Can Suzuki beat Subaru in 2009?

[jens]

For a moment let's take our attention away from top contenders and have a look, what is going on behind them.

To some it may seem a long shot, but considering recent results exactly such thought or more likely question has entered my head. Subaru's progress has in way stagnated - a lot was hoped from the new 2008 challenger, but it has hardly proved to be a more competitive machinery than its predecessor. Unfortunately it has become difficult to see Subaru making further progress up the field. On the other hand, the start of Suzuki's WRC-campaign was a bit difficult as the car was both unreliable and slow, but their progress during the year has been remarkable, which are indicated by good points finishes in the last two rallies. In both rallies they have actually scored more manufacturer points than Subaru! While Subaru has stagnated, Suzuki has been improving significantly during their first full WRC-season.

Drivers-wise I don't see any problem at Suzuki too. Due to unreliability it has been quite difficult to rate them, but PG Andersson has seriously impressed me as it seems pace-wise he has at least matched Gardemeister, if not bettered him, as much as it has been possible to make comparisons. To me PGA is definetely an underrated rally driver and it would be exciting to see him in a top car and even if he isn't as good as Loeb, he may well be in the second tier. And Toni is pretty much in Hirvonen's mould - may not be the fastest driver on planet, but is quite a reliable point-scorer, which is exactly what Suzuki needs to capitalize their chances in the championship.

So, can Suzuki challenge Subaru in the fight for P3 in the 2009 manufacturers championship?

[BDunnell]

The Suzuki seems to go well in really treacherous conditions, but is it better than the Subaru in more 'normal' circumstances?

[Helstar]

Yes they can. Totally quote first post remarks.

Go PG and Suzuki !

[ProRally]

IF Suzuki continues then they could beat Subaru

[Tomi]

The Suzuki seems to go well in really treacherous conditions, but is it better than the Subaru in more 'normal' circumstances?

Actually the drivers has been allowed to drive only in Japan and GB, the reason has been too few cars.

[pettersolberg29]

No chance!

Either Petter or Chris gets a top 5 finsih almost every rally, while Suzuki only ever get low points (except today!).

Again, no chance!

[Mirek]

pettersolberg29: BUT while Subaru steadyly goes down, Suzuki steadyly goes up...

[jonas_mcrae]

No chance!

Either Petter or Chris gets a top 5 finsih almost every rally, while Suzuki only ever get low points (except today!).

Again, no chance!

haha in total denial

GO SUZUKI!!!!

[pettersolberg29]

Subaru may be poor, but Suzuki are shocking!

When Suzuki get a top 5 position everyone is amazed, while Subaru get one almost every round.

[tmx]

I haven't follow things lately, but is Suzuki planning to compete in 2009?

Anyway, no. But they can compete with the Subaru M2 team, but I expect Mads Ostberg to do well in it.

[Allyc85]

If PG and Gardemeister dive like they did over the last 3 days and Suzuki can keep the car relieble then I really cannot see why they cant. Subarus pace seems to have stayed at the same level while the Suzuki is slowly improving. I just hope they can keep going for next year :)

[Minke]

If Dave Richards buys Honda F1, then I think Subaru will either disappear, or leave the Prodrive fold and go it alone in which case, yes Suzuki will be Subaru in 09,10,11

JB

just my 2cents

[Camelopard]

Subaru may be poor, but Suzuki are shocking!

When Suzuki get a top 5 position everyone is amazed, while Subaru get one almost every round.

Give Suzuki time, how long have they been in the top level?
How long has Subaru been there? When was the last time Subaru won a wrc round?

[Ghostwalker]

How long has Subaru been there? When was the last time Subaru won a wrc round?

Sweden, Mexico and GB 2005

[iJones]

So, can Suzuki challenge Subaru in the fight for P3 in the 2009 manufacturers championship?
If Suzuki continues to run their rally programme with left hand only I'd say no. If they however start testing seriously and get more power, possibly.

[Camelopard]

Sweden, Mexico and GB 2005

3 years and counting between drinks, it's a long time at this level!!!!

[jonkka]

There is little point of developing the existing cars as technical rules are set to change in 2010. For Suzuki, the point is to gain experience and to create a functioning team.

[tmx]

Note in 2005 is the tragic accident of Beef and the win was handed to Solberg after Marcus retired. The only reason I even keep watching rally is to see Solberg win again. http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

[pantealex]

No suzuki can´t beat subaru 2009
2010 maybe...

[jure dvorsek]

No suzuki can´t beat subaru 2009
2010 maybe...


I agree...
After two rallies, which were not under ''normal'' circumstances, we can not make any serius conclusion!!
I still belive in Subaru, after all Peter and Chris are no slower than Toni&PG...
But, we can not forget also some other ''young guns'' for the 2009: Ostberg, Mikkelssen, Ogier....

[jparker]

There is little point of developing the existing cars as technical rules are set to change in 2010. For Suzuki, the point is to gain experience and to create a functioning team.

Absolutely right. I still believe they are not just gaining experience, they are actually testing the car with 2010 in mind.

[Rally_Rocks]

Sadly I believe this debate may be a bit of a waste of time. Suzuki won't be here next year and are not likely to look at WRC again til the 2011 season at the earliest.

[miksu]

Sadly I believe this debate may be a bit of a waste of time. Suzuki won't be here next year and are not likely to look at WRC again til the 2011 season at the earliest.

They won't? is it sure now? have you got some links to your sources or what they might be...?

[RS]

I heard that they have not decided yet but must do so before next Monday at the latest (deadline for manufacturer entries for 2009).

[Helstar]

Such a pity if so ... PG :'

[GigiGalliNo1]

But what do you guys think of the Suzuki? Any Potential if they conitnue?

I think its one sexy rally car! :p

[A.F.F.]

IMO there's nothing sexy about Suzuki. It's a total disaster.

[iJones]

IMO there's nothing sexy about Suzuki. It's a total disaster.

If one compares it to the new Impreza, I wouldn't say that. ;)

[jonkka]

But what do you guys think of the Suzuki? Any Potential if they conitnue?

Definitely they got potential, every team has. But to realize that potential they need to test more, develop the team and the car and have a clear strategy. Now it seems that not even the top officials in the team won't know whether they'll be in WRC for 2009 or not, that's bound to affect long term planning.

Admittedly, times are hard in economy and for automotive industry in particular so that's a valid excuse but still.


I think its one sexy rally car! :p

Aesthetically it's not a too pretty car. Too high and small, but prettiness never won any rallies so I don't mind the looks too much.

[Camelopard]

IMO there's nothing sexy about Suzuki. It's a total disaster.

It's a lot better looking than the ugly c4, imo.

[Helstar]

It's a lot better looking than the ugly c4, imo.
Agree, kind of similar to Skoda Fabia too ...

[Saabaru]

Suzuki should ditch the SX4 and use a Reno instead. The Reno just looks like it would make a better rally car for many reasons: the roof slopes inward to help the center of gravity, good wheel placement, the rear hatch slopes better than the SX4 and would allow for a better wing, and the car just looks to have a good natural weight distribution without any modifications. The SX4 is just too tall and narrow for its length, which the short length is already a hindrance to it anyway.

[jens]

Well, Suzuki has beaten Subaru in announcing their departure from WRC. :p :

[Daniel]

I think Subaru and Suzuki will achieve about the same as each other next year as works teams :P

[Helstar]

Wow talking about bad omens xD

Please Jens, don't open a thread called "Can Ford beat Citroen in 2009" ! lol

[jonas_mcrae]

Sadly I think this thread lost all relevance today... Unless both Suzuki and Subaru get M2 teams for next year!

by the way I can't find an answer to this question perhaps someone here knows; how many SX4 WRC did suzuki build in total?

[Nenukknak]

how many SX4 WRC did suzuki build in total?

Too many! :p

[mdesign]

This thread is ironic

[Tomi]

I think Subaru and Suzuki will achieve about the same as each other next year as works teams :P

Same here, not bad from a team who has been only 1 year in WRC. :)