Africa

[Roamy]

Well this is quite a diverse continent (god forbid if I said "country" - I would get sent to Alaska)

So lets get right too it. So the Brits went down there at a point in history and stole a bunch of land - correct me if I am wrong.

Parts of Africa flourished under Brit rule.

Northern Africa one was a cool hangout for the rich and famous but has now been taken over by the Islams and turned into a terrorist hangout

Now the Brit part is being returned to the Africans which they are promptly turning into and giant cesspool

OK Tire's - lets hear from you!!

[Mark]

You forgot the French.

[donKey jote]

Well this is quite a diverse continent (god forbid if I said "country" - I would get sent to Alaska)
yes, but people know you so you would be forgiven...



So lets get right too it. So the Brits went down there at a point in history and stole a bunch of land - correct me if I am wrong.
The Brits, the French, the Germans hell even the Spanish and the Belgians :dozey:



Parts of Africa flourished under Brit rule.
depends what you define as flourish, and who flourished



Northern Africa one was a cool hangout for the rich and famous but has now been taken over by the Islams and turned into a terrorist hangout
Northern Africa has been Muslim for milenia, but I guess that's not what you're referring too :dozey:


Now the Brit part is being returned to the Africans which they are promptly turning into and giant cesspool
What do you suggest, stick to 19th Century colonialism and/or Apartheid?
Or do you believe that "Africans" are somehow inferior and not able to sort themselves out :s


OK Tire's - lets hear from you!!
tire's what?
oh tires... hmmmm! ahhhh lurv the smell of the black stuff in the morning :D

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Roamy]

Tire = The Islamic Republic of Europe :p

[A.F.F.]

I hate the members of Tire. They steal the thunder from Flaming Fags of Scandinavia in which me and my sister proudly belong. And with my sister I mean my brother.

[Easy Drifter]

Don't forget the Dutch, Portugese and the Italians.

[Tazio]

Well at least The Brits, Italians, and French introduced some top notch motor racing! :p :
Doesn't that make up for their imperialistic reins of terror! :confused:

[donKey jote]

Don't forget the Dutch, Portugese and the Italians.

oops I forgot the other former Spanish colonies :p :

[Camelopard]

You forgot the French.


He also forgot the Germans and the Belgians and the Spanish and the Portugese and the Dutch and the Italians and the Turkish and Arabs and not also forgetting of course the Romans, the Greeks, the Phonecians and so on.................................

But I'm not suprised, fausto probably didn't learn about World Geography and World History when (if?) he went to school.............................

[Camelopard]

What have the Romans ever done for us?

[Lousada]

Don't forget the Dutch, Portugese and the Italians.

The Dutch never had colonies (as in "territory") in Africa during the "Scramble for Africa"

[donKey jote]

they had Boers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diIW_E851ms) though :)

[Roamy]

What have the Romans ever done for us?

We can start with Ferraris, women and wine and by the time we finish my fingers will be sore from typing.

[Roamy]

I seem to remember reading about some very nice, neat, clean towns such as Salisbury. Which now I understand has been turned into the sh!thole of zebra ranch. I hear that Johannesburg is still quite nice but the question here is if it is
growing more beautiful or shrinking in ugliness!! 555 can probably enlighten us.

[Camelopard]

We can start with Ferraris, women and wine and by the time we finish my fingers will be sore from typing.

It's a quote from "The Life of Brian", a bit too obscure for some people I guess. :)

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-09.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Can I suggest that you look here for starters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Africa to learn something about the history of the continent and the fact that it existed way before the Europeans colonised the place.

[Eki]

depends what you define as flourish, and who flourished



Yes. Speaking of tires:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo#History


The Congo Free State (1877–1908)

European exploration and administration took place from the 1870s until the 1920s. It was first led by Sir Henry Morton Stanley, who undertook his explorations under the sponsorship of King Leopold II of Belgium. Leopold had designs on what was to become the Congo as a colony. In a succession of negotiations, Leopold, professing humanitarian objectives in his capacity as chairman of the Association Internationale Africaine, played one European rival against the other.

Leopold formally acquired the Congo territory at the Conference of Berlin in 1885. He made the land his private property and named it the Congo Free State. Leopold's regime began various infrastructure projects, such as construction of the railway that ran from the coast to the capital of Leopoldville (now Kinshasa). It took years to complete. Nearly all such projects were aimed at increasing the capital which Leopold and his associates could extract from the colony, leading to exploitation of Africans.


In the Free State, colonists brutalized the local population to produce rubber, for which the spread of autos and development of rubber tires created a growing international market. The sale of rubber made a fortune for Leopold, who built several buildings in Brussels and Ostend to honour himself and his country. To enforce the rubber quotas, the army, the Force Publique (FP), was called in. The Force Publique made the practice of cutting off the limbs of the natives as a means of enforcing rubber quotas a matter of policy; this practice was widespread. During the period 1885–1908, between 5 and 15 (the commonly accepted figure is about 10) million Congolese died as a consequence of exploitation and diseases. A government commission later concluded that the population of the Congo had been "reduced by half" during this period.[10] The actions of the Free State's administration sparked international protests led by E. D. Morel and British diplomat/Irish patriot Roger Casement, whose 1904 report on the Congo condemned the practice. Famous writers such as Mark Twain also protested, and Joseph Conrad's novella Heart of Darkness was set in Congo Free State.

In 1908, the Belgian parliament, despite initial reluctance, bowed to international pressure (especially that from Great Britain) and took over the Free State as a Belgian colony from the king. From then on, it was called the Belgian Congo and was under the rule of the elected Belgian government

[Roamy]

It's a quote from "The Life of Brian", a bit too obscure for some people I guess. :)

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-09.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Can I suggest that you look here for starters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Africa to learn something about the history of the continent and the fact that it existed way before the Europeans colonised the place.

great idea cameltoe it has to be better than reading so gay book about "Brian"
But it is more fun to hear you Euros fill me in - lots of culture and thievery here is much better.

I guess if I understand correctly Portugal took over angola.
So lets do a little check

Portugal - angola
brits - rhodesia - south africa and probably wherever the diamonds are

ok continue the list

[Daniel]

I seem to remember reading about some very nice, neat, clean towns such as Salisbury. Which now I understand has been turned into the sh!thole of zebra ranch. I hear that Johannesburg is still quite nice but the question here is if it is
growing more beautiful or shrinking in ugliness!! 555 can probably enlighten us.

Jo'burg isn't all nice :) My mums sister lives in Sandton which is a really nice bit of Jo'burg but there are a LOT of places you just don't want to go....

[Camelopard]

I guess if I understand correctly Portugal took over angola.
So lets do a little check

Portugal - angola
brits - rhodesia - south africa and probably wherever the diamonds are

ok continue the list


So Angola existed as a country before the Portugese arrived? Good grief you really are an ignorant person, says a lot about your education system, doesn't it?

In a previous thread vop said spending his taxes on education was a waste of money, if you are a typical result then I'll have to agree with him. :(


The quote from 'The Life of Brian' was an obscure attempt to show that the Romans had provinces in Africa thousands of years ago and before them the Greeks, the Phonecians and many others. Ever heard of Carthage or the Punic Wars, just as starters??

[Rollo]

Northern Africa one was a cool hangout for the rich and famous but has now been taken over by the Islams and turned into a terrorist hangout

Now been taken over? I think you'll find that Uqba ibn Nafi swept through northern Africa in about 670AD, prior to that the Rashidun Caliphate reached it's height in about 654AD spreading Islam.

[Roamy]

So Angola existed as a country before the Portugese arrived? Good grief you really are an ignorant person, says a lot about your education system, doesn't it?

In a previous thread vop said spending his taxes on education was a waste of money, if you are a typical result then I'll have to agree with him. :(


The quote from 'The Life of Brian' was an obscure attempt to show that the Romans had provinces in Africa thousands of years ago and before them the Greeks, the Phonecians and many others. Ever heard of Carthage or the Punic Wars, just as starters??

Right Cameltoe we all sat around studying about Africa because we certainly didn't want to know about how to build the Raptor. And then when is came time to learn about cruise missiles we all said - we'll pass we want to study about some fag Brian.

[Camelopard]

Please, oh please tell me how I'm not defending myself and what relevance that is has to do with a thread about Africa???????

I stand in awe of your obvious intelligence and knowledge when it comes to Raptors AND Cruise Missiles whilst waiting for you to to come back with some witty, sardonic, biting comments that really hurt :) .

Guess I'll be waiting a loooong looong time..........

[Roamy]

actually what these threads should include is a place to learn not a place to be called ignorant because one studies different fields. I would certainly expect you to know more about Africa than me.

[Camelopard]

I would certainly expect you to know more about Africa than me.

Why would that be? Because I had a high school education?

Now I understand why you think I'm a Euro. You think I'm from Austria, a country in Europe and a member of the European Union, whereas as I am actually from A-U-S-T-R-A-L-I-A.

If you have ever had a look at a world map you will see that Australia is in the bottom half (we call it the Southern Hemisphere) between Africa and South America, although there is a lot of blue stuff called water and a few other places between us and them.

Fousto, easiest way to remember the difference between the two is that we (that is Australia) have kangaroos

http://blog.bioethics.net/541447%7EAustralian-Kangaroo-Posters.jpg

and Austria doesn't.

Thus begins your education, whoops wrong thread, this one is meant to be about Africa, sorry. :)

[Rollo]

Shh. There's a Union Jack in the corner of the flag of Australia... just like this country:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Flag_of_Hawaii.svg/125px-Flag_of_Hawaii.svg.png

[leopard]

That kangaroo...evokes feeling pity. ;)

[Roamy]

Cameltoe - hell its my mistake I confused you with 555 Must be the camel in your name that leads one to believe. - So you are a Euro criminal - now that makes sense. I also really like your school picture that you have enclosed. :p :p

[Roamy]

Hey Rollo could you make me a flag incorporating New Mexico and Mexico. It appears that we are two slow building this goddamn fence.

[Roamy]

Now back to the thread at hand - we are supposed to be discussing the euros in africa so far I have only learned that a camel screwed a rat and we have kangaroo's

How lets see who owns the diamond companies in Africa.

[Camelopard]

A straight up question fausto, do you know where the flag is from that Rollo posted the picture of????? A clue it's not in Africa!

[Camelopard]

Hey Rollo could you make me a flag incorporating New Mexico and Mexico........


Hey Fousto, a straight up question for you. Do you know where the flag is from that Rollo posted the picture of? A clue, it's not in Africa! :)

[Garry Walker]

What do you suggest, stick to 19th Century colonialism and/or Apartheid?
Or do you believe that "Africans" are somehow inferior and not able to sort themselves out :s


I think africans have more than once shown to be incapable of sorting themselves out and of course, it is the rest of the world who has to help them out because they are too stupid and lazy.

[rah]

I think africans have more than once shown to be incapable of sorting themselves out and of course, it is the rest of the world who has to help them out because they are too stupid and lazy.

Nothing like a totally ignorant response eh?

[Daniel]

He's not actually that far wrong to be fair.

You need only look at the amount of war, death, genocide and so on and so forth since the colonial powers left and you'll see that the native peoples aren't necessarily any better than the colonial powers and in some cases they're worse.

Watch this video and the other 2 videos which follow on and you'll see that things are pretty bad in SA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_X3mMKQqmg

People in South Africa were promised housing and everything the white man had when the ANC came to power and all they've got now is an even bigger AIDS problem, slightly better housing, crime which is much the same and corrupt people like Jacob Zuma grabbing more and more power.....



b_X3mMKQqmg

[ShiftingGears]

He's not actually that far wrong to be fair.

You need only look at the amount of war, death, genocide and so on and so forth since the colonial powers left and you'll see that the native peoples aren't necessarily any better than the colonial powers and in some cases they're worse.

Watch this video and the other 2 videos which follow on and you'll see that things are pretty bad in SA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_X3mMKQqmg

People in South Africa were promised housing and everything the white man had when the ANC came to power and all they've got now is an even bigger AIDS problem, slightly better housing, crime which is much the same and corrupt people like Jacob Zuma grabbing more and more power.....



b_X3mMKQqmg


Cheers for the link. Louis Theroux shows are great.

[Daniel]

Cheers for the link. Louis Theroux shows are great.

Yeah they're great :) I'm certainly a big fan of his TV shows :up:

[Roamy]

Hey Fousto, a straight up question for you. Do you know where the flag is from that Rollo posted the picture of? A clue, it's not in Africa! :)

As I recall I saw this flag when playing golf somewhere. Maybe I can get my brain to get past the "Hula Girls" and get back to you :p

[donKey jote]

I think africans have more than once shown to be incapable of sorting themselves out and of course, it is the rest of the world who has to help them out because they are too stupid and lazy.
not that I would normally react to such stupid and lazy comments, but which africans do you mean here, the lost white tribes of SA (boers)? black africans? arab africans? or the lot of them ? :dozey:

[Roamy]

nice

Scores of Zimbabwe farms 'seized'


There are said to be about 400 white-owned farms left in Zimbabwe
Scores of white-owned farms in Zimbabwe have been invaded since the country's national unity government took office, a union chief has told the BBC.
Commercial Farmers Union President Trevor Gifford said 77 properties had been occupied in the last fortnight.
MPs, police, the military and Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe officials had taken part in the invasions, he said.
Many of the farmers targeted recently mounted a successful legal challenge to government land reforms, he added.
The Southern African Development Community (Sadc) Tribunal ruled in November the Zimbabwe government's programme of seizing white-owned property for redistribution to landless blacks was discriminatory and illegal.
The government said at the time that it would not comply with the ruling.

[rah]

He's not actually that far wrong to be fair.

You need only look at the amount of war, death, genocide and so on and so forth since the colonial powers left and you'll see that the native peoples aren't necessarily any better than the colonial powers and in some cases they're worse.

Watch this video and the other 2 videos which follow on and you'll see that things are pretty bad in SA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_X3mMKQqmg

People in South Africa were promised housing and everything the white man had when the ANC came to power and all they've got now is an even bigger AIDS problem, slightly better housing, crime which is much the same and corrupt people like Jacob Zuma grabbing more and more power.....



b_X3mMKQqmg

So he is not that far wrong to call an entire continent too lazy and stupid to look after itself.

There are more issues at play in Africa than is obvious at first and many countries have different problems brought on by different issues. Lumping an entire continent into a gross and ignorant generalisation is pretty stupid if you ask me.

[555-04Q2]

I seem to remember reading about some very nice, neat, clean towns such as Salisbury. Which now I understand has been turned into the sh!thole of zebra ranch. I hear that Johannesburg is still quite nice but the question here is if it is
growing more beautiful or shrinking in ugliness!! 555 can probably enlighten us.

There are some great cities in Africa, especially in South Africa. On the west coast Cape Town is beautiful with Table Mountain as a backdrop, on the east coast Durban is the holiday city, mid east cosat Knysna and George are retirement/holiday heavens, Richards Bay and the St Lucia areas on our north coast are home to great parks, unspoilt beaches and beautiful mangroves. We have great parks and the worlds best game reserves. Thats the good parts of our country.

Unfortunately, some large cities in South Africa like Johannesburg are overun with illegal immigrants from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Uganda etc are are now a cesspool for extreme violent crime and corruption. I dont think people from the West can appreciate the extreme violent nature of our crime in these kinds of places. The Johannesburg CBD is a dirty place where anyone with common sense steers clear of.

[Roamy]

There are some great cities in Africa, especially in South Africa. On the west coast Cape Town is beautiful with Table Mountain as a backdrop, on the east coast Durban is the holiday city, mid east cosat Knysna and George are retirement/holiday heavens, Richards Bay and the St Lucia areas on our north coast are home to great parks, unspoilt beaches and beautiful mangroves. We have great parks and the worlds best game reserves. Thats the good parts of our country.

Unfortunately, some large cities in South Africa like Johannesburg are overun with illegal immigrants from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Uganda etc are are now a cesspool for extreme violent crime and corruption. I dont think people from the West can appreciate the extreme violent nature of our crime in these kinds of places. The Johannesburg CBD is a dirty place where anyone with common sense steers clear of.

But what then is the future - looking at what is happening in areas close by. How long before the resorts will be taken over?? And whats to stop it?

Has Johannesburg always been like this?

[555-04Q2]

Dude, I'm from Africa. You have no idea what happens over here mate. Africans are incapable of making even simple decisions or executing simple jobs your 5 year old could do. Sadly, Africa will never rise from its poverty stricken and corrupt situation while Africans are in charge. Just look at the Zimbabwe crisis, the dozens of Coups, poor infrastructure on the entire continent etc etc.

If Westerners had never arrived on African shores, Africa wouldnt have a single TV, brick house, school, hospital etc at all. Sad, but true.

[Roamy]

Good Post 555 and I think the facts are clearly proving just what you are saying.

But can you keep the nice part nice??

[leopard]

Yeah perhaps some tips from those are currently settling down in Africa would give some worthy of advice..., the whole Africa would always be temptation to pay some short visit, not sure if you by coincidence have to stay there in more long period of time.

My itinerary of the visit would prefer the east coast area, starting from Serengeti Park..., then go in a ferry to Daressalaam and Zanzibar. The Tanzanian highland where we can breath in fresh air of tea plantation carpet and pluck the crop would be unforgettable...

There are still a lot of places deserve of the visit, perhaps including also Mauritius and Madagascar...

[555-04Q2]

But what then is the future - looking at what is happening in areas close by. How long before the resorts will be taken over?? And whats to stop it?

Has Johannesburg always been like this?

We wont have land invasions in South Africa the way it happened in Zimbabwe. There is a process in place that is rectifying the historical problem of land distribution.

Johannesburg (as with all major cities in South Africa) used to be a beautiful, safe place, until our new democracy came into effect in 1994. Since then, it is dangerous to drive through them, let alone walk the streets. I remeber as a young man in high school in 1992 walking approx 12 kilometers from the Berea to Durban beachfront at 5am in the morning to go and surf without any harrasment. I wouldnt drive that route today at lunch time :(

[555-04Q2]

Good Post 555 and I think the facts are clearly proving just what you are saying.

But can you keep the nice part nice??

Yes. The historical CBD areas are being taken over by the slumlords and we are creating our own, new CBD areas that are better than any other areas I have seen during my travels around the world. South Africa, even with all its problems, is a far better place to live than anywhere else I have been and that includes the USA, most of Europe, UAE and China. Cant comment on Australasia as I havent been there yet, but my friends who have emmigrated there say it is exactly like South Africa, just with a whole bunch of Bruces with funny accents :p :

[Daniel]

There are some great cities in Africa, especially in South Africa. On the west coast Cape Town is beautiful with Table Mountain as a backdrop, on the east coast Durban is the holiday city, mid east cosat Knysna and George are retirement/holiday heavens, Richards Bay and the St Lucia areas on our north coast are home to great parks, unspoilt beaches and beautiful mangroves. We have great parks and the worlds best game reserves. Thats the good parts of our country.

Unfortunately, some large cities in South Africa like Johannesburg are overun with illegal immigrants from Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Uganda etc are are now a cesspool for extreme violent crime and corruption. I dont think people from the West can appreciate the extreme violent nature of our crime in these kinds of places. The Johannesburg CBD is a dirty place where anyone with common sense steers clear of.

I can only echo this having been to SA 3 times, having loads of family there and having a brother who lived there for a couple of years too. You don't go into the CBD in Jo'burg, you just don't unless you've got an escort like Louis Theroux did.

[gadjo_dilo]

I think africans have more than once shown to be incapable of sorting themselves out and of course, it is the rest of the world who has to help them out because they are too stupid and lazy.
Stupid and lazy....
This must be the reason why in the past americans used to treat african slaves like animals on their plantations....
Using lazy african slaves for work when they could have used the smart hard working guys who left Europe and settled in America... Just imagine how many potential crops were wasted.... :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

Yes. The historical CBD areas are being taken over by the slumlords and we are creating our own, new CBD areas that are better than any other areas I have seen during my travels around the world. South Africa, even with all its problems, is a far better place to live than anywhere else I have been and that includes the USA, most of Europe, UAE and China. Cant comment on Australasia as I havent been there yet, but my friends who have emmigrated there say it is exactly like South Africa, just with a whole bunch of Bruces with funny accents :p :

Yeah, Australia is pretty excellent.

[Daniel]

Yes. The historical CBD areas are being taken over by the slumlords and we are creating our own, new CBD areas that are better than any other areas I have seen during my travels around the world. South Africa, even with all its problems, is a far better place to live than anywhere else I have been and that includes the USA, most of Europe, UAE and China. Cant comment on Australasia as I havent been there yet, but my friends who have emmigrated there say it is exactly like South Africa, just with a whole bunch of Bruces with funny accents :p :

Yes Australia is a lot like SA which is why a lot of South Africans have settled there. In 2006 there were almost 20,000 South Africans in Perth out of 1.4 million people so it's quite a popular destination. You also get South African shops which sell things which you can't get in normal shops and you also get a couple of South African butchers so you can get your boerwors, biltong and droewors :)

[555-04Q2]

Our government has a policy of using labour instead of machines to help create more jobs. Commendable, but this leads to scenarios such as this:

We needed a trench dug 100meters long by 300mm wide by 1000mm deep for the laying of multi-core cables in our industrial area. Instead of using a TLB that could do it in 5 to 6 hours, the muniucipality employed 20 labourers to complete the task. It took just under 8 months to dig the trench I sh!t you not. The reason? 20 labourers sitting in the shade all day, NOT WORKING, until the boss comes around the corner and they jump up and start again.

People in Africa are always looking for handouts, they dont want to progress or put effort into improving their own lives, fact, I see it everyday. As my head mechanic said to me a few years back, "we Africans live for today, there is no tomorrow".

[gadjo_dilo]

The reason? 20 labourers sitting in the shade all day, NOT WORKING, until the boss comes around the corner and they jump up and start again.
This sounds familiar to me. I can see this picture every day in my hometown without living in Africa. :laugh:
I blame it on the old slogan " they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work ".


People in Africa are always looking for handouts, they dont want to progress or put effort into improving their own lives, fact, I see it everyday. .
I think they have another philosophy of life as there are cultural differences between different parts of the world, even on the same continent. The vision upon life or work is different. Unfortunately, talking about progress and improving our lives, I can see only a "material" improvement of our life which sadly made us dependent of confort and consume.
Maybe they live a poor life but at the same time neither those who enjoy a comfortable life aren't kept away from progressive insanity, depression, confusion of purpose, human inequity and despair.

As my head mechanic said to me a few years back, "we Africans live for today, there is no tomorrow".
Interesting. That is making my head say " we, the recent ( pretendng to be modern ) people of the so called civilized world, in our rush to jump earlier in the future, have amputeted our past finding out that the present isn't enough for us and the future doesn't exist anymore". :laugh:

[Eki]

If Westerners had never arrived on African shores, Africa wouldnt have a single TV, brick house, school, hospital etc at all. Sad, but true.
Are you saying people can't be happy without a TV, brick house, school or a hospital and the Westerners only brought them happiness?

[Ranger]

Are you saying people can't be happy without a TV, brick house, school or a hospital and the Westerners only brought them happiness?

Being an educated, healthy and wealthy person may not make anyone happy... but at least they are educated, healthy and wealthy.


Yeah they're great :) I'm certainly a big fan of his TV shows :up:
They're pretty interesting as far as their subject matter is concerned, personally I find his manner a wee bit annoying though, he comes across as someone who's purely looking for an audience reaction at times.

[gadjo_dilo]

Being an educated, healthy and wealthy person may not make anyone happy... but at least they are educated, healthy and wealthy.

Health and wealth may disapear from day to day. Education is not impressive when your ( generally speaking, I don't speak about your person ) moral standards are low.

[Tazio]

Man is neither happier nor wiser than he was eight-thousand years ago.
Simply busier----Eddy Poe
The year of our Lord---1838

[555-04Q2]

Are you saying people can't be happy without a TV, brick house, school or a hospital and the Westerners only brought them happiness?

Thats not what I said. Its not that they arent happy, its that they arent interested improving themselves, hence, they would still be living in dung huts today oblivious to the fact that there is another world out there if it werent for the Dutch, Portugeuse, French etc etc

[Ranger]

Health and wealth may disapear from day to day. Education is not impressive when your ( generally speaking, I don't speak about your person ) moral standards are low.

Indeed, but you can't institutionalise morality like you can health and education... one can only hope that everyone has been raised with the same basic morals.

Unfortunately in many places and for many individuals, that sense of hope is misplaced.

[Roamy]

Now what about Kenya - Flavio like to go there and hang out. What is the attraction?

[gadjo_dilo]

Now what about Kenya - Flavio like to go there and hang out. What is the attraction?

The wild habitat, the exotic massai tribes, the incredible fauna, the safari routes, etc.

[555-04Q2]

The wild habitat, the exotic massai tribes, the incredible fauna, the safari routes, etc.

Friendly people too. The Kenyans are pretty friendly to foreigners and dont tolerate the pick pockets etc messing with tourists as they know that tourists bring much needed US Dollars to their stores and country.

Just dont fly Kenyan Airlines!!! I flew business class with them in July 2007 to Dubai, the worst flight of my life!!!

[Lousada]

People in Africa are always looking for handouts, they dont want to progress or put effort into improving their own lives, fact, I see it everyday. As my head mechanic said to me a few years back, "we Africans live for today, there is no tomorrow".

Sounds like they would be great bankers....

[Daniel]

Thats not what I said. Its not that they arent happy, its that they arent interested improving themselves, hence, they would still be living in dung huts today oblivious to the fact that there is another world out there if it werent for the Dutch, Portugeuse, French etc etc
Don't bother mate. Just don't bother. It's something people have to experience for themselves or at least find out from someone who's experienced it first hand.

[Daniel]

Now what about Kenya - Flavio like to go there and hang out. What is the attraction?

Seriously dude. Africa is a beautiful place when you get out of the the cities or when you're in a nice city like Cape Town. If you haven't been you should go.

[donKey jote]

I've only been to SA once (Jo'burg area) and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Sure it was only a couple of days, but one thing I couldn't help but notice was how proud everybody (both black and white) was of their country and how pleased everybody seemed to be that us donkeys "dared" to visit.
We saw many extremes: slums vs 5 star resorts; lively parks with people out and about vs ranches enclosed in barbed wire with a "golliwog" statue at the gate. While I wouldn't have gone into the slum parts of Soweto (3M+ inhabitants) on my own or without a guide, I can't help but think I wouldn't even find a guide to take me into the slum parts of Madrid (3M+ inhabitants), for example :p :
The whole place reminded me a lot of Spain and I felt much more at home there than my colleagues - no wonder some say Africa starts at the Pyrenees :D

Unfortunately, the economic crisis has taken it's toll and we were informed today that the events we were planning for the FIFA 2010 have been "put on hold" :(

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Garry Walker]

Nothing like a totally ignorant response eh?

point out the ignorance in my post.


not that I would normally react to such stupid and lazy comments,
Nor would I in real life bother communicating with an obvious cretin like you, so I guess we both have to compromise.



but which africans do you mean here, the lost white tribes of SA (boers)? black africans? arab africans? or the lot of them ? :dozey:

black africans mostly.



Dude, I'm from Africa. You have no idea what happens over here mate. Africans are incapable of making even simple decisions or executing simple jobs your 5 year old could do. Sadly, Africa will never rise from its poverty stricken and corrupt situation while Africans are in charge. Just look at the Zimbabwe crisis, the dozens of Coups, poor infrastructure on the entire continent etc etc.

If Westerners had never arrived on African shores, Africa wouldnt have a single TV, brick house, school, hospital etc at all. Sad, but true.

Indeed. There is a reason why africa is in such dire straits and it has nothing to do with colonisation. A good example is South Africa and what has happened since whites are not in power anymore.




People in Africa are always looking for handouts.
Something, dare I add, many blacks in America are doing as well. Unfortunately, it has spread to many whites as well.

[donKey jote]

Nor would I in real life bother communicating with an obvious cretin like you
how deeply insightful of you :laugh:


I think africans have more than once shown to be incapable of sorting themselves out and of course, it is the rest of the world who has to help them out because they are too stupid and lazy.
do keep enlightening us with your surreal life world view :dozey:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Garry Walker]

how deeply insightful of you :laugh:
When one makes such a stupid post as you did, the reply I gave you was the maximum you deserved.



do keep enlightening us with your surreal life world view :dozey:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Do enlighten me about the successes africans have had then. :laugh: :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Do enlighten me about the successes africans have had then. :laugh: :laugh:

Are you suggesting that no African, or person of African descent, has ever achieved anything of note? What about successes on a personal level, or don't they mean anything at all? What about the numerous sporting successes of Africans, or those who have been successful in business at home and abroad?

[Easy Drifter]

Errr, should we mention the President of the United States?
Or The Govenor General of Canada?
Or Colin Powell?
Or Condoleeza Rice?
Or a several thousand more?

[Daniel]

Errr, should we mention the President of the United States?
Or The Govenor General of Canada?
Or Colin Powell?
Or Condoleeza Rice?
Or a several thousand more?
Errr Condy might not be a good example ;)

[Camelopard]

Sounds like they would be great bankers....

Or car companies........................... :)

[555-04Q2]

Sounds like they would be great bankers....

:laugh: Too true :up:

[555-04Q2]

Unfortunately, the economic crisis has taken it's toll and we were informed today that the events we were planning for the FIFA 2010 have been "put on hold" :(

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Thats a pity cause we are on track with roads and stadia infrastructure. In fact, we are ahead of schedule for FIFA 2010. And some of the stadiums are truly breathtaking in size and design, especially our Moses Mabida stadium here in Durban.

[Camelopard]

When one makes such a stupid post as you did, the reply I gave you was the maximum you deserved.


Says the card carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan. Dumb b*stards should still be in the fields pickin' cotton, preferably wearing leg irons so they don't escape and rape all our good white girls............ Yes Massa?

Something I can't stand is a blick who doesn't know his place. :)

[Easy Drifter]

Hey folks I know just about anything goes on Chit Chat and I am not a moderator (thankfully) but could we please cool it with the retoric.

I know I get a little snarky at times but some of you are getting a little vehment.

Please?

[gadjo_dilo]

Do enlighten me about the successes africans have had then. :laugh: :laugh:

1.Is the real purpose of men on earth to be successful? We still don't know. :laugh:

2.Success is related to words like achievement. fame, triumph and may mean the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors, the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like.
Since this notion is so relative we can mention as successful africans dictators ( bad influence but for them it was an achievement :laugh: ) like Jean Bedel Bokassa or Idi Amin, the beautiful Charlize Theron, singers like Youssou N'Dour and the legendary Miriam Makeba, footballers ( too many to mention ), a lot af athlets ( Bikila Abebe is still a legend ) , Nelson Mandela, etc.etc. But there may also be a lot people who are not famous but do well in their activity

3. Your reasoning is racist. I bet that if in your statement we exchange "africans " with " bulgarians" "romanians " "latvians" " finns" " lithuanians " " estonians ", etc. you'll not be able to mention anything although their countries belong to the " civilized world " and are EU members.

[Daniel]

They're pretty interesting as far as their subject matter is concerned, personally I find his manner a wee bit annoying though, he comes across as someone who's purely looking for an audience reaction at times.

True, but the responses he managed to get out of people are amazing.

[Garry Walker]

Are you suggesting that no African, or person of African descent, has ever achieved anything of note? What about successes on a personal level, or don't they mean anything at all? What about the numerous sporting successes of Africans, or those who have been successful in business at home and abroad?

Of course, my post was about african countries and I should have highlighted that more obviously.


Says the card carrying member of the Ku Klux Klan.

Do you really think I care even slightly if you say I am a member of KKK? :rotflmao:



3. Your reasoning is racist. I bet that if in your statement we exchange "africans " with " bulgarians" "romanians " "latvians" " finns" " lithuanians " " estonians ", etc. you'll not be able to mention anything although their countries belong to the " civilized world " and are EU members.

Racist? African countries are far behind the rest of the world and achieved very little. People are starving, AIDS is widespread, economy is in ruins and that despite the fact that many african countries have loads of natural resources.

To compare them with european countries is quite idiotic.

[schmenke]

...The Govenor General of Canada?
...

Michaëlle Jean is not from Africa :erm:

[Easy Drifter]

I know she is Haitian but is her ancestry not Africa? I could easily be wrong.
Obama is the closest as his father is Kenyan.

[donKey jote]

When one makes such a stupid post as you did, the reply I gave you was the maximum you deserved.
:dozey:

I called this:

I think africans ... are stupid and lazy.
a stupid and lazy post, and asked you to be more specific.

You then specified:

black africans mostly.
which was, to be honest, the reply I was expecting from you :laugh:

Your posts in this thread say a lot about you :dozey:

[donKey jote]

Thats a pity cause we are on track with roads and stadia infrastructure. In fact, we are ahead of schedule for FIFA 2010.
and all this despite being so lazy and stupid :p :

Seriously, yes it is a pity. As I said, everything I saw looked great. :)

My company will still be involved as it is one of the FIFA 2010 sponsors, but the "driving experience" events we were planning to organize have been cut short :(

[Camelopard]

Do you really think I care even slightly if you say I am a member of KKK?

I couldn't give a toss if you care or not, but it must have touched a nerve seeing as you bothered to reply to it. :p :

[rah]

Dude, I'm from Africa. You have no idea what happens over here mate. Africans are incapable of making even simple decisions or executing simple jobs your 5 year old could do. Sadly, Africa will never rise from its poverty stricken and corrupt situation while Africans are in charge. Just look at the Zimbabwe crisis, the dozens of Coups, poor infrastructure on the entire continent etc etc.

If Westerners had never arrived on African shores, Africa wouldnt have a single TV, brick house, school, hospital etc at all. Sad, but true.

Sorry been a while since I have been online.

I really don't know if you are racist and I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but I just want to say your post "sounds" racist.

To say that Africans cannot look after themselves implies they have had a chance to do it sometime in the last few hundred years. Africa has been constatly meddled with for so long that it is never going to fix itself up in any short time. And there will be no short time when there is so much interest in keeping Africa unstable.

[rah]

point out the ignorance in my post.



I did. And by the way, racism IS ignorant.

[edv]

Africa will not come around until its brightest people stop leaving. And having lived there for years, I do not see that happening anytime soon.

[pino]

Let's quit insults, and personal comments right now, or I will start to use the button-ban. Also any (stupid) racist comment will be deleted and punished with a month ban. Yes racism is stupid ! :mad:

[gadjo_dilo]

Where has my latest post about successsful africans disapear and why?

[pino]

Where has my latest post about successsful africans disapear and why?

This thread needed a big cleaning sorry :)

[555-04Q2]

I really don't know if you are racist and I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but I just want to say your post "sounds" racist.

To say that Africans cannot look after themselves implies they have had a chance to do it sometime in the last few hundred years. Africa has been constatly meddled with for so long that it is never going to fix itself up in any short time. And there will be no short time when there is so much interest in keeping Africa unstable.

I'm no racist my friend. I used to provide free training schools for "previously disadvantaged" individuals (ie: black people) which I stopped as the people trained did nothing with the free skills that we taught them. Sad but true. I still do charity work though with Lions International for struggling poor families (90% are black, 5% white, 5% Indian & Chinese) as my civic duty.

Back to the point though. Africans are more interested in asking for a handout and less interested in doing something to improve their situation themselves. The only way that people on this continent are going to get off their backsides is for the West to stop pouring "aid" into Africa and rather tell us to get off our backsides and do it ourselves. This is why Africa will sadly not evolve the way the Western civilisations have.

As for people meddling in Africa, we have only ourselves to blame. Resourses are taken from Africa by Western companies, governments etc as Africa is either unwilling or unable to do it themselves. Look at China. They are building thousands of roads, schools, hospitals etc for several African countries in return for their resources. Why? Because the majority of Africa is too stupid to mine the resources themselves, sell it and build their own schools etc.

There are some successful countries such as South Africa, Namibia, Botswana etc with good infrastructure and sound governments, but the majority are living the life Westerners lived over 500 years ago with corruption, war, disease, famine etc the daily norm.

[555-04Q2]

This thread needed a big cleaning sorry :)

Why :?:

[Daniel]

I'm no racist my friend. I used to provide free training schools for "previously disadvantaged" individuals (ie: black people) which I stopped as the people trained did nothing with the free skills that we taught them. Sad but true. I still do charity work though with Lions International for struggling poor families (90% are black, 5% white, 5% Indian & Chinese) as my civic duty.

Back to the point though. Africans are more interested in asking for a handout and less interested in doing something to improve their situation themselves. The only way that people on this continent are going to get off their backsides is for the West to stop pouring "aid" into Africa and rather tell us to get off our backsides and do it ourselves. This is why Africa will sadly not evolve the way the Western civilisations have.

As for people meddling in Africa, we have only ourselves to blame. Resourses are taken from Africa by Western companies, governments etc as Africa is either unwilling or unable to do it themselves. Look at China. They are building thousands of roads, schools, hospitals etc for several African countries in return for their resources. Why? Because the majority of Africa is too stupid to mine the resources themselves, sell it and build their own schools etc.

There are some successful countries such as South Africa, Namibia, Botswana etc with good infrastructure and sound governments, but the majority are living the life Westerners lived over 500 years ago with corruption, war, disease, famine etc the daily norm.

Amen to that.

Your posts might seem racist to some but what reasons do people have for Africa being the way it is now and certain places being war torn and ravaged by disease and famine when in comparison Asia and South America are doing a lot better for themselves? You only need to look at Asia to see that countries can be colonies yet can take care of themselves. Why is it that Africa is so screwed yet a lot of other countries elsewhere are doing well out of their resources? Answer that question and you'll see what people mean about Africa being doomed by its people.

[Camelopard]

Where has my latest post about successsful africans disapear and why?

Because Mr Walker has gone and spoilt it for everyone else, yet again.

He is incapable of of replying to a post without making derogatory comments about the poster. :p :



Quickly hides under the bed so that Pino doesn't find me............. :)

[Daniel]

Because Mr Walker has gone and spoilt it for everyone else, yet again.

He is incapable of of replying to a post without making derogatory comments about the poster. :p :



Quickly hides under the bed so that Pino doesn't find me............. :)
No guesses as to why Africa is such a mess? :)

[gadjo_dilo]

This thread needed a big cleaning sorry :)

Whaaaaat? I think you're making a confusion and I want to receive a PM with explanations about what bothered you. It didn't include any insult and it was about success as a notion and about africans of success in general. I didn't use any offensive word and I underlined that success is relative and different nationalities can't be judged after their successful members. You can't deny that a lot of forum members don't know anything about certain european countries and in this case you can't say that some nations are lazy just because they're not famous. If it was offensive I wonder what you think about those who called each other names.

No offence but I'd rather blame your weird attitude on the fact that you're italian and I have a rromany nickname. :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Amen to that.

Your posts might seem racist to some but what reasons do people have for Africa being the way it is now and certain places being war torn and ravaged by disease and famine when in comparison Asia and South America are doing a lot better for themselves? You only need to look at Asia to see that countries can be colonies yet can take care of themselves. Why is it that Africa is so screwed yet a lot of other countries elsewhere are doing well out of their resources? Answer that question and you'll see what people mean about Africa being doomed by its people.

I do not think it is racist to say it that way, though I am sure there are many deeper reasons and, as I know you appreciate fully, it is wrong to tar everyone with the same brush. I feel the same about Russia being doomed by its people to an extent.

[Daniel]

I do not think it is racist to say it that way, though I am sure there are many deeper reasons and, as I know you appreciate fully, it is wrong to tar everyone with the same brush. I feel the same about Russia being doomed by its people to an extent.

Then lets accept that some people are a little less articulate and able to put their point across :)

It's immensely frustrating to see Africa like this when they have so much natural wealth yet be so badly off as a whole.

Look at this list and the bottom 40 is mostly African countries. Just so frustrating for a continent which has so much in the way of resources.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

[Garry Walker]

Let's quit insults, and personal comments right now, or I will start to use the button-ban. Also any (stupid) racist comment will be deleted and punished with a month ban. Yes racism is stupid ! :mad:
No one in this thread has said anything racist, we have pointed out the problems that exist regarding africa. It is quite funny how people are so sensitive about that and regard everything negative said about africans as at once racist.


Because Mr Walker has gone and spoilt it for everyone else, yet again.

He is incapable of of replying to a post without making derogatory comments about the poster. :p :
I will point out that you and your little friend don key or whatever his name is, were the ones to start with insults and ruined the thread for others, but the reality is that it was just a little bit of friendly banter that has made certain people overreact, again. :)

[Camelopard]

No one in this thread has said anything racist, we have pointed out the problems that exist regarding africa. It is quite funny how people are so sensitive about that and regard everything negative said about africans as at once racist.

I will point out that you and your little friend don key or whatever his name is, were the ones to start with insults and ruined the thread for others, but the reality is that it was just a little bit of friendly banter that has made certain people overreact, again. :)

As usual you are wrong.............................. It's not the first time you have been pulled up for using racist language.


Thread almost cleaned and let's keep it that way. Garry, please loose the "Abo" from now on...thank you !

[Garry Walker]

As usual you are wrong.............................. It's not the first time you have been pulled up for using racist language.
And I will repeat again, no one in this thread has said anything racist, unless truth is racist.

So cry me a river with your abo stuff :)

[donKey jote]

your little friend don key or whatever his name is, were the ones to start with insults
I believe "obviously a cretin" started the insults :laugh: :laugh: :dozey:


And I will repeat again, no one in this thread has said anything racist, unless truth is racist.
So calling "africans" lazy and stupid, and then saying "blacks, mostly, btw american blacks too" isn't racist... OK, at the very least it's ignorant. That's a truth, not an insult. :dozey: