Will NA consumers buy the new Fiesta and Focus?

[steve_spackman]

will the new Ford Fiesta and Focus do well in the NA markets?

Been reading a few reviews online and alot of consumers from the NA market say that the cars are too small and would be too expensive.

[anthonyvop]

will the new Ford Fiesta and Focus do well in the NA markets?

Been reading a few reviews online and alot of consumers from the NA market say that the cars are too small and would be too expensive.
Focus is already for sale in the US.

Fiesta will be a tough sell. Too small.

[steve_spackman]

Focus is already for sale in the US.

Fiesta will be a tough sell. Too small.

i mean the new focus that comes out next year...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Focus is already for sale in the US.

Fiesta will be a tough sell. Too small.


Anthony...if the price of gas goes up ( and with Obama around, that is a good possiblity ), that new Focus might be worth something.

The problem is Steve is Americans and the nature of the long distances they often drive (Us Canadians have similar spatial issues with the land we live in) don't like small cars. We Canucks have more of them because the gov't has taxed the price of gas a lot more and we pay closer to the world price than the US. Yet we are not nuts on the current Focus. Ford's rep isn't that great in small cars over here. Unfortunately, the idiots in Detroit have never grasped that if the Euro Fiesta, Escorts, Mondeo's and Foci were all over here when they were a big deal in Europe with the same motors and features, they would have sold to the same people gobbling up Japanese tin cans left and right - the youth market.

I hope the new Focus does well, as does any of the big 3. My countries economy depends on the auto industry shared on both sides of the border having success. Unfortuneately...it is run by idiots....

[gloomyDAY]

Post some pictures.

I'm not sure whether you mean UK Ford Focus or American Ford Focus.

The UK version is sold in Mexico and looks quite nice, but it's difficult to get it registered here in the United States.

[Jag_Warrior]

Unfortunately, the idiots in Detroit have never grasped that if the Euro Fiesta, Escorts, Mondeo's and Foci were all over here when they were a big deal in Europe with the same motors and features, they would have sold to the same people gobbling up Japanese tin cans left and right - the youth market.

I agree. While they were making great margins from SUV's and pickups, they never developed a real Plan B for when the party ended. Now the Big 2 are tripping over themselves to refit pickup and SUV plants to build the small cars that they're already 5-10 years behind on. And Chrysler, after killing the Neon and not having anything worthwhile in the pipeline, is wh*ring itself to Fiat to get a few small car platforms... that won't arrive until after the day of the funeral.

But yeah, Honda and Toyota (especially with the Scion brand) were smart to offer cars to the younger set and move 'em up to Acuras and Lexuses as they matured. GM started out well with the Saturn brand and then fubared it into nothing.

Ford might actually make it. But with Hyundai/Kia gaining share and the overall market being so bad now, who knows? I don't know much about the Euro Focus but I've heard that it's better than the one we have now. I can't place the Euro Fiesta. What is it, about the size of a Corolla or a Civic? We saw the Mondeo in the Jag X-type. I test drove one before I bought my last car and I thought it was overpriced, underpowered and sloppily built. The only attractive feature to me was the AWD. But there were other AWD platforms from other makers that cost less and performed better. X-type sales finally fell off so bad that I don't think they've been sold here in a year or two. But bringing these types of cars over is probably the best shot that Ford has to survive.

They just have to find a way to manufacture these cars in North America and still make a decent profit. I think the fat margin days of SUV's and pickups are pretty much over.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jag...the thought in Detroit was Small cars make small profits. The thing is, you hook the youth on your small cars and keep them for life if the small car is a good car and breeds the loyalty you want. How many Corolla and Sentra owners went on to own Camry's and Maximas?

Detroit has an institutional arrogance they just seem to have holding them back.

As for Chrysler and their missing the small car market, I think the Caliber was a gamble that they thought the SUV wannabes who wanted a small price tag would go for. They were trying to bend or change their niche in the market. Chrysler gambles.....which I can respect. Drive a Cobalt and you just want a nap. GM doesn't gamble...GM just is boring. Ditto Ford....which is a shame because the way Steve talks about these Foci in Britain, I do think we are missing a hot little car...

[Easy Drifter]

Not so sure I agree on the Cobalt. It can be tossed about pretty good in stock trim and has good power. Both Judy and I drive Cobalts and she agrees. Both are Automatics but we will shift them manually on occasion.
There are all sorts of hop up goodies available. Check out the results of the touring race at Daytona. Georgian Bay is a Cdn. team.
There are also some pretty fast ones racing at Mosport out of Gunther Schmidt's operation in Midland.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Drifter...say it it isn't so? Gunter is racing Cobalts? Oh boy.....Mr. VW goes domestic....I have to run into Gunter and find out what brought this silliness on...

[Easy Drifter]

Yup. He ran one at Daytona too.
He also rolled one into a little ball at the bottom of 2 at Mosport last fall in a 3hr. race. He was leading at the time in front of a Viper (the eventual winner) amongst others.
Got caught out in the rain.

[El Libertador]

I don't see the Fiesta selling too well. The Fit looks better and probably is a better car. Depending on what this new Focus looks like, I could see that being a decent seller. They just have to improve the gas mileage; the current US gets 32 mpg highway; Corolla gets 36-38 and has better reliability. But regardless of how the Focus and Fiesta do, Ford isn't the one I'm worried about. They are run by the smallest idiot of the three and are actually on the verge of putting out some cars that will sell (new Focus, new Mustang, new Taurus, new Fusion). None of them are particularly attractive, but they aren't as repulsive as what Ford has been putting out, and the Fusion hybrid's gas mileage is very good (41 city, 36 highway), if you can believe it (granted, I think the grille is hideous, but a lot of people love it).

[steve_spackman]

Jag...the thought in Detroit was Small cars make small profits. The thing is, you hook the youth on your small cars and keep them for life if the small car is a good car and breeds the loyalty you want. How many Corolla and Sentra owners went on to own Camry's and Maximas?

Detroit has an institutional arrogance they just seem to have holding them back.

As for Chrysler and their missing the small car market, I think the Caliber was a gamble that they thought the SUV wannabes who wanted a small price tag would go for. They were trying to bend or change their niche in the market. Chrysler gambles.....which I can respect. Drive a Cobalt and you just want a nap. GM doesn't gamble...GM just is boring. Ditto Ford....which is a shame because the way Steve talks about these Foci in Britain, I do think we are missing a hot little car...

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/First-Official-Pictures/Ford-Focus-RS-the-first-pictures/

http://www.1resimler.com/data/media/1073/ford-focus-st.jpg

www.forddesktops.com (http://www.forddesktops.com)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/micro_machines/2010_ford_fiesta_mini_test_road_test

[Mark in Oshawa]

El Lib...if the price of gas goes up, the Fiesta should sell. If the kids glom onto it and it is easy enough for them to get their hands on it, it should sell.

Ford is better run than the other big three but they too fall into some pretty dopey traps in their marketing. The fact is they keep changing what their philosophy in styling is. 10 years ago they were all oval shapes. Then they went on an edgy sort of kick. Lately all the cars were boring with that 3 bar grill save the Mustang. They have put out some of the dullest cars imaginable the last decade and they are still in better shape likely than GM or Chrysler who have at least pushed the edge on occasion. I am always scratching my head how they can lose focus on what the market will be 3 years hence and yet Toyota and the Japanese seem to manage to adapt.

[Mark]

I own a new style Fiesta the same one they will be selling in the us. It is slightly bigger than the outgoing model but it is still a small car. It is just the same size as all the other super-mini's really which are the most popular type of car here. It is not just fuel but also parking and narrow roads you have to consider.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I saw a recent interview with Bob Lutz of GM and he basically came right out and said that most of the cars that work in Europe wont sell to North American consumers is because when fuel is 25% of what people in Europe pay, there is little or no incentive to buy a car like the Fiesta or Smart or whatever.

Of course, it is the gov't tax on fuel in the EC that keeps petrol and gas this high and it was in his opinion a mistake American politicians may have made 30 years ago to maybe not bring in some form of creep on gas.

It is the price of gas that determines how a car buying public picks cars for the most part. In Canada, we pay about 30% to 50% more at times than the US market for gasoline. As a result, smaller cars gain a lot more market traction here. Similar cultures, tougher climate, and greater distances yet if you make us pay enough for gas, we will go more towards 4 cyl. cars.

The US has always gravitated to the big cars because they could afford to. We generate a lifestyle around our vehicles in a car culture that has grown in North America. There are many reasons for this culture being as powerful as it is but in the end, it almost is against the grain for Americans in particular to really fall in love en mass for small cars, ESPECIALLY when they are domestic brands.

This new Fiesta sounds like a great car and the new Focus looks cool....but I am into small cars and efficient powertrains. I have owned until now only one "mid size" car of any size and as much as I would love to have a Hemi engined Dodge Challenger, it isnt justified with the price of gas being what it was and likely will be and my current financial goals. I am however in a minority. Most people I know with families all want the SUV and trucks because they work for their usage. I personally think the minivan is a far more efficient vehicle...but it aint cool. And when it comes to small cars, they are for the most part not seen as cool, even in a little more small car friendly society that we have in Canada.

[MrJan]

They just have to improve the gas mileage; the current US gets 32 mpg highway; Corolla gets 36-38 and has better reliability. But regardless of how the Focus and Fiesta do, Ford isn't the one I'm worried about. They are run by the smallest idiot of the three and are actually on the verge of putting out some cars that will sell (new Focus, new Mustang, new Taurus, new Fusion). None of them are particularly attractive, but they aren't as repulsive as what Ford has been putting out, and the Fusion hybrid's gas mileage is very good (41 city, 36 highway), if you can believe it (granted, I think the grille is hideous, but a lot of people love it).

32 mpg???? What size engine is that because I would expect that sort of poor economy from my MR2, not a Focus. Diesel is the way to go if you want to go distance, modern diesels really should be around 50 and upwards (depending on the engine of course).

TBH though small cars will never really sell in NA because there is no need. Over here most cars from the US look ridiculous because they are just too big for what we need them for. I saw a woman driving a Escalade the other day and it just made me laugh because she gains nothing over the owner of a decent estate car, apart from thinking that she looks cool. Unfortunately these sort of cars are becoming more popular over in the UK because most of the people that live here are idiots who see something on a US TV show and think that it will be good here, like the d***heads near me who drive Hummers down the narrow country lanes we have.

[Easy Drifter]

That 32 MPG will be the smaller US gallon as opposed to the Imp. Gallon.

[El Libertador]

The other thing is the California emission standards and the US's ridiculous safety standards (all cars must be proven to be safe for the driver if the driver is not wearing a seatbelt, why not just make it illegal to not wear a seatbelt, like it is in most states, and put some legal garbage in the owner's manual, and then you won't get sued if someone dies while not wearing the seatbelt) make it so that cars in America have to weigh a lot more, so they get worse gas mileage. I WISH the Fiesta etc would sell, anyone who says they need an SUV is out of their mind, unless they have 8 kids.

[Jag_Warrior]

Excellent point, E/D. I think we forget about that sometimes. Here's a site with a volume conversion tool that I use.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/tools/fuel-trip-calculator/fuel-calculator-input.cfm?attr=16

[Mark in Oshawa]

32 mpg???? What size engine is that because I would expect that sort of poor economy from my MR2, not a Focus. Diesel is the way to go if you want to go distance, modern diesels really should be around 50 and upwards (depending on the engine of course).

Mr. Yeo, with the diffrences in gallons between the US Gallon and the Imperial Gallon, you can take the US figure and basically multiply them by 102% usually and get a more realistic number. Also, the EPA measured mileage is based on a rather rigid and somewhat unrealistic test they give to all cars to measure and give them a rating. Usually the mileage can be higher if the driver is trying to be economical.

US and Canadian cars have too much added safety crap that isn't law in Europe and that accounts for poorer performance.

As for driving and Esclade in Britian...gauche...no class. But then again, I haven't seen the point of having one here either. I like cars..not trucks. I drive a big rig for a living, I cant see the point in trying to duplicate that experience to drive around town. Wasteful as hell...but hey, you are free in this society to buy a vehicle that says "I have too much money and want to waste it!"

[Rollo]

The problem is Steve is Americans and the nature of the long distances they often drive (Us Canadians have similar spatial issues with the land we live in) don't like small cars.

That's the excuse. The distances in Australia are as long if not longer and we don't necessarily have that problem. On the Hume Highway between Sydney and Melbourne, it's not uncommon to find Yarii, Barinas (read Opel Corsa and currently Chev Aveo)

The average price of petrol in Canada as of the time of posting was 84.659c which I can only assume is per litre. If so, then that's $A1.08/L or 47.59p/L, in real terms that's a laugh. This therefore is the real reason:


I saw a recent interview with Bob Lutz of GM and he basically came right out and said that most of the cars that work in Europe wont sell to North American consumers is because when fuel is 25% of what people in Europe pay, there is little or no incentive to buy a car like the Fiesta or Smart or whatever.

And when it comes to small cars, they are for the most part not seen as cool, even in a little more small car friendly society that we have in Canada.

Nobody in the USA wants to be seen in a small car and for this they miss out of the fact that a lot of small cars have tremendous chuckability. Fiesta 7 like Fiesta 6 excels in corners, and easily has the legs to remain at 90mph all day.

The NA Fiesta looks like this:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/2011fiesta/
I do find the following quote from the website somewhat laughable:
It's huge around the globe and its latest incarnation is taking Europe by storm. It's the first of Ford's new global family of small cars

The first of Ford's new global family? Huh? It's fiesta SEVEN, and also the ninth car to feature Ford's "Kinetic" design language. The first was the '06 S-Max.

[steve_spackman]

That's the excuse. The distances in Australia are as long if not longer and we don't necessarily have that problem. On the Hume Highway between Sydney and Melbourne, it's not uncommon to find Yarii, Barinas (read Opel Corsa and currently Chev Aveo)

The average price of petrol in Canada as of the time of posting was 84.659c which I can only assume is per litre. If so, then that's $A1.08/L or 47.59p/L, in real terms that's a laugh. This therefore is the real reason:



Nobody in the USA wants to be seen in a small car and for this they miss out of the fact that a lot of small cars have tremendous chuckability. Fiesta 7 like Fiesta 6 excels in corners, and easily has the legs to remain at 90mph all day.

The NA Fiesta looks like this:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/2011fiesta/
I do find the following quote from the website somewhat laughable:
It's huge around the globe and its latest incarnation is taking Europe by storm. It's the first of Ford's new global family of small cars

The first of Ford's new global family? Huh? It's fiesta SEVEN, and also the ninth car to feature Ford's "Kinetic" design language. The first was the '06 S-Max.

The thing i dislike is the fact that when they bring a European Ford to the NA market, they seem to change nearly everything about the car.Lets hope that Ford NA dont ruin the fiesta..by smothering the front of the car with chrome
I do however hope that the Fiesta does well in the US...Ford dont have any cars in the current line up to contend with the other small cars from other car makers

Also on the website it says that preference for someone to test drive it is for someone who can drive manual. Thats going to be a tough one as MOST americans drive auto and have no clue how to drive a 'stick shift'.

[steve_spackman]

Ford Ka to the US too???

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/01/12/ford-ka-to-the-u-s-maybe-maybe-not/

[Easy Drifter]

The stick shift vs auto applies to Canada too.
My personal opinion is it should be manditory to be able to drive a manual but there is not a hope of that happening.
Way back in the dark ages when I learned to drive I went to a driving school the taught manual and that was in the 50's! Most were auto even then.
When I taught at a racing school I had the brown stuff scared out of me a couple of times when the student, who had managed upshifts ok just downshifted and let the clutch out. They had never driven a manual before. I soon learned to ask. I sent more than one student away to learn how to change gears. I would tell them how but I wasn't there to give basic driving lessons and I sure wasn't going to do it on a track with other experienced people testing especially at Mosport.

[anthonyvop]

There are more than a few problems with small cars in the US.

They get weighted down with Government mandated crash protection.
They get strangled with Government mandated emission controls that are much stricter than Europes. Our new Diesel is so clean you can cook with it. great for LA. Bad for the limied Diesel market.

A big reason though is Americans commute long distances. The US average is 28 minutes each way. That is just from home to work and back. Then they get home change and drive again to go out for the evening.

I personally enjoy small cars. I own a old Lancia and a Chevy Cobalt but my Daily driver is a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have a long commute and spend at least 2 hours a day behind the wheel.

[Rollo]

The thing i dislike is the fact that when they bring a European Ford to the NA market, they seem to change nearly everything about the car.

Let's hope that they do ruin this abomination:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/230514/shock_new_focus_shows_its_face.html
http://fordnewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/2011-ford-focus.jpg
This in theory is the 2011 Ford Focus, which as far as I'm concerned is too Pug 308 for my liking. Where as Focus 2.1 was bland, 2.2 was a little better, Focus 3 is a regression to Focus 1 sort of.

[Easy Drifter]

A couple of more reasons why most cars are automatics in NA are the roads. Long straight stretches and fewer and fewer roads where you can have a little fun. The traffic is getting heavier and heavier plus many of the fun roads are being improved and staightened. There are very few highways where you cannot just run at or above the speed limit all the time. Most people now just put it on cruise control and sort of steer.
Most of the fun roads I know are in such rough shape you do not want to push anyway. When they finally fix them they staighten them.
Then there is city traffic. Mostly stop and go with traffic lights everywhere. The majority of people just do not want to be bothered constantly shifting gears, especially as this is hard to do with a coffee in one hand and phone or blackberry in the other. It happens all too often! They are steering with their knees. Shaving, eating, applying makeup, reading a paper or a book, doing their hair (both male and female), writing notes. I have seen it all. Even playing a harmonica!

[Mark]

Nobody in the USA wants to be seen in a small car and for this they miss out of the fact that a lot of small cars have tremendous chuckability. Fiesta 7 like Fiesta 6 excels in corners, and easily has the legs to remain at 90mph all day.

I would certainly agree with that, but it's not just engine power. The Mk7 Fiesta also feels very stable at that kind of speed too.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In short, small cars only appeal to those of us who aren't afraid of shifting gears or understand you don't need 4000 lbs of car to get you to work 20 miles away.

As for the distances being an excuse and how Aussies have great distances too...may I remind the reader that in OZ, while they have small cars taking long trips, every Aussie I have talked to loves his/her Falcon's or Commodores/Monaro's too. In Australia, the v8 is still the king of the highway for many. It isn't any different here. People like their power and comfort. Why would anyone take a small car on a long journey if they could afford a more roomy large one? It always will come back to affordability of fuel.

[steve_spackman]

In short, small cars only appeal to those of us who aren't afraid of shifting gears or understand you don't need 4000 lbs of car to get you to work 20 miles away.

As for the distances being an excuse and how Aussies have great distances too...may I remind the reader that in OZ, while they have small cars taking long trips, every Aussie I have talked to loves his/her Falcon's or Commodores/Monaro's too. In Australia, the v8 is still the king of the highway for many. It isn't any different here. People like their power and comfort. Why would anyone take a small car on a long journey if they could afford a more roomy large one? It always will come back to affordability of fuel.

I also think that what with Ford NA and GM making hybrid SUVs and trucks, people will stick with them.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I also think that what with Ford NA and GM making hybrid SUVs and trucks, people will stick with them.

Maybe...but they have to work and provide enough of a savings in fuel costs to counteract the cost of the technology. The Prius is a great car but for what it gets mileage wise over a standard Corolla, it isn't worth the additional 15000 dollars. Yet people buy them because it is a fashion statement...

[Rollo]

As for the distances being an excuse and how Aussies have great distances too...may I remind the reader that in OZ, while they have small cars taking long trips, every Aussie I have talked to loves his/her Falcon's or Commodores/Monaro's too. In Australia, the v8 is still the king of the highway for many. It isn't any different here. People like their power and comfort. Why would anyone take a small car on a long journey if they could afford a more roomy large one? It always will come back to affordability of fuel.

People also say that they love Ferraris and Porsches too, but you don't see hoards of them on the roads. For your supposition to work then the sales figures would have to match up, but they don't.

I don't have the 2008 sales figures yet (they get released on Feb 12) but if 2008 follows the trend of 2007, then Commodore and Falcon will slip even further down the charts. Commodore for 2007 came in at No.6 whereas Falcon didn't even make the top ten. Mitsubishi's 380 saw such poor sales that Mitsubishi abandonded production of the 380 altogether.

Holden has been handed $120m by the Federal Government to build the facilities to produce a smaller car, and Ford intends to produce the Focus in Australia from 2011. As it is, the Toyota Corolla has been top of the stack for about 2 years now.

Aside: Detriot killed the Monaro in 2005.

[Jag_Warrior]

Let's hope that they do ruin this abomination:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/230514/shock_new_focus_shows_its_face.html
http://fordnewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/2011-ford-focus.jpg
This in theory is the 2011 Ford Focus, which as far as I'm concerned is too Pug 308 for my liking. Where as Focus 2.1 was bland, 2.2 was a little better, Focus 3 is a regression to Focus 1 sort of.

From that angle it looks a lot like an 08+ Subaru Impreza hatchback, although with a much (IMO) better looking front fascia.

If that's close to what it's going to look like, it comes with some decent drivetrain and interior options and the build quality is good, I could see that taking off pretty well in the U.S.... depending on pricing.

[Mark]

Well the front lights look like the same ones they use in the current Fiesta.

[Daniel]

Let's hope that they do ruin this abomination:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/230514/shock_new_focus_shows_its_face.html
http://fordnewsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/2011-ford-focus.jpg
This in theory is the 2011 Ford Focus, which as far as I'm concerned is too Pug 308 for my liking. Where as Focus 2.1 was bland, 2.2 was a little better, Focus 3 is a regression to Focus 1 sort of.
Rollo, why have you quoted the least reliable source in the world for car news? :confused:

I've translated the AutoExpress article below for those who want to know what it really means

The heat is on in the compact hatch sector – Auto Express has lied about Ford is readying new Focus to go head-to-head with Vauxhall’s forthcoming Astra.

Boasting a wild new look – dreamt up by the guy in the office who can use photoshop – it will be real bland, and is set to bore you with innocuous styling like never before.

Power comes from the very latest EcoBoost range of turbocharged engines, while to make this article seem interesting to the sort of person who reads AE we speculate that the cabin will feature an all-new BMW iDrive-style control system because that sounds impressive doesn't it? I mean imagine technology from a BMW on a Ford!!!!!!!! If we were Ford we'd sooooo do that! As with the Mondeo, the Focus will get even more bland with greater emphasis paying off the British media to write sycophantic Ford loving articles more than we've done previously – as well as a higher price tag than the current generation so when we discount them it looks like you're saving a lot of money which is good isn't it because we like to help people in these days of difficult credit.

And that’s only the tip of the iceberg. According to our sister magazine in Germany, the equally dodgy and rather misleading Auto Bild, the five-door model pictured here will be joined by a Focus-based coupé. This will have a bland three-door shape to copy the likes of the VW Scirocco and Renault’s new Mégane Coupé. It will help differentiate the Focus range and in the process appeal to sad fools who can't afford a proper coupe while giving them something to show off in the work car park to people who will shake their heads in disbelief at how ugly and pointless the thing is.

However, it won’t be the Focus or even a new coupé that spearheads Ford’s attack on the bland family car class. While the third-generation model will be launched in late 2010, the blue oval will go into battle first in 2009, with a replacement for the C-MAX compact little turd carrier. As we made up in Issue 1,023, the new MPV will be available in both five and seven-seater form for the first time. Debuting a dramatic new face to attempt to distract you from the fact you couldn't keep it in your pants and now you need to drive a soul crushing people carrier, it will preview the third-generation Focus and be based on Ford’s new compact family platform. And as you can see from this illustration, the new face is certainly nothing like that you'll actually see on the actual car. Designers probably haven't come close to finalising the design so we speculate that it will have a horseshoe-shaped radiator grille, I mean why the hell not? That sounds cool doesn't it?

<Note to self - insert some stuff here talking about styling and try to make links with current models to lend the article some much needed credibility>

There are important new developments under the bonnet, too. Just as the Vauxhall Astra will boast a fresh line-up of small capacity turbocharged engines, the third-generation Focus will feature Ford’s new EcoBoost range (see panel right). Power for entry-level models will come from a some engine we've made up. The majority of sales will be taken by a new 1.6-litre turbo available in both 148bhp and 178bhp form. These new units will offer great performance and low CO2 emissions, too.

And in news that has probably been known widely for months and months, Ford also has two new oil-burners up its sleeve: a 1.6-litre TDCi with 89bhp, 108bhp or 128bhp, and a 2.0-litre with 168bhp or 197bhp. All engines get manual gearboxes as standard, although Ford will expand the use of its PowerShift twin-clutch transmission.

The Focus which will bear little or no resemblance to out photochops will go on sale in late 2010, with no three-door coupé arriving in the same year, plus an estate and for some inexplicable reason a horrid looking CC coupé-cabrio appearing in 2011 by which time you'll have forgotten how wrong we were and will be waiting for the 2014 Ford Focus which we think will look like a pint glass

[Rollo]

A big reason though is Americans commute long distances. The US average is 28 minutes each way. That is just from home to work and back. Then they get home change and drive again to go out for the evening.

From the Book of the Year 2007 (Australian Bureau of Statistics), the average commuting time for the six capital cities of Australia is 72 minutes, and 53.589km.
Assuming that the US average is only 28 minutes, and that you're moving at 60mph then that would be an average commute only of 28miles, compared to 33miles in Australia.
Again, I fail to see why that's a reason.

Mr Daniel. Said picture of the Focus comes from Auto Bild. The most reliable source would be FoMoCo, but given that there car probably won't even make a public show until the Frankfurt Motor Show of 2010, anything by that logic would be WMDs or Wild Mass Discussion.

[Mark in Oshawa]

From the Book of the Year 2007 (Australian Bureau of Statistics), the average commuting time for the six capital cities of Australia is 72 minutes, and 53.589km.
Assuming that the US average is only 28 minutes, and that you're moving at 60mph then that would be an average commute only of 28miles, compared to 33miles in Australia.
Again, I fail to see why that's a reason.

Mr Daniel. Said picture of the Focus comes from Auto Bild. The most reliable source would be FoMoCo, but given that there car probably won't even make a public show until the Frankfurt Motor Show of 2010, anything by that logic would be WMDs or Wild Mass Discussion.

Rollo...you ignore the other fact that IS making the difference between the US and OZ. The price of gas. Canada's price is similar to Australia's and we have more 4cyl cars than the US. I suspect the auto demographics between Canada and Australia would be similar, and our average commute in cities like Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto is easily pushing close to an hour.

[Rollo]

Rollo...you ignore the other fact that IS making the difference between the US and OZ. The price of gas.

Um, I agreed with you at the top of this very page:

The average price of petrol in Canada as of the time of posting was 84.659c which I can only assume is per litre. If so, then that's $A1.08/L or 47.59p/L, in real terms that's a laugh. This therefore is the real reason:


I saw a recent interview with Bob Lutz of GM and he basically came right out and said that most of the cars that work in Europe wont sell to North American consumers is because when fuel is 25% of what people in Europe pay, there is little or no incentive to buy a car like the Fiesta or Smart or whatever.

There is no impetus to buy small cars in the USA. Americans can afford and in fact DEMAND to sit in traffic for hours, because the notion of taking a train which might be a government owned system is communistic and therefore evil.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Um, I agreed with you at the top of this very page:



There is no impetus to buy small cars in the USA. Americans can afford and in fact DEMAND to sit in traffic for hours, because the notion of taking a train which might be a government owned system is communistic and therefore evil.

oops on the first one there Rollo...I missed that in my speed read.

AS for taking the train, NO, Americans in San Fransicisco take the train. In the NY/NJ metro area they eagerly take the train, and Amtrak makes money likely in the northeast corridor from commuters. It isn't that Americans see the train as a communist plot. It is that Americans can afford that extra freedom of the private automobile. The flexablity of lifestyle is a lot of it. Add in the terrible commuter systems in most cities (terrible in that you lose even more time waiting for bus connectors) and it does explain a lot. Now should they have a better public transit system? Hell yes...but it has been proven you need high population densities to make the system economically viable. In spread out America, you get outside of New York and the subway and commuter rail systems do NOT make money.

Heck, in Canada, Toronto has a very high population density yet the public transit system just isnt' responsive enough and ridership is starting to tail off. The Commuter rail system "the GO Train" often has delays due to union conflicts (once or twice a year), or weather (yes...Snow in Canada...who knew?). IF you cannot rely on your transit to get you to work on time then you start driving.

Unlike Europe, the car can make more sense here economically and freedom wise (freedom to come and go on your schedule and pick up or do things after work) for many. It is partially to our discredit that public transit doesn't operate better, but the subsidies to make to happen are coming from fuel taxes in both the US and Canada. If we all stopped driving, the increase in ridership fares wouldn't counteract the lost taxes collected....

[steve_spackman]

oops on the first one there Rollo...I missed that in my speed read.

AS for taking the train, NO, Americans in San Fransicisco take the train. In the NY/NJ metro area they eagerly take the train, and Amtrak makes money likely in the northeast corridor from commuters. It isn't that Americans see the train as a communist plot. It is that Americans can afford that extra freedom of the private automobile. The flexablity of lifestyle is a lot of it. Add in the terrible commuter systems in most cities (terrible in that you lose even more time waiting for bus connectors) and it does explain a lot. Now should they have a better public transit system? Hell yes...but it has been proven you need high population densities to make the system economically viable. In spread out America, you get outside of New York and the subway and commuter rail systems do NOT make money.

Heck, in Canada, Toronto has a very high population density yet the public transit system just isnt' responsive enough and ridership is starting to tail off. The Commuter rail system "the GO Train" often has delays due to union conflicts (once or twice a year), or weather (yes...Snow in Canada...who knew?). IF you cannot rely on your transit to get you to work on time then you start driving.

Unlike Europe, the car can make more sense here economically and freedom wise (freedom to come and go on your schedule and pick up or do things after work) for many. It is partially to our discredit that public transit doesn't operate better, but the subsidies to make to happen are coming from fuel taxes in both the US and Canada. If we all stopped driving, the increase in ridership fares wouldn't counteract the lost taxes collected....

In Arkansas your lucky to see a bus..In one week i saw a total of 4. I think the buses run something like one a hour and even then the things are near enough empty

[Easy Drifter]

Toronto has a semi good transit system.
Years ago when I lived in Scarborough (part of Toronto) and worked right downtown transit involved a bus, light rail transit and 2 subway lines or 2 busses and 2 subway lines. Time 1 3/4 to 2 hours. Driving, including walking from parking lot 3/4 hr.
When I moved to Orillia I still worked downtown TO for a while. Drove to Barrie and GO train. In those days 1 train only. Drive time 1/2 hr plus 1.55 on train plus 15 min. walk.
If you didn't work right downtown it was useless as there were no stops in TO except right downtown.
Driving 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 total. Then they cancelled the train. I had left my TO job by then.
Compare my driving commute time to Orillia (about 85 miles) to my transit commute time in Scarborough, 15 miles.
Today their are 3 trains from Barrie and I believe the time is a little less.
Still no more stops although I think they are going to add one near York University when they get a subway line there. York has 50,000 students and once there is decent transportation from that area to more of TO the train will get more passengers from Barrie and points down to Maple currently the last stop outside of Downtown TO.
That is why so many people drive as opposed to transit.

[GridGirl]

But they do they new Fiesta in pink. I already want to ditch my stripes and get a new one. :D ;) If the North Americans don't then I will. Although my one puchase is hardly going to save Ford. :p

[Mark]

But they do they new Fiesta in pink. I already want to ditch my stripes and get a new one. :D ;) If the North Americans don't then I will. Although my one puchase is hardly going to save Ford. :p

hehe, you know you want it ;) . Although they aren't doing the 2.0L petrol any more, it'll not be as quick as your old car.

Mind you if your driving between Brum and Leeds a lot you might want to look at the Econetic version, very light on the diesel.

[GridGirl]

I'll be moving to Leeds anyway once I get a job. I bought my currently Fiesta because it was pretty and it just happened that the 2.0L petrol was the only engine it came with. I will happily swap to a smaller engine if I can have a pink one even if the paint does cost £525. :)

I really can't imagine Americans ditching the SUVs for pink Fiestas though. :p

[Mark]

I'll be moving to Leeds anyway once I get a job. I bought my currently Fiesta because it was pretty and it just happened that the 2.0L petrol was the only engine it came with. I will happily swap to a smaller engine if I can have a pink one even if the paint does cost £525. :)

I really can't imagine Americans ditching the SUVs for pink Fiestas though. :p

I do hear that the 1.6 petrol engine, if not quite up to ST standards, is pretty good.

[Jag_Warrior]

I really can't imagine Americans ditching the SUVs for pink Fiestas though. :p

Hmm hmm. I think that's a pretty safe bet. :p American soccer moms have been some of the biggest buyers of SUV's. And for whatever reason, they seem to want the most macho vehicle they can get their hands on.

I don't think I'm quite ready for a pink Fiesta, but I'm a tall person who has almost always gone for smaller, sporty cars. My only limitation on size is if I can't get my legs to fit within; I can't comfortably drive a Nissan Versa. But unless it's a rental, I would NEVER drive a Hummer, Escalade, Explorer or Expedition. I really think there is some compensatory psychological reason why a lot of smaller people (men and women) in the U.S. have an attraction to land yachts. If I had 5 kids, yeah, I'd get some sort of civillian personnel carrier. But I'd get something like a Subaru Forester - not some cartoonish, squeaking, gas hog, like an H3 Hummer (they really are dreadful vehicles).

[Easy Drifter]

Then you get ol' f--ts like me. I love sporty cars but my knees don't. Ten+ plus years of pretending to be a hockey goalie plus 30 odd years of working on race cars, often in less than ideal conditions, have done them in.
I more or less have to be able to fall into a car. Well not quite, but!
Doc says they are not bad enough for replacements. Some days I think he is nuts!

[Daniel]

I do hear that the 1.6 petrol engine, if not quite up to ST standards, is pretty good.
Are they not bringing out a 1.6 turbo?

[Rollo]

The rumour mill says that the ST is due in late '09, with the RS in mid '10. Both will be the 1.6L Turbo engine. The RS is probably going to be good for 200 horsies and about £17K. FoMoCo haven't as yet put out a press release though.

[Mark]

Are they not bringing out a 1.6 turbo?

Apparently yes, but as Rollo says not for another year or so. Similar to when the old Fiesta was out they want to get the new models firmly established first as get as much milage (pardon the pun!) out of them as they can before they introduce a 'better' Fiesta.

Of course, I already have a 1.6 turbo ;)

[Daniel]

Apparently yes, but as Rollo says not for another year or so. Similar to when the old Fiesta was out they want to get the new models firmly established first as get as much milage (pardon the pun!) out of them as they can before they introduce a 'better' Fiesta.

Of course, I already have a 1.6 turbo ;)

Yes but it's a diseasel. Diseasel's have very unsatisfying power delivery. Drive a petrol car with a turbo and you'll see what I mean :D :burnout:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Daniel, the VW TDI Turbo Diesels scoot along just fine. They race them in showroom stock condition with the SCCA Jetta series and they move along at a very entertaining clip. Don't knock it till you try it...oh wait a minute, the engine does all the "knocking" for you...

[Daniel]

Daniel, the VW TDI Turbo Diesels scoot along just fine. They race them in showroom stock condition with the SCCA Jetta series and they move along at a very entertaining clip. Don't knock it till you try it...oh wait a minute, the engine does all the "knocking" for you...

Still not my kettle of fish. Even if the power delivery is twice as good as in the Peugeot 406 I've been driving for 2 years now I'd still not have one. Uber-economical small petrol engined car or turbocharged car for me.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Still not my kettle of fish. Even if the power delivery is twice as good as in the Peugeot 406 I've been driving for 2 years now I'd still not have one. Uber-economical small petrol engined car or turbocharged car for me.


Now wait a minute. If the car is TWICE as good in power delivery, you wouldn't consider it? So basically twice the power?

Heck, with diesel cheaper in Europe, I would be hard pressed to justify NOT having one. In Canada we are getting hosed about 10 to 20cents more per liter for Diesel...I know you have to have a lot more mileage to compesate for 20% higher price at the pumps....

[Daniel]

Now wait a minute. If the car is TWICE as good in power delivery, you wouldn't consider it? So basically twice the power?

Heck, with diesel cheaper in Europe, I would be hard pressed to justify NOT having one. In Canada we are getting hosed about 10 to 20cents more per liter for Diesel...I know you have to have a lot more mileage to compesate for 20% higher price at the pumps....

Diesel is about 10p (roughly 10%) more expensive here (in the UK) too.

Caroline's car (Subaru Legacy Turbo awd so it's pretty thirsty) does about 30mpg on a good day and my 406 does just over 40mpg. Sure you could get a newer diseasel which gives better MPG but with particulate filters the diesels of today get are starting to get killed in regards to economy when you consider the extra cost of diesel. The Subaru is pretty old too, it's 15 years old and still it's a crapload quicker than my pug 6.5s 0-60 compared to 16 for the pug but to be fair my 406 has a fairly old school engine. Sure modern diesels are a bit quicker and an A4 3.0 TDI Quattro is a shade quicker to 60 and no doubt probably a little quicker in gear but it requires 1.5 times the displacement of the 2l turbo in Carolines car to do the job. It also gets MPG figures which are barely better than the Subaru :mark: No doubt a newer Scooby would be much quicker and a bit more economical to drive as well! Caroline's Subaru has just had a complete replacement of the timing belt and all the tensioners as well as the pulleys, an oil change and two new tyres so should be even more economical now. I'll go for a nice drive tomorrow and try to not be a hooligan and see what MPG figures I can coax out of it. I reckon I could get 35mpg out of it and closer to 40 if I drove like a saint. I wonder what the Audi would do if you thrashed it too.

Having a particulate filter on your car (which cars in NA have to have to meet your strict emissions regs) will cost you anything from 5-10mpg and with direct injection petrols becoming more and more common MPG figures for petrol cars are starting to rise and when they start doing things like going camless it'll only get better for petrol cars.

A few years ago I would have said diesel was the answer but I think petrol is coming back with a bang (pun fully intended). As an example of what is being done on the side of petrol I'll wheel out my standard example of Fiat's Multiair technology which is enabling them to downsize from a 1.2 petrol 4 cylinder engine to a 900cc 2 cylinder engine which means they lose 20% of the weight from the engine. get 15% better fuel economy and better emissions and slightly better performance too.

Diesels are fine on bigger cars anyway because to be fair they are economical in bigger cars but on smaller cars the weight penalty of a diesel isn't worth it as well as the fact that quite often you will have to have a heavier duty drivetrain to deal with all the torque. Ask Mark about how much better his 1.6 turbo diesel Fiesta is on fuel than his old 1.4 Fiesta ;) You'll be surprised......

[Mark in Oshawa]

lol....I can just say my daily driver for my job is a diesel, 515 hp, 1400 ft/lbs of torque...but man if I get 7 mpg I am doing well. Of course, that daily driver can pull 46000 lbs of payload so......

[vauxhall corsa]

fiesta's are good for younger driver's

[Daniel]

lol....I can just say my daily driver for my job is a diesel, 515 hp, 1400 ft/lbs of torque...but man if I get 7 mpg I am doing well. Of course, that daily driver can pull 46000 lbs of payload so......

7 mpg isn't too bad considering! Well the results are in and I managed to get 37mpg out of the Subaru which I think is pretty good. It was a round trip from the petrol station to the petrol station so no funny stuff there, I didn't get passed by anyone because I was going too slow and neither did I hold anyone up either until we got on the dual carriageway and the sillies came out and started doing stupid speeds for the conditions and overtaking across solid lines :mark: I think I could still get it up to 40 but I think 37 shows that an old school turbo petrol doesn't need to be all that thirsty. I didn't actually drive all that different from my normal driving style either which is a lot of short shifting, not accelerating to the point where I need to brake, no braking unless there is a real need for it and only accelerating gradually.

So why get a diesel? Why get a diesel when the fuel is 10% more expensive, the car is more expensive and it's less satisfying to drive? :) Sure Caroline's car is hardly economical to the max but it's not that bad really and when you feel like putting your foot down you're rewarded with good power delivery and a nice sound rather than all the power in the world then nothing and the horrible diesel sound.

[Camelopard]

Just watched the Top Gear show with the Fiesta, that sort of publicity must be worth a hell of a lot of money to Ford, the chase though the shopping centre was great, I wonder what sort of insurance premiums they pay! Mind you they were only up against a corvette..............

The Royal Marines landing was pretty good as well...........

[vauxhall corsa]

both cars are nice but i would rather have the fiesta

[Daniel]

both cars are nice but i would rather have the fiesta
What's the deal with your posts?

[steve_spackman]

Just watched the Top Gear show with the Fiesta, that sort of publicity must be worth a hell of a lot of money to Ford, the chase though the shopping centre was great, I wonder what sort of insurance premiums they pay! Mind you they were only up against a corvette..............

The Royal Marines landing was pretty good as well...........

i enjoyed em both...very very good

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'd like to test drive the new Fiesta and compare it to my Punto. I considered the old Fiesta when I was buying my car but it seemed a little dull. The interior in the new car looks pretty cool, and I bet it will be a hoot to drive.

[Mark]

I'd like to test drive the new Fiesta and compare it to my Punto. I considered the old Fiesta when I was buying my car but it seemed a little dull. The interior in the new car looks pretty cool, and I bet it will be a hoot to drive.

Yes, I hoot every day :crazy:

[steve_spackman]

The Transit Connect goes on sale in the US this summer with a base price of $21,475

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2009_chicago_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2010_ford_transit_connect_auto_shows

[vauxhall corsa]

focus are bigger but the fiesta i think looks nicer

[Daniel]

The interior in the new car looks pretty cool, and I bet it will be a hoot to drive.

Are you partially sighted? :confused:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Are you partially sighted? :confused:

No! Explain? :p

[Rollo]

There's nowt wrong with the console of Fiesta Mk7 at all. Actually with that silver fan-wing-type thing in the middle, it makes quite a refreshing change from the acres of grey plastic that seem to have settled over the dashboards of cars of the past 10 years.
Not surprising Fiesta Mk7's dashboard has just a hint of its sister Mazda 2 DE in there.

I would think that Daniel would find the Toyota Previa/Tarago Mk1 van difficult to look at.

[Daniel]

There's nowt wrong with the console of Fiesta Mk7 at all. Actually with that silver fan-wing-type thing in the middle, it makes quite a refreshing change from the acres of grey plastic that seem to have settled over the dashboards of cars of the past 10 years.
Not surprising Fiesta Mk7's dashboard has just a hint of its sister Mazda 2 DE in there.

I would think that Daniel would find the Toyota Previa/Tarago Mk1 van difficult to look at.

Interiors can be distinctive and still look good. See 500 interior below. It looks good and when you're sitting in it you feel good because someone made an effort for the interior in terms of quality and looks.

http://www.drivebulletin.com/uploaded_images/2008-Fiat-500-Ferrari-Courtesy-Car-731960.jpg

The Fiesta though looks like some teenager designed it. It just looks tacky and has miles of that cheap look bright silvery plastic that manufacturers are trying to go away from in favour of stuff which is visually a bit softer.


No! Explain? :p

See above criticisms of Fiesta interior as well as this picture :mark:

http://www.motoringreport.com/e107_images/newspost_images/2008_ford_fiesta_interior.jpg

[Rollo]

Nowt wrong with that at all. It fits the style and feel of the Fiesta Mk7 well. The 500 interior is deliberately designed to look a little retro because that's what the car is about. Mind you the original 500 was rather spartan it must be said but given the already frugal nature of the car, that was expected.
The Fiesta is an edgy looking car from the outside, and thus the interior should fit no?

The thing is that I have driven both the 500 and the Fiesta Mk7, and the 7 retains its fun Fordy handling, whereas the 500 is gummy. Although I've not driven Ka Mk2, I suspect that because it's based off the 500 and not the Fiesta platform then it would be rubbish.
That's your choice then, style over substance. For my money substance wins in spades.

The other thing of note is that the although the Fiesta is more likely to be owned and driven by girls, the 500 is more likely to be owned by gits.

[Mark]

I didn't like the look of the new dash when the Mk7 was first announced. But having driven one for several months I have to say it works really well.

There are some start up bugs in the audio system. I wonder if Ford do flash upgrades to fix that sort of thing?

[leopard]

The Fiesta though looks like some teenager designed it. It just looks tacky and has miles of that cheap look bright silvery plastic that manufacturers are trying to go away from in favour of stuff which is visually a bit softer.


I think so, adult men would prefer wood panel instead of the plastic, and the fact is that the same cars, wood-paneled one has higher price. While women do not have too much preference, they seem to agree with their husband and children choice, unless women drive the car themselves.


There are some start up bugs in the audio system. I wonder if Ford do flash upgrades to fix that sort of thing?
Have you checked no wire leakage may cause storing into the audio system. Cars used less than a year aren't supposed to have the problem, but to check the problem is a preference so that it gives more function during drive.

[Daniel]

Nowt wrong with that at all. It fits the style and feel of the Fiesta Mk7 well. The 500 interior is deliberately designed to look a little retro because that's what the car is about. Mind you the original 500 was rather spartan it must be said but given the already frugal nature of the car, that was expected.
The Fiesta is an edgy looking car from the outside, and thus the interior should fit no?

The thing is that I have driven both the 500 and the Fiesta Mk7, and the 7 retains its fun Fordy handling, whereas the 500 is gummy. Although I've not driven Ka Mk2, I suspect that because it's based off the 500 and not the Fiesta platform then it would be rubbish.
That's your choice then, style over substance. For my money substance wins in spades.

The other thing of note is that the although the Fiesta is more likely to be owned and driven by girls, the 500 is more likely to be owned by gits.

I agree the 500 doesn't handle the best but we were talking about interiors weren't we? ;) I haven't driven the Fiesta but I having driven the 500 and not having driven the Fiesta I'd probably agree that the 500 doesn't handle as well because the 500 felt rather numb. But we're comparing two different classes of cars so it's not really a fair comparison anyway.

Sure the 500 is meant to be retro but at least it does it well. The Fester doesn't do modern or futuristic well. All it does well is ugly and functional

I'll take substance over style anyday also, but not when it requires selling out to fugliness. Personally even though it's hardly exciting the Fiat Panda has a far better looking interior than the Fester.

http://www.fiat.co.uk/uploadedImages/Fiatcouk/Showroom/Explore/Panda_100_HP/interior_comfort_00.jpg

Ditto Grande Punto
http://www.carwale.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/11.jpg

Heck I even looked at a few VW interiors and they look better than the Fester interior which says a lot. Bringing it back on topic I really doubt Americans will go for the Fester interior, it's just too daring and not daring in a good way. Just ugly daring. I don't have anything against Fords per se, but I just think the fester is ugly outside and a bit bland on the outside and could only be described as daring if you think VW's are daring also and they aren't.

The Fiesta is more likely to be driven by people who like touching squirrels in inappropriate places. Actually wait that's not true I just made that up as you made your little end but up :)

[Mark]

Have you checked no wire leakage may cause storing into the audio system. Cars used less than a year aren't supposed to have the problem, but to check the problem is a preference so that it gives more function during drive.

As usual you make no sense at all!

OK I'll decribe the bugs to make things clear! The audio system has different modes of operation, namely AUX (USB memory stick or line-in), Radio or CD.

If you just use Radio then it's fine when you turn the ignition on the radio comes on and turn it off it goes off.

But if you are using AUX then when turn on the ignition the AUX channel comes on. So far so good, but then you turn the engine on and the radio comes on :s

However if you have a CD in the drive then as soon as you unlock the car (no ignition!) the CD starts playing, and keeps playing even if you lock the car again. You have to physically switch it off, which is very annoying if you've just gone to the car to get something out.

[leopard]

Perhaps it needs manual selector. It sounds not nice if the functions interfere each other. It maybe under period of guarantee...

I think switching on and off audio is not as often as shifting manual transmission. I am fine with it... :)

[Mark]

Perhaps it needs manual selector. It sounds not nice if the functions interfere each other. It maybe under period of guarantee...

I think switching on and off audio is not as often as shifting manual transmission. I am fine with it... :)

Well as long as you are happy :p . And yes, it's only a few months old so it is 'under period of guarantee'. That doesn't mean there is a fix.

[Daniel]

As usual you make no sense at all!

OK I'll decribe the bugs to make things clear! The audio system has different modes of operation, namely AUX (USB memory stick or line-in), Radio or CD.

If you just use Radio then it's fine when you turn the ignition on the radio comes on and turn it off it goes off.

But if you are using AUX then when turn on the ignition the AUX channel comes on. So far so good, but then you turn the engine on and the radio comes on :s

However if you have a CD in the drive then as soon as you unlock the car (no ignition!) the CD starts playing, and keeps playing even if you lock the car again. You have to physically switch it off, which is very annoying if you've just gone to the car to get something out.
That's annoying. I would complain to Ford customer services. Though as in GridGirls case they'll blame you for their crappiness.

[Mark]

That's annoying. I would complain to Ford customer services. Though as in GridGirls case they'll blame you for their crappiness.

I shall have to do more investigation. And probably flatten my battery by starting and restarting the engine. oh and break the starter too. :(

[leopard]

It seem to be that way, we can complain them about the problem, but they may prejudice they are wrongly operated. They maybe responsible for reparation service, usually warranty does not cover the parts.

[Mark]

usually warranty does not cover the parts.

<Arnie>Wrong!</Arnie>

[leopard]

oh, sorry, it's what mentioned in my warranty card. :)

[Rollo]

I'll take substance over style anyday also, but not when it requires selling out to fugliness. Personally even though it's hardly exciting the Fiat Panda has a far better looking interior than the Fester.


Re Panda: There are veritable fields of grey plastic on that dashboard. If you wanted to start a grey plastic farm, then this would be the place to start. Actually, this regresses into a circular argument as I've already said that:

it makes quite a refreshing change from the acres of grey plastic that seem to have settled over the dashboards of cars of the past 10 years.

Ugh, not more grey plastic.

This is what I've been looking at every day for several years:
http://www.chambersmotorgroup.co.uk/images/new-cars/ford-ka-interior.jpg
It's even more spaceshippy than either the Fiesta 7 or the 500, and the cut outs in the doors break up that horrid grey plasticness.

I hope that the bring back cracky blue plastic :D
http://www.originaltin.co.uk/features/pix/ot1-opels-03.jpg

[Mark]

oh, sorry, it's what mentioned in my warranty card. :)

Depends what sort of warranty. If it is for a new car then it's parts and labour for 3 years (with Ford).

Excluding certain things of course, like tyres and if you burn out your clutch within a few months of getting the car ;)

[Daniel]

lol....I can just say my daily driver for my job is a diesel, 515 hp, 1400 ft/lbs of torque...but man if I get 7 mpg I am doing well. Of course, that daily driver can pull 46000 lbs of payload so......

Meant to reply to you before......

Anyhoo went for a bit of a drive on the weekend in Caroline's car and got - wait for it.... and lets consider the car has done almost 200k miles engine has done 100k miles (replaced as the engine swallowed some water as the garage left some sort of inspection plate off) the car has a kerb weight 220kg's more than the Fester, it's 4wd and the engine has it's roots in the 80's so it's not all that efficient - 37mpg! No tricks or anything, just drove it on a hilly twisty route that's just a little under 100 miles long and I wasn't holding up traffic either and I did occasionally wake the turbo up so 40mpg is perfectly doable if you drive like a saint. Add 10% on for the extra cost of diesel and it comes to 40mpg which is what Mark is getting in his supposedly frugal Fester diseasel/

So you really do need to ask yourself if diesel is the right bet for passenger cars these days when a car that is quite well known for being thirsty is matching a smaller modern diesel.

[Daniel]

Re Panda: There are veritable fields of grey plastic on that dashboard. If you wanted to start a grey plastic farm, then this would be the place to start. Actually, this regresses into a circular argument as I've already said that:


Ugh, not more grey plastic.

This is what I've been looking at every day for several years:
http://www.chambersmotorgroup.co.uk/images/new-cars/ford-ka-interior.jpg
It's even more spaceshippy than either the Fiesta 7 or the 500, and the cut outs in the doors break up that horrid grey plasticness.

I hope that the bring back cracky blue plastic :D
http://www.originaltin.co.uk/features/pix/ot1-opels-03.jpg

So horrible silver plastic is the answer to horrible grey plastic? Just because one material isn't to your liking doesn't mean that anything else is automatically better. I actually think that Ka interior looks fine considering the age of the car. Thing is with silver is that it's usually another colour underneath and has been painted and paint can chip and flake and just generally wear badly.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think the dash in the Grande Punto is very dull in comparsion to the new Fiesta. Daniel says it looks like it was designed by a teenager - I was a teenager this time last week!!! :p

[Daniel]

Daniel says it looks like it was designed by a teenager - I was a teenager this time last week!!! :p

Game set match Daniel :s mokin: Teenagers are not good judges of style :)

[GridGirl]

Excluding certain things of course, like tyres and if you burn out your clutch within a few months of getting the car ;)

Clutch number 2 is working just fine. :p

[Daniel]

Clutch number 2 is working just fine. :p
I personally think you were mad to let that slide :) I'd have been onto Ford and kept on at them till they at least covereg the parts or labour or even both.