Button it!!

[Knock-on]

I wonder what team will be "on the Button".

Renault have confirmed Piquet. Is that cast in stone?

Seb looks like he's out of STR anyway so a possible shoe-in for Jens?

Team Honda may be sold but ...........

Interesting :s

[Tazio]

Button , and Fred will be driving a Ferrari Torro Rosso with a Cosworth Power Plant :laugh:

[ArrowsFA1]

Honda Motor Company CEO Takeo Fukui apologised to Jenson Button after the Japanese manufacturer announced its withdrawal from Formula One.
"It's a real shame and I feel deeply sorry for Jenson Button," Fukui told a news conference.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72330

Obviously words don't help JB, but still it's nice to see them said.

[52Paddy]

I hope Button does land himself a drive next year. I still believe he has potential to get himself back in order. I don't believe he'll ever be world champion, but I think he can still be a worthy asset to a team.

[Dave B]

If anybody does buy Honda as a going concern then having an experienced racer on board will be an enormous help, however I suspect that drivers with bulging wallets are more attractive in this current climate.

[ioan]

Maybe those German investors whom Fry turned down when they wanted to buy SAF1 will now get their hands on Honda F1, what an irony, but fully deserved by Fry.

[truefan72]

Maybe those German investors whom Fry turned down when they wanted to buy SAF1 will now get their hands on Honda F1, what an irony, but fully deserved by Fry.


well said.

And I see Fry exiting the sport after overseeing the most spectacular downturn of a top notch team in the history of the sport. he has managed to ruin two F1 team. If I were Honda's board, I would also go aheafd and fire those responsible for keeping him onboard and providing him with powers he had.

I wouldn't hire him to manage my local mcdonalds.

[Ranger]

STR is more likely to hire Sato for reasons other than talent.

[ioan]

STR is more likely to hire Sato for reasons other than talent.

What has Sato to do with this thread? :rolleyes:

[ioan]

well said.

And I see Fry exiting the sport after overseeing the most spectacular downturn of a top notch team in the history of the sport. he has managed to ruin two F1 team. If I were Honda's board, I would also go aheafd and fire those responsible for keeping him onboard and providing him with powers he had.

I wouldn't hire him to manage my local mcdonalds.

:rotflmao:

[MrJan]

What has Sato to do with this thread? :rolleyes:

The comments to do with bulging wallets :) Jenson and Rubens are probably better drivers than Taku but don't bring in the same weight has having the Japanese market behind them, sign of the times unfortunately :)

[ioan]

The comments to do with bulging wallets :) Jenson and Rubens are probably better drivers than Taku but don't bring in the same weight has having the Japanese market behind them, sign of the times unfortunately :)

I'm not sure about that. Sato outdrove Button and Rubens on a 2nd hand Honda, also he is more likable and never whines, something I appreciate a lot more than any hype about Button.

[Knock-on]

The comments to do with bulging wallets :) Jenson and Rubens are probably better drivers than Taku but don't bring in the same weight has having the Japanese market behind them, sign of the times unfortunately :)

If that were true, Sato would have been driving for Honda last year.

[V12]

I'm not sure about that. Sato outdrove Button and Rubens on a 2nd hand Honda, also he is more likable and never whines, something I appreciate a lot more than any hype about Button.

That "2nd hand" Honda was their 2006 car...which Button won a race in. It was widely acknowledged to be a better car (in absolute terms that is, not just relative to that year's opposition) than their 2007 disaster.

[Mickey T]

so the Honda F1 Seiko that nick fry gave me last year, still in its white leather box, has become a collector's item?

fantastic!

very sad for the mechanics, machinists, fabricators and the rest.

we should all remember that the majority of the people who work in F1 are paid no more than you and i and they will have their struggles to pay their mortgages and put a christmas dinner together.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Sato outdrove Button and Rubens on a 2nd hand Honda.

I think it is fairly clear that the 2007 Super Aguri (ie - the '06 Honda) began that year in better shape than the 2007 Honda.

For a more accurate comparison of Button & Sato's respective pace, you should check out their results when they were paired together at B.A.R

[Bezza]

Sato should be history by now, I cannot comprehend how he isn't. Nowhere near good enough for F1 and a danger to everybody else.

Button should be in a better team. It's a tragedy that he persevered with Honda for so long, only for this to happen! He should get himself a test driving role at Renault, or BMW - and wait for an opening. In my opinion a drive at STR would do more harm than good.

[ioan]

I think it is fairly clear that the 2007 Super Aguri (ie - the '06 Honda) began that year in better shape than the 2007 Honda.

For a more accurate comparison of Button & Sato's respective pace, you should check out their results when they were paired together at B.A.R

:laugh:
So a driver doesn't have the right to evolve during his carreer? :rolleyes:

Get a grip, Button is pants, Rubens at the end of his career made o mockery of him. :laugh:

[ioan]

Sato should be history by now, I cannot comprehend how he isn't. Nowhere near good enough for F1 and a danger to everybody else.

Button should be in a better team. It's a tragedy that he persevered with Honda for so long, only for this to happen! He should get himself a test driving role at Renault, or BMW - and wait for an opening. In my opinion a drive at STR would do more harm than good.

That's only biased crap.
Button persevered with Honda cause no one else wanted him anymore.

[F1boat]

Button won a race. I think that Sato will never achieve this.

[MrJan]

That's only biased crap.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

People in glass houses..... ;) :D

[ioan]

Button won a race. I think that Sato will never achieve this.

Getting a 7th and passing Alonso's McLaren while driving a SAF1 was a way better achievement that Button's fortuitous win, IMO.

Sato is a racer, Button is a journeyman.

[ioan]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

People in glass houses..... ;) :D

Throw it back, I'm not afraid, cause you've got nothing at hand! :)

[Knock-on]

That's only biased crap.
Button persevered with Honda cause no one else wanted him anymore.


ioan, there are facts and opinions.

Facts

2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel ;) )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3 in the BAR
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.

So, your opinion is that Sato out drove Button but the reality is the opposite.

Still, this is the all new and improved soft, cuddly, sweet smelling forum so your opinion is perfectly valid if backed up by fantasy rather than fact :D

[ioan]

ioan, there are facts and opinions.

Facts

2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel ;) )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.

So, your opinion is that Sato out drove Button but the reality is the opposite.

Still, this is the all new and improved soft, cuddly, sweet smelling forum so your opinion is perfectly valid if backed up by fantasy rather than fact :D

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

[Knock-on]

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

At least you started the post with "IMO" :laugh:

So, when they were in the same car, why did a "proper" racing driver like Sato only score 38 where the "tourer" managed to fluke 204. That's consistently outscoring him more than 5 points to 1!!!

Blimey, Freddie murdered Piquet this year in his rookie year and only managed 3:1

In fact, I can't think of anyone over such a consistent period of time that was so owned and I'm actually a fan of Sato and think he's a fast cookie!!

By your reckoning, Ide is the 2nd coming of Christ :laugh:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

IMO last year Sato proved to be a better racer than Button, in fact I think he's always been a better racer than Button, as Button never was a racer only a tourer.

If Button is out of F1 we'll have one less journeyman in F1, he can go team up with DC. They both did about the same in the last couple of seasons.

Are you just being obtuse for the sake of it now?

When Button and Sato both had the same machinery (for 3 seasons), Button annihilated him every season.

Are you only saying Button isn't a racer because he doesn't fight the car like Massa or Kimi?

[MrJan]

Throw it back, I'm not afraid, cause you've got nothing at hand! :)

I just find it funny that after all the debates in which you are so biased against McLaren, Hamilton and Button that you would be so hypocritical to accuse someone of spouting 'biased crap'.

Of course if we look at the figures then it would appear that Button is a much better driver than Taku, afterall how many races has Sato won? Do those blinkers that you wear give you sweaty eyes? I'm no BUtton fan and certainly don't think he will amount to much in F1 (even with a top drive he will only ever be a 'Coulthard' type driver IMO) but it is clear to me that Sato is not up to his standard (not that Taku is a poor driver, he certainly deserves a place ahead of someone like Piquet as far as I'm concerned)

[Bagwan]

Sato was never #1 driver for Honda .

[donKey jote]

[Button] should get himself a test driving role at Renault, ...

Hasn't he already been there, done that...

I tell you people he was not ready
he got stuffed by Flav in the name of Freddie :p :

:laugh:

:dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Nikki Katz]

I think his best shot at a seat next year will be with whatever team replaces Honda.
If no buyer is found then I guess he has a shot at Bourdais' seat, but so do a lot of people.

[jens]

Huh, Button... Well, I think if Honda doesn't find a buyer (don't know yet) and some teams won't be forced to use third cars (unlikely to happen, I reckon - and even then they'll more likely elevate their test/junior drivers), then JB may face a villeneuveqsue fate by staying out for a year like the Canadian did in 2004. I don't think Button's reputation is so high that any team would sack their driver to hire him. Looking at vacant seats - there is Toro Rosso, but it seems they want a driver with money and even Bourdais is struggling to find the required sponsorship, so I doubt Button is in a better position as he has been used to high salaries and not to be in a pay-driver role.

Button's stock has fallen. He was a hot property back in 2004-2005, when BAR and Williams were fighting for him. Now I don't foresee a fight and of course the fact that he failed to handle an old hand this year hasn't done any good to him at all. Although I still think that Button can be a fine driver and he is capable of more than he showed in 2008, this is how the world of motor racing works - there are actually loads of fine drivers and to keep your status as a wanted driver, it's needed to prove yourself all the time and consistently. Unmotivation has no room there. If Button is out of drive for 2009, then I guess he'll be eyeing a comeback in 2010. Well, for this to happen he must act really intensely by trying to find why not even a test driver role somewhere for a start and also try to find a race seat in some kind of series to prove himself.



2008 doesn't count.
2007 JB in the Honda beat TS in the SA when the SA was considered the better performing car. (Wind Tunnel ;) )
2006 JB smokes TS 56 Vs 0 but the Honda was a good car that year compared to the SA.
2005 JB 72 - TS 1 in the BAR
2004 JB 85 - TS 34 in the BAR
2003 JB 17 - TS 3 in the BAR
2002 JB is in the Renault where he smokes his team mate Trulli. TS is in the Jordan where he's beaten by his team mate Fisi.


Don't be joking mate - performance-wise Button didn't smoke Trulli, far from that. ;) And the amount of Jenson's points in 2005 was 37, if that makes any difference. :) And to clarify facts, in 2003 Sato drove only 1 race.

[BDunnell]

ioan, read jens' post above in order to see how to be critical of someone without resorting to the usual old accusations of bias (pots and kettles spring to mind) against other members who disagree with your opinion. Then, maybe, there will be no need for so many aggressive disagreements.

[ioan]

ioan, read jens' post above in order to see how to be critical of someone without resorting to the usual old accusations of bias (pots and kettles spring to mind) against other members who disagree with your opinion. Then, maybe, there will be no need for so many aggressive disagreements.

When I see people saying "Sato is no good, he shouldn't even be in F1 bla bla bla but Button should be given a seat in X top team" I no matter how hard I try I can't dignify them with a complicated and nice reply.

Button has been pants since 2004 and he lucked into his only win ever. That's what I think and I feel no urge to wrap it into nice golden foil.
Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

Sorry for the harsh tone, it's certainly not directed to you, but I'm not always a nice chap.

[ioan]

Huh, Button... Well, I think if Honda doesn't find a buyer (don't know yet) and some teams won't be forced to use third cars (unlikely to happen, I reckon - and even then they'll more likely elevate their test/junior drivers), then JB may face a villeneuveqsue fate by staying out for a year like the Canadian did in 2004. I don't think Button's reputation is so high that any team would sack their driver to hire him. Looking at vacant seats - there is Toro Rosso, but it seems they want a driver with money and even Bourdais is struggling to find the required sponsorship, so I doubt Button is in a better position as he has been used to high salaries and not to be in a pay-driver role.

Button's stock has fallen. He was a hot property back in 2004-2005, when BAR and Williams were fighting for him. Now I don't foresee a fight and of course the fact that he failed to handle an old hand this year hasn't done any good to him at all. Although I still think that Button can be a fine driver and he is capable of more than he showed in 2008, this is how the world of motor racing works - there are actually loads of fine drivers and to keep your status as a wanted driver, it's needed to prove yourself all the time and consistently. Unmotivation has no room there. If Button is out of drive for 2009, then I guess he'll be eyeing a comeback in 2010. Well, for this to happen he must act really intensely by trying to find why not even a test driver role somewhere for a start and also try to find a race seat in some kind of series to prove himself.



Don't be joking mate - performance-wise Button didn't smoke Trulli, far from that. ;) And the amount of Jenson's points in 2005 was 37, if that makes any difference. :) And to clarify facts, in 2003 Sato drove only 1 race.

Thanks for straightening out the record and expressing things in a more civilized way than I would do it. ;)

[ioan]

I just find it funny that after all the debates in which you are so biased against McLaren, Hamilton and Button that you would be so hypocritical to accuse someone of spouting 'biased crap'.

Of course if we look at the figures then it would appear that Button is a much better driver than Taku, afterall how many races has Sato won? Do those blinkers that you wear give you sweaty eyes? I'm no BUtton fan and certainly don't think he will amount to much in F1 (even with a top drive he will only ever be a 'Coulthard' type driver IMO) but it is clear to me that Sato is not up to his standard (not that Taku is a poor driver, he certainly deserves a place ahead of someone like Piquet as far as I'm concerned)

I'm not living in any glass house, if anyone thinks he/she can dispute what I say than go ahead, shoot. :)

[BDunnell]

When I see people saying "Sato is no good, he shouldn't even be in F1 bla bla bla but Button should be given a seat in X top team" I no matter how hard I try I can't dignify them with a complicated and nice reply.

A lot of other people manage to.



Button has been pants since 2004 and he lucked into his only win ever. That's what I think and I feel no urge to wrap it into nice golden foil.
Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic. You don't seem to credit those who make such comments with any rational thought — for you, it must come down to nationality. This is simply untrue. I also find it rather offensive.

Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis actually drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise. The same would have been said of a Sato victory at some point, had it happened. If you class yourself as an enthusiast, you too ought to derive pleasure from the unexpected happening. It's not all down to luck. It's an old cliché, but there's an extent to which you make your own luck.

And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Tell you what, if the guy wasn't British but let's say Japanese, the same people would say his a crappy driver. Well I won't fell into this stupid nationalistic merry go around.

.

If Button was Japanese we would be celebrating him as being one of the most successful Japanese drivers.

IN MY OPINION you just have a hatred for anything British, whether it be Button, McLaren or Hamilton

[Brown, Jon Brow]

A lot of other people manage to.



We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic. You don't seem to credit those who make such comments with any rational thought — for you, it must come down to nationality. This is simply untrue. I also find it rather offensive.

Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise. The same would have been said of a Sato victory at some point, had it happened. If you class yourself as an enthusiast, you too ought to derive pleasure from the unexpected happening. It's not all down to luck. It's an old cliché, but there's an extent top which you make your own luck.

And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

:up:



I think that Buttons best drive was in 2004 at Hockenhiem. He was overtaking for fun.

[ioan]

A lot of other people manage to.

I really don't feel the urge to do it, maybe I'm not like a lot of people. :?:


We've been through this before. As soon as a Brit says something good about a British driver that you don't agree with, you accuse them of being nationalistic.

As long as they don't couple it with making fun or bashing a non-British driver I could accept it, but not like this. You may be a partisan of someone without laughing about others in a poor attempt to make your fave look better.


Personally, I derived great pleasure from Button's win because it was a very well-thought-out drive in difficult conditions, and because it was a surprise, just as Olivier Panis actually drove really well in Monaco in 1996 and that was a surprise.

Button's win was pure luck, nothing more. As for Panis, he won the race after he spun Irvine around in the Lowes hairpin when he rear ended him. Nothing to be proud of either, I can still see it happen like if it was yesterday.


And I have to say that you are on very thin ice when accusing others of blind bias.

As I said if you got something at hand shoot, I'll defend my opinion, and I'm yet to think about supporting a driver that wasn't worth it, let alone based on nationality.

[ioan]

If Button was Japanese we would be celebrating him as being one of the most successful Japanese drivers.

Really? I guess can't prove it, so I'll let it be one of the funniest suppositions. because I would still say that Button is pants even if had any other nationality including Martian.



IN MY OPINION you just have a hatred for anything British, whether it be Button, McLaren or Hamilton

IMO you are feeling hurt in your British proud, but FYI I like many British bands ( The Beatles, Queen being the best ones that come to mind).

I only hate stupidity, hypocrisy and nationalism. ;)

[BDunnell]

Button's win was pure luck, nothing more. As for Panis, he won the race after he spun Irvine around in the Lowes hairpin when he rear ended him. Nothing to be proud of either, I can still see it happen like if it was yesterday.


So no skill was involved at all in either win, then?

And your memory is seriously deficient about Monaco '96. Panis did not 'rear-end' Irvine. He dived down the inside into Loews, Irvine closed the door and they clashed virtually side-by-side. There was no 'rear-ending' involved. Panis also passed a large number of other cars that day, which you may have forgotten or not noticed. But I wasn't expecting you to remember any of this.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Really? I guess can't prove it, so I'll let it be one of the funniest suppositions. because I would still say that Button is pants even if had any other nationality including Martian.



IMO you are feeling hurt in your British proud, but FYI I like many British bands ( The Beatles, Queen being the best ones that come to mind).

I only hate stupidity, hypocrisy and nationalism. ;)

I'm just defending a driver who I rate highly.

IMO If Button was driving a Ferrari then you would love him.

I only hate stupidity, hypocrisy and biased one team fans.

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Hhmmmm... the only thing more obsolete than last model's

Race Car,

;) Is a journeyman race driver...

getting long in the tooth.

:D : Button is still one of the smoothest drivers in F-1 and currently is just behind the fastest five or six drivers (LH,FM,FA,HR, ...., ....).

That makes Button obsolete... with younger drivers, just as fast or faster available, who would want to invest the time in a driver that will be gone in a year or two !!!

Unless team Honda is aquired and runs in 2009, I don't think Button will be on the grid.

A fine driver in his day, yet never quite reaching the Brass Ring...

the sands of time are running out for Button.

[BDunnell]

:dozey: Hhmmmm... the only thing more obsolete than last model's

Race Car,

;) Is a journeyman race driver...

getting long in the tooth.

:D : Button is still one of the smoothest drivers in F-1 and currently is just behind the fastest five or six drivers (LH,FM,FA,HR, ...., ....).

That makes Button obsolete... with younger drivers, just as fast or faster available, who would want to invest the time in a driver that will be gone in a year or two !!!

Unless team Honda is aquired and runs in 2009, I don't think Button will be on the grid.

A fine driver in his day, yet never quite reaching the Brass Ring...

the sands of time are running out for Button.

I think that is another very reasonable assessment, although I'm not sure Button will be on the grid if Honda is acquired. Were I buying the team and only able to retain one of the two drivers, it would be Barrichello. But this isn't to say that Button deserves any great degree of criticism.

[ioan]

So no skill was involved at all in either win, then?

Sure there were skills involved, I never said anything like that. But there was more luck involved than skills. That's how I see it.
You can't compare their lonely win with Vettel's win for example, when it was clear that skills were the deciding factor not 3/4 of the field retiring with mechanical problems and accidents.

[ioan]

I'm just defending a driver who I rate highly.

IMO If Button was driving a Ferrari then you would love him.

I only hate stupidity, hypocrisy and biased one team fans.

It must be a difficult life living with yourself.

[BDunnell]

Sure there were skills involved, I never said anything like that. But there was more luck involved than skills. That's how I see it.
You can't compare their lonely win with Vettel's win for example, when it was clear that skills were the deciding factor not 3/4 of the field retiring with mechanical problems and accidents.

I agree that you can't compare them with Vettel's win, but I enjoyed all three examples equally, for they were all just highly entertaining races with a winner from outside the regular circle. And I don't think it's possible to quantify accurately whether a win is more down to luck than skills. It is a matter of opinion, not fact — and I find your opinion highly debatable.

[BDunnell]

It must be a difficult life living with yourself.

ioan, in my view that is an insult too far, and you should apologise.

[CNR]

Sato should be history by now, I cannot comprehend how he isn't. Nowhere near good enough for F1 and a danger to everybody else.

Button should be in a better team. It's a tragedy that he persevered with Honda for so long, only for this to happen! He should get himself a test driving role at Renault, or BMW - and wait for an opening. In my opinion a drive at STR would do more harm than good.

i can not see him having any hope at Renault
2002 Renault he got 14 points

[Brown, Jon Brow]

It must be a difficult life living with yourself.

I don't really understand what you mean with that comment :confused:
Maybe I've struck a nerve and you are taking a low blow.

Let me put my argument for Button this way-

How can a driver with 15 podium finishes and 3 pole positions be considered to be 'pants'?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Sure there were skills involved, I never said anything like that. But there was more luck involved than skills. That's how I see it.
You can't compare their lonely win with Vettel's win for example, when it was clear that skills were the deciding factor not 3/4 of the field retiring with mechanical problems and accidents.

You could argue that Vettel only won because Hamilton, Kimi and Massa all started lower down the grid.

[CNR]

You could argue that Vettel only won because Hamilton, Kimi and Massa all started lower down the grid.

if you like to be like that lets not forget that it was only 6 years in F1 for jenson to win a race
76Felipe Massa (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2006/18.html)Ferrari (http://www.formula1.com/results/team/2006/2899.html)69+1 Lap22
85Michael Schumacher (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2006/7.html)Ferrari (http://www.formula1.com/results/team/2006/2899.html)67Track rod111
Ret1Fernando Alonso (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2006/30.html)Renault (http://www.formula1.com/results/team/2006/2897.html)51Mechanical15Ret3Kimi Räikkönen (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2006/12.html)McLaren-Mercedes (http://www.formula1.com/results/team/2006/2898.html)25Accident1

in his first year the best he did was 6th
in 2001 he best was 17th so how can you compair Vettel was on pole

[Valve Bounce]

so the Honda F1 Seiko that nick fry gave me last year, still in its white leather box, has become a collector's item?

fantastic!

very sad for the mechanics, machinists, fabricators and the rest.

we should all remember that the majority of the people who work in F1 are paid no more than you and i and they will have their struggles to pay their mortgages and put a christmas dinner together.

I have a special Team Honda cap worn only by ant at Monza when he came within .1 second of SchM's all time record and autographed to me. Boy that's gone up a bit as a collector's item and which I will leave to my grandson.

I do remember ant posting, time and again, fastest laps during Friday practice. He did set the car up beautifully for bunsen's races.

Not much else for me to remember Honda for with any fondness. After what they did to Super Aguri, I can only say:"Bugger them!!"

[Tumbo]

Button made a choice of BAR over Williams - while in the short term it seemed a better option, he's ended up backing the wrong horse (provided of course that Williams doesn't fold itself). These things happen

[Valve Bounce]

Button should be in a better team. It's a tragedy that he persevered with Honda for so long, only for this to happen! .

Self Inflicted. I believe in Karma.

[Valve Bounce]

Hasn't he already been there, done that...

I tell you people he was not ready
he got stuffed by Flav in the name of Freddie :p :

:laugh:

:dozey:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

Hang on a sec - maybe Frank will give him a job as a test driver. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Sorry for the harsh tone, it's certainly not directed to you, but I'm not always a nice chap.

Be careful there or you might get a warning for insulting a forum member. :(

[Hawkmoon]

Old Man Barrichello beat Button 11-3 in 2008. Even if you take out his 3rd at Silverstone it's still 5-3 in the Brazillian's favour. This can't be good for Button's prospects.

[WSRfan82]

Ok as so many of you are putting you points and beliefs across to one another about button and other stuff think ill do that same.

A. Button he is a good driver BUT not so good that he deserves a top drive.

B. Sato he has imprested me BUT again doesn’t deserve a top drive and good luck to the guy if he gets the seat at Toro

C. Honda up for sale and I don’t think any one will buy the team in time for next season

D, Button wont be on the grid in 2009 unless some metrical happens

E. This is getting boring now LOL

[Valve Bounce]

Ok as so many of you are putting you points and beliefs across to one another about button and other stuff think ill do that same.

A. Button he is a good driver BUT not so good that he deserves a top drive.

B. Sato he has imprested me BUT again doesn’t deserve a top drive and good luck to the guy if he gets the seat at Toro

C. Honda up for sale and I don’t think any one will buy the team in time for next season

D, Button wont be on the grid in 2009 unless some metrical happens

E. This is getting boring now :rotflmao:

Sato is not as bad a driver as his results in his last year at Honda suggested. The guy was pitted against a very smooth bunsen, and tried to do a lot of desperate measures that he never tried in practice or even testing.
Bunsen is not that bad a driver as his results last year indicated, but his shyte car and lack of commitment let him down. Now the new generation has caught up in skills (like Vettel), they carry a lot less baggage, and less salary demands, and they got in first before Honda dumped bunsen on the doorstep.
Personally, I think the economic downturn will affect prospective more than is evident at this juncture, and if anyone did buy Honda, their financial commitment will not be as great as necessary to make the car competitive next year. So, even if bunsen gets the drive in the reborn Honda, it won't be a great drive. He may even have to take a huge salary cut and come up with sponsors to get the seat.
That's as even handed as I possibly can in regarding bunsen's fortunes.

Just saw a news item on tv and Button saying he'd heard the news just 2 hours prior, he looked stunned as did those around him. I feel for the team as they join thousands of other people around the world who find themselves (even if temporarlily) redundant at Christmas time. At least the team will be spared from that poor excuse for an F1 car in 2009.

[ShiftingGears]

Getting a 7th and passing Alonso's McLaren while driving a SAF1 was a way better achievement that Button's fortuitous win, IMO.

Sato is a racer, Button is a journeyman.

Wow! A driver passing another driver in a better yet damaged car after lucking out after a safety car. Does it make up for a career of mediocrity? No.

Button is a better driver than Sato. Nothing as far as results are concerned disputes this.

[Valve Bounce]

Just saw a news item on tv and Button saying he'd heard the news just 2 hours prior, he looked stunned as did those around him. I feel for the team as they join thousands of other people around the world who find themselves (even if temporarlily) redundant at Christmas time. At least the team will be spared from that poor excuse for an F1 car in 2009.

My heart bleats for the: mehehehehe!!!!!!!!!!

Now they now how the guys in Super Aguri felt. Like the Russians say:" toughski shyteski!!"

[CNR]

can honda froce him to race indycar ?
it would all depend on what was in his contract and if it was for honda f1 or honda

[ArrowsFA1]

can honda froce him to race indycar ?
Who's to say the future of Honda in Indy car is any more secure than in F1 :dozey:

[Valve Bounce]

can honda froce him to race indycar ?
it would all depend on what was in his contract and if it was for honda f1 or honda

No more than they can force the guy to race in Moto.

[CNR]

Who's to say the future of Honda in Indy car is any more secure than in F1 :dozey:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20081206/SPORTS0107/812060438/1052/SPORTS01


Honda's decision to withdraw from Formula One will have no bearing on its participation in the Indy Racing League, according to a statement released Friday by the company's U.S. motor sports arm.

[IceWizard]

If Honda don't find a buyer then it looks highly likely that Button will be out of a drive in '09. Although I wouldn't rate him as one of the top 5 drivers, I still think that he could be a world champion if in a top team. How the likes of Piquet, now possibly Sato, can deserve drives ahead of Button is beyond me. If I were Flavio I would be looking at the situation with interest.

[trumperZ06]

Who's to say the future of Honda in Indy car is any more secure than in F1 :dozey:

:) Mike,

Racing in Formula One can turn a Large Fortune into a small fortune, in a hurry.

No comparision in costs running F-1 vs. Indy Car.


:D Honda provides the engines in Indy Car...

and gets $$$ PAID $$$ for them.

I think Honda will remain in Indy Car for the next year or two...
until new engine regulations come out.

:dozey: Now... will Honda/Acura remain in ALMS moving up to LMP 1 in 2009....

not sure...

That class requires a $$$ BUNCH $$$ of MONEY !!!

Trumper

[markabilly]

Who's to say the future of Honda in Indy car is any more secure than in F1 :dozey:


I beleive some if not all teams pay for the engines, plus since they are not like trying to stay out of last place in the series, they do get more bang for the buck in terms of ads (and nothing like having a massive audience as in F1 to advertise your incompetence-not really a good thing)
and manufacturesrs other than the old days of enzo ferrari-they do not really do this because they love the sport---they are expecting a return $$$$$

OTOH. I was shocked to see Honda do this so abruptly....and who is to say that honda will not do the same in Indy as well

if I were red bull, ross brawn is someone I would want

[ioan]

Let me put my argument for Button this way-

How can a driver with 15 podium finishes and 3 pole positions be considered to be 'pants'?

He might have had better days, but now he's pants. Rubens kicked him all the way this season, and Rubens isn't at the top of his game already for some time.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Jenson isn't pants, but he certainly seemed to lack motivation this season.

If 2008 turns out to be his last hurrah in the sport, then it'll have been a disappointing end to a once-promising career.

[Hondo]

I'm sure Rubens is secretly amused by the poetic justice of the situation his "former" team now find themselves in.

[Valve Bounce]

I'm sure Rubens is secretly amused by the poetic justice of the situation his "former" team now find themselves in.
I'm sure Aguri is openly amused by the poetic justice of Honda's demise. Had Honda not pulled the plug on Super Aguri , they could still have "remained" in F1 through Super Aguri on a shoestring budget without infuriating HONDA shareholders with their extravagance. What goes round, comes round - it's called Karma. Now, bunsen is toast!!

Button testing for Toro Rosso?

[Triumph]

Fingers crossed for Jenson having a bit of luck in this fiasco. He has far more ability than his recent cars have allowed him to show.

Maybe he'll get his chance again and build on his performance of 2004. I hope so.

[Bezza]

Self Inflicted. I believe in Karma.

The guy is a great driver. He has proven it in the past. However, he makes bad decisions in terms of which team to drive for - which is his own fault. The whole Williams/BAR debate was farcical, and sticking with Honda has now backfired.

However, he is one of the top 5 drivers in the field, and deserves a crack with a decent car. Whether he gets that chance is questionable. To mention Sato in the same breath is a joke, that guy has had more chances than Man Utd v Accrington Stanley, and yet still is linked with drives! He has a lot of sponsorship to offer.

[Bezza]

Could be a drive at Red Bull for Button if Webber's leg doesn't heal in time / he is not quick enough on his return.

[Knock-on]

Don't be joking mate - performance-wise Button didn't smoke Trulli, far from that. ;) And the amount of Jenson's points in 2005 was 37, if that makes any difference. :) And to clarify facts, in 2003 Sato drove only 1 race.

I think he was doing much better until they knew he was moving ;)

You are right about the 2005 points bit. Don't know where that typo came from. My bad.

[Valve Bounce]

Could be a drive at Red Bull for Button if Webber's leg doesn't heal in time / he is not quick enough on his return.

I really don't know which of your posts to respond to. This is clutching at straws; why would any team hire bunsen part time for a couple of races? Oh! I forgot - he is one of the top 5 drivers in F1.

The mind boggles :crazy:

[MrJan]

I really don't know which of your posts to respond to. This is clutching at straws; why would any team hire bunsen part time for a couple of races? Oh! I forgot - he is one of the top 5 drivers in F1.

The mind boggles :crazy:

How many races has Mark won again? ;)

[Valve Bounce]

How many races has Mark won again? ;)

Oh! I forgot - bunsen has won a race and is in line for multiple WDC's so that should give him a chance to replace Mark for a race or two in case Mark's leg takes a bit longer than expected to heal.

Yeah!! Right!!

[MrJan]

Oh! I forgot - bunsen has won a race and is in line for multiple WDC's so that should give him a chance to replace Mark for a race or two in case Mark's leg takes a bit longer than expected to heal.

Yeah!! Right!!

Just saying that it isn't that ridiculous to think that Jenson might get a drive, he might not be a WDC but he's still a solid driver.

[CNR]

no drive for button if prodrive take over


The 56-year-old was previously in charge of the erstwhile BAR-Honda outfit from 2002 until it gained ‘works' status in 2004 – though he fell out with lead driver Jenson Button (http://www.crash.net/gpa/driver~driver_id~11646.htm) before leaving – and his independent Prodrive operation was close to joining the grand prix grid this year before the customer car row halted its bid in its tracks.

[Valve Bounce]

Just saying that it isn't that ridiculous to think that Jenson might get a drive, ..................

As a replacement for an injured driver for a couple of races? I'm sure bunsen would be thrilled with that idea. :rolleyes:

[CNR]

redbull yes
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/172523-0/button_wouldnt_need_toro_rosso_audition.html
Formula 1 » Button 'wouldn't need' Toro Rosso audition.

Jenson Button's hopes of remaining in F1 in 2009 following Honda'shttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/172523-0/button_wouldnt_need_toro_rosso_audition.html#) shock withdrawal from the sport have been boosted, after Scuderia Toro Rosso suggested he would 'not need an audition' if he wished to join them next year.

[jens]

I think he was doing much better until they knew he was moving ;)


Yes, Button may have been doing a bit better in the beginning due to the reason that Trulli was new to the team and still adapting plus reliability factor enabled JB to shine too. In those two early races, where Button scored two 4ths in a row and everyone was amazed, Trulli was forced to retire with car failures in both of them - and in one of them he was actually in front of JB.

[Knock-on]

Yes, Button may have been doing a bit better in the beginning due to the reason that Trulli was new to the team and still adapting plus reliability factor enabled JB to shine too. In those two early races, where Button scored two 4ths in a row and everyone was amazed, Trulli was forced to retire with car failures in both of them - and in one of them he was actually in front of JB.


Come on Jens. Go easy on me. This was quite a time ago and to take individual races as an example is stretching it a little.

Luck tends to even out over a season. Not always but usually.

[Bezza]

I really don't know which of your posts to respond to. This is clutching at straws; why would any team hire bunsen part time for a couple of races? Oh! I forgot - he is one of the top 5 drivers in F1.

The mind boggles :crazy:

Because Webber might be unable to race and Button is a free driver who is extremely good - better than Webber in fact. Surely the clue was in the question?

[rabf1]

"I also think Flav should re think his decision on Piquet in the light of Honda's demise. Button although I do not think he is world champion material, is a good solid points scorer when given a reliable good car. "

I agree. Especially since Fred may well move to Ferrari next year.

[CNR]

"I also think Flav should re think his decision on Piquet in the light of Honda's demise. Button although I do not think he is world champion material, is a good solid points scorer when given a reliable good car. "

button had 2 years at Renault (Benetton) in his first year all he got was 2 points (second year in f1) "he should have been droped at the end of that year"and 14 points in his second year at Renault so why should some one that got more points in his first year (19 points) be droped for button?

[Valve Bounce]

Because Webber might be unable to race and Button is a free driver who is extremely good - better than Webber in fact. Surely the clue was in the question?

I just didn't think an Ace F1 driver like bunsen would be offering his services to a second rate team just in case their driver's leg might still be a little dodgy in three months time.

I don't remember Senna or Prost ever doing that.

Your clue was just too well hidden for me :(

[Valve Bounce]

"I also think Flav should re think his decision on Piquet in the light of Honda's demise. Button although I do not think he is world champion material, is a good solid points scorer when given a reliable good car. "

I agree. Especially since Fred may well move to Ferrari next year.

Maybe the Piquet name has a higher profile than Button, and Piquet has a lower salary demand and brings more money to the team. He is also no threat to Fonzo - and that's a big consideration. I mean we don't want Mr bunsen thrashing Fonzo on the track now, do we??

[PSfan]

I really don't know which of your posts to respond to. This is clutching at straws; why would any team hire bunsen part time for a couple of races? Oh! I forgot - he is one of the top 5 drivers in F1.

The mind boggles :crazy:

Actually Valve, depending on how you read the post...

Mark has been claiming he will make it back into the car in time for when the new car is ready for testing, so making it to the grid for the opening race shouldn't be in to much doubt...

Because Button is still an asset to the Honda team while its "for sale" I doubt Button will get a chance to look for options for the 2009 season until the team officially folds, which might end up being to short notice to be a logical sub for Webber should he not be ready for the first couple races...

But should the Honda team fold, and Webber gets his butt handed to him by not only Vettal, but also the drivers over at Team Torro, then its within reason that Webber could be sent packing 1/2 way threw the season and replaced by free agent Button...

[woody2goody]

button had 2 years at Renault (Benetton) in his first year all he got was 2 points (second year in f1) "he should have been droped at the end of that year"and 14 points in his second year at Renault so why should some one that got more points in his first year (19 points) be droped for button?

Ok, this is why:

1. The 2001 Benetton was a terrible car (as bad as the Honda) for over half a season, his team-mate Fisi (in his 6th season of F1) only got 7 or 8 points himself. In 2000 Button scored 12 points in his first season, in a car which was similar in performance to the 08 Renault over the whole season.

2. Button scored 12, 2 and 14 points in his first 3 years in F1, but that was under the old 10-6-4-3-2-1 system, so your comparisons of points totals are largely irrelevant.

3. In '02 the Renault was the 4th best car, but it was by a big big margin as they only accrued 23 points compared to nearly 70 for the third placed team McLaren. Trulli also scored only 9 points.

4. Button has beaten Trulli, Villeneuve, Sato (twice, comprehensively) and Barrichello (twice) in his career. He has only been beaten by R. Schumacher (2000, rookie season), Fisichella (in the peak of his powers), and Barrichello (last year).

5. Piquet was good towards the end of the season but his first half of the season was a joke. Out of 18 starts, Piquet retired 9 times, with all but 2 or 3 being due to crashes or spins of sorts.

6. Button hardly ever crashes, doesn't make many mistakes, is consistent and can win races given the right car. Yes he probably doesn't have the ultimate pace of Alonso or Raikkonen, but in my opinion could match Hamilton or Massa in the same car for pure pace. This doesn't take into account drivers' other tendencies such as Kimi's apparent laziness or Hamilton's aggression.

However the thing is, it's very unlikely Button would want to sign for Renault anyway after being unceremoniously thrown out of the team to make way for Alonso. Also, there is a strong chance that Button would be forced to play number 2 anyway so this is an unlikely proposition.

I hope Honda does find a buyer because if the car is as good as Ross Brawn says it is, then Jenson and Rubens would have been up near the front. It would be a great shame if both of them are missing from the grid next year.

[Knock-on]

I think Dave will be back at Prodrive, err, I mean Honda.

That being said, will Button and DR be able to put the past behind them? I think so because they both now know what they need to do. Dave wont stitch him up and Jenson has matured a lot.

[Valve Bounce]

..............or maybe Dave will hire Jacques.

[woody2goody]

..............or maybe Dave will hire Jacques.

Didn't DR fall out with Jacques and not Button? Or was it both of them?

Could be quite fun if Jacques does come back and the car is good though...

[AndyL]

If Honda don't find a buyer then I guess there's always the F1 retirement home of DTM. Actually I think I'd quite like to see Bunsen in DTM. It would certainly boost the attendance figures at the Brands round.

[Knock-on]

Didn't DR fall out with Jacques and not Button? Or was it both of them?

Could be quite fun if Jacques does come back and the car is good though...

Jenson had a performance bonus which he blew out of the water and Dave wasn't too keen on stumping up.

That was why Jenson was furious and wanted to get out of the contract to go to Williams.

[ioan]

How many races has Mark won again? ;)

One less than Button. :D

[ioan]

4. Button has beaten Trulli, Villeneuve, Sato (twice, comprehensively) and Barrichello (twice) in his career. He has only been beaten by R. Schumacher (2000, rookie season), Fisichella (in the peak of his powers), and Barrichello (last year).

What an achievement. :rolleyes:



6. Button hardly ever crashes, doesn't make many mistakes, is consistent and can win races given the right car.

I suppose there is plenty of proof to that too, could you point us where to look for it?! :laugh:




However the thing is, it's very unlikely Button would want to sign for Renault anyway after being unceremoniously thrown out of the team to make way for Alonso. Also, there is a strong chance that Button would be forced to play number 2 anyway so this is an unlikely proposition.

You bet, why would Button agree to drive in a top team? After all he isone of the best so only McLaren and Ferrari should ever dream about having his services. :yawn:




I hope Honda does find a buyer because if the car is as good as Ross Brawn says it is, then Jenson and Rubens would have been up near the front. It would be a great shame if both of them are missing from the grid next year.

Ever thought that Brawn might be hyping the car in order to find a buyer?
he is stating that their car will be as good as the BMW next season, all this while the BMW has been testing with changed aero and KERS and the Honda it's pretty much immaterial.

[stevie_gerrard]

I honestly don't think we will see button back next season, i don't think there is enough interest in him, and i don't think he proved himself enough last season to get himself a drive. Yeh the car was terribly awful, but even with a terrible car, you need to show signs of good racing quality, and i dont think he did it often enough, too many mid-grid finishes. Even Rubens had a few scoring positions and threatened a couple of times to finish in the points again, whereas Button was stuck in 2nd gear all season.

It does hurt me to say that, because i would like to see Button back and in good racing form, i hope he does get another drive, this year or in following years, but could this be the end of Button? I sincerely hope not.

[Knock-on]

I honestly don't think we will see button back next season, i don't think there is enough interest in him, and i don't think he proved himself enough last season to get himself a drive. Yeh the car was terribly awful, but even with a terrible car, you need to show signs of good racing quality, and i dont think he did it often enough, too many mid-grid finishes. Even Rubens had a few scoring positions and threatened a couple of times to finish in the points again, whereas Button was stuck in 2nd gear all season.

It does hurt me to say that, because i would like to see Button back and in good racing form, i hope he does get another drive, this year or in following years, but could this be the end of Button? I sincerely hope not.

I hope he has a drive. I still think there's a better than even chance that the ex-Honda team will be on the grid.

The car needs to be reasonable though and then we'll see how quick Jenson still is.

[jens]

If Honda don't find a buyer then I guess there's always the F1 retirement home of DTM. Actually I think I'd quite like to see Bunsen in DTM. It would certainly boost the attendance figures at the Brands round.

There are already loads of Brits in DTM, one Button wouldn't make much of a difference. In 2008 we saw di Resta, Green, Paffett, Jarvis, Stoddart and Legge - that's six of them and just one less than Germans!

By the way, can someone explain the recent tendency, why do the majority of British future racing hopes end at DTM?! :crazy:

[BDunnell]

By the way, can someone explain the recent tendency, why do the majority of British future racing hopes end at DTM?! :crazy:

Several of the Brits who've gone to DTM already had links with Mercedes, if I remember rightly, though I can't say for certain whom.

[jens]

Several of the Brits who've gone to DTM already had links with Mercedes, if I remember rightly, though I can't say for certain whom.

About di Resta, Green and Paffett it should be true indeed.

It seems a lot of British future racing hopefuls join McLaren-Mercedes junior drivers' programme and if they fail to have a smooth path to F1 (like Hamilton), their destiny is to end up in DTM, which is the other main series with significant Mercedes interest. I still think for example Jamie Green could have been quite impressive in open-wheel-racing (Euro F3 champion in 2004), but went to join DTM in 2005.

[BDunnell]

About di Resta, Green and Paffett it should be true indeed.

It seems a lot of British future racing hopefuls join McLaren-Mercedes junior drivers' programme and if they fail to have a smooth path to F1 (like Hamilton), their destiny is to end up in DTM, which is the other main series with significant Mercedes interest. I still think for example Jamie Green could have been quite impressive in open-wheel-racing (Euro F3 champion in 2004), but went to join DTM in 2005.

The thing about going into touring cars is that it's a bit of a dead end, unless you want to have a good touring car career a la a Schneider or a Tarquini. Given that the DTM is seen as the pinnacle of touring cars, it does make me a bit surprised that some younger people go into it, because it cuts them off from the open-wheel environment and means they have nowhere better to go in touring cars once their time in DTM is over.

[woody2goody]

What an achievement. :rolleyes:

Well there are some decent drivers there including a former World Champion.


I suppose there is plenty of proof to that too, could you point us where to look for it?! :laugh:

Out of 154 Grand Prix starts, Button has only crashed out of 4 races and has only spun off 8 times. This says to me he doesn't make many mistakes. In a nutshell, he has retired from 52 races and only 12 of those are due to driver error. This is by pure statistics, but from watching the races, Jenson seems to make less mistakes than most of the other drivers.

http://www.f1gamers.com/f1/f1stats/driver.php?d=Jenson%20Button



You bet, why would Button agree to drive in a top team? After all he is one of the best so only McLaren and Ferrari should ever dream about having his services. :yawn:

Renault didn't do him any favours by sacking him in favour of Alonso in '02/'03. I honestly believe Jenson wouldn't go back to Renault. If I am proved wrong then fair enough.

Oh, by the way Ioan, think of the same reason why Alonso won't drive for McLaren again, or maybe likewise Kimi won't do the same? Apply this to Button and there you have it!

of course Jenson is one of the best in my eyes he's British after all I'd never put another driver above him :rolleyes:



Ever thought that Brawn might be hyping the car in order to find a buyer?
he is stating that their car will be as good as the BMW next season, all this while the BMW has been testing with changed aero and KERS and the Honda it's pretty much immaterial.

This is possible. Most of us would guess at the Honda maybe being a top 5 car. Anything else would be a bonus for them to be honest. Maybe the comparison with BMW is a good one because both teams gave up on 2008 effectively at the same time.

[Hawkmoon]

I hope he has a drive. I still think there's a better than even chance that the ex-Honda team will be on the grid.

The car needs to be reasonable though and then we'll see how quick Jenson still is.

He wasn't quick enough to beat Barrichello in '08. I think that rules him out of contention for a drive in the top half of the grid. STR or Force India would probably give him a drive, assuming they aren't looking for a pay driver, which is a big assumption. Even then they'd be giving him a drive based on reputation alone becuase his form the last 2 seasons has been average at best.

Think about it. An off-contract Alonso didn't exactly have teams lining up for his signature. What chance has Button got?

[555-04Q2]

Who would want Button :?: I used to talk him up as one of the future stars, but I'm sad to say, he's just another mid-runner. I doubt we will see him on the grid in 2009.

[ioan]

Out of 154 Grand Prix starts, Button has only crashed out of 4 races and has only spun off 8 times. This says to me he doesn't make many mistakes. In a nutshell, he has retired from 52 races and only 12 of those are due to driver error. This is by pure statistics, but from watching the races, Jenson seems to make less mistakes than most of the other drivers.

If you are driving slow enough than it's a bit difficult to spin off. WDC's did spin off at a higher rate than JB but were also succesfull at a way higher rate than him.



Renault didn't do him any favours by sacking him in favour of Alonso in '02/'03. I honestly believe Jenson wouldn't go back to Renault. If I am proved wrong then fair enough.

Oh, by the way Ioan, think of the same reason why Alonso won't drive for McLaren again, or maybe likewise Kimi won't do the same? Apply this to Button and there you have it!

Are you seriously comaparing JB's team chosing possibilities with those of Kimi and Fernando?! LOL



of course Jenson is one of the best in my eyes he's British after all I'd never put another driver above him :rolleyes:

Well, at least you acknowledge it! ;)

[woody2goody]

Are you seriously comaparing JB's team chosing possibilities with those of Kimi and Fernando?! LOL

You know what I mean ;) Kimi and Fernando probably won't want to ever drive for McLaren again. I appreciate they can probably get more jobs than Jenson, but Button will at least go somewhere where he is more valued than he appeared to be at Renault.

Of course the Alonso gamble paid off for Renault in great style and they did a great job with him then, and then again last season. However Button has shown his potential and true speed over his career like Alonso. Not in the same fashion (i.e. winning 2 titles), but I'm sure Jenson is better than what he showed last year.

Barrichello (as good as he is) was hanging on for dear life in F1 last year, and Button was understandably annoyed at having the second rubbish car in a row in the space of two years.

I just hope Buton gets a go in a decent car at some point. If he fails then I will admit (like I did with Fisichella) that he is not an elite driver. Until there is proof that he can't win consistently in a top car then I will still support him and wish him well.