Rahal gone.....Domino Effect? [Archive]

nigelred5

29th January 2009, 17:42

I don't think the announcement by Rahal should suprise anyone. We have known for months his primary sponsor was gone and his activities in Sportscars led me to believe that his activities would be elsewhere where he could afford to race.

He may however be the first of several to make it official they won't be participating for the full 09 season.

Who has the money to sponsor something very few people are watching?
I'm very curious to see what race attenance figures will look like as well. Last year it was astronomical fuel prices, this year it's unemployment and mortgages.

MDS

29th January 2009, 18:58

Bobby meet Karma

NickFalzone

29th January 2009, 19:10

The loss of Ethanol/EPIC sponsor dollars certainly played a big part in this, but I think there's more to it. Rahal was giving bad vibes around the Sharp/Simmons mess in 2007. I just think Bobby is such a competitor that he couldn't let the team drop to a 2nd or 3rd tier team. They were moving into D&R territory, which is perfectly respectable, but I think BR was only going to be satisfied if they were much more competitive with the AGRs, etc. They probably could have gotten a sponsor for a more moderate program, but the top class program Bobby wanted just wasn't available, so he bowed out. I feel bad for RHR as he showed real promise in 08 on all courses.

garyshell

29th January 2009, 20:35

Not so fast, the fat lady has not sung yet. She is only cleaing her thorat...

Directly attributed to Bobby:

As I said in the quote from the story, as of this time we do not have any sponsorship that will allow us to compete in the IRL in 2009, but by no means does that mean that we are giving up. We are continuing to search for sponsorship to run the 2009 season and to run in the Indianapolis 500 and we feel that there is still time for us to put something together that will allow that to happen.

Gary

El Libertador

29th January 2009, 22:11

I highly doubt they'll find anything, but if RHR has nothing lined up, I could see an Indy-only deal, maybe with IZOD on the sidepods. But that's just speculation. It seems to me if you make the 500, you'll get a sponsor (such as LifeLock coming on with Lazier and Hemelgarn when they made the show). I hope RHR lands something better than Indy-only, though, but I won't get greedy.

Chamoo

30th January 2009, 00:03

Not so fast, the fat lady has not sung yet. She is only cleaing her thorat...

Directly attributed to Bobby:

Gary

This seems like a desperate cry for help from RLR to anyone who is willing to listen.

Jag_Warrior

30th January 2009, 00:52

Bobby meet Karma

:rotflmao:

garyshell

30th January 2009, 04:39

This seems like a desperate cry for help from RLR to anyone who is willing to listen.

Agreed, but it is not the white flag... at least not yet.

Gary

ykiki

30th January 2009, 05:04

Agreed, but it is not the white flag... at least not yet.

Gary

How 'bout beige?

Mark in Oshawa

30th January 2009, 15:30

Bobby meet Karma

You really are a hater aren't ya? Just come out and say it. You are still mad Rahal left Champ Car to join the Tony George 3 ring circus. IT WAS A BUSINESS DECISION!!! Get over it.....just like him pulling out of the IRL now is a BUSINESS DECISION!

Bobby is smart and Letterman is cheap. They wont race in any series if they cant get their money out of it to some extent and they wont race where they cant be competitive. The ALMS allows them to keep their hands in the game for a reasonable price until the economy improves.

As for people being happy Bobby is gone because they cant leave the baggage of 3 years ago behind, I am just feeling bad you have to think that way. Bobby Rahal is one of the few really smart and self made men left in this sport who came out of the cockpit in the 80's and 90's. Mikey Andretti isn't self made since he bought a really good team to start with but Bobby did it all from the ground up and never lost sight of what he was doing. To lose Bobby's participation from the IRL full time is our loss.....

MDS

30th January 2009, 15:50

You really are a hater aren't ya? Just come out and say it. You are still mad Rahal left Champ Car to join the Tony George 3 ring circus. IT WAS A BUSINESS DECISION!!! Get over it.....just like him pulling out of the IRL now is a BUSINESS DECISION!

I'm not angry with him for leaving, I just think how he left was a bit classless. I think his support of Kenny Brack after the crash was lagging. I think taking money from Paul Dana was an unwise decision. I think trying to build his own chasis in 1994 was another anunwise decision. I think putting his son in a rival series was questionably disloyal and counter to his own best interest.

Basically I don't think Bobby has made a number of good decisions and Karma will eventually visit us all.

downtowndeco

30th January 2009, 16:21

Bobby walked when the clowns running CCWS wouldn't give him a straight answer. Looking back he left at EXACTLY the right time.

Karma? It works both ways. Remember that next time you're looking in the mirror.

I'm not angry with him for leaving, I just think how he left was a bit classless. I think his support of Kenny Brack after the crash was lagging. I think taking money from Paul Dana was an unwise decision. I think trying to build his own chasis in 1994 was another anunwise decision. I think putting his son in a rival series was questionably disloyal and counter to his own best interest.

Basically I don't think Bobby has made a number of good decisions and Karma will eventually visit us all.

EagleEye

30th January 2009, 19:05

I'm not angry with him for leaving, I just think how he left was a bit classless. I think his support of Kenny Brack after the crash was lagging. I think taking money from Paul Dana was an unwise decision. I think trying to build his own chasis in 1994 was another anunwise decision. I think putting his son in a rival series was questionably disloyal and counter to his own best interest.

Basically I don't think Bobby has made a number of good decisions and Karma will eventually visit us all.

A lot was written about how Rahal and Fernadez left Champcar, but most spin it into some sinister master plan. That is now how it happend at all.

Champcar had planned to make a huge spalsh that year, with TONS of promises, marketing and exposure. The media kick-off in Long Beach was a joke, at best. The promises that had been made in that off season were not kept and the plan that had been put in place was discarded.

Afteer the media circus that was so very disorganized, he made a smart business decision. And last time I checked he won a 500 since making that decision.

It is hard for many people at this time, in and out of racing.

MDS

30th January 2009, 20:01

If you want to know what a great guy Bobby Rahal is ask Kenny Brack

Cart750hp

31st January 2009, 07:00

I'm not angry with him for leaving, I just think how he left was a bit classless. I think his support of Kenny Brack after the crash was lagging. I think taking money from Paul Dana was an unwise decision. I think trying to build his own chasis in 1994 was another anunwise decision. I think putting his son in a rival series was questionably disloyal and counter to his own best interest.

Basically I don't think Bobby has made a number of good decisions and Karma will eventually visit us all.

Your smell is spreading this thread. You've been taking it personal the time Rahal jumped shipped. Don't try to deny it because the more you respond about believing you don't hate him gets worse everytime.

Karma? Disloyal? Classless? Ever thought of the past rival series was about business and Rahal's just doing it for his business? Get real and be realistic.

If I see Kenny Brack, I'll ask him if Karma discouraged Rahal to run his business.

Dr. Krogshöj

31st January 2009, 08:55

I forgot about it completely but now that you all brought it up, I have something I never understood about Rahal's jumping of the ship back in 2003. How was it a business decision when all his sponsors (Gigante, Office Depot, Roshfrans, Telmex) stayed with his driver in Champ Car with another team?

MDS

31st January 2009, 15:29

Jag_Warrior

31st January 2009, 20:14

For the record I've known Bobby Rahal since I was a kid, and respect him personally for among other things adopting two children. He was nice to me when I was a kid running around the camping area and I still have a signed photo of the two us standing near the Gasoline Alley sign on my wall.

I like Bobby, but lets be frank, his business decisions have led him here, and the way he's treated a number of his drivers is telling.

If you want to know what a great owner Rahal is talk to Michelle Jordain, Kenny Brack and Scott Sharp. I'm not willing to post parts of private conversations on the web, but none of them have much positive to say about Rahal.

And my problem with Rahal isn't that he bailed when the bailing was good, my problem with him is that he waffled for years later. He was worse than Brett Favre in that regard. Up until last year there were constant media reports generated that he would switch series again, that's what I mean by classless. If you move to one series because you think it superior, at least make it seem like you want to be there.

I believe Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi made their decisions to go to the IRL based primarily on sponsor desires. Love them or hate them for it, but they seemingly did what their sponsors wanted. But Bobby began shedding sponsors well prior to CART's fall. One such sponsor supported every racing crusade that Bobby went on, to the tune of millions of dollars a year. When they left Rahal, it was more sudden than gradual. After roughly a decade of support, the word from the bird was, "things aren't adding up." That company went on to sponsor a NASCAR team and an IRL team- so they weren't trying to get out of racing, or even open wheel racing. But Rahal was persona non grata there.

Right or wrong, accurate or not, the perception was that if say Roger Penske was standing against one wall and let's say Tom Walkinshaw was standing against the opposite wall, Bobby Rahal began moving a bit too close to Walkinshaw's side of the room. I guess when your sponsors begin turning their backs on you, perception becomes reality.

Give it a name. Call it karma or call it reputation.

Mark in Oshawa

31st January 2009, 20:45

All I know is a lot of people want to dump on Rahal but wont actually have the guts to SAY why people are leaving. They blame it all on Bobby without any concrete proof or obvious reasons.

Bobby has likely ticked off a few people but I wont ask a driver on a lot of this. First off, any driver let go by a team always says it wasn't their fault. Never heard of a driver who thought he should step down willingly unless they had their bell rung. Of course...AJ Foyt still thinks he can out drive people so even then...

No..Bobby is being slagged here I think because there is a lot bitter people who cant accept the business decision he made to leave Champ Car. I didn't like it at the time but I do think he didn't owe Champ Car a damned thing and as the following years proved, he likely made the right call. I have no idea whether Kenny Brack was screwed over or not, but considering no one else has given Brack a ride since his crash, I have to assume it just isn't Bobby being a jerk that is keeping Brack from returning to the IRL.

If you guys want to slag Rahal, provide something besides rumour or innuendo to justify this stance or be prepared to be slagged as a troll. It is not nice to slag a guy with inneuendo and then hide behind excuses.

Dr. Krogshöj

31st January 2009, 21:34

Not sniping at you, because I don't know the answer. So here's the question. Who's sponsors were they? Team Rahal's or were they there because of the mexican driver and went with said driver.

Well, obviously it turned out that they were there because of the Mexican driver. But it makes sense to presume they made it clear to Bobby that they are willing to fund Michel's ride for another season. So the question is, why did he let a good driver and a bunch of sponsors just go? I think this is why a lot of Champ Car fans thought that he was just trying to get out and came up with a poor excuse.

I was one of them but that does not mean I have anything against him. I really hope he eventually finds some cash to run this year.

fugariracing

1st February 2009, 07:30

As I understand in 2004, Rahal was all set to go with Jourdain and his sponsors. Everything happened very last minute but IIRC, Rahal offered Jourdain a chance to go with him to IRL when they switched. Michel was not a huge fan of the all-oval series at the time and stayed behind. The sponsors stayed with him as they were committed to the year's budget anyway, and he wound up in a second RuSPORT car to fill the 18-car field requirement.

Undermanned though, MJ had a severe letdown year when RuSPORT was for all intensive purposes going to be a one-car effort fielded for 'Dinger, who promptly ran circles around him that year. MJ would have been a title contender with Rahal but he was out of CCWS after '04 and onto a hodgepodge of rides, mainly the failed NASCAR Busch Series jaunt. At least now he has a part-time deal with Fernandez Acura in ALMS.

For all we know Rahal in IRL could have been a 2-car team in 2004 and it was after the fact, except instead of Brack and Jourdain or even Jon Fogarty who was supposedly in the running for the seat (he had mentored Danica a few Atlantic races and a title under his belt at that point), it was Rice and Meira. There already was the Pioneer money (which was Honda) and Argent for 2004, and Rice got the seat with Meira in a second car that joined up.

Rahal's a businessman but it seems the number of sponsors lost from that team over the years is staggering. I don't think it's his fault per se but there has to be something about the management style and inner workings of the team where there is not a happy environment between the boss and the company footing the bills that doesn't equate.

1st February 2009, 12:19

What I don't get about this "karma" bollocks is, if it really does exist, why is Jimmy Vasser having to cut down to 1 car due to lack of sponsorship? Jimmy Vasser doesn't deserve that kind of "karma", surely?

Why are NHL down to one car? Paul Newman didn't deserve that kind of "karma" surely?

So can we forget this pathetic nonsense and just accept that, in an economic downturn/recession, nobody is safe from losing out on sponsorship....and that's all there is to it.

The other thing is that, instead of gloating about a team shutting down its open-wheel operations, how about asking what it really is you want to achieve? No IRL?

Ok, nice one....so you can also kiss good-bye to any form of open-wheel racing in North America, because without a top of the ladder there is no point having the rungs! Say cheerio to Formula Atlantic, Formula BMW and all the others too.

Well done. Nobody is going to start a top-level open wheel championship now or for the forseeable future. Nobody. If the IRL fails/folds then why would any sane person want to repeat the financial outlay and risk that would have already seen three versions of top-level open-wheel racing fail? They won't. North America will become NASCAR and nothing else.

You might not like the IRL, you may despise its owner, but it is all there is. Being happy that it is losing teams is less a reflection on its situation as it is a reflection on the sad state of affairs in your own head.

MDS

1st February 2009, 14:10

I love it when English people get mad. It's so cute to hear words like "Cheerio" and "Bullocks" used in a sentence.

garyshell

1st February 2009, 16:05

I love it when English people get mad. It's so cute to hear words like "Cheerio" and "Bullocks" used in a sentence.

Especially when the mad Englishman makes a lot of sense.

Gary

Jag_Warrior

1st February 2009, 17:52

I love it when English people get mad. It's so cute to hear words like "Cheerio" and "Bullocks" used in a sentence.

Honey Nut Cheerios are my favorites. The plain ones just don't do much for me. And I wonder if Sandra "Bollocks" likes Cheerios? Things that make me go, "hmmmm."

Others can boo-hoo for Bobby Rahal if they so choose. I only know the reason given for him going from hero to zero at one company. With every other sponsor that he's lost over the past few years (quite a list, eh?), maybe there are other, unrelated reasons. Oh well... :dozey:

spiritone

2nd February 2009, 04:43

When you left the champcar series at the last min. in an attempt to destroy the series i lost all respect for you bobby. Hope this will be the last time you can afford to have an entry in the irl. Having said that i hope you son succeeds because for any openwheel series to succeed in america there needs to be a strong american driver in the series. To bad the american owners in the series don't seem to have any faith in there own countries drivers.

downtowndeco

2nd February 2009, 14:28

At least you are honest in your post. Wrong, but honest.

Bobby Rahal left CCWS because he didn't think they were going to last, and he was correct. It was strictly a business decision.

The funny thing about CART/CCWS & it's fans was that they always thought someone was out to get them. It was always someone elses fault. Never did it dawn on them that almost all the damage was all self inflicted due to bad business decisions that were often made out of spite, rather than good, solid logic.

When you left the champcar series at the last min. in an attempt to destroy the series i lost all respect for you bobby. Hope this will be the last time you can afford to have an entry in the irl. Having said that i hope you son succeeds because for any openwheel series to succeed in america there needs to be a strong american driver in the series. To bad the american owners in the series don't seem to have any faith in there own countries drivers.

garyshell

2nd February 2009, 15:08

At least you are honest in your post. Wrong, but honest.

Bobby Rahal left CCWS because he didn't think they were going to last, and he was correct. It was strictly a business decision.

The funny thing about CART/CCWS & it's fans was that they always thought someone was out to get them. It was always someone elses fault. Never did it dawn on them that almost all the damage was all self inflicted due to bad business decisions that were often made out of spite, rather than good, solid logic.

I agree with your assessment of Bobby's decision. However, I take exception with your assumption that no one was out to get CART/CCWS. Sure there were stupid, spiteful decisions, no question about that, but to suggest that the IRL was NOT trying to eliminate the competition is just lain wrong. Just look at King George's "I bring my hammer to work" comment as proof positive. I think he was delusional enough in the first couple of years to think the two series could both continue to exist. But soon the reality set in that there could only ever be one series and he wanted, and was, the last man standing.

Gary

downtowndeco

2nd February 2009, 17:21

No one was out to "get" CART or CCWS anymore than any business competitor is trying to "get" another. It's just plain, simple, good business sense. You do what you can to further your company and you don't do any favors or make it easy for your competitors.

My beef is with the CCWS/CART fans who try and portray what happened during the split as unfair, underhanded, illegal or dishonest. Hey man, it's just business. Nothing more. Grow a pair.

I agree with your assessment of Bobby's decision. However, I take exception with your assumption that no one was out to get CART/CCWS. Sure there were stupid, spiteful decisions, no question about that, but to suggest that the IRL was NOT trying to eliminate the competition is just lain wrong. Just look at King George's "I bring my hammer to work" comment as proof positive. I think he was delusional enough in the first couple of years to think the two series could both continue to exist. But soon the reality set in that there could only ever be one series and he wanted, and was, the last man standing.

Gary

garyshell

2nd February 2009, 17:33

The funny thing about CART/CCWS & it's fans was that they always thought someone was out to get them.

No one was out to "get" CART or CCWS anymore than any business competitor is trying to "get" another.

So now you are saying that the IRL was out to get them, right.

What I find funny is your continued disdain for any of the former CART fans who dare to utter so much as a scintilla of exception to anything that King George ever did.

It was a business battle without question. A battle where all parties involved and uninvolved knew that only one side could possibly remain standing. Some were just latter to that realization than others.

Gary

SarahFan

2nd February 2009, 17:48

It's just plain, simple, good business sense. You do what you can to further your company and you don't do any favors or make it easy for your competitors.

.

you couldn't be more wrong....

I go out of my way at every chance i get to help/assist/contribute to others in my industry..... and it pays dividends every day

a thriveing community of restaurants (biz's in general) is a good thing .....

CART and the IRL could have done the same....they BOTH chose not too... net result is one is out of Biz and the other is on deaths bed (see TG comments about losing $$$ and 2013 for reference)

downtowndeco

2nd February 2009, 17:56

My point being that there are those that imply that almost any or every thing the IRL did was nefarious and beyond the pale of what is fair or legal in a free trade market.

If that's the case, start naming the great sins or crimes of TG. Lay them out, let's hear them. Let's hear what Tony George did that was so out of bounds, so out of the ordinary. It's my opinion that he did nothing more than any other business owner would do in a similar situation. That he has never been sued or had charges pressed against him is clear evidence that he walked a pretty straight, and fair line.

So now you are saying that the IRL was out to get them, right.

What I find funny is your continued disdain for any of the former CART fans who dare to utter so much as a scintilla of exception to anything that King George ever did.

It was a business battle without question. A battle where all parties involved and uninvolved knew that only one side could possibly remain standing. Some were just latter to that realization than others.

Gary

SarahFan

2nd February 2009, 18:05

That he has never been sued or had charges pressed against him is clear evidence that he walked a pretty straight, and fair line.

straight and fair?.... sure

smart?... different story.... and the ratings, sponsors, car count, etc etc etc support that

SarahFan

2nd February 2009, 18:10

It was a business battle without question. A battle where all parties involved and uninvolved knew that only one side could possibly remain standing. Some were just latter to that realization than others.

Gary

I disagree here gary.... a common chassis that would have alowed for cross over competition, especially at Indy, was advocated by many team owners along the way....(early on by Rahal)..... TG chose 'no' everytime....

a level of mutual respect and co-operation by both sides would have gone a long ways towards a more solid OW racing in the US for both series....

the current state certainly is a zombie by definition

spiritone

2nd February 2009, 18:20

What he did with the split was set in motion the downward trend of openwheel racing. Instead of swallowing a little pride and doing what was good for openwheel racing he started a war.

If the indy 500 is what openwheel racing is all about in this country then it is a perfect example of what is wrong with the series. As it slides in popularity, it take the rest of the irl series with it. With TG's emphasis on the 500 the rest of the races loose any importance.

I'm not saying he did anything illegal, but what he did has resulted in the series being what it is now, a poorly attended, poorly televised, with a dwindeling car count.

downtowndeco

2nd February 2009, 18:37

What he did with the split was set in motion the downward trend of openwheel racing. Instead of swallowing a little pride and doing what was good for openwheel racing he started a war.

"...swallowing a little pride..."? CART should have thought of that before scheduling the US 500, which was a direct shot at trying to damage the Indy 500. And CCWS should have thought of that before even placing a bid, because by the time CART went BK it was clear to EVERYONE that there was simply not enough room for two OW series.

Once the CC crowd showed that they had no intention of playing nice or trying to get along all bets were off. If you're looking for someone to blame look in their direction. Decisions were based on spite & ego rather than reality and they proved they couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag once they decided to go public.

garyshell

2nd February 2009, 19:18

My point being that there are those that imply that almost any or every thing the IRL did was nefarious and beyond the pale of what is fair or legal in a free trade market.

If that's the case, start naming the great sins or crimes of TG. Lay them out, let's hear them. Let's hear what Tony George did that was so out of bounds, so out of the ordinary. It's my opinion that he did nothing more than any other business owner would do in a similar situation. That he has never been sued or had charges pressed against him is clear evidence that he walked a pretty straight, and fair line.

Where did I say a word about him doing anything more than any other business owner would have done? I didn't. And that points out the problem with your continued insistence on branding ALL former CART fans as the same. We aren't.

Gary

garyshell

2nd February 2009, 19:22

"...swallowing a little pride..."? CART should have thought of that before scheduling the US 500, which was a direct shot at trying to damage the Indy 500.

Ah, how quickly some forget (or conveniently forget) the 28/5 rule. Yep, that rule had NOTHING to do with the US 500, right? :rolleyes:

And CCWS should have thought of that before even placing a bid, because by the time CART went BK it was clear to EVERYONE that there was simply not enough room for two OW series.

Once the CC crowd showed that they had no intention of playing nice or trying to get along all bets were off. If you're looking for someone to blame look in their direction. Decisions were based on spite & ego rather than reality and they proved they couldn't manage themselves out of a paper bag once they decided to go public.

You we should look SOLELY in the CART direction cause god knows King George is totaly blameless. Give it a rest will ya', not even Tony's own family believe that lie.

Now as for CCWS placing a bid, I do agree with you. It was obvious to EVERYONE by the time of the BK that there was only room for one series.

Gary

garyshell

2nd February 2009, 19:26

I disagree here gary.... a common chassis that would have alowed for cross over competition, especially at Indy, was advocated by many team owners along the way....(early on by Rahal)..... TG chose 'no' everytime....

a level of mutual respect and co-operation by both sides would have gone a long ways towards a more solid OW racing in the US for both series....

the current state certainly is a zombie by definition

Sorry, I don't buy that for one second. I didn't then, and I don't now, for one reason... Madison Ave. The folks that pay the bills, sponsors, were never interested in two series. There were barely interested in more than one race, truth be told.

Gary

booger

3rd February 2009, 02:54

Rahal tried everything, especially when he was on top. He was always sort of a maverick and riverboat gambler (but his wry demeaner really doesn't show this because he's as smooth as a babies ass when he's deal-making), can you say Alfa? Porsche? When he settled into the business end vs the driver end, he still wasn't happy. Can you say truck guy? (can't remember his name). Then he headed to Jaguar F-1 with a short stop at CART as CEO I believe, and Niki virtually beheaded him...out goes Ford for the last time in F-1.

Back to being a team owner on his own. Then I think he joined up with Honda but my memory of all this stuff might not be in perfect order. The fact is BR is a great driver, and he's Lebonese by decsent (don't jump me for this now, it's only an anecdote) and that means he loves the "deal". Some of them have been good, some not so good. Then it was Porsche again and now BMW in the ALMS. Fact is he has been in the boardrooms of every major performance car company on the globe and always walked away with some kind of deal. For Gosh sakes give him a break...it's rough out there and I believe he'll still come up with some kind of "deal" from somewhere, but when you are a real "racer" you race, doesn't matter where, doesn't matter how...our sport needs more Rahals...

booger

3rd February 2009, 03:22

Mark in Oshawa

4th February 2009, 01:19

Just thought of a couple of other things. He gave "Dani-monster" her start in open wheel, then moved her to the big leagues and she ditches him and takes the sponsor (as paltry as it was) with her. He puts Buddy in the only chance he can get to win Indy (and he did) and He invests his own coin in his kid's career (even FMazda is in the half mil ranks now) and helps him land the best ride in CC. And now he's loaded with a ton of car dealerships that aren't doing diddely squat and some of you want to trash him? Look at the whole story and I think you'll all agree that we do indeed need more BRs in the sport.

I agree....even him bringing in Danica (who I don't like but I will admit is a draw). Bobby will never be criticized by me....well..almost never.

anthonyvop

4th February 2009, 12:59

Just thought of a couple of other things. He gave "Dani-monster" her start in open wheel, then moved her to the big leagues and she ditches him and takes the sponsor (as paltry as it was) with her. He puts Buddy in the only chance he can get to win Indy (and he did) and He invests his own coin in his kid's career (even FMazda is in the half mil ranks now) and helps him land the best ride in CC. And now he's loaded with a ton of car dealerships that aren't doing diddely squat and some of you want to trash him? Look at the whole story and I think you'll all agree that we do indeed need more BRs in the sport.
When I started this thread I was in no way trashing Mr. Rahal.

I was just pointing out that is was another in a series of negative events happening to the IRL.

I wrote an article about the whole issue.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/119206-irl-indy-car-series-a-case-of-the-domino-theory

nigelred5

4th February 2009, 12:59

I've got no beef with Bobby. He's always been good for the sport, and regardless if he deserted Champcar or not, he's a good racer and a good owner. at least he's not going through a series of bogus mergers with other teams to steal sponsorship and eliminate tons of jobs like Cheepster.

downtowndeco

4th February 2009, 13:59

Why is nobody surprised (that you wrote an article) Mr. "The Glass is Always Half Empty for the IRL"? : )

I was just pointing out that is was another in a series of negative events happening to the IRL.

I wrote an article about the whole issue.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/119206-irl-indy-car-series-a-case-of-the-domino-theory

Chamoo

4th February 2009, 15:17

Why is nobody surprised (that you wrote an article) Mr. "The Glass is Always Half Empty for the IRL"? : )

Maybe he is just Mr. "Realist"?

Who knows? But I trust Anthony in most everything he says. His sources are very credible and he knows the business well.

SarahFan

4th February 2009, 15:57

Sorry, I don't buy that for one second. I didn't then, and I don't now, for one reason... Madison Ave. The folks that pay the bills, sponsors, were never interested in two series. There were barely interested in more than one race, truth be told.

Gary

you don't buy it?... heck you answered the question....

sponsors were interested in Indy... and the 500 itself has suffered from the split.....

garyshell

4th February 2009, 17:27

When I started this thread I was in no way trashing Mr. Rahal.

I was just pointing out that is was another in a series of negative events happening to the IRL.

I wrote an article about the whole issue.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/119206-irl-indy-car-series-a-case-of-the-domino-theory

A series of UNRELATED negative events. Not a domino effect... see: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=585060#post585060

Gary

anthonyvop

4th February 2009, 20:23

A series of UNRELATED negative events. Not a domino effect... see: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=585060#post585060

Gary
Are they unrelated?
Has the Versus TV contract not affected the search for sponsors?
The cost of running an IRL team has stayed the same(Or gone up). The Cost for a company to sponsor a team has remained the same.
The cost for a manufacturer to develop a race engine has gone up.
The exposure of the IRL will go down in 2009!

So explain to me how they are unrelated.

ykiki

4th February 2009, 21:09

Are they unrelated?
Has the Versus TV contract not affected the search for sponsors?
The cost of running an IRL team has stayed the same(Or gone up). The Cost for a company to sponsor a team has remained the same.
The cost for a manufacturer to develop a race engine has gone up.
The exposure of the IRL will go down in 2009!

So explain to me how they are unrelated.

Yes, you've listed things here that are related. However, I think to make this a true "domino effect", there would have to be direct correlation of one piece to another.

Duno signing with NHL may be a sign of budget problems at NHL, but for it to work in your list above, you'd have to prove that THE reason why Duno would sign with NHL was because of the Versus TV contract. That is how the "domino effect" works.

Then for the the full effect, something else would have to happen as a direct result of Duno signing with NHL.

garyshell

4th February 2009, 21:47

you don't buy it?... heck you answered the question....

sponsors were interested in Indy... and the 500 itself has suffered from the split.....

I didn't and don't buy the crap about cooperation between CART and IRL would have worked. Sponsors were and are ONLY interested in the 500.

Gary

garyshell

4th February 2009, 21:48

SarahFan

5th February 2009, 03:03

I didn't and don't buy the crap about cooperation between CART and IRL would have worked. Sponsors were and are ONLY interested in the 500.

Gary

well it's crystal clear the lack of cooperation wasnt the right idea

garyshell

5th February 2009, 04:49

well it's crystal clear the lack of cooperation wasnt the right idea

No argument with that. In my mind the creation of the IRL in the first place was never the right idea. But once that die was cast, it was inevitable that there would only be one series as long as the 500 was in one of the two camps. The 25/8 rule sealed that part of the deal. It just took us twelve painful years to get it sorted out.

Gary

anthonyvop

5th February 2009, 15:51

Yes, you've listed things here that are related. However, I think to make this a true "domino effect", there would have to be direct correlation of one piece to another.

Duno signing with NHL may be a sign of budget problems at NHL, but for it to work in your list above, you'd have to prove that THE reason why Duno would sign with NHL was because of the Versus TV contract. That is how the "domino effect" works.

Then for the the full effect, something else would have to happen as a direct result of Duno signing with NHL.
The Versus TV contract HAS driven away sponsors and potential sponsors. Can you blame them?

If a Sponsorship cost $2 million last year for a series that was broadcast on ABC and ESPN why would you pay the same for a series that will have most of it's races on a network that most have never even heard of?

downtowndeco

5th February 2009, 16:06

Let's see a link with a list of the sponsors that have specifically said they do not want to sponsor a team in the IRL because the IRL is on vs instead of ESPN/ESPN2.

We'll be waiting.

The Versus TV contract HAS driven away sponsors and potential sponsors. Can you blame them?

If a Sponsorship cost $2 million last year for a series that was broadcast on ABC and ESPN why would you pay the same for a series that will have most of it's races on a network that most have never even heard of?

garyshell

5th February 2009, 17:22

The Versus TV contract HAS driven away sponsors and potential sponsors. Can you blame them?

If a Sponsorship cost $2 million last year for a series that was broadcast on ABC and ESPN why would you pay the same for a series that will have most of it's races on a network that most have never even heard of?

For the sake of argument, let's just say that that is fact rather than speculation. All you have done is linked TWO events. You still have not (and really can't) show how all of the items you say are "dominos" are a chain reaction.

Gary

ykiki

5th February 2009, 17:24

Let's see a link with a list of the sponsors that have specifically said they do not want to sponsor a team in the IRL because the IRL is on vs instead of ESPN/ESPN2.

We'll be waiting.

Exactly.

Nothing against anthonyvop (I'm don't doubt you've heard from your sources that the new tv deal isn't helping things), but the "domino effect" works due to direct actions.

In this case, that would mean a direct quote from NHL Racing to the effect of "potential sponsors were unhappy with the Versus tv deal, so we hired Milka Duno to finance our 2009 racing operations" or a press release from Milka Duno saying, "I wouldn't be here at NewmanHaasLanigan if not for the opportunity afforded me by the IRL's broadcast partnership with Versus".

Neither is likely to happen.

Then there's still other things that would need to happen directly due to NHL signing Milka Duno for it become a domino effect.

DirtDevil5

6th February 2009, 16:54

You really are a hater aren't ya? Just come out and say it. You are still mad Rahal left Champ Car to join the Tony George 3 ring circus. IT WAS A BUSINESS DECISION!!! Get over it.....just like him pulling out of the IRL now is a BUSINESS DECISION!

Bobby is smart and Letterman is cheap. They wont race in any series if they cant get their money out of it to some extent and they wont race where they cant be competitive. The ALMS allows them to keep their hands in the game for a reasonable price until the economy improves.

As for people being happy Bobby is gone because they cant leave the baggage of 3 years ago behind, I am just feeling bad you have to think that way. Bobby Rahal is one of the few really smart and self made men left in this sport who came out of the cockpit in the 80's and 90's. Mikey Andretti isn't self made since he bought a really good team to start with but Bobby did it all from the ground up and never lost sight of what he was doing. To lose Bobby's participation from the IRL full time is our loss.....

Yah but, Rahal bailed at the very last minute with full support from
Honda, it was clearly a IRL strategy to also sink CART

Thats why me & others will NEVER trust RLR, Honda and especially TG

garyshell

6th February 2009, 18:29

Yah but, Rahal bailed at the very last minute with full support from
Honda, it was clearly a IRL strategy to also sink CART

Thats why me & others will NEVER trust RLR, Honda and especially TG

Yep, it had nothing to do with the promises that didn't materialize at Long Beach, did it? Had nothing to do with the business that Bobby and Letterman were trying to run, right? There were black helicopter flying all around Hilliard, Ohio and Georgetown Ave. that day.

I was not HAPPY with the decision, but I sure as hell understood it.

Gary

methanolHuffer

9th February 2009, 16:00

It's not as though he's leaving all motorsport behind.
Just this one, and he'll probably try to start again with the proper confidence and finance (whenever we'll see happy-days-are-here-again being sung by advert agencies).

He still will have ties to ALMS and Indy Lights, so maybe he just would rather not have the stress and cost of trying to run in IndyCar right now.

Maybe the he feels he's getting better bang for his buck from BMW M3 and smaller spec formulas.