Barber Park wants the Detriot date

[MDS]

Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham wants to host a race on Labor Day this year, and they are pursuing the IRL as they pretty much realize the IRL isn't going to pursue them.


"We are going to reach out to them on Monday and track them down over the holidays," said Gene Hallman, president of Zoom Motorsports, which is working to bring the race to Barber. The IRL really should try to fill the date because teams sold their sponsorship based on 18 races, not 17. Replacing the race, and doing so quickly, would be a massive infusion of confidence in the health of the series.

I think Barber is perhaps the best solution outside of Montreal. The IRL schedule has a huge gap in the south, and Birmingham is only about two hours away from Atlanta. It's right off of I-20. It's a well laid out road course, and we know it works for the current cars because they do preseason testing there.

Honestly, there probably aren't that many tracks out there clammoring to be part of the 2009 schedule. So if Barber can make the race work for them, I think they'd be a good choice. If they nail it down I'll be there

http://www.al.com/motorsports/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/sports/122985095036590.xml&coll=2

http://www.barbermotorsports.com/

[Spiderman]

This would be a good choice!

[anthonyvop]

Barber is beautiful facility and a great track for Motorcycles. It is very narrow though and any IRL race there will be a parade.

[Phoenixent]

I think they should put on a 500 miler at MIS. That way the fans from Detroit could still attend a race in there state. Barber Park is nice but IRL needs to reestablish the 500 miler Triple Crown.

[MDS]

I think they should put on a 500 miler at MIS. That way the fans from Detroit could still attend a race in there state. Barber Park is nice but IRL needs to reestablish the 500 miler Triple Crown.

I don't think you'll get any arugment about the need to get MIS and CIS on the schedule with 500 mile races, but MIS has been dicked around by the IRL in getting a date, and probably won't be jumping to add a last minute date two weeks after the last NASCAR race.

The context of the situation is who is available to fill a gap on the 2009 schedule on Labor Day. Out of the tracks we know tired to get on the 2009 schedule its probably too late to add Cleveland or Houston; Road America is a possibilty; as is Portland; Loudon and Michigan both have Cup dates within two weeks of of Labor Day; Las Vegas would be an ideal location, but if they're interested I don't see it; Nashville got dumped so I find it unlikely they would take a risk without a long term contract; Miller Motorsports Park in Utah is an interesting location as well.

The only track that has expressed public interest at this point is Barber. The league had already been in contact with Montreal and its possible this move had to come as part of negotiations with that track. Portland International and Road America are other players trying to land the date. I believe if they fill the date its more than likely going to be with Portland, Montreal or Road America, but Barber makes a certain amount of sense, and they are clearly interested.

As far as Barber being a parade, they hosted a Grand Am a few years back, it wasn't horrible.

[vintage]

Is the spelling of Detroit as DetRIOT a freudian slip?

[NickFalzone]

I've never seen a race there, but all the driver's seem to love the track. Good to hear someone is out there asking for the spot, but unfortunately it's going to take $$, is Barber willing to pay the sanctioning fee?

[DanicaFan]

IndyCar tested at Barber this year and are going to test there again in March 2009.

[Chamoo]

I've never seen a race there, but all the driver's seem to love the track. Good to hear someone is out there asking for the spot, but unfortunately it's going to take $$, is Barber willing to pay the sanctioning fee?

They seem to be making a hard push. Perhaps they let the IRL test for free and get a discounted sanctioning fee? Or maybe they have some cash saved up?

[MDS]

I don't know how much a sanctioning fee Barber is willing to pay, but my bet is they aren't asking for the race for free. Its my understanding they would run the race on Labor Day this year with the goal of having a race in late March, possibly a season opening date, in 2010.

As far as the course being too narrow, its a uniform 45 feet long and most of the turns have ample runoff areas. I think the IRL record is somewhere around 1:04. I'm not sure about how many passing areas, but its a fun course to drive.

[bblocker68]

I'd love to see them run at Barber or Miller over a street race...........except for Cleveland, which is in the street category, but we all know it's much better than a street race.

[Easy Drifter]

MDS: Uniform 45 feet long? Man is that some short course! :eek:

Sorry. I couln't resist. :D

[call_me_andrew]

As much as I like Barber Motorsports Park, I think they would be an awful choice for a Labor Day weekend race. They're in the gulf coast, and that's hurricane season. You do the math.

[Birdman5700]

Why doesn't TG just have another race at The Speedway on the road course? They have Moto GP the next week so they would alread have the road course set up.

Just a thought...

[Mark in Oshawa]

Barber? Good plan in theory if you MUST get to 18 dates for contractual obligations. Barber wants the race, and the IRL needs to keep 18 on the sched. The fact that Barber has to chase the IRL says something. The second Detroit was cancelled I wanted to hear a press release from the IRL stating they were looking at a replacement date to fill that vacuum and that this is a sad day for the IRL losing a valuable partner. Instead.........nothing much was said.

This is distressing in a different way than the crisis a week CCWS was but it is still distressing. You never really feel anyone is worried yet they should be. If the IRL is the place to be ( and I think in time it should be again ) then the IRL has to show they are in charge of the series destiny and losing a date due to economic turmoil is counterbalanced by the feeling that the IRL saw it coming and was looking at other options. Barber should be an option (even though I think it is too tight for the IRL cars)if for no other reason than it is in a market they need and they are offereing.

Hurricane season is an issue BTW but not the end of the world. The chances of a Labor day hurricane washing out racing in Alabama 5 hours north of the gulf are actually slim. Listen, hurricane season never deterred NASCAR from running races in the southeast so why should it stop the IRL? Last time I looked, Indycar wasn't scared of running in the rain.....

[NickFalzone]

The IRL did address the loss of Belle Isle, but you're right that they didn't mention any kind of replacement (or desire to do so):

http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=12939

As far as Barber in the rain, I agree that's not such a bad deal. Not great for the fans in attendance, but I imagine the race would go fine unless it was a constant downpour. The worst events are rained out ovals, bad for everyone.

[MDS]

The fact that Barber has to chase the IRL says something. The second Detroit was cancelled I wanted to hear a press release from the IRL stating they were looking at a replacement date to fill that vacuum and that this is a sad day for the IRL losing a valuable partner. Instead.........nothing much was said.


I think it says more about IRL managment than it does Barber.

If Andretti hadn't lobbied hard for Toronto it wouldn't have made the schedule. If KK hadn't made Edmonton part of the merger contract the IRL wouldn't have gone to Edmonton. Even after Montreal had the F-1 race pulled from them the quote from the IRL managmeent was "If they call us about it, we might be interested."

The IRL isn't in the business of hustling. So long as the stands fill for the I500 and 400 they really don't so much care about the rest of the league. They take the path of least resistance. Why do you think they have so many dates at ISC and SMI facilities? Because its easier to work out one contract than it is to pursue a number of different facilities.

If Barber, Portland, or Road America doesn't go after that date hard the IRL probably won't move to fill it, because that would take, you know, some effort.

[Mark in Oshawa]

MDS...so what you are saying is IRL Management aka Tony George really don't care about the rest of the series? I am afraid to an extent their is a validity in that arguement and I am hoping you are wrong....

[MDS]

Mark, I get the feeling that there isn't a lot of hustle in the IRL management, and its evidenced pretty regularly. I've talked with several people who worked in the league office and they all said words to the effect of its a league built to service one race track, not one race track built to service a league.

I think the biggest example of this Indy first mentality is the BS about refusing to run and IRL race on the third Sunday in July because they can't staff the Brickyard 400 and an IRL race at the same time. Until KK forced Edmonton on them the IRL sat idle on a prime summer weekend because they are running a race with the same staff you are using to run your league. Even now, Edmonton is being run on a Saturday afternoon for the only reason being a lack of front office staff in the IRL.

In NASCAR, all of the Cup, NNS, and CTS series are completely seperate from the ISC personal. This allows the track people to focus on track affairs and league officals to handle league affiars. Not only does this keep an ethical firewall between the two, but it allows both sides to be solely focused on their aspect and not trying to serve two masters.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Mark, I get the feeling that there isn't a lot of hustle in the IRL management, and its evidenced pretty regularly. I've talked with several people who worked in the league office and they all said words to the effect of its a league built to service one race track, not one race track built to service a league.

I think the biggest example of this Indy first mentality is the BS about refusing to run and IRL race on the third Sunday in July because they can't staff the Brickyard 400 and an IRL race at the same time. Until KK forced Edmonton on them the IRL sat idle on a prime summer weekend because they are running a race with the same staff you are using to run your league. Even now, Edmonton is being run on a Saturday afternoon for the only reason being a lack of front office staff in the IRL.

In NASCAR, all of the Cup, NNS, and CTS series are completely seperate from the ISC personal. This allows the track people to focus on track affairs and league officals to handle league affiars. Not only does this keep an ethical firewall between the two, but it allows both sides to be solely focused on their aspect and not trying to serve two masters.

If anyone is paying attention, this post in a nutshell is WHY I am never going to go easy on TG. It is this constant worry about the IMS to the detriment of the series and other events that seems to be just below the surface. Now I know there are a few who will try to defend this sort of thing and demand MDS provide proof of all of this but I too have no problem believing this.

In the end, TG worries about Indy first and the other events afterwards. When they lost Detroit, there was no real evidence anyone noticed in head office and thought about what they could do to fill that date. Barber wants a race and likely could put together a business plan to make both sides happy yet we hear NOTHING about replacing the date. Say what you want about the Amigos and Champ Car (and I said a lot negative in the last 2 years of the series) but they never stopped trying to communicate where they were going and to at least put a PR spin on things. I just keep waiting for the IRL head office to say something....anything...

[NickFalzone]

Mark, I think it's the difference between the tortoise and the hare. IRL management seems to believe that slow and steady wins the race. This moderation is a small part of the reason why the IRL outlasted CC, and also the reason why they have not taken the losses that say NASCAR has. With unification, i'm willing to give the current management 3-5 years, through the new car, to get their crap together and really make something of this series. 2010-11 is really the time to sell their product to sponsors and the public. I do not think that slow and steady will ultimately win the race, I think they're going to go under if things do not improve marketing-wise.

[Mark in Oshawa]

NASCAR really hasn't taken any losses yet Nick. As for them outlasting CART/CCWS, I would suggest they had deeper pockets and more resolve, not necessarily better ideas. If they did, they wouldn't have had to take on old CCWS events or even pay any attention to any thought of a merger.

It comes down to the fact that the IRL has not been marketed really well, but that by itself isn't new. Most racing series are not really able to market their product but I do think the IRL could have done better. What is more if the IRL wants to gain back the lost ground they lost to NASCAR they have to be BETTER than NASCAR. Getting on VS for all but 5 dates isn't going to do it. Getting people like Gene Simmons 3 years ago certainly didn't do it.

This requires bold marketing and maybe spending money in ways they haven't before to get media buzz and get people thinking that this form of racing is a great show and better than NASCAR. 20 years ago most Americans outside the southeast thought of Indy first and NASCAR second. Now it is the other way around.

Losing a date on Labor day isn't the end of the world but the quiet response or lack therof says to me that there is too much analysis by paralysis. Barber wants to put on the race. Negotiate a deal and send a team or two down there to test and figure out if the race at that track is worth doing...

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Portland would be the ideal candidate both market-wise and track-wise. It is a region of the US where NASCAR hasn't reared its head yet. Plus, it is a traditional Indycar cicuit where the wide front straight used to present some passing opportunities. What's the weather like in Oregon around Labor Day?

[ykiki]

Portland would be the ideal candidate both market-wise and track-wise. It is a region of the US where NASCAR hasn't reared its head yet. Plus, it is a traditional Indycar cicuit where the wide front straight used to present some passing opportunities. What's the weather like in Oregon around Labor Day?

Usually sunny & warm (70's). But remember this is the Pacific NW, so it really could rain at any time - but it's not likely around Labor Day.

[Easy Drifter]

The total silence from the IRL on a replacement is troubling. Any sort of a PR statement would be preferable.
Even saying "We are not looking to replace this race in these tough times to give our teams a chance to rest" would be preferable and at least get some badly needed PR. Or just say that "We are considering our options and looking into possible feasible alternative venues."
Either would garner coverage, even if not true in the latter case.
Saying nothing means no PR. This holiday break is the perfect time for a release as there is very little news on racing from any series so it would garner more attention than normal.

[MDS]

One reason the IRL isn't saying much is because their are other tracks out there who want the date, Portland being one of them. The other reason is they don't have good PR help.

As someone who has done a lot of sports marketing in his career and owns his own company its my professional opinion that the money that was spent on Gene Simmons was wasted cash. During that time he created one slogan, a song and a comic book? Really, that was about the sum total of his labor.

What a lot of management doesn't understand is the constant need to control their own press by putting out information in a timely, event-centered manor. A couple of years ago we pitched the IRL the idea of letting our firm take over their marketing efforts. We pitched a comprehensive package that would have incorporated a lot of the successful ideas NASCAR used and tailored them to the IRL. They weren't interested, and after negotiations ended we gave them our package and a set of contacts to enact some of our ideas on their own, just because I'm a fan. They returned the package the same day it arrived at their HQ

[Chamoo]

One reason the IRL isn't saying much is because their are other tracks out there who want the date, Portland being one of them. The other reason is they don't have good PR help.

As someone who has done a lot of sports marketing in his career and owns his own company its my professional opinion that the money that was spent on Gene Simmons was wasted cash. During that time he created one slogan, a song and a comic book? Really, that was about the sum total of his labor.

What a lot of management doesn't understand is the constant need to control their own press by putting out information in a timely, event-centered manor. A couple of years ago we pitched the IRL the idea of letting our firm take over their marketing efforts. We pitched a comprehensive package that would have incorporated a lot of the successful ideas NASCAR used and tailored them to the IRL. They weren't interested, and after negotiations ended we gave them our package and a set of contacts to enact some of our ideas on their own, just because I'm a fan. They returned the package the same day it arrived at their HQ

That is their problem, the ego. They think they know it all, and are happy to think that way no matter what.

[Easy Drifter]

Yes, getting coverage is fairly easy if it is done right. Many years ago I did PR for a small Cdn. team. In those days Motor Racing was not even a blip on mainstreams' newspaper, radio and TV radar.
Yet I got coverage in every Toronto paper (3) and most radio stations and one of the two TV stations in Toronto at the time. Some used my press releases verbatim and some did rewrites but it got coverage.
I timed my releases for slow sports days. Definetely not Mondays.
If you get the info out there it will get coverage.
I have also organized non motor racing events locally and had no trouble getting press in local papers, radio and TV. The TV station is now A-TV Barrie which has received multi awards for it's news productions. It reaches into the Toronto market.
I also wangled a 1 hour TV show on the local cable station. (My wife was supposed to do the show but became sick (yeah right) just before the crew arrived to do the taping. I am a terrible speaker but managed to produce a fairly good performance. I got asked for more autographs from that show than I did in 9 years of racing.)
The point being that if you put out something feasible and to the point you will get coverage. Rambling like I have just done will not work for commercial coverage.

[Mark in Oshawa]

5 bucks the IRL never does fill the Labor Day date this year and at some point puts out a press release basically stating they didn't want to get in the way of the NFL season starting and some tripe to that effect.

That of course is assuming they say anything.


To think......these genius types think they know how to market racing. I am starting to wonder if they could market water to a man dying of thirst....

[NickFalzone]

Mark, I think it's a little more complicated than that. IRL management, including TG, has said on several occasions that it should not be up the the IRL itself to do the brunt of the marketing. He pointed to NASCAR, where the sponsors take care of most of that. Basically this means that the IRL won't be well marketed until a title sponsor, etc. comes on to really promote the series. It's the chicken and the egg. The IRL is not interested in hustling to get their product wider recognition. I do not agree with this approach entirely, as I don't think the series will inevitably grow without some nurturing over the next few years. But I'm just clarifying the IRL's stance here, it's not necessarily lack of talent or interest exactly, it's the corporate marketing philosophy.

[MDS]

Nick, I think that's a pretty accurate read of the front office mentality. I have to disagree with you that the IRL is exhibiting a "corporate marketing philosophy." Most corporations aggressively market and protect their brand. What they have is a, "We're just as good and relevant as NASCAR, so we should recieve the exact same treatment."

Yes, NASCAR got popular in large part because of how Winston promoted itself through the series, and that got magnified by other sponsors coming on board. The problem is the IRL has never been NASCAR.

I think you made valid point, but is a lack of hustle. There are things they could be doing, but aren't that could drive interest. There are things they would allow to happen if someone else wanted to pay and organize it, but its asking too much for them to pursue it themselves.

Among the ideas we pitched was doing a Preview in the style of the Winston Preview they used to hold in NC. It's realtively cheap and if done on a slow week in the beginning of the year its a great way to get coverage, and a natural place for teams to announce sponsorships and drivers for the upcomming year. There response was "Good idea, Do you know any sponsor who would be interested in putting that on for us?" I knew at that point I was wasting my time.

To bring it back to the topic, I'm pretty sure the reason Barber is making their plans public is to put the ball into the IRL's court. By showing that they are trying to help the sport, they have to put the IRL in place of eventually defending its actions.

[Jag_Warrior]

NASCAR really hasn't taken any losses yet Nick. As for them outlasting CART/CCWS, I would suggest they had deeper pockets and more resolve, not necessarily better ideas. If they did, they wouldn't have had to take on old CCWS events or even pay any attention to any thought of a merger.

It comes down to the fact that the IRL has not been marketed really well, but that by itself isn't new. Most racing series are not really able to market their product but I do think the IRL could have done better. What is more if the IRL wants to gain back the lost ground they lost to NASCAR they have to be BETTER than NASCAR. Getting on VS for all but 5 dates isn't going to do it. Getting people like Gene Simmons 3 years ago certainly didn't do it.

This requires bold marketing and maybe spending money in ways they haven't before to get media buzz and get people thinking that this form of racing is a great show and better than NASCAR. 20 years ago most Americans outside the southeast thought of Indy first and NASCAR second. Now it is the other way around.

Losing a date on Labor day isn't the end of the world but the quiet response or lack therof says to me that there is too much analysis by paralysis. Barber wants to put on the race. Negotiate a deal and send a team or two down there to test and figure out if the race at that track is worth doing...

:up:

Excellent post!

I'm also not aware of NASCAR taking extraordinary losses (relative to the IRL). I think most people would take it as a safe bet that there will be 43 stock cars to take the flag at Daytona. I don't think there are nearly as many who would want to take a bet on how many cars the IRL will have to take the flag at St. Petersburg.

Andrew Craig had and expressed the belief that it was not the job of CART to market the series or the races. Of course, at that time, CART and most of its teams were ripe with sponsorship. But still, look at how that turned out. If Tony George has that same belief, in regard to the IRL, given the lack of independent sponsorship, the road to 2013 may be a bumpy one. NASCAR, on the other hand, does market itself... though not nearly as much as its sponsors.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Jag.... NASCAR markets itself WAY more than just about any other racing series on the planet in a direct fashion. You see the commercials for "how bad do you have it?" and their "Hometown tracks" promotion promoting stock racing in general. You have NEVER really seen on any consistent basis this sort of ad on TV for ANY other race series.

What people in the IRL office have to realize that building a fan base means constantly reminding people what a great product you have, even in a very gentle and subtle fashion. Showing aggressive PR responses to concerns with your series is another way of getting the press to do your work for you.

Here we have Barber putting it to the IRL that they want a date. A PR response would be "We thank Barber for their interest and we look forward to investigating a partnership." NASCAR would come out and say "Barber is an option we wish to pursue and we will be making an appointment next week with the management." and then go and do so. The IRL just said Detroit is off.......

Can anyone see where this is heading?

AS for Andrew Craig's assertion that CART didn't need to market the series, well we saw how long and well THAT lasted didn't we? Morons....people running OW racing in the last decade and a half have any success purely based on luck and having a decent product, it certainly hasn't been by clever thinking....

[Easy Drifter]

The WOO, who I have critisized for their marketing, do a far far better job than IRL.
The silence surrounding the Toronto IRL race has been deafining since the date announcement.
ALMS and Mosport have done far more local promotion.
NASCAR will have a display at the upcoming Cdn. Motorsport Expo with Dale E's car and Jimmie Johnson's car.
Mosport will be there although I am not sure just what their display will be.
IRL and AGR? Who knows but I doubt it.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The WOO, who I have critisized for their marketing, do a far far better job than IRL.
The silence surrounding the Toronto IRL race has been deafining since the date announcement.
ALMS and Mosport have done far more local promotion.
NASCAR will have a display at the upcoming Cdn. Motorsport Expo with Dale E's car and Jimmie Johnson's car.
Mosport will be there although I am not sure just what their display will be.
IRL and AGR? Who knows but I doubt it.

I would think Mikey Andretti would be on the ball and have something there. I would hope anyhow.

NASCAR kicks everyone's rear when it comes to promoting their form of racing because they make sure they have a presence no matter what the forum. IRL seems to think the promotors on a local level are responsible for their markets. Stupid thinking because the sad reality is that once a market is lost, it is lost for good and it reflects in your TV ratings. Last time I looked, the IRL needed better numbers to stay on ESPN and didn't get them.

Also, if you are allowing the promotors to frame your series for their vision, your message and desires are lost. This passive view of marketing is really stupid and lazy and it is the main complaint I am having with the IRL going forward. The CCWS guys were inept clods but at least they kept making noise......that is almost preferable to the cone of silence approach.

[Easy Drifter]

Yes Nascar do the best job. My main local papers the Midland Free Press (Bi-weekly) and The Orillia Packet and Times (Daily) have a full page NASCAR promo piece every week all year round.
It is not officially NASCAR but I suspect there is a close tie in, especially as there is never anything really critical of NASCAR.
I expect most of the Osprey Newspaper chain, if not all, carry this page and they cover most of rural Ont.
NASCAR themed T shirts and Jackets are everywhere with a few F1 items around, even some WOO. I have never seen any IRL items.
Remember I was in retail until last spring with a sporting crowd customer base.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Drifter...the sad part is NASCAR has ignored and basically paid lip service to the Canadian market until 2 years ago and the amount of NASCAR fans per capita in Canada is probably a lot higher than it is in some US states!

[Easy Drifter]

Very true. But I also think Canada has more motorsport fans per capita than many US states.
Mosport for Regional races has quite a few spectators (not a huge #) but the races are not advertised. You have to ferret out the dates. I go to most of them now.
Short Track racing is big, especially in Ont. and Quebec.
By the way tickets go on sale tomorrow for the WOO at Oshweken.
I heard a vague rumour about an IRL race in Toronto put on by some Michael guy. :rolleyes:

[Mark in Oshawa]

Very true. But I also think Canada has more motorsport fans per capita than many US states.
Mosport for Regional races has quite a few spectators (not a huge #) but the races are not advertised. You have to ferret out the dates. I go to most of them now.
Short Track racing is big, especially in Ont. and Quebec.
By the way tickets go on sale tomorrow for the WOO at Oshweken.
I heard a vague rumour about an IRL race in Toronto put on by some Michael guy. :rolleyes:

I should get tickets for the Outlaws this year but I cannot commit that far ahead when I am supposed to go see a NHRA show at some point this year.

I plan on being in Toronto for the return of the IRL but I found out they didn't invite SCCA World Challenge and they are the only series left I have an in with to get in free. Pay for a ticket?? God help me I might....

[Easy Drifter]

Well IRL finally issued a press release today. All about what IRL drivers were driving at the Daytona 24 hrs., Sarah Fisher with a sponsor and Milka Duno in a parade.
Not a word about a replacement race. Not a word about a booth or anything at the Cdn. Motorsports Expo.

As an aside the Chili Bowl tickets are sold out for Wed. thru Sat. Some tickets available for Tues. This is an indoor Midget race. 24 to start the A main Sat. The number of cars entered to try for those 24 spots is a new record. Two Hundred and Ninety three cars!!!! No wonder they start qualifications on Tues.

Somebody has their act together.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well IRL finally issued a press release today. All about what IRL drivers were driving at the Daytona 24 hrs., Sarah Fisher with a sponsor and Milka Duno in a parade.
Not a word about a replacement race. Not a word about a booth or anything at the Cdn. Motorsports Expo.

As an aside the Chili Bowl tickets are sold out for Wed. thru Sat. Some tickets available for Tues. This is an indoor Midget race. 24 to start the A main Sat. The number of cars entered to try for those 24 spots is a new record. Two Hundred and Ninety three cars!!!! No wonder they start qualifications on Tues.

Somebody has their act together.

If the IRL was run as well as the organizers of the Chili Bowl run their event...we wouldn't have much to complain about would we?