Italian Rally News [Archive] - Page 12

Jarek Z

15th December 2013, 17:31

Robert Kubica, severely infected with a rally virus, wins 3 out of 4 stages and the whole rally. On SS2 he manages to beat stage record. It's the 5th overal win for Kubica in his rally career.

Results:
5. RONDE CITTA DI SPERLONGA
1. Robert Kubica/Jakub Gerber (PL) Peugeot 207 S2000 26.51,4
2. Graziano De Santis/Massimiliano Luzzi (I) Ford Fiesta R5 +35,0
3. Fabio Gianfico/Liberato Mongillo (I) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4 +48,8
4. Luciano Cobbe/Alberto Bondin (I) Ford Focus RS WRC 08 +57,6
5. Massimiliano Rendina/Mario Pizzuti (I) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4 +1.09,8
6. Amine Belaabdouni/Simone Girolami (MA/I) Peugeot 207 S2000 +1.13,2
7. Luca Corsetti/Valerio Cologgi (I) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX R4 +1.32,1
8. Alessandro Furci/Luca Culasso (I) Peugeot 207 S2000 +1.39,2
9. Antonino Cannavo/Massimo Cambria (I) Fiat Punto Abarth S2000 +1.41,5
10. Alessandro Ciardi/Valerie Ottaviani (I) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +1.46,4

Mirek

15th December 2013, 17:43

Nothing against Robert but I somehow can't see Ronde events as a real rallies. So something in myself rejects calling it an overall rally victory.

Nowi

15th December 2013, 21:46

My photogallery from Prealpi Mastershow 2013 at http://www.rallylife.cz/prealpi-mastershow-2013-nowi :colour:

Mirek

16th December 2013, 08:45

Beautiful!

Tom206wrc

30th December 2013, 10:03

Sad news for CIR 2014: Umberto Scandola leaves Skoda Italy(the team stops in CIR) ;(

Ucci

1st January 2014, 17:45

Sad news for CIR 2014: Umberto Scandola leaves Skoda Italy(the team stops in CIR) ;(

To some point is Škoda's ''goodbye'' (if it is true!!) from CIR totally understandable, as they will have no chance whatsoever against Andreucci and Perico in 208 R5, there are also strong rumors of four DS3 R5 already oredered in Italy (two for D-Max, two for Munaretto)....to insist with N/A Fabia against Andreucci in R5 is waste of money & time...

PLuto

1st January 2014, 17:55

If I am correct, leaving of Skoda from Umberto was confirmed before Christmas.

Tom206wrc

30th January 2014, 04:38

2014 Rally season in Italy starts this week-end with Coppa Liburna Asfalto and Ronde Terra Friuli ;)

Tom206wrc

5th February 2014, 14:55

Latest news: Andrea Nucita(207 S2000)and Rudy Michelini(DS3 R5)in CIR this season ;)

Ucci

9th February 2014, 12:47

Is this just a joke ?? Basso in a Fiesta R5 powered by a Gas?? To be on a safe side: is this even allowed by the FIA rules?? I know that Stohl racing from Austria runs a mitsu evo9 powered by a gas, but is this so simple ?? You turn a car on a gas power and that is all?

http://www.rally.it/anteprima-brc-confe ... ata-a-gas/ (http://www.rally.it/anteprima-brc-conferma-basso-nel-cir-con-la-fiesta-r5-alimentata-a-gas/)

PLuto

9th February 2014, 13:06

Tom206wrc

16th February 2014, 08:56

Rally Circuit International di Franciacorta started yesterday saturday ;)

Overall Felice Re(DS3 WRC) is leading in front of Maurizio Beretta(Fiesta WRC)and his son Alex Re(DS3 WRC)
In S2000 huge fight between Buffoli(Skoda)and Brusa(Peugeot)...
In 2WD Piero Longhi(Clio S1600)leading in front of Luca Tosi(Clio R3)

http://rally.ficr.it/

Ucci

16th February 2014, 21:32

Glorious double victory for family Re at Franciacorta Circuit Rally !! Father Felice in front if his son Alessandro ! All I can say : wish there would be more fathers like Felice and would alow their sons to drive WRC car !! Thank you Felice, a great example for other wealthy fathers.

Tom206wrc

18th February 2014, 11:36

Official !!! Stefano Albertini will drive the factory 208 R2 from Racing Lions in Junior CIR this season :bounce:
http://blog.peugeot.it/2014/02/rally-junior-team/

PLuto

18th February 2014, 12:06

Official !!! Stefano Albertini will drive the factory 208 R2 from Racing Lions in Junior CIR this season :bounce:
http://blog.peugeot.it/2014/02/rally-junior-team/

Stefano is real junior. If I am correct, he is something around 27?

Ucci

18th February 2014, 12:32

Official !!! Stefano Albertini will drive the factory 208 R2 from Racing Lions in Junior CIR this season :bounce:
http://blog.peugeot.it/2014/02/rally-junior-team/
I would not call this as a big success for Stefano....By the way he drove with P207 S2000 whole 2013 season in the International Rally Cup (I.R.C.) in Italy, he was by far the fastest with N/A car...just behind WRC's drivers.
Ok, he has an agreement with Racing Lions for CIR, which is the highest level in Italy, maybe that will lead for 2015 in something more interseting (if Andreucci will quit and Stefano will be his replacement...)...
We will see, for the moment Stefano will strugle ''just'' with FWD.....

PLuto

18th February 2014, 12:56

I also think this is not the best choice for him...

Jarek Z

18th February 2014, 14:49

Yes, it's not a step forward for Albertini for sure. But still it's better than nothing...

RICARDO75

26th February 2014, 12:27

Umberto Scandola on Alex Caffi Memorial

http://www.rallylinkserver.com/ImageFolio4_files/gallery/Rally/motorcircus_2014/foto_magnano/-Scandola.jpg

I thought Scandola lost support of Skoda Italy?

http://www.rallyemotion.it/8678_cir-scandola-ancora-con-skoda-campionato-fermento/

Jarek Z

26th February 2014, 22:57

Thanks for the news Ricardo. So it seems we will see the following drivers in the Italian championship this year:
reigning champion Umberto Scandola - Skoda Fabia S2000 (with support from Skoda Italia),
Paolo Andreucci - Peugeot 208 T16,
Giandomenico Basso - Ford Fiesta R5 LPG-fueled,
Alessandro Perico - Peugeot 208 T16,
Rudy Michelini - Citroen DS3 R5.
Luca Rossetti is working on some program in CIR too, but nothing is confirmed.

Jarek Z

26th February 2014, 23:22

The new Pug is waiting for Ucci :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhbH0EhIMAAfmLe.jpg

Tom206wrc

27th February 2014, 04:11

Nice livery :cool:

WUff1

27th February 2014, 07:18

Umberto Scandola on Alex Caffi Memorial

I thought Scandola lost support of Skoda Italy?

http://www.rallyemotion.it/8678_cir-scandola-ancora-con-skoda-campionato-fermento/

Thank you!

Jarek Z

27th February 2014, 10:26

Nice livery :cool:

Yes, it doesn't look bad :)

http://www.autoklub.pl/media/201402/70063-ucci.jpg

Kalm

28th February 2014, 20:55

Karl Kruuda will do rally “8° Città di Arezzo Ronde Valtiberina” this weekend

giù tutto!

1st March 2014, 10:09

Whose car Kruuda is driving?

Andre Oliveira

1st March 2014, 13:17

Fiesta S2000: http://ewrc-results.com/startlist.php?e ... rezzo-2014 (http://ewrc-results.com/startlist.php?e=16283&t=Ronde-Valtiberina-Città-di-Arezzo-2014)

giù tutto!

1st March 2014, 13:40

Yeah, but what is the team?

Kalm

1st March 2014, 17:41

Yeah, but what is the team?
seems to be Pro Race Rally, plate PX10 AOF https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/1622262_624540804261516_1656032349_n.jpg

Andre Oliveira

1st March 2014, 17:45

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/p180x540/1912036_10152059363023952_1183844081_n.jpg

Kalm

2nd March 2014, 10:36

Kruuda didnt start the rally because problems with the car, engine was overheating

Ucci

7th March 2014, 19:58

Just one week prior Rally il Ciocco, first round for CIR, few pictures from FB and other messages starting to give us a hint, who will be this year ''haunting'' Paolo Andreucci:
Basso :https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=282318971923137&set=a.162217337266635.1073741828.162179863937049&type=1&theater

Rudy Michelini :https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rudy-Michelini-fan-page/175341525831695

Andrea Nucita : http://www.siciliarally.com/wp/?p=2952

Tom206wrc

8th March 2014, 08:21

No news about Luca Rossetti :confused:

Jarek Z

8th March 2014, 14:01

Basso : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=282318971923137&set=a.162217337266635.1073741828.162179863937049&type=1&theater)

More details (including video) about Basso's new project can be found here:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/oto-fiest ... -gaz,53994 (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/oto-fiesta-r5-na-gaz,53994)

HaCo

9th March 2014, 06:38

Looking forward to this championship.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

Jarek Z

9th March 2014, 11:49

No news about Luca Rossetti :confused:

I found this document today. I think it is entry list for this year's Italian Championship. Unfortunately Rossetti is missing:
http://www.rallylink.it/pdf/2014/iscritti_cir.pdf

Tom206wrc

9th March 2014, 12:03

I hope tomorrow monday we'll have the Ciocco entrylist available :confused:

Ucci

11th March 2014, 14:27

Tom206wrc

11th March 2014, 15:18

A great entrylist :bounce:
What a big battle in 2WDs between R3s and R2s to expect :eek:
Nice to see Giacomo Cunial in a 208 R2 after his promising season in the old Citroën C2 R2 Max ;)

tolis

11th March 2014, 15:36

Ucci

12th March 2014, 12:22

Pre-Ciocco Test : Andreucci (listen to the sound of the 208 R5T16 engine!!), Scandola and Perico (can someone give an explanation, why is Perico not using whole road-he is not taking any cuts...):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y52JyJ0D9wg&sns=em

Anyway, the 49-years old Paolo is still in the mood...Great reward for all his previous results and also big responsibility for him with first world official outing with new Peugeot weapon...

Jarek Z

12th March 2014, 14:34

Rally il Ciocco entry list :

http://www.acisportitalia.it/public/201 ... critti.pdf (http://www.acisportitalia.it/public/2014/pdf/Informazioni/CIR/2014_851Rally_Il_Ciocco_e_Valle_del_Serchio//2014_851Rally_Il_Ciocco_e_Valle_del_Serchio_Campio nato%20Italiano%20Rally_Elenco_iscritti.pdf)

I'm surprised that nearly nobody wants to drive Mitusbishi Lancer in Italian Championship. In other countries it is the most popular rally car.
Good to see Andrea Perego back. I haven't heard about him for a long time...

Mirek

12th March 2014, 15:12

I'm surprised that nearly nobody wants to drive Mitusbishi Lancer in Italian Championship. In other countries it is the most popular rally car.

I'm not surprised at all. Mitsubishi are used only where there are fast asphalt or gravel stages. In Italy and France there are almost none in asphalt events. That's nothing new. It has always been like that (with few exceptions).

Jarek Z

13th March 2014, 09:39

I'm surprised that nearly nobody wants to drive Mitusbishi Lancer in Italian Championship. In other countries it is the most popular rally car.

Mitsubishi are used only where there are fast asphalt or gravel stages. In Italy and France there are almost none in asphalt events. That's nothing new. It has always been like that (with few exceptions).

Are you sure? I saw at least 10 Lancers on Mille Miglia 2006 and 3 of them finished the rally in top 5:
http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=617 ... iglia-2006 (http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=617&t=Rally-1000-Miglia-2006)

Mirek

13th March 2014, 09:54

OK, You are right, there were more of them before S2000 came in. 2006 is 8 years a go at the very start of S2000 era...

vino_93

13th March 2014, 21:28

You weren't wrong at all, as in France I can't remember a Lancer doing well on a tarmac event, even before S2000. Of course, it's not about french cup, where some of them can fight for podiums, depending of the drivers.
Only in Le Touquet if I remember correctly, Delanoue finished 5th or something like that. But that's closer to belgian roads than other french roads.

Jarek Z

14th March 2014, 09:42

France is a different story. Group N was never pupular there. But Italy? Some really great drivers used to drive group N cars. Andreucci, Travaglia, Longhi, Aghini, Dallavilla, Cantamessa, Perego, Dati, Fiorio, Cunico, Sottile, Ricci and many others used to drive Mitsubishis and Subarus. Now, all of a sudden, all those cars are gone.

Mirek

14th March 2014, 09:51

It's not all of a sudden. The last time these guys drove gr.N cars was already years a go.

Last full CIR season with Lancer for Travaglia was 2007, for Andreucci, Longhi and Aghini 2008 etc. That's already 6-7 years...

Jarek Z

14th March 2014, 10:22

You are probably right. In recent years I haven't been following this championship as close as I used to.

dimviii

14th March 2014, 11:08

France is a different story. Group N was never pupular there.

+1

Tom206wrc

14th March 2014, 14:13

Pictures of today's scruteneering service in Ciocco ;)
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/inde ... -immagini/ (http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/ciocco-2014-immagini/)

Tom206wrc

15th March 2014, 06:54

SS1 Ciocco on the way NOW !!! :cool:
GO UCCI :bounce:

http://rally.ficr.it/

Fiat-131-Abarth

15th March 2014, 07:06

Scandola 5.6 secs faster than Ucci on first stage.

Fiat-131-Abarth

15th March 2014, 07:07

And Basso over 12 secs faster than Ucci. Go Giandomenico!

Tom206wrc

15th March 2014, 07:08

Ucci :| ;(

Ucci

15th March 2014, 08:21

And Basso over 12 secs faster than Ucci. Go Giandomenico!

I'm disappointed over Ucci's pace....

Fiat-131-Abarth

15th March 2014, 08:42

And Basso over 12 secs faster than Ucci. Go Giandomenico!

I'm disappointed over Ucci's pace....

Maybe it is the pace of the car (although it is a Peugeot ;-))

A FONDO

15th March 2014, 10:04

what an utter disgrace for PSA :bounce:

Jarek Z

15th March 2014, 11:46

What's going on?! A gas car is leading the Italian Championship?! I can't believe my eyes!

Ucci

15th March 2014, 11:55

Ok, we should not be unfair and do not after six stages blame Peugeot for this ''embarrassing disaster''. Although I'm concerned about 208 R5 pace, because reading Andreucci's comments after each stage he is not mentioning any kind of problems-quote ''tutto bene''. Maybe Andreucci is deliberately not pushing the car to its limit, who knows...On the other hand it is clear as a bright day that he would be much faster with old 207 S2000. Just look the times of young Nucita, who by the way already won one stage. Well done!!
Even Rudy Michelini, who is one class slower than Andreucci is one the same pace as Andreucci.
I hope that this R5 project of PSA will not turn into crap.....

Jarek Z

15th March 2014, 12:02

Although I'm concerned about 208 R5 pace, because reading Andreucci's comments after each stage he is not mentioning any kind of problems-quote ''tutto bene''. Maybe Andreucci is deliberately not pushing the car to its limit, who knows...On the other hand it is clear as a bright day that he would be much faster with old 207 S2000.

It's as clear as an azure sky of deepest summer sir! :)

It's hard to believe that Andreucci says "tutto bene" after each stage. Maybe they are testing something and don't push the car settings to the limit?

A FONDO

15th March 2014, 12:05

dimviii

15th March 2014, 12:21

what an utter disgrace for PSA :bounce:

i ve told you that excepth Loebphobia pills,to take Frenchphobia pills too.
try to help yourself.

PLuto

15th March 2014, 13:01

What's going on?! A gas car is leading the Italian Championship?! I can't believe my eyes!

This is really not fair to compare. Nobody of us knows what are the regulations for gas car and how this car is really fast comparing to other normal cars.

Jarek Z

15th March 2014, 14:01

This is really not fair to compare. Nobody of us knows what are the regulations for gas car and how this car is really fast comparing to other normal cars.

It is fair to compare. They are competing in the same championship and the nature of the sport is to compare oneself against other competitors. There is nothing unfair about it.

Jarek Z

15th March 2014, 14:04

In the meantime Nucita wins SS7. Andreucci and his 208 R5 still down in the 4th position.

Mirek

15th March 2014, 14:10

It is fair to compare. They are competing in the same championship and the nature of the sport is to compare oneself against other competitors. There is nothing unfair about it.

That's twisted logic. It's motorsport and technical rules are fundamental part of it. Allowing one different car than others under rules which were somehow set without knowing how fast the car actually will be is a dangerous thing which always brings plenty of questions. It is definitely more fair to keep rules about which you know they are well balanced.

stefanvv

15th March 2014, 15:30

Andreucci times are improving from the morning, looks like he has done some changes.

PLuto

15th March 2014, 15:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRAFS1VVzPg

WUff1

15th March 2014, 15:50

It seems there is still hard work to do with 208 R5 ...

Jarek Z

15th March 2014, 17:14

That's twisted logic. It's motorsport and technical rules are fundamental part of it. Allowing one different car than others under rules which were somehow set without knowing how fast the car actually will be is a dangerous thing which always brings plenty of questions. It is definitely more fair to keep rules about which you know they are well balanced.

If the rules are wrong, complain to the Italian federation :)

PLuto

15th March 2014, 18:04

If the rules are wrong, complain to the Italian federation :)

Why? They can do what they want. But if you want to compare, you must compare comparatable...

dimviii

15th March 2014, 18:19

A FONDO

15th March 2014, 18:38

is it so difficult? see the difference between Scandola and Basso with RRC and S2000 from before.

PLuto

15th March 2014, 18:42

is it so difficult? see the difference between Scandola and Basso with RRC and S2000 from before.

It should be difficult. We dont know how much is Giando pushing...

dimviii

15th March 2014, 18:48

is it so difficult? see the difference between Scandola and Basso with RRC and S2000 from before.
its not so easy.You have to know much more info to extract safe conclusions.Some guys running on fia tyres to used for San Remo(Michelini),some others have broken shafts,flat tyres(Scandola at stage 11 ie)different tyres,and an unknown rally(for me at least) about if favours s2000 cars or r5 cars.
Except that Basso now has a good margin to control.

look the difference between Basso and Ucci
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHQs4wNWYdc#t=31

PLuto

15th March 2014, 18:51

Finally, first stage win for T16 :)

bluuford

15th March 2014, 21:32

Well another reason is that Ucci should look sooner or later into the passport ;-) No offence, but nearly 50 years old human connot have same reactons and reflecses as persons between 15-40. To me he is mysterious guy anyway... some people have youger grandfathers than him :-) Respect!

evoIX

16th March 2014, 09:26

Bassooo....go..go!

WUff1

16th March 2014, 09:30

Andreucci seems to get used to his new car now, with two more stage wins today (out of 3) - or his team found the optimal settings of the car.

evoIX

16th March 2014, 10:11

Andreucci seems to get used to his new car now, with two more stage wins today (out of 3) - or his team found the optimal settings of the car.
Basso had before him after the first day almost one minute advantage, so today he does not need to drive on a limit. ;)

Mirek

16th March 2014, 10:30

Nucita retired...

PLuto

16th March 2014, 10:54

Nucita retired...

If I understand well, his car caught fire.

Ucci

16th March 2014, 11:50

Nucita had some electrical issues, the inside of the car start to overheat and the fire extinguisher was put in operation...Nucita had a slight poisoning due to smoke, but nothing seriously....Anyway, he is the biggest positive surprise of this rally!! Young guy has a bright future in front of him. Do not forget-he was driving a private 207 S2000.
Basso- very routinely, without any problem whatsoever-victory with a huge margin, could be even bigger if he would push more on the second day. Well done Fiesta R5 & the team, which prepared gas powered car.
Scandola-second place, but he won just one stage, he had no chance against Basso.
Paolo Andreucci-definitely one of the lowest points in his career. On his home rally we honestly all expected victory and nothing else, but this result is showing two things: or Andreucci is to old or P208 R5 is a failed project. Don't be tempted by today's stages victories-Basso was on a ''cruising mode''.

PLuto

16th March 2014, 12:47

Like I told before, Basso with CNG car is not comparable thing as we dont know rules for his car. But Andreucci was slower than Scandola, which is comparable...

Mirek

16th March 2014, 16:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWJbHwHz6Hg

OldF

16th March 2014, 20:50

Below is a comparison a Finnish motorsport magazine made 6 years ago (Vauhdin Maailma 3/2008) between a CNG Evo (Manfred Stohl) and a petrol Evo, both with a 32 mm restrictor. The petrol had a peak torque of 566 Nm @ 3290 rpm compared to CNG Evo’s 532 Nm @ 3440 rpm (94%). Peak power for petrol Evo was 276 PS @ 3650 rpm compared to CNG’s 263 PS @ 3520 (95,5%). Both was measured in the same dyno.

The CNG evo has two 90 litre tanks, one behind the seats and another one in the trunk. I don’t know how big the Evo’s fuel tank is but calculating with 70 litre and about 0,75 kg/litre density for petrol would give a result for 52,5 kg for a full tank. The CNG’s density is about 0,42 kg/litre and the weight of 180 litre would be 75,6 kg.

The weight of the cars was not mention but they said that the CNG evo is “few tens of kg” heavier than the petrol evo. Jani Paasonen who tested the CNG evo said that on lower revs there are less torque but the curve increase rapidly and on higher revs the power & torque difference is not noticeable when driving. The response to the throttle have a little delay. Also the torque band is narrower.

CNG dyno chart (Note: Not an error, the charts in the magazine was mixed, N4->CNG and CNG->N4):
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Mitsu_Evo9_CNG_Dyno1_zps8aa5213e.jpg

Petrol dyno chart:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Mitsu_Evo9_grpN_Dyno-1_zps3780d166.jpg

Gas tank behind the seats:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/CNGtankbehindseats_zpscc1e2c4d.jpg

Gas tank in the trunk:
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/CNGtankintrunk_zps7518ee0e.jpg

dimviii

16th March 2014, 21:17

thanks Old F ,nice post.

Mirek

16th March 2014, 21:24

Yes, very informative. So I probably remember that wrong with the restrictor (but I'm sure the CNG car here had bigger one than petrol ones).

EDIT: According to MikeyD in R5 thread Basso's car has 32 mm restrictor. In videos it actually looks less powerful than the other Fiesta R5 so it might well be true. The worse news for Peugeot then and hat off for Basso.

Jarek Z

16th March 2014, 21:42

Am I now allowed to compare the stage times? :D

OldF

16th March 2014, 21:45

Few comments from Jari Ketomaa when ”Vauhdin Maailma” (1/2007) compared Subaru with Mitsu (Ketomaa has been driving with both cars).

“The advantage of the Mitsu is it’s engine. Up to about 150 km/h they are quite even but after that the Mitsu has an advantage”.

“The biggest advantage for the Subaru is it’s durability and on slow stages. The difference in the suspension and transmission make the Impreza faster on twisty roads.”

“The Subaru has a better weight distribution.” 1340 – 1350 kg in FRC, weight distribution with crew f/r = 57% / 43%. Ketomaa’s Mitsu 1360kg and weight distribution with the crew 62% / 38%.

“On slower roads the Mitsu is more challenging. It’s like a FWD car. It has to been throw into a turn preferably with higher speed than needed to get it to turn. The Subaru again when lifting the throttle slides which can then be controlled with the throttle.”

OldF

16th March 2014, 21:48

thanks Old F ,nice post.

Thanks guys. How many beers? 6 or maybe 12. :D

PS I can wait until next Friday. ;)

Jarek Z

16th March 2014, 22:12

6 is a minimum! ;) Thanks for this post. A great source of information!

And... it's great to see Basso winning again! :)

http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/images/phocagallery/0_diretteweb_2014/ciocco/domenica_1/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_01_04_basso.jpg

dimviii

16th March 2014, 22:42

Am I now allowed to compare the stage times? :D

be calm,not yet.Lets see some more rallies,and let 208 evolute a little bit. ;)

@OldF 12 beers from me.

Ucci

17th March 2014, 10:15

Am I now allowed to compare the stage times? :D

be calm,not yet.Lets see some more rallies,and let 208 evolute a little bit. ;)

@OldF 12 beers from me.
It is a big question how will be this possible if any technical upgrade is ''frozen''....at least according to FIA rules...

Mirek

17th March 2014, 10:23

It's not "any" technical upgrade.

dimviii

17th March 2014, 10:46

It is a big question how will be this possible if any technical upgrade is ''frozen''....at least according to FIA rules...

it is possible through fine tuning setup/mapping etc from existing parts.Frozen technical upgrade will be a problem,if they find something wrong that must be changed.Something like this is not known yet.
208 first rally wasn t so bad.Lets dont forget first s2000 cars rallies when were loosing from n4 cars.

Rally Power

17th March 2014, 11:51

Basso Fiesta uses LPG (liquid petroleum gas), mainly a mix of propane and butane. Other cars you’ve been talking about uses CNG (compressed natural gas), essentially methane. LPG (GPL in Italy) has higher energy value than CNG and requires less space for storage.

Seeing the BRC presentation pictures and info, it seems that the only modification from a normal Fiesta R5 is the GPL kit (gas injection system, fuel lines and wheel tank), like in any conversed Petrol/GPL road car (I used to drive one), even if they’re now using LDI technology that allows to inject liquid gas into the chamber (more efficient than previous gaseous injection).

Like many of you, I also think that main reason for Basso win was his driving skill, but we can always speculate that, depending on the propane/butane proportion, GPL can get higher octane rating than petrol.

http://www.rally.it/dai-gas-alla-tua-passione/
http://rally.brc.it/

Mirek

17th March 2014, 11:55

That's interesting, thanks. I don't remember other case of using LPG in rallying.

Mirek

17th March 2014, 14:53

Great video of Rally il Ciocco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ydChCSL3Mk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JydChCSL3Mk)

Jarek Z

17th March 2014, 15:59

That's interesting, thanks. I don't remember other case of using LPG in rallying.

Were there many other "gas projects" in rallying? I remember Manfred Stohl was competing with CNG-Mitsubishi in Austrian championship, but his results were bad, weren't they?

Mirek

17th March 2014, 16:07

There were plenty of CNG powered cars in Austria and they were quite successful. Stohl even won several events overall.

Some examples...
Evo IX, Impreza, 207 S2000 of Stohl Racing
Several Golf IV Kit Cars of Hofbauer Racing

Ex-Stohl CNG Lancer was also used here in CZ Sprints by Semerád Racing (Pech and later Enge drove it). Enge was quite successful with it.

Barreis

20th March 2014, 21:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqPDe3NU5c

tolis

22nd March 2014, 16:58

Anyone know the reason why No17 is not used in italian rallies?

pino

24th March 2014, 06:56

Anyone know the reason why No17 is not used in italian rallies?

Most Italians thinks, is a number which brings bad luck ;)

Tom206wrc

25th March 2014, 03:46

There are rumours of presence of Bryan Bouffier and Luca Rossetti in Sanremo, next round of CIR :confused:

WUff1

25th March 2014, 05:26

There are rumours of presence of Bryan Bouffier and Luca Rossetti in Sanremo, next round of CIR :confused:

Maybe testing Citroen R5?

Ucci

27th March 2014, 07:52

Very interesting entry list for 38. Rally Mille Miglia (valid for Campionato Italiano Rally WRC-former TRA):
http://www.rally1000miglia.it/pdf/elenco_iscritti.pdf

Some drivers will be for the first time in a WRC car (Bianco, Signor) and Pedersoli is coming back!

liposh

27th March 2014, 09:29

Could somebody from Italy explain to me why there are two such championships alongside in Italy? There is Italian IRC and this new C.I.WRC championship. Where are pros and cons of these two championships in comparison? Which one is better? To be honest I am little bit lost :-)

Mirek

27th March 2014, 09:45

Ucci

27th March 2014, 13:38

There used to be only one championship in Italy - Campionato Italiano Rally (C.I.R.). Now Tropheo Rally Asfalto (T.R.A.) was re-branded to championship so they have two. All the rest is trophies and cups (dozens). Czech republic has 6x less citizen and maybe 10x less rally events despite that we (Czechs) have 2 championships as well and in 2007 we had even 3. Basically it's same like here. The intenational championship has better driver quality but the national one has WRC, national or old cars allowed. The Italian IRC is just a cup of minor importance.

I don't count any historic events...

I wouldn't consider Italian IRC so unimportant-main ''attraction'' are quite high money incentives, drivers like Longhi, Sossela, F.Re, Corrado Fontana, Albertini, Crungola, Michelini (and many more...) were or are still competing in this series...and yes, most important-WRC, S1600, kit-car's, A8...everything is permitted...

Mirek

27th March 2014, 13:44

By minor I meant that it's not a championship. It doesn't give the winner a champion title.

Ucci

30th March 2014, 15:49

Mille Miglia has been finished, the former winner of this series Luca Pedersoli won it by a very small margin (less than 3 seconds) in front of Marco Signor. I'm a bit disappointed over Sossella pace, with his huge WRC experience I thought he will be in a fight for victory. Last year champoin P.Porro (first time in C4 WRC) retired. Again very good result of a young S.Albertini-he finished on the 9th position with a ''tinny'' P208 R2.

Tom206wrc

30th March 2014, 17:04

Tomorrow monday for the entrylist of Rally Sanremo :confused:

nafpaktos

30th March 2014, 22:28

Is there any web site where we can follow the italian championsips.english of course.
.

Tom206wrc

31st March 2014, 03:20

Entrylist Sanremo available !!! ;)

Tom206wrc

31st March 2014, 03:21

Is there any web site where we can follow the italian championsips.english of course.
.

Sorry, none in english, but my favourite is http://www.rallylink.it/home_it.htm
You can ask questions in English on their forum ;)

pino

31st March 2014, 06:26

http://www.acisanremo.it/rallysanremo/documenti/ELENCO%20ISCRITTI%20%20CIR%20A%20CIR%20B%20-%20definitivo.pdf

Sanremo entry list ;)

vino_93

31st March 2014, 10:15

nice to see Bouffier here !

Tom206wrc

3rd April 2014, 03:31

http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/sanremo-2014 :cool:

dimviii

3rd April 2014, 12:01

Michelinis ds3 r5 livery.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/q84/s720x720/10154037_10202814337071492_1118421856_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/q77/s720x720/1237590_10152440885232741_1328265949_n.jpg

Mirek

3rd April 2014, 12:45

For me the R5 looks nicer than WRC. I don't like the big wing on DS3 and also the fenders are nicer.

A FONDO

3rd April 2014, 13:30

Buf on the shakedown, I don't know if the car will be ready for the race?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10153132_675365225853701_778185229_n.jpg

liposh

3rd April 2014, 14:02

The DS3 R5 has really big "mouth". it reminds me a whale shark a little bit :-D

Tom206wrc

3rd April 2014, 14:33

It's over for Bouffier ;(

dimviii

3rd April 2014, 15:05

https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/p180x540/1913227_607153536036832_1411372597_o.jpg

mousti

3rd April 2014, 17:18

Seems heavily damaged :s. I presume he was invited to drive there?

Mirek

3rd April 2014, 17:43

It's over for Bouffier ;(

Pity. It's kinda stupid to crash the car on shakedown but he is neither first nor the last who did it...

gabryere

3rd April 2014, 19:08

Bouffier very sad for the crash, race finished https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/374548_10152124874848952_398613352_n.jpg

dimviii

3rd April 2014, 20:37

owner of that 207 said that they are trying to fix it
http://www.acisportitalia.it/CIR/notizia/ita/4522?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

finally a video fron shakedown wih the new ds3 r5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tghTqgTGKCg

http://www.acisportitalia.it/public/2014%2Fimg%2FCIR%2FRallye_Sanremo%2Fmichelini-angilleta_shakedown_2.jpg

dimviii

3rd April 2014, 20:54

lets see if they manage to repair it.Damage is serious
http://www.rally.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/breen.jpg

Bartek

3rd April 2014, 20:57

Confirmed - Bryan out

dimviii

3rd April 2014, 21:04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FD3-eANxAw#t=19

Tom206wrc

4th April 2014, 01:02

Confirmed - Bryan out

Not confirmed yet on Claudio's live page of Rallylink...it's written working still continues ;)

A FONDO

4th April 2014, 08:45

where will be able to follow the results?

dimviii

4th April 2014, 08:48

http://rally.ficr.it/tab_schedule.asp?p_Anno=2014&p_Codice=90&p_Manifestazione=3

Bartek

4th April 2014, 09:18

Not confirmed yet on Claudio's live page of Rallylink...it's written working still continues ;)

Sorry, I said this too fast but now it's confirmed, from what I heard, they left service park. It's too bad that Bryan will not start

Tom206wrc

4th April 2014, 15:04

Andreucci best time overall on the 17km SS1 Sanremo !!! :)

gabryere

4th April 2014, 15:07

is really a nice car http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/images/phocagallery/0_diretteweb_2014/sanremo/venerdi_1/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_19.jpg

gabryere

4th April 2014, 15:11

for the moment Andreucci wins the first PS

A FONDO

4th April 2014, 16:20

this rally is also over already....

gabryere

4th April 2014, 16:23

Problem for Andreucci..Penalty 1'20.0, and 2'07.8 By Basso

A FONDO

4th April 2014, 17:29

what is the problem?

Ucci

4th April 2014, 18:03

According to Italian rally forum technical troubles (engine overheating) ended Andreucci's participation....this is his first retirement due to technical troubles after 55 races....
It seems that this year championship crown will be a ''walk in the park'' for Basso.
After 4th stage Basso already with 15 sec lead in front of Scandola. Michelini very conservative....The achieved times of Albertini-crazy !!

Filip

5th April 2014, 06:39

Michelini lost a lot of time on the last stage of the day because his gearshift lever broke.

Ucci

5th April 2014, 14:55

Basso-game over :

https://fbcdn-photos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-0/10014700_645712838799555_204653101_n.jpg

dimviii

5th April 2014, 15:00

so everything open in cir for Ucci?

Ucci

5th April 2014, 15:45

so everything open in cir for Ucci?

well, let say other way around-it is not all lost for Ucci. This Basso's retirement gives Ucci still possibility to fight for championship. But I'm very worried over Ucci's speed....that Fiesta looks unbeatable....

Jarek Z

5th April 2014, 18:43

Scandola wins Rally Sanremo easily, second is Nucita and third Perego. Michelini and his Citroen R5 only 6th, behind Peugeot 208 R2 and Renault Clio R3. Not a very interesting rally.

Final calssification:
http://rally.ficr.it/body_stagetimes_finale.asp?p_Anno=2014&p_Codice=90&p_Manifestazione=3&p_Gara=1&p_ProvaSpeciale=12&p_Qualificatore=&p_Raggruppamento=ALL&p_Classificazione=1&p_Gruppo=ALL&p_Classe=ALL

JTGANG

8th April 2014, 15:12

Does anybody know what happened to Rossetti ??? Assume he had also problems with the car prior of retiring ???

focus206

8th April 2014, 15:38

Does anybody know what happened to Rossetti ??? Assume he had also problems with the car prior of retiring ???
I've read exhaust problems...

Ucci

10th April 2014, 15:22

Strange situation in an Italian championship (CIR)-after two races Andrea Perego with mitsu evoX on the second place !!

http://www.rallylink.it/pdf/classifiche/2014/cir_conduttori.pdf

Funny, who would predict something like that.....

Tom206wrc

11th April 2014, 15:01

Rally Elba this week-end with some WRCs, S2000,...and Alessandro Re in Citroën DS3 RRC ;)

Ucci

22nd April 2014, 19:43

If this is true, then Simone I wish you luck :

https://twitter.com/siciliarally/status/458557733525278720/photo/1

Cempedelli with Fiesta R5 on the upcoming Targa.....

focus206

22nd April 2014, 22:59

If this is true, then Simone I wish you luck :

https://twitter.com/siciliarally/status/458557733525278720/photo/1

Cempedelli with Fiesta R5 on the upcoming Targa.....

at Targa Florio + all the remaining rounds of the Italian championship, I read.

Tom206wrc

23rd April 2014, 13:19

Rudy Michelini this week-end at the Rally della Valdinievolle with the DS3 R5 ;)

Andre Oliveira

27th April 2014, 15:11

Rally della Valdineivole

Ciava wins, 2.5 ahead Michelini : http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=17257&t=Rally-della-Valdineivole-2014

Ucci

6th May 2014, 20:08

Very ''rich'' entry list for the Rally Internazionale del Taro, second round of I.R.C:

http://www.scuderiasanmichele.com/pdf_taro/elencoiscritti.pdf

I hope for more success for F.Re...

Tom206wrc

7th May 2014, 05:30

Entrylist Rally Targa Florio available ;)
Return of Andrea Crugnola in CIR for the occasion :)

Ucci

9th May 2014, 14:50

Very intensive fight at Targa Florio between Andreucci (thanks god he is showing some potential of P208R5) and Basso. After 5.stage just 7 seconds between them. Others are second league.....

HaCo

9th May 2014, 19:32

Very nice indeed, pitty rest is quite far behind.

Ucci

9th May 2014, 22:35

After first day on Siclily, Andreucci finaly got few more seconds against G.Basso, but still nothing decisive....Others are almost one minute behind, but we might see an outraged fight for third finnal position between Scandola, Cempedelli (quite a surprise-first time in R5, with new co-driver), Perico and Nucita.
Albertini again the fastest in R2.....

Ucci

9th May 2014, 22:45

Nucita with a lot of luck-look at 2:06 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu8B_wgADU8

P208R5 definitely wins on the sound over Fiesta R5....

Mirek

9th May 2014, 23:22

Very nice video. Basso's LPG car seems to be down on torque to me. Same impression like from previous events.

HaCo

10th May 2014, 09:15

Waiting for the first times to arrive. According to rallylink.it Ucci drove a 8.45.5 last year in his S2000.

HaCo

10th May 2014, 09:18

Ucci drove an 8'39.2 with the R5 :-)

Ucci

10th May 2014, 10:47

After today's second stage Andreucci extended his lead towards Basso to 31 seconds.....now he can breathe easier.

tommeke_B

10th May 2014, 12:07

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T44ht_fDJ1o&app=desktop Great video from Peugeot. The moment at 15s, just great! :)

nafpaktos

10th May 2014, 13:34

I think andreucci finally found it.so i believe it will be difficult for his opponents to catch him in the future.the only problem for him is the potential reliability problems.i also believe that here stops the discussion about whether basso's (lpg)car have an advantage over the the other gasoline-cars.

Ucci

10th May 2014, 17:14

First I agree 100% with nafpaktos about advantage/disadvantage over Basso's car towards other R5 cars. Hope this thread will not turn in convincing each other about technical stuff which nobody doesn't have a clue....I'm more than sure that Basso's team manager, the sponsor and Basso himself know or knew in the past, that they are not handicapped by the LPG. Ok, enaugh of technic...
To the final results: Andreucci (finally!!!) won, this time in a great way, his victory was never questioned. Those two past days he was the master on the Sicily. Now he is back in the game for the championship fight. Great, I must admit.
Basso : still great result, he was beaten just by Ucci, he is a world apart faster than others. So, nothing lost for the moment (he has one victory this year); maybe he wasn't in a right mood this weekend. The future is still looking bright for him.
Nucita : the guy is a (positive) surprise from race to race. Already after third race this season he is discovery of the year. He fought until last meters with last year champion Scandola-and he managed to reach third position. With clearly less 4WD experience and also comparing works Fabia with his private 207...it is an illusion.
Scandola : will not be happy today and also upcoming days. His championship leadership is slipping away from his hands, he will be forced to drive 110% maximum on the gravel events to compensate the gap against R5 cars and specially to Nucita (I do not count Nucita to be so fast on gravel....maybe I'm wrong, who knows...).
Cempedelli: very solid performance by young driver, he was in the contact with Nucita, Perico (who retired again, sorry) and Scandola, unfortunately he got two minutes penalties due to late service exit. I'm looking forward for his future starts with Fiesta R5.
Albertini : almost won 2Wd category, but the fastest in R2 class.
This is it from Sicily this year.

dimviii

11th May 2014, 23:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fHqXuIyQZvA

Tom206wrc

6th June 2014, 16:58

SS2 Rally Sardegna CIR is scheduled for 17.46 just after the WRC crews(SS6 WRC = SS2 CIR) ;)

Tom206wrc

6th June 2014, 22:46

TOTALLY GUTTED !!!! Andreucci and Basso can't run properly because of DUST made by Scandola's Skoda !!!! Now Umberto has 35" advantage on Ucci and 1' over Giando... :mad:

Mirek

6th June 2014, 23:13

Yeah, zee ebil Škoda dust generator :D

Ucci

6th June 2014, 23:13

TOTALLY GUTTED !!!! Andreucci and Basso can't run properly because of DUST made by Scandola's Skoda !!!! Now Umberto has 35" advantage on Ucci and 1' over Giando... :mad:

Indeed Tom, I was reading comments on italian web-site and all except Umby Scandola are complaining over big ''walls'' of dust. Even two minutes delay brings nothing to the visibility....Obviously the anger for all hindered cres must huge as the legs behind U.Scandola are not normal....

nafpaktos

7th June 2014, 13:49

Can somebody explain to me why scandola didn't have problem with dust.

dimviii

7th June 2014, 14:35

Basso won,Ucci and Scandola probably with problems 3 minutes later at stage

dimviii

7th June 2014, 14:44

in an Italian forum they said that Ucci had temperature problems,and Basso brake problems. Any confirmation?

dimviii

7th June 2014, 14:52

google translate from rallylink.it

Umberto Scandola: no front bumper. We drilled, changed the tire but after it broke the front differential. 44.19.6

Giandomenico Basso: Try hard, I drove badly, I had no brakes, I had no side really hard, I'm glad it's over. I kept asking what was missing, because I was afraid for shots taken. I could not do traietorie 41.27.2

Paolo Andreucci: sideways into the gutter I took a stone cutting. After the governavo not more. It did not go over the engine after the ford. Temperature problems 44.27.2

Tom206wrc

7th June 2014, 17:08

Problem for Ucci was caused by the stone or something totally different(mechanical problem) :confused:

Ucci

7th June 2014, 17:23

Can somebody explain to me why scandola didn't have problem with dust.

As the leader in the championship he had the privilege to start the first...

Ucci

7th June 2014, 17:34

I was reading the interviews on the Italian forum after the finish of the longest stage Monte Lerno(and the only today's stage for CIR), almost a comedy.....all frontrunners had their moments; or flat tyres, engine problems, brake problems (Cempedelli even crashed due to this problem..). The luckiest was Basso and finally won. Andreucci just 2sec in front of Albertini....This rally clearly did not show who is the fastest (especially with yesterday fog experience) but who is the luckiest guy....Rally to forget...

nafpaktos

7th June 2014, 20:46

Italian rally championship classification?i use this site for stage times,
http://rally.ficr.it but i cannot find the championship classification.

Ucci

7th June 2014, 20:57

Italian rally championship classification?i use this site for stage times,
http://rally.ficr.it but i cannot find the championship classification.

The championship classification after Sardina looks like this:
- Scandola 47
- Basso 42
- Andreucci 35

Tom206wrc

8th June 2014, 07:29

Ucci will have his revenge in San Martino next month ;)

Ucci

8th June 2014, 15:17

Ucci will have his revenge in San Martino next month ;)

If there will be more space between crews, than we can expect revenge...otherwise if (again) driving in the clouds of dust behind Scandola and Basso, we can just wait for a possible retirement of those two drivers....I really can not understand organisators to make such stupid mistake and let crews to start in one minute intervals on the dusty, dry stages....also very dangerous.

Ucci

14th June 2014, 08:46

HaCo

14th June 2014, 09:16

What a mess on the first stage at Rally Prealpi Orobiche (I.R.C), during the stage heavy storm ''caught'' WRC drivers on slicks, but the stage was just 1,95 km long, so it needed to be calm and just survive...but the championship leader Corrado Fontana made a huge mistake, look on the video:
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/media-gallery/218-prealpi-orobiche-irc-2014-ps1-wrc?category_id=60

Quite an impact. Lot of water on that spot if you see the cars later. Was it old, or the young Fontana that crashed?

For the rest: nice footage, nice cars and die-hard spectators! :-)

Wim_Impreza

14th June 2014, 12:46

It was Corrado Fontana who crashed with sponsoring of his father on the car. Luigi Fontana also retired in the same rally...

Classification after SS5:
1. #1 Alessandro Perico/Mauro Turati (Ford Fiesta RS WRC) 31'17"0
2. #4 Felice Re/Mara Bariani (Citroën DS3 WRC) +52"9
3. #11 Davide Pighi/Marco Zortea (Peugeot 207 S2000) +1'34"5
4. #32 Roberto Vescovi/Giancarla Guzzi (Renault Clio R3) +1'54"4
5. #12 Stefano Capelli/Marco Bergonzi (Peugeot 207 2000) +1'54"7
6. #8 Alessandro Re/Giulio Turatti (Citroën DS3 RRC) +1'59"1
7. #24 Andrea dal Ponte/Enrico Tessaro (Renault Clio S1600) +2'03"6
8. #2 Matteo Gamba/Guido d'Amore (Citroën C4 WRC) +2'13"0
9. #10 Giuseppe Robert Bevacqua/Nicola Berutti (Peugeot 207 S2000) +2'27"2
10. #9 Riccardo Gatti/Moreno Toni (Peugeot 207 S2000) +2'30"1

timlord22

14th June 2014, 16:37

Another angle of the crash(Fontana): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjrwnzajiU&feature=youtu.be

Ucci

14th June 2014, 18:06

As expected dominance of Alessandro Perico, leading already more than minute in front of Felice Re. Observe on the video how attractive are Perico and Matteo Gamba (Gamba unfortunately retired due to driveshaft problems...):

http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/media-gallery/221-prealpi-orobiche-2014-irc-dopo-ps5?category_id=60
Gentelman drivers are ofcourse no threat to CIR runner-up Perico....

And also onboard of Corrado's ''stupidity'':
http://fontana.glmediapro.tv/

Tom206wrc

29th June 2014, 13:04

What entrylist to expect on Rally San Marino(CIR)next week :confused:

Tom206wrc

1st July 2014, 14:40

Only 31 entries for San Marino :(

Tom206wrc

4th July 2014, 19:35

Ucci leading in front of Scandola and Basso after two stages Rally San Marino ;)
Travaglia 5th overall leading gravel championship(TRT)
http://rally.ficr.it/

Mirek

4th July 2014, 19:39

But everybody behind top 3 is more than 1:15 behind after just two stages (although long ones)!

HaCo

4th July 2014, 21:22

Ucci lost 8secs on 5km stage. Start position strategy?

mousti

4th July 2014, 21:59

Live Streaming

http://www.acisportitalia.it/cir/live-streaming

Jeppe

5th July 2014, 10:25

Ucci lost 8secs on 5km stage. Start position strategy?

I don´t think so. SS 3/4 was all tarmac and that might be a reason..?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJDhsTWFDJI&feature=youtu.be

dimviii

5th July 2014, 13:54

wow Campedelli!!!

dimviii

5th July 2014, 15:14

now Ucci 1,7 sec from leader Scandola.Campedelli still faster at stages.

Mirek

5th July 2014, 16:15

Fantastic battle for the victory!

tommeke_B

5th July 2014, 16:48

http://www.rally.it/san-marino-scandola-escluso-dalla-gara-per-eventuali-pneumatici-irregolari-ecco-il-comunicato-da-acisportitalia/

WTF? Anyone who can explain this properly?

Mirek

5th July 2014, 16:51

dimviii

5th July 2014, 17:43

Ucci 1,3 as leader now,and 1 stage remaining.

focus206

5th July 2014, 17:43

dimviii

5th July 2014, 18:23

Ucci won.

Ucci

5th July 2014, 23:22

To me it looks like Racing Lions made an appeal against Škoda because Scandola used completely worn tyres for the asphalt stages. The stewards decided to exclude Scandola for not having min. 1,6 mm thread on tyres.

In my opinion this is completely idiotic decision. Half of the crews in WRC events would be disqualified because of that...

The rules are the same for everyone.
This is no WRC event, so no excuse that the tyres were worn due to ''monster'' stage lenght 40,50 km..
We are speaking over Škoda Italy, professional team, not some privat driver.
If Scandola had advantage with this on tarmac, the decision is more than fair.
But, if they have made an appeal, they are not gulity until the ACI will make a decission. We will wait.

Mirek

5th July 2014, 23:33

The rules are the same for everyone.
This is no WRC event, so no excuse that the tyres were worn due to ''monster'' stage lenght 40,50 km..
We are speaking over Škoda Italy, professional team, not some privat driver.
If Scandola had advantage with this on tarmac, the decision is more than fair.
But, if they have made an appeal, they are not gulity until the ACI will make a decission. We will wait.

Actually You are wrong. The rules in this case are not same for everybody. Theoretically they are but practically they are not. The problem is that this sentence is in the rulebooks only because of legality on road sections. There is no other reason for that. I don't recall a single case this rule would be applied before although it has been definitely breached by thousands of drivers and I'm pretty sure that Ucci or Racing Lions were many times among them in the past as well. Do You remember Rally Cyprus 2008 when the very same stuff was glorified as a brilliant tactics used by Loeb?

I don't call it idiotic because my bias towards Škoda. I don't care which team it was. I just don't like when a team picks some rule which is well known to be ignored and forgotten to remove their opposition. But OK, technically they are right. However I'm sure this story will only bring a bad blood for the future because this rule can be applied to remove anyone from the results, hell sometimes even half of the competitive field.

mousti

6th July 2014, 01:43

Totally agree with Mirek, everywhere there is always some situations where sometimes they "bend the rules". Just bad sportmanship..

Ucci

6th July 2014, 09:03

Guys, don't mix ''apples with pears''; I deliberately wrote : do not list cases from WRC events-if you drive let say two stages in lenght more than 60-70 km, than it can happen that the crew will drive on liassion without ''rubber''. Totally understandable and can be ignored (as it is!!).
But on a short event like San Marino-if all other crews had enough profiled tyres and Scandola not and if he drove with this tyres on tarmac special (remember-3th and 4th stages were tarmac stages!) and if Umberto held with this act advantage (it must be proven; until than he is unguilty), than he should be disqualified. Also a reminder to the rest!
Mirek-please never mention following (quote): 'it has been definitely breached by thousands of drivers and I'm pretty sure that Ucci or Racing Lions were many times among them in the past as well ''-if you do not have a proof of this act or similar thing, shout up and do not mention it. What I hate are negative rumors that somebody cheated in the past. Give a proof (photo, camera shot...) or forget it.

Mirek

6th July 2014, 11:35

Mirek-please never mention following (quote): 'it has been definitely breached by thousands of drivers and I'm pretty sure that Ucci or Racing Lions were many times among them in the past as well ''-if you do not have a proof of this act or similar thing, shout up and do not mention it. What I hate are negative rumors that somebody cheated in the past. Give a proof (photo, camera shot...) or forget it.

In every rally, be it WRC or 70 km long rallysprint, there are many crews on completely worn tyres. Always. Most of them simply because they don't have money for new tyres. According to the rules all shall be disqualified. I don't speak specifically about deliberate cheating. Most of cases when this rule is breached is not intentional but it's still a violation of that rule. Rules don't make a difference if it was intentional violation or not. Do You finally know what I mean?

Even what You say is illogical. First You say that rules are same for everybody and than You say that this is no WRC event with long stages. That's pure contradiction. If the rule is same for everybody than everybody must be punished for violation of that rule. The simple fact is that this rule is ignored for good reason - as it is in 99% violated without intention of cheating. The rule exists solely because of road sections and I believe that in the past it was applied only if traffic police complained.

Co-driven

6th July 2014, 22:35

This year on Rally TransItapúa, firrst round of the Codasur Championship in Paraguay, Gustavo Saba and Marcos Miltos were disqualified. The first two stages of the rally were on tarmac (with gravel tyres) and they deliberately worn the tyres out, to make them close to a slick tyre and have some advantage. After each stage the officials inspected each drivers tyres and that's why they realized that noth Saba and Miltos had worn tyres.

Ucci

6th July 2014, 23:23

Even what You say is illogical. First You say that rules are same for everybody and than You say that this is no WRC event with long stages. That's pure contradiction. If the rule is same for everybody than everybody must be punished for violation of that rule. The simple fact is that this rule is ignored for good reason - as it is in 99% violated without intention of cheating. The rule exists solely because of road sections and I believe that in the past it was applied only if traffic police complained.

Yes, yes Mirek : all other drivers drove tarmac stage with gravel tyres with enough profile (you could not worn out them on so short gravel stages), just Umberto was there with very worn tyres, almost slicks ! You do not need to be a scientist to see that something was wrong. I do not say Umby& team were cheating-it must be proven ! But the fact is-tyres were totaly worn out (there is a nice photo on rallylink.it). Until Alpi Orientali at the end of August the court has to make a decission. I belive in their fair decission, until then I wish to Umby, Ucci, Basso & Co a pleasant holidays.
P.S. nobody mentioned Cempedelli-he was very very fast on the second day. Nice...

Mirek

7th July 2014, 00:04

Yes, yes Mirek : all other drivers drove tarmac stage with gravel tyres with enough profile (you could not worn out them on so short gravel stages), just Umberto was there with very worn tyres, almost slicks ! You do not need to be a scientist to see that something was wrong. I do not say Umby& team were cheating-it must be proven ! But the fact is-tyres were totaly worn out (there is a nice photo on rallylink.it). Until Alpi Orientali at the end of August the court has to make a decission. I belive in their fair decission, until then I wish to Umby, Ucci, Basso & Co a pleasant holidays.
P.S. nobody mentioned Cempedelli-he was very very fast on the second day. Nice...

I didn't say what You are trying to put in my mouth. I did say that if this rule shall be now out of the blue applied than almost all results of rally events held under FIA since this rule was created are in fact illegal (especially Loeb's victory in Cyprus 2009 which was 100% same case like this one). The rules simply state mandatory condition. It doesn't matter if the violation was intentional or not. Discussion about the cause of violation is completely irrelevant. Either the rule applies really for everybody or for nobody but to pick one driver to disqualify him is not correct (even if he really did it intentionally - which I believe he did). Just go to some Your local Slovenian rally to an entry CP of final service and check how many cars could be disqualified because their tyres are completely gone. Imagine You are their competitor. This rule gives You a tool how to remove some of Your opponents from final results.

Munkvy

7th July 2014, 02:25

The thing with protests is the protesting team has to put up money to be able to lodge a protest, so they have to be pretty certain they are right or risk losing that money if their protest isn't upheld.

However, anyone/team can protest the behaviour of another competitor/team. So they all have the right to do this if they see someone cheating, or even just mentioning to the CRO/CoC that they have seen something illegal. If they don't do that, they are disadvantaging themselves. The rules are meant to be followed, if you cheat/fail to comply, you are risking getting caught and a lot of the rules in rally work on an honour system, as the officials can't be everywhere, so you are reliant on your fellow competitors being honest, so sometimes you have to do something about that...

It's a calculated risk and sometimes someone will feel strongly enough about cheating to say something, although most of the time people just whinge. IF they did run with tyres that were low tread to get better grip (which makes sense as the tread blocks being shaved down means less tyre movement), then they did have an advantage and they got caught, that's only fair. Will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

Mirek

7th July 2014, 09:39

That's true but first of all rules shall be fully applicable without exceptions. The problem with this rule is that it is not. It was created to fit with legal requirements on road sections not because of competitive aspects. This rule is automatically violated by everyone who has very worn tyres. So without any real intention to cheat everybody with worn tyres can be disqualified based on this rule - if any of his opponents wants to and appeal.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure in this case it was intentional act by Scandola and his team. The problem is that nowhere in the rulebook it is said that only intentional violation of this rule is illegal. Therefore the rule is simply wrong and as such it's better to be ignored than to be used in random cases.

Ucci

11th July 2014, 08:51

Rally Casentino for I.R.C. championship (valid also for Mitropa), a very special guest with Nb.1. This will be very good training for him for the upcoming tarmac WRC events. I have no doubt that he we'll win by a huge margin.....

http://www.scuderiaetruria.net/public/CASENTINO%202014/Elenco%20Iscritti%20%202014.pdf

Jarek Z

11th July 2014, 15:15

thuGG

11th July 2014, 15:43

Hmm, that logo.

rage82

12th July 2014, 12:24

Not surprisingly Kubica is leading after SS3 with 16.3 sec. ahead of Cresci

Ucci

13th July 2014, 11:05

Despite flat tyre and brake problems as a result of this, Kubica won with a ''comfort'' margin over Felice Re(another victory for I.R.C.!!) and Corrado Fontana.
The most impressive result achived by Kubica was on 7th stage-stage's lenght 23, km and he was 42 seconds faster than the second F.Re.....that is almost 2sec/km...same category 1,6 l WRC....I'm speechless...

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 12:59

Yes, what an easy win for Kubica. Despite flat tyre and brake problems he was almost 3 minutes faster than Felice Re. I personally don't understand it. Kubica is not an exceptionally good driver, why are those IRC "stars" so slow?

Results of 34. RALLY INTERNAZIONALE DEL CASENTINO
1. Robert Kubica/Przemysław Mazur (PL) Ford Fiesta RS WRC 1:29.18,3
2. Felice Re/Mara Bariani (I) Citroën DS3 WRC +2.38,6
3. Corrado Fontana/Nicola Arena (I) Ford Focus RS WRC 08 +2.46,3
4. Luigi Ambrosoli/Silvio Stefanelli (I/RSM) Citroën C4 WRC +3.27,8
5. Rudy Michelini/Michele Perna (I) Citroën DS3 R5 +3.29,5
6. Alessandro Re/Giulio Turatti (I) Citroën DS3 RRC +8.18,1
7. Max Rendina/Mario Pizzuti (I) Ford Fiesta R5 +8.36,3
8. Roberto Vescovi/Giancarla Guzzi (I) Renault Clio R3 +9.35,9
9. Manuel Kössler/Benedikt Hofmann (D/A) Subaru Impreza WRX STI R4 +10.09,6
10. Andrea Dal Ponte/Enrico Tessaro (I) Renault Clio S1600 +10.25,0

http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/images/phocagallery/0_diretteweb_2014/casentino/sabato_1/thumbs/phoca_thumb_l_01_kubica__.jpg

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 13:01

Some nice photos from the good old Massimo Bettiol. His photos are not as exceptionally good as they used to be in the past, but still worth watching:
http://www.rallylink.it/diretteweb/index.php/immagini-casentino-2014/category/147-sabato-la-gara

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 13:09

Video from the rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKYvRNYXARU

thuGG

13th July 2014, 14:06

Yes, what an easy win for Kubica. Despite flat tyre and brake problems he was almost 3 minutes faster than Felice Re. I personally don't understand it. Kubica is not an exceptionally good driver, why are those IRC "stars" so slow?

Overall he may not be exceptionally good rally driver, but on asphalt he is exceptionally quick and he has proven that multiple times. Don't really understand your confussion.

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 14:47

Overall he may not be exceptionally good rally driver, but on asphalt he is exceptionally quick and he has proven that multiple times. Don't really understand your confussion.

I think that Ogier or Loeb are exceptionally quick on tarmac. As far as I know Kubica hasn't even won any important rally on tarmac in his whole career.

Anyway, here is some spectacular action from shakedown. It seems it was a great rally with very interesting stages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_668y1BIg

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 14:56

Another very good video with spectacular action (3 minutes). Recommended!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5_i-rLspMQ#t=16

Kuba Raddatz

13th July 2014, 21:22

I think that Ogier or Loeb are exceptionally quick on tarmac. As far as I know Kubica hasn't even won any important rally on tarmac in his whole career.

Anyway, here is some spectacular action from shakedown. It seems it was a great rally with very interesting stages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_668y1BIg

Maybe that's because he didnt participate in any? Wait till germany, france and spain. He will win at least one of them. Mark my words. Last year in spain on some stages he was under 0,6 sek/sek slower then best wrc car on rrc ds3.

Munkvy

13th July 2014, 22:11

I think that Ogier or Loeb are exceptionally quick on tarmac. As far as I know Kubica hasn't even won any important rally on tarmac in his whole career.

Anyway, here is some spectacular action from shakedown. It seems it was a great rally with very interesting stages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq_668y1BIg
Kubica seems to have the skill to hold the car on the limit, but where he seems to falter is doing that consistently? Ie he can get himself up into a good position and post excellent times, but lacks the consistency of a Loeb or Ogier? And eventually makes a mistake. So perhaps a rally like this one with only 7 stages, is much more of a sprint and therefore suited to his skills?

Jarek Z

13th July 2014, 23:47

Kubica seems to have the skill to hold the car on the limit, but where he seems to falter is doing that consistently? Ie he can get himself up into a good position and post excellent times, but lacks the consistency of a Loeb or Ogier? And eventually makes a mistake. So perhaps a rally like this one with only 7 stages, is much more of a sprint and therefore suited to his skills?

I have never thought about it this way, but you may be right. Maybe Kubica is good only in short rallies?

WUff1

14th July 2014, 06:12

Don´t forget Jänner Rallye 2014. But it was more than lucky that he finished there.

Kuba Raddatz

14th July 2014, 08:59

Everyone must remember one thing before making any conclusion. This is the guy second season ever raling on regular basic. It is like Ogier did karting few times in his life, then one season in some gp3 or other minor series, and next season he would end up in F1 being jugded by F1 funs by comparing him with alonso every time he makes mistake. Not very fair, is it.

thuGG

14th July 2014, 10:22

I think that Ogier or Loeb are exceptionally quick on tarmac. As far as I know Kubica hasn't even won any important rally on tarmac in his whole career.

I guess you first have to participate in major tarmac rally to win it (that's assuming only WRC rally is a major rally).

Mirek

14th July 2014, 11:12

I guess you first have to participate in major tarmac rally to win it (that's assuming only WRC rally is a major rally).

Ehm... ask Gronholm or Kankkunen about Ypres rally ;) There are very difficult asphalt events outside WRC where WRC regulars often failed in the past.

Jarek Z

14th July 2014, 11:29

I guess you first have to participate in major tarmac rally to win it.

Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. First you have to win a rally so that later people can call you fast.

thuGG

14th July 2014, 11:29

Ehm... ask Gronholm or Kankkunen about Ypres rally ;) There are very difficult asphalt events outside WRC where WRC regulars often failed in the past.

Ok, but I think the rule "you have to participate in order to win it" still applies ;P

Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. First you have to win a rally so that later people can say that you are fast.
Not necessarily, you can show that you are fast but erratic (not consistent). He showed that many times, last was Monte Carlo, when he won some stages, and on the long stage he was on pace with Ogier, but ended in a ditch. Fast and erratic.

Not making it completely OT, here are some Kubica onboards from Rally del Casentino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJQfo6kUiPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFd46cJp89c

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TaSS8EhG94

manthey

14th July 2014, 23:16

Ok, but I think the rule "you have to participate in order to win it" still applies ;P

Not necessarily, you can show that you are fast but erratic (not consistent). He showed that many times, last was Monte Carlo, when he won some stages, and on the long stage he was on pace with Ogier, but ended in a ditch. Fast and erratic.

Not making it completely OT, here are some Kubica onboards from Rally del Casentino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJQfo6kUiPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFd46cJp89c

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TaSS8EhG94

awesome the last video with best of!
I'm not a fan of bonnet view in the other ones

Imho Kubica on the tarmac is very close to the VW-guys

I found an article of last year about personal setup by Kubica, directly from his f1 experience for tarmac rally
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/show.php?id=21917&title=citroen-planuje-presun-roberta-kubici-do-ms-v-roce-2014

should be interesting to know the differences with common setup adopted

nafpaktos

15th July 2014, 14:05

Maybe that's because he didnt participate in any? Wait till germany, france and spain. He will win at least one of them. Mark my words. Last year in spain on some stages he was under 0,6 sek/sek slower then best wrc car on rrc ds3.
I mark your words but i think its difficult to win.i believe he will be on podium and he will win some ss.

nafpaktos

15th July 2014, 14:12

Ehm... ask Gronholm or Kankkunen about Ypres rally ;) There are very difficult asphalt events outside WRC where WRC regulars often failed in the past.
Details please!

Mirek

15th July 2014, 14:40

If I'm not mistaken both Grönholm and Kankkunen crashed on the very first stage of Ypres. Duval did the same in 2009 and Sarrazin didn't get much farther :)

nafpaktos

15th July 2014, 15:29

As factory drivers?(gronholm,kankkunen)

Mirek

15th July 2014, 16:13

Hups, now I realized that with Grönholm it was not Ypres but another Belgian rally - Bianchi (in Wallonie). he was there as privateer in 1998. Kankkunen in Ypres was as factory driver in 1995 I think.

Jarek Z

15th July 2014, 16:24

Kankkunen in Ypres was as factory driver in 1995 I think.

I think it was in 1995 or 1996. Kankkunen came with the factory Toyota Celica GT-Four in Castrol colours. There was big hype about it, it was a big event, but... he went off into a ditch on the very first stage :) I saw it on TV only, maybe Belgian friends will tell you more details...

http://foto.rallyonline.pl/GALERIA/demeyere/ypres_historia/ypres%201996%20kankunnen%20kdm.jpg

HaCo

16th July 2014, 19:33

I think it was in 1995 or 1996. Kankkunen came with the factory Toyota Celica GT-Four in Castrol colours. There was big hype about it, it was a big event, but... he went off into a ditch on the very first stage :) I saw it on TV only, maybe Belgian friends will tell you more details...

http://foto.rallyonline.pl/GALERIA/demeyere/ypres_historia/ypres%201996%20kankunnen%20kdm.jpg

It was in 1995, the same year of the fatal accident. I was on the first stage and never saw KKK if I recall correctly.
Here he is: http://youtu.be/hWmt9KNwNYE?t=30s