans will start criticizing that driver skills count for nothing in F1 and how come average drivers can be winning in a dominant car...

I agree, and I think this will be unfair if it happens, largely because I don't think those who make such comments have a great deal of appreciation of F1.

Personally, I am looking forward immensely to a fascinating season and have little truck with those who are not enthusiastic about the prospects ahead.

[woody2goody]

I'd love to see Jenson have a crack at the title this year don't get me wrong, but it's just one pole position and even if he wins tomorrow it will be a little premature, I remember when Fisichella won the opening race of 2005 everyone was talking about him as a potential title challenger but that never materialised...

Sadly. I really thought he was on to something.

I like both Button and Barrichello. Actually come to think of it there aren't really any drivers I don't like apart from Piquet but that's more to do with his ability lol.

Regardless of who wins tomorrow I'm sure we'll see a great race. I'm going to come right out and say it; I think Rubinho will win the Grand Prix tomorrow after seeing the fuel loads. I'm actually surprised that Jenson is lighter, considering he didn't really like the balance on lower fuel. Jenson will probably lead the first stint, get leapfrogged in the pits, then I think he'll fight back near the end but won't be able to get past the identical car of his team mate.

[Valve Bounce]

Me too :(

[AndyL]

Regardless of who wins tomorrow I'm sure we'll see a great race. I'm going to come right out and say it; I think Rubinho will win the Grand Prix tomorrow after seeing the fuel loads. I'm actually surprised that Jenson is lighter, considering he didn't really like the balance on lower fuel. Jenson will probably lead the first stint, get leapfrogged in the pits, then I think he'll fight back near the end but won't be able to get past the identical car of his team mate.

The difference is only 2kg = 1 lap; if the difference between Jenson's and Ruben's final qualifying times is indicative, then Jenson should be able to pull out enough of a lead to negate the disadvantage of pitting a lap earlier.
Since I'd like to see either Jenson or Rubens win, I hope one of us is right :)

[blito]

Besides this, I expect that sooner or later F1 fans will start criticizing that driver skills count for nothing in F1 and how come average drivers can be winning in a dominant car...

i dont think many F1 drivers can be called average - in the right car i would say most of the current crop of drivers could be F1 winners where as an Average Joe probably couldnt win a GP in anything unless the opposition were Vespa powered bathtubs.
And then, Piquet Jr would still only come second :o

[wedge]

The difference is only 2kg = 1 lap; if the difference between Jenson's and Ruben's final qualifying times is indicative, then Jenson should be able to pull out enough of a lead to negate the disadvantage of pitting a lap earlier.
Since I'd like to see either Jenson or Rubens win, I hope one of us is right :)

In 2007 Kimi often had an extra lap of fuel and beat Massa.

[Knock-on]

I'm loving reading some of these old threads.

Qudos to VB for taking it on the chin but 555 needs to make some recompence :D

(Sorry boys, it's a slow work day ;) )

[555-04Q2]

(Sorry boys, it's a slow work day ;) )

I'm sure there are other people you could rather be annoying then :p :

[Knock-on]

I'm sure there are other people you could rather be annoying then :p :

other people I could be annoying but I don't know about the "rather" bit ;)

[555-04Q2]

other people I could be annoying but I don't know about the "rather" bit ;)

Go drown the window cleaner or something :D

Just to show you that I am a sport and I stuck my foot down my throat and out of my ar$e, for this week and this week only, I will add to my siggy a little tribute to Button (for your viewing pleasure) for his impressive form so far this season. It will become a permanent siggy for 2010 should he actually manage to win the WDC this year.

May Button continue to prove his critics wrong - but Massa will win in Turkey.

[ShiftingGears]

but Massa will win in Turkey.

I hope so!

[Knock-on]

Go drown the window cleaner or something :D

Just to show you that I am a sport and I stuck my foot down my throat and out of my ar$e, for this week and this week only, I will add to my siggy a little tribute to Button (for your viewing pleasure) for his impressive form so far this season. It will become a permanent siggy for 2010 should he actually manage to win the WDC this year.

May Button continue to prove his critics wrong - but Massa will win in Turkey.

Ahhh, you're not as bad as they all say ;)

:D

[555-04Q2]

Trust me I'm worse than they say with occassional soft patches :p :

[Knock-on]

Trust me I'm worse than they say with occassional soft patches :p :

I heard it was bald patches :p :

[555-04Q2]

I heard it was bald patches :p :

Now you sound like my wife :D

[Valve Bounce]

Go drown the window cleaner or something :D

Just to show you that I am a sport and I stuck my foot down my throat and out of my ar$e, for this week and this week only, I will add to my siggy a little tribute to Button (for your viewing pleasure) for his impressive form so far this season. It will become a permanent siggy for 2010 should he actually manage to win the WDC this year.

May Button continue to prove his critics wrong - but Massa will win in Turkey.

Welcome to the bunsen appreciation club. May it continue to succeed at every race.

[555-04Q2]

Welcome to the bunsen appreciation club. May it continue to succeed at every race.

Youre taking it a bit to far now Valve ;) :D

[Knock-on]

I made a few sig bets with people but can't remember half of them now :D

[jens]

But generally Button can be very consistent, so in a season like 2008, when no top contenders had a smooth year, a consistent driver could well stay among the leaders in a highly competitive car.

Mm. And once again he is extremely consistent and in a car that is faster than anyone else's, he can keep winning really comfortably.

But as incredible as it may sound - after 10 years in F1 Button is still a bit unproven. What does it mean? I hope he will get paired with a true top ace sooner or later, whose skills are in no doubt. Like Alonso. So far he hasn't got such benchmark.

But generally Button's fate seems to become quite reminiscent of Häkkinen's. Both were staying and waiting in "their" teams for years before finally reaching the top after the team had hired a top specialist (Brawn and Newey respectively) previously. Both had just one win before the breakthrough year. Even their ages have been quite similar, when they have started winning: Mika - 30, Jenson - 29. Does that mean that Brawn GP will stay in the top for a few more years and JB will participate in more title battles? :s mokin:

[ioan]

Does that mean that Brawn GP will stay in the top for a few more years and JB will participate in more title battles? :s mokin:

I doubt it, it will be an achievement if they manage to win races in the 2nd half of this season.