Mumbai

[Roamy]

well I expected to come on here and see 5 yards of posting about this horrible event. I feel very sorry for all who lost loved ones.

So it looks as though we will keep our nose out of this one so I want to hear when the Euros are going to start taking care of this crap.

Now that you have let everyone into your country I expect this events to get more frequent and more devistating. We are expecting a major event in this country according to the experts - probably a chemical bomb.

i hate to say it but I think as these attacks get bigger and bigger at a point we are going to see Global Cleasing which will make Bosnia looks like a weekend march to walmart. Another thing I can tell you is that if you think Obama won't pull the trigger you are sadly mistaken.

Now I expect Israel to take out Iran's nuke sites before Bush leaves office. I actually thought it may be in the first half of this month.

so lets hear from the Euros - or did they threaten to cut off your oil

[Storm]

Its been a week since the Mumbai attacks...and it was a horrible thing :(

I too was surprised not to see any thread about it earlier (although I did not want to start one while the siege was on)

I have been to many of the places which were attacked (I lived in Mumbai for about 5 years)...especially the Leopold Cafe for a cold beer and the CST station/Gateway of India...and to see such terrible killings there made me very angry.

[gadjo_dilo]

I wasn't surprised at the lack of the thread. Nobody cares of what's happening in such countries. If it had happen in a western democracy or in Israel the length of the topic would have entered the Guiness book.


Now that you have let everyone into your country I expect this events to get more frequent and more devistating. We are expecting a major event in this country according to the experts - probably a chemical bomb.

Give me a break. Before thinking of such appocalyptical scripts remember that your own country mingled its tail in lots of international events.

[Storm]

Even if someone sneezes in Palestine its in the news.

gadjo, to be fair this attack got a fair amount of international media coverage atleast and the fact that Condoleeza Rice was here yesterday speaks about the fear of our response towards a neighbouring country (which seems to be linked to many terrorist attacks)

Although it was an attack not just on my country but also 25 foreign nationals (including 8 Israelis, few American and British nationals) died.

[gadjo_dilo]

I didn't mean media coverage ( BTW, I was surprised to see that a dispute between 2 of our senators that ended with a glass of water being thrown in the face of one of them has made the news all over the world- CNN included ) or the official statements of most of the countries. I meant the interest of the average citizens like those who attend this forum.

[Tomi]

do you indians think this has something to do with the border dispute in Kashmir,
or that it has nothing to do with that?

[Camelopard]

Why are people suprised? After all we (the west) helped set up and finance the very people/organisations that are perpetrating these acts of voilence.
All this stuff including 9/11 stems from the west's support of the Mujahidin in Afghanistan and their war against the Soviets.
So the initial aim was realised, that is the breakdown of the Soviet Union, however we have come to reap what we have sowed.
Whilst in Jordan earlier this year I spoke at length with with a Pakistani Army Officer who was studying at a military college near Madaba who confirmed this. He stated that the west's support for anti-Soviet action in this region had created a monster in the refugee camps in Pakistan that could not be put back in it's box and now we were all paying for it.
He was someone who had served on the front line in Kashmir and also along the border with Afghanistan so I actually respect his point of view.

[J4MIE]

Of course it's a terrible thing to happen, tragic for everyone involved, and the stories that are being told about it are just horrific :( But what can be done to stop this sort of thing? I honestly think that if there are these sort of people out there, there isn't much you can do about it....... unfortunately.

[SOD]

well I expected to come on here and see 5 yards of posting about this horrible event. I feel very sorry for all who lost loved ones.

So it looks as though we will keep our nose out of this one so I want to hear when the Euros are going to start taking care of this crap.

Now that you have let everyone into your country I expect this events to get more frequent and more devistating. We are expecting a major event in this country according to the experts - probably a chemical bomb.

i hate to say it but I think as these attacks get bigger and bigger at a point we are going to see Global Cleasing which will make Bosnia looks like a weekend march to walmart. Another thing I can tell you is that if you think Obama won't pull the trigger you are sadly mistaken.

Now I expect Israel to take out Iran's nuke sites before Bush leaves office. I actually thought it may be in the first half of this month.

so lets hear from the Euros - or did they threaten to cut off your oil

fear the fear

What's the 'global cleansing' you speak of? The genocidal maniac speaketh! just as well your holocaust fantasies are kept within your brain :laugh: Finished blowing up the Arabs on Tom Clancy II for your XBOX?

[harsha]

it's time the Indian Government grew some "balls" and attack Pakistan.

Enough is Enough......If this had happened in any other country and proof was found of terrorists operating from a neighbouring country,that country would have been ********

As usual,the Indian Government will back off its aggressive rhetoric in favour of minority appeasements and try to negotiate with a failed country like Pakistan...

To those people who seem to think that a stable Pakistan is better than a unstable Pakistan,I say that it's better to not have a Pakistan in the first place

[BDunnell]

To those people who seem to think that a stable Pakistan is better than a unstable Pakistan,I say that it's better to not have a Pakistan in the first place

I think that's an appalling attitude to take. The country exists, like it or not. One couldn't just take their nationality away from the people of Pakistan. They have the right to be Pakistani just as we all have the right to be the nationalities we are. And quite how subsuming Pakistan into some other country would assist in stabilising it, I have no idea.

Thankfully wiser voices have prevailed in the UK, in relation to Northern Ireland. This was a similar situation in many ways, yet it was dealt with in the end by negotiation and compromise - to many, this was unacceptable and unpalatable (understandably so), yet those who called for it have been proved right.

[J4MIE]

it's time the Indian Government grew some "balls" and attack Pakistan.

Enough is Enough......If this had happened in any other country and proof was found of terrorists operating from a neighbouring country,that country would have been ********

As usual,the Indian Government will back off its aggressive rhetoric in favour of minority appeasements and try to negotiate with a failed country like Pakistan...

To those people who seem to think that a stable Pakistan is better than a unstable Pakistan,I say that it's better to not have a Pakistan in the first place

Sorry but I think reacting like that would be asking for trouble......look at Afghanistan post 9/11...... This is not the time to react. As BDunnell says it has to be down to negotiation. Sure, not everybody will be happy about it but surely it's worth it for peace? Wars don't help anybody really.

[Roamy]

I think that's an appalling attitude to take. The country exists, like it or not. One couldn't just take their nationality away from the people of Pakistan. They have the right to be Pakistani just as we all have the right to be the nationalities we are. And quite how subsuming Pakistan into some other country would assist in stabilising it, I have no idea.

Thankfully wiser voices have prevailed in the UK, in relation to Northern Ireland. This was a similar situation in many ways, yet it was dealt with in the end by negotiation and compromise - to many, this was unacceptable and unpalatable (understandably so), yet those who called for it have been proved right.

No Ireland was a civil issue - this one is international which brings more into play. The question is what if one of these attacks in the future claim millions of innocent lives. Is the west just going to say "oh well there is those kind of people out there" Or as Harsha implies how close are we to seeing major scorched earth in some parts of the world. I for one think that these attacks will continue and only get more devastating which will in turn create a very serious safety issue for peaceful muslims living in western countries.

[Roamy]

Sorry but I think reacting like that would be asking for trouble......look at Afghanistan post 9/11...... This is not the time to react. As BDunnell says it has to be down to negotiation. Sure, not everybody will be happy about it but surely it's worth it for peace? Wars don't help anybody really.

Jamie - I don't think history supports your statements. Although negotiation is certainly worth the first try. Post 9/11 in my opinion has stopped many attacks that I suspect was on the drawing board.

[BDunnell]

No Ireland was a civil issue - this one is international which brings more into play.

Ireland certainly had a major international dimension, in terms of the supplies of arms and funding to the IRA.


Is the west just going to say "oh well there is those kind of people out there"

I see nothing wrong with that statement, because it is absolutely true and there's not a lot you can do to stop such behaviour completely. This is why the sort of security paranoia experienced in the USA, and to some extent in Britain, is unnecessary. Very sadly, as has always been the case, there will continue to be such attacks and innocent people will continue to be killed. The toll can be minimised but never prevented in its entirety. Extreme measures are not called for.

[Tomi]

As BDunnell says it has to be down to negotiation. Sure, not everybody will be happy about it but surely it's worth it for peace? Wars don't help anybody really.

Agree, also the only way to get a peace that last, is truh compromises when both feel that they win, or loose little as possible.

[TOgoFASTER]

Pakistan has been known as a unstable state for quite some time.
It's beyond me why the now extinguished Musharraf government was placated to the degree it had been in the last eight years or so with huge amounts of "funding" and arms deals that have brought nothing from that government but appeasement to the radical fringes in the tribal areas. Or why those appeasements to the Masharraf government continued in light of the very facts. An ill advised and poorly carried out foreign policy that has been repeated over many decades that also by the way had to placate India at the same time. Nuclear know how for Mangos.

As far as Pakistan and India? There is no love lost between the two and those mutual atrocities have been going on for a long, long time and is something that they have to want to work out a solution for.
Religion and the resulting ignorance and blind hate are the root of evil.

[TOgoFASTER]

We are expecting a major event in this country according to the experts - probably a chemical bomb.


This is not the way it was expressed at all... "The commission believes that unless the world community acts decisively and with great urgency, it is more likely than not that a weapon of mass destruction will be used in a terrorist attack somewhere in the world by the end of 2013." The World at Risk report

I have no doubt that the Obama administration will take heed of the report and work with the world on a worldwide problem and to reduce those risks without using thoughtless preemptive warfare/WMD's first and sentient reasoning as an after thought.

[harsha]

As far as Pakistan and India? There is no love lost between the two and those mutual atrocities have been going on for a long, long time and is something that they have to want to work out a solution for.
Religion and the resulting ignorance and blind hate are the root of evil.

find me conclusive proof where India is shown to have started any war with Pakistan.

I'm not saying that the Indians are angels....far from it,you'd prob never find a more corrupt pieces of anywhere else in the world.

I have nothing against Islam,staying in Hyderabad where the population is atleast 50% Muslim and i have a lot of Muslim Friends.I however have issues with the way Islam is interpreted by incompetents to suit their particular needs.

The only way the peace process can go forward is IF PAKISTAN HANDS OVER THE 20 MOST WANTED PERSONS TO INDIA...which include a person who was freed at the Kandahar Hijacking incident and Dawood Ibhrahim,a Indian National wanted for involvement in Bombay Blasts.

I find it amazing to believe that some of the comments coming from forumers still talk about negotiations...well,there has been 50+ years of negotiation(with the odd dispute thrown in between)......

However the major issue is not Pakistan....It has to be the intelligence and the security..The Country's Border first has to be secured against any attacks before contemplating any action on Pakistan

[harsha]

Ireland certainly had a major international dimension, in terms of the supplies of arms and funding to the IRA.



I see nothing wrong with that statement, because it is absolutely true and there's not a lot you can do to stop such behaviour completely. This is why the sort of security paranoia experienced in the USA, and to some extent in Britain, is unnecessary. Very sadly, as has always been the case, there will continue to be such attacks and innocent people will continue to be killed. The toll can be minimised but never prevented in its entirety. Extreme measures are not called for.

yeah you guys are probably safer living there where there are lesser chances of a Terrorist Strike whereas I have to endure Attacks/Bomb Blasts in which i might be a victim anyday.It's probably a lot easier saying it for you sitting in the relative safety of your place

[BDunnell]

yeah you guys are probably safer living there where there are lesser chances of a Terrorist Strike whereas I have to endure Attacks/Bomb Blasts in which i might be a victim anyday.It's probably a lot easier saying it for you sitting in the relative safety of your place

You seem to forget that Britain lived under threat of IRA bombings for many years. That didn't change the average Brit's way of life and it didn't bring about the sort of paranoia that's seen so often nowadays.

[TOgoFASTER]

find me conclusive proof where India is shown to have started any war with Pakistan.

I'm not saying that the Indians are angels....far from it,you'd prob never find a more corrupt pieces of anywhere else in the world.

I have nothing against Islam,staying in Hyderabad where the population is atleast 50% Muslim and i have a lot of Muslim Friends.I however have issues with the way Islam is interpreted by incompetents to suit their particular needs.

The only way the peace process can go forward is IF PAKISTAN HANDS OVER THE 20 MOST WANTED PERSONS TO INDIA...which include a person who was freed at the Kandahar Hijacking incident and Dawood Ibhrahim,a Indian National wanted for involvement in Bombay Blasts.

I find it amazing to believe that some of the comments coming from forumers still talk about negotiations...well,there has been 50+ years of negotiation(with the odd dispute thrown in between)......

However the major issue is not Pakistan....It has to be the intelligence and the security..The Country's Border first has to be secured against any attacks before contemplating any action on Pakistan

I'm not going to even begin with the strife within that has gone on before there was a Pakistan or a Bangladesh for that matter. One can google as needed for the forces,factions,actions involved and the border disputes that still are unresolved remnants.
The interpreted use of religion by those that can gain power from that use is nothing new nor tied to one religion or one sect of a religion. Most Religions are about gaining and holding power for a few over the many by the use of the fear of the unknown and the hate of those that are different, unworthy in their eyes or just disagree.
Could not agree more with your view on border security. Not to say you have to have a fortress built around your nation or civil rights crushed to accomplish a common sense, common goal approach that works on both sides of the border.

[gadjo_dilo]

The question is what if one of these attacks in the future claim millions of innocent lives. .

At the same time a war against any country will also imply the loss of innocent lives ( unless you're cynical enough to call them " collateral victims "). Violence is not a solution.
On the other hand a terrorist attack is unlikely to claim "millions" of lives.

Is the west just going to say "oh well there is those kind of people out there" .
Should the west act like a sort of international gendarmerie? Who entitles it?


I for one think that these attacks will continue and only get more devastating which will in turn create a very serious safety issue for peaceful muslims living in western countries.

I for one think that in order to eliminate a wrong effect you should eliminate the cause.


Enough is Enough......If this had happened in any other country and proof was found of terrorists operating from a neighbouring country,that country would have been ********.
Correction: If this had happened in USA and no matter if proof was or wasn't found of terrorists operating from a neighbouring country,that country would have been ********. :laugh:

[harsha]

Correction: If this had happened in USA and no matter if proof was or wasn't found of terrorists operating from a neighbouring country,that country would have been ********. :laugh:

:D true,and the country doesn't have to be neighboring too...just look up Iraq in the Atlas

[Eki]

At the same time a war against any country will also imply the loss of innocent lives ( unless you're cynical enough to call them " collateral victims "). Violence is not a solution.
On the other hand a terrorist attack is unlikely to claim "millions" of lives.


True. Assassination of just one man, Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was used as an excuse to start the WW I where 40 million people lost their lives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand

The Kristallnacht started when just one man, Ernst von Rath was murdered by just one Jew:

http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Ernst+von+Rath

The "War against Terrorism" started when just about 3000 people were killed by just 11 men and since tens or even hundreds of thousands of people have died.

I just wish that Indians remain level headed and won't do anything stupid like start a war with Pakistan.

[Roamy]

the price for terrorism is way to low - up the ante big time

[anthonyvop]

The Kristallnacht started when just one man, Ernst von Rath was murdered by just one Jew:.
Please tell me you are not blamming Kristallnacht on the Jews.




The "War against Terrorism" started when just about 3000 people were killed by just 11 men and since tens or even hundreds of thousands of people have died.

But those few thousands died at the hand of their own people! US colatteral deaths are quite low.

[Eki]

Please tell me you are not blamming Kristallnacht on the Jews.
I'm not, but the Germans were in 1938.





But those few thousands died at the hand of their own people! US colatteral deaths are quite low.
Dead is dead and stays dead. It doesn't matter who or what killed you.

[Jag_Warrior]

:D true,and the country doesn't have to be neighboring too...just look up Iraq in the Atlas

Like George "Nukyuler" Bush could have found Iraq, or any other country outside of North America, on an Atlas about that time. :dozey: Led by his neocon masters, our simple minded President did what most dumb, confused beasts do: react with violence.

Mexican narco-terrorists are causing us (in the U.S.) many more and longer term problems right now than Al Qaeda ever has or ever will (IMO). But on a politicial board that I occasionally post on, when I spoke about the Mexican drug cartels' links to FARC, and their links to international terroism, over three years ago, no one cared... no one understood.

I'm not sure if it's unique to us, but I think Americans do have a tendency to get caught up in the issue of the moment. And until we are told by the media that it is the issue of the moment, we don't see it as such. We know about O.J. Simpson, Britney Spears or that wh*re in Florida who murdered her baby and then went clubbing the next day. We don't know how many people were butchered in Darfur today. And we stopped focusing on Mumbai as soon as the last gunman was captured. So I agree with Fousto, in that there should have been more postings about Mumbai here. Since two of the Americans killed there were from my home state, perhaps I should have posted earlier. I admit that I'm self-centered too. Of late, I've been more focused on whether the American automotive industry is going to implode and what affect that will have on me and my company.

I offer belated well wishes to the survivors in Mumbai. And prayers go out to those who lost their lives in this tragedy.

[Eki]

I admit that I'm self-centered too.
There's nothing wrong being self-centered, it's human and we all are, as long as you're aware of being self-centered. Awareness helps us to take a broader perspective and avoid doing hasty stupid things.

[Roamy]

good post Jag. There were some very close misses for americans in Mumbai.
We were quite lucky. I am telling you now that these fools are going to continue until one day soon it will become "Open Season" for Americans and many Muslims living in rogue countries. In addition I suspect many in this country innocent as they are will become victims of hate crimes which could run out of control. The big bio plan if it ever makes it her will be a major mistake for Muslims world wide. As I have said before Muslims need to police their society. The good need to weed out the bad. Something very ugly is coming but they keep pushing for it.