Petter Solberg WRT

[bluuford]

I would never have thought that it should come to this, but here goes: I am writing this in support of forumer N.O.T and the principle of freedom of expression on this forum.

I have seen that you have posted "official warnings" on two diffrent threads, pino. In my opinion this is very harsh, based on your subjective interpretation that N.O.T is "negative".

On a forum like this there must be accept for satire, irony and critisism, even heavy critisism. Sometimes satire can be (falsely) interpreted as "negative", but it isn`t always the case. Freedom of expression is a most important principle, and it has nothing to do whether other discussion participants is completely disagreeing with you or not. I myself disagree (sometimes completely) with N.O.T in most of his statements and caracteristics, but I do not find them especially offensive or offending. He has a different kind of humour than most other forumers, and it may be well and truly irritating when he is repeating his old jokes, but from time to time he is actually somewhere near being a bit funny, too!

What isn`t acceptable is of course personal abuse and blatant disrespect. It may seem that N.O.T is being close to disrespectful in his caracteristics of for instance Ken Block and Kimi Raikkkönen during the last days. Many of us find this highly annoying, but in principle I will say that as public performers and persons, Block, Raikkönen and others should accept this level of satire and critisism. They are not "attacked" with personal abuse, but they are critisised for being hyped up and/or slow rally drivers. This is the personal opinion of N.O.T, like it or not, but it is actually his right to express these opinions.

It may be that I should have started a thread on Forum Feedback instead of posting here, pino, but as you are posting your official warnings on an existing thread instead of sending a PM to N.O.T, I chose to post here.

Completely agree with Iskald. N.O.T. is the person who puts me thinking: "do I really believe what I am reading, do the writer wants me to belive what he writes, is it really true?" He is very often over sarcastic but he is very often right too.

[Leon]

I would never have thought that it should come to this, but here goes: I am writing this in support of forumer N.O.T and the principle of freedom of expression on this forum.

I have seen that you have posted "official warnings" on two diffrent threads, pino. In my opinion this is very harsh, based on your subjective interpretation that N.O.T is "negative".

On a forum like this there must be accept for satire, irony and critisism, even heavy critisism. Sometimes satire can be (falsely) interpreted as "negative", but it isn`t always the case. Freedom of expression is a most important principle, and it has nothing to do whether other discussion participants is completely disagreeing with you or not. I myself disagree (sometimes completely) with N.O.T in most of his statements and caracteristics, but I do not find them especially offensive or offending. He has a different kind of humour than most other forumers, and it may be well and truly irritating when he is repeating his old jokes, but from time to time he is actually somewhere near being a bit funny, too!

What isn`t acceptable is of course personal abuse and blatant disrespect. It may seem that N.O.T is being close to disrespectful in his caracteristics of for instance Ken Block and Kimi Raikkkönen during the last days. Many of us find this highly annoying, but in principle I will say that as public performers and persons, Block, Raikkönen and others should accept this level of satire and critisism. They are not "attacked" with personal abuse, but they are critisised for being hyped up and/or slow rally drivers. This is the personal opinion of N.O.T, like it or not, but it is actually his right to express these opinions.

It may be that I should have started a thread on Forum Feedback instead of posting here, pino, but as you are posting your official warnings on an existing thread instead of sending a PM to N.O.T, I chose to post here.

Me aggree too

[Rallyper]

I would never have thought that it should come to this, but here goes: I am writing this in support of forumer N.O.T and the principle of freedom of expression on this forum.

I have seen that you have posted "official warnings" on two diffrent threads, pino. In my opinion this is very harsh, based on your subjective interpretation that N.O.T is "negative".

On a forum like this there must be accept for satire, irony and critisism, even heavy critisism. Sometimes satire can be (falsely) interpreted as "negative", but it isn`t always the case. Freedom of expression is a most important principle, and it has nothing to do whether other discussion participants is completely disagreeing with you or not. I myself disagree (sometimes completely) with N.O.T in most of his statements and caracteristics, but I do not find them especially offensive or offending. He has a different kind of humour than most other forumers, and it may be well and truly irritating when he is repeating his old jokes, but from time to time he is actually somewhere near being a bit funny, too!

What isn`t acceptable is of course personal abuse and blatant disrespect. It may seem that N.O.T is being close to disrespectful in his caracteristics of for instance Ken Block and Kimi Raikkkönen during the last days. Many of us find this highly annoying, but in principle I will say that as public performers and persons, Block, Raikkönen and others should accept this level of satire and critisism. They are not "attacked" with personal abuse, but they are critisised for being hyped up and/or slow rally drivers. This is the personal opinion of N.O.T, like it or not, but it is actually his right to express these opinions.

It may be that I should have started a thread on Forum Feedback instead of posting here, pino, but as you are posting your official warnings on an existing thread instead of sending a PM to N.O.T, I chose to post here.

I disagree.

N.O.T. is an internet-troll. An internet-troll is a person who does like to irritate and more tha that other serious viewers and discussers on this forum

For me he doesn´t provide anything to this forum.

As I have written before to NOT I think he might be at womens forum with his gossip.

(Though I think NOT has a serious interest in international rallying a recommendation to him would be to calm down and comment the kind of way we could see in some of his quotes during this weekend)

[Fide]

I disagree.

N.O.T. is an internet-troll. An internet-troll is a person who does like to irritate and more tha that other serious viewers and discussers on this forum

For me he doesn´t provide anything to this forum.

As I have written before to NOT I think he might be at womens forum with his gossip.

(Though I think NOT has a serious interest in international rallying a recommendation to him would be to calm down and comment the kind of way we could see in some of his quotes during this weekend)

I do agree with you.

[Helstar]

Great great great performance by Petter, I wonder if he also has the same engine spec of Ogier ...

ps. The photo of NOT is present in the wikipedia section "internet troll" xD

[nr7wave]

Great great great performance by Petter, I wonder if he also has the same engine spec of Ogier ...



I don't know which engine Oigier have, but Petter has the old one. He will get the upgraded engine for Jordan.

[amilk]

I would never have thought that it should come to this, but here goes: I am writing this in support of forumer N.O.T and the principle of freedom of expression on this forum.

I have seen that you have posted "official warnings" on two diffrent threads, pino. In my opinion this is very harsh, based on your subjective interpretation that N.O.T is "negative".

On a forum like this there must be accept for satire, irony and critisism, even heavy critisism. Sometimes satire can be (falsely) interpreted as "negative", but it isn`t always the case. Freedom of expression is a most important principle, and it has nothing to do whether other discussion participants is completely disagreeing with you or not. I myself disagree (sometimes completely) with N.O.T in most of his statements and caracteristics, but I do not find them especially offensive or offending. He has a different kind of humour than most other forumers, and it may be well and truly irritating when he is repeating his old jokes, but from time to time he is actually somewhere near being a bit funny, too!

What isn`t acceptable is of course personal abuse and blatant disrespect. It may seem that N.O.T is being close to disrespectful in his caracteristics of for instance Ken Block and Kimi Raikkkönen during the last days. Many of us find this highly annoying, but in principle I will say that as public performers and persons, Block, Raikkönen and others should accept this level of satire and critisism. They are not "attacked" with personal abuse, but they are critisised for being hyped up and/or slow rally drivers. This is the personal opinion of N.O.T, like it or not, but it is actually his right to express these opinions.

It may be that I should have started a thread on Forum Feedback instead of posting here, pino, but as you are posting your official warnings on an existing thread instead of sending a PM to N.O.T, I chose to post here.


Agree, Sometimes N.O.T on the limit with his style, but at least he understand this sport and this is more important. Hopfully we will se him soon again here

[Mirek]

I also agree with Iskald. Don't get the (internet)life too seriously, folks ;)

[tmx]

I can see Petter really did lose weight, it seem his face looks gaunter than before.

[driveace]

congratulations Petter on the result,maybe he should get more thought from the works teams,as a tryer.And how many privateers can come 2nd in a WRC event.?

[Langdale Forest]

Really, he should be in the Citroën works team, but team orders would be a problem.

[alleskids]

Really, he should be in the Citroën works team, but team orders would be a problem.

Too bad that car sales marktet are more important than talent, and Norway is no important enough as a marktet for Citroen. I admire Ford for having 2 Fins just for their talent.

[Red bull]

congratulations Petter on the result,maybe he should get more thought from the works teams,as a tryer.And how many privateers can come 2nd in a WRC event.?
Loeb won as a privateer with kronos citroen beating the factory fords and subarus.

[Viking]

Loeb won as a privateer with kronos citroen beating the factory fords and subarus.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[cali]

Loeb won as a privateer with kronos citroen beating the factory fords and subarus.

Do You believe that he had private Citroen?? :D

[Fide]

Loeb won as a privateer with kronos citroen beating the factory fords and subarus.

Are you seriously convinced Kronos was privateer ??????????????????

[Pinto]

oh yea it sure was a private job what world is red bull living in that was a full works job in all but name

[serial jeff]

I would never have thought that it should come to this, but here goes: I am writing this in support of forumer N.O.T and the principle of freedom of expression on this forum.

There's a difference between "freedom of expression" and just filling up useful threads with garbage posts.

Anyway, back on the topic of the thread- impressive result by Petter. Maybe tactics at the end of day 1 would have let him fight for the win, but I suspect Petter was just so happy to finally be in the lead at the end of a day (it's been a long time since that happened) that he didnt want to give it up to play tactics.

As he said at the end of day1, "I'm here to drive as fast as possible, and we will see the results at the end... I'm not here for playing"

[Iskald]

There's a difference between "freedom of expression" and just filling up useful threads with garbage posts.


You are totally wrong. The principle of freedom of expression definitely also include the freedom of writing "garbage posts". Freedom of expression has in fact - also judicially - very few boundaries. The opposite of freedom of expression is sensorship. Do we want that? No, I didn`t think so...

[serial jeff]

The opposite of freedom of expression is sensorship. Do we want that? No, I didn`t think so...

Sure, a little censorship is fine. This is just an internet forum, we're not debating matters of great moral importance. I want to be able to read the News & Rumors thread without every second post either being some inane/inciting comment, or a quoting response to that post.

[mjh]

Freedom of expression is not an inalienable right. It is conferred upon an individual by the community they are part of, and it comes with the responsibility to use that freedom within the rules defined by that community. If not you can expect the freedom to be withdrawn.
Pino is right on the money here, NOT is causing more harm to this forum than good and he needs to be told that.

[mjh]

I'd never really been a Petter fan - as I came 'back' to rallying in 2007 having not been to a rally for over 10years he appeared to be 'all mouth and no trousers'!
But seeing how hard he has worked personally to get PSWRT off the ground after Subaru pulled the plug has given me a huge amount of respect for him. The pressure on him at the start of this season has obviously been huge and to get on the podium at Mexico was the least he deserved. Seeing him elated and in tears at the end of the last SSS was really heart warming, even my wife who has no interest in rallying felt for him.

It would be great if he could challenge the top runners throughout the rest of this year, I for one will be cheering him on from now on.

[grugsticles]

I'd never really been a Petter fan - as I came 'back' to rallying in 2007 having not been to a rally for over 10years he appeared to be 'all mouth and no trousers'!
But seeing how hard he has worked personally to get PSWRT off the ground after Subaru pulled the plug has given me a huge amount of respect for him. The pressure on him at the start of this season has obviously been huge and to get on the podium at Mexico was the least he deserved. Seeing him elated and in tears at the end of the last SSS was really heart warming, even my wife who has no interest in rallying felt for him.

It would be great if he could challenge the top runners throughout the rest of this year, I for one will be cheering him on from now on.
Amen.

Its remarkable what you can do if you have a goal and give your all to archive it, even with everyone in your face.

[HaCo]

Good post mjh and agree!

[Helstar]

I hope Petter will be able to show in the next rally that even without tactics one can win...

Ps. It's so amusing to see somebody claiming "freedom of expression for everybody, even if garbage" when last year in another thread he attacked me for a garbage post (it wasn't actually, but let's assume that) and cried to moderators that he would leave the forum if I wouldn't have penalty points...

[Red bull]

oh yea it sure was a private job what world is red bull living in that was a full works job in all but name
you mean it was citroen in disguise as kronos,then now i can get a clear picture PETER SOLBERG CITROEN SPORT RALLY TEAM
:s mokin:

[Red bull]

you mean it was citroen in disguise as kronos,then now i can get a clear picture PETER SOLBERG CITROEN SPORT RALLY TEAM
:s mokin:
if you may plse correct me in which category does kronos fall,a factory wrc team or a private wrc team :confused:

[cali]

if you may plse correct me in which category does kronos fall,a factory wrc team or a private wrc team :confused:

In that year Kronos was heavily factory supported team (read: practically factory team).

[alleskids]

Loeb's kronos car was fully factory serviced under the banner of Kronos, while Xavier Pons and Dani Sordo were really privateers.

Citroen Sport was develloping the C4 WRC, and was officialy out of the WRC, giving all their material to Kronos racing. But Citroen Sport serviced Loeb's Xsara and was still develloping parts for the Xsara. Sordo's and Pons'car were serviced by kronos, while Citoren engineers had a lot do to with Loeb's car. Kronos Racing's staff room looked exact the same as Citroen Sport's staff room during the rallies, except for blue shirts instead of red ones.

[Red bull]

:cool: o

[Red bull]

now thats crystal clear :o thanks for the imfo and hope citroen dont do the same trick with solberg rally team it will be cheating :mad:

[Langdale Forest]

Agree, Sometimes N.O.T on the limit with his style, but at least he understand this sport and this is more important. Hopfully we will se him soon again here

I hope he returns, because sometimes he made me laugh! ;)

[tmx]

now thats crystal clear :o thanks for the imfo and hope citroen dont do the same trick with solberg rally team it will be cheating :mad: Sebastian Loeb does not compete in the Petter Solberg team, which is a private run team.

[Red bull]

i mean citroen might have some influence on his team as hes the only privateer with a 2009 spec c4 and still needs parts and tech from them to keep updated on latest devolopment of the car.

[Langdale Forest]

But if Citroen keeps giving him the latest development, he will be liable to unfair team orders.

[Red bull]

yes thats true its kind of a tactic to keep the fords off the podium,remember the citroen team boss said he would prefer a citroen 1234,i dont think kimi was one of them it was solberg.

[Langdale Forest]

If Citroen ever make Solberg slow down this year, I will call Quesnel 'unsporting' and 'greedy', because Loeb has already won the championship 6 years in a row, and Solberg has not won a rally since 2005.

[nr7wave]

In an article in a norwegian newspaper today, it's said that Petter has bought one more C4. This is a 2009 model with more horsepower, revised data and electronics. The C4 he has been driving in the two first rallys this year is a 2008 model. The new car will be ready for Jordan :)
He also has bought a new team-truck which previously has been in the Renault F1-team. The new truck is bought outside of the team budget, with Petters own money.

Link to the article: http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/03/19/sport/motorsport/rally/petter_solberg/10920907/

I'm really looking forward to Jordan! It will be exiting to see if Petter can get his first win of the season here...

[PJRevs]

Great news I can wait to see Petters performance on Jordan Rally

[Halvis]

Great news, but to think he is on a completely levelled field with the manu cars (read Loeb) is naive. Citroen: about 200 people involved, PSRT: 20 people. Budget, well you can imagine the differences yourself.

Petter winning an event without Seb having problems is very, very unlikely. I would have loved it, though :)

[cali]

Great news, but to think he is on a completely levelled field with the manu cars (read Loeb) is naive. Citroen: about 200 people involved, PSRT: 20 people. Budget, well you can imagine the differences yourself.

Petter winning an event without Seb having problems is very, very unlikely. I would have loved it, though :)

But You have to admit that the result in Mexico was very-very positive, almost a win in my eyes. Hope that Petter is on it in the next races, it will be interesting to follow from now on ...

[Donney]

You have to be on Petter's side after all the effort and money he is putting into the team, I so much want him to win a couple of rallies this year.

[bretddog]

It's not only about winning.. but about having "some good fun" :D

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4356/1stn2ndplace.jpg

[cut the b.s.]

But You have to admit that the result in Mexico was very-very positive, almost a win in my eyes. Hope that Petter is on it in the next races, it will be interesting to follow from now on ...

I think it was a very negative result! It showed that Petter is a Citroen puppet

[Fide]

I think it was a very negative result! It showed that Petter is a Citroen puppet

Come on !!!!!!!!!! are you kidding ????????????????

[Langdale Forest]

I think it was a very negative result! It showed that Petter is a Citroen puppet


How nagative can you be? :rolleyes:
Solberg had a good drive in Mexico and deserved 2nd place.

[cut the b.s.]

Come on !!!!!!!!!! are you kidding ????????????????

Not at all, he had a great drive but if he was driving to win he would have dropped back on friday

[cut the b.s.]

How nagative can you be? :rolleyes:
Solberg had a good drive in Mexico and deserved 2nd place.

Negative is the word you were trying for. realistic is the word I would choose, see my post above :)

[Donney]

Not at all, he had a great drive but if he was driving to win he would have dropped back on friday

Had he dropped on Friday he would not have made it to the news or newspapers and he, not being anyone's puppet but money's, really needs the good publicity.

[Red bull]

yes he better be his own man accepting no tactics 4rm citroen boss,only a win will prove he makes own decisions.

[Iskald]

,only a win will prove he makes own decisions.

Great logic!!! I`m really impressed. :rolleyes:

[Red bull]

In an article in a norwegian newspaper today, it's said that Petter has bought one more C4. This is a 2009 model with more horsepower, revised data and electronics. The C4 he has been driving in the two first rallys this year is a 2008 model. The new car will be ready for Jordan :)
He also has bought a new team-truck which previously has been in the Renault F1-team. The new truck is bought outside of the team budget, with Petters own money.

Link to the article: http://www.dagbladet.no/2010/03/19/sport/motorsport/rally/petter_solberg/10920907/

I'm really looking forward to Jordan! It will be exiting to see if Petter can get his first win of the season here...
and finally citroen have delivered on their promise,hold back on friday and we ll sell to u zee latest spec car :eek: :eek: :D

[Langdale Forest]

Engine upgrade for Solberg in Mexico. :)

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7269&desc=Petter's%20one%20to%20watch%20out%20for,%20sa ys%20Hirvonen

Could this be a win? :D :bounce:

[Fide]

Engine upgrade for Solberg in Mexico. :)

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7269&desc=Petter's%20one%20to%20watch%20out%20for,%20sa ys%20Hirvonen (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7269&desc=Petter%27s%20one%20to%20watch%20out%20for,%20 says%20Hirvonen)

Could this be a win? :D :bounce:


Great News !!!!!!! Hope a really fabulous W-E for Petter !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :s mokin:

[Viking]

Engine upgrade for Solberg in Mexico. :)

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7269&desc=Petter's%20one%20to%20watch%20out%20for,%20sa ys%20Hirvonen

Could this be a win? :D :bounce:

Ehh... Jordan ;)

[Langdale Forest]

A good road position should help Solberg on the opening day of Rally Turkey. :)

[6789]

A good road position should help Solberg on the opening day of Rally Turkey. :)
Hopefully he can be competive throughout the whole weekend and he should be in with a good chance for a win. the two runs through that Jordan River stage cost him last weekend

[Xsara Fan]

Hopefully he can be competive throughout the whole weekend and he should be in with a good chance for a win. the two runs through that Jordan River stage cost him last weekend

...even in very good road position!

[Langdale Forest]

Petter needs more money...

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7588&desc=Solberg+needs+more+funds+to+win+again

[jonas_mcrae]

what ever people say, but I think Petter has more chances than Mikko of getting closer to loeb in the following rallies. FWRT is a mess right now

[Fide]

Petter needs more money...

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=7588&desc=Solberg+needs+more+funds+to+win+again

I think his statement is very understandable, he is in a very delicated balance between a good performance to do not dissapoint his sponsors (and three podiums really are) and to take more risks with his car. It is a pity since I strongly believe he still has the magic touch able to beat Sebastian and also better than Mikko and the other top flight guys.

[LadySnowcat]

And he is great fun....

[RS]

It is quite amusing reading some of the comments earlier on this thread given Petter's recent run of excellent performances ;)

Really nice to see a genuine privateer doing the business.

[Barreis]

With BIG expenses..

[Alpha]

It is quite amusing reading some of the comments earlier on this thread given Petter's recent run of excellent performances ;)

Really nice to see a genuine privateer doing the business.

Yeah,

N.O.T: "I think he would be better off in the armchair of his house. and suits his driving style as well so its double the benefit for everyone..."

Tomi: "... Its better to face the facts, petters carreer is about to come to an end.
In norway it would be clever maybe to invest the limited sponsor money on new talent ..."

janvanvurpa: "Petter is just too old."

N.O.T: "these changes peter does to his cars at least keeps the "new car" favourite excuse he uses all the time...how many rallies now he needs in the focus ?? 1-3-5-10-12 ?." <-- No, he needed just one, Rally Sweden, since then he has been on the podium in every rally.

N.O.T: "Cool he can join the HAS BEEN club now....it has a lot of memebrs you know"

N.O.T: "Mr Solberg should stop living in his own universe and realise that if he was good enough he would be chosen by a manufacturer....now that he is a HAS BEEN with no future or present in the sport he has to realise that he cannot get the same equipment for free..."

Tomi: "Feels a bit like a déjà vu, Petter comes out with big noise about his car and his chances, his fans gets carried away big time, it will be interesting to see, if it again this year will end up with mega crying, how unfair the world is."

Brother John: "It is about time that he will stop driving rallys.
He can be team leader from his team and give his car seat to a young driver and make money in the future!"


Guess there is just one thing to say, and this quote comes from one of the greatest WRC-drivers: "Up yours!"

[N.O.T]

yes yes yes i guess i underestimated him by longshot to be honest but again he still cannot win rallies by driving as most recent results show...and we have yet to see his position when both citroen and ford official drivers finish a rally without problems....but as i said he cleary did far better than i presumed so respect to him.

[Tomi]

Tomi: "... Its better to face the facts, petters carreer is about to come to an end.
In norway it would be clever maybe to invest the limited sponsor money on new talent ..."

Tomi: "Feels a bit like a déjà vu, Petter comes out with big noise about his car and his chances, his fans gets carried away big time, it will be interesting to see, if it again this year will end up with mega crying, how unfair the world is."

The first quote is still valid, about the second one, lets wait and see a few rallies.

[janvanvurpa]

Yeah,

[

janvanvurpa: "Petter is just too old."


Guess there is just one thing to say, and this quote comes from one of the greatest WRC-drivers: "Up yours!"


It is a shame that the extreme sarcasm and parody of voice reflecting my rejection of the current trend in getting children of the "right" marketing demographic, that is to say 19-24 year old into WRC car so that the children view can worship them failed to be understood, and that your selective quoting missed the compliments to Sohlberg for getting off his ass and spending some of his own money and own personal efforts to secure a deal which he's doing fantastically with and in huge contrast to other well know supposed heroes who couldn't be troubled once they lost their rides did NOTHING, specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

I will presume your selective quoting was from laziness and sloth and poor reading ability rather than a serious attempt to make a point misunderstanding what was obviously implied.

[Alpha]

yes yes yes i guess i underestimated him by longshot to be honest but again he still cannot win rallies by driving as most recent results show...and we have yet to see his position when both citroen and ford official drivers finish a rally without problems....but as i said he cleary did far better than i presumed so respect to him.
The small off Petter had on sunday could just as well have been Loebs small off and then Petter would be on top. Setting the times and results he does with the amount of cash behind him is incredible and as far as I am concerned a much bigger achievement than Loebs first places.



The first quote is still valid, about the second one, lets wait and see a few rallies.

That can be said about lots of drivers... Loeb is 36, holy ****, why didn't anyone kick him out years ago?! Spend money on the 18-24 year olds!


As for janvanvurpa - I couldn't be bothered to check the context, just browsed quickly through the last pages, sorry if I didn't catch your sarcasm.

[Jake Stephens]

It is a shame that the extreme sarcasm and parody of voice reflecting my rejection of the current trend in getting children of the "right" marketing demographic, that is to say 19-24 year old into WRC car so that the children view can worship them failed to be understood, and that your selective quoting missed the compliments to Sohlberg for getting off his ass and spending some of his own money and own personal efforts to secure a deal which he's doing fantastically with and in huge contrast to other well know supposed heroes who couldn't be troubled once they lost their rides did NOTHING, specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

I will presume your selective quoting was from laziness and sloth and poor reading ability rather than a serious attempt to make a point misunderstanding what was obviously implied.
I would say that you are a sad individual for saying that about Colin, his family and friends but you just want to provoke people. Shameful comment.

[N.O.T]

reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)


do you have information that was colin to blame for the accident ?? i never heard anything about the causes....But again thats a low blow.

as for alpha its not the age that matters but the ability to win for someones reason to retire...and its a long way to the end of the championship to make conclusions about solberg...i mean what if he crashes or underperforms in the next events ? you can never be sure about rallying at this level. after all he is second with both hirvonen and latvala having some major problems so i think speedwise he is not faster than them and probably a bit slower than sordo and ogier as well....especially on gravel where its all about tactics....but as i said he is doing far better than expected but still all questions haven;t been answered yet after just 4 rounds and with the tarmac rallies still ahead.

[JFL]

http://www.nes-sledeverksted.no/img/KN10%20m.Birger%20XS.jpg
:D

[Tomi]

That can be said about lots of drivers... Loeb is 36, holy ****, why didn't anyone kick him out years ago?! Spend money on the 18-24 year olds!

Loeb is payed by Citroen, but its only an opinion, maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle.

[janvanvurpa]

I would say that you are a sad individual for saying that about Colin, his family and friends but you just want to provoke people. Shameful comment.


No, the initial reports were confirmed by the offcial inquiry which in the typical British way of extreme understatement said that he was doing arobatics and aggressive maneuvering at low altitude, and in "deteriorating weather" conditions and that further he was not qualified in that specific helicopter and that there was nothing indicating any mechanical fault.
Just like he crashed countless times in rally cars---and always ready to blame the engineers, mechanics and his co-drivers, the crash which killed his son, his neighbor and the other kid was his doing.

I've driven a few miles on stages, and spent 20 years crashing my moto-cross bike on 4 continents and a dozen countries---in fact in the last year I've had 2 operations on my spine and 5 weeks ago got a new knee to replace the one ripped up over ther years, I take responibilty for what i did on my bike and in my rally car, and my co-drivers understand we can flip and there are risks.

Hotdogging in a helicopter is risky, and the proof that he was out of control is as simple as looking at the charred pile of burnt wreckage that was left---(in other words, the helicopter did not crash itself).
It was a tragedy but a completely unnecessary tragedy.

Suggesting otherwise from some idol worship is to spit on the graves of 2 young children and his neighbor---does your silly idealization go that far?
You ignoring their pointless deaths is worse than sad, its disgusting, and when it's done from some fan-boy sentim,ents it is atrocious.

The POINT is that Colin, when he priced himself out of the range anybody would pay for his services, and burned every bridge behind him, parked his butt and quit, and Petter has not.

Petter's "Hollywood" schtick is not to my taste, but I admire his determination, he's out there doing damn good while Atko pouts and pisses away critical years.

[janvanvurpa]

The small off Petter had on sunday could just as well have been Loebs small off and then Petter would be on top. Setting the times and results he does with the amount of cash behind him is incredible and as far as I am concerned a much bigger achievement than Loebs first places.




That can be said about lots of drivers... Loeb is 36, holy ****, why didn't anyone kick him out years ago?! Spend money on the 18-24 year olds!


As for janvanvurpa - I couldn't be bothered to check the context, just browsed quickly through the last pages, sorry if I didn't catch your sarcasm.

That's OK, tone of voice doesn't carry too well. I just wanted to set the record straight that I think the obvious rather newish trend of putting 18-20 year olds in WRC cars and waiting for them to maybe learn their craft like Latvala, Hirvonen, Wilson etc is something we hadn't seen in decades past.
It seemed presumed that it takes some X number of years to accumulate routine, and experience and just plain seat-time and it didn't seem to be some detriment if a driver was 28 or 35, if he made results.

Now it seems as important that he is pretty, and young and "photogenic", and of course if he can bring truckloads of bundled up bank notes, then he can be an instant M2 driver.

It seems a farce.

[Alpha]

I agree, it's parts of whats wrong with the WRC the latest years. An excellent driver like P. Solberg had to pay for his own team and car? That's just plain crazy.

[Maui J.]

... specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)


Wow! That's a bit harsh. So much for RIP.

It was a tragedy for the families involved, showing off or not, I don't believe that kind of statement is necessary.
You don't know who reads this forum, possibly McRae family members.
Take it easy.

Seems like this forum is an outlet of stored up anger sometimes.

As for the PSWRT, bloody fantastic stuff. Full credit to anyone who can put together their own team like that, and get podiums to boot. A+ effort.

[janvanvurpa]

Wow! That's a bit harsh. So much for RIP.

It was a tragedy for the families involved, showing off or not, I don't believe that kind of statement is necessary.
You don't know who reads this forum, possibly McRae family members.
Take it easy.

Seems like this forum is an outlet of stored up anger sometimes.

As for the PSWRT, bloody fantastic stuff. Full credit to anyone who can put together their own team like that, and get podiums to boot. A+ effort.

Death of children is harsher than anything I can say.
I have had friends killed and maimed in motosport and it is bad for everybody but it was at their own hands doing things they knew was potentially very risky.
I have also had friends and close acquaintances killed by the recklessness of others and that is not something I accept with a shrug...

And, it is not anger, rather a cold hard feeling.

Maybe it's because I now have lovely beautiful children that his killing a couple of kids makes me speak so.

Whatever the case what's done is done and the REAL point, which was clear is how even though he famously said "I'd do this for nothin" when he could get a ride, he turned his back and played with a insane wicked spec Escort and a 6R4.

Like most i was fed up with Petters constant complaining about the wretchedness of the works Subarus and while I understand loyalty both personal and professional, it must have been unbearable and make him a little crazy to know in his heart he KNOWS HOW TO go like satans fan but the car was so bad.

I wonder if he's kicking himself knowing how much time he lost being loyal.

Lycka till i framtiden is all I can say.

[ridder]

Turkey imo was the first rally that showed Solberg can actually even think about defeating Loeb. 16 seconds behind him going into final day, when Loeb is expected to loose because of sweeping is certainly not a bad position... then rain and canceled stages came. Still the best starting point anyone had against Loeb on final day on gravel this year.


...its a long way to the end of the championship to make conclusions about solberg...i mean what if he crashes or underperforms in the next events ? you can never be sure about rallying at this level. after all he is second with both hirvonen and latvala having some major problems so i think speedwise he is not faster than them and probably a bit slower than sordo and ogier as well....especially on gravel where its all about tactics....but as i said he is doing far better than expected but still all questions haven;t been answered yet after just 4 rounds and with the tarmac rallies still ahead.

Yes Petter is "only" second close to Hirvonen and Latvala who had problems, what about Sweden then? I kinda noticed Petter had quite a few problems as well, like 2 crashes.

"Speedwise he's not faster"
- against Hirvonen he has been ahead of him at every rally, even those where Mikko crashed
- against Latvala he was ahead in Mexico and Turkey, same pace in Jordan
- against Sordo - ahead of him at every rally, beating him on final day in Jordan and Turkey
- against Ogier - beating him from worse road position in Mexico, about same in Jordan, in Turkey Ogier got puncture just as Solberg was about to overtake him

Let's look at stage wins, which kinda should say something about speed no?

Loeb - 31
Solberg - 17
Ogier - 12
Latvala - 10
Hirvonen - 9
Sordo - 3

Everyone there except Loeb and Ogier had at least one rally where they had trouble. Solberg - Sweden, Latvala - Mexico, Hirvonen - Mexico+Jordan, Sordo - Mexico

Tarmac rallies, hard to say yes, only comparison is Spain last year, Solberg in first rally in C4 was 4th comfortably ahead of Ogier and Latvala. He has never been one of the fastest on tarmac, this year with new car I expect him between 3-5th (ahead of Latvala, fighting with Hirvonen and Ogier).

That you "think" Solberg is speedwise the slowest of them all is no surprise and nobody can take that from you, doesn't change the results though.

[RS]

Loeb is payed by Citroen, but its only an opinion, maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle.

Yes but sponsors aren't in it for the sake of driver development are they? They want to get the best return on their investment possible and that is more likely to come with Petter. I would guess that they are pretty happy with the return they have had so far this year.

The better scenario would be that Petter would be in a paid factory seat then the Norwegian sponsors could then support the up-coming drivers.

[noel157]

It is a shame that the extreme sarcasm and parody of voice reflecting my rejection of the current trend in getting children of the "right" marketing demographic, that is to say 19-24 year old into WRC car so that the children view can worship them failed to be understood, and that your selective quoting missed the compliments to Sohlberg for getting off his ass and spending some of his own money and own personal efforts to secure a deal which he's doing fantastically with and in huge contrast to other well know supposed heroes who couldn't be troubled once they lost their rides did NOTHING, specifically the much overrated rich boy Atkinson and the reckless killer of 3 Colin "Crash" McRae. (may he rot in hell for killing his son, the other kid and his neighbor showing off and hotdogging)

I will presume your selective quoting was from laziness and sloth and poor reading ability rather than a serious attempt to make a point misunderstanding what was obviously implied.

Disgraceful comments, shame on you.

[Tomi]

Yes but sponsors aren't in it for the sake of driver development are they? They want to get the best return on their investment possible and that is more likely to come with Petter. I would guess that they are pretty happy with the return they have had so far this year.

The better scenario would be that Petter would be in a paid factory seat then the Norwegian sponsors could then support the up-coming drivers.

Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.
Scenarios dont help much, if they are not scenarios but wish thinking.
Many people have had simular scenarios you talk about for years now, but it seems not to happen, when a team nowdays sign a driver its a kind of investment for future.

[JFL]

Tarmac rallies, hard to say yes, only comparison is Spain last year, Solberg in first rally in C4 was 4th comfortably ahead of Ogier and Latvala. He has never been one of the fastest on tarmac, this year with new car I expect him between 3-5th (ahead of Latvala, fighting with Hirvonen and Ogier).

That you "think" Solberg is speedwise the slowest of them all is no surprise and nobody can take that from you, doesn't change the results though.

Petter loves tarmac rallies, one of his favourites actually. The years in Subaru he did'nt do well on tarmac exept when it was raining.. First time out in a new car(C4 last year) he's on the pace.. Go figure.. I think he will surprise many people there also.... As a "has been" I mean... ;)

[Alpha]

Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.
Scenarios dont help much, if they are not scenarios but wish thinking.
Many people have had simular scenarios you talk about for years now, but it seems not to happen, when a team nowdays sign a driver its a kind of investment for future.

Without the Solberg brothers noone in Norway would care about rallying and sponsors on a national level like the ones Petter & Henning have pulled out would have invested in something totally different. In periods where Petter has underperformed or rallies where he hasn't started no Norwegian national media even mentioned the WRC.
No "up and coming" driver would stand a chance without the Solberg brothers and if they both retire tomorrow all new driver would be sh*t out of luck.

If you're gonna bitch about someones age, bitch about Grönholm, he's 42 and still out there blocking the way for other up and coming finnish drivers...

Petter's bang on the pace of the very fastest rally drivers in the world, and very well could be for the next couple of years. Too old? Hell no.

[Tomi]

If you're gonna bitch about someones age, bitch about Grönholm, he's 42 and still out there blocking the way for other up and coming finnish drivers...

Im not bitching about someones age, who's carreer has Grönholm been blocking and in what way, maybe you can explain, so I get a good laugh?

[J.Lindstroem]

Im not bitching about someones age, who's carreer has Grönholm been blocking and in what way, maybe you can explain, so I get a good laugh?

Matti Nykänens!

[N.O.T]

Gronholm blocking someones career? how ?

[J.Lindstroem]

I fail to come up with a career he has blocked... I doubt that there is any one else who would drive Rantanens private Focus if Gronhom stepped aside.

[Alpha]

Tomi: "... Its better to face the facts, petters carreer is about to come to an end. In norway it would be clever maybe to invest the limited sponsor money on new talent ..."

Tomi: "Feels a bit like a déjà vu, Petter comes out with big noise about his car and his chances, his fans gets carried away big time, it will be interesting to see, if it again this year will end up with mega crying, how unfair the world is."

The first quote is still valid, about the second one, lets wait and see a few rallies.

"... maybe it is best for norwegian rally to continiue sponsoring petter, at the same time the new possible future drivers struggle. ..."


If Petter is so old, and standing in the way for money getting to younger drivers then surely that must be even worse for Grönholm which is 42. Or the same for Loeb, which is Petters age.
I just find the entire argument silly. If they're fast in a rallycar, let them drive! Age shouldn't play a role at all.

[Tomi]

I fail to come up with a career he has blocked... I doubt that there is any one else who would drive Rantanens private Focus if Gronhom stepped aside.

Thats only because he is too busy teaching norwegians how to drive and set up cars.

[Viking]

Thats only because he is too busy teaching norwegians how to drive and set up cars.

let's hope he will be successful at it :)

[N.O.T]

If Petter is so old, and standing in the way for money getting to younger drivers then surely that must be even worse for Grönholm which is 42. Or the same for Loeb, which is Petters age.
I just find the entire argument silly. If they're fast in a rallycar, let them drive! Age shouldn't play a role at all.

whose career gronholm blocks by participating in 3 events over 2 years time?

[Alpha]

whose career gronholm blocks by participating in 3 events over 2 years time?

I don't think he does, that was Tomi's line of reasoning. That the money put into his entry at Rally Sweden could be used to give an up and coming young finnish driver a chance?

[RS]

Sure in short term they get more value from petter, but in the long run not. Can be that with a bunch of crying brittons we soon have a bunch of crying norwegians joining the choir aswell, wondering why this or this other driver is not choosen for a factory car.
What i mean is very simple, i think its more important so see that there is someone ready to take over when petters carreer ends, thats not so far away, instead of trying to extend something that will happen very soon anyway.


Well, it's a nice idea from a driver development point of view but it still doesn't make commercial sense.

And anyhow I thought that you did not really rate the upcoming Norwegian talent, or is it just that you like winding up the Norwegians on this forum?

[Tomi]

Well, it's a nice idea from a driver development point of view but it still doesn't make commercial sense.

And anyhow I thought that you did not really rate the upcoming Norwegian talent, or is it just that you like winding up the Norwegians on this forum?

Dont think too much you can get headache, i rate them the same i rate the other youngsters, the reality only is that from all those youngsters only a very few ends up as works drivers, thats why its important that they are present where the happening is much as possible, that rises their possibilities.

P.S. I dont hate anybody, but what i hate is the hype about someone who actually has done nothing.

[Barreis]

Works drivers should come ONLY from JWRC..

[Tomi]

That the money put into his entry at Rally Sweden could be used to give an up and coming young finnish driver a chance?

No reason to worry about that, everyone who deserves will get their chance.

[Langdale Forest]

Works drivers should come ONLY from JWRC..

But that rule would be stupid because people like Malcolm Wilson would still put his son in a WRC car.

BTW, Petter Solberg did not come from the JWRC.

[Viking]

but what i hate is the hype about someone who actually has done nothing.

So who is this then? And when have you done "something"?

[serial jeff]

I think the presence of ex-champions in the WRC is not a problem. Newcomers should earn their way into the WRC by proven speed. Petter, Seb, Burns, etc all made their way into the WRC by dominating local/smaller championships.

Maybe it's the attitude of giving WRC cars to young unproven drivers that's given us Wilson, Rautenbach and Novikov. I wouldn't mind if it was a rule that a driver can compete in the WRC only if he has won another FIA sanctioned rally championship, be it JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, IRC, or any remotely competitive national championship.

But I think having more competing cars is the most important step. Hopefully next year with the new specification there will be more manufacturers, more cars, and more competition.

[Tomi]

So who is this then? And when have you done "something"?

No particular driver, there is too many to pick someone out, what do you mean when have i done "something" ?

[Viking]

No particular driver, there is too many to pick someone out, what do you mean when have i done "something" ?

Not you Tomi :) , only wondering when you mean a driver has achieved something, as in opposite of nothing.

[Tomi]

Not you Tomi :) , only wondering when you mean a driver has achieved something, as in opposite of nothing.

I think all serious young drivers aim is a works car in WRC, after they get that they have achived their first goal, and done something, after that its up to them self how far they will go.

[Alpha]

I think the presence of ex-champions in the WRC is not a problem. Newcomers should earn their way into the WRC by proven speed. Petter, Seb, Burns, etc all made their way into the WRC by dominating local/smaller championships.

Maybe it's the attitude of giving WRC cars to young unproven drivers that's given us Wilson, Rautenbach and Novikov. I wouldn't mind if it was a rule that a driver can compete in the WRC only if he has won another FIA sanctioned rally championship, be it JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, IRC, or any remotely competitive national championship.

But I think having more competing cars is the most important step. Hopefully next year with the new specification there will be more manufacturers, more cars, and more competition.


True, P. Solberg became Norwegian champion in hillclimbing and rallycross in 1995 & 1996 and Norwegian rally champion in 1998. He signed with Malcolm Wilson at Ford the same year. He got his chance at Ford after sending Malcolm a promo-tape and begging. He was signed after coming to the UK, testing their cars and proving his speed.

That's the way is should be, young guys proving their speed and not the size of their parents bank account.

I hope we see many manufacturers and many teams join in with the new regulations. I think it's the only way we'll see the WRC gain interest again.

[DonJippo]

True, P. Solberg became Norwegian champion in hillclimbing and rallycross in 1995 & 1996 and Norwegian rally champion in 1998. He signed with Malcolm Wilson at Ford the same year. He got his chance at Ford after sending Malcolm a promo-tape and begging. He was signed after coming to the UK, testing their cars and proving his speed.

That's the way is should be, young guys proving their speed and not the size of their parents bank account.

Is this based on known facts or are you assuming he didn't bring any money to M-Sport?

[Alpha]

Is this based on known facts or are you assuming he didn't bring any money to M-Sport?

According to his own biography "110 percent" he drove 18 months for Ford without a contract. When he asked for one he didn't get any definite answers. Malcolm also had what Petter described as a very authoritative style of leadership and mistakes behind the steering wheel often resulted in verbal abuse from Malcolm. Imagine what Latvala has heard over the years...
The uncertainty at Ford and an increasingly difficult working environment took a heavy toll on Petter, to the degree that he contacted Olav Nøkling, a psychologist specializing in helping athletes. With help Petter got better and his driving also improved after learning to deal with all the drama outside the stages. When an offer came from David Lapworth it was easy to jump over to Subaru.

I don't know the contents of the verbal agreement between Petter and Malcolm, but he was an official part of the Ford junior team and I assume he got paid for driving either from Ford, Fords sponsors or his own sponsors. It's very unlikely that he brought any money to Ford without a written contract.

[Viking]

I don't know the contents of the verbal agreement between Petter and Malcolm, but he was an official part of the Ford junior team and I assume he got paid for driving either from Ford, Fords sponsors or his own sponsors. It's very unlikely that he brought any money to Ford without a written contract.

At first Petter did not get paid by Ford but he got the car for free and allowed to have his own sponsors on the car to pay his salary and expenses.

[Sulland]

Petter need to joint the tactics s*** of the others to have a chance to win.

As long as FIA do not change the starting order system, he looses too much by winning day 1.

[Langdale Forest]

The FIA should make the championship leader start 1st place on the road on all 3 days.

[Ghostwalker]

The FIA should make the championship leader start 1st place on the road on all 3 days.

no they shouldnt, they should do the direct opposite and re-introduce reversed start order ALL three days.

[OldF]

I think Petter should stay with Citroen because it’s a better car and it looks like Petter is able to find sponsors for his driving.

[cut the b.s.]

The FIA should make the championship leader start 1st place on the road on all 3 days.

if you want to watch a contrived competition go watch WWF or something

[Fide]

I can bet Petter will win again this year, then I would like to see what will you do with all your ironic and not constructive comments. BTW you continue talking and talking about Solberg..... seems you are an undercover fan or too bored to do anything else.


This can be real TODAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Francis44]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Petter!!!!

[bassist]

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Petter!!!!
Agree with that! Come on son - you deserve this for sticking at it!!!!!!!!1

[Helstar]

Fail :(

[bassist]

Oh B-ll-x Hope they are OK!!

[tmx]

I would like Petter to win a rally this year to be the first private team to win for a long time.

[N.O.T]

well i think today proved that peter doesn;t have the speed to win....but he could do it this year if others do mistakes because there are not many people who can be faster than him

[JFL]

well i think today proved that peter doesn;t have the speed to win....but he could do it this year if others do mistakes because there are not many people who can be faster than him

Does'nt have the speed to win? Grow up... He caught up today... Bigtime.. and made a mistake... but It looks like some other guy made a mistake too......

[N.O.T]

come on...don;t be unfair....he showed he lacked the winning pace when Ogier and Loeb were pushing hard.

[Rallyper]

come on...don;t be unfair....he showed he lacked the winning pace when Ogier and Loeb were pushing hard.

So Loeb didnt have winning pace the first day either?

[ridder]

come on...don;t be unfair....he showed he lacked the winning pace when Ogier and Loeb were pushing hard.

You can't compare things by ONE stage can you?

1. He wasn't that fast during SS18 either, specially not compared to SS19 and he said he made some mistake in SS20.

2. Even so he was faster than Latvala on that stage.. as he has been the whole 3 sunday stages, you know, Latvala, the guy that won the rally.

If he decided to keep steady pace he'd end 3rd. But as he himself now said, he wanted a win not a 3rd place and crashed. Oh well, not like he was the only one crashing and making mistakes, luck decides the outcome.

[N.O.T]

You can't compare things by ONE stage can you?



i think you can because it was a stage were all three citroen were pushing like hell...during an event there are very small parts were drivers push to their absolute limits so its not indicational of true speed.

[Jake Stephens]

Ah well, no one can say the guy didnt try, fair play to himself and Phil.

[Mr.Sidewayz]

pics??

[WRCS14]

I think again Petter has lost out due to road position after day 1. But I admire his need to be at the front. I realise the World Rally Troll says that he doesnt have the outright speed to win without others tripping up first, if I had a rally car costing me a half million euros I think Id be happy enough to drive around a minute per stage off Sebastian and be happy enough with that.
To drive at podium pace in the WRC involves taking massive risks all of the time, not just some of the time and means in most cases having absolutely no sympathy on the car,like some of the stages in Turkey etc. I,m sure the World Rally Troll with his vast competition experience understands all this.
Petter is driving his own cars, big big difference and he is still able to head the leaderboard on day 1. Respect :)

[N.O.T]

hey look.....

they are multiplying.....

so where i was wrong this time ??? Solberg crashed because he pushed to the max to win and still he couldn't match Ogier and Loeb who also pushed hard and had a far worse road position....

what have i done to deserve this ????

[DonJippo]

so where i was wrong this time ??? Solberg crashed because he pushed to the max to win and still he couldn't match Ogier and Loeb who also pushed hard and had a far worse road position....

Petter was over 5 sec ahead of Latvala and 4 sec ahead of Ogier when he went off, without it he would have won the event.

[N.O.T]

Petter was over 5 sec ahead of Latvala and 4 sec ahead of Ogier when he went off, without it he would have won the event.

what ???

he retired before reaching 2nd split until then was 0.4 down....

plus without anyone doing mistakes i think none would have gained or lose his place....

[AndyRAC]

All 'ifs' and 'buts' - if my Auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle......

[Finni2]

what ???

he retired before reaching 2nd split until then was 0.4 down....

plus without anyone doing mistakes i think none would have gained or lose his place....

Yes, according to Petter they were 5 secs ahead of Ogier just before crash. According to Petter poduim guys said that he would have won the rally without mistake. I guess we are not seeing all split times that teams can see.

You are also wrong when you say that Petter's fast stages happened only when other Citroens were not pushing. You can check for instance afternoon run from friday, covering more than 60 kilometres when Petter was seven seconds (or something like this) off from Seb who was storming after his mistake. Loeb was the fastest Citroen overally. But in my view Petter was very near to Ogier in terms of absolute pace and clearly faster than Sordo.

By the way, it's unfortunate that we have to even discuss about who was genuinely fast because with old road-position system everyone could see the real pace differences for the whole rally.

[Finni2]

Ogier is really refreshing case in rallying. He will be the one who pushes Loeb away from his place. I appriacate the way how Ogier started to fight when he had a chance for the win. In the last stage he started to loose ground but toward the end he pushed like crazy and was near to succeed in it. In the first ss of sunday he was also pushing like craze before his mistakes. If watch his in-car the cuts were amazing before he lost it (at that point he was ahead of Loeb in splits).

[bretddog]

He is quoted in the Norwegian newspapers being 5.5 and 4 sec up on Ogier/Latvala, at 5.5km when he crashed. Well... Of course in some way that's impressive, but more I think it just shows that he was on an all-or-nothing mission. And personally I think that speed was borderline to "stupid". It would likely never last for 30 km. I fail to see how this is good risk management, to take such approach when the 2nd position in the championship was so tight on points. But however insane it sounds, the way I understand Petter's mind, I actually believe he saw a possibility of closing in on Loeb in the chamionship points. Of course, that's a completely unrealistic hope for any sane person. But I think for Petter it's actually not.. If he sees even a slight possibility for that he will give it all, pluss a little more. So NOW I guess he will lower his aim for the runner-up spot.

[mjh]

I guess we are not seeing all split times that teams can see.

My understanding is that the dataloggers fitted by ISC to each car feed realtime information to the teams on progress along the stage, not just splits.
The teams get a graphline that shows how each of the cars (including competitors) in the stage are performing.

[Brother John]

Petter was over 5 sec ahead of Latvala and 4 sec ahead of Ogier when he went off, without it he would have won the event.

Yes he was to fast, thats all! :s mokin:

[serial jeff]

He is quoted in the Norwegian newspapers being 5.5 and 4 sec up on Ogier/Latvala, at 5.5km when he crashed. Well... Of course in some way that's impressive, but more I think it just shows that he was on an all-or-nothing mission. And personally I think that speed was borderline to "stupid". It would likely never last for 30 km. I fail to see how this is good risk management, to take such approach when the 2nd position in the championship was so tight on points.

Very true, but I think it's not all bad. I suspect Petter doesn't really care about getting 2nd place in the championship, he just wants to win rallies. It sucks to crash on the last stage, but at least now he's 5th in the championship, which puts him in a much better position to win Portugal. Being 2nd really screwed him over in New Zealand since he was forced to run first on the road on day 2 and end up way behind.

[WRCS14]

Anyone who has competed knows that at times taking a chance is required to be fast at this level. I believe the factory drivers will always take more risks as they dont have to deal with the consequences in the same fashion. Im sure many have seen the incar video on youtube with Colin in Rally GB 2001 where he takes cuts of maybe one to two feet on nearly every single corner, the stage times were unbelievable but the end result we also know. Atkinson once said in an interview I recall that because he hadnt the same experience when he started in the WRC he had to push harder and take more chances to be the same speed then some one who grew up driving in WRC since say 17 or 18.

When you foot the bill yourself after an off its a different kettle of fish. I think it will be unbelievable is Petter is prepared to take the risk to try win another rally. Some one like Matthew Wilson takes much less risks and hence finishes lots of rallys which is good for him if thats what he wants to do but the results dont come.

[ridder]

Originally Posted by ridder http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/aria/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=791419#post791419)
You can't compare things by ONE stage can you?

i think you can because it was a stage were all three citroen were pushing like hell...during an event there are very small parts were drivers push to their absolute limits so its not indicational of true speed.

So let's compare their speed by stage 9 of Jordan rally, Solberg ahead of Loeb and Ogier by 5 seconds when everyone is pushing, so that means he's way faster that both of them no?

... oh wait he lost 30 seconds on the stage right after...

so much for the stupidity of comparing speed by single stage.

[jbmarcus21]

Petter's son is now ready .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYw6iEeBOVs

[MJW]

Very true, but I think it's not all bad. I suspect Petter doesn't really care about getting 2nd place in the championship, he just wants to win rallies. It sucks to crash on the last stage, but at least now he's 5th in the championship, which puts him in a much better position to win Portugal. Being 2nd really screwed him over in New Zealand since he was forced to run first on the road on day 2 and end up way behind.
second place is OK if you are Mikko, - Colin, Tommi Makinen, Marcus, Petter, Ogier and Loeb, I feel can drive "above" the limit. When you are in that zone, it is one of two, results..........(and Marcus certainly had a few of those -anyone remember Japan?)
Getting silver in an awards ceremony in Monaco in December would be an amazing result for a private team, (probably the only true private team when comapred with Kronos Citroen 2006, and David Sutton Rothmans Ford 1981) but Petter has had a few third places and a second already this year. I guess he would rather people remember him for a few wins as a privateer rather than finishing second to Seb and Citroen Racing in the 2010 world championship.
I for one am glad that we still have drivers with the balls to take the risks when they smell a victory.

[J.Lindstroem]

Petter's son is now ready .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYw6iEeBOVs

"you always need to do it two times"

What a great spirit! Oliver has a great future cleaning cars.

[bretddog]

I for one am glad that we still have drivers with the balls to take the risks when they smell a victory.

That's for sure! It's refreshing, although a pain to see Petter retire.

Here is video (http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&featureid=1600&desc=New%20Zealand%202010:%20Petter%27s%20final%20 stage%20heartbreak) of Petter's off.. A shame.. He seems not to be too reckless, just fast, until that final bend where his speed is a bit too much, so no chance.. Assuming Loeb was also pushing on max here it's at least promising to see Petter's C4 able to keep the same speed, and even a couple of seconds quicker. I wouldn't expect his engine to have the same power.. but maybe it's not much difference (?) Well, it's just 5km, so not much to judge by perhaps.

[Xsara Fan]

That's for sure! It's refreshing, although a pain to see Petter retire.

Here is video (http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&featureid=1600&desc=New%20Zealand%202010:%20Petter%27s%20final%20 stage%20heartbreak) of Petter's off.. A shame.. He seems not to be too reckless, just fast, until that final bend where his speed is a bit too much, so no chance.. Assuming Loeb was also pushing on max here it's at least promising to see Petter's C4 able to keep the same speed, and even a couple of seconds quicker. I wouldn't expect his engine to have the same power.. but maybe it's not much difference (?) Well, it's just 5km, so not much to judge by perhaps.

Oh, come on! Stop talking about 'Petter`s engine is less powerful' and 'Petter is privateer'. 2009-2010 Solberg`s situation is his own fault! If he doesn`t run from Ford to Subaru WRT now he could be at top position.

[N.O.T]

i think it was an unlucky off....it doesn;t seem to be any mistakes with the line or anything....just went to the ditch and gave in....if it was on a flat surface he would continue no problem...

The reaction of peter made me a bit sad at the end....he was pushing and the dissapointment in his voice was obvious...

The fact that he tried to the max at least shows he has a fighters spirit still and not a quitters attitude.

[bretddog]

Oh, come on! Stop talking about 'Petter`s engine is less powerful' and 'Petter is privateer'. 2009-2010 Solberg`s situation is his own fault! If he doesn`t run from Ford to Subaru WRT now he could be at top position.

Oh pull your head out of your ass!

What I say is that it looks like they have equal powerful engine. Something I wouldn't expect until I see proof, but this is at least indicative. But not easy to say without comparing the full onboards of both of course.

[N.O.T]

i think all of the norwegian fans are doing a mistake by blaming the car all the time...you are missing the big picture that way.

[JFL]

Petter's car has appr. 8 hp less then M1 cars, different gearbox, and some other small details.. Does'nt mean a lot.. 0.1 sec per km. maybe, but that turns in to a lot of seconds in a rally..
He has the closest thing to a top spec car you can get as a privateer.. And he did'nt get it easy..
So as he gets more and more confident in the car and it's limits, I'm sure he will be in the podium fight for the rest of the season.. Maybe a win or two also?

[Tomi]

Petter's car has appr. 8 hp less then M1 cars, different gearbox, and some other small details.. Does'nt mean a lot.. 0.1 sec per km. maybe, but that turns in to a lot of seconds in a rally..
He has the closest thing to a top spec car you can get as a privateer.. And he did'nt get it easy..
So as he gets more and more confident in the car and it's limits, I'm sure he will be in the podium fight for the rest of the season.. Maybe a win or two also?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: , at least 5 sec/km, :laugh: :laugh:

[Carlo]

What you saw in NZ was two drivers both of whom have gained the status of being world champions competing to be number 1 for this event. Both had to run a day at the front of the field & sweep roads, Both made errors of judgement while driving at the absolute limit. One made more errors than the other but was able to get away with it suffering minor damage and some loss of time. The other for a similar type of error became a dnf.

Two young drivers became caught up in their battle and could have finished in front of them both then one made a couple of errors in the final stage and finished second to the one who made no errors and finished with an undamaged car.

Could Peter or Seb have taken sufficent time out of the cars in front of them on the final stage, who knows. They were both certainly trying to but I don't think that the youngsters in front of them were prepared to give up their advantages over them easily.

Lets just remember Petters drive on this event as the drive of a true World Champion who was doing his absolute best to win an event outright.

[Viking]

i think it was an unlucky off....it doesn;t seem to be any mistakes with the line or anything....just went to the ditch and gave in....if it was on a flat surface he would continue no problem...


Petter said it was an “Marcus Grönholm” moment :D he tried to take the 5th gear corner in 6th gear, when he hit the ditch he nailed it and he would have saved it if it wasn’t for the pole

[Rallyper]

What you saw in NZ was two drivers both of whom have gained the status of being world champions competing to be number 1 for this event. Both had to run a day at the front of the field & sweep roads, Both made errors of judgement while driving at the absolute limit. One made more errors than the other but was able to get away with it suffering minor damage and some loss of time. The other for a similar type of error became a dnf.

Two young drivers became caught up in their battle and could have finished in front of them both then one made a couple of errors in the final stage and finished second to the one who made no errors and finished with an undamaged car.

Could Peter or Seb have taken sufficent time out of the cars in front of them on the final stage, who knows. They were both certainly trying to but I don't think that the youngsters in front of them were prepared to give up their advantages over them easily.

Lets just remember Petters drive on this event as the drive of a true World Champion who was doing his absolute best to win an event outright.

My vote! :)

[Xsara Fan]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: , at least 5 sec/km, :laugh: :laugh:

No! Petter`s car is soooo slow. 341253453453453245 sec/km!

[Saabaru]

Congratulations Solberg and Mills, for a privateer to do what you guys have done this year you might as well be leading the championship!

[Halvis]

i think it was an unlucky off....it doesn;t seem to be any mistakes with the line or anything....just went to the ditch and gave in....if it was on a flat surface he would continue no problem...

The reaction of peter made me a bit sad at the end....he was pushing and the dissapointment in his voice was obvious...

The fact that he tried to the max at least shows he has a fighters spirit still and not a quitters attitude.

Kudos to you N.O.T. for a balanced and changed view upon Petter and his efforts!

[N.O.T]

right.... when i say something positive i am balanced... when i say something negative i am a pesimist evil person who deserves to be eated by a 3 legged lion.

[Helstar]

I think Petter did an error, you can see his 'hesitant' approach to the corner, tried to cut a little more than necessary ...
But kudos to him, he tried to win. And also unlucky for the power pole, without it he'd be back on road without serious damage, like Loeb and Ogier.

[Rallyper]

right.... when i say something positive i am balanced... when i say something negative i am a pesimist evil person who deserves to be eated by a 3 legged lion.

Maybe it´s the way you say your pessimist words, my friend. ;)

[Halvis]

right.... when i say something positive i am balanced... when i say something negative i am a pesimist evil person who deserves to be eated by a 3 legged lion.

I've never said things like that - the opposite in fact, I defended your right to write whatever you wanted some time ago. Yes, I'm a saint ;)

But yes, I've often disagreed with you, hehe.

[N.O.T]

I've never said things like that - the opposite in fact, I defended your right to write whatever you wanted some time ago. Yes, I'm a saint ;)

But yes, I've often disagreed with you, hehe.

ah really..i thought you were going with the general notion...

Abuse the bankrupt guy when things don;t go well....

[JFL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaqoDEsZonI&playnext_from=TL&videos=nkUK5wMYFjc&feature=sub
Petter Solberg tribute

[Red bull]

All 'ifs' and 'buts' - if my Auntie had balls, she'd be my uncle......
:D :D :D

[Langdale Forest]

right.... when i say something positive i am balanced... when i say something negative i am a pesimist evil person who deserves to be eated by a 3 legged lion.


:laugh:

[Iskald]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaqoDEsZonI&playnext_from=TL&videos=nkUK5wMYFjc&feature=sub
Petter Solberg tribute

Most video tributes are rubbish, and this one is no better than most...
Its all about video amateurs clipping randomly chosen television pictures together on a layer of meaningless muzac - and on top of that trying to be Artistic (with a big A!). Absolutely not my cup of tea.

[Langdale Forest]

Totally agree....

[Hartusvuori]

Most video tributes are rubbish, and this one is no better than most...
Its all about video amateurs clipping randomly chosen television pictures together on a layer of meaningless muzac - and on top of that trying to be Artistic (with a big A!). Absolutely not my cup of tea.

There is one strong exception to that rule. Amjayes' This Is Rallying -tribute is captivating everytime you ran across with it. Perhaps a be all, end all of all rallying tributes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqSGhWfkxxk

EDIT: Just realised there's no car sounds on that video. Usually everytime there's music over car sounds it annoys a lot, but on that video I noticed that only this umpteenth time I watched it. That underlines the strong narrative there is made by the composition of the music and the video. Should I say: Bravo!

[blissard]

Again he crashes at the very end of the rally :(

He was so close to another retirement, lucky he finished.

I feel he has a problem getting his nerves under control, when the pressure is high. My hopes for Petter are getting crushed over and over and over again, bah.

[6789]

Again he crashes at the very end of the rally :(

He was so close to another retirement, lucky he finished.

I feel he has a problem getting his nerves under control, when the pressure is high. My hopes for Petter are getting crushed over and over and over again, bah.

I have met him in person and he is just full of energy, hopefully he gets a wins this year. Finland, Japan or Gb?

[janvanvurpa]

Again he crashes at the very end of the rally :(

He was so close to another retirement, lucky he finished.

I feel he has a problem getting his nerves under control, when the pressure is high. My hopes for Petter are getting crushed over and over and over again, bah.

Nej calculated risk.
For him a 4th isn't any good, better to risk a vurpa than do a 4th.
He's on "vinna eller försvinna" mode and I think he must be.

In the past I thought he laid on the enthusiasm a bit too thick, (OKej he was trying to put a happy face on things when the idiots at Prodrive were trying to make a DTM car out of the Subie and that must be incredibly frustrating when Petter knew he has only so much time --in terms of age and "marketability" to work) but now I have great respect for what he's doing.

I wish more WRC guys had the balls to keep trying later than they do, but I can't imagine the enormous amount of BS needed to raise budgets that are needed.


Anyway "Heja Petter!" Keep on keeping on!

[blissard]

There's no way he could have taken 3rd place, if Sordo didn't crash. He should have secured 4th place without any trouble.

Of course I will continue to cheer for Petter, but his last minute problems are driving me crazy.

[tmx]

Well he doesn't owe you any money that would damage you so much psychologically when he doesn't finish, you could bet money on some other drivers like Ogier and Loeb.

I'm disappointed as well, he tend to make mistakes when he goes all out, but its like why I like his character. Although he doesn't get good results in the last two rallies, I think he still does get some coverage so its not so bad for his sponsor either. I think GB would be Petter best chance of winning.

[N.O.T]

stupidity in its purest form.....

[janvanvurpa]

stupidity in its purest form.....
says the Forums ex-spurt on Stupidity.

Thank you for you deep analysis.

[N.O.T]

not much analysis needed really....he had nothing to earn yet he did a mistake by pushing hard...4 seconds on a stage where the top 10 were separated by 2 seconds on the first run were impossible, especially against a very strong tarmac guy like sordo.

[Rallyper]

not much analysis needed really....he had nothing to earn yet he did a mistake by pushing hard...4 seconds on a stage where the top 10 were separated by 2 seconds on the first run were impossible, especially against a very strong tarmac guy like sordo.

This could have been said from you in the first place, without the rubbish above.

To this I can agree. Petter should have been satisfied with 4th.

[ridder]

It was said now on Norwegian TV that he has lost 3rd place because of his team's mistake - must have be the steering problem.

Anyway there was also lot of talk about them wishing extra driver in the team, even including interview with Malcolm Wilson.


Who might that one possibly be? And who should it be?

Henning - guess both would wish that, even though Henning doesn't have the speed to be in the top 6 now.

Østberg - possible, but he has own team and probably won't like to be "under" Petter in his team

P.G. - probably doesn't have the money

Mikkelsen - doesn't have the money either

other ideas?

[bretddog]

SS18 ? - no comment
SS18 in light of NZ ? - absolutely no comment

But in good Solberg-fan tradition, I think why not sooner than later, start to put these events on the "what-if" account.. So... That's 12 for NZ, and 2 for Portugal.. 14 points so far.. I'm sure we will end up with a respectful imaginary podium finish in the standings at the end of the year..

[MJW]

It was said now on Norwegian TV that he has lost 3rd place because of his team's mistake - must have be the steering problem.

Anyway there was also lot of talk about them wishing extra driver in the team, even including interview with Malcolm Wilson.


Who might that one possibly be? And who should it be?

Henning - guess both would wish that, even though Henning doesn't have the speed to be in the top 6 now.

Østberg - possible, but he has own team and probably won't like to be "under" Petter in his team

P.G. - probably doesn't have the money

Mikkelsen - doesn't have the money either

other ideas?
Brynildsen

[Langdale Forest]

not much analysis needed really....he had nothing to earn yet he did a mistake by pushing hard...4 seconds on a stage where the top 10 were separated by 2 seconds on the first run were impossible, especially against a very strong tarmac guy like sordo.

You really are a huge Petter fan.....?

[bretddog]

OMG.. this is really sad...
Petter and Phil breaking up.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/sport/motorsport/article3688544.ece
English translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Fspor t%2Fmotorsport%2Farticle3688544.ece&sl=auto&tl=en)

[alleskids]

... a shock decision.... :(

[Iskald]

OMG.. this is really sad...
Petter and Phil breaking up.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/sport/motorsport/article3688544.ece
English translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Fspor t%2Fmotorsport%2Farticle3688544.ece&sl=auto&tl=en)

Very surprising, indeed. Press releases indicate that there is nothing dramatic between Petter and Phil. In fact, both expresses sadness that it is now over. It seems that this is primarily Phils decision, and that Petter is left in a difficult situation to find a new codriver in short time. And it will not be easy to replace Phil Mills, who in my opinion has been one of the best professional codrivers ever.

What surprises me, though, is Phils somewhat "hasty" decision to pull out in the middle of an ongoing season. Has something happened between the two that has made it difficult for Phil to continue? Phils is quoted in the official press release "This is one of the toughest decisions in my life, but I feel it is time to go on and focus on other things in my everyday life".

They have done 152 WRC rallies together since 1999 - and it has become a lifestyle for both of them. Petter will surely miss Phil in the coming events, and its quite a blow for him in the middle of the season.

[bretddog]

From Petter's website:

Phil Mills to leave PSWRT

After 11 years as Petter Solbergs codriver, Phil Mills has decided to leave the codriver seat and concentrate on other parts of life.

Phil Mills quote:
-This has been one of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make but I feel the time has come to now concentrate on other parts of life. We have competed on 152 WRC events together over the past 11 years and it has become more of a way of life rather than a job. I have enjoyed every single kilometre through the highs and lows that came along and I am sure Petter will win many more events in the future given the right circumstances. I will miss the whole wrc scene very much and wish Petter and the team very great success in the future.

Petter Solberg quote:
- Phil is leaving the team, and I feel really sad about it. I think it will be very difficult to find a codriver with his skills, to join me in my car again. We have been together for so many years, in fact I’ve had him by my side through most of my career, so this is a tough break up for me. Looking back on what we have achieved together, I feel especially sorry as I was sure our next win would happen this season and I was hoping to have Phil by my side when it happens. He has been the one that has meant the most for me through my career. Our relationship must have been the strongest relationship between driver and codriver ever!

The team has not made any decision regarding a new codriver yet.

http://www.pettersolberg.com/html/2010/06/11/phil-mills-slutter-som-kartleser/

[6789]

Very surprising, indeed. Press releases indicate that there is nothing dramatic between Petter and Phil. In fact, both expresses sadness that it is now over. It seems that this is primarily Phils decision, and that Petter is left in a difficult situation to find a new codriver in short time. And it will not be easy to replace Phil Mills, who in my opinion has been one of the best professional codrivers ever.

What surprises me, though, is Phils somewhat "hasty" decision to pull out in the middle of an ongoing season. Has something happened between the two that has made it difficult for Phil to continue? Phils is quoted in the official press release "This is one of the toughest decisions in my life, but I feel it is time to go on and focus on other things in my everyday life".

They have done 152 WRC rallies together since 1999 - and it has become a lifestyle for both of them. Petter will surely miss Phil in the coming events, and its quite a blow for him in the middle of the season.

I really do have to agree, it will be hard to replace him and i really hope that nothing happened between them. One of those things i guess

Who can Petter get now??

[I am evil Homer]

I dunno, Phil has a young family doesn't he? Lots of travelling around takes its toll eventually and maybe he figured best to leave now or risk it affecting his personal life.

[Karukera]

Shocking news.

I feel something 'personnal life' from Mills' side.

Quick thoughts : Grist, Giraudet, Prévot, Suomi expert ?

[Iskald]

I dunno, Phil has a young family doesn't he? Lots of travelling around takes its toll eventually and maybe he figured best to leave now or risk it affecting his personal life.

Of course, this is a plausible reason. But on the other hand, Phil and his family has been used to this life during many years. Its nothing new that Phil is away on WRC rallies. In fact he has had quite a lucrative career and has established a good economic base for his private life codriving for Petter.

Everything must come to an end, I suppose, and maybe this was just the right time for Phil. But still extremely surprising and to a degree shockingly so...

[Hartusvuori]

This is a shocking decision in many ways, and even if the reasons behind it are personal it'd be nice to know why and especially why now.

It's hard to imagine this wouldn't have any negative influence on Solberg's positive curve he had shown since the beginning of his own team. Why Phil didn't choose to stay until the end of this season? What was suddenly so unbearable? And if Petter keeps up the pace and perhaps collects the reward in form of first win with Citroen, Phil should be there also.

What kind of role Phil has/had in PSWRT besides co-driving Solberg?

Imagine, Portugal's last SSS with all the hustle was the last stage Petter and Phil ever did together then.

And who could replace him? The usual suspects Moscatt and Prevot? Who else?

[Viking]

I did not see that one coming!

Maybe Petter could bring back Cato Menkerud now?? At least he is "free" in the next two wrc rounds.

[MartijnS]

Too bad! :(
A bit strange though to quit so sudden in the middle of the season.

[sal]

Shock decision however Phil does have other business interests including his MK2 Escort historic rally preperation company. Perhaps it's a reflection of the pace needed to keep up with Loeb etc that is in the back of his mind and the thought of the potential next big accident...

[Hartusvuori]

...the thought of the potential next big accident...

If that would be the case, it would be the time to call it off. He was very lucky to come out alive from that Germany crash in 2004 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVshT38kyo&feature=fvw).

[duff]

I personally believe that safety was the issue for Phil. I actually thought that this was coming for a while (though not halfway through the season), look at any of the footage of him when he and petter are going off the road.

All this is just speculation though...

[Pinto]

there has to a ''real'' story of phil leaving the quotes from the web site are a good PR speak,but i wouldnt think that it was a fall out and he was sacked but maybe phil has lost the love for the fight.
one thing for sure Petter will i belive, never be the same without Phil and it will be hard to find a replacement .

[Minke]

I wonder if money is an issue? Petter will be scraping as much as he can together and perhaps Phil is being short paid?

just a thought.

being an aussie, I vote for Dale to co-pilot for Petter :)

[pettersolberg29]

Cannot believe this news. It's an end of an era.

Replacements? Prevot, Menkerud? Not sure who he'll go for.

[COD]

I would think, that the money he got from private team with Petter was not enough to compensate the risks involved. Phil is a wise man and very nice person and he must have thought this through in his mind very thoroughly.

[Francis44]

What about Nicky Grist?! I know is not a young guy but surely a very professional person.

[TMorel]

It can also be looked at from the other view, and if it's a true "personal reason" (I was boarding a plane to fly to one event when I just decided I didnt want to codrive anymore, so I can relate if it is) then it takes a lot of courage to leave mid season, especially when the results that were missing for so long are now starting to come good.

[bretddog]

The risk sounds likely to be a part of this decision. It's many years where they have been driving on (only) 99% as there was not really any point to push more with the equipment they had. Personally I was hoping that Petter had matured from this, and learnt to drive on steady maximum pace and calculate his risks. However in NZ he decided with full conscience to go all-or-nothing on a single stage, with pretty poor odds. Also I didn't really appreciate that he didn't even ask if Phil was ok, but jumped out to look at the damage. Perhaps this moment was the realization for Phil that to complete this season would be on a level of risk that is just slightly out of his comfort zone. As no win would almost not be an option for Petter this year. He would have laid it all out through the rest of the season, and they would likely take the highest risk of all the cars competing. If you already are looking towards retirement, then it's understandable that he felt it was time to pull the plug. After all, it has to be done one day, and it's gonna be hard no matter what.

[vkangas]

MTV3 says that Phil has not been getting any salary with PSWRT. I think the reason is that one day you come into a point that you are not willing to risk your life for nothing.

[raybak]

I've just sent Petter my resume. See how I go I suppose :)

Ray

[bretddog]

Yes, that's what I've read too.. Petter is running on a deficit, and Phil been co-driving for free.

[Francis44]

If that's true then it's totally understandable.

[Allyc85]

All im going to say is gutted :(

Good luck to Phil though wit his buisness, which already seems to be doing rather well :)

[kolvas]

Too bad! :(
A bit strange though to quit so sudden in the middle of the season.

I totaly agree.

[Barreis]

It started to be very hot in the car.. Summer is coming.. xd

[Viking]

Seven names on Petters shortlist:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenbladet.no%2Fsport%2F121809 1%2FSju_navn_paa_blokken_til_Solberg.html&sl=no&tl=en

It also says that Mills still will play a part in the team :up:

[bretddog]

I don't know what to believe about how long this has been planned, but still I think strategically it makes perfect sense for this to happen mid season, if Phil first has decided that he shall retire..

If this happened at the end of the season Petter would likely get in big trouble bringing in sponsors for next year, which he may very well need to. Now I assume he is covered for the rest of the season, and will have the maximum time he could hope for, to get up to speed with a new co-driver, in order to prove they can be competitive.

Obviously Phil would never want to pull Petter out of the service park.. So by leaving now he's giving him the best chances to stay in the game I think. Maybe Phil is making some sacrifices to go a bit early, as it was just an opportunity that presented itself.

[maxter]

Very shocking news as already been stated. I'll really miss him and I did feel that Petter's upcoming win really should be with Mills.

However, I highly doubt that this is a decision made with a minute's notice or anything. Even if it's mid-season and even if there are no co-drivers officially nominated yet and it therefore feels really sudden for us "outsiders", I'm almost convinced that this has been decided and planned (and not just quietly by Mills) for some time and that the whole team is more or less prepared for what's coming up.
Otherwise I would truly be surprised, whether due to personal or economical reasons. I don't think he would do anything to make life harder for the team than avoidable.

Not that anyone's necessarily claimed otherwise, that's just my thoughts in writing.

[bretddog]

Another thing is that it's likely much easier for Petter to arrange a good co-driver now, than in the end of the year, when more drivers will be on final planning for next season. I think it's partly a solidarity move from Phil. He may not be so urgent about getting out of the game, but as the nature of his personality, he wants Petter to have the best replacement possible in his seat. And it may look like the right time in that respect, in addition to the sponsor situation. So everything just piles up on the table and all he has to do is step down. It's either that, or having to "commit" to perhaps another 2-3 years in order to find a situation suitable to leave, and it may still be inferior to the current opportunity. And it's not a risk to stand on the sideline. It's always a possibility to jump in again for a season, if he is needed and wants to.

[Barreis]

Any news about replacement? Petter won't wait long for decision..

[bennizw]

Considering the countries that were mentioned in the article, I have put up a little list of possible co-drivers.

Great Britain:
* Nicky Grist
* Robert Reid
* David Senior
* Nicky Beech
* Daniel Baritt
* Brian Thomas

Estonia:
* Kuldar Sikk

Italy:
* Giovanni Bernachinni
* Carlo Cassina

Australia:
* Dale Moscatt
* Glenn MacNeall
* Ben Atkinson

Sweden:
* Maria Andersson
* Tina Thorner
* Staffan Parmander
* Emil Axelsson


Emil Axelsson stepped in for Phil Mills under a pre-event test earlier this year, so maybe he is in a good position to take over?

[Barreis]

I saw one onboard with Cassina (codriving to C.Fontana) where guy yawns in the middle of the stage.. xd

[Daniel]

Considering the countries that were mentioned in the article, I have put up a little list of possible co-drivers.

Great Britain:
* Nicky Grist
* Robert Reid
* David Senior
* Nicky Beech
* Daniel Baritt
* Brian Thomas

Estonia:
* Kuldar Sikk

Italy:
* Giovanni Bernachinni
* Carlo Cassina

Australia:
* Dale Moscatt
* Glenn MacNeall
* Ben Atkinson

Sweden:
* Maria Andersson
* Tina Thorner
* Staffan Parmander
* Emil Axelsson


Emil Axelsson stepped in for Phil Mills under a pre-event test earlier this year, so maybe he is in a good position to take over?
Gawd! PLEASE not Glenn MacNeall!

[Mitch555]

Don't get stuck into him :P Dale Moscatt is a good co-driver and a great sense of humour, so might fit the seat. Tina Thorner another good choice as her English is good. What about Giraudet?

[Daniel]

Don't get stuck into him :P Dale Moscatt is a good co-driver and a great sense of humour, so might fit the seat. Tina Thorner another good choice as her English is good. What about Giraudet?
GLe

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painful to

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****reading the above post is like listening to Glenn's notes****

[Tanelv]

Considering the countries that were mentioned in the article, I have put up a little list of possible co-drivers.
Estonia:
* Kuldar Sikk


Sikk is already reading pacenotes to Ott Tänak (who is driving in PirelliSDT) so it is rather unlikely to happen.
But maybe Kristo Kraag would be the one from Estonia

[fastboy]

Scott Martin may be ?

[MR666]

My vote has to be for Nicky Grist.

[serial jeff]

Phil's one of the best codrivers around, and having driven their entire WRC careers together, I wonder if Petter can still be competitive without him. It certainly won't be the same for me, Petter and Phil have been my favourite team since I started following rally in ~2002. I wish Phil well in his future enterprises. And though Petter can't replace him, hopefully he'll find a decent substitute. What's Prevot doing these days?

[ProRally]

Stephane is reading notes for Chris Atkinson in APRC with Proton

[Motorsportfun]

Italy:
* Giovanni Bernachinni (Nasser Al-Attiyah)
* Carlo Cassina (Rally d'Italia organisation and co-driving Valentino Rossi)

:D

[bowler]

Petter does his notes in english.

That rules out a number of suggestions.

I would doubt that Nicky Grist is available any more.

The choice will be interesting for us, and very difficult for Petter.

[6789]

Totalrally on Twitter is reporting Bernichinni is going to be Petter's co-driver

[skarderud]

an italian?

interesting.

hopefully they find the pace fast!
i personally thought emil axelsson would be the new co-driver....

[N.O.T]

hmmm good choice with him the car will be at least 20kg lighter also....

[JFL]

Colin Clark:"Looks like Petter has gone for Giovanni Bernichinni as new co driver. Not yet confirmed but looks likely. Choice seems to have been between Giovanni and Dan Baritt, so weight must be consideration. Petter and Phil were heaviest crew in top six!"
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/493723/TR_1982_FIAT_6_(6).jpg
How old is he? Has he ever been codriving in a WRC-car? ;)

[JFL]

Colin Clark:"What a lot of tosh in my last post! My Italyan has let me down again, looks like Bernichinni said NO to Petter. My money now most definetly on Dan Barrit."

[Viking]

At least Bernacchini can read different languages :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El3Ic9y7bsE

[Fide]

Why not Markko martin ?

[ProRally]

Colin Clark:"Looks like Petter has gone for Giovanni Bernichinni as new co driver. Not yet confirmed but looks likely. Choice seems to have been between Giovanni and Dan Baritt, so weight must be consideration. Petter and Phil were heaviest crew in top six!"
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/493723/TR_1982_FIAT_6_(6).jpg
How old is he? Has he ever been codriving in a WRC-car? ;)

Different one..... Giovanni is sitting with Nasser at the moment

[Josti]

Colin Clark:"Looks like Petter has gone for Giovanni Bernichinni as new co driver. Not yet confirmed but looks likely. Choice seems to have been between Giovanni and Dan Baritt, so weight must be consideration. Petter and Phil were heaviest crew in top six!"
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/493723/TR_1982_FIAT_6_(6).jpg
How old is he? Has he ever been codriving in a WRC-car? ;)

His father, Arnaldo Bernacchini, was also a codriver in the 1970's for likes as Pinto and also Bettega.

I think Giovanni would be a very good choise, vast experience with Gigi Galli and also Al-Attiyah more recently.

[Barreis]

Italian is also very light..

[tmx]

Why not Markko martin ? I don't think Markko is into co-driving, he's more of a .......driver.

Very sad to see Phil leaving. I was thinking Prevot, but Giovanni is a good choice. If he can deal with fist and water bottle in the face, then he can manage Petter. But if this is true, then I want to know what would happens with Gigi.

[tmx]

Giovanni turned down Petter's offer: http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/bernacchini_considered_solberg_offer/

[Red bull]

nicky grist will be the best choice.

[Iskald]

nicky grist will be the best choice.

Can`t imagine Nicky Grist would ever consider making a comeback - with Petter...

Rumour has it that Petter would like to "steal" Ilkka Minor from big brother Henning.

[MJW]

Makes sense, especially if Henning is not entering Bulgaria. I still think maybe Cato from Finland onwards as Brynildsen is doing Biulgaria but not Finland.

[ProRally]

Ilkka would do well with Petter..... and is also ultra lightweight

[Iskald]

Ilkka would do well with Petter..... and is also ultra lightweight

It surprises me that so many are focusing on the weight of the codriver. (I know Petter is too...). Petter first concern should rather be the fact that he is trying to replace an absolute first class codriver (Phil Mills) who has been with him for nearly eleven years. Phil has had a nearly telepathic understanding of what Petter needs from his codriver. Phil has been absolutely spot on professional and competent in reading Petters very complex and detailed notes. Just watch the inboard from Ouninpohja 2004 (when they set the record) and try to imagine if it will be easy or difficult for Petter to find a replacement for Phil. It will be damn difficult, In my humble opinion!

[Viking]

Petters order

- Notereading in English
- professional (top level wrc experience)
- Fitness and weight (this rules out Iskald who has heavy bones ;) )

[Tomi]

Petters order

- Notereading in English
- professional (top level wrc experience)
- Fitness and weight (this rules out Iskald who has heavy bones ;) )
- and for free

[Tomi]

It surprises me that so many are focusing on the weight of the codriver. (I know Petter is too...).

I think you are right, there is not that many good co-drivers with WRC experiense, better would be to focus on the skills that really matters.

[urabus-denoS2000]

There are plenty of codrivers with WRC experience currently doing nothing , like Bernacchini , Guido D'Amore , Glenn MacNeall , Denis Giradeut , Stephane Prevot , Timo Gottschalk , Klaus Wicha , Derek Ringer , Manfred Hiemer ,....

Most of them talk in English.

These are only the ones that come to mind now ;)


And BTW guys Giovanni Bernacchini is one of the best co drivers in Italy and in the world , he has 80 WRC starts ;) And he is extremely small :D

[Sulland]

There is interest: http://translate.google.no/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dagbladet.no%2F2010%2 F06%2F16%2Fsport%2Frally%2Fpetter_solberg%2Fwrc%2F phil_mills%2F12166122%2F&sl=no&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

[jonas_mcrae]

There are plenty of codrivers with WRC experience currently doing nothing , like Bernacchini , Guido D'Amore , Glenn MacNeall , Denis Giradeut , Stephane Prevot , Timo Gottschalk , Klaus Wicha , Derek Ringer , Manfred Hiemer ,....
:D

I dont think they are just sitting at home doing nothing... humans need to eat to survive you know... plus most of the times codrivers have families to take care of and sometimes jobs or their own businesses.

I know Bernacchini is riding with Nasser and Im almost sure McNeall is codriving in oz, not sure about the rest but they might be codriving as well, dont assume they have no other skill other than codriving!

[Barreis]

Must be a winner not loser..

[ProRally]

- and for free

IMPOSSIBLE to find.... (professional, english speaking, fit etc. and all that free ? ) :D :D :D

[pettersolberg29]

IMPOSSIBLE to find.... (professional, english speaking, fit etc. and all that free ? ) :D :D :D

I'm availible - I'm professional, English, fit, a 'winner' and free.




Trouble is I'm not a codriver, but I'm sure that doesn't really matter ;)