Unfair dismissal allegations against McLaren dropped

[Dave B]

The previous (rather unpleasant) thread (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128766) on the subject was closed, but just to set one matter straight: the steward who had previously made claims of homophobia and unfair dismissal again Ron Dennis has now admitted that his claims were totally unfounded.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/11395
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44920&PO=44920
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21100.html

:)

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128766

[ioan]

I'd like to know how much he got paid in order to drop the case.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'd like to know how much he got paid in order to drop the case.
So he was paid :confused: Where's the link to that story :confused: Or is it totally unfounded like Boland's allegations :dozey:

[ioan]

They made him several proposals already in order to drop the case and he still pushed ahead.
The fact that the case was accepted by a tribunal means that a judge decided that he had the right to accuse Ron.

IMO Ron raised the amount to an acceptable level and Bolland drooped his case. A win win situation.
More will come out in the press, don't worry, sooner or later we'ill know the amount paid to calm the spirits.

[BDunnell]

I'd like to know how much he got paid in order to drop the case.

I would suggest that this action is potentially libellous unless evidence of the 'payment' can be provided.

[ShiftingGears]

Good.

[PolePosition_1]

They made him several proposals already in order to drop the case and he still pushed ahead.
The fact that the case was accepted by a tribunal means that a judge decided that he had the right to accuse Ron.

IMO Ron raised the amount to an acceptable level and Bolland drooped his case. A win win situation.
More will come out in the press, don't worry, sooner or later we'ill know the amount paid to calm the spirits.

Ioan - I hate to sound like I'm picking on you as I know your quite sensitive.

But where did you get this from? Have you got a link?

I read all the relevant F1 press on a daily basis, and somehow you come up with these "factual" events I've never heard of, and in most cases, unwilling to source them.

Look, I'm no fan of Ron Dennis (hard to believe, I know) but even I didn't believe that he was homophobic or racist.

[ioan]

I would suggest that this action is potentially libellous unless evidence of the 'payment' can be provided.

So what, it's my opinion and it can't be precluded without denying my right to freedom of speech.

[ioan]

Ioan - I hate to sound like I'm picking on you as I know your quite sensitive.

But where did you get this from? Have you got a link?

I read all the relevant F1 press on a daily basis, and somehow you come up with these "factual" events I've never heard of, and in most cases, unwilling to source them.

You are obviously missing some of the F1 press, especially the one that isn't afraid of writing about RD.

No offense but you often don't know what happens or happened in F1 not so long ago.

[inimitablestoo]

Well, if Ferrari can pay off FIA stewards to ignore blatant breaches of regulations... ;)

[BDunnell]

So what, it's my opinion and it can't be precluded without denying my right to freedom of speech.

You wouldn't be saying 'so what?' if you were to get sued.

[BDunnell]

You are obviously missing some of the F1 press, especially the one that isn't afraid of writing about RD.

No offense but you often don't know what happens or happened in F1 not so long ago.

Where in those statements is any actual evidence that what you think is true?

[Garry Walker]

You wouldn't be saying 'so what?' if you were to get sued.

Nobody will bother suing an internet nobody like him.

This case, as most racism and sexism allegations, are jokes and would be laughed at in serious courts.

[christophulus]

They made him several proposals already in order to drop the case and he still pushed ahead.
The fact that the case was accepted by a tribunal means that a judge decided that he had the right to accuse Ron.

IMO Ron raised the amount to an acceptable level and Bolland drooped his case. A win win situation.
More will come out in the press, don't worry, sooner or later we'ill know the amount paid to calm the spirits.

But dropping the case and admitting you lied and made it all up are different things

"...for wasting their time with what I now realise were unfounded allegations. In particular, I apologise to Mr Dennis for suggesting that he is, or was, either racist or homophobic, or that he ever made any remarks or performed any actions that would suggest that he was. I feel great remorse for the upset that I now realise I have needlessly caused to him"

That suggests to me that the guy knew he was in the wrong, so suggesting he was paid off is a bit of a stretch. Regardless, I'm sure the News of the World will run his story in, erm, about three years time :p

[BDunnell]

Nobody will bother suing an internet nobody like him.

This is true, but one genuinely can't be too careful nowadays with what one says on the web.

[ioan]

But dropping the case and admitting you lied and made it all up are different things

"...for wasting their time with what I now realise were unfounded allegations. In particular, I apologise to Mr Dennis for suggesting that he is, or was, either racist or homophobic, or that he ever made any remarks or performed any actions that would suggest that he was. I feel great remorse for the upset that I now realise I have needlessly caused to him"

That suggests to me that the guy knew he was in the wrong, so suggesting he was paid off is a bit of a stretch. Regardless, I'm sure the News of the World will run his story in, erm, about three years time :p

The question is: how did he realize that he was in the wrong only after such a long time?!

And how the hell did a tribunal accept his case if he was wrong?!

I don't buy it.

Sure Ron isn't racist, there is no question about that after all he has a black driver that he even favored last season, not to mention he is long time friend and partnet with Mansour Ojjeh whom is not Caucasian either.

But still the guy was shown the door and his case was accepted and was offered money for a settlement on several occasions before today.

[BDunnell]

The question is: how did he realize that he was in the wrong only after such a long time?!

And how the hell did a tribunal accept his case if he was wrong?!

I don't buy it.

Sure Ron isn't racist, there is no question about that after all he has a black driver that he even favored last season, not to mention he is long time friend and partnet with Mansour Ojjeh whom is not Caucasian either.

But still the guy was shown the door and his case was accepted and was offered money for a settlement on several occasions before today.

Any evidence of the complainant being paid off? Thought not.

And as for this statement: 'And how the hell did a tribunal accept his case if he was wrong?!'... well, words almost fail me. Tribunals don't only occur when the complainant is right. This is how the legal system works. This is hardly the first tribunal in which the complaint has been withdrawn and the case collapsed. Are you suggesting that all the previous ones in which exactly this has happened involved the complainant being paid off, or just this one?

[ioan]

Everyone is reacting like if the case was dismissed by the court because the judge thought that the guy was wrong, when in fact he was the one who dropped his charges.

There is a difference.

Never saw someone push ahead with a legal process for a long time, lose lots of time and money, just to realize one morning that he is wrong and than drop the charges. This only happens in fairy tales.
In real life charges are dropped after a settlement out of court.

Maybe it is as you say, but I don't think that is the case.

[BDunnell]

Everyone is reacting like if the case was dismissed by the court because the judge thought that the guy was wrong, when in fact he was the one who dropped his charges.

There is a difference.

Never saw someone push ahead with a legal process for a long time, lose lots of time and money, just to realize one morning that he is wrong and than drop the charges. This only happens in fairy tales.
In real life charges are dropped after a settlement.

ioan, your opinions are becoming increasingly... er, 'remarkable'. Are you honestly suggesting that this was a world legal first?

[ioan]

ioan, your opinions are becoming increasingly... er, 'remarkable'. Are you honestly suggesting that this was a world legal first?

:eek: :?:

What made you think that?

I just believe that this might be a clear case of out of court settlement followed by dropped charges. No way is that a world legal first. It happens every day.

[BDunnell]

:eek: :?:

What made you think that?

I just believe that this might be a clear case of out of court settlement followed by dropped charges. No way is that a world legal first. It happens every day.

You were clearly suggesting something unusual about it — that the scenario belonged in a 'fairy tale', for one thing.

[Garry Walker]

Look, I have expressed my views on Ron Dennis more than enough times on this forum and I find him a weirdo and I dislike the whole McLaren team. But to think this case was anything other than a money-making scheme from a person looking to get rich quickly, is quite embarrassing. We all know that such racism and sexism accusations are a great way to make a quick buck in this world filled with political correctness and fear of being percieved as even remotely intolerant .

[BDunnell]

I feel quite sorry for the complainant, because to me his behaviour is that of someone who has personal problems of some sort, which isn't nice for anyone.

[SGWilko]

Now, the way I view this case is as follows;

The guy Boland fell asleep on the job, and it is allegeged he was also rude on occasion to guests of McLaren.

Ron asked him to leave, and as I understand, the proper disciplinary procedure was not followed. This has been admitted by Ron.

Boland seems to have seen $$$$ in his eyes, and taken the case to a tribunal, fabricating homophobic and racist stories to up the ante.

It's all gone a bit pear shaped for the guy, and he has had to backtrack.

Does ne1 seriously think that, being under the scrutiny that he constantly is, Ron would cause this backtrack by paying attempting the pay off this chap.

Ioan, please don't insult our itelligence fella, it really is quite demeaning. :down:

[ioan]

Ioan, please don't insult our itelligence fella, it really is quite demeaning. :down:

Don't play that card Wilko, I'm not falling for it.

[Jag_Warrior]

But dropping the case and admitting you lied and made it all up are different things

"...for wasting their time with what I now realise were unfounded allegations. In particular, I apologise to Mr Dennis for suggesting that he is, or was, either racist or homophobic, or that he ever made any remarks or performed any actions that would suggest that he was. I feel great remorse for the upset that I now realise I have needlessly caused to him"

That suggests to me that the guy knew he was in the wrong, so suggesting he was paid off is a bit of a stretch. Regardless, I'm sure the News of the World will run his story in, erm, about three years time :p

I agree with you. At least in the States, when there are out of court settlements, neither party will comment... much less one party admitting that they wasted the other party's time, now feel remorse, etc., etc.

Did Ron Dennis have a countersuit filed or something along those lines? It certainly seems like something rocked this fellow back on his heels.

[BDunnell]

Did Ron Dennis have a countersuit filed or something along those lines? It certainly seems like something rocked this fellow back on his heels.

Now this could be a genuine possibility, unlike some others mentioned here. The statement from Boland is clearly couched in legal-eze.

[christophulus]

I agree with you. At least in the States, when there are out of court settlements, neither party will comment... much less one party admitting that they wasted the other party's time, now feel remorse, etc., etc.

That was the point I was trying to make, if the case had just collapsed then fine, but he was under no obligation to say he was in the wrong - which suggests to me that he was.

I think the explanation above by Wilko about the steward getting a bit greedy and getting in too deep sounds feasible, and I doubt that Ron Dennis would risk paying someone hush-money.


Never saw someone push ahead with a legal process for a long time, lose lots of time and money, just to realize one morning that he is wrong and than drop the charges. This only happens in fairy tales.
In real life charges are dropped after a settlement out of court.

I think the point I/we are trying to make is that he was wrong all along, fabricated some (or all) elements of his story and had to make a rather public apology when he realised McLaren were taking this seriously. Maybe he hoped they'd just pay him a few grand to go away, seems to have backfired on him.

But as ever, I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure..

[PolePosition_1]

You are obviously missing some of the F1 press, especially the one that isn't afraid of writing about RD.

No offense but you often don't know what happens or happened in F1 not so long ago.

I take it once again your not going to bother linking this source which no one else has talked about, presuming no one else has seen.

I check usual press coverage on a regular basis. But I don't read 'Ioans Fantasies' - hence I don't really know about stuff you refer to.

And yes I feel similar, you often don't know what happens or happened in F1 not so long ago.

[PolePosition_1]

Maybe it is as you say, but I don't think that is the case.

See thats better, you admit that it is your opinion he was paid off. Thats fair enough. In previous posts to this one, you go on as if its a fact.

Maybe its because English isn't your first language and not up to scratch, but its a line you seem to cross continously.

[Mifune]

So what, it's my opinion and it can't be precluded without denying my right to freedom of speech.

I must say I’m very impressed with your intimate knowledge of both this particular case and the finer points of the British Administrative Justice and Tribunals Council system in general. You must have read the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act of 2007 from cover to cover. Although you seem to have skipped the part where it makes clear that the tribunal is presided over by a legally qualified Chair essentially a lay person/people with a legal background rather than a bona fide high court Judge or magistrate, I could continue highlighting errors and discrepancies in your so called argument but there isn’t really any point is there? Since you regard other people’s facts as being inferior to your potentially libelous unqualified opinions
I’m sure it’s nothing to do with you enjoying Schadenfreude about Ron’s situation.

[ioan]

I must say I’m very impressed with your intimate knowledge of both this particular case and the finer points of the British Administrative Justice and Tribunals Council system in general. You must have read the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act of 2007 from cover to cover. Although you seem to have skipped the part where it makes clear that the tribunal is presided over by a legally qualified Chair essentially a lay person/people with a legal background rather than a bona fide high court Judge or magistrate, I could continue highlighting errors and discrepancies in your so called argument but there isn’t really any point is there? Since you regard other people’s facts as being inferior to your potentially libelous unqualified opinions
I’m sure it’s nothing to do with you enjoying Schadenfreude about Ron’s situation.

Bla bla bla, attacking the poster and not the post is what you always do, not worth of an answer.

[SGWilko]

not worth of an answer.

So why did you then? Crazy!

[ioan]

So why did you then? Crazy!

Do you call that a real answer? Also read my previous post to you in the other thread. :)

[SGWilko]

Do you call that a real answer?

No, I call it Bob, as in my Mothers' brother (Bob's your Uncle and all that!!!) :D


Also read my previous post to you in the other thread. :)

Been there, done that and now have the T-Shirt.....

[ioan]

Been there, done that and now have the T-Shirt.....

Good, take care not to get a cold. ;)

[SGWilko]

Good, take care not to get a cold. ;)

Hope not, had four in less than 3 months already thanks. ;)

[ioan]

Hope not, had four in less than 3 months already thanks. ;)

Than you better put on your ... jacket! :)

PS: And don't forget to fill your pipe. ;)

[SGWilko]

Than you better put on your ... jacket! :)

PS: And don't forget to fill your pipe. ;)

Ba dum, tish! :)

[BDunnell]

ioan, please leave it out. It's become rather tiresome - again. The rebuttals of your point are all entirely reasonable.

[Dave B]

Now, the way I view this case is as follows;

The guy Boland fell asleep on the job, and it is allegeged he was also rude on occasion to guests of McLaren.

Ron asked him to leave, and as I understand, the proper disciplinary procedure was not followed. This has been admitted by Ron.

Boland seems to have seen $$$$ in his eyes, and taken the case to a tribunal, fabricating homophobic and racist stories to up the ante.

It's all gone a bit pear shaped for the guy, and he has had to backtrack.

Does ne1 seriously think that, being under the scrutiny that he constantly is, Ron would cause this backtrack by paying attempting the pay off this chap.

Ioan, please don't insult our itelligence fella, it really is quite demeaning. :down:


Given that nobody here, nobody, will ever know the exact circumstances of Boland's dismissal and the subsequent tribunal, I'd guess that that is the most likely and logical explanation. :up:

[ShiftingGears]

Bla bla bla, attacking the poster and not the post is what you always do, not worth of an answer.

He is attacking the post.

[Knock-on]

Given that nobody here, nobody, will ever know the exact circumstances of Boland's dismissal and the subsequent tribunal, I'd guess that that is the most likely and logical explanation. :up:

Seems highly likely and logical.

As Ron says, he tried to let the bloke go in a way that wouldn't penalise him in his future life and in doing so, laid himself open for a claim for unfair dismissal.

Boland saw a chink and tried to exploit it assuming Ron didn't want any more publicity.

Big mistake :laugh;

I would imagine that he was told that if he didn't apologise and retract, he would be sued for making a spurious allegation.

[ioan]

ioan, please leave it out. It's become rather tiresome - again. The rebuttals of your point are all entirely reasonable.

Leave it out what?!
Better be more precise next time, your post looks like if it just landed from the Moon.

[Knock-on]

:laugh:

Who could have predicted that ioan would dispute the facts of this matter and come up with his own "proof" to refute the bloody obvious based on web sites that only he can see :D

Do you have a time share on Kimi's private planet ioan?

:laugh:

[BDunnell]

Leave it out what?!
Better be more precise next time, your post looks like if it just landed from the Moon.

'Leave it out' is a perfectly acceptable idiomatic English phrase that ought to be understandable to someone who, just the other day, was correcting another forum member's English.

[Dave B]

Boland saw a chink ...
Racist! :p

[BDunnell]

Racist! :p

:laugh:

[ioan]

'Leave it out' is a perfectly acceptable idiomatic English phrase that ought to be understandable to someone who, just the other day, was correcting another forum member's English.

No offense but even if "leave it out" has it's means you should still use it in a context. That is if you got something to communicate.

[BDunnell]

No offense but even if "leave it out" has it's means you should still use it in a context. That is if you got something to communicate.

Sorry, but as a native speaker, I refuse to take a lecture from you regarding the use of English.

I'll say it again....I don't have any time for Dennis, but even I don't believe he is either racist or homophobic.

I do have it on very good authority, however, that he does unspeakable things to hamsters and other defenceless pets.

Actually, I don't have it on very good authority at all....but I can dream, can't I?

[Knock-on]

No offense but even if "leave it out" has it's means you should still use it in a context. That is if you got something to communicate.

Ben expressed himself in a perfectly acceptable way which I suggest you choose to misinterpret.

However, as your agenda is obviously to take as many threads off subject with petty personal disputes as possibly, I have taken the liberty of explaining things pictorially.

http://www.spicypimps.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/06/bootsnpam_3.jpg


Sorry Pino but sometimes.......

[ArrowsFA1]

I'll say it again...
Why? Didn't repeating the unfounded allegations have the intended effect the first time :laugh:

[BDunnell]

I'll say it again....I don't have any time for Dennis, but even I don't believe he is either racist or homophobic.

I do have it on very good authority, however, that he does unspeakable things to hamsters and other defenceless pets.

Actually, I don't have it on very good authority at all....but I can dream, can't I?

Very good.

And thanks, Knock-on. I was going to draw a diagram in crayon.

Why? Didn't repeating the unfounded allegations have the intended effect the first time :laugh:

No, just trying to help bring a bit of reason to the party, that's all.

I'm surprised you aren't happy about that.

The accusations were totally unfounded, I've said I always believed they were, on a previous thread I said that until the matter was judged by a tribunal it would be totally unfair to criticise Ron based on such allegations, so all in all I think I've been pretty reasonable....

...mind you, maybe it's not surprising that you're not happy about that, given that you were ready with the noose for Mosley in his legal battle last year?

Ben expressed himself in a perfectly acceptable way which I suggest you choose to misinterpret.

However, as your agenda is obviously to take as many threads off subject with petty personal disputes as possibly, I have taken the liberty of explaining things pictorially.

http://www.spicypimps.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/06/bootsnpam_3.jpg


Sorry Pino but sometimes.......

And you wonder why people are rude to you?

[pino]

Great show guys...thank you :rolleyes: