2008 Wales Rally GB - official thread

[MJW]

I would like to kick off the 2008 WRGB thread - here is the local forecast for Tuesday at Aberystwyth (recce day for the stages Mid Wales stages). Its light snow showers and 5 degrees daytime, 3 degrees night time, wind from the North.
Aberystyth itself is a seaside town so it should be colder on the mountains.
Here's hoping for a littel bit of winter!

[alexlake]

snow, yeah cool! only been going to rallies/into rallying, since 2003. Always wet in wales, which I don`t mind, but bit of snow would be nice. will be bit cooler than my trips to spain and germany (sooo hot!) this year.

roll on next week, cant wait!!

[Simmi]

Yeah a bit of snow would be nice I agree. I will be in Hafren on Friday morning I'm definately looking forward to it.

I expect Loeb to be on it this year. You have to think he is going to want to win in Wales for the first time. With the drivers title wrapped up I am expecting him to tick off one of the final boxes in his WRC career. Hopefully Citroen wont slow him down to get the manu title like in '03.

[alexlake]

Yeah a bit of snow would be nice I agree. I will be in Hafren on Friday morning I'm definately looking forward to it.

I expect Loeb to be on it this year. You have to think he is going to want to win in Wales for the first time. With the drivers title wrapped up I am expecting him to tick off one of the final boxes in his WRC career. Hopefully Citroen wont slow him down to get the manu title like in '03.

I agree, hoping for a Loeb win, and subaru on the podium :eek: yes, Im a dreamer :dozey: !!!

[pino]

I expect Valentino to finish on podium...no I am not a dreamer :p : ;)

[Simmi]

I expect Valentino to finish on podium...no I am not a dreamer :p : ;)

Why do you think I am spectating at the first stage this year Pino!

[Roy]

Why do you think I am spectating at the first stage this year Pino!

At the first meters I suppose. :D

[Lalo]

I don't think Valentino will finish in case it rains. I hope he gets in the top 10, but it's all up to him and the conditions. The muddyest, the hardest it will be for him.

For some reason, I believe Rossi would do great on asphalt. He has shown speed on the Monza show and in New Zealand, there you get as fast as on tarmac. Hasn't he considered going next year for Corsica or Catalunya rally?

[Allyc85]

Didnt go last year and my car broke down after one stage in 06 so im really looking forward to this rally!

We've decided to keep it simple this year so there's no rushing to stages. On friday it will be both runs through Sweet Lamb Before going to Walters Arena for the night stages, gotta wrap up warm though the forcast is for snow at the moment. Saturday will be both runs through Resolfen, then the stage in the Millennium Stadium and then sunday will be both runs through Port Talbot.

Tickets have cost £111 so far the robbing bast@rds. We wont be going to it next year, we are planning on going to Spain where the stages are free to watch :D

[306 Cosworth]

You sleeping in your car then Ally?

[Allyc85]

lol nope, im going with my mum as usual so it would be a bit cosy, I would do if I was going by myself. We've got a B&B booked for Thursday night, 15 minutes from Sweet Lamb, then we are borrowing a mates house for the more southern stages. The whole cost of the trip will be horrendous by the time we've added in food and fuel,

[Simmi]

I don't think Valentino will finish in case it rains. I hope he gets in the top 10, but it's all up to him and the conditions. The muddyest, the hardest it will be for him.

For some reason, I believe Rossi would do great on asphalt. He has shown speed on the Monza show and in New Zealand, there you get as fast as on tarmac. Hasn't he considered going next year for Corsica or Catalunya rally?

He has to do rallies that dont clash with any MotoGP events or testing so I think this is why we haven't seen him out on these events. He seems fairly keen on rallying so maybe in the future when he gets off the bike he might compete a bit more.

PS. I agree with Allyc85 the ticket prices are pretty horrendous.

[pino]

Why do you think I am spectating at the first stage this year Pino!

If Valentino survives first 2/3 stages he will feel more confident and will surprise many with his talent...and will stay ahead of many proffs ;)

£100 for a Pass ? :eek:

[Barreis]

I expect Valentino to finish on podium...no I am not a dreamer :p : ;)

In what kind of race? 500cc?

[raybak]

I hope Rossi does well, it will be good for the sport. Would be great for Petter to get on the podium.

It's bloody crazy the price of tickets for spectating. We had the issue with spectator prices being too dear here in Canberra for the APRC, when they put on a night stage with free spectating they actually got some spectators out in the forest. The next day when people had to pay they hardly got any spectators.

We have to look at why people are staying away from rallies and do some changes.

Ray

[alexlake]

Tickets have cost £111 so far the robbing bast@rds. We wont be going to it next year, we are planning on going to Spain where the stages are free to watch :D

We are doing wales on the cheap too this year, cause last year it cost me over £500, with tickets, hotel, hire car, fuel food. I done Germany and Spain this year for £600, and they are both better rallys. Real shame no Germany next year cause its sooooo good there! Have to do wales though, its my home event :) :) :rolleyes:

[N.O.T]

the only question i have is who is going to crash first? ogier or sponsor boy ??

[Tomi]

It's bloody crazy the price of tickets for spectating. We had the issue with spectator prices being too dear here in Canberra for the APRC, when they put on a night stage with free spectating they actually got some spectators out in the forest. The next day when people had to pay they hardly got any spectators.

We have to look at why people are staying away from rallies and do some changes.

Ray

Here it's 50€ for a 3day pass, reasonable I think and you get value for the price.

[pino]

Here it's 50€ for a 3day pass, reasonable I think and you get value for the price.

And that's a very reasonable price considering the great quality you get in Finland, but £100 for a WRC event is just crazy :crazy:

[Tomi]

And that's a very reasonable price considering the great quality you get in Finland, but £100 for a WRC event is just crazy :crazy:

Agree normally the championship is over by now also, so there is not so much to see.

[Helstar]

When asked by an italian television about Valentino Rossi (about his possible finish place), Sordo replied "I have more important things to think about" and walk away xD

I guess he's going to check if he's gonna get same Sebastian material from Citroen, must be the reason he has never won a single rally yet, lol ! http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Tomi]

When asked by an italian television about Valentino Rossi (about his possible finish place), Sordo replied "I have more important things to think about" and walk away xD

I guess he's going to check if he's gonna get same Sebastian material from Citroen, must be the reason he has never won a single rally yet, lol ! http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Or it could be just that simple that he is not interested what so ever, how or if rossi finishes.

[AndyRAC]

Like it or loathe it, Rossi is the biggest name in the event - he's giving the event more publicity than it would likely get. Rallying should be doing all it can to keep him in the sport.

[WRCfan]

the only question i have is who is going to crash first? ogier or sponsor boy ??

Was only a matter of time.....

[jbmarcus21]

Google Earth Map of GB Wales Rally : http://planetemarcus.free.fr/cartegoogle08.htm

[euskalteam]

Anyone knows where the remote service A is?

[euskalteam]

The pikcems for GB don't works. Told me that theres a problem with my pickems because I select one driver more that once, and is not true..... :s

[bluuford]

Aava and Rauam (PWRC) will not take part in GB. They are saving funds for next year. So, the entry list loses one top 8 contender.

[pino]

The pikcems for GB don't works. Told me that theres a problem with my pickems because I select one driver more that once, and is not true..... :s

It's been fixed now, thanks for let's know that :)

[Daniel]

Well I'm not going :mark: Just not worth the money.

[Buzz Lightyear]

When asked by an italian television about Valentino Rossi (about his possible finish place), Sordo replied "I have more important things to think about" and walk away xD

I guess he's going to check if he's gonna get same Sebastian material from Citroen, must be the reason he has never won a single rally yet, lol ! http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Well nobody would be interested to see Sordo on a MotoGP bike, so fair is fair.. :)

[Simmi]

Or it could be just that simple that he is not interested what so ever, how or if rossi finishes.

It must be frustrating for a driver to not be asked about your own performance but that of another driver, and a part-time driver at that. Obviously I'm just speculating but you can imagine the Italian media not caring about what Dani has to say normally.

I suppose it is similar to every F1 driver for the past two seasons being asked for their opinion about Hamilton. No wonder they get frustrated at him.

I do agree that Rossi's participation should be seen as a positive.


That's also a shame about Urmo I was looking forward to seeing him this weekend.

[AndyRAC]

Well I'm not going :mark: Just not worth the money.

Daniel, I'm surprised - £90 for a Rally pass is an absolute bargain!! Look at what you get............







.....impressive isn't it?? :laugh: :laugh:

[Daniel]

Daniel, I'm surprised - £90 for a Rally pass is an absolute bargain!! Look at what you get............







.....impressive isn't it?? :laugh: :laugh:
I paid a lot less to be frigging cold at the Cambrian thankyouverymuch :p

[dyfi1]

Anyone knows where the remote service A is?

Remote service for day 1 is at Royal Welsh Showground, Builth Wells.

[Tomi]

It must be frustrating for a driver to not be asked about your own performance but that of another driver, and a part-time driver at that. Obviously I'm just speculating but you can imagine the Italian media not caring about what Dani has to say normally.

Tells also how lost the guy is who ask such question.

[dyfi1]

Aberystyth itself is a seaside town so it should be colder on the mountains.
Here's hoping for a littel bit of winter!

I was up on Hafren ss very early on Sunday morning just to recce my spectating plan. At 08.00h the temperature was -6c and the stage surface was extremely icy..... winter`s here ;)

[BDunnell]

When asked by an italian television about Valentino Rossi (about his possible finish place), Sordo replied "I have more important things to think about" and walk away xD

What a miserable bugger. Surely he must realise that Rossi's participation is far more interesting than his own?

I'm all for these guest drives. There's a great tradition of them on the RAC - Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Derek Bell, Derek Warwick, Martin Brundle - and long may it continue.

[Tom206wrc]

Pitty for Aava and Rauam what ugly news happened to them :(

[MJW]

Picked this up on another forum but apparently Loeb has rolled on the recce, and has had to revert to the spare car.

[bennizw]

Rolled on the recce with a road car? :p :

[Buzz Lightyear]

it will only serve to focus the mind..

[Livewireshock]

it will only serve to focus the mind..

Or was it because he had his mind on the Focus's.

Or should that be Focii?

LOL

[patwalsh13]

Rolled on the recce with a road car? :p :

More like slid off the road, and rolled down a bank

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/8953/n7476947711695358508gu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6936/n74769477116953597535ph3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[MJW]

My info says that Myherin was particularly slippery with ice this morning.

[Allyc85]

Blimey should be interesting at full speed! Didnt they cancel stages in Japan because of snow?

[pettersolberg29]

Any chance of stage cancellations?

Planning to go to Rheola and Halfway - any history of cancellations? Don't want to turn up and its off...

[N.O.T]

conditions look perfect !!!! hope they don;t cancel anything

[Allyc85]

Me too, really looking forwards to Sweet Lamb. They should be made to cope with the conditions, its not always about going flat out.

[MJW]

more photos of the conditions from blogs.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sl_xgWOeR6M/STUjMF5lMPI/AAAAAAAAA9U/ru20r_XVvfI/s1600-h/image-upload-217-784085.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sl_xgWOeR6M/STUjMF5lMPI/AAAAAAAAA9U/ru20r_XVvfI/s1600-h/image-upload-217-784085.jpg

http://www.vgb.no/28412/perma/390006

[pettersolberg29]

I hope its not cancelled as well. I've never been to a snow rally (shame...) so would be nice to see the WRC in semi-snow in Wales.

[Simmi]

Not a very helpful reece if the snow goes away by Friday. I was wanting snow but if there is any chance of a cancellation then that would be awful. I dont think they would need it as I dont see it being very deep, but you never know at the moment when it comes to the WRC.

[ARF]

These conditions are clearly off the safety limits (with the tyres that they have to use).
Wouldn't be surprised if that stage was cancelled. Still, there's two more days until friday morning and a little rain with plus-degrees could help.

[MJW]

and this
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sl_xgWOeR6M/STUio9JTVsI/AAAAAAAAA9M/KRBQ3LcvMiU/s1600-h/image-upload-36-743309.jpg

[ProRally]

Picked this up on another forum but apparently Loeb has rolled on the recce, and has had to revert to the spare car.

Saw him in action last weekend in rally du var, he came 3rd overall with C2S1600 with his wife co-driving....

Maybe he had to get used to Daniel again.... :D

[Simmi]

These conditions are clearly off the safety limits (with the tyres that they have to use).
Wouldn't be surprised if that stage was cancelled. Still, there's two more days until friday morning and a little rain with plus-degrees could help.

Im not sure about Wales but for the rest of the UK the snow is going to get worse before it gets better. There is supposed to be a lot more on Wednesday night/Thursday! Perhaps the Welsh members know more?

Also due to the close proximity of the stages, I dont see one stage being much different in conditions to the others so if we were to talk about cancellations then it would be more then one stage IMO.

Hopefully it wont come to this. It kills me when you think back to the glory days and any talk like this would be unthinkable.

[pino]

It's going to be a tricky rally, can't wait ! :D

[Finni]

Just read Sordo's interview about how he hates the conditions in wales. I just get impression that Sordo is little bit nerd. Always sooo careful and mediocre fast. That guy is nowhere near to other works drivers except tarmac.

[traxx]

Can you give us a link to this interview ?

[Allyc85]

Just realised today that the tickets hadn't turned up yet, but a quick check by my mum in her emails say they've been dispatched today and will be here by special delivery tomorrow. The only thing is the email only mentions the Millenium stadium tickets and not the proper stage ones. Im guessing they will all come at once, but its gonna be squeeky arse time till Thursday to see if they do.

Great service for the money eh?

[Wim_Impreza]

Just read Sordo's interview about how he hates the conditions in wales. I just get impression that Sordo is little bit nerd. Always sooo careful and mediocre fast. That guy is nowhere near to other works drivers except tarmac.

2 ;)

[domaza]

2 ;)

Sad that Urmo is not there... these conditions would have suited him well ...

[urabus-denoS2000]

Is Seb recceing in an Mitsubishi?

[Brother John]

Is Seb recceing in an Mitsubishi?

Citroën has no 4wd car! :D

[Sulland]

What kind of tires does Pirellii have available for GB, that could help for snow and ice ?

Graveltyres might not be the rubber they need !

[pino]

Graveltyres might not be the rubber they need !

That depends on how much snow there is on stages and how long it will stay there...

[Iskald]

Very interesting conditions! Can`t wait to see gravel tyres without studs polishing the surface on these roads. Maybe it ends up like in 1971 or 1988 when some parts of the stages were blocked because cars couldn`t find grip to get up the hills...

Interesting also to note that in the old days with the RAC Rally running stages in the north of England it was quite often snow/ice and very slippery on some stages. But in those days teams and drivers brought their own tyres, and some had access to narrow unstudded snow-rally tyres which was a must to master the conditions. The gravel covers of today is nowhere near as suited to snow and ice and will possibly only polish the roads to make them even more slippery. Actually the recce itself will make the conditions worse unless the snow melts away, so watch out...

[urabus-denoS2000]

Citroën has no 4wd car! :D

Neither has Ford and they use Volvos (even though Volvo is under Ford)

Cant remeber any 4wd PSA car though

[ARF]

They'll have to use Pirelli's soft compound tyre in Wales.

[Sulland]

So which tyres have they brought :

Pls see page 6 & 12 for gravel and winter tyres:

http://www.pirellityre.com/en_IT/browser/attachments/pdf/brochure_rally_en.pdf

[Daniel]

Very interesting conditions! Can`t wait to see gravel tyres without studs polishing the surface on these roads. Maybe it ends up like in 1971 or 1988 when some parts of the stages were blocked because cars couldn`t find grip to get up the hills...

Interesting also to note that in the old days with the RAC Rally running stages in the north of England it was quite often snow/ice and very slippery on some stages. But in those days teams and drivers brought their own tyres, and some had access to narrow unstudded snow-rally tyres which was a must to master the conditions. The gravel covers of today is nowhere near as suited to snow and ice and will possibly only polish the roads to make them even more slippery. Actually the recce itself will make the conditions worse unless the snow melts away, so watch out...

Well it's clear you'll never work for the FIA, far too much sensibility in your words :p

[ARF]

So which tyres have they brought :

Pls see page 6 & 12 for gravel and winter tyres:

http://www.pirellityre.com/en_IT/browser/attachments/pdf/brochure_rally_en.pdf


None of those. As you may have heard, Pirelli is the single tyre in WRC starting from 2008 and for gravel there's only one pattern with two different compounds. For snow and ice - one pattern, one compound. For tar: one pattern, two compounds.
In Wales they're gonna use the same type of tyres that were used in Finland and Japan this year.
Though, the pattern looks the same as those in your link. Except, the WRC control-tyres are much heavier (extra strenghtened sidewalls) than normal customer tyres that are used in national events.

[bluuford]

During the recce they are going to compact all this small amount of snow... when it gets warmer, it turns to ice very quickly (top layer melts, lower layer is colder and when the water reaches there then its going to freeze again). The end result is like this: http://lh3.ggpht.com/murel.cereza/R4HJd_EqNTI/AAAAAAAACoI/fZ4SdBH4W6Y/s512/IMG_3226.JPG
but if you are from Estonia or from the other Nordic countries.. You are used to it.. At least every year it happens that road is completely covered by ice but your car has very hard summer tires :-) When it gets warmer then it dissappear from the roads which are on the open landscapes and it stays longer on the places without wind (forest).

[VodkaKick3]

UNCONFIRMED reports that Loeb has rolled again on the Recce this time in Resolven.

[Daniel]

UNCONFIRMED reports that Loeb has rolled again on the Recce this time in Resolven.
Oops

[Simmi]

I dont know if I am 100% correct in this but I think Wales is fairly much done with snow for the week. The projected large amount of snow coming to the UK looks to be going right up the middle of the UK and so hopefully not bothering Wales too much. Perhaps someone in Wales could comment on the conditions? Maybe the forum's resident meteorologist?

Hopefully it wont hinder anyone's journey down to Wales.

[bluuford]

Weather forecast:
Tonight nice snowstorm arrives just after midnight, but it turn to rainstorm very quickly (probably before 2AM). It should rain quite heavily at least until 10 AM tomorrow morning. Then it turns to rain showers. You might see some sun by the noon. The strongest winds appear in the morning. Gust might reach to 20 m/s. Temperature will climb over 0 degrees after midnight. Tomorrow it will be up to 5-6 degrees.

Friday: will follow

[bluuford]

I dont know if I am 100% correct in this but I think Wales is fairly much done with snow for the week. The projected large amount of snow coming to the UK looks to be going right up the middle of the UK and so hopefully not bothering Wales too much. Perhaps someone in Wales could comment on the conditions? Maybe the forum's resident meteorologist?

Hopefully it wont hinder anyone's journey down to Wales.

So far it looks that you are right.. We might see only a few minus degrees on Sunday morning.

[MJW]

UNCONFIRMED reports that Loeb has rolled again on the Recce this time in Resolven.
Loeb did not roll in Resolven this morning, he did however go off, he spun off backwards but got going again. I was told that of the first 47 cars that started run 1 of the stage for recce only 5 cars came out of the stage without some form of minor off. It was sheet ice for the entire length of the stage.

[Simmi]

So far it looks that you are right.. We might see only a few minus degrees on Sunday morning.

At first I wanted snow but now I really just want it to go away when I wake up and remember this is WRC 2008. Hopefully Thursday will sort out the stages into a more drivable condition with rain and higher temps.

Hopefully the organisers wont be too hasty after seeing Loeb possibly go off twice on the reece. Changing forecasts should render the reeces pretty much useless. Especially when you take into account that most of the stages this year are either new or run in reverse to last year.

Shakedown will be very interesting tomorrow!

[Simmi]

Loeb did not roll in Resolven this morning, he did however go off, he spun off backwards but got going again. I was told that of the first 47 cars that started run 1 of the stage for recce only 5 cars came out of the stage without some form of minor off. It was sheet ice for the entire length of the stage.

I wonder if Rossi was one of those 5?

[tmx]

Haha, Loeb goes off a second time.

This will be an interesting rally, never seen a snow Wales rally before.

[Buzz Lightyear]

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3328

Its looks like you simply need to turn up to a rally to be included in the Stobart team.

[urabus-denoS2000]

7 cars?!?

[MikeD]

7 cars?!?

7 cars will run under the entry name for "Stobart VK M-Sport RT" but 5 of them will be run by M-Sport (Duval, Wilson, Clark, Rossi and H.Solberg) whereas Weston's car will be run by Ramsport and Perez' car will be run by BTR Preparations.

There was also a lot of entries last year where the entry name was "Stobart etc." but where it was other teams running the cars (not M-Sport)

[Daniel]

I dont know if I am 100% correct in this but I think Wales is fairly much done with snow for the week. The projected large amount of snow coming to the UK looks to be going right up the middle of the UK and so hopefully not bothering Wales too much. Perhaps someone in Wales could comment on the conditions? Maybe the forum's resident meteorologist?

Hopefully it wont hinder anyone's journey down to Wales.

Don't be writing off the dodgy weather just yet :)

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/wl/wl_forecast_warnings.html?day=2

The weather isn't far off hitting either......

http://source-uk.buienradar.mobi.3i.eu/m-img/radar.gif;jsessionid=EAB77FDF9891B6665E742342D7EAA 3F6?t=1224443700000&country=uk

[Simmi]

The problem is going to be how do organisers decide in advance about whether a stage will be passable. I believe the checks will be made tomorrow morning, so there will be plenty of fresh snow that is due to then thaw out.

Hopefully the CoC can take into account the forecasts for Thursday PM rather then taking the stage at face value.

[bluuford]

Forecast for Friday:
The snow that might arrive tonight will disappear tomorrow. It will be +5, heavy rain, strong wind and later rain showers. During the Friday night, the temperature might fall as low as -1 degrees in some places. During the Friday there will be many rain showers, temperature between +3..+6 and almost no sun. The snow possibility is further to the north, so I expect it to be nice muddy rally with a few very icy patches in the middle of the forest.

[MJW]

Its somewhat ironic that in the eve of the rally we are worried about the depth of the ice penetration in the roads and the possibility of snow covering, the organisers of the Swedish Rally would have loved to have been in this sitaution back in February.

[bf1_IRL]

Some piccys :)
http://s202.photobucket.com/albums/aa303/bf1_photos/Wales%20Rally%20GB%202008/

[Leon]

shakedown news? photos?

[Simmi]

A lot of uncertainty this morning for me. Shakedown is running fine but that is situated further south then the stages of Day 1. Mark James on rally radio said he had spoke to Phil Mills this morning and his wife had told him there was heavy snow in Newtown. Not good.

Matt Wilson seemed to think a decision was going to be made this afternoon. I assume that will come in the press conference whenever that is?

[Koppomsbo]

shakedown news? photos?

According to Patrik Sandells blog the road i almost gone at the SD

[pino]

Shakedown times ? :D

[Allyc85]

Shakedown doesn't finish for another couple of hours according to the website :)

[pino]

Shakedown doesn't finish for another couple of hours according to the website :)

The big ones have finished their shakedown 2 hours ago ;)

[Halvis]

Henning went off on SD, claims that the suspension broke - sending the car out of the road and into a tree.

http://www.vgb.no/6339/

Picture i his blogg

[Allyc85]

The big ones have finished their shakedown 2 hours ago ;)

Then il be quiet lol!

[Luke555]

Another PIC of Henning crash: http://www.rallyonline.pl/index.php?1&modex=pnews&&s=19799

[pino]

Let's hope isn't the start of many off.... :s

[J4MIE]

There is sure to be lots of excitement and drama on this rally as it is the first time since 2001 that I have not been there! :s

Can't see any pics or videos (at work), hopefully Henning's car isn't too bad! But the shakedown stage is terrible for rutting up, I would expect there to be terrible conditions by now....

[Tom206wrc]

News ??? :confused:

[Sturla]

Brynildsen reported that Petter was the fastest man for a long time, got beaten by??

[Allyc85]

Right im off to Wales now, have a great rally everyone :D

[Tom206wrc]

Brynildsen reported that Petter was the fastest man for a long time, got beaten by??



LOEB ???? :p :

[WRC1]

Brynildsen reported that Petter was the fastest man for a long time, got beaten by??


dottore ROSSI!!!

[Tom206wrc]

Shakedown times !!!! Hirvonen was fastest ;)

http://www.autoklub.pl/22512,news.html

[nightracer]

From Crash.net

Leading shakedown times*:

1. Mikko Hirvonen BP Ford Abu Dhabi Focus RS WRC 08 2mins 25.6secs M
2. Petter Solberg Subaru WRT Impreza WRC 2008 2mins 26.5secs M
3. Sebastien Loeb Citroen Total WRT C4 WRC 2mins 27.0secs M
4. Daniel Sordo Citroen Total WRT C4 WRC 2mins 27.2secs M
5. Jari-Matti Latvala BP Ford Abu Dhabi Focus RS WRC 08 2mins 28.1secs M
6. Francois Duval Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 07 2mins 29.0secs MT
7. Chris Atkinson Subaru WRT Impreza WRC 2008 2mins 29.2secs M
8. Matthew Wilson Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 07 2mins 30.2secs MT
9. Per-Gunnar Andersson Suzuki WRT SX4 WRC 2mins 30.4secs M
10. Sebastien Ogier PH Sport-Citroen C4 WRC 2mins 30.6secs A8
11. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki WRT SX4 WRC 2mins 31.7secs M
12. Mads Ostberg Adapta WRT Subaru WRC 2mins 32.2secs A8
13. Henning Solberg Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 07 2mins 33.8secs A8
14. Barry Clark Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 07 2mins 34.6secs A8
15. Khalid Al Qassimi BP Ford Abu Dhabi Focus RS WRC 08 2mins 36.8secs A8
16. Conrad Rautenbach PH Sport-Citroen C4 WRC 2mins 37.4secs A8
17. Valentino Rossi Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 07 2mins 41.7secs A8
18. Gareth Jones Subaru Impreza WRC 2mins 45.2secs A8
19. Dave Weston Stobart VK Ford Focus WRC 05 2mins 46.0secs A8
20. Steve Perez Stobart VK Ford Focus 2mins 47.5secs A8
21. Eamonn Boland Subaru Impreza WRC 2mins 53.9secs A8

[Tom206wrc]

I will focus on young Sébastien Ogier during the rally ;)

[mdesign]

I will focus on young Sébastien Ogier during the rally ;)
Sordo should do the same lol

[J4MIE]

Incredible difference in times for such a short shakedown stage :s Guess the state of the road will have a lot to do with that (hopefully!!).

[Buzz Lightyear]

I will focus on young Sébastien Ogier during the rally ;)

Take a good look at it, because he will not be as high as 10th on the rally.

[Tom206wrc]

No shakedown times for PWRC ???? :confused:


What time realized the S2000s(Sandell and Tarabus) ???

[Corny]

what a joke, they are thinking about cancelling some stage parts due to the weather.. C'mon man, have we forgotten what rally is?

[pino]

what a joke, they are thinking about cancelling some stage parts due to the weather.. C'mon man, have we forgotten what rally is?

Where did you read that ?

[dimviii]

any pwrc times? :rolleyes:

[Koppomsbo]

and 17th by Rossi, any comments from him after Sd?

[Corny]

Where did you read that ?

http://www.pitstop.tv

[pino]

and 17th by Rossi, any comments from him after Sd?

This (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3347&desc=Rossi%20collects%20his%20lucky%20number) is the only comment I've found ;)

[Roy]

Pics of Wales Rally GB:

http://www.worldrallypics.com/walesrallygb/


More Rossi interview stuff:
http://www.walesrallygb.com/52_744.php

[noel157]

This (http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3347&desc=Rossi%20collects%20his%20lucky%20number) is the only comment I've found ;)

That was very kind of Jari Ketomaa....................

[pino]

That was very kind of Jari Ketomaa....................

Finns are always very kind towards italians :rolleyes: :p :

[Tomi]

Finns are always very kind towards italians :rolleyes: :p :

To children and Italians :)

[DonJippo]

To children and Italians :)

Is there a difference :confused: :p :

[Tomi]

Is there a difference :confused: :p :

very small, the other cry if they cant eat from the batman plate, the others if they dont get the special number. :)

[pettersolberg29]

I've heard rumours of possible stage cancellations. Is this likely or true?

And if so, is it only the Mid-Wales stages that are in danger, because I'm only going Sat and Sunday - hopefully no cancellations there!

[AndyRAC]

No cancellations - but all have been shortened - Hafren is now only about 3km. Bit drastic - but at least it's running. Just shows the current tyre regs are wrong.

[pettersolberg29]

^ Where'd you see that?

And what about Saturday and Sunday?

[AndyRAC]

^ Where'd you see that?

And what about Saturday and Sunday?

Just been on Wales Rally Radio on the internet. Hafren is now 3.67km - just over 2miles. I could be uncharitable and say - has the WRC really come to this? But on the wrong tyres I suppose there is the safety issue - this isn't the RAC of 1988, 1993, 1996.

[Buzz Lightyear]

a load of bollocks.

[patwalsh13]

http://www.walesrallygb.com/52_746.php

[alexlake]

a load of bollocks.

too true, its rallying for gods sake! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[pettersolberg29]

The only reason any stage should be cancelled/shortened is due to a bad accident or landslides meaning it is literally unpassable.

Rally drivers should be able to cope with mud and ice - just simply relax the tyre rule for this one time and let them have any tyre/grooves they want.

The one saving grace for me is that I'm not going to Fridays stages, only Sat and Sunday. I feel sorry for you guys going up to mid-Wales. I assume only the Friday ones are affected as the weather is worse up there - maybe a native (!) could let us know the situation in Swansea/Brecon stages

[patwalsh13]

The only reason any stage should be cancelled/shortened is due to a bad accident or landslides meaning it is literally unpassable.

Rally drivers should be able to cope with mud and ice - just simply relax the tyre rule for this one time and let them have any tyre/grooves they want.

The one saving grace for me is that I'm not going to Fridays stages, only Sat and Sunday. I feel sorry for you guys going up to mid-Wales. I assume only the Friday ones are affected as the weather is worse up there - maybe a native (!) could let us know the situation in Swansea/Brecon stages

Organisers have probably only released details concerning Friday's stages as they are the closest time-wise. Any decisions regarding Saturday & Sunday's stages would be issued the evening before, based on current weather/road conditions. Judging by the recce reports, more people wnet off on the ice on the Southern stages that those held tomorrow.

[ARF]

Grow up! It's for the safety of drivers and also spectators (doesn't concern majority of writers here, as they're probably too afraid to leave the house).

[jparker]

what a joke, they are thinking about cancelling some stage parts due to the weather.. C'mon man, have we forgotten what rally is?
Have you forgotten about the cheep rubber that has no grip so ever?

[Wim_Impreza]

Thanks to Citroën, there will be stages who will be much shortened. :(
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/12/04/wales-diskussion-um-sicherheit/index.html

What the hell they are doing?

[Corny]

No, I haven't.. Cancelling for safety reasons? These are the best drivers in the world, shouldn't they know how to handle with it?

Ask a non-rally fan what he thinks when the word rally comes to his mind, and he'll tell you that these are the conditions that make the rallies so much more interesting than circuit racing..

[pettersolberg29]

Grow up! It's for the safety of drivers and also spectators (doesn't concern majority of writers here, as they're probably too afraid to leave the house).

What on earth are you talking about? Almost everyone here goes to rallies, whether in Finland, Sweden, GB etc. Do you?

As for saying its for the safety of drivers and spectators;
1) Spectators aren't even allowed anywhere near the stage anyway so their safety isn't at risk if they do what the marshals say.
2) If its for the safety of the drivers, then ask the drivers if they want to do it. I'm sure 99% would say its Ok.
3) Not your fault - but why don't the FIA or whoever it is just let the teams have any tyre they want for the conditions?

And if you were being saracastic (hope you were) then sorry!

[jparker]

No, I haven't.. Cancelling for safety reasons? These are the best drivers in the world, shouldn't they know how to handle with it?

Ask a non-rally fan what he thinks when the word rally comes to his mind, and he'll tell you that these are the conditions that make the rallies so much more interesting than circuit racing..

Yes, I got the point, but even that has its limits. I just don't want to see more people in hospital because of stupid idea called "controll tyre".

[ste898]

How can this farce of an event keep its place in the WRC!!!

I am so glad I did'nt waste my money and go....my god what a joke!!!

[ste898]

Thanks to Citroën, there will be stages who will be much shortened. :(
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/12/04/wales-diskussion-um-sicherheit/index.html

What the hell they are doing?


Typical big POOF'S!!!!!

Suppose they will have to try everything to wind the Manufacturers title!!!!

[Tomi]

loeb just did throw in the towel in tv, he will not drive for the win.

[Corny]

Yes, I got the point, but even that has its limits. I just don't want to see more people in hospital because of stupid idea called "controll tyre".

Don't the big crashes happen on high speed? The cars will not reach that high-speeds when there's so much ice/snow on the road.. (bit like Monte)

Really: I doubt if it's necessary to further follow this sport.. I started to follow WRC because the cars were going to spectaculair, and the roads and conditions were so unpredictable and different... The first one of my reasons has gone, and they are destroying the second one too!

SO glad I'm not a spectator there :D

And don't blame Citroen please, any team would've done the same, in any sport

[AndyRAC]

Tyre regs need changing!!! And quickly......please!!!
For an event held in the winter you should be able to have a selection that includes winter tyres(but not studded for GB). What next, no Sweden because of too much snow??

[Daniel]

Thanks to Citroën, there will be stages who will be much shortened. :(
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/12/04/wales-diskussion-um-sicherheit/index.html

What the hell they are doing?

They're helping to make people realise that this sick dog needs putting down.

[Daniel]

The only reason any stage should be cancelled/shortened is due to a bad accident or landslides meaning it is literally unpassable.

Rally drivers should be able to cope with mud and ice - just simply relax the tyre rule for this one time and let them have any tyre/grooves they want.

The one saving grace for me is that I'm not going to Fridays stages, only Sat and Sunday. I feel sorry for you guys going up to mid-Wales. I assume only the Friday ones are affected as the weather is worse up there - maybe a native (!) could let us know the situation in Swansea/Brecon stages

You obviously don't drive do you :rolleyes: I drove into work on Tuesday to find the carpark covered in black ice. Luckily someone waved me down and stopped me before I got onto it and I went through at less than walking pace and still locked up my wheels going into my parking space. Regardless of whether you have gravel tyres, 4wd and 3 active diffs you can not go against the laws of physics and get grip on icy and snowy roads without studs. Studs are banned in the UK and that is that.

It's all fine and dandy thinking rally drivers should be well 'ard and just deal with it but this is serious and these are people's lives at risk.

The cars at the very least need proper winter tyres. The control tyre rules this year are moronic at best and need changing ASAP. I know a certain French company who could supply some appropriate tyres but aren't allowed because of a silly vendetta they have with the FIA.

I can't believe people are thinking of themselves as spectators over the competitors out there risking their butts.

[Lousada]

When the calendar was set last year, even people on the forum here said this would happen. But of course, it's all the fault of Loeb and the French again.

[Wim_Impreza]

Typical big POOF'S!!!!!

Suppose they will have to try everything to wind the Manufacturers title!!!!

Yes, because Sordo can't drive fast and stay on the road in snow, ice or fog. Loeb is not that good than the Finnish drivers too in this conditions.

[pettersolberg29]

Daniel, I do drive but that isn't important.

I understand your view about black ice, and yes it is dangerous if it is icy, however the chances are by tomorrow, the stage will not be icy. You do put some good points in though if the stage is THAT icy.

And I completely agree that the tyre rules need changing - how about letting the manufacturer owners discuss what EVERY car will use the night before. Then evryone will have the same tyres, and the right tyres.

[BDunnell]

What a sad state of affairs. I was only earlier thinking about how excited I used to be about the RAC, not least because the conditions could be so unpredictable and make the whole thing what it should be — a challenge to which the teams and drivers have to adapt. Now, and not just because of the shortened stages, I couldn't care less.

[Daniel]

What a sad state of affairs. I was only earlier thinking about how excited I used to be about the RAC, not least because the conditions could be so unpredictable and make the whole thing what it should be — a challenge to which the teams and drivers have to adapt. Now, and not just because of the shortened stages, I couldn't care less.

Adapt eh? Well the FIA banned the f00k out of that this year didn't they!

[Daniel]

And I completely agree that the tyre rules need changing - how about letting the manufacturer owners discuss what EVERY car will use the night before. Then
http://www.noticias.info/Asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=371885
http://www.mark-blundell.com/news/newsdetail.asp?evryone will have the same tyres, and the right tyres.

This has been discussed ad nauseum at all levels. But Malcolm imafriggingidiot Wilson won't allow cuts and that is the only thing that can be done. If anyone is hurt I hope Malcolm is held personally responsible.
championship_id=4&news_id=172189 (http://www.mark-blundell.com/news/newsdetail.asp?championship_id=4&news_id=172189)

[BDunnell]

Adapt eh? Well the FIA banned the f00k out of that this year didn't they!

Exactly. I'm not normally one who blames the FIA for absolutely everything, but I am willing to make some exceptions...

[MJW]

You obviously don't drive do you :rolleyes: I drove into work on Tuesday to find the carpark covered in black ice. Luckily someone waved me down and stopped me before I got onto it and I went through at less than walking pace and still locked up my wheels going into my parking space. Regardless of whether you have gravel tyres, 4wd and 3 active diffs you can not go against the laws of physics and get grip on icy and snowy roads without studs. Studs are banned in the UK and that is that.

It's all fine and dandy thinking rally drivers should be well 'ard and just deal with it but this is serious and these are people's lives at risk.

The cars at the very least need proper winter tyres. The control tyre rules this year are moronic at best and need changing ASAP. I know a certain French company who could supply some appropriate tyres but aren't allowed because of a silly vendetta they have with the FIA.

I can't believe people are thinking of themselves as spectators over the competitors out there risking their butts.
Well said Daniel,
Loeb rolls of the recce, allegedly plenty of other 'offs' as well, I personally saw some recce cars that will require some explaining when handed back to the hire company. Also of the first 47 cars recceing Resolfen yesterday according to the scanner radio traffic only 5 of those hadn't been off, 1 of them was Loeb. The problem as I understand it was the ground was frozen, then came the pre-recce snow, that got 'driven in and polished' it remained below freezing for days and last night there was another significant dump of snow. Sure its now plus values and rain, but under the trees and on high ground its still like driving an ice rink. Those naieve folk that think gravel tyres give grip on snow haven't got a clue.

[ARF]

Everybody here seems to want cheaper rally cars in WRC. But that's what the control tyre is all about - cutting costs. The amount of time and money teams spent testing the tyres in previous years was huge.
Everybody would like to drive a car with tyres suitable for given conditions. As long as there is control tyre in WRC, there will be stages shortened/cancelled due to safety reasons.
Believe me, those Friday stages are in bad condition, as are Resolfen and Halfway.

[Daniel]

Daniel, I do drive but that isn't important.

I understand your view about black ice, and yes it is dangerous if it is icy, however the chances are by tomorrow, the stage will not be icy. You do put some good points in though if the stage is THAT icy.

And I completely agree that the tyre rules need changing - how about letting the manufacturer owners discuss what EVERY car will use the night before. Then evryone will have the same tyres, and the right tyres.


http://www.noticias.info/Asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=371885
http://www.mark-blundell.com/news/newsdetail.asp?championship_id=4&news_id=172189http://www.mark-blundell.com/news/newsdetail.asp?championship_id=4&news_id=172189

This has been discussed ad nauseum at all levels. But Malcolm imafriggingidiot Wilson won't allow cuts and that is the only thing that can be done. If anyone is hurt I hope Malcolm is held personally responsible.

What I've said doesn't just hold water for ice, it holds water when there's mud. Have you ever driven on a road tyre on a gravel road when it's really wet? I had 4 good tyres on my car last year at Rally GB and driving on the roads at low speed was like driving on ice, the tread simply gets clogged up with mud and the tyre loses grip. You only need to see Argentina earlier this year to see 4wd doesn't help that much when this is happening.

[pettersolberg29]

Thanks Daniel - never knew Malcolm Wilson was THAT idiotic!

[Daniel]

Yes, because Sordo can't drive fast and stay on the road in snow, ice or fog. Loeb is not that good than the Finnish drivers too in this conditions.
Why did Loeb do so well in Argentina and Japan then? :confused:

[Salist]

Fotos and videos from the shakedown?

[BDunnell]

Everybody here seems to want cheaper rally cars in WRC. But that's what the control tyre is all about - cutting costs. The amount of time and money teams spent testing the tyres in previous years was huge.
Everybody would like to drive a car with tyres suitable for given conditions. As long as there is control tyre in WRC, there will be stages shortened/cancelled due to safety reasons.
Believe me, those Friday stages are in bad condition, as are Resolfen and Halfway.

What is needed is cost-cutting across the board combined with sensible tyre regulations to avoid this sort of thing. It's not beyond the wit of man to end up with a situation that works, is it?

[Iskald]

Tyre regs need changing!!! And quickly......please!!!
For an event held in the winter you should be able to have a selection that includes winter tyres(but not studded for GB). What next, no Sweden because of too much snow??

Of course, when you are running a rally in GB in december, it shouldn`t come as a surprise that the rally could be affected by snow and ice. Even in Wales. One of the tyre options should have been a narrow and unstudded, snow-rally tyre, which should be usable even in adverse conditions.

They experienced conditions like this many times in the old RAC Rally, when stages was run in Scotland and the north of England. It was considered part of the adventure and challenge just to get through some stages. I spoke to John Haugland the other day, and he told some stories about extremely difficult conditions and sometimes nearly unpassable stages. But, said Haugland, the proper, narrow snow-rally tyres made it possible to drive, even without studs. It was of course slippery, but not impossible.

Tomorrow they are running a "full day" of WRC-rallying with less than 60 kms. of stages in total. Its the competitive distance of what we call a "mini rally" in Norway, and probably anywhere else. In Wales it will be the full first day of a world championship rally. What a challenge, what an effort, what an adventure!!! Pardon my french, but it`s a f.....g joke!

[ARF]

What is needed is cost-cutting across the board combined with sensible tyre regulations to avoid this sort of thing. It's not beyond the wit of man to end up with a situation that works, is it?

Same tyre for everyone is the easiest and most reasonable solution. And as Pirelli (or whatever tyre-maker) is after some sort of profit, then they could'nt possibly bring all the worlds rally tyres to each event. Just so that the manufacturers or drivers could make a choice after the recce. Then we would go back ten years.

Even during the last few years, when we had two tyre-makers the amount of tyre compounds was cut down, as well as the choice of patterns. Testing them was still bloody expensive.

[Daniel]

Of course, when you are running a rally in GB in december, it shouldn`t come as a surprise that the rally could be affected by snow and ice. Even in Wales. One of the tyre options should have been a narrow and unstudded, snow-rally tyre, which should be usable even in adverse conditions.

They experienced conditions like this many times in the old RAC Rally, when stages was run in Scotland and the north of England. It was considered part of the adventure and challenge just to get through some stages. I spoke to John Haugland the other day, and he told some stories about extremely difficult conditions and sometimes nearly unpassable stages. But, said Haugland, the proper, narrow snow-rally tyres made it possible to drive, even without studs. It was of course slippery, but not impossible.

Tomorrow they are running a "full day" of WRC-rallying with less than 60 kms. of stages in total. Its the competitive distance of what we call a "mini rally" in Norway, and probably anywhere else. In Wales it will be the full first day of a world championship rally. What a challenge, what an effort, what an adventure!!! Pardon my french, but it`s a f.....g joke!
Hey hey hey! We'll have none of that sensible talk here thankyouverymuch :angryfire

[Daniel]

Same tyre for everyone is the easiest and most reasonable solution. And as Pirelli (or whatever tyre-maker) is after some sort of profit, then they could'nt possibly bring all the worlds rally tyres to each event. Just so that the manufacturers or drivers could make a choice after the recce. Then we would go back ten years.

That's a dumb idea. SUITABLE tyres for everyone is what we want.

[AndyRAC]

I just hope this doesn't disuade them from continuing to move the event further away from South Wales - the event/sport really needs a expanded route, as it's fallen so far off the British sporting radar it's not funny.
Anyway, I'm about to sign off, leaving for Hafren - yes, I'm still going. Must be mad, but it was the first stage I ever went to, so it is a favourite.

[ARF]

That's a dumb idea. SUITABLE tyres for everyone is what we want.

Well, at the moment it's not about what YOU want :)
YOU want cars to go back 20 years - to have no suspension and to be driven sideways. (Not to mention the rollcages or other safety equipment used back then.) At least that's the main point I get reading this forum.

Of course it would be nice, if they could each choose appropriate tyres for tomorrow (or whatever rally and stage), but these days are over. And that's something we have to ADAPT with. If WE still care about rallying.

[Roy]

Next proposal:

Tyre maker comes with different some tyres to rally:

Gravel
If there is wet gravel = cut gravel tyres
If there is snow on original gravel stages = used snow tyres
If gravel stages are dry = normal gravel stages

Tarmac:
If there is wet tarmac = cut tarmac tyres
If there is snow on original tarmac stages = used snow tyres
If tarmac stages are dry = normal tarmac stages

Snow
If there is snow on original tarmac stages = used snow tyres
Less or no snow? = cut gravel tyres

Maybe the have to prepared special snow tyres for example: Japan and GB, but that is far better than option for friday 5th December.

I say: cut tyres, no stages!

[BDunnell]

Great post, Iskald.


Of course, when you are running a rally in GB in december, it shouldn`t come as a surprise that the rally could be affected by snow and ice. Even in Wales. One of the tyre options should have been a narrow and unstudded, snow-rally tyre, which should be usable even in adverse conditions.

They experienced conditions like this many times in the old RAC Rally, when stages was run in Scotland and the north of England. It was considered part of the adventure and challenge just to get through some stages. I spoke to John Haugland the other day, and he told some stories about extremely difficult conditions and sometimes nearly unpassable stages. But, said Haugland, the proper, narrow snow-rally tyres made it possible to drive, even without studs. It was of course slippery, but not impossible.

The only time I can think of when the RAC was badly affected by the winter weather was 1971, when snow made sections genuinely impassable and lots of drivers got stuck. In more recent times, the 1988, 1993 and (non-championship) 1996 events were all hit by significant snowfalls, but went ahead without difficulty.

A good example of how mixed conditions on the RAC could be is the 1985 event. The first day of spectator stages was largely wet; then some of the Welsh forest stages the next day were sometimes so dry they were a bit dusty, but it was icy and snowy in the Border Country and Scotland. I seem to remember that the Ogre Hill stage was cancelled because of the worst of the winter weather, but that was it.

(By the way, your mention of John Haugland reminds me of the time he benefited from snow in Britain — on the 1986 National Breakdown Rally, first round of the British Open series, when he was fastest of all on one of the early stages in the Skoda 130LR!)



Tomorrow they are running a "full day" of WRC-rallying with less than 60 kms. of stages in total. Its the competitive distance of what we call a "mini rally" in Norway, and probably anywhere else. In Wales it will be the full first day of a world championship rally. What a challenge, what an effort, what an adventure!!! Pardon my french, but it`s a f.....g joke!

I agree 100 per cent.

[Iskald]

Hey hey hey! We'll have none of that sensible talk here thankyouverymuch :angryfire

Sorry! I`ll add something less sensible then...The guys are wimps!

Living in Norway, and driving unstudded with a minibus all the time, gives me a bit of experience. On the other hand of course it has nothing to do with rallying. But then again I remember back to october 2002 competing with my old driver Tord in Saarema Rally in Estonia. It was our first rally in a WRC-car, by the way. It snowed sleet the night before the start of the rally, which during the night froze to a 5 cm. combination of snow/ice on the stages. It was not sheet ice, but slippery as hell as we only had gravel tyres (we had no clue it could snow in Estonia in mid-october...). It eventually got warmer during the day and conditions became quite good, but the first three stages was a very interesting and scary balancing act just to stay on the road. But we made it through, as did actually most of the other teams competing. We just had to drive more slowly, and not take any chances. Believe me, the conditions on these three stages was extreme. But we couldn`t sit down and cry, could we, if we wanted to take part in the rally?

[Tom206wrc]

Thanks Daniel - never knew Malcolm Wilson was THAT idiotic!



And Ste898 will never admit that, all if it's Citroën but NEVER if it's godfather FORD :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Well, at the moment it's not about what YOU want :)
YOU want cars to go back 20 years - to have no suspension and to be driven sideways. (Not to mention the rollcages or other safety equipment used back then.) At least that's the main point I get reading this forum.

Of course it would be nice, if they could each choose appropriate tyres for tomorrow (or whatever rally and stage), but these days are over. And that's something we have to ADAPT with. If WE still care about rallying.

I care about rallying. I really do and this is NOT the way forward. All this does is send drivers out with equipment which is nowhere near as safe as it should be. Safety should ALWAYS be paramount which is why roll cage design should continue going forward and other safety factors should be looked into and be continuously developed.

Tyres are safety equipment. You wouldn't drive around in Finland or Sweden in the winter without winter tyres on would you? If you wouldn't then why should the drivers be forced to do so? It's silly to simply say "that's how it is and say that they should deal with it". If there is a problem in your country or local area which is easily solved people don't go "well that's how it is so it should stay like that" now do they?

[Nenukknak]

Of course, when you are running a rally in GB in december, it shouldn`t come as a surprise that the rally could be affected by snow and ice. Even in Wales. One of the tyre options should have been a narrow and unstudded, snow-rally tyre, which should be usable even in adverse conditions.

They experienced conditions like this many times in the old RAC Rally, when stages was run in Scotland and the north of England. It was considered part of the adventure and challenge just to get through some stages. I spoke to John Haugland the other day, and he told some stories about extremely difficult conditions and sometimes nearly unpassable stages. But, said Haugland, the proper, narrow snow-rally tyres made it possible to drive, even without studs. It was of course slippery, but not impossible.

Tomorrow they are running a "full day" of WRC-rallying with less than 60 kms. of stages in total. Its the competitive distance of what we call a "mini rally" in Norway, and probably anywhere else. In Wales it will be the full first day of a world championship rally. What a challenge, what an effort, what an adventure!!! Pardon my french, but it`s a f.....g joke!

True words, I agree one hundred percent.

Is this WRC? Is this what it has come down to? Oooh wintery conditions, now we can't drive, no conditions are too bad.

This is the biggest joke since Superrally. Will nothing be us rallyfans spared.

Why not run 20 stages in the stadium, no need to worry about winterconditions.

I really cannot express in words, how disgusted I am with this decision. The WRC was dying, and it just got it neckshot.

[jparker]

Well, at the moment it's not about what YOU want :)
YOU want cars to go back 20 years - to have no suspension and to be driven sideways. (Not to mention the rollcages or other safety equipment used back then.) At least that's the main point I get reading this forum.
I don't think you have read all post on that topic here. I don't remember anyone talking about rollcages and safety equipment to save money.


Of course it would be nice, if they could each choose appropriate tyres for tomorrow (or whatever rally and stage), but these days are over. And that's something we have to ADAPT with. If WE still care about rallying.

Tyre is single and immidate point of failure that ruins entire team's efford. Mikko could of been still in contention for the title if it were't the problems with punctures this year. I DO care about rallying, but I just don't get it. What about gearboxes and hydrolycs that cost tens of thousands?

[bluuford]

I care about rallying. I really do and this is NOT the way forward. All this does is send drivers out with equipment which is nowhere near as safe as it should be. Safety should ALWAYS be paramount which is why roll cage design should continue going forward and other safety factors should be looked into and be continuously developed.

Tyres are safety equipment. You wouldn't drive around in Finland or Sweden in the winter without winter tyres on would you? If you wouldn't then why should the drivers be forced to do so? It's silly to simply say "that's how it is and say that they should deal with it". If there is a problem in your country or local area which is easily solved people don't go "well that's how it is so it should stay like that" now do they?

come on! Of course we drive with winter tires without studs! almost one third of the cars are using winter tires without studs in Estonia. There are even plans to ban studded tires in Estonia.
I don't see a real problem there. Softer tires have often much better grip in winter that hard compound winter tires. I have driven with 4WD car with soft gravel tires on in winter. actually it was much better grip than with proper winter tires without studs. The problem is that most of the WRC field is not used to that kind of conditions and to allow them to drive with such a powerful machinery on snow is a little bit beyond of their skills.

Very wise talk by Iskand. With such a slippery conditions there are less crashes, because everybody are more cautious and if something happens then the speed is much slower and the crash is usually much smaller as well.

[Daniel]

come on! Of course we drive with winter tires without studs! almost one third of the cars are using winter tires without studs in Estonia. There are even plans to ban studded tires in Estonia.
I don't see a real problem there. Softer tires have often much better grip in winter that hard compound winter tires. I have driven with 4WD car with soft gravel tires on in winter. actually it was much better grip than with proper winter tires without studs. The problem is that most of the WRC field is not used to that kind of conditions and to allow them to drive with such a powerful machinery on snow is a little bit beyond of their skills.

Very wise talk by Iskand. With such a slippery conditions there are less crashes, because everybody are more cautious and if something happens then the speed is much slower and the crash is usually much smaller as well.
I never talked about studs. you do know you can get winter tyres without studs.....

[jparker]

Very wise talk by Iskand. With such a slippery conditions there are less crashes, because everybody are more cautious and if something happens then the speed is much slower and the crash is usually much smaller as well.
You need some minimum grip. We are not talking about short sections that drivers expect, we are talking about entire stages. Speed will arise on straights (especialy when manu title is at stake), and small misjudgment may place the car out of controll.

[Daniel]

Sorry! I`ll add something less sensible then...The guys are wimps!

Living in Norway, and driving unstudded with a minibus all the time, gives me a bit of experience. On the other hand of course it has nothing to do with rallying. But then again I remember back to october 2002 competing with my old driver Tord in Saarema Rally in Estonia. It was our first rally in a WRC-car, by the way. It snowed sleet the night before the start of the rally, which during the night froze to a 5 cm. combination of snow/ice on the stages. It was not sheet ice, but slippery as hell as we only had gravel tyres (we had no clue it could snow in Estonia in mid-october...). It eventually got warmer during the day and conditions became quite good, but the first three stages was a very interesting and scary balancing act just to stay on the road. But we made it through, as did actually most of the other teams competing. We just had to drive more slowly, and not take any chances. Believe me, the conditions on these three stages was extreme. But we couldn`t sit down and cry, could we, if we wanted to take part in the rally?

Thing is if you'd wanted to use snow tyres you could have I'm assuming? The average person doing rally GB will probably have bought their tyres before the rally and may not be able to afford to buy a set of snow tyres but this shouldn't be forced on the top guys. Citroen, Suzuki, Subaru and Ford ALL have the budget to run snow tyres so let them do it. Sure back in ye olde days some drivers just got on with it because they didn't have the equipment or the money but others who did have both got to choose whatever tyres they wanted to.

I'd consider going down if the cars could actually use snow tyres. It would be pretty special to see WRCars on nice narrow tyres on snow rims on Rally GB but it's just not allowed.

I'm all for moving back to simpler technology but tyres are important and too important to be skimping on.

[ARF]

I care about rallying. I really do and this is NOT the way forward. All this does is send drivers out with equipment which is nowhere near as safe as it should be. Safety should ALWAYS be paramount which is why roll cage design should continue going forward and other safety factors should be looked into and be continuously developed.

Tyres are safety equipment. You wouldn't drive around in Finland or Sweden in the winter without winter tyres on would you? If you wouldn't then why should the drivers be forced to do so? It's silly to simply say "that's how it is and say that they should deal with it". If there is a problem in your country or local area which is easily solved people don't go "well that's how it is so it should stay like that" now do they?

That's what I think also. And today there were concerns about safety and that's why the stages were shortened ie. made safer.

I just don't get it how some people don't get it :P

[ARF]

But then again I remember back to october 2002 competing with my old driver Tord in Saarema Rally in Estonia. It was our first rally in a WRC-car, by the way. It snowed sleet the night before the start of the rally, which during the night froze to a 5 cm. combination of snow/ice on the stages. It was not sheet ice, but slippery as hell as we only had gravel tyres (we had no clue it could snow in Estonia in mid-october...). It eventually got warmer during the day and conditions became quite good, but the first three stages was a very interesting and scary balancing act just to stay on the road. But we made it through, as did actually most of the other teams competing. We just had to drive more slowly, and not take any chances. Believe me, the conditions on these three stages was extreme. But we couldn`t sit down and cry, could we, if we wanted to take part in the rally?
In 2002 there was maximum of 1cm of snow and some icy patches. It also melted quite fast.
And to answer Daniel - snow-tyres were not allowed.

[jparker]

Can stages be salted in the next few hours?

[malscar]

After reading all the posts about the shortening of Friday's stages, I realise that everyone has made the assumption that the stages were shortened because of the WRC tyres.

I suggest that the real reason has nothing to do with the WRC/GrpN etc cars / tyres / competence of the driver. Have any of you geniuses thought it may be because the emergency vehicles would not be able to get into certain parts of the stages to extract a competitor who is in need of medical attention?

[Helstar]

SS1 Hafren from 19.1 to 3.67km
SS2 Sweet Lamb from 5.11 to 4.28km
SS3 Myherin from 35.34 to 18.28km

and repeated in SS4-5-6

no comment ...

[AndiG]

Mikko Hirvonen´s co-driver Jarmo Lethinen said that they are driving for the title and that he will fasten the seat belts a bit harder at that lousy conditions...
Seems that Citroen wants to win the the title without hard fight - shame at them!

[Gard]

After reading all the posts about the shortening of Friday's stages, I realise that everyone has made the assumption that the stages were shortened because of the WRC tyres.

I suggest that the real reason has nothing to do with the WRC/GrpN etc cars / tyres / competence of the driver. Have any of you geniuses thought it may be because the emergency vehicles would not be able to get into certain parts of the stages to extract a competitor who is in need of medical attention?

Agree, it seems that this is beeing forgotten every time it's talk about stage shortening or cancelations.

[AndiG]

After reading all the posts about the shortening of Friday's stages, I realise that everyone has made the assumption that the stages were shortened because of the WRC tyres.

I suggest that the real reason has nothing to do with the WRC/GrpN etc cars / tyres / competence of the driver. Have any of you geniuses thought it may be because the emergency vehicles would not be able to get into certain parts of the stages to extract a competitor who is in need of medical attention?


I don´t think that this is the real reason. I think that it has to be possible to get into a stage with a bit of ice and snow with an ambulance car with winter tyres! And if british ambulance drivers are not used to such conditions there is also the possibility of helicopters...

[MikeD]

Fotos and videos from the shakedown?

Click on Fotogalerie 01-06

http://www.motorline.cc/rallye/index.php/article=148728

[cali]

I don´t think that this is the real reason. I think that it has to be possible to get into a stage with a bit of ice and snow with an ambulance car with winter tyres! And if british ambulance drivers are not used to such conditions there is also the possibility of helicopters...

And where the hell should this helicopter land when the accident is in the middle of thick forest?

[Leon]

The "Lovell" on the side of Guy Wilks Mitsu refers to the late Mark Lovell?

[pino]

SS1 Hafren from 19.1 to 3.67km
SS2 Sweet Lamb from 5.11 to 4.28km
SS3 Myherin from 35.34 to 18.28km

and repeated in SS4-5-6

no comment ...


What a joke :blackeye:

[Tom206wrc]

...
Seems that Citroen wants to win the the title without hard fight - shame at them!



In the article of Rallye-Magazin, Ford expressed AGREEMENT with the decision,... :rolleyes:

[RS]

Perhaps it doesn't matter anymore whether there are 50kms of stages or 150kms, afterall as we have learnt many times this year Mr Wilson can change the positions and order of his cars at the end of the day anyhow. I wonder whether he has worked out how snow will affect the sweeping issues yet.

[Viking]

SS1 Hafren from 19.1 to 3.67km
SS2 Sweet Lamb from 5.11 to 4.28km
SS3 Myherin from 35.34 to 18.28km

and repeated in SS4-5-6

no comment ...



Well you got to add more than 400km liaison, so at least they get some hours in their cars :cool:

[Livewireshock]

Well you got to add more than 400km liaison, so at least they get some hours in their cars :cool:

3 hours drive just to get to the start of SS1.

Good morning, or good evening to those of us on the warmer side of the globe. Should be very interesting how it all goes.

[Donney]

Another rallysprint.... brilliant!

[ProRally]

So it is official Honda exits F1, who will be the first manufacturer to pull out of WRC ?

[AndiG]

And where the hell should this helicopter land when the accident is in the middle of thick forest?


Helicopter pilotes don´t need much place for landing (I have some experience)! As i know the stages of Rally GB (I´ve been there for 2 times) that won´t be any problem. Most of the time the forest isn't that close to the road.

[Brother John]

After reading all the posts don´t you see we talking about the same sh!t all the time?
This becomes the most booooooring rally which we have ever see.
What will them say on wrc radio? Only bad music?
Probably no split times?
:dozey:

[Livewireshock]

Hafren cancelled!!!!!

[ProRally]

SS1 already cancelled !!!!

[Bruno Portela]

Good morning everybody.

Can someone supply me the best link for SS split times?

Thanks in advance

[RS]

So it is official Honda exits F1, who will be the first manufacturer to pull out of WRC ?

One presumes Suzuki?

[Brother John]

Good morning everybody.

Can someone supply me the best link for SS split times?

Thanks in advance

:?: Split times on 3 km. stages! :rotflmao:

[Viking]

:?: Split times on 3 km. stages! :rotflmao:

Same as in downhill skiing :D

[Bruno Portela]

:?: Split times on 3 km. stages! :rotflmao:


Yep, you're right :)

I hope that tomorrow stage can be a bit longer!!!

[noel157]

Is Vysledky not covering the rally?

[WRC1]

Is Vysledky not covering the rally?


there is NO rally to cover.....yet

[Iskald]

SS1 already cancelled !!!!

The farce continues. Weather conditions and safety considerations is said to be the cause. Great, when they can`t even run a 3.6 km stage it better be extreme to say the least...

Bet the crews having done a three hour liason from Cardiff is happy now.

[Daniel]

3 hours drive just to get to the start of SS1.

Good morning, or good evening to those of us on the warmer side of the globe. Should be very interesting how it all goes.

Or how it all doesn't go!

[Tom206wrc]

WRC.COM and co are SLEEPING ??? SS1 has started since several minutes now :mad:

[Daniel]

WRC.COM and co are SLEEPING ??? SS1 has started since several minutes now :mad:
It's you that's sleeping (as usual). SS1 is cancelled

[Viking]

Time for this maybe?

Ok, will there be snow in rally Norway? Answer is a big yes looking out my office window :)

[René]

:rotflmao:

[Koppomsbo]

WRC.COM and co are SLEEPING ??? SS1 has started since several minutes now :mad:

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=3363&desc=FLASH%20NEWS:%20SS1%20cancelled

[Koppomsbo]

One presumes Suzuki?

Dont u think the money that suzuki puts into WRC its something like Hondas F1 one boss picks out of their nose?

But, yes.. Ill guess Suzuki will be the one who have the hardest task to convince the guys who pays the show to do so for one more year

[Iskald]

Rallyradio just reported that they had actually driven through the whole Hafren (SS1) stage this morning. And they did get through in their 4WD SUV - without studded tyres. Of course it was slippery on the ice, but sounds passable to me, unless I`m a complete idiot in understanding wintry conditions...Whats next, cancelling stages because of "slippery and dangerous mud", or whatever???

[Livewireshock]

Interview with SWRT's David Lapworth calling for two sets of tyres being made available for an event but choice to be FIA's call still.

All to avoid the hazards from today and the same as happened at Rally Japan. It is clear that is does put the WRC in a bad light that is can not handle certain conditions.

[WRC1]

it would be better to cancel the whole rallye instead of this y stage cancelations, this way the teams can save money instead driving arround for nothing

the drivers should play snooker instead driving, it is not that dangerous and eurosport would be happy ;o)

[jonkka]

I vote for snooker!

[Livewireshock]

It is not the WRC cars that are the concern but the lower powered 2wd cars that could struggle up the hills or go off road driving on the control tyre.

[Daniel]

Rallyradio just reported that they had actually driven through the whole Hafren (SS1) stage this morning. And they did get through in their 4WD SUV - without studded tyres. Of course it was slippery on the ice, but sounds passable to me, unless I`m a complete idiot in understanding wintry conditions...Whats next, cancelling stages because of "slippery and dangerous mud", or whatever???

Crawling through a stage at not much more than walking pace isn't right for WRCars.

[Daniel]

It is not the WRC cars that are the concern but the lower powered 2wd cars that could struggle up the hills or go off road driving on the control tyre.
Fancy transmission and 4wd will still not make WRCars driveable on gravel tyres on icy polished gravel roads.

If this were the case the WRCars and Goup N's could go through and the FWD cars could just be given a standard time.

[Leon]

the drivers should play snooker instead driving, it is not that dangerous and eurosport would be happy ;o)

or play those stupid slot cars like in their rally magazine program (i hate it) and they will be more happy (warm room, live coverage, not dangerous at all)

[Livewireshock]

I have a stage time for Leob of 3m05.3 for the cancelled SS1 via WRC.com splits

LOL

[Daniel]

it would be better to cancel the whole rallye instead of this y stage cancelations, this way the teams can save money instead driving arround for nothing

the drivers should play snooker instead driving, it is not that dangerous and eurosport would be happy ;o)

How will we know if the snooker coverage has overran and the WRC is on though?

[Viking]

it would be better to cancel the whole rallye instead of this y stage cancelations, this way the teams can save money instead driving arround for nothing

the drivers should play snooker instead driving, it is not that dangerous and eurosport would be happy ;o)

Yes, I have seen a lot of snooker over the years, waiting for the 15min wrc programs :(

[Tom206wrc]

It's you that's sleeping (as usual). SS1 is cancelled



At the start SS1 should have only been shortened to 3km... :mark:

[Leon]

Yes, I have seen a lot of snooker over the years, waiting for the 15min wrc programs :(

I quit subscription to Eurosport since 2002 for the same exact reasons. I still get mad when I remember the farce with the live coverage of the 1999 finland SS.

[Camelopard]

Cancel the thing now, give citroen the championship and let us all retire to the pub.

[WRC1]

How will we know if the snooker coverage has overran and the WRC is on though?


maybe the wrc guys should play snooker with theire helmets on, than we should recognize the change

[MikeD]

Loeb has done SS2 in 2.59.1

[John V]

Ok, here comes some info from Wales: second pass of Hafren seems to be possible, Sweet Lamb shortened from start and finish as well, the same for Myherin. Organisers kept the spectators placed alive.

[Iskald]

Crawling through a stage at not much more than walking pace isn't right for WRCars.

Rallying has always been about mastering difficult conditions and drive as fast or as slow as the conditions permits. How many times have we seen rallycars snailing through stages in Monte Carlo on slicks. That was really a gamble - when driver chose slicks even when they knew that the higher parts of the stages had snow or ice. They just had to go slow on those parts, but could profit on dry tarmac conditions in the lower altitude parts of the stage.

[MikeD]

Hirvonen +1.6

[noel157]

And Hirvonen loses 8 secs over 4km to Loeb.

[Daniel]

And Hirvonen loses 8 secs over 4km to Loeb.
Yet more proof that Loeb is a girl and can't drive in these conditions :rotflmao:

[MikeD]

Latvala +0.6
Sordo +2.0

[Brother John]

wooooooow already 3 min. rally today! :p :

[Daniel]

Rallying has always been about mastering difficult conditions and drive as fast or as slow as the conditions permits. How many times have we seen rallycars snailing through stages in Monte Carlo on slicks. That was really a gamble - when driver chose slicks even when they knew that the higher parts of the stages had snow or ice. They just had to go slow on those parts, but could profit on dry tarmac conditions in the lower altitude parts of the stage.

Key word there - Gamble

It's the drivers gamble to choose tyres which might not work on the whole stage. This year it's not been their choice, it's been forced upon them. I despaired when watching Sebastien lose Rally Australia with a bad tyre choice in 2003 when Petter chose well. I didn't like the result as such but it was in my mind a great decision and a great drive for Petter and it made him champion that year. Those are he sort of things I want to see in the WRC, not stage cancellations and tyres so clogged up with mud they might as well be driving on sheet ice.......

[BDunnell]

Rallying has always been about mastering difficult conditions and drive as fast or as slow as the conditions permits. How many times have we seen rallycars snailing through stages in Monte Carlo on slicks. That was really a gamble - when driver chose slicks even when they knew that the higher parts of the stages had snow or ice. They just had to go slow on those parts, but could profit on dry tarmac conditions in the lower altitude parts of the stage.

:up:

[Koppomsbo]

atko fast :)

[MikeD]

Atkinson -2.2

[Anti-Lag-Rocks]

Go Atko! Nice time!

[Viking]

Subaru 1-2 :eek:

[noel157]

there is NO rally to cover.....yet


Thanks, an answer as useful as the snow and ice on SS1.............

[Daniel]

:up:
Oh come on Ben I think you know better than to agree with that for the very reasons I posted above. I agree that stages should go ahead unless the stages are truly unpassable but only if the cars have the option to choose the tyres they want which is what happened in the past, which is what we all have fond memories of.

[jonkka]

Duval faster still

[Livewireshock]

Good effort for both Subaru's

[Brother John]

Key word there - Gamble

It's the drivers gamble to choose tyres which might not work on the whole stage. This year it's not been their choice, it's been forced upon them. I despaired when watching Sebastien lose Rally Australia with a bad tyre choice in 2003 when Petter chose well. I didn't like the result as such but it was in my mind a great decision and a great drive for Petter and it made him champion that year. Those are he sort of things I want to see in the WRC, not stage cancellations and tyres so clogged up with mud they might as well be driving on sheet ice.......

I think you have to find another sport that has do with speed. :rolleyes:

[Mauri A]

Looks like the grip is better for later starters.