Rolex won by #58 whilst 12 lbs underweight!!!

[jimclark]

Welcome to NASCRAP country. I wanted 'em to win but 12 lbs is cheatin'. Period.

http://community.grand-am.com/forums/thread/ee15738d-47d1-4f01-8bba-1cea06e33a84

[trumperZ06]

:p : Typical NA$CAR reaction. Now it's happening in Grand Sham.

:rolleyes: Their "Rules" or so subjective that the Cup race results have been questionable for many years.

[rob01]

so are we to expect the kind of cheating NASCAR has in Grand-Am?

i think the comment about teams running light to aid their chances of winning will become all to common now they've let one team pretty much get away with it.

[anthonyvop]

so are we to expect the kind of cheating NASCAR has in Grand-Am?

i think the comment about teams running light to aid their chances of winning will become all to common now they've let one team pretty much get away with it.
Nah.
Brumos got "The Call"

[FormerFF]

That's a pretty slim penalty for being 12 lbs underweight. If they weren't going to DQ them, how about a big fine and loss of all driver, team, and manufacturer points?

I could see the point if someone had thumped their car during the last stint and broken off a big piece of bodywork, but that was not the case. 12 lbs counts for something, especially when the margin of victory was so small.

Damn, and I was cheering for them too.

[Oli_M]

Its a real shame this has happened. At the end of the day, if someone runs an illegal car, they should be disqualified from that session. End of. No if's or but's. So if its Qualifying, they start last. If its the race, they are placed last and collect the appropriate number of points and dollars (usually zero).

I don't get the whole mentality that exists in NASCAR and now GrandAm "OK your car was completely illegal, but its OK we will just fine you a little and give you second place points, even though all 30 cars behind you managed to make their cars perfectly legal"

Why bother running your cars to spec at all now?

[Danske]

1. It's going to be a matter of opinion exactly what the penalty for a weight infraction should be. There's no natural or divine law specifiy in sporting competitions what the penalties for infractions shall be, leaving just human opinion.

2. The five points is a finishing position equivalent for between two and five places, inclusive, not insignificant for the championship.

3. Grand-Am has increased penalties for repeat offenses in the past.

Conclusion: It's not the end of the world.

[racefanfromnj]

i give the engineers a lot of credit for figuring out what to take off that weighed so little to squeak under weight

[anthonyvop]

1. It's going to be a matter of opinion exactly what the penalty for a weight infraction should be. There's no natural or divine law specifiy in sporting competitions what the penalties for infractions shall be, leaving just human opinion.


Lets see.

If that was to happen in the ALMS it would be a disqualification(Ask Audi after the race in Detroit last year)

If that was to happen in F1 it would be a disqualification.

If that was to happen in an SCCA club race it would be a disqualification.

[Danske]

Different series have different rules. Take blocking, for example. If most series were to penalize blocking, that doesn't make it wrong for a series in which blocking is legal for blocking to not be penalized. Also, if most series penalizing blocking were to do so with immediate and severe penalties, that doesn't make it wrong for a series with lesser penalties for blocking to apply those lesser penalties. Grand-Am may be in the minority in not altering race results after the fact, instead opting to penalize in points and fines (i.e. removing only a portion instead of all of the rewards of the result)[1], but they followed their rules, those rules are theirs to make, and Brumos/Donohue/Rice/Garcia/Porsche/Riley were penalized in accordance to those rules.

Also, the 58 reportedly continued to spew fluids after the race but before tech as it sat idling with no air through the radiator. They may not have lost the entire gallon and a half or so they would have needed to make weight, but as oil and water are not drained before tech they were losing legal "ballast" after the race, were at least closer to, even if not above, minimum weight at the checkered flag, and "fluid loss" was not some thin fiction invented by the team.

[1.] In Koni last year fuel cell capacity violations were also penalized with point and monetary fines (more points but less money than the 58's penalty), not disqualification, without any reason for a grand conspiracy to gift a win or any plausible reason for the fuel cells increasing in capacity during or after the course of the race. It is in fact established precedent in Grand-Am to not retroactively alter the race results for post-race tech infractions.

[F1boat]

Different series have different rules. Take blocking, for example. If most series were to penalize blocking, that doesn't make it wrong for a series in which blocking is legal for blocking to not be penalized. Also, if most series penalizing blocking were to do so with immediate and severe penalties, that doesn't make it wrong for a series with lesser penalties for blocking to apply those lesser penalties. Grand-Am may be in the minority in not altering race results after the fact, instead opting to penalize in points and fines (i.e. removing only a portion instead of all of the rewards of the result)[1], but they followed their rules, those rules are theirs to make, and Brumos/Donohue/Rice/Garcia/Porsche/Riley were penalized in accordance to those rules.

Also, the 58 reportedly continued to spew fluids after the race but before tech as it sat idling with no air through the radiator. They may not have lost the entire gallon and a half or so they would have needed to make weight, but as oil and water are not drained before tech they were losing legal "ballast" after the race, were at least closer to, even if not above, minimum weight at the checkered flag, and "fluid loss" was not some thin fiction invented by the team.

[1.] In Koni last year fuel cell capacity violations were also penalized with point and monetary fines (more points but less money than the 58's penalty), not disqualification, without any reason for a grand conspiracy to gift a win or any plausible reason for the fuel cells increasing in capacity during or after the course of the race. It is in fact established precedent in Grand-Am to not retroactively alter the race results for post-race tech infractions.

I agree. I prefer the Grand Am's way, BTW.

[anthonyvop]

Different series have different rules. Take blocking, for example. If most series were to penalize blocking, that doesn't make it wrong for a series in which blocking is legal for blocking to not be penalized. Also, if most series penalizing blocking were to do so with immediate and severe penalties, that doesn't make it wrong for a series with lesser penalties for blocking to apply those lesser penalties. Grand-Am may be in the minority in not altering race results after the fact, instead opting to penalize in points and fines (i.e. removing only a portion instead of all of the rewards of the result)[1], but they followed their rules, those rules are theirs to make, and Brumos/Donohue/Rice/Garcia/Porsche/Riley were penalized in accordance to those rules.

Also, the 58 reportedly continued to spew fluids after the race but before tech as it sat idling with no air through the radiator. They may not have lost the entire gallon and a half or so they would have needed to make weight, but as oil and water are not drained before tech they were losing legal "ballast" after the race, were at least closer to, even if not above, minimum weight at the checkered flag, and "fluid loss" was not some thin fiction invented by the team.

[1.] In Koni last year fuel cell capacity violations were also penalized with point and monetary fines (more points but less money than the 58's penalty), not disqualification, without any reason for a grand conspiracy to gift a win or any plausible reason for the fuel cells increasing in capacity during or after the course of the race. It is in fact established precedent in Grand-Am to not retroactively alter the race results for post-race tech infractions.

That is why it is hard to take the series seriously.
Just about every major series would have disqualified them. Only The Grand-Am and it's owner, NASCAR gives a wink, nudge and a light tap on the wrist.

[ShiftingGears]

What a joke.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

If that was to happen in F1 it would be a disqualification.


And all the fans would start whining about how Max Mosley is ruining the sport by altering the results after the chequered flag.

[Oli_M]

And all the fans would start whining about how Max Mosley is ruining the sport by altering the results after the chequered flag.

I honestly do not believe there is a single real F1 fan out there who would whine if a car was found to be underweight and subsequently DQ'd. There was the case a few years ago when Honda cars were underweight - they were DQ'd and banned from (I think) the next 4 races (can't remember exact number) - the only criticism in this case was the supposedly 'sketchy' wording of the rule.

If this grand am incident and lack of punishment had happened in F1 there would be uproar from fans, teams, TV etc etc. But then, Grand am isn't F1, and obviously never will be.