IRL elects not to replace Detroit

[MDS]

In a stunning move of sheer brilliance the IRL has decided to not race on Labor Day despite at least one's track efforts to get on the schedule.

Doug Demmons of Birmingham News tells us:

The Indy Racing League has decided not to replace the canceled Detroit Grand Prix on its 2009 schedule, dashing any hope that Barber Motorsports Park might fill the vacant spot. Clark Virden of Zoom Motorsports said Barber was concentrating now on the upcoming March 21-23 full field, preseason Indy test at Barber and securing a spot on the 2010 schedule.
Barber hosted a limited Indy test session in 2007 but the one scheduled for March will include the entire field, plus the Indy Lights division. The hope, Virden said, is that the IRL will like what they see and include Barber when the schedule expands in 2010.
The Detroit Grand Prix at the Belle Isle course became a victim of the weakened economy, especially in hard-hit Michigan.
Barber promoters believe they can win an Indy race date since the league has no other races in the Southeast and because of the proximity of Indy engine supplier Honda just a few miles away near Talladega and of tire supplier Firestone in Nashville.
As I understand it Barber and Nashville were both pushing for that date with Barber being the stronger contender. I also heard from a Canadian friend of mine that Montreal was never contacted by the IRL.

Personally, I can't think of a better person to have sole control of AOWR's future than Tony George.

[downtowndeco]

Whether or not it was a good move depends entirely on what the bottom line looked like. Better to skip a race than to add dead wood that is only going to cost the series.


In a stunning move of sheer brilliance the IRL has decided to not race on Labor Day despite at least one's track efforts to get on the schedule.

Doug Demmons of Birmingham News tells us:
As I understand it Barber and Nashville were both pushing for that date with Barber being the stronger contender. I also heard from a Canadian friend of mine that Montreal was never contacted by the IRL.

Personally, I can't think of a better person to have sole control of AOWR's future than Tony George.

[anthonyvop]

Whether or not it was a good move depends entirely on what the bottom line looked like. Better to skip a race than to add dead wood that is only going to cost the series.

I agree with you on that one.
Barber would have been just another parade as it is way too narrow for Indy Cars to pass.
Nashville would have just been another oval race in a market that is already saturated.

[bblocker68]

I agree with you on that one.
Barber would have been just another parade as it is way too narrow for Indy Cars to pass.
Nashville would have just been another oval race in a market that is already saturated.

I was thinking the same think, Anthony. Tracks like Barber and VIR are great Venues, but may be a little too tight for high speed IndyCars.

[MDS]

While I understand that logic, and agree with it to a certain point, the announcement should have came from the league, and not second hand by a guy in Alabama. When they made the decision not to replace Detriot, which I understand was made by New Years. They just should have put a release on their website stating that, and, "Barber and other tracks that expressed interest are being considered for 2010 and beyond."

As far as keeping 18 races on the schedule my first pick would have been to try and salvage the F-1 date at Montreal, but it looks like the IRL didn't even try to do that.

Also, I love how people who have never been to, or raced on, the track claim to know it's too narrow for cars they've never driven. I've driven bikes and cars at different track days at Barber, and while it's not as wide as an oval there is enough room to pass, especially with the IRL rules about blocking. At this point I'm planning on being at Barber on the Saturday of the test so hopefully I'll get some pictures that will shead some light on the subject of passing.

[speeddurango]

While one could have more knowledge by actually driving on a track, it's really not hard to tell Barber is really not a good track for advanced open wheel cars to overtake, I believe it would be way more suitable for stock cars or touring cars.

[CCWS77]

Whether or not it was a good move depends entirely on what the bottom line looked like. Better to skip a race than to add dead wood that is only going to cost the series.

Thats funny, I thought fans would actually like to have races to see. Silly me! Who knew IRL races serve no function or purpose?

[downtowndeco]

It's a business. A professional racing series. Not club racing for the enjoyment of a couple of rich guys who want to show off.


Thats funny, I thought fans would actually like to have races to see. Silly me! Who knew IRL races serve no function or purpose?

[garyshell]

In a stunning move of sheer brilliance the IRL has decided to not race on Labor Day despite at least one's track efforts to get on the schedule.


Whether or not it was a good move depends entirely on what the bottom line looked like. Better to skip a race than to add dead wood that is only going to cost the series.


It's a business. A professional racing series. Not club racing for the enjoyment of a couple of rich guys who want to show off.

There are two SEPARATE businesses in play here the series and the promoter. The "bottom line" is the promoter's problem. The series gets their sanctioning fee regardless of the "bottom line". So I too have to question why the series is deciding NOT to try to replace this race if a promoter is at the ready.

Gary

[downtowndeco]

Fair enough. But who knows what the promoter was offering? Maybe they wanted a break on the sanctioning fee. Maybe the IRL decided that the track wasn't up to parr. Who knows?

IMO the IRL is always looking at the long view, not how to make a quick buck this season. The tracks probably just didn't fit into the overall scheme of things in the long run.


There are two SEPARATE businesses in play here the series and the promoter. The "bottom line" is the promoter's problem. The series gets their sanctioning fee regardless of the "bottom line". So I too have to question why the series is deciding NOT to try to replace this race if a promoter is at the ready.

Gary

[garyshell]

Fair enough. But who knows what the promoter was offering? Maybe they wanted a break on the sanctioning fee. Maybe the IRL decided that the track wasn't up to parr. Who knows?

IMO the IRL is always looking at the long view, not how to make a quick buck this season. The tracks probably just didn't fit into the overall scheme of things in the long run.

Maybe... maybe... probabbly... sounds like a lot of speculation.

The point is you don't know either.

Gary

[downtowndeco]

I know the IRL decided not to race that weekend.

I know that the IRL does not do self promotes.

I know the IRL is not so desperate to fill the schedule that it would take just any event to fill the date.

I know the IRL does not add races if they do not fit into the long term goals of the league.

I know that since the IRL wants to be succesful and have as many fans as possible that if they decided to race there must have been a good reason.

For some of you to insinuate that "Gee, what a bunch of morons. They should have taken anything to fill the date" is just plain silly. It's that sort of thinking that put another OW series out of business.



Maybe... maybe... probabbly... sounds like a lot of speculation.

The point is you don't know either.

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

I have a slightly different take on things. I think the IRL maybe has made a mistake by NOT putting on a race on Labor day BUT Deco is correct in saying that maybe they are looking for a sure thing. The one fault I picked on constantly with CCWS was the constant jumping around looking for venues that might be good for them. Losing Detroit is one thing but replacing it with a race at Barber would only work if the race at Barber was a success. If it failed, then it would show a sign of desparation and weakness on the part of IRL management.

Barber is in stockcar nation, the South. It is a venue that is narrow (people can argue this but I have watched enough Grand AM and Bike races on TV to believe this) and hard to pass on at times. Likely the race would be no different than the race at Infineon. I am not sure they need a venue like that.

The main issue I have, and I think it is VERY valid regardless on whether you think they should have explored going to Barber or not is the sort of lazy way the IRL goes about its business. Penske says the race is done and the IRL put out I think one press release saying it was done and didn't really say whether they were considering a replacement, nor did they say Barber is out officially even when people were all over Alabama saying they wanted the race. Montreal has an open date and would be a spectacular venue where OW racing wouldn't have to be sold to the local populace and yet the IRL didn't even want to look at it. Heck, it is good enough for NASCAR so why the IRL has not even explored the option boggles the mind. IT almost seems like if Tony feels he wants another race one day, then they pursue it. If he thinks they don't, he doesn't. There doesn't seem to be any marketing strategy or grand plan at this point. I am sure at some level there is but you see little evidence of it and Tony is almost hermit like with this thoughts on the state of the series, which doesn't help the sale of the series. You only have to look at the way Mike Helton and Brian France down in NASCAR land are constantly holding court with the press to see how it should be done. The more you keep from the press, the more they speculate and drive your agenda....

[Mark in Oshawa]

I was thinking the same think, Anthony. Tracks like Barber and VIR are great Venues, but may be a little too tight for high speed IndyCars.


VIR is tight? Funny...they have a big @ss back straight there and while they have a lot of esses, the front straight and the long back straight, not to mention the straight heading down towards the end of the track where the tree is are all prime passing zones for other types of cars. Unless an IRL car tested here, I would hardly say the layout would be too tight. What does VIR in however is it being in the middle of nowhere really.....

[SarahFan]

I know the IRL decided not to race that weekend.

I know that the IRL does not do self promotes.

I know the IRL is not so desperate to fill the schedule that it would take just any event to fill the date.

I know the IRL does not add races if they do not fit into the long term goals of the league.

I know that since the IRL wants to be succesful and have as many fans as possible that if they decided to race there must have been a good reason.

For some of you to insinuate that "Gee, what a bunch of morons. They should have taken anything to fill the date" is just plain silly. It's that sort of thinking that put another OW series out of business.

I know that after what is more often than not a great race both ontrack and in attendance at Chicago the IRL will be finishing its season with two 3 week breaks during football season and a race in the midlle of the night in motegi... and a season finale at Homestead....both have week crowds and average at best racing...

they would be better off just ending the season at Chicago!

[SarahFan]

Whether or not it was a good move depends entirely on what the bottom line looked like. Better to skip a race than to add dead wood that is only going to cost the series.


short term pain......long term gain

[SarahFan]

There are two SEPARATE businesses in play here the series and the promoter. The "bottom line" is the promoter's problem. The series gets their sanctioning fee regardless of the "bottom line". So I too have to question why the series is deciding NOT to try to replace this race if a promoter is at the ready.

Gary

as well as a paying TV contract with Versus....

[jimispeed]

Here is a track that wants to be on the schedule......

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7096/20030711w0001td2.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20030711w0001td2.jpg)


What happened here TG?!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jimi...I agree, Cleveland Rocks!!!

THAT isn't no street race.....

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Cleveland was never an option to replace Detroit because the Cleveland National Air Show takes place at Burke Lakefront Airport on Labour Day Weekend.

On the long term, I think the problem with Cleveland and Road America is Mid-Ohio and Milwaukee. The IRL might not want to dilute the market by having two races in Ohio and Wisconsin.

Portland has more chance to be on the schedule because it would be a new market, and one without NASCAR.

[garyshell]

Cleveland was never an option to replace Detroit because the Cleveland National Air Show takes place at Burke Lakefront Airport on Labour Day Weekend.

On the long term, I think the problem with Cleveland and Road America is Mid-Ohio and Milwaukee. The IRL might not want to dilute the market by having two races in Ohio and Wisconsin.

Portland has more chance to be on the schedule because it would be a new market, and one without NASCAR.


I am not convinced that Cleveland would really dilute the Mid-Ohio race all that much. (The two coexisted on the schedule for many years and the Trueman family didn't seem to think it an issue.)

Mid-Ohio draws a large part of their crowd from southern Ohio, northern Kentucky and southeeast Indiana (aka greater Cincinnati). It's an easy day trip from that area. (Been doin' it for 40 years now.) Cleveland is NOT a day trip. Yes there is a cartain amount of crossover between the two places, but not nearly as high as folks think or the geography might imply.

Gary

[garyshell]

Not to mention that Cleveland clearly provides better racing than MidO. The faster modern cars out grew MidO a while back. Not many opportunities for passing there anymore. So, given the choice, I'd take Cleveland over MidO any day (sorry Gary :) ). It's still a great place for lower level series though. Too bad they let the SCCA runoffs get away.


For open wheel and the pure racing aspect, I too would take Clevland over MidOhio. For atmosphere and the total experience, hands down Mid Ohio. If I had the choice to take a bunch of "newbies" to an open wheel race at the two venues, it would have to be Mid Ohio. The total package is MUCH better.

Don't get me started about the runoffs. I have been watching the Kansas version lately and I swear I dont see a SINGLE FREAKIN' spectator anywhere!

Gary

[Mark in Oshawa]

For open wheel and the pure racing aspect, I too would take Clevland over MidOhio. For atmosphere and the total experience, hands down Mid Ohio. If I had the choice to take a bunch of "newbies" to an open wheel race at the two venues, it would have to be Mid Ohio. The total package is MUCH better.

Don't get me started about the runoffs. I have been watching the Kansas version lately and I swear I dont see a SINGLE FREAKIN' spectator anywhere!

Gary

Gary, they moved that out there because SCCA got a sweet deal on some office space for their HQ at Topeka on the condition they brought the runoffs with them. I hear next year though they are taking the show up to Road America.

As for Mid-Ohio over Cleveland, I have to agree on the racing we had in Cleveland being superior. It isn't that I dislike Mid-Ohio, I quite like it really but for club racing. The bigger cars need some space to stretch out and most road courses are almost too tight.

[drewdawg727]

Cleveland would be a good replacement for Detroit, since they are geographically close and would draw similar crowd.

[garyshell]

Cleveland would be a good replacement for Detroit, since they are geographically close and would draw similar crowd.


Except for the date clash, as was mentioned before there is an air show in Cleveland on that weekend.

Gary

[drewdawg727]

Except for the date clash, as was mentioned before there is an air show in Cleveland on that weekend.

Gary


I wasn't referring to THAT date necessarily, but since Detroit is out Cleveland would be a good replacement for that demographic of people.