Ken Block's day off

[turves]

http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id=204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0


The fun starts at 1 minute 10...

[Simmi]

That probably sets the trend for the next Colin McRae video game I fear.

[jonas_mcrae]

great looking Impreza, nice wing and kit, and great noice. You could think is a WRC

[RAS007]

That probably sets the trend for the next Colin McRae video game I fear.

+1

Ken Block is a frigging moron. Someone needs to tell him that he is not a rally driver.

[Bazza2541]

I wonder how many takes it took to shoot that?

[Daniel]

+1

Ken Block is a frigging moron. Someone needs to tell him that he is not a rally driver.

Agreed. THe fool even has a site which has racing in it rather than rallying. People who call rallying racing should be shot then shot again

[Simmi]

I wonder how many takes it took to shoot that?

Exactly what I was thinking. I cant be bothered looking at it again but I suppose there would be tyre marks everywhere you would think. Either way it isn't rallying.

[SubaruNorway]

Exactly what I was thinking. I cant be bothered looking at it again but I suppose there would be tyre marks everywhere you would think. Either way it isn't rallying.

It's called gymkhana ;) It got in all 2mill views in about one week, so i think you are the minorety. Of course it took some takes to get it right, could you have done it any better? Looks cool though.

[RAS007]

It's called gymkhana ;) It got in all 2mill views in about one week, so i think you are the minorety. Of course it took some takes to get it right, could you have done it any better?

Doesn't change the fact that Ken Block is a tw*t!

[Simmi]

It's called gymkhana ;) It got in all 2mill views in about one week, so i think you are the minorety. Of course it took some takes to get it right, could you have done it any better? Looks cool though.

I didn't say I could do any better or really make any significant comment about it.

[jonas_mcrae]

"Ken Block is not a rally driver"
True, sadly nowadays you have to do stuff like what he does (big jumps, snowboarding, laps around america, Gumball or this) to get people's attention, and like it or not he is considered one of the "cool" guys. Much cooler than a lot of people in WRC (not gigi or the likes but way cooler than others) and unfortunately right now "cool" rules. (At least in America) Just tell me what WRC driver has major "cool", youth directed sponsors? Loeb with RedBull perhaps but what else? Abu-Dhabi? come that's not cool

I'm not on Block's side, but I think if it was Solberg or someone like that doing this no one would complain. Loeb has been doing a bunch of stuff on a track and all I've seen is things like "Loeb is so good he can kick ass anywhere"... or "I bet that Loeb given enough time could beat anyone on a track"...

[Daniel]

But Seb doesn't do F1 or GT racing or snowboarding with a rally car and then act like he's rallying or something :mark:

[cannyboy]

Doesn't change the fact that Ken Block is a tw*t!

Please explain why - the man propably attracts more new people to motorsport than anyone else out there.

That video was a work of art, that even non motorsport people find amazing.

That was not supposed to be rallydriving in case you didn't notice.

Rallying is dying a slow death and if people like Ken can raise the profile of the sport, well done to him.

Some of you guys are probably too young to remember when rallying was actually a popular sport.

It's need stunts to bring new blood in, or you can kiss the sport goodbye in a few years.

Perhaps if the WRC promoter got a few WRC stars together to make a video like that, you might have 2 million more fans of the sport.

But the wrc promotors would rather kill the sport by the looks of it.

If you guys were real rally fans, you'd welcome any exposure that could boost the sport. It is in trouble in case you didn't notice.

[Simmi]

Just out of interest is Monster Energy drink available in Europe? I know they sponsor a lot of extreme sports stuff but I suppose if they dont sell their product in Europe there isnt much point lining up a WRC sponsorship.

[jonas_mcrae]

Well I didn't hear any comments at the end of that video saying "yeah this is Rally" but thats no the point, I just think that what they are doing (Block as well as Loeb) is just what their sponsors ask them to do, this is all about publicity and meanwhile they have some fun, big deal! (Loeb loved the F1 thing you could tell)

[Maui J.]

Good on him for making videos like this. There's no harm in it and if it generates interest in the USA, then that can't hurt either.

Those 2 million plus hits can't be a bad thing for your sponsor either.

I've spoken to Ken a number of times at Rally NZ the last couple of years. Very very approachable guy and always makes time to chat. He always finishes his conversation with something like "...thanks for coming out to watch" or "enjoy the rally". He obviously enjoys the sport and has the money to do things like this and his snow jump.

He knows his limits of driving and has always said doing the PWRC is a great way to improve. He made his own money, unlike some with Daddy's handout, and now he's spending it. Go Ken!

[Maui J.]

Please explain why - the man propably attracts more new people to motorsport than anyone else out there.

That video was a work of art, that even non motorsport people find amazing.

That was not supposed to be rallydriving in case you didn't notice.

Rallying is dying a slow death and if people like Ken can raise the profile of the sport, well done to him.

Some of you guys are probably too young to remember when rallying was actually a popular sport.

It's need stunts to bring new blood in, or you can kiss the sport goodbye in a few years.

Perhaps if the WRC promoter got a few WRC stars together to make a video like that, you might have 2 million more fans of the sport.

But the wrc promotors would rather kill the sport by the looks of it.

If you guys were real rally fans, you'd welcome any exposure that could boost the sport. It is in trouble in case you didn't notice.

Well said!

[Josti]

Ken Block treats rally like it's a circus, which makes him the clown.

Nice piece of action though, can't deny that.

[RAS007]

Please explain why - the man propably attracts more new people to motorsport than anyone else out there.

That video was a work of art, that even non motorsport people find amazing.

That was not supposed to be rallydriving in case you didn't notice.

Rallying is dying a slow death and if people like Ken can raise the profile of the sport, well done to him.

Some of you guys are probably too young to remember when rallying was actually a popular sport.

It's need stunts to bring new blood in, or you can kiss the sport goodbye in a few years.

Perhaps if the WRC promoter got a few WRC stars together to make a video like that, you might have 2 million more fans of the sport.

But the wrc promotors would rather kill the sport by the looks of it.

If you guys were real rally fans, you'd welcome any exposure that could boost the sport. It is in trouble in case you didn't notice.

Block is not rasing the profile of rallying, he is raising his own profile. The WRC and rallying overall , is in big trouble I agree, but if Block and his ilk are the future of the sport, then you can keep it.

[Livewireshock]

Ken Block treats rally like it's a circus, which makes him the clown.

Nice piece of action though, can't deny that.

No he is not treating rally like a circus, it is an acute business strategy.

Remember that he is a business man first and a very successful one at that. He made his fortune from selling his own brand of skate boarding shoes, DC Shoes. Through this initial skate boarding culture, he has made a presence through all types of extreme sports.

All of which promote themselves through extreme videos like this one. We have all scene the myriad of skateboard videos with all the crashes and insane stunts. We have seen the skiing videos off the cliffs and through fresh powder. Surfing videos showing humongous waves crashing over the tiny speck of a surfer. It is amongst these types of Ken is trying to promote rally to a whole new audience.

It may not be your 'thing' these types of videos but these are the sorts of videos on constant replay in youth clothing stores. Making some youngster, in the very non-rallying USA in particular, take notice and develop an interest in the sport.

It is a shrewd strategy. I have met Ken twice when he was in New Zealand and he is a very down to earth bloke and very approachable. He is very passionate and very serious about his love for the sport. That was why he was in NZ, to learn more about international rallying and to improve himself. However he knows that alone will not promote himself in the US market.

And it is working too. The Rally America series is very popular and the inclusion of rally into the X Games has seen the sport grow over there. Travis Pastrana's entry into the sport has helped alot too, bringing a new fan base too. You have Tanner Foust, who also competes in Drift Racing and is a Top Gear USA presenter, competing in the championship.

It is even flowing onto Australia, where Chad Reed is wanting to compete in rallying. He is the current World Motorcross Champion and has a legion of fans around the world who will keenly follow his progress in our beloved sport.

[rx-guru]

Rallying is dying a slow death and if people like Ken can raise the profile of the sport, well done to him.

IMO Block can only raise the profile of a show thing that some people may think has something to do with rallying. What has (professional) wrestling to do with (amateur) wrestling? What has street racing to do with racing? What has drifting to do with racing? Und was hat Kunstdünger (artificial fertilizer) mit Kunst (art) zu tun?

[L5->R5/CR]

I get a kick out of seeing threads like this.

The video has nothing to do with rallying but Ken Block is the anti-christ for rallying according to many...

Listen, the man knows how to sell. You can't deny that. Heck, I see 10 people a day with stickers for his brand on their car, and they have never been on a skateboard. The video is a nice piece of entertainment that is a huge viral video success for his sponsors.

Sure it is multiple takes, so what. It is a "practice" video. Nothing wrong with practicing something over and over again....


But I digress, if you want something rally related, that he played a very large part in making happen, that shows and captures the excitement of rallying.....

Check out: http://www.rally.subaru.com/concord.html

[janvanvurpa]

"Ken Block is not a rally driver"
True, sadly nowadays you have to do stuff like what he does (big jumps, snowboarding, laps around america, Gumball or this) to get people's attention, and like it or not he is considered one of the "cool" guys. Much cooler than a lot of people in WRC (not gigi or the likes but way cooler than others) and unfortunately right now "cool" rules. (At least in America) Just tell me what WRC driver has major "cool", youth directed sponsors? Loeb with RedBull perhaps but what else? Abu-Dhabi? come that's not cool

I'm not on Block's side, but I think if it was Solberg or someone like that doing this no one would complain. Loeb has been doing a bunch of stuff on a track and all I've seen is things like "Loeb is so good he can kick ass anywhere"... or "I bet that Loeb given enough time could beat anyone on a track"...

There are a couple of important differences.
Loeb and yes even Solberg or Gronholm are actually FAST.
We have records of their top placings in the WRC.

I suggest you check the results for Mr Block on the few WRC outings where there are plenty of other GroupN cars both in the PWRC and those just doing a few events.
When there is any competition, Block seems to choke up and stuff or flip on the first or second stage, then circulate in the top of the lower 1/3 of the total field.
The consistent excuse is "We weren't used to the lower power of the GpN car compared to out 2,2l Open class motors".

Check the results from the recent Colin McRae Stages 08. Sure he's in a full Gp4 spec Escort, but he was struggling to break into the 50th OA on stages in a field that was not 100% ex WRC or British Champions.
And flipped this one too early in his practice.

Nobody could call his results impressive.

Second:
Loeb, Gronholm, Sohlberg and many of the past elite don't go out to small time events and arrive with 20+ crew and a new engine per day, tires by the dozen, just to beat up on the local low level clubbies.
A victory over a bunch of mostly nearly stock Subarus and barely fast road spec MkII Golfs doesn't mean an awful lot, and doesn't impress.

His business is based on artifice, relentless promotional videos similarly heavily orchestrated, heavily edited, and about as real as anything else coming out of Southern California.
How different is one silly shoe vs another?
Promotion, not reality is the key to his business success, (and of course ultra low wages to workers in some SE Asian sweatshop), but in a sport where we actually measure things and have results the gap between his REAL driving results, with dozens or re-takes and editing should be what we measure the guy by.

Or should we just go by the numbers like his fans say "2,000,000 hits says you're wrong"

Well 20,000,000,000 flies eat dung daily, so does that mean you should?

[Livewireshock]

There are a couple of important differences.
Loeb and yes even Solberg or Gronholm are actually FAST.
We have records of their top placings in the WRC.

I suggest you check the results for Mr Block on the few WRC outings where there are plenty of other GroupN cars both in the PWRC and those just doing a few events.
When there is any competition, Block seems to choke up and stuff or flip on the first or second stage, then circulate in the top of the lower 1/3 of the total field.
The consistent excuse is "We weren't used to the lower power of the GpN car compared to out 2,2l Open class motors".

Check the results from the recent Colin McRae Stages 08. Sure he's in a full Gp4 spec Escort, but he was struggling to break into the 50th OA on stages in a field that was not 100% ex WRC or British Champions.
And flipped this one too early in his practice.

Nobody could call his results impressive.

Second:
Loeb, Gronholm, Sohlberg and many of the past elite don't go out to small time events and arrive with 20+ crew and a new engine per day, tires by the dozen, just to beat up on the local low level clubbies.
A victory over a bunch of mostly nearly stock Subarus and barely fast road spec MkII Golfs doesn't mean an awful lot, and doesn't impress.

His business is based on artifice, relentless promotional videos similarly heavily orchestrated, heavily edited, and about as real as anything else coming out of Southern California.
How different is one silly shoe vs another?
Promotion, not reality is the key to his business success, (and of course ultra low wages to workers in some SE Asian sweatshop), but in a sport where we actually measure things and have results the gap between his REAL driving results, with dozens or re-takes and editing should be what we measure the guy by.

Or should we just go by the numbers like his fans say "2,000,000 hits says you're wrong"

Well 20,000,000,000 flies eat dung daily, so does that mean you should?

Ouch! What a personal attack.

I do not think for one minute that Ken is deluded into thinking he is God's gift to rallying. Neither is he touting himself as the best driver ever.

That was the precise reason he entered the New Zealand Rally Championship last year. He knows the Rally America series is nowhere in the same league as the wider world or rallying. He wants to learn.

But in a country where rally is hardly noticed, he is doing his part to gain attention. No it is not purist rally action but it makes people sit up and notice. People who now will take a look at the Loebs, Hirvonens, Gallis and more around the world.

He is selling himself. Exactly for the same reason Rossi is at RallyGB this weekend. Was why Loeb took an F1 for a spin. Rossi and Loeb are not expected to challenge in those efforts at the top but it does open them up to new fans and creates a story.

[Daniel]

I get a kick out of seeing threads like this.

The video has nothing to do with rallying but Ken Block is the anti-christ for rallying according to many...

Listen, the man knows how to sell. You can't deny that. Heck, I see 10 people a day with stickers for his brand on their car, and they have never been on a skateboard. The video is a nice piece of entertainment that is a huge viral video success for his sponsors.

Sure it is multiple takes, so what. It is a "practice" video. Nothing wrong with practicing something over and over again....


But I digress, if you want something rally related, that he played a very large part in making happen, that shows and captures the excitement of rallying.....

Check out: http://www.rally.subaru.com/concord.html
So what you're saying is this is a shoe advertisement with a rally car in it?

[Livewireshock]

The video has been made to sell himself and his team to an American audience and it is not meant to please European tastes.

Every day there are surfing vids, skiing movies, skate boarding and a hundred other 'fringe' sports showing off themselves in the same way. There is an appetite for this kind of thing there. Where mountain bikers race inside a NY skyscraper with just as many edited cuts and shots that are physically impossible to do on their own. But at the end of the day, it makes for exciting viewing.

Ken is just doing what is considered normal in the US market to make a name of the sport. Just as the X Games is not real rallying but that one event can pay for the whole season for a driver.

It may not be to your liking, if not, do not watch it.

Just do not try to stop others from enjoying it. It is a bit of fun, that it.

[Tomi]

He is selling himself.

And the one who buys it is the fool.

[Livewireshock]

And the one who buys it is the fool.

Why the puritan attitude?

Are you calling the average American a fool?

Are you calling some American teenager, who was not brought up on the delights of Gp.B or MkII Escorts, clueless about the WRC, that is suddenly looking closer at our sport a fool?

When they are surrounded by NASCAR, NFL, NBL and a hundred of other sports, the fact the some of these people will actually think to themselves, that does not look too bad, I want to know more. Then they will search the internet and see the other fantastic videos of "REAL" rallying and get to love it more.

Allow it to be the fun that this video is.

[janvanvurpa]

Ouch! What a personal attack.

Not at all a personal attack, do not misread or purposely mischaracterize what I said.
I did not say he anything about him.
All reports are that he's friendly and chummy enough.

Saying he struggles to get out of the bottom 1/3 of a WRC field is a matter of record, not an attack.
Now I personally might find the vast sums spent to guarantee Block and Pastrana will be able to beat low level clubbie friends of mine repellent and obscene but as you said, this is America where in every endeavor the American way is to apply orders of magnitude more money and hardware than whoever your opponents are.


I do not think for one minute that Ken is deluded into thinking he is God's gift to rallying. Neither is he touting himself as the best driver ever.

No but he participates in productions which imply in the slick presentations that he possesses skills.
And as I said, the record is clear when facing even mediocre competition (and if we are honest I think we can agree that the absurd costs to build, maintain, travel to and enter PWRC is a "self-limiting" deal, The pool of potential candidates is limited by these costs, not by any requirement of driver skill, and as such is hardly representative who who in any given country is good or fast)

I maintain he does nothing that hundreds of people with similar money and just a bit of time do just as well in terms of driving.



That was the precise reason he entered the New Zealand Rally Championship last year. He knows the Rally America series is nowhere in the same league as the wider world or rallying. He wants to learn.

After seeing his dismal results with a fantastic well sorted Escort on the Colin McRea Stages, if he wants to learn as you allege, it seems you would do that best by going back to what he never did do: learn to drive in simpler cars, show me 4-6 victories in Finnish GroupF, beating 50-80 good cars in the same class, that would teach him something.


But in a country where rally is hardly noticed, he is doing his part to gain attention. No it is not purist rally action but it makes people sit up and notice. People who now will take a look at the Loebs, Hirvonens, Gallis and more around the world.

Why would they associate a car jumping from one carefully constructed pile of dirt to another carefully constructed pile of dirt as being remotely connected with rally at the WRC level?
Where's the tie-in?



He is selling himself. Exactly for the same reason Rossi is at RallyGB this weekend. Was why Loeb took an F1 for a spin. Rossi and Loeb are not expected to challenge in those efforts at the top but it does open them up to new fans and creates a story.

You forget. THEY can drive.
They don't finish a WRC event 45minutes to an hour after the winner.

Look, you love the guy, it's clear.
Superficially, like many Yanks, he seems pleasant.
But in a US forum where some people expressed to be polite, non-enthusiasm for the X-games, and said that they weren't impressed with staged silliness and watching cars drive in a parking lot in second gear, Block has the gall to call them--and me--"Haters".

For some putz who waltzes in, buys a slot via his media management Corporation with the "SRTUSA" to call people, me included, people who have worked 24+ years helping dozens and dozens of people come into the sport, build cars, build motors, build suspension, source parts from all over from first event "noobies" all the way to our own 2wd National Champions--to call us "haters" because in clear text we weren't impressed with watching him drive around in some made up silliness, shows not only is he a poor driver, but also that he lacks any class at all.

Look, sometimes, just occasionally the reality beyond the superficial impression ought to weigh or count for something shouldn't it?

[cali]

Hey, i like it! I know that he is not fast concidered by WRC or any European national championships standards, but this guy gets a lot of done in advertising this sport in US. So why not?

Nobody is saying that he is fast or faster than WRC top, but this video is a good show-off and it does not matter if it is edited or not. I woud not be so cruel towards him as he has done nothing offensive towards you guys nor the sport itself.

Why being so biased and cynical all the time?

[shurik]

+1

Ken Block is a frigging moron. Someone needs to tell him that he is not a rally driver.
no he's not, he's doing a good job attracting people to rally-like stuff. all in all, rally is an ultimate auto sport. drag, drift, gymkhana and circuit racing is just an element of rally..

[Simmi]

no he's not, he's doing a good job attracting people to rally-like stuff. all in all, rally is an ultimate auto sport. drag, drift, gymkhana and circuit racing is just an element of rally..

I suppose this thread shows that Block is not loved by the rally purists. No big surprise there. I accept the fact he is attracting new fans to the sport but he is mis-representing the sport through the stunts he pulls. The X-Games are great for U.S. audiences but they are basically being sold some Americanized version of rallying that bears no resemblance to anything going on anywhere else. Same with all the big jumps. The reason I quoted shurik's post is because of his 'rally-like stuff' definition.

I fully accept and understand all the positive points made about Ken in the thread. He is not the anti-Christ. But I can't help feeling that (even in a sport this much in the gutter) he is doing more harm than good.

[Daniel]

Not at all a personal attack, do not misread or purposely mischaracterize what I said.
I did not say he anything about him.
All reports are that he's friendly and chummy enough.

Saying he struggles to get out of the bottom 1/3 of a WRC field is a matter of record, not an attack.
Now I personally might find the vast sums spent to guarantee Block and Pastrana will be able to beat low level clubbie friends of mine repellent and obscene but as you said, this is America where in every endeavor the American way is to apply orders of magnitude more money and hardware than whoever your opponents are.


No but he participates in productions which imply in the slick presentations that he possesses skills.
And as I said, the record is clear when facing even mediocre competition (and if we are honest I think we can agree that the absurd costs to build, maintain, travel to and enter PWRC is a "self-limiting" deal, The pool of potential candidates is limited by these costs, not by any requirement of driver skill, and as such is hardly representative who who in any given country is good or fast)

I maintain he does nothing that hundreds of people with similar money and just a bit of time do just as well in terms of driving.



After seeing his dismal results with a fantastic well sorted Escort on the Colin McRea Stages, if he wants to learn as you allege, it seems you would do that best by going back to what he never did do: learn to drive in simpler cars, show me 4-6 victories in Finnish GroupF, beating 50-80 good cars in the same class, that would teach him something.


Why would they associate a car jumping from one carefully constructed pile of dirt to another carefully constructed pile of dirt as being remotely connected with rally at the WRC level?
Where's the tie-in?



You forget. THEY can drive.
They don't finish a WRC event 45minutes to an hour after the winner.

Look, you love the guy, it's clear.
Superficially, like many Yanks, he seems pleasant.
But in a US forum where some people expressed to be polite, non-enthusiasm for the X-games, and said that they weren't impressed with staged silliness and watching cars drive in a parking lot in second gear, Block has the gall to call them--and me--"Haters".

For some putz who waltzes in, buys a slot via his media management Corporation with the "SRTUSA" to call people, me included, people who have worked 24+ years helping dozens and dozens of people come into the sport, build cars, build motors, build suspension, source parts from all over from first event "noobies" all the way to our own 2wd National Champions--to call us "haters" because in clear text we weren't impressed with watching him drive around in some made up silliness, shows not only is he a poor driver, but also that he lacks any class at all.

Look, sometimes, just occasionally the reality beyond the superficial impression ought to weigh or count for something shouldn't it?

What he said.....

I don't expect every person's idea of rallying to fit in with my narrow idea of what rallying is but this guy is no rally driver and he just shows that he really doesn't understand what rallying is.

I respect Pastrana as I feel that at least on a superficial level he "gets" rallying and even though he's never going to be finish in the top 10 in a WRC event he still understands rallying at least and that's something. But you've got Ken who things rallying is extreme to the max woooo yeah omfg that's like so wtf awesome dude yeah to the max who comes in looking something like Vanilla Ice. It would all be funny if it were a joke but it's not.

This is not rallying in any way shape or form.....

[Daniel]

I suppose this thread shows that Block is not loved by the rally purists. No big surprise there. I accept the fact he is attracting new fans to the sport but he is mis-representing the sport through the stunts he pulls. The X-Games are great for U.S. audiences but they are basically being sold some Americanized version of rallying that bears no resemblance to anything going on anywhere else. Same with all the big jumps. The reason I quoted shurik's post is because of his 'rally-like stuff' definition.

I fully accept and understand all the positive points made about Ken in the thread. He is not the anti-Christ. But I can't help feeling that (even in a sport this much in the gutter) he is doing more harm than good.
Truer words have never been spoken.

[cali]

Rallying purists my ass :D
More like narrowminded :p

I just do not seem to have a clue why are you so upset about it. But then again, it is maybe my fault of being too postive and too friendly towards everything.

And now let the sarcasm and BS start....

[JAM]

Ken Block is the devil only because he is making what the WRC manufacturers shoud being done...

The fault is from WRC manufacturers, not from Block.

I don't like the guy, but he is smart, smarter than the milionaire WRC teams.

To some forum members i give the advice: Wake up, world is not only WRC neither rallying.

[shurik]

+1 to JAM
In today's world sport is strongly connected to entertainment, and it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it just a fact. So anyone involved should keep in mind that he should deliver a show in addition to performance. Imo Ken does understands this fact well enough to use it for his own benefit. As a matter of fact, this topic is a pure example of how to make people draw there attention to moderate rally driver ;)

[raybak]

I'm a big fan of promoting rallying, I think Block has his heart in the right place when it comes tot he sport of rallying. There will always be two sides to every story, people will have different opinions. What we have to do is stand together for our sport, not bicker and fight between us about a video of someone or who has better colour car or whatever. It's tough now to get media coverage, it's tough to get spectators. maybe we have to try some different things to bring the people back.

I will be doing my first event as a Director next year, maybe there will be a few different things happening.

Anyway for something good, we have the Rallye des Femmes this weekend in Canberra for female drivers only. Should be fun, 17 entries including a Factory entry from Mazda.

Ray

[Tomi]

Why the puritan attitude?

Are you calling the average American a fool?

Are you calling some American teenager, who was not brought up on the delights of Gp.B or MkII Escorts, clueless about the WRC, that is suddenly looking closer at our sport a fool?

When they are surrounded by NASCAR, NFL, NBL and a hundred of other sports, the fact the some of these people will actually think to themselves, that does not look too bad, I want to know more. Then they will search the internet and see the other fantastic videos of "REAL" rallying and get to love it more.

Allow it to be the fun that this video is.

Has nothing to do with average american or how stupid they are, but about how to advertise in general, the one who belives rally is someting like that in the clip is a fool.

[JAM]

Has nothing to do with average american or how stupid they are, but about how to advertise in general, the one who belives rally is someting like that in the clip is a fool.

The ordinary person don't understand nothing about rallying. What the manufacturers or FIA made to bring these people to rallying? Nothing.

And Block is doing something, and something very easy and afordable to the manufacturers. That's the point.

And again, i don't like the guy, but the jump, the ride on the snow and this latest video make me know him, and give value to his effort of self-promotion.

[Daniel]

The ordinary person don't understand nothing about rallying. What the manufacturers or FIA made to bring these people to rallying? Nothing.

And Block is doing something, and something very easy and afordable to the manufacturers. That's the point.

And again, i don't like the guy, but the jump, the ride on the snow and this latest video make me know him, and give value to his effort of self-promotion.

Rallying isn't meant for everyone. It was when the coverage was done for normal people that it all went downhill.

[WRCfan]

I can't believe how everyone has their panties in a twist over this!!!!!

He didn't come out in the video and say "THIS IS RALLYING!!!!!"
He is out in a tuned car with 500BHP doing skids and powerslides. Where the h*ll did this get twisted where Ken is claiming this video is the essence of rallying!?

He is a very intelligent guy, took DC from an idea to what it is now. He has done his work and has lots of cash to go and play with. If he wants to make a video like this one then that's his business.

If the WRC coverage was event 10% as interesting as Ken's video then WRC would have a better following. This year's championship was about as exciting as watching my dog crap on the back lawn for heaven's sake!!!!

Just let the dude be, I think we are too narrow minded on the forum about rallying, one thing is inevitable throughout time, and that is change. Look at 1970-now in regards to rallying.

[jonas_mcrae]

Why would they associate a car jumping from one carefully constructed pile of dirt to another carefully constructed pile of dirt as being remotely connected with rally at the WRC level?
Where's the tie-in?


hmmm... its supposed to be a rally car? with suspension that is strong enough to take the impact? If it is the first time you watch this you might think "I wonder what do they use this cars for appart from doing big jumps?" and then again you do some research and find some REAL rally. There's your tie-in

[jonas_mcrae]

The ordinary person don't understand nothing about rallying. What the manufacturers or FIA made to bring these people to rallying? Nothing.

And Block is doing something, and something very easy and afordable to the manufacturers. That's the point.

And again, i don't like the guy, but the jump, the ride on the snow and this latest video make me know him, and give value to his effort of self-promotion.

Well said!

Check the amount of posts people against Block's videos have... (2000+ same guys that complain all the time...) nothing new.

[L5->R5/CR]

So what you're saying is this is a shoe advertisement with a rally car in it?

Actually it is an energy drink advertisement with a Subaru in it.

It is coincidence that the car has the same scheme as his rally car (it is a totally different car) mainly because of his sponsors.

Did you look at the second video that I posted the link to? I wish we had footage like that from each WRC event that was easy to find...

[L5->R5/CR]

Has nothing to do with average american or how stupid they are, but about how to advertise in general, the one who belives rally is someting like that in the clip is a fool.



So you are calling yourself a fool? Because I have yet to see where it even remotely implies that the video in question is even remotely related to rallying... Yet you, and many others, keep trying to associate it with rallying...

Here is an example of how Ken's "stunts" help the sport in the US.
I can across some 20somethings with DC stickers on their cars. I asked them if they has seen Mountain Lab 1.5. They had, they said "those scene's with the car were too freaking cool". I said "yeah, he really had a lot of fun basically destroying that rally car. Hey, by the way, you guys have any interest in going to an actual rally, it won't be what he was doing at the ski resort but it will be a bunch of similar cars going ridicuously fast for a whole weekend". They replied "wait, they actually race like that? No F*()*&^g way? We have to go see that! when is it". I told them.

About two weeks after the rally I ran into them again. I asked them if they had made it up. They had, they agreed that it wasn't like the video but that it was really cool and they wanted to know when the next event was so they could take some more people with them.

In a country with a sport that sees maybe 5,000 spectators at a single event happenings like this one matter.

[Tomi]

So you are calling yourself a fool? Because I have yet to see where it even remotely implies that the video in question is even remotely related to rallying... Yet you, and many others, keep trying to associate it with rallying...

Here is an example of how Ken's "stunts" help the sport in the US.
I can across some 20somethings with DC stickers on their cars. I asked them if they has seen Mountain Lab 1.5. They had, they said "those scene's with the car were too freaking cool". I said "yeah, he really had a lot of fun basically destroying that rally car. Hey, by the way, you guys have any interest in going to an actual rally, it won't be what he was doing at the ski resort but it will be a bunch of similar cars going ridicuously fast for a whole weekend". They replied "wait, they actually race like that? No F*()*&^g way? We have to go see that! when is it". I told them.

About two weeks after the rally I ran into them again. I asked them if they had made it up. They had, they agreed that it wasn't like the video but that it was really cool and they wanted to know when the next event was so they could take some more people with them.

In a country with a sport that sees maybe 5,000 spectators at a single event happenings like this one matter.

Maybe you should read the post once again, i have been following rally for some time by now, so i think i have a small idea what it is.

[cannyboy]

There are a couple of important differences.
Loeb and yes even Solberg or Gronholm are actually FAST.
We have records of their top placings in the WRC.

I suggest you check the results for Mr Block on the few WRC outings where there are plenty of other GroupN cars both in the PWRC and those just doing a few events.
When there is any competition, Block seems to choke up and stuff or flip on the first or second stage, then circulate in the top of the lower 1/3 of the total field.
The consistent excuse is "We weren't used to the lower power of the GpN car compared to out 2,2l Open class motors".

Check the results from the recent Colin McRae Stages 08. Sure he's in a full Gp4 spec Escort, but he was struggling to break into the 50th OA on stages in a field that was not 100% ex WRC or British Champions.
And flipped this one too early in his practice.

Nobody could call his results impressive.

Second:
Loeb, Gronholm, Sohlberg and many of the past elite don't go out to small time events and arrive with 20+ crew and a new engine per day, tires by the dozen, just to beat up on the local low level clubbies.
A victory over a bunch of mostly nearly stock Subarus and barely fast road spec MkII Golfs doesn't mean an awful lot, and doesn't impress.

His business is based on artifice, relentless promotional videos similarly heavily orchestrated, heavily edited, and about as real as anything else coming out of Southern California.
How different is one silly shoe vs another?
Promotion, not reality is the key to his business success, (and of course ultra low wages to workers in some SE Asian sweatshop), but in a sport where we actually measure things and have results the gap between his REAL driving results, with dozens or re-takes and editing should be what we measure the guy by.

Or should we just go by the numbers like his fans say "2,000,000 hits says you're wrong"

Well 20,000,000,000 flies eat dung daily, so does that mean you should?

Maybe Citroen could learn from this and stick Loeb in an unrestricted C4 and let him dance.
Make the video, increase exposure to the sport. Would that keep you happy?

Instead one has to struggle to find spectators on many wrc events these days.

I can't remember the last time I saw a well produced wrc promotion video. How about sticking the wrc drivers on a hill like pikes peak again, and make a stunning video like climb dance. That is how you get people to the stages. You need to get the public excited about the sport again.

3 people I know who don't care a jot about motorsport actually emailed me about the video - along the lines of I saw this video of a car the same as yours - it was nuts.

2 of them are coming to see rally ireland with me after that.

Some of you guys are just too blind to see a good thing. Block never said he was a rallying god, but the guy has given subaru HUGE exposure, something which their rally team has failed to do for some years now.

I really do think that some of you guys are happy to see the popularity of rallying crash, and are so stuck in traditional ways of thinking, that the wrc ship will go down with you.

Only 2 drivers in the WRC get paid now - and you guys think that is ok. Thats not a sport - its a business, designed to extract as much money as possible from up and coming drivers and their rich fathers.
Complain on - antiquated views like yours are why the wrc is in such a bad state at the moment.

It should be promoted with stunts like this, to get people to real stages.

[L5->R5/CR]

Maybe you should read the post once again, i have been following rally for some time by now, so i think i have a small idea what it is.

You just keep talking about how this or that is related to rallying when there is nothing in the videos that directly links/relates the footage to rallying.

I'm not saying you don't know what rallying is (it is obvious you know) but at the same time, you seem to be the one connecting the stunts with rallying...

Just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...

[Tomi]

You just keep talking about how this or that is related to rallying when there is nothing in the videos that directly links/relates the footage to rallying.

I'm not saying you don't know what rallying is (it is obvious you know) but at the same time, you seem to be the one connecting the stunts with rallying...

Just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...

No, what i say is " the one who belives rally is someting like that in the clip is a fool.".
To me thats about as close to rally like if someone would be milking a cow and post the clip of that on a rally forum.

[Nenukknak]

Don't know who the hell Ken Block is, cool video to watch though. Nice sound! It's not rallying, but then again I don't see anywhere in the vid that this is rallying. :rolleyes:

[janvanvurpa]

You just keep talking about how this or that is related to rallying when there is nothing in the videos that directly links/relates the footage to rallying.

I'm not saying you don't know what rallying is (it is obvious you know) but at the same time, you seem to be the one connecting the stunts with rallying...

Just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...

Actually Kevin in your story, YOU did the job of trying to connect Block's foo-foo masturbatory stunts with, to use your own words "it won't be what he was doing at the ski resort but it will be a bunch of similar cars going ridicuously fast for a whole weekend".


Just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...

[janvanvurpa]

Maybe Citroen could learn from this and stick Loeb in an unrestricted C4 and let him dance.
Make the video, increase exposure to the sport. Would that keep you happy?

Again, it would be fine since there is ample proof that Loeb is a great driver by the highest standards imaginable.

The video promotes one thing: Ken Block.
It's unstated message, which is obvious to the fan boys who love these kinds of extremez vidzerz! is "Ken Blocks is an amazing!!!!!!! driver.
Again and again that is the comment left.

This vid increases exposure of Block, and does nothing to lower the entry fees for my friends or me, or help our organisers find and get permits for new roads for my friends or me to rally on, nothing of value for anybody but Block.


Instead one has to struggle to find spectators on many wrc events these days.

Maybe that has to do with cars that are so good, but even at the GroupN level, so expensive that only an extreme few people can afford to run a modern turbo 4wd car, and those that can aren't necessarily people who have been in the sport very long, who can drive the wheels off anything, those who have experience but rather those whose success is in promoting contentless junk in a "Brand".


I can't remember the last time I saw a well produced wrc promotion video. How about sticking the wrc drivers on a hill like pikes peak again, and make a stunning video like climb dance. That is how you get people to the stages. You need to get the public excited about the sport again.

I have mentioned Climb Dance as the antitheses of this even though both were excellently produced, excellently edited.
The difference is that in implying that Vatanen was a fantastic driver who was exciting to watch, they were telling the truth.




Some of you guys are just too blind to see a good thing. Block never said he was a rallying god, but the guy has given subaru HUGE exposure, something which their rally team has failed to do for some years now.


Some of us are here on the ground still trying to help people into the sport as drivers, co drivers and we see the results of people trying to compete with the Subaru Team here.
Specifically, how has Subaru getting some exposure benefit anybody other than Subaru USA corporate profits?


I really do think that some of you guys are happy to see the popularity of rallying crash, and are so stuck in traditional ways of thinking, that the wrc ship will go down with you.

Only 2 drivers in the WRC get paid now - and you guys think that is ok. Thats not a sport - its a business, designed to extract as much money as possible from up and coming drivers and their rich fathers.
Complain on - antiquated views like yours are why the wrc is in such a bad state at the moment.

It should be promoted with stunts like this, to get people to real stages.

My concern is to one day see more than 50 cars entered in our local events;
and the WRC since the inception of the World Rally Car rules allowing these hyper rare, hyper expensive cars has become irrelevant to to local competitor, the local POTENTIAL competitor and anybody else.
You're right, it is a cynical business now, and promotion of this guy who is a consummate example of a slick corporate type whose antic benefit only corporate interests has help nobody----except a handful of "extremezerz sportz heroz" well past their sell-by-date---who all just happen to have the same Wasserman Media Group as their "Sports Management" team who just like Block, bought in at the very top---and then are hailed as "Great drivers".

And as I said, check the results, the "fastest' can barely break into the top 50 at a Scottish event.

That DISCONNECT between the hyper-produced faux exciting video and the er um extremely modest reality a US fan may see at an event HURTS the sport.
It paints us all as bullsh!tters.

And the guys who might want to build a car and begin competing sees the semi-trucks and the dozens of people scurrying around and the motor homes and say,
"Bugger me! I can't compete with that" and he goes and buys a dirt-bike!

[Daniel]

Again, it would be fine since there is ample proof that Loeb is a great driver by the highest standards imaginable.

The video promotes one thing: Ken Block.
It's unstated message, which is obvious to the fan boys who love these kinds of extremez vidzerz! is "Ken Blocks is an amazing!!!!!!! driver.
Again and again that is the comment left.

This vid increases exposure of Block, and does nothing to lower the entry fees for my friends or me, or help our organisers find and get permits for new roads for my friends or me to rally on, nothing of value for anybody but Block.



Maybe that has to do with cars that are so good, but even at the GroupN level, so expensive that only an extreme few people can afford to run a modern turbo 4wd car, and those that can aren't necessarily people who have been in the sport very long, who can drive the wheels off anything, those who have experience but rather those whose success is in promoting contentless junk in a "Brand".



I have mentioned Climb Dance as the antitheses of this even though both were excellently produced, excellently edited.
The difference is that in implying that Vatanen was a fantastic driver who was exciting to watch, they were telling the truth.





Some of us are here on the ground still trying to help people into the sport as drivers, co drivers and we see the results of people trying to compete with the Subaru Team here.
Specifically, how has Subaru getting some exposure benefit anybody other than Subaru USA corporate profits?



My concern is to one day see more than 50 cars entered in our local events;
and the WRC since the inception of the World Rally Car rules allowing these hyper rare, hyper expensive cars has become irrelevant to to local competitor, the local POTENTIAL competitor and anybody else.
You're right, it is a cynical business now, and promotion of this guy who is a consummate example of a slick corporate type whose antic benefit only corporate interests has help nobody----except a handful of "extremezerz sportz heroz" well past their sell-by-date---who all just happen to have the same Wasserman Media Group as their "Sports Management" team who just like Block, bought in at the very top---and then are hailed as "Great drivers".

And as I said, check the results, the "fastest' can barely break into the top 50 at a Scottish event.

That DISCONNECT between the hyper-produced faux exciting video and the er um extremely modest reality a US fan may see at an event HURTS the sport.
It paints us all as bullsh!tters.

And the guys who might want to build a car and begin competing sees the semi-trucks and the dozens of people scurrying around and the motor homes and say,
"Bugger me! I can't compete with that" and he goes and buys a dirt-bike!
Lolz0rz you hater :p

[L5->R5/CR]

Actually Kevin in your story, YOU did the job of trying to connect Block's foo-foo masturbatory stunts with, to use your own words "it won't be what he was doing at the ski resort but it will be a bunch of similar cars going ridicuously fast for a whole weekend".


Just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...

John,

There is no point in having a conversation, or even a discussion, with you.

We remain of different opinions on fundamental matters that will never be resolved.

[cannyboy]

This vid increases exposure of Block, and does nothing to lower the entry fees for my friends or me, or help our organisers find and get permits for new roads for my friends or me to rally on, nothing of value for anybody but Block.


Good for you – perhaps you can make a video of your own, where you and your friends can promote what great drivers you are, and I’ll be sure to click on it and tell you what I think. Methinks that block would beat you guys senseless, despite him being only an average driver.
Are you looking for charity?




Maybe that has to do with cars that are so good, but even at the GroupN level, so expensive that only an extreme few people can afford to run a modern turbo 4wd car, and those that can aren't necessarily people who have been in the sport very long, who can drive the wheels off anything, those who have experience but rather those whose success is in promoting contentless junk in a "Brand".


I hate to break it to you, but rallying is an expensive sport. Always was, always will be. If you haven’t got the money to win, whose fault is that? The open class cars are cheap as chips in relation to full bore wrc cars, so quit complaining.
Spend a little less time ranting and a bit more time working, buy a crashed evo, set it up and show us how good you are.
And no spectators want to go watch average drivers in beat up old junk. No sponsors want that either.


It’s obvious that you don’t like Block. Good for you. And it’s obvious that your jealousy is spilling out of your mouth with froth!

It appears you would rather a championship that no one cars about, where the cars are junk with no promotion or future.
Good for you.

What level of cost suits you, since your finances seem to cloud what your vision of rallying should be?

Just keep in mind that not everyone agrees with your vision of rallying.

Perhaps you are happy with the sport dying a slow death, but people like pastranna, block and rossi bring much needed attention to a sport that has had no idea how to promote itself.

Despite loeb being a driving god, no one cares or knows his name, because the promotion of the sport has been a black hole.

[Daniel]

It’s obvious that you don’t like Block. Good for you. And it’s obvious that your jealousy is spilling out of your mouth with froth!

The old jealousy argument! The basis of an argument for the person who has no basis for argument......

[cannyboy]

And your argument is?

The OP mentioned motorhomes, shiny cars, expensive enough of times in his rant to know where he stands.

He would seem to prefer if the casual spectator turned up to the sport and the service park consisted of a couple of gypsies sitting around a campfire beating old battered golfs with sledge hammers.

Romantic as it may be, it isn't the future, and it will not attract new spectators or sponsors to the sport.

The clubman in rallying always should be out to win his class - not the rally.
Leave that to the professionals with the resources to have the best equipment and backup - if they can pedal a car, more power to them.

It's the same in every form of motorsport, and has been since motorsport began.

[JAM]

Only one question:

Why don't Sebastien Loeb and Citroen make a movie like this? A C4 without restrictor and 4 used tarmac tyres would be anough to spread Loeb around de internet... And i muts be sure that Loeb wouldn't need to try so many times as Block did to do that manouvers.

[cannyboy]

Only one question:

Why don't Sebastien Loeb and Citroen make a movie like this? A C4 without restrictor and 4 used tarmac tyres would be anough to spread Loeb around de internet... And i muts be sure that Loeb wouldn't need to try so many times as Block did to do that manouvers.

Thank you JAM - exactly where I am coming from.

Ken Block is more famous that Loeb now even though Loeb would have him for breakfast. Ever wonder why?
Consider what block spends, compared to citroen, and you can see a huge opportunity wasted.

[Robbied]

Yep he sure knows how to make a cool video using his time attack car and some cool editing.

And, suprise suprise, he knows how to market it and get it to the masses! Who'd a thought it!!!

[Stalks]

Just a quick thought - apart from the in car shots of Ken going in a straight line, and climbing out at the end - is it actually Ken doing the rest of the driving?
How come there isn't any in car looking at his face whilst flicking the car sideways or doing the big drifts??? Cause it's probably not him......

[Allyc85]

lmao Why would you want to look at his face?

[Stalks]

Haha, to see if he is catching flies like Atkinson!
No but really, can they not show us him actually throwing the car around, changing gears etc during the sliding?
And while we are on it, in some shots it is clearly 4wd, but when the car gets into that little pen and does donuts it appears the front wheels are not spinning, so is it rear wheel drive only now?
And finally if you freeze the in car shot of ken you will see it doesn't even have a roll cage!

[janvanvurpa]

John,

There is no point in having a conversation, or even a discussion, with you.

We remain of different opinions on fundamental matters that will never be resolved.


That's fine with me, but since you were just pointing out the disconnect between a guys arguments and his comments I thought you'd be happy if somebody were to just point out the disconnect with your argument versus your comments...


Just trying to help as always. :)

[janvanvurpa]

And your argument is?

The OP mentioned motorhomes, shiny cars, expensive enough of times in his rant to know where he stands.

He would seem to prefer if the casual spectator turned up to the sport and the service park consisted of a couple of gypsies sitting around a campfire beating old battered golfs with sledge hammers.

Romantic as it may be, it isn't the future, and it will not attract new spectators or sponsors to the sport.

The clubman in rallying always should be out to win his class - not the rally.
Leave that to the professionals with the resources to have the best equipment and backup - if they can pedal a car, more power to them.

It's the same in every form of motorsport, and has been since motorsport began.

Cannyboy, since you like internet anonymity I have no idea who you are, where you are, what your level of competition is or even if you compete or have competed evr in any form of motorsport, but your repeating of tired cliches makes me think you maybe just an inter-net fan-boy.
Maybe not but in your argument to attempt rather poorly to paint what I say about Blocks driving abilities as "seeming to prefer if the casual spectator turned up to the sport and the service park consisted of a couple of gypsies sitting around a campfire beating old battered golfs with sledge hammers".
And by exaggerating what I've said to some idiotic degree you have lost any semblance of credibility.

in other words: BITE ME.

My concern is the extremely low participation numbers in the US and Canada period. Has been since my first rally event in 1984.
There is no decent foundation in the sport on this continent like even many 3rd World countries and considering the population of USA and Canada at over 325 million, you'd think we ought to be able to muster a few more than maybe 200 cars total.

Your concerns are obviously spectators, sponsors and the slow demise of the WRC. that leads me you assume you are somewhere with a healthy National rally program and that is a luxury we don't have in any region of the US or Canada. Maybe you yourself are fully funded yourself in your rally car because there is enough of a marrket that sponsorship is a possibility.
Good for you.

But since you seemm to be an aggressive and unfortunately simplistic thinker, let me give you a hint: there are other emotions when seeing massive waste, massive truckloads of bullcrap dumped to tart up the poor driving of rich "Gentleman drivers". One emotion might be simply disgust, another might be nausea.

But I am not jealous of anybodys driving or the money they spend to buy their hollow successes, particularly when they are beating guys in mild spec Subies and Golfs.
That is an accusation thrown out by people who have those emotions in their own hearts---l.
I know what I did in another motorsport which was a damn sight more demanding than sitting in a car twirling a power assisted steering wheel around for a few short minutes at a time.

There is a model of what I'd like to see in this continent and all you need to do is look at GruppH in Sweden and especially Group F in Finland.
Lots of events, lots of cars in class, sometimes as much as 140.
A victory there is an accomplishment.
And as for excitement, any car going at speeds within fractions of the speeds of current WRC cars is exciting especially when they're rwd cars.

Some might say the F in GroupF stands for the "Future".

[Daniel]

And your argument is?

The OP mentioned motorhomes, shiny cars, expensive enough of times in his rant to know where he stands.

He would seem to prefer if the casual spectator turned up to the sport and the service park consisted of a couple of gypsies sitting around a campfire beating old battered golfs with sledge hammers.

The clubman in rallying always should be out to win his class - not the rally.
Leave that to the professionals with the resources to have the best equipment and backup - if they can pedal a car, more power to them

I know I am but what are you? He justified his point on motor homes and so on so If you don't get his point it's not his problem.

I don't know if you've ever been to a country where there's a proper standard of rallying, whether you just have a thing for goats or whether you just plain have no idea about rallying, but I've never seen a gypsy at a rally and I don't think I ever will. Seriously wtf was the point of that bit? Do you think all the people who go to rallies in Europe are gypsies and that all the top rally drivers here are people with lots of money but no talent? :confused:

You last paragraph merely enforces Janvan's point. The lack of depth in rallying in North America just seems to mean that "professionals" (hahahahaha whatever) like Ken Block can merely turn up in a top spec car and win because there is no one else with enough sponsorship to be able to afford comparable machinery. If you want to see rich people rallying then great, the rest of of us just want to see good quality rallying with good quality drivers in a field where there is good competition.

I come from Australia where the rally scene is well established. It only got there because we had a WRC event and the fact that rich boys generally stayed out. There are some rich boys in it now but there are enough top competitiors with sponsorship to put them in there place.

If you want to ever produce a driver fit for the WRC then you'll tell Ken where to go with his stinky shoe money :)

If Ken went rallying in comparable machinery in Australia, Britain or Finland he would get his silly showoff arse kicked so hard it wouldn't be funny. Oh wait he DID go to Britain and he did get his arse kicked :)

[Daniel]

Thank you JAM - exactly where I am coming from.

Ken Block is more famous that Loeb now even though Loeb would have him for breakfast. Ever wonder why?
Consider what block spends, compared to citroen, and you can see a huge opportunity wasted.

LOL I just saw this. What a load of rubbish. I bet if you went to a rally in Australia, Finland or the UK people would be like who the ^%#@ is Ken Block?

Perhaps Citroen want to spend their millions on winning a worthwhile championship (well it was worthwhile 2 or 3 years ago if we're fair) with professional drivers as in not rich boys with very little skill.

Someone mentioned Climbdance. Climbdance is ****ing iconic.... from the bit where the bug gets squashed to the bit where Ari shields his eyes from the afternoon sun with his hands to the bit where the car drifts to the edge of a pretty steep drop it's just 100% awesomeness. Ken's effort is just a heavily edited bit of drifting

What Ken does is drifting at best. Drifting is a laughable attempt at motorsport. Drifting is to motorsport what synchronised swimmming is to swimming. Drifting is what you get into when you realised that you're not capable of going faster than everyone, when you realise you will never win through speed so you might as well impress the uneducated fool who wouldn't know skill if it pulled their pants down and spanked them on the butt.

If anyone was impressed by this video then I feel incredibly sorry for them that they've not seen proper competition and proper motorsport which is a thousand times more interesting and spectacular than this.

[rx-guru]

What Ken does is drifting at best. Drifting is a laughable attempt at motorsport. Drifting is to motorsport what synchronised swimmming is to swimming. Drifting is what you get into when you realised that you're not capable of going faster than everyone, when you realise you will never win through speed so you might as well impress the uneducated fool who wouldn't know skill if it pulled their pants down and spanked them on the butt.

If anyone was impressed by this video then I feel incredibly sorry for them that they've not seen proper competition and proper motorsport which is a thousand times more interesting and spectacular than this.

FULL ACK! And I bet that 99% of those kids who like his video very much will never ever show up at a serious motorsport competition venue. But perhaps some of them will bring their friends and other innocent people in severe danger during their weekend nights... IMO Block gives the PS2 or Xbox generation the impression that a car is just a toy rather than a weapon in the hands of the inexperienced. At least in my own country.

[MrJan]

Not a bad little show but neither rallying nor a true Gymkhana, just tossing about to make lots of smoke and noise. I find this video much more impressive http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rhz19ZrpZg

[Daniel]

Not a bad little show but neither rallying nor a true Gymkhana, just tossing about to make lots of smoke and noise. I find this video much more impressive http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rhz19ZrpZg
I've seen that one before :D Now that's car control unlike what the shoe guy did which is just chucking the car about which I reckon a good deal of people could do given the amount of space he had.....

[cali]

I've seen that one before :D Now that's car control unlike what the shoe guy did which is just chucking the car about which I reckon a good deal of people could do given the amount of space he had.....

Me thinks we should go and punish Ken Block cos he is not a real fast rally driver and made such a stupid video which actually killed rallying. We, rallyforum members and rallying purists, have got clear message from Rally God that the "shoe guy" must get the ultimate pnalty of all times - Daniels rants, which will go on for an eternity.

For gods sake Daniel, you don't like the guy, we all got it from your first post, but can You just leave it now?
We all know u love the champs and hate the guys "who are not a real deal".

[WRCfan]

Im still stunned that this simple video has everyones blood pressure through the roof.

"He is showing that a car is a toy and therefore a weapon in the hands of inexperienced".....go and get a hobby to occupy your time, because to go and make that assumption from skidding around on a "abandoned" place means you have WAAAAY too much time on your hands...damn!

If you don't like the guy then fine, that's cool, but don't need to rant on a forum about how "stupid" his video is. If he wants to go burn rubber, and do skids then that's his right. Looks a h*ll of a lot more exciting than most of our lives! suck it up!

[cannyboy]

Cannyboy, since you like internet anonymity I have no idea who you are, where you are, what your level of competition is or even if you compete or have competed evr in any form of motorsport, but your repeating of tired cliches makes me think you maybe just an inter-net fan-boy.
Maybe not but in your argument to attempt rather poorly to paint what I say about Blocks driving abilities as "seeming to prefer if the casual spectator turned up to the sport and the service park consisted of a couple of gypsies sitting around a campfire beating old battered golfs with sledge hammers".
And by exaggerating what I've said to some idiotic degree you have lost any semblance of credibility.

in other words: BITE ME.

My concern is the extremely low participation numbers in the US and Canada period. Has been since my first rally event in 1984.
There is no decent foundation in the sport on this continent like even many 3rd World countries and considering the population of USA and Canada at over 325 million, you'd think we ought to be able to muster a few more than maybe 200 cars total.

Your concerns are obviously spectators, sponsors and the slow demise of the WRC. that leads me you assume you are somewhere with a healthy National rally program and that is a luxury we don't have in any region of the US or Canada. Maybe you yourself are fully funded yourself in your rally car because there is enough of a marrket that sponsorship is a possibility.
Good for you.

But since you seemm to be an aggressive and unfortunately simplistic thinker, let me give you a hint: there are other emotions when seeing massive waste, massive truckloads of bullcrap dumped to tart up the poor driving of rich "Gentleman drivers". One emotion might be simply disgust, another might be nausea.

But I am not jealous of anybodys driving or the money they spend to buy their hollow successes, particularly when they are beating guys in mild spec Subies and Golfs.
That is an accusation thrown out by people who have those emotions in their own hearts---l.
I know what I did in another motorsport which was a damn sight more demanding than sitting in a car twirling a power assisted steering wheel around for a few short minutes at a time.

There is a model of what I'd like to see in this continent and all you need to do is look at GruppH in Sweden and especially Group F in Finland.
Lots of events, lots of cars in class, sometimes as much as 140.
A victory there is an accomplishment.
And as for excitement, any car going at speeds within fractions of the speeds of current WRC cars is exciting especially when they're rwd cars.

Some might say the F in GroupF stands for the "Future".


What difference do the motorhomes et al make to you at the end of the day.
They are more competitors at the end of the day. I don;t see how it impacts your rallying, and why you seem to be so upset with Ken.
If absolute glory is your game, and you are upset that you can't win rallys, because someone with more toys turned up, there are plenty of classes out there for you to win.

I spend my time between ireland and the us, and can see what leads to the success and failure of both regions.

The biggest problem that US rallying has is this fixation on a national championship, before getting the regional stuff down.

The cost of cars pale in to insignificance when rallies involve many days off work, and huge distances to travel.

The rallycross scene is growing in the us - why? Because you have a series on your doorstep that is accessably to the masses. Not some rally that is 20 hours and 5 days off work away. Rallycross in my region has to turn away competitors now becasue of the popularity. Imagine that, - soming involving rallying in the US that has too many entries! It can happen. And the huge variety of cars is the reason why spectators even turn out.

I repeat...


But I am not jealous of anybodys driving or the money they spend to buy their hollow successes, particularly when they are beating guys in mild spec Subies and Golfs.

"Not jealous" - "Hollow successes" Say it all.
You expect to win rallys in a battered old golf. Unfrortunatly, it's 2008, not 1987, and the world has moved on.

To be even ranting about other guys who have power steering just shows how bitter you are - Power steering ffs. Again, it's 2008!

If ken has more toys than you, perhaps you can ask santa for more this christmas, or just pipe down, and get on with your own rallying and enjoy the sport. There is no need for the level of bitterness between competitors that you are demonstrating.

The clubman needs the big boys as much as the big boys need the clubman.
It's the same in the wrc, ireland or whatever other country out there that is trying to increase the popularity of rallying. It's an expensive sport to begin with. I assume you have more money than some other competitors - would you expect them to be on line ranting about you?

Fair play to ken et al for trying to increase the exposure of a sport that has been mismanaged in the US for years. They may have money, but they also have passion, which is what all rallymen should have in common. You should see them as a help and not a threat, and welcome them to the sport as you would any competitor.

Still, I commend you for being so bitter while posting your name on line. If I see you coming down a stage, I'll stand extra well back, as you may not be able to see the road properly with the green bile of jealousy filling your helmet, and your rage may force you off the road, and the lack of power steering will make it that little bit harder to save the moment.

[MrJan]

I think the point about Golfs was more that the US is a largely uncompetative championship and that anyone who really wants to prove themselves to the rally community should do so elsewhere, especially if you have the kind of $$$ behind you that Block does.

However I think that the main problem that people have with Ken is that he says he's a rally driver and then does stuff like jumping a car, messing about on an airfield and doing X-Games. A lot of people don't even like the modern WRC format because it doesn't represent the endurance challenge it used to so X-Games and the like really don't come across as rallying in the way that we know it.

That said I don't have a great deal against Block, the jump thing he did was spectacular and I think that people are giving the 'gymkhana' thing a lot less credit than it deserves, no matter how many gubbins you have it's tricky to donut around a bloke on a Segway.

[rx-guru]

@ WRCfan: If you don't get my point I can't help. But you should quote me propperly – at least...

I guess you have never been to my country to understand what I'am talking about.

Every Friday and Saturday night the amount of driving licence newbies producing very bad traffic accidents over here is incredible. Drinkdriving or not, it is nearly always a question of trying to ignore all laws of physics. And that video makes a lot of fools believe that handling a car is just child's play.

[janvanvurpa]

What difference do the motorhomes .... I don;t see how it impacts your rallying, and why you seem to be so upset with Ken.

What an genius.

Your references to US so-called "rallycross" as having any connection in any way to even the low level of US Rally shows you're not serious, and probably a Subaru WRX wannabe----or just delusional.




Let me make it clear since your ability to understand implied concepts is so limited:
The statement about SEMI-TRUCKS and motorhomeS is sort of whats called in language a "metaphor".
The motorhomeS and semiS and 25+ personnel servicing, and the new motors installed every day IS ILLUSTRATIVE OF THE CONTRAST WITH ALL THE OTHER COMPETITORS--ALL NOT JUST ME---and had you been to a US rally, and had any eyes, you'd know that and if you were trying to discuss you'd understand that.

But alas, you don't and you aren't.




If absolute glory is your game, and you are upset that you can't win rallys, because someone with more toys turned up, there are plenty of classes out there for you to win.

Sweet bleedin jeeezuz, you keep projecting your internal; thought processes.

Yes Cannyboy I know there's classes NOW and have been various classes tried in the past.
.
I support the classes that I believe are most sustainable.

I've won a US National in my class, Cannyboy, with a car I built the motor, the gearbox the cage, the shell, the suspension, the exhaust etc.

You done that, Cannyboy?

I've built the engine and supplied all the rally bits, the close ratio box, the 5.15 ring and pinion, the nice all steel LSD, the shocks and springs, the nice brakes, all the bits for a friend who won the National title in our Gp2 one year, and supplied parts in the motor to other friends who one the National Gp2 title the year before that.

You done that Cannyboy?

I'm not out for glory, you silly boy, there's none for anything you do here and you twit there's more reasons for doing things than your simpleminded reasons.


I spend my time between ireland and the us,

Yep, I guessed it. And is it still Boston?



and can see what leads to the success and failure of both regions.

The biggest problem that US rallying has is this fixation on a national championship, before getting the regional stuff down.

fawk me!!! christ on the cross we agree about something!!!!!!
So for the second time, tell me how Block's made-for-TV-reality-show antics helps solve the problems of undersupported regional rallys and hypped up inherent in the US "Towing" Championship?



The cost of cars pale in to insignificance

Uh yeah everybody I know doesn't blink an eye at spending $60-80,000 buying and prepping a car.
How much you spend on your rallycar and prep?




when rallies involve many days off work, and huge distances to travel.
Well a Cannyboy like you who is serious can do that easily, what are you complaining about?
So for the third time, tell me how Block's made-for-TV-reality-show antics helps solve the problems of undersupported regional rallys and hypped up inherent in the US "Towing" Championship?



You seem to be so close to having a clue sometimes but then shatter it all with this nonsense which follows.



The rallycross scene is growing in the us - why? Because you have a series on your doorstep that is accessably to the masses. Not some rally that is 20 hours and 5 days off work away. Rallycross in my region has to turn away competitors now becasue of the popularity. Imagine that, - soming involving rallying in the US that has too many entries! It can happen. And the huge variety of cars is the reason why spectators even turn out.


Now we know you can't be taken seriously.
Dear readers be aware that in USA the words "rallycross" was appropriated from the insane spectacular crazy show we all know---and respect, and applied to a competition of driving around on grass or dirt fields primarily in first and second gear--or max 65-70 km/hr according to the guidelines---with 98% of the entries in their daily driver cars on stock suspension and mostly on stock street tires.
It is easy, cheap and quick, with no effort to do it, and therefore popular with the consumer mentality in America. Events are sometimes over 80% Subarus since every WRX or STI driver imagines they are the next Colin McRea, and if they go trash around in a field the Subie boys can then go in forums and brag about their "rally-racecar" and how they "won the big rally!"
.
Gawd we're stuffed when people such as Cannyboy here attempt to associate playing in a grass field in second gear with rally.


I repeat...

"Not jealous" - "Hollow successes" Say it all.
You expect to win rallys in a battered old golf. Unfrortunatly, it's 2008, not 1987, and the world has moved on.

Silly Cannyboy, I think everybody else understands that, and that I'm not suggesting anythiung about winning overall in "Battered old Golf"

But if you expect people to belive that a overall win when one team is literally spending 10 or 20 times what the NEXT team is, and 50 or 60 times what the majority of the Clubbie guys prentending to be "Pros" spend actually is a credible result or shows superior DRIVER skills then I think you've been hitting the Jamesons a bit too hard.


To be even ranting about other guys who have power steering just shows how bitter you are - Power steering ffs. Again, it's 2008!

Look, I thought canny meant "sorta clever", iddnit? Well Cannyboy my reference was that I made a good living for a couple of seasons getting paid pretty good doing International Moto-cross full time from one end of Europe to the next and even as far as South Africa.
See?
No?
They paid me, I was full time, and moto-croos is far FAR more physical, and moto-cross bikes don't have power steering.

Got it now Cannyboy? I was saying I'm not jealous of some guy, any guy, driving a car for a few minutes at a time.
Relatively speaking driving cars is easier, and as we see in the videos---remeber the subject of this thread?---even a guy who is appallingly slow in the few select PWRC events entered---can with enough editing and enough re-takes, make it look "exciting".

I am often impressed with the videos I see of Finland's GroupF drivers. But the subject here you seem to have forgotten is your claim that Ken Block and this type of antics is the Saviour of US Rally.

And you were going to explain just how that is supposed to work...........


If ken has more toys than you, perhaps you can ask santa for more this christmas, or just pipe down, and get on with your own rallying and enjoy the sport. There is no need for the level of bitterness between competitors that you are demonstrating.

Wait, who are you to tell anybody on a discussion forum
to pipe down?
I don't understand.



The clubman needs the big boys as much as the big boys need the clubman.
It's the same in the wrc, ireland or whatever other country out there that is trying to increase the popularity of rallying. It's an expensive sport to begin with. I assume you have more money than some other competitors - would you expect them to be on line ranting about you?

In places where there is an actual normal structure of rallying with 'closed to club", district, regional and National series, I'd agree that there is a place for all and the is a perceived benefit of having "Big Budget" guys around. but thats talking about something like a pyramid shape with the few top guys and a broader mid and a very broad base.
In USA we have something looking more like a big tack:a big shiny bright top and a skinny little "rest of them at all levels" completely in the shadows--regardless of their results.

As for more money than some, sorry, I was always the cheapest bastid around--but since my work is building motors and boxes and cars, I could do events far cheaper than others. And they way i return something to "motorsport" in general is by instructing newbies how to build motors, how to WELD, how to use resources to figure out things like brakes and suspension, and I make extremely affordable parts.


Fair play to ken et al for trying to increase the exposure of a sport that has been mismanaged in the US for years. They may have money, but they also have passion, which is what all rallymen should have in common. You should see them as a help and not a threat, and welcome them to the sport as you would any competitor.

Sorry cannyboy, you're dragging out the ol' "Top down" or "trickle down" argument.
Well it's bollocks in politics and it hasn't ever worked here in the last 30 years, sohow's MORE publicity, and theoretically more sponsorship to Block goinmg to help me or my 15 -20 rally buddies get to events and pay the $1200 entries--just to be ignored?


Still, I commend you for being so bitter while posting your name on line. If I see you coming down a stage, I'll stand extra well back, as you may not be able to see the road properly with the green bile of jealousy filling your helmet, and your rage may force you off the road, and the lack of power steering will make it that little bit harder to save the moment.

I do have powersteering in my current car silly sod, nice 909 Ford 1,9 turns GpA rack.
I post my name online because I am not a coward.
Sorry, Cannyboy. :(


[Colombo voice on]
Oh yeah, there's just one thing I don't understand, maybe you can help me with it.......can tell me how Block's made-for-TV-reality-show antics helps solve the problems of under-supported regional rallys and hyped up inherent in the US "Towing" Championship? [/Colombo voice off]

[Tomi]

Mr. Vurpa did you drive in 250cc? And what years did you drive?

[cannyboy]

It appears that you are cross that people with more money have come along and stolen your glory. You still have not demonstrated any harm they cause.

There is no credible championship on the planet where you can just turn up in battered old junk and expect to compete for overall victory.
There is a level of equipment required to win, and there is a cost associated with that.

I suggest you take up banger racing of demolition derby or something if that is what you are looking for.

And if kens video gets a few more kids interested in the sport, it can't be bad.
It's not doing any harm, which is why your ranting here makes you come off as bitter and petty.

They have done a damn site more for the profile of the sport in the last few years than your ranting on an internet forum.


The funniest bit ranting about rallycross.


Dear readers be aware that in USA the words "rallycross" was appropriated from the insane spectacular crazy show we all know---and respect, and applied to a competition of driving around on grass or dirt fields primarily in first and second gear--or max 65-70 km/hr according to the guidelines---with 98% of the entries in their daily driver cars on stock suspension and mostly on stock street tires.
It is easy, cheap and quick, with no effort to do it, and therefore popular with the consumer mentality in America. Events are sometimes over 80% Subarus since every WRX or STI driver imagines they are the next Colin McRea, and if they go trash around in a field the Subie boys can then go in forums and brag about their "rally-racecar" and how they "won the big rally!"


You fail to see the irony of belittling that element of the sport, attacking it's simple rules, and then you loose a nut over block and co coming along and making your setup look simple and antiquated. Talk about double standards!

It's a stepping stone for many young people to put a toe in the water before commiting to a full rally car, and is where the future of us rally drivers will graduate from. I commend those who are trying to grow this program, growing it on a regional basis with an eye on the future.

You want rallying at a level that suits you and no one else. I commend your stubbornness, but don't go swinging a dick about a being national class champion in the us back in the day. Lets be fair, I'd be suprised if more than 4 drivers in your class completed all the championship rounds, and as a general rule of thumb, boasting on line about yourself is never a good idea.


If guys like block have better eqipment that you, it shouldn't preclude you from doing well, and should be seen as a challange.
Just as Stig Blomquist when he got that skoda to third overall in the rac.
There are many examples of giant killing performances over the years by exceptional drivers. What they have in common is that they drive the wheels off the equipment they have got, not the equipment they have not got, and let their driving do the talking.

Perhaps you should stick to that mantra.

[janvanvurpa]

Mr. Vurpa did you drive in 250cc? And what years did you drive? 250cc Husqvarna from 1970 thru 1975, 250 KTM 75-76, mostly in Sweden and then when doing Internationals mostly in France it was 500 class so KTM in 77, Husqvarna in 1979, retired and moved in back here in the far corner of the Pacific North West and did long distance enduros on Husqvarna till 1984 when I started with rally in a nice Saab 96. I figured you don't get so beaten up in a car and you don't get rained on in 4 degree weather....so it must be easier!
Still have my second 96, the first one died a horrible crumpled up death in the woods while practicing!!! Oi oi oi!
My second 96 was the last Saab 96 to rally in the last WRC event before homologation expired in December 1986. we DNF with ring and pinion failure on 3rd day just past half way point, but got to watch the Juha K and Markku Alen in the last GpB event and they fought down to the last stage!

Never made it to Finland but I always wanted to go to Hyvinkää and Ruskeasanta and I wanted to do Päijänne Runt! One of my freinds who helped me get settled in Sweden won that several times: Hans ''Hasse'' Ericsson from AMF Södertälje.

Why you ask?

[Tomi]

Never made it to Finland but I always wanted to go to Hyvinkää and Ruskeasanta and I wanted to do Päijänne Runt! One of my freinds who helped me get settled in Sweden won that several times: Hans ''Hasse'' Ericsson from AMF Södertälje.

Why you ask?

Just because i did go often to watch motocross to Ruskeasanta, and did wonder if you maybe was there driving too, it's a pity motocross is quite down here now at the moment, then it was much better, btw 1 my friend did same like you collecting start money in central europe, he did drive sidecar motocross, thats a quite tough sport also.
Only machochists do Päijänne, exteremly tough and always in difficult conditions.

[janvanvurpa]

Just because i did go often to watch motocross to Ruskeasanta, and did wonder if you maybe was there driving too, it's a pity motocross is quite down here now at the moment, then it was much better, btw 1 my friend did same like you collecting start money in central europe, he did drive sidecar motocross, thats a quite tough sport also.
Only machochists do Päijänne, exteremly tough and always in difficult conditions.

Oh Okej! I really wanted to do the Finnish events but officially when i was resident in Sweden I was for all purposes a Sweden and you don't just show up at events, the entry went thru the club, and my 'lagledare' was a lazy bastid who didnät want to follow thru even after i had read the rules and saw it was OK to start in Finland with a Svemo licence and had contacted the clubs in Finland.
And since the tracks were sand and i was pretty good on sand I thought ''Voi vito! Do an event in the home of Heikki Mikkola!''

Now sidecars is something that i rate as maschochistic, man.

And the real love was always long distance hard events in the woods, that's what used to be the attraction of rally.

And in a way what you say about moto-cross being down in Finland ---and Sweden as well as the US is linked to this silly discussion about "spectacle" being what's needed to "save the sport"vs larger participation being what's needed.
Moto-cross, like rally, used to be far more popular in PARTICIPATION when it was longer and harder, just like moto-cross, but as the years went and more and more artificial and "made-for-TV" stuff was introduced, it slowly evolved into a mere spectacle, and less people DID the sport, even if more watched on TV.
The sense of 'identification' with the guy doing it is gone and one spectacle is replaced with a push on the TV remote with another made up spectacle.

The German guy RXguru said it a day or so ago, "Und was hat Kunstdünger (artificial fertilizer) mit Kunst (art) zu tun?"
He's being very polite with his translation!

[jonas_mcrae]

@ WRCfan: If you don't get my point I can't help. But you should quote me propperly – at least...

I guess you have never been to my country to understand what I'am talking about.

Every Friday and Saturday night the amount of driving licence newbies producing very bad traffic accidents over here is incredible. Drinkdriving or not, it is nearly always a question of trying to ignore all laws of physics. And that video makes a lot of fools believe that handling a car is just child's play.

hahaha you think the amount of drink driving in Germany is alarming? give me a break. Go to Mexico or any other 3rd world country and you will see what really bad drunk driving is. And even more important, you dont go and drink drive because you see a guy messing around in a Subaru, you do it because of lack of safe driving culture and lack of brains.
If motorsport was causing so much trouble everywhere in the world (because people do crash in every country, even Switzerland) someone would've prohibited dont you think? Your argument is the weakest in the whole discussion me thinks.

[Tomi]

''Voi vito! Do an event in the home of Heikki Mikkola!''
Funny, I met Mikkola a few years ago at Dubai airport, he also has an old Husqvarna he rides now and then, else too he looked to be still in top trim.
Ruskeasanta would sure have suited you fine, almost like beach sand.

[Daniel]

Enough of the nostalgia. Can we go back to arguing please? :D

[Tomi]

Enough of the nostalgia. Can we go back to arguing please? :D

sorry a little about motorsport in this topic also ;)

[RAS007]

Why is this topic even in the WRC forum? Ken Block has nothing to do with WRC.

[WRCfan]

@ WRCfan: If you don't get my point I can't help. But you should quote me propperly – at least...

I guess you have never been to my country to understand what I'am talking about.

Every Friday and Saturday night the amount of driving licence newbies producing very bad traffic accidents over here is incredible. Drinkdriving or not, it is nearly always a question of trying to ignore all laws of physics. And that video makes a lot of fools believe that handling a car is just child's play.

You guess wrong I have been to Germany and travelled on your roads. You think Germany has bad accident rates? Come driving in my country. No different to yours except your roads are in MUCH better condition. Motorsport doesn't lead to people drink driving, nor does it lead to causing road accidents. It's people who are not smart and alert enough who have accidents and they catch innocent people up in them...

[JAM]

LOL I just saw this. What a load of rubbish.

Compared to your rubbish, our rubbish is nothing. Can you please post on this subject in a way that we can't see? It would be a huge help. :D

[rx-guru]

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't le me be misunderstood!

@ jonas_mcrae: The Block video does not show motorsport, it just shows a stunt show with a car. And his video does not lead youngsters to go drink driving, as you try to interpret my words, IMO it makes some driving licence newbies wrongly believe that one can do much more with a car than physics allow.

@ WRCfan: I don't think Germany has bad accident rates. I know that Germany has too bad accident rates of people that are 18 to about 25 years old and have simply poor driving experience. The same group of people that possibly likes Block's video most...? And that the majority of this accidents happen after their disco, pub, bar etc. visits on Friday and Saturday nights. Many times several youngsters killed in one car only and their accidents are always rated by the police as "due to inappropriate speed" and/or "due to drink driving".

How to buy UGG sheepskin boots?Everyone who wear the UGG sheepskin boots will get many benefits. UGG boots are made to be worn barefoot as they will form to your feet and provide natural arch support. When buying a pair of sheepskin boots or ugg boots (premier brand in luxury and comfort footwear), there are many things to look for:First of all, you must make sure your sheepskin boots are actually made out of 100% authentic sheep skin. Some manufacturers use cheap substitutes such as gluing synthetic wool on to cow hide. These imitation sheepskin boots come at a cheaper price tag, but unfortunately the less expensive alternatives may cause skin irritations, encourage bacteria growth, wear down, tear quickly and noticeably less comfortable. http://www.shoppingugg.com When buying sheepskin boots, make sure they are manufactured from quality Australian Merino wool. Australian Merino sheepskin boots are considered the best material for making sheepskin boots and it also ensures that you will be able to use them for many years. Authentic wool also allows your feet to breathe and help reduce feet sweating. Merino sheep skin is by and large thicker and much more durable than other kinds of sheep skin, which helps your boots keep their shape as well as resist wear and tear. By purchasing sheepskin boots made from merino wool and sheep skin, you will be guaranteed that not only will they be the most comfortable pair of sheepskin boots you'll ever own, but they will also last for a long time to come. I have included some links if you would like to learn more about sheepskin boots or youwant to know where can buy some UGG Boots - Australia markets the premier brand in luxury and comfort. Their many products fit into your every day life offering you products that are fashionable, comfortable, and attainable.Ugg Boots have been made and worn in Australia/China for over 50 years and "Ugg" is not associated with any brand or style of sheepskin boot. So if your looking for real australian made ugg boots look no further than Shopping Ugg See our full range of Cardy UGG Boots (http://www.shoppingugg.com/cardi-ugg-boots), Classic Short UGG Boots (http://www.shoppingugg.com/classic-short-ugg-boots), Classic Tall UGG Boots (http://www.shoppingugg.com/classic-tall-ugg-boots), Metallic UGG Boots (http://www.shoppingugg.com/metallic-ugg-boots), Sundance UGG Boots and now even new Mini UGG Boots (http://www.shoppingugg.com/mini-ugg-boots)then you can find all the love from australia right here.

[userwave]

+1

Ken Block is a frigging moron. Someone needs to tell him that he is not a rally driver.


you might have a valid point there :D

[WRCfan]

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't le me be misunderstood!

@ jonas_mcrae: The Block video does not show motorsport, it just shows a stunt show with a car. And his video does not lead youngsters to go drink driving, as you try to interpret my words, IMO it makes some driving licence newbies wrongly believe that one can do much more with a car than physics allow.

@ WRCfan: I don't think Germany has bad accident rates. I know that Germany has too bad accident rates of people that are 18 to about 25 years old and have simply poor driving experience. The same group of people that possibly likes Block's video most...? And that the majority of this accidents happen after their disco, pub, bar etc. visits on Friday and Saturday nights. Many times several youngsters killed in one car only and their accidents are always rated by the police as "due to inappropriate speed" and/or "due to drink driving".

I see your point about young idiots going out after the pub and wrapping their car around a tree. It doesn't just happen in your corner of the world, it happens everywhere. This is a global problem as powerful cars get cheaper and 'snap on additions' get more accessible to the general public for lower costs.

The difference between them and Ken is that Ken goes and does this in a controlled situation. He can go and burn rubber and do skids like these young kids do if it is his wish. However he doesn't contribute to this problem as he isn't being shown publicly power-sliding on roads which the general public uses...

[Sulland]

I am nor sure how good he is campared to the P-WRC elite, but drive a car he can !! Some of those stunts are hard to do.

But if this is a way to raise the Rally interest in USA - Go Ken !

We need more americans too understand and enjoy our sport, and maybe the US Champ will be able to compete with the europeans, not only for show, but also for results !!

[SubaruNorway]

New video is out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ7R_buZPSo

[wotaguy]

he is a regular contender in the american/canadian championship, and as mentioned done pwrc along with travis pastrana , (who was a freestyle biker), yeh its not rallying but ,so what colin did X games (extreme sports) few years back nobody complained about that , and monster energy along with rockstar is sold in u.k.

[Daniel]

When someone finds a video with Ken driving a car fast down a narrow road and getting top 5 stagetimes against world class drivers then give me a yell :) I saw similar stuff when I went to the Race of Champions in 2007...... it was called a support act :laugh:

[Mirek]

It's ing crazy and in some way ridiculous. But it's commercial and no kind of racing. I don't see any point in comparing to rallying.

[SubaruNorway]

Yeah i knew i shouldn't have bothered to post it here :rolleyes:

(don't bother to comment on those old comments from 2008 now)

[Mirek]

Don't worry, there are still people who like to watch some crazy stuff from Ken ;)

[Daniel]

Yeah i knew i shouldn't have bothered to post it here :rolleyes:

(don't bother to comment on those old comments from 2008 now)
Boohoo! People didn't like my comment and posted their opinions!

[SubaruNorway]

No, because they are so ing childish and lame!

[cannyboy]

When someone finds a video with Ken driving a car fast down a narrow road and getting top 5 stagetimes against world class drivers then give me a yell :) I saw similar stuff when I went to the Race of Champions in 2007...... it was called a support act :laugh:

Matt Wilson can get a top 5 stage time in wrc ffs

If Subaru gets more exposure from a couple of cheap internet vids that years in the wrc, the wrc really needs to get it's act together.

[janvanvurpa]

When someone finds a video with Ken driving a car fast down a narrow road and getting top 5 stagetimes against world class drivers then give me a yell :) I saw similar stuff when I went to the Race of Champions in 2007...... it was called a support act :laugh:

When someone finds a video of Block doing top 5 stage times in a Finnish F-cup car against ordinary F-cup drivers, then give me a yell.

[bowler]

fantastic video.

I bet Ken had a blast making it.

Very good for Rallying in a country that isn't rally oriented.

So what if the purists decry it, it sends a rally-subaru message out that looks cool.

[wotaguy]

way to go bowler,exactly it was a driver having a bit of fun, doing stunts or jumps whatever in a rally car .if it had been an ordinary car, they,d be no arguement

[MrJan]

I can't understand why everyone is up in arms about these videos. Okay so it's not rallying and it's not real autotesting but it's f***ing difficult to do and as Block is a rally driver I don't see a problem with posting it here.

Some people really need to loosen up a bit and stop being so stuffy about things like this, slag the WRC off for all it's craptacular grandness but these videos aren't trying to be anything other than an impressive visual display and they certainly manage that IMO.

[Daniel]

I can't understand why everyone is up in arms about these videos. Okay so it's not rallying and it's not real autotesting but it's f***ing difficult to do and as Block is a rally driver I don't see a problem with posting it here.

Some people really need to loosen up a bit and stop being so stuffy about things like this, slag the WRC off for all it's craptacular grandness but these videos aren't trying to be anything other than an impressive visual display and they certainly manage that IMO.
The thing is though that anyone can be a rally driver? You put a cage in your MR2 and put some rally tyres on it and it's a rally car and you're a rally driver. Sure what he's doing is spectacular. But the essence of rallying for me is driving skill and driving in an environment where your mistakes are punished.

All Ken Block is doing is turning public perceptions of rallying in North American into some kind of sk8er boi exhibition sport which is so far removed from special stage rallying that it probably deserves a different name.

You can argue that Ken is attracting people to rallying. But do any of Kens videos actually show any rallying as such? Not that I've seen.

Also, when he actually seems to compete against a decent field of drivers he's outclassed pretty much every time.

Give me the millions that Ken has and give me his car and all the time he has to practice and I could make the same video. But I still won't be a Loeb or probably even a Freddy Loix and neither will Ken.

and in other news here's a skilled driver driving in a spectacular fashion on a proper bit of road.

J-K1B4sTX4o

[L5->R5/CR]

You can argue that Ken is attracting people to rallying. But do any of Kens videos actually show any rallying as such? Not that I've seen.

http://rally.subaru.com/concord.html take a gander at that Dan.

[gloomyDAY]

http://rally.subaru.com/concord.html take a gander at that Dan.Pshhh....that's not rallying. :p

What's everyone's beef? Yes, neither Pastrana or Block have the talent to compete with top WRC contenders, but they still rally. Just because they hold exhibitions doesn't mean they don't enjoy the sport or are trying to corrupt rallying. I was there in Rally Mexio 2007 when Travis was 5 minutes off the pace and I'm still a fan of his team.

Both Travis and Ken are promoting rallying and people are being receptive. That's a far cry from the current WRC.

[Daniel]

http://rally.subaru.com/concord.html take a gander at that Dan.
Much more impressive IMHO. I've still seen better though, much better. But if he was posting videos like that on youtube I'd find it far more interesting and morerally related than the two videos he's done

[janvanvurpa]

Pshhh....that's not rallying. :p

What's everyone's beef? Yes, neither Pastrana or Block have the talent to compete with top WRC contenders, but they still rally. Just because they hold exhibitions doesn't mean they don't enjoy the sport or are trying to corrupt rallying. I was there in Rally Mexio 2007 when Travis was 5 minutes off the pace and I'm still a fan of his team.

Both Travis and Ken are promoting rallying and people are being receptive. That's a far cry from the current WRC.


They are promoting a particular viusion of rally, their vision says: We'll do it YOU do what you're supposed to and merely sit on your lard bums and consume this vision.
If we believe that these hype vids are effective then they must be effective at selling a message that wannabe white "gangsta" boys with endless resources is what's needed to participate.

Since the USA and Canada both suffer from minuscule entries with just a few score of people--possibly as little as 200 active cars for both whole countries together---and as such the sport is totally dominated by anybody with a buget to build extremely expensive cars and get to events, I say videos of thing like this does nothing to HELP the sport here if the numbers of entries continues to fall as it has all during the 00ies once the British (DHiggins, MHiggins and RIP Lovell) went home.
Because the only thing that will help the sport is more entries regardless of what they are driving

(Look at the meager numbers of entries at any US so called "National Championship" and you'll see less than many "Closed to club" events can fetch. 20-30 cars total in a country of 307,000,000 is a poor joke)

So if these type of orchestrated, made for You Tube, extravagant production videos are helping the sport then how could it happen that for example in out Pacific North West season opening event last year while waiting to drive in to a spectator point I was talking to a kid in the "target demographic" who had navigated the 57 miles from the last town, (and that town was 110 miles from Seattle) and so we know he was motivated enough to drive a long way to watch BUT!!! when I asked "what would it take to make you want to build your Golf and get out there and get sideways?" his answer was (and it inarguably illustrates the problem with this mindless promotion) "I can't rally a Golf, it's not turbo 4wd!".
It was a flat statement, he KNEW, he was not asking, nothing betrayed any sense of doubt.
The last 9 years of promotion had failed.

(And I wonder what he thought if he saw the event was very nearly won overall by one friend in his VW Golf--till a last stage fuel pump failure at which point another friend in his 240 Volvo turbo won Overall beating 17-18 Subarus in the process)

The association of rallying with these type of blather does nothing for the sport here.
(Really what good does the sport of rally get if that some 13 year old boy in some sterile suburb in some horrible US city sees Kenny doing this and he is "impressed"?)


Oi Daniel, I used that same "Cloud Dance " video to illustrate what a nice job of producing and editing a piece of REAL action looks like on several forums here in the US.
Good choice there

[cannyboy]

Think you guys are missing the point.
The original got millions of views.
That means sales.

That is what motorsport is supposed to do, but the wrc with it's 700,000 euro cars is not what rallying is about, and does nothing to sell cars.
C4 anyone? Bog standard focus?

Blocks car runs the standard gearbox and shows how a spectular car can be made on the cheap.

We need a grp n + with cars like Blocks, to save rallying.
Big noise and spectacle, more power than control, and done on the cheap.

The wrc could learn a lot about promotion from Block.

Say what you want, the wrc in it's current state is not attracting viewers. Videos like this do.
The wrc has better drivers, so why the hell are we not promoting the sport with spectacular cars and the best drivers in the world?

For those die hard "fans" who knock things like this, are you happy that the wrc is killing itself? If you have outrage, it's the management of the wrc that you should be aiming your ire at.

With the US probably downsizing it's cars in the near future due to nationalizations, rallying has an ideal opportunity to be used as a tool to demonstrate the capability of smaller cars.

And being condesending to new fans of the sport who may not know as much as die hards is not going to grow the sports fan base.

[gloomyDAY]

Think you guys are missing the point.
The original got millions of views.
That means sales.

That is what motorsport is supposed to do, but the wrc with it's 700,000 euro cars is not what rallying is about, and does nothing to sell cars.
C4 anyone? Bog standard focus?

Blocks car runs the standard gearbox and shows how a spectular car can be made on the cheap.

We need a grp n + with cars like Blocks, to save rallying.
Big noise and spectacle, more power than control, and done on the cheap.

The wrc could learn a lot about promotion from Block.

Say what you want, the wrc in it's current state is not attracting viewers. Videos like this do.
The wrc has better drivers, so why the hell are we not promoting the sport with spectacular cars and the best drivers in the world?

For those die hard "fans" who knock things like this, are you happy that the wrc is killing itself? If you have outrage, it's the management of the wrc that you should be aiming your ire at.

With the US probably downsizing it's cars in the near future due to nationalizations, rallying has an ideal opportunity to be used as a tool to demonstrate the capability of smaller cars.

And being condesending to new fans of the sport who may not know as much as die hards is not going to grow the sports fan base.Hear, hear.

Beautiful post.

[RallyCat909]

I had a short conversation with Block at 100 Acre Wood Rally in Missouri. We talked about the Lancia Delta S4. He was obviously in love with rallying and I was one of the main proponents of hating him. Rednecks kids in Oklahoma are wanting to go to rallies because of this 'media circus' and spectaror points are getting bigger at every US rally while the WRC has two factory teams. The 'old days' will always be better, Im sure people thought Colin Mcrae was a moron in his 'Colin Mcrash' days.

Perspective is a funny thing.

[AndyRAC]

Think you guys are missing the point.
The original got millions of views.
That means sales.

That is what motorsport is supposed to do, but the wrc with it's 700,000 euro cars is not what rallying is about, and does nothing to sell cars.
C4 anyone? Bog standard focus?

Blocks car runs the standard gearbox and shows how a spectular car can be made on the cheap.

We need a grp n + with cars like Blocks, to save rallying.
Big noise and spectacle, more power than control, and done on the cheap.

The wrc could learn a lot about promotion from Block.

Say what you want, the wrc in it's current state is not attracting viewers. Videos like this do.
The wrc has better drivers, so why the hell are we not promoting the sport with spectacular cars and the best drivers in the world?

For those die hard "fans" who knock things like this, are you happy that the wrc is killing itself? If you have outrage, it's the management of the wrc that you should be aiming your ire at.

With the US probably downsizing it's cars in the near future due to nationalizations, rallying has an ideal opportunity to be used as a tool to demonstrate the capability of smaller cars.

And being condesending to new fans of the sport who may not know as much as die hards is not going to grow the sports fan base.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

The sport is killing itself - still confusion over the new regs S2000/S1600T, calendar, etc
Currently, it's not attractive to prospective new Manufacturers.

[jparker]

Think you guys are missing the point.
The original got millions of views.
That means sales.

That is what motorsport is supposed to do, but the wrc with it's 700,000 euro cars is not what rallying is about, and does nothing to sell cars.
C4 anyone? Bog standard focus?

Blocks car runs the standard gearbox and shows how a spectular car can be made on the cheap.

We need a grp n + with cars like Blocks, to save rallying.
Big noise and spectacle, more power than control, and done on the cheap.

The wrc could learn a lot about promotion from Block.

Say what you want, the wrc in it's current state is not attracting viewers. Videos like this do.
The wrc has better drivers, so why the hell are we not promoting the sport with spectacular cars and the best drivers in the world?

For those die hard "fans" who knock things like this, are you happy that the wrc is killing itself? If you have outrage, it's the management of the wrc that you should be aiming your ire at.

With the US probably downsizing it's cars in the near future due to nationalizations, rallying has an ideal opportunity to be used as a tool to demonstrate the capability of smaller cars.

And being condesending to new fans of the sport who may not know as much as die hards is not going to grow the sports fan base.

I agree with you, and I have mentioned that US rally championship can be used as example of what spectacular, but no so expansive car should look like. But, Ken Block is doing as much bad as the good. He's giving wrong impression to people what rally sport is all about, and that's wrong.

[Daniel]

Think you guys are missing the point.
The original got millions of views.
That means sales.

That is what motorsport is supposed to do, but the wrc with it's 700,000 euro cars is not what rallying is about, and does nothing to sell cars.
C4 anyone? Bog standard focus?

Blocks car runs the standard gearbox and shows how a spectular car can be made on the cheap.

We need a grp n + with cars like Blocks, to save rallying.
Big noise and spectacle, more power than control, and done on the cheap.

The wrc could learn a lot about promotion from Block.

Say what you want, the wrc in it's current state is not attracting viewers. Videos like this do.
The wrc has better drivers, so why the hell are we not promoting the sport with spectacular cars and the best drivers in the world?

For those die hard "fans" who knock things like this, are you happy that the wrc is killing itself? If you have outrage, it's the management of the wrc that you should be aiming your ire at.

With the US probably downsizing it's cars in the near future due to nationalizations, rallying has an ideal opportunity to be used as a tool to demonstrate the capability of smaller cars.

And being condesending to new fans of the sport who may not know as much as die hards is not going to grow the sports fan base.

Well I'm not so sure that this particular car is a standard GroupN car.

Sure the video is spectacular, I'm not denying that, but if you look at the video L5->R5/CR posted and then compare it with some classic WRCar or GroupA footage from the 90's then it's still not quite up there for spectacle.

There are certainly problems with the WRC but the last thing the WRC needs is to be promoted as some kind of extreme sport which in a way it already is. It needs to go back to its roots of being a test of car and driver. Going down to groupN+ cars will just make stagetimes slower.

[MrJan]

The thing is though that anyone can be a rally driver? You put a cage in your MR2 and put some rally tyres on it and it's a rally car and you're a rally driver.

Unless I change the suspension I''ll be a rally driver with a broken back :D


You can argue that Ken is attracting people to rallying. But do any of Kens videos actually show any rallying as such? Not that I've seen.

I could, but I didn't. I'm just saying that it looked spectacular and that the WRC forum is as good a place to post the videos as any :) I never claimed it was rallying or even that it promoted the sport.



Well I'm not so sure that this particular car is a standard GroupN car.

:up: Didn't the caption say that it had some huge amouth of power? That thing is extremely tricked out :)

I'm also not convinced that Group N is the way forward. I was out on the Somerset Stages the other month and it wasn't the Group N Evos that people wanted to see but Andy Burton's 306 Cosworth. The way to promote the WRC is to bring back Group B, that'd get people back out on the stages :D

[JFL]

A gr.N car can still drift, but it doe'snt produce that kind of speed an smoke..
Anyways, what Mr.Block is doing here is what almost every driver has done for the sponsors, just in a much bigger scale!
This is mr.Solberg showing off to his fans in a Gr.n car.. It' not rally, but the crowd loves it, and so does he..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmy3AXqhILI

[wotaguy]

ditto that hear hear, for cannyboy, im glad most people have seen this video, for what it is abit of fun, i simply in my mind cannot believe this gives wrong impression of rallying, , he does stunts, and this "gymkana" in his rallycar all the time, maybe it was for sponsers, he is afterall sponsered by monster energy an "extreme " drink.
i enjoy watching the american/canadian rallies on tv, they have great rallies, ok not well supported entries wise, but still rallies nonethe less, and to compare drivers like ken, to loeb isnt a fair comparrision, ive been going to rallies since 1982, and the wrc always bouces back from near disaster but will agree with many on this forum, a new management team is needed,

[WRCfan]

This video isn't rallying, it's gymkhana.

It is nothing more than a promotional video for his sponsors, DC, and himself.

He didn't claim at any point in the video THIS IS RALLYING.

Enjoy the video for what it is.

Stop whinging and deal with it, it's very well made from a media point of view so all the rallying purists should just chill out...

[jparker]

This video isn't rallying, it's gymkhana.

It is nothing more than a promotional video for his sponsors, DC, and himself.

He didn't claim at any point in the video THIS IS RALLYING.

Enjoy the video for what it is.

Stop whinging and deal with it, it's very well made from a media point of view so all the rallying purists should just chill out...

By using rally looking car, he's shouting THIS IS RALLYING, but I'm calm in any case ;)

[cali]

By using rally looking car, he's shouting THIS IS RALLYING, but I'm calm in any case ;)
Oh dear.... :dozey:

[L5->R5/CR]

ditto that hear hear, for cannyboy, im glad most people have seen this video, for what it is abit of fun, i simply in my mind cannot believe this gives wrong impression of rallying, , he does stunts, and this "gymkana" in his rallycar all the time, maybe it was for sponsers, he is afterall sponsered by monster energy an "extreme " drink.



That is not his rally car in either of his videos (it is his rally car in the one I linked).

They are purpose built play things. They are graphically similar to his rally car because they are used as promotional tools to help increase the RoI on the sponsorship he receives. The whole point of these cars existing is for him to have fun and show off his sponsors to different groups of people...

I'm not trying to defend, just sharing some information so the lambasting by the European contingent can at least be accurate...

[cannyboy]

I would imagine the video came about like this.
He did video 1. Lets just say 20 million people took two five minutes out of their day to watch it.

Subaru saw the numbers, and went, Oh my god, look at all this publicity on a car we don't even sell anymore.
They prob wrote Block a big cheque and begged him to do it with the hatchback.

Hence video 2.

Try finding a top notch wrc video produced in the last 10 years about the wrc? A professionally done, spectacular short video that could be used to promote the sport. There are none, bar a few some kids threw together in a basement off stock footage from the tv....

We sit around watching helicopter shots of climb dance, which is over 20 years old. Why the hell are the wrc not producing wrc videos like this to promote their product?

The WRC/Rally could be one of the most spectacular sports in the world.
Whenever people who see Blocks video search his name, they'll see rallying.
That will help draw new people to the sport, and even make it "cool" again.

The whole thing prob cost less than a WRC car to produce, including the cost of blocks car, which is a hell of a lot closer to the production car than the WRC machines.

[jparker]

Subaru saw the numbers, and went, Oh my god, look at all this publicity on a car we don't even sell anymore.
They prob wrote Block a big cheque and begged him to do it with the hatchback.

True. I guess I know now why Subaru quit WRC. It's chaper and more effective (in North America at least).

[Mirek]

When talking about commercial films... Do You know, guys, this film from Škoda Motorsport? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u2ueA9HPyQ

[janvanvurpa]

A gr.N car can still drift, but it doe'snt produce that kind of speed an smoke..
Anyways, what Mr.Block is doing here is what almost every driver has done for the sponsors, just in a much bigger scale!
This is mr.Solberg showing off to his fans in a Gr.n car.. It' not rally, but the crowd loves it, and so does he..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmy3AXqhILI


But if like Solberg poikin eller ikke, we know that he actually is a elite driver, so what we see purporting to be fast driving is authentic.
When we watch the carefully edited, "made -for-TV" Blockie-boy stuff we are presented with a media product which suggests, and judging from the comments by what I consider "blå-ögt" (naive?) there are many would believe, that Block is a skilled driver.
And his record is that he's slower by quite literally an HOUR than other PWRC drivers on WRC length events---and is always under "Super-rally" go home for free rules.
That makes him no faster than middle of the pack GruppH boys there in Norway, and that is not particularly impressive. (well from my point of view looking at it the other way, that mid-field GpH guys are as fast as the TOP US and Candian guys is impressive, they are as fast in much simpler cars and on roads much much narrower and "knixiga" than US and Canadian roads)

As spectacle OK, but reality wins in the end, and I talk to new spectators who once they see Blockie and Pastrami's driving in person, they are NOT impressed and not motivated to build cars.

Suggesting the WRC needs to promote "Make believe" videos like Block's and that will "save rally" is folly.

[cannyboy]

No one is saying that block is the greatest rally driver in the world, not even block.
He knows how to promote though, something which the WRC and US rallying for the last 20 years hasn't figured out.

If subaru sells more STI's because of this, subaru has more money to put into their rally team, which is a good thing at the end of the day.

When the sports die hard fans can't see that their sport is dying hard, the sport is being done a disservice.

[SubaruNorway]

That makes him no faster than middle of the pack GruppH boys there in Norway, and that is not particularly impressive.

Nothing called group H in Norway.

[L5->R5/CR]

Nothing called group H in Norway.

But if there was it would be sooper beetching with lots of guys going full waHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH and driving real fast...


Sorry John, couldn't resist...

[janvanvurpa]

Nothing called group H in Norway.

Ooops, din nasjonal klasse.

But I'm certain you knew exactly what was meant, right?

[janvanvurpa]

But if there was it would be sooper beetching with lots of guys going full waHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH and driving real fast...


Sorry John, couldn't resist...


The Norwegian guy was just being a Norwegian about the term, he knows full well what was meant.

[Fide]

I think the good thing this videos have are the ones related to a "fat car". Everybody likes a car with more 500whp, super oversized tires and strong presence like the old and beloved group "b" cars. If you join all of this, doesn´t matter if this is a real rally car or not or even if Ken Block is the worst driver you ever see... We need to recognize the videos are funny, they have punch and they are well made. If on top of that, Subaru is able to sell more STIs.... they are also a really good investment.