Detroit Grand Prix canceled for 2009

[Rex Monaco]

The move reduces the 2009 IndyCar schedule to 17 races, and the ALMS schedule to 10.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081218/FREE/812189976

[DBell]

I hate to see a race cancelled, but I agree with Starter. It's going to be a very tough year. If a road race had to go, then this would be the one I miss the least. This or Sears Point.

[The instant classic]

befor the 2009 year starts i can see more races getting canceled

[Mark in Oshawa]

Sad...really sad. Detroit just keeps getting kicked in the teeth. Yet someone was telling me how Detroit was such a money maker and blah blah blah not two years ago.

Obviously Penske was making the event work but with the economy of Detroit going south and losing his interest in IMSA's ALMS he decided to pull the plug. I don't see how this event really could make it as it was but I was glad it was making it. To see it go sucks but this series and the ALMS both have to make money or at least see their promotors make money to keep events alive.

[SarahFan]

one step back to ovalcentric

[fugariracing]

one step back to ovalcentric

I kind of doubt that given how many ovals have been dropped over the years. If anything I'd bet on a return to more permanent road courses, but not for '09, likely '10. Likely the Clevelands, Road Americas, Barber, Millers of the world.

I wouldn't be surprised, hate to say it, to see more street courses dropped per construction costs in the future.

It's kind of like CC redux all over again...

[CCWS77]

So are we going to have a repeat of the Surfers thread where a bunch of posters try and convince us it is somehow great planning to cancel events because they currently are not working economically? Or can we all admit that was a bunch of propoganda B.S. and it is actually bad news when established races fall by the wayside?

[downtowndeco]

If a race doesn't work it doesn't work. I'd rather see this go than an oval, that's for sure.

[The instant classic]

If a race doesn't work it doesn't work. I'd rather see this go than an oval, that's for sure.
amen to that!!!!!!

[Easy Drifter]

Not taking any side in the usual argument I never could see Belle Isle working in the long term. A race in Detroit yes, just not Belle Isle.
I was never to a race there but I have been to Belle Isle to their wonderful Aquarium. I was privledged to a behind the scenes tour. What they do in that antiquated facility is beyond belief!
Access to and from the Isle is extremely limited as is space to provide parking and spectator viewing. In good times and relying on TV revenues partially based on the semi exotic site could offset the spectator logistic drawbacks.
One possible plus, note possible, might be to open a date for a race in Mtl. ALMS are already committed to a race at Mosport at the end of Aug. and Dr. Panoz owns Mosport.
Still basically not a positive bit of news for either series.

[FormerFF]

Let's face it: 2009 and probably 2010 are all about survival. Just being around at the end of 2010 should be considered success. It stinks, but that's the way it is.

On the bright side, Turner Classic Movies is showing "LeMans" right now.

[NickFalzone]

I figured we'd lose Belle Isle 09 or latest 10 anyway, but replaced by something like Portland. Down to 17 is bad, but I agree it's better than losing an oval. What concerns me more is that this is potentially a sign of another race or two getting canned, which would be very disappointing.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Not taking any side in the usual argument I never could see Belle Isle working in the long term. A race in Detroit yes, just not Belle Isle.
I was never to a race there but I have been to Belle Isle to their wonderful Aquarium. I was privledged to a behind the scenes tour. What they do in that antiquated facility is beyond belief!
Access to and from the Isle is extremely limited as is space to provide parking and spectator viewing. In good times and relying on TV revenues partially based on the semi exotic site could offset the spectator logistic drawbacks.
One possible plus, note possible, might be to open a date for a race in Mtl. ALMS are already committed to a race at Mosport at the end of Aug. and Dr. Panoz owns Mosport.
Still basically not a positive bit of news for either series.


You likely wouldn't get a reply Drifter to your suggestion of Montreal from many but it would work.

You oval centric guys don't cry about Detroit going and I can concede it wasn't a great race track but I don't like to see any city lose a race they have had for a few years in one form or another. That said, Belle Isle was a bit of a comprimise.

Montreal lost their f1 race. Would they take IndyCar's as a replacement? Well it worked in Long Beach, but that was decades ago and Long Beach is a little more relaxed about this sort of thing than Montreal. There is no lack of race fans there, you just have to convince them they will enjoy the IRL as much as the CCWS or F1 or NASCAR, all who have raced or are racing there.

[Chris R]

My first reaction was that ChampCars scheduling problems must have been part of the merger - but I suppose this is much more about the economy and little to do with the IRL per se...

Hopefully, Montreal, Road America or Portland will take its place.....

[MDS]

The good thing about down economies is it shows you who's dedicated and whose working under a solid business model.

I've seen this coming for a while now. The Detriot race was underwritten by a local of local government who supported spending the money for its economic impact, but with having to slash services couldn't justify spending tax money on a sporting event.

I don't see this effecting Long Beach and I would think Toronto and Edmonton should survive this year. The Tampa economy is stronger than Detroit, so that should bode well for that event.

The downside means that there will be a month and a half between Chicago and Homestead, with the only race in between, and that being Motegi. What a horrible way to build interest in your season ending point chase.

[FIAT1]

ROAD AMERICA would make perfect choice.

[Vim Fuego]

So are we going to have a repeat of the Surfers thread where a bunch of posters try and convince us it is somehow great planning to cancel events because they currently are not working economically? Or can we all admit that was a bunch of propoganda B.S. and it is actually bad news when established races fall by the wayside?
I doubt the other side will ever admit that.
They all seem to think dumping Surfers is good because it is outside of NA but want to see the IRL start series in Europe and Asia.
For them losing Detroit is good because they think an oval will take its place.
I think they are wrong. (llama)(rasta)

[Vim Fuego]

ROAD AMERICA would make perfect choice.
Then the transformation to CART vision Tony would be complete.
I hope it never happens. ;)

[downtowndeco]

Then the transformation to CART vision Tony would be complete.
I hope it never happens. ;)


Why don't you want it to happen? Out of spite or...?

[Pat Wiatrowski]

ROAD AMERICA would make perfect choice.

No it Would not be.

I can not see Milw or Iowa happening either.

[SarahFan]

TG says if the IRL isn't profitable by 2013 it will be shut down....

you gotta think less incoming sanctioning fee(s) are going to make that tougher and tougher to accomplish..

[MDS]

Well, maybe there can be an added race in that span somewhere. It would have to be an existing track as street races make even less economic sense than usual right now. The point made above about cities having a really hard time justifying it while laying off employees and cutting services is right on the mark. It would still be a stretch to get one though without heavy subsidation of the costs. I still think that racing in general is going to have a rough time over the next two years. Cancelling the Detroit race and Honda bailing from F1 is just the beginning.


Clearly racing is going to have a tough 2009 and probably 2010 (Or possibly longer depending on what the Obama administration does) with survival being the goal rather than growth. As far as adding another race this year, I doubt it will or could happen. Mansfield canceled their truck race a couple of days, and putting together an event from scratch in this economy is going to be difficult. There are only four ways could see it working:

Option A: Tacking onto an existing weekend from another series. Phoenix has offered to give the IRL a Thursday night slot in the past, but neither would work with the current schedule. The NNS date at Montreal conflicts with the Chicago date. There are no ALMS dates during that time period. The only Grand Am date conflicts with Motegi so I don't really see any viable last-minute teamups.

Option B: Montreal has a bank of existing sponsors its had to refund money to for the F-1 race. Its not beyond belief to think they could approach these same sponsors for an ICS race and raise enough to hold a 2009 race on Sept. 9 in short order. I think they are the only track that could raise enough capitol in a short period of time to put on a successful event that has shown any interest. Loudon and Las Vegas probably would have been options if they hadn't gotten burned in the initial schedule discussions.

Option C: The Streets of Trois-Rivieres. The street race is already largely paid for and doesn't have a major headlining series. Mazda Star and Atlantics are going to be there and if the ICS showed up it would take the event to another level. This is, in my mind, the strongest option for a ready-made event for the ICS to jump to. It's sitting on an empty weekend between Mid-Ohio and Infineon, and could be at least revenue neutral for the league and the teams.

Option D: Tony George rents a track. It's far from ideal but George gets together with another promoter and rents a track like Portland, Las Vegas or Mazda Speedway with the idea that he's funding a beta-test for 2010. If the event is successful he could essentially hand off or sell it the date to a promoter who could try and build a long term stable date off of it.


Honestly, given the IRL's track record, the schedule will be run with 17 or less races, as I wouldn't be shocked to see St. Pete go away in the next couple of weeks.

[garyshell]

I doubt the other side will ever admit that.
They all seem to think dumping Surfers is good because it is outside of NA but want to see the IRL start series in Europe and Asia.
For them losing Detroit is good because they think an oval will take its place.
I think they are wrong. (llama)(rasta)


Other side? Some of us here who were former CART fans, understood the reason why Surfers was dropped... no date that was acceptable to both sides. All dates floated had conflicts with scheduling boundaries that both parties had, mostly dealing with competing with other national sporting events.

Gary

[MDS]

Your other options could happen, but this one I doubt. I love three creeks (it was the 1st street race I ever went to way back when), however it is terrible from the safety stand point. It would never pass an insurance inspection for this class of cars. I'm very surprised that Atlantics and such still run there for that reason.

I'm not aware of the current safety situtation there, I thought good deal of the issues were fixed when the Atlantics and Mazda Star started there, but I don't know. Like you I'm surprised if they're racing on a subpar course.

Perhaps there could be some deal with help from Andretti promotions, and partnership with Toronto to reuse some of the equipment and address the safety concerns.

[NYHF]

ROAD AMERICA would make perfect choice.

. . . As would Cleveland.

[NY2IA]

YES-lets get Road America on the 2009 schedule! Can races still get added for next year?

[Easy Drifter]

Hey Starter: I didn't think anybody but Cdn. racers (including some of the Quebec drivers and crews) called it 'three creeks'. Actually most of us said 'three cricks'.
I am not sure of the safety aspects (it has been years since I was there) but lack of spectator areas and parking would be a concern. Also the track would be a little tight for IRL cars, although Trans Am have raced there.
Indy cars through the Arch would be quite a sight. I remember Gilles going through there completely sideways lap after lap. There was no way he could be passed. He took up the whole da---d road!
Mtl. would be likely looking for a race to replace the GP. Just do not let LeGault near it!

[cobre]

I hate to see any race dropped from the schedule; round or mapquest. but face it, the detroit race stunk big piles. i hope they can replace it and get the schedule to 18. but i think this is the first of several to be hacked off.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

YES-lets get Road America on the 2009 schedule! Can races still get added for next year?

NO NO NO! Not wanted.

[ykiki]

NO NO NO! Not wanted.

Why is it not wanted?

[Mark in Oshawa]

ykiki, it isn't wanted by Pat because Pat is an IRL fan who likely is one wanting more ovals. I could be wrong and if I am apolgize to Pat but for anyone to not want Road America likely doesn't like road racing period.

Montreal would be the most realisitic replacement for Detroit and the sponsors are there but no one in Montreal appears to have picked up on this option yet.

Three Creeks would never work. I think the track is just too tight and the town is too small for the IRL to even think in passing about going there. I love the racing there but it is for smaller cars really. That said, ALMS went there and THAT was a spectacle.

The IRL needs strong dates and needs good partners. That said, Tony's boast that if the series isn't making money he would shut it down, I would like to tell Tony that as much as he "owns" this series, in a sense he doesn't. After 13 long years of losing money fighting CART and CCWS, he finally is the king of open wheel and now he is talking euthanasia? Excuse me Tony...but take a long walk of a short pier. Half the reason this series is not economically viable is because of your mismanagement and your long protracted battle to gain control over OW Racing. There is a reason NASCAR has taken over North America's race fans to a large degree and you can only look in the mirror if you cant make this go. You do however OWE it to us to make it work.....it is the least you can do.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

Why is it not wanted?

Some of us Road Racing Road America fans/supporters do not want the irl soiling RA.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ok Pat...I apologize. I don't think the world will stop turning if the IRL runs at Road America and maybe the track management might see it differently than you but I kind of get your feelings.

There are people around that dislike the IRL more than I used to......lol....

[-Helix-]

I hate to see any race dropped from the schedule; round or mapquest. but face it, the detroit race stunk big piles. i hope they can replace it and get the schedule to 18. but i think this is the first of several to be hacked off.

My thoughts exactly. Not a huge loss, but hopefully they can replace the date.

[ykiki]

Some of us Road Racing Road America fans/supporters do not want the irl soiling RA.

Ok, I see where you're coming from, and I understand it to a point. When I first read your point, I thought you didn't like Road America for some reason.

Still, perhaps when IndyCars again run with a nice, sweet sounding turbo...

[Mark in Oshawa]

I can live without the turbo, I just don't think the IndyCar we are seeing now is a very attractive nor efficient race car.