No more Michigan

[MDS]

http://www.mlive.com/sports/jackson/index.ssf/2009/02/mis_curtis_wheeling_out_some_d.html


There are no plans to bring the IRL to MIS.
"Right now, (the IRL) doesn't want to be here," Curtis said. "They made that pretty clear last year with the unacceptable race date they offered us, and since then they've reinforced that.
"We're moving on and focusing on our NASCAR events."
So, to review, a list of tracks the IRL has pissed off in the last two years:

Michigan International Speedway
Las Vegas Motorspeedway
New Hampshire Motorspeedway
Surfer's Paradise

To all of those who blame the CART guys for keeping the split going as long as they did, decisions like this are the reason why. The split was a huge vote of no confidence in Tony George, and 13 years later it looks more and more like the owners were right.

What is going on in the front office of the IRL? What is their five year plan? You can't build a series with one decently large event and a numer of satilite races in tiny markets like Iowa, Richomond, Sparta Kentucky and Mid-Ohio. How many more years of this can the sport survive?

Who is the new Dan Guery and when will he write his paper?

[SarahFan]

Ohio. How many more years of this can the sport survive?



according to Tony.... 3


he was quoted as saying if the IRL wasn't profitable by 2013 there wouldn't be a 2013......



of coarse with all the talk of the cost of staging a street race v. a permanent coarse....both being in the multi millions..... Tony wanted the owners of LVMS to erect a parking lot coarse....

[downtowndeco]

"Pissed off"? They couldn't come to terms. Both parties need to make a profit. Both parties need to have the event fit in and dovetail with other events already on their schedule.

The IRL is not in any sort of desperate situation where it needs to add events even if they lose money or don't fit in with the long term goals of the league.

You have no confidence in TG? I had no confidence in CART or CCWS. The list of bungled decisions, often based selfishly on what was best personally for individual team owners or promoters has been discussed before. The very fact that CC went out of business not just once, but twice, shows that they didn't know their *** from a hole in the ground. To hand the keys over to them would have been a sure disaster.





http://www.mlive.com/sports/jackson/index.ssf/2009/02/mis_curtis_wheeling_out_some_d.html

So, to review, a list of tracks the IRL has pissed off in the last two years:

Michigan International Speedway
Las Vegas Motorspeedway
New Hampshire Motorspeedway
Surfer's Paradise

To all of those who blame the CART guys for keeping the split going as long as they did, decisions like this are the reason why. The split was a huge vote of no confidence in Tony George, and 13 years later it looks more and more like the owners were right.

What is going on in the front office of the IRL? What is their five year plan? You can't build a series with one decently large event and a numer of satilite races in tiny markets like Iowa, Richomond, Sparta Kentucky and Mid-Ohio. How many more years of this can the sport survive?

Who is the new Dan Guery and when will he write his paper?

[MDS]

The IRL is not in any sort of desperate situation where it needs to add events even if they lose money or don't fit in with the long term goals of the league.

So what is the long term goal of the league?

Everything I've seen from Tony George in the last 13 years shows an attitude of Indy first, everything else third. With NASCAR you clearly get the impression they are focused on building their sport and rivaling the NFL. With the IRL you get the feeling that so long as the 500 gets fed 33 cars they don't seem to care about much else.

So, I ask you again, what is the long term goal?

[downtowndeco]

In no particular order and I'm sure there are a few more but...

Platform stability. Check.
Close, fair competition. Check.
Schedule diversity/stability. Check.
TV contract stability. Check.
Supporting the biggest OW race in the US. Check.



So what is the long term goal of the league?

Everything I've seen from Tony George in the last 13 years shows an attitude of Indy first, everything else third. With NASCAR you clearly get the impression they are focused on building their sport and rivaling the NFL. With the IRL you get the feeling that so long as the 500 gets fed 33 cars they don't seem to care about much else.

So, I ask you again, what is the long term goal?

[champcarray]

It's one thing to not be able to come to an agreement. It's quite another to create an impression like this:

"Right now, (the IRL) doesn't want to be here," Curtis said. "They made that pretty clear last year with the unacceptable race date they offered us, and since then they've reinforced that. We're moving on and focusing on our NASCAR events."

[downtowndeco]

It sounds like someone got thier feelings hurt. It's my impression that MIS tried to lowball the IRL & TG said, "Thanks but no thanks".


It's one thing to not be able to come to an agreement. It's quite another to create an impression like this:

"Right now, (the IRL) doesn't want to be here," Curtis said. "They made that pretty clear last year with the unacceptable race date they offered us, and since then they've reinforced that. We're moving on and focusing on our NASCAR events."

[DanicaFan]

Back in 2007 when I was up in Michigan during the weekend of the race, I spoke with some reps from the Michigan International Speedway. He advised me the reason they were not on the schedule in 2008 is because MIS and the IRL couldnt get the date conflict fixed between MIS and Mid-Ohio. They both wanted that date but they did not nor could not move the Mid-Ohio date.
I was hoping after last year that they could get the Michigan track back on the schedule for 2009 but it didnt happen. Maybe 2010.

[garyshell]

You can't build a series with one decently large event and a numer of satilite races in tiny markets like Iowa, Richomond, Sparta Kentucky and Mid-Ohio.

Sparta Kentucky is hardly in a tiny market. You might want to look on a map before you make that proclamation. It draws real well from Cincinnati, Lexington and Louisville. The guy who built the track did his homework on the old real estate adage location, location, location.

Gary

[MDS]

Sparta Kentucky is hardly in a tiny market. You might want to look on a map before you make that proclamation. It draws real well from Cincinnati, Lexington and Louisville. The guy who built the track did his homework on the old real estate adage location, location, location.

Gary

Yeah, that market is so strong only 50 percent of the people who had tickets to the "Sellout" last year showed up. Three B-league cities within driving distance does not change the fact that its still a third teir media market.

[downtowndeco]

Hey, I know. Why don't you start up a new OW series that races pretty much exclusively on street circuits? It's EASY. It's just what OWR needs here in the states.


Go back and read the statement from MIS without the biased glasses. It is a pretty bland, matter of fact statement. Tey couldn't agree on a date last year and they couldn't this year.




Feelings hurt? For a business entity to make a public comment like that was beyond hurt feelings. No rational person running a business EVER makes a "close the door" statement like that because you never know when things will change and you might want/need to do business with them.

[garyshell]

Yeah, that market is so strong only 50 percent of the people who had tickets to the "Sellout" last year showed up. Three B-league cities within driving distance does not change the fact that its still a third teir media market.

It was more than 50%. (I was there and am not going to get into THAT pissin' match again. I do agree it was NOT a sellout though.) But I am not sure how you consider it a third tier market when the NASCAR second string folks pack the place and they are looking at adding a "real" NASCAR race in the future.

Oh wait, it's a third tier place for the IRL. Or does that make it a third tier series at a first or second tier track? Sadly, I think we BOTH know the answer to that question.

As an aside, if you consider Cincinnati a "B-League" city. What constitutes "A-League"? And what would be a second tier MEDIA MARKET, in your eyes?

Gary

[garyshell]

Feelings hurt? For a business entity to make a public comment like that was beyond hurt feelings. No rational person running a business EVER makes a "close the door" statement like that because you never know when things will change and you might want/need to do business with them.


Hey, I know. Why don't you start up a new OW series that races pretty much exclusively on street circuits? It's EASY. It's just what OWR needs here in the states.


Go back and read the statement from MIS without the biased glasses. It is a pretty bland, matter of fact statement. Tey couldn't agree on a date last year and they couldn't this year.

How the hell do you get from Starter's discussion of the statement from the MIS folks to YOUR assumption that Starter wants an all road race series? That's a HUGE leap of logic. Well actually NO logic.

Can you please put away your continued rhetoric that assumes that EVERYONE who dares to say anything critical of your beloved, sacred, IRL is an anti IRL oval hater? It's wearing mighty thin.

Gary

[MDS]

As an aside, if you consider Cincinnati a "B-League" city. What constitutes "A-League"? And what would be a second tier MEDIA MARKET, in your eyes?

It's not my eyes, its marketing data. Any honest breakdown goes like this

Tier A
New York
Los Angeles

Tier B
Boston
Chicago
Philadephia
Miami
Atlanta
Houston
Dallas
Washington
SF Bay Area

The C tier is most of the rest of your NFL Cities with the exception of Green Bay. I did some checking of my numbers and Cinici, while a beautiful city to drive through on the interstate, at high speed, with the windows up and the doors locked, tends to average between 35 to 40 on the top 50 media markets.

To tie this back into my larger point, the IRL only races in four of the top 10 media markets, seven of the top 20 and 10 of the top 50. Companies look at things like that when deciding where to spend sponsorship dollars. Trust me when I say those are not good numbers.

Detriot, believe it or not is still a top 15 market. Also, those numbers are a little misleading because Toronto is a major market and probably has the second best demographcis of anywhere the IRL races, with Long Beach being the first.

[garyshell]

Fair enough. Out of curiosity, where do things rank when you combine Cincinnati, Louisville and Lexington? I ask because the track sits in all three markets and that is precisely WHY it sits where it does. So it would be an easy draw from all three.

Your snarky remarks about my fair city were duly noted. Unlock your doors and stop by sometime. You might find it is a hell of a lot safer than any of those on your "A" or "B" lists and a damn friendly place to boot.

Gary

[coogmaster]

according to Tony.... 3


he was quoted as saying if the IRL wasn't profitable by 2013 there wouldn't be a 2013......



Your (or anyone's) thoughts on what happens to the 500 if this is the case?

[Rex Monaco]

How the hell do you get from Starter's discussion of the statement from the MIS folks to YOUR assumption that Starter wants an all road race series?

You ARE talking about Downtowndeco right?? He always makes this leap.

[Rex Monaco]

OK, which of your posts would you prefer I use as a source for a quote? ;)

lol

[Easy Drifter]

Chicago a B grade? One of the largest cities in the US.
Toronto not even mentioned? What is it, the 3rd or 4th largest metro area (GTA) in North America? City proper about 3 million. GTA 6 million.
Anyway are we going to fight the lost war yet again?
It is over!!!!!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

It sounds like someone got thier feelings hurt. It's my impression that MIS tried to lowball the IRL & TG said, "Thanks but no thanks".


It would NEVER be the other way around would it? You might want to consider that.

It has been my observation that with two NASCAR events a year, MIS needs the IRL like a fish needs a bicycle. Why the IRL would not try to get something going here is still a bit of a mystery, although I will buy the argument the area is saturated with Chicagoland, Indy, Kentucky, Toronto and Mid Ohio all around 4 to 6 hours drive away.

I just wish Deco you would think before you start waving those Tony George Pom poms. We may agree we are all in the same boat, but the legitmate questions of where Tony is taking this series are going to be asked because until the IRL is showing legitimate and demonstrative signs of growth, we are going to question him. The fact he is running around telling everyone 2013 is his drop dead date p!sses me off. He broke it...he bought it...now run IT or sell it to someone who will do so.

[SarahFan]

In no particular order and I'm sure there are a few more but...

Platform stability. Check.
Close, fair competition. Check.
Schedule diversity/stability. Check.
TV contract stability. Check.
Supporting the biggest OW race in the US. Check.

Platform stability?.... the IRL engulfed Champcar less than twenty 12 months ago and turned 36 cars into 22

Close Fair competition?....spec series....limited manufacture support, Toyota paid to get out early

Schedule diversity and stability?...... Belle Isle just closed down shop... Milwaukee and Homestead are rummored gone next..... and lets not discuss the 9 ovals that are no longer on the schedule

TV Contract stability?..... it's new partner still has a 7 month old story as it's lead..... and didn't even add a 'indycar' link to it's main bar until prompted by non other than me

Supporting the biggest race in the US?..... of coarse that was suppossed to happen by a strong schedule of ovelcentricity.... we all know how well thats working

[Wade91]

http://www.mlive.com/sports/jackson/index.ssf/2009/02/mis_curtis_wheeling_out_some_d.html

So, to review, a list of tracks the IRL has pissed off in the last two years:

Michigan International Speedway
Las Vegas Motorspeedway
New Hampshire Motorspeedway
Surfer's Paradise

To all of those who blame the CART guys for keeping the split going as long as they did, decisions like this are the reason why. The split was a huge vote of no confidence in Tony George, and 13 years later it looks more and more like the owners were right.

What is going on in the front office of the IRL? What is their five year plan? You can't build a series with one decently large event and a numer of satilite races in tiny markets like Iowa, Richomond, Sparta Kentucky and Mid-Ohio. How many more years of this can the sport survive?

Who is the new Dan Guery and when will he write his paper?
AND they also dropped Nashville, which really sucks becouse i went to that race every year :(

[downtowndeco]

You know what? You are right. I made a mistake. I thought I was replying to MDS, not Starter. My fault. Starter has always been pretty even handed, even if we don't always see things the same way.

Now MDS...IMO he's one of the posters that is quick to find fault w/the IRL & TG & seems to think "All OW racing needs to return it to the glory days is to get rid of TG and add a few new street festivals."

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. But again, I pulled the trigger too quick & responded to the wrong poster.



QUOTE=garyshell;589104]How the hell do you get from Starter's discussion of the statement from the MIS folks to YOUR assumption that Starter wants an all road race series? That's a HUGE leap of logic. Well actually NO logic.

Can you please put away your continued rhetoric that assumes that EVERYONE who dares to say anything critical of your beloved, sacred, IRL is an anti IRL oval hater? It's wearing mighty thin.

Gary[/QUOTE]

[MDS]

Now MDS...IMO he's one of the posters that is quick to find fault w/the IRL & TG & seems to think "All OW racing needs to return it to the glory days is to get rid of TG and add a few new street festivals."

My biggest problem with Tony George is you can't really say open wheel is better because the IRL was founded. Someone on this thread brought up that the IRL's goal is to protect the most watched AOWR event in the county. Before the IRL was started it was the most watched motorsport event in the country, and arguably the world, now its ratings are less than your average NASCAR race.

I think returning, or surpassing, the glory days is going to take true vision, leadership, and hustle, and I don't think Tony George has any of those. Since the IRL has been in existance his marketing plan is to sit back and wait for his RJ Reynolds to come and do all the heavy lifting for him. I've been to Indy Headquarters several times to pitch various ideas I think would help the sport, and the answer always is: That's a great idea, go set it up for us and we might participate if it meets our standards.

[downtowndeco]

I'm not going to go round and round with you on things that have been dicussed before. Let's just say we see things in a different way.

That the IRL told you to come back when you had things a little more concrete might say more about your pitches/ideas than it does about their management skills.


My biggest problem with Tony George is you can't really say open wheel is better because the IRL was founded. Someone on this thread brought up that the IRL's goal is to protect the most watched AOWR event in the county. Before the IRL was started it was the most watched motorsport event in the country, and arguably the world, now its ratings are less than your average NASCAR race.

I think returning, or surpassing, the glory days is going to take true vision, leadership, and hustle, and I don't think Tony George has any of those. Since the IRL has been in existance his marketing plan is to sit back and wait for his RJ Reynolds to come and do all the heavy lifting for him. I've been to Indy Headquarters several times to pitch various ideas I think would help the sport, and the answer always is: That's a great idea, go set it up for us and we might participate if it meets our standards.

[millencolin]

In no particular order and I'm sure there are a few more but...

Platform stability. Check.
Close, fair competition. Check.
Schedule diversity/stability. Check.
TV contract stability. Check.
Supporting the biggest OW race in the US. Check.

Strong fan base and tv ratings. Che... oh wait, no no thats not right.