Next Brit in WRC/IRC

[Sulland]

We need at least one team from Great Britain in WRC and IRC (Apart from Wilson Jr)

There are 3 drivers as I see it that could have made a difference

Guy Wilks
Chris Meeke
Adam Gould

The motorsport "capital" in the world is on the Island that clamis not to be a part of Europe ;) , but since McRae and Burns no one with enough talent has been creating headlines and sparked interrest of Rally in the UK.

What are the plans from the 3 drivers above for 09, and are there others we need to look out for ?

Maybe the Hamilton Mania can help rally drivers as well....

[ProRally]

During the Pirelli Shootout in Austria, Mr Gould is convinced that he will be the next UK World Champion in WRC...

Pretty bold statement to make about yourself...

[rsmith16]

Isn't Meeke already in talks with one of the teams re next year's IRC....

Certainly nothing wrong with having the confidence in yourself to think you'll be the next Brit WRC champ.

[Bazza2541]

Meeke is Irish. And unfortunately I think his boat has sailed as far as a WRC drive is concerned, but IRC is looking hopeful.

[Sulland]

Meeke is Irish. And unfortunately I think his boat has sailed as far as a WRC drive is concerned, but IRC is looking hopeful.

I am so sorry for that mistake, but please understrand that for us outsiders you are all considered islanders, even if there are several borders that has to be crossed..... ;)

[Bazza2541]

I am so sorry for that mistake, but please understrand that for us outsiders you are all considered islanders, even if there are several borders that has to be crossed..... ;)

Doesn't matter what you call him, fact remains that he has missed the boat as far as the WRC goes. :(

[Livewireshock]

After Guy's stella performance last weekend here in Australia (except for the roll), he definitely deserves a drive.

He had the 2wd Honda beyond the ragged edge on every single stage.

[sal]

Richard and Colin's careers were both allowed to develop and flourish under David Richard's stewardship at Prodrive. Without his enthusiasm and persistence it's unlikely at least one of them (Mr McRae) would have gone on to be World Champion. As has been said many times before the sport is very different to 10 or 15 years ago and a driver with no money behind him will not even get a seat never mind be allowed three of four years to crack it like Colin was. Therefore unless we get a British svengali like a certain Finn or DR is allowed to foster another Brit (unlikley) we may never have another driver at the top level let alone a Champion. Guy has the speed and may get his money together. Adam Gould has proven quick in his class in a poorly supported BRC. Kris may have seen his chance pass as Citroen now have Ogier in the wings. I hope I'm wrong but it's looking a bit bleak. The F1 effect of Hamilton is unlikley to have any spin off either in the short term and means the UK media's glare will be even further from rallying witness barely a mention of Loebs fifth championship on the same weekend as Lewis claimed the crown...

[MikeD]

Meeke is Irish. And unfortunately I think his boat has sailed as far as a WRC drive is concerned, but IRC is looking hopeful.


Isn't he an Ulsterman? (Like Eddie Irvine & Adam Carroll)

But yes, he has clearly missed his boat. Bad mouthing team-bosses right, left and center made sure he will never drive for a good team in WRC.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Doesn't matter what you call him, fact remains that he has missed the boat as far as the WRC goes. :(

Its not that simple Bazza.

There only is one boat... the €2.5 million boat.

[Bazza2541]

Its not that simple Bazza.

There only is one boat... the €2.5 million boat.

It's exactly that simple. You either have a drive or you don't.

[Bazza2541]

Isn't he an Ulsterman? (Like Eddie Irvine & Adam Carroll)

But yes, he has clearly missed his boat. Bad mouthing team-bosses right, left and center made sure he will never drive for a good team in WRC.

Yes he is an Ulsterman, so am I, whats your point?

[Buzz Lightyear]

It's exactly that simple. You either have a drive or you don't.

No, thats not what you were implying.

The boat is there...ready to sail... with Citroen, Subaru and Ford, you simply need the lolly.

The MSA system is a dead duck, and has been from Day 1. So young Gould may just join the queue.

[Bazza2541]

[quote="Buzz Lightyear"]No, thats not what you were implying.

QUOTE]

What are you smoking?

[MikeD]

Yes he is an Ulsterman, so am I, whats your point?

Isn't an Ulsterman British by flag and nationality - despite being on the irish Island? (Refering to you saying he was Irish).

If my memory serves me right Eddie Irvine wanted to drive with an Irish flag when he joined Ferrari, but then his family was threatened, and he ended up driving with no flag or something. I think the compromise was no flag but a shamrock on his helmet.

[Bazza2541]

Isn't an Ulsterman British by flag and nationality - despite being on the irish Island? (Refering to you saying he was Irish).

If my memory serves me right Eddie Irvine wanted to drive with an Irish flag when he joined Ferrari, but then his family was threatened, and he ended up driving with no flag or something. I think the compromise was no flag but a shamrock on his helmet.


I live 15 miles from Kris Meekes family home, born and bred. I have Irish passport and Irish nationality.
As for Mr Irvine, he run with Irish Tricolor with Shamrock in the centre.
I think the confusion lays with the governing body. Some Irish drivers go with MSA and are required to drive with Union Jack on their car, some go with MSI and use Irish Tricolor.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Yes Mike, but there is still people from those parts that want to twist everything into an argument.

You are correct about Eddie, he raced with no flag.

Thats not the issue.

The issue is the absolute and complete lack of support from anyone, sponsors, governing body, manufacturers, team... for anything remotely British. I think even if another McRae came along now.. he would not get into WRC.

I dont think its much easier in any country, other than FIN, SWE, NOR etcc. as it appears to be their national sport. In UK we have F1, Rugby, Premiership, Golf, Sailing....... Rallying is in the gutter in comparison.

[sal]

I think even if another McRae came along now.. he would not get into WRC.

.

Just what said in my post before the discussion descended into the usual "just because he's from Northern Ireland it dosnt make him a brit" debate.

[Bazza2541]

Irvine has self-identified as being Irish:

“ But at the end of the day, I’m Irish. I mean, I’ve got a British passport, but if you’re from Ireland, north or south, you’re Irish. And ‘British’ is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn’t it? ”
—1995 interview.[14]

From Wikipedia on Eddie Irvine.

[MikeD]

I live 15 miles from Kris Meekes family home, born and bred. I have Irish passport and Irish nationality.
As for Mr Irvine, he run with Irish Tricolor with Shamrock in the centre.
I think the confusion lays with the governing body. Some Irish drivers go with MSA and are required to drive with Union Jack on their car, some go with MSI and use Irish Tricolor.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up :) A little confusing from an outsider...

[GruppoB]

Irvine has self-identified as being Irish:

“ But at the end of the day, I’m Irish. I mean, I’ve got a British passport, but if you’re from Ireland, north or south, you’re Irish. And ‘British’ is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn’t it? ”
—1995 interview.[14]

From Wikipedia on Eddie Irvine.

nice to hear someone thinking above the petty conflict.

[Buzz Lightyear]

In all honesty, Meeke and Wilks are the only realistic possibility. Both are very quick. There is one-one else, even remotely, likely to challenge these two for speed in the next 5 years.

[Tomi]

In all honesty, Meeke and Wilks are the only realistic possibility. Both are very quick. There is one-one else, even remotely, likely to challenge these two for speed in the next 5 years.

I really hope Wilks will get the Subaru seat so we can see how fast he is, my guess is around top 8, but the good thing is that he is trying seriously to get a seat, what can not be said about the other.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I really hope Wilks will get the Subaru seat so we can see how fast he is, my guess is around top 8, but the good thing is that he is trying seriously to get a seat, what can not be said about the other.

How can you be so right tomi.... every time. its really is quite astonishing.

;)

[cut the b.s.]

I live 15 miles from Kris Meekes family home, born and bred. I have Irish passport and Irish nationality.
As for Mr Irvine, he run with Irish Tricolor with Shamrock in the centre.
I think the confusion lays with the governing body. Some Irish drivers go with MSA and are required to drive with Union Jack on their car, some go with MSI and use Irish Tricolor.

Sure isnt all Ireland part of the British Isles Bazza?

Hope Wilks can get a seat sorted for next year, but saddly he and Meeke are both getting old for a break now

[Buzz Lightyear]

Sure isnt all Ireland part of the British Isles Bazza?

Hope Wilks can get a seat sorted for next year, but saddly he and Meeke are both getting old for a break now

I really dont think age has much to do with it. Gronholm has only just turned 40, so its 12+ years older than Wilks/Meeke, so its really irrelavent.

[Tomi]

I really dont think age has much to do with it.

True, but it comes an issue when there is a few equal fast drivers and a few years younger.

[cut the b.s.]

I really dont think age has much to do with it. Gronholm has only just turned 40, so its 12+ years older than Wilks/Meeke, so its really irrelavent.

I dont think its that important, but when you hear that a 18 year old was favored over a 22 years old because of age at the Pirelli thing it make think these guys are pushing on a bit?

I think it will be interesting to see how long the likes of Mikkelsen will stick with top flight rallying, I dont think they will be still at it much past 30. Traditionally rally drivers have built up to the work load of a full championship, now we have some young lads who are rallying nearly every weekend from a young age, sure they will be good, and I'm sure they are enjoying it but the I am also sure that the long apprenticeship served by the likes of Gronholm/Makkinen only helped them to appreciate the break when it came and make full use of it. I dont expect the well managed and promoted youngsters to have their longevity.

[Tomi]

I dont think its that important, but when you hear that a 18 year old was favored over a 22 years old because of age at the Pirelli thing it make think these guys are pushing on a bit?

I think it will be interesting to see how long the likes of Mikkelsen will stick with top flight rallying, I dont think they will be still at it much past 30. Traditionally rally drivers have built up to the work load of a full championship, now we have some young lads who are rallying nearly every weekend from a young age, sure they will be good, and I'm sure they are enjoying it but the I am also sure that the long apprenticeship served by the likes of Gronholm/Makkinen only helped them to appreciate the break when it came and make full use of it. I dont expect the well managed and promoted youngsters to have their longevity.

I agree, before the drivers was more ready when they came to compete on the top level, the current recce rules gives also too big advantage for those who can affort to drive the stages from early age. I also dont think the youngsters will have very long carreers, they get everything too easy, and the sport today is so intensive and much more promo than in the past too, so there will be burnouts ahead in the future.

[Bazza2541]

Sure isnt all Ireland part of the British Isles Bazza?



I love wikipedia.
The British Isles (Irish: variously Na hOileáin Bhriotanacha, Oileáin Iarthair Eorpa, Éire agus an Bhreatain Mhór;[2] Manx: Ellanyn Goaldagh; Scottish Gaelic: Eileanan Breatannach; Welsh: Ynysoedd Prydain) are a group of islands off the northwest coast of continental Europe which comprise Great Britain, Ireland and a number of smaller islands.[3] The term British Isles is controversial in relation to Ireland,[4] where many people [5] find the term objectionable; the Irish government also discourages its usage.[6] There is evidence that as a result of these problems, "Britain and Ireland" is becoming a preferred description.[7][8]

There are two sovereign states located on the islands: the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Ireland.[9]

[Buzz Lightyear]

Malcolm Wilson was a big advocate of younger drivers some years ago, which served a purpose at the time.

That has gone quiet now, since he needed Marcus to get titles, and Duval (not old, but more experienced) to try a resurrect there title ambitions.

Ford winning neither driver of manufactures this year only emphasis the point. Age and therefore experience, can only be an advantage... until it actually physically affects your speed i.e. reaction times... (about +38?).

If both Andres Mikkelson (or Adam Gould to exaggerate the point) and Wilks/Meeke where before me, as a team principle, with the same amount of money, id know who I would pick.

[Buzz Lightyear]

True, but it comes an issue when there is a few equal fast drivers and a few years younger.

My point was, that if Marcus is a benchmarch, for when you should bow out of competition, then Wilks/Meeke has 10 years ahead of them. Hypothetically, they would have a decade at the top of the sport, which tallies with you also saying that Mikkelson etc.. would leave the sport at 30... ie. 10 years.

So you can assume, you really have only a limited lifetime at the top of the sport, regardless what age you are.

[Tomi]

My point was, that if Marcus is a benchmarch, for when you should bow out of competition, then Wilks/Meeke has 10 years ahead of them..

My was that if Wilks/Meeke would be even close to the level of driver Grönholm was when he signed with Peugeot, they would be driving already in some worksteam. Bosse is more an exception.

[COD]

Brits seem to complaining they don't have the managers like Jouhki is Finland and that's why they don't have drivers in WRC. But in an interview a few years ago Mr. Jouhki himself said that he could take a British driver under his wings should he find that would be good enough. Hasn't found one yet....

[Simmi]

Brits seem to complaining they don't have the managers like Jouhki is Finland and that's why they don't have drivers in WRC. But in an interview a few years ago Mr. Jouhki himself said that he could take a British driver under his wings should he find that would be good enough. Hasn't found one yet....

I find it hard to believe he would take on a non-Scandanavian driver. I dont think he would find it easy to generate sponsorships and things like that for a British driver. There doesn't seem to be any interest from UK companies, and that was even before the economic downturn. It isn't even just sponsorships and money. There just doesn't seem to be much passion circling the sport lately - both in the UK and worldwide. I think having that would be at least half the battle of getting a new driver funded.

Meeke is the guy I'd pick if I was a millionaire looking to help out one British driver (he drives with the British flag next to his name in the rear window). Sadly I am not a millionaire.

[AndyRAC]

I find it hard to believe he would take on a non-Scandanavian driver. I dont think he would find it easy to generate sponsorships and things like that for a British driver. There doesn't seem to be any interest from UK companies, and that was even before the economic downturn. It isn't even just sponsorships and money. There just doesn't seem to be much passion circling the sport lately - both in the UK and worldwide. I think having that would be at least half the battle of getting a new driver funded.

Meeke is the guy I'd pick if I was a millionaire looking to help out one British driver (he drives with the British flag next to his name in the rear window). Sadly I am not a millionaire.

Economic downturn or not, there is very little interest in WRC in UK, now that Lewis is F1 Champion it's probably made it even worse.

[DonJippo]

I find it hard to believe he would take on a non-Scandanavian driver.

He would and actually did organise a test session to evaluate potential candidates but said none of the one's tested, including Meeke & Wilks, met the requirements he has set.

[Buzz Lightyear]

He would and actually did organise a test session to evaluate potential candidates but said none of the one's tested, including Meeke & Wilks, met the requirements he has set.

Neither Wilks or Meeke attended any Joukki test.

[DonJippo]

Neither Wilks or Meeke attended any Joukki test.

I'm pretty sure in an interview he gave some time ago they were mentioned to be part of the evaluation but I need to find the article and check it out.

[COD]

I find it hard to believe he would take on a non-Scandanavian driver. I dont think he would find it easy to generate sponsorships and things like that for a British driver. There doesn't seem to be any interest from UK companies, and that was even before the economic downturn. It isn't even just sponsorships and money. There just doesn't seem to be much passion circling the sport lately - both in the UK and worldwide. I think having that would be at least half the battle of getting a new driver funded.

Meeke is the guy I'd pick if I was a millionaire looking to help out one British driver (he drives with the British flag next to his name in the rear window). Sadly I am not a millionaire.

It is not about sponsorship really, he can not gain that kind of sponsorship money from Finland either. The drivers are investments to him, the money is generated when the driver gets a factory deal. If he would have found any driver that he sees as potential new top driver, he would have taken one, no matter which countery he came from,

[Buzz Lightyear]

My was that if Wilks/Meeke would be even close to the level of driver Grönholm was when he signed with Peugeot, they would be driving already in some worksteam. Bosse is more an exception.

I was only using him as am example. But when your on the subject, I would stick my neck out and say that Meeke would be as quick as Gronholm on tarmac.

[RS]

So who is currently in the Jouhki stable? And was Mr Gronholm part of his gang?

[L5->R5/CR]

So who is currently in the Jouhki stable? And was Mr Gronholm part of his gang?

One of the Finns that is more up to date can correct me if I am wrong but I believe Jarri Matti was the last Jouhki project. Mr. Jouhki also said he would be the last driver he would take on as JML was the most expensive project he had ever had, or something along those lines...

[OldF]

So who is currently in the Jouhki stable? And was Mr Gronholm part of his gang?

Marcus was not in Jouhkis gang.

[OldF]

One of the Finns that is more up to date can correct me if I am wrong but I believe Jarri Matti was the last Jouhki project. Mr. Jouhki also said he would be the last driver he would take on as JML was the most expensive project he had ever had, or something along those lines...

JML was probably the last one. It’s expensive but also a time consuming project.

[Tomi]

I was only using him as am example. But when your on the subject, I would stick my neck out and say that Meeke would be as quick as Gronholm on tarmac.

Lol, I had to check the calendar if it's april fools day today, keep on dreaming.

[Tomi]

One of the Finns that is more up to date can correct me if I am wrong but I believe Jarri Matti was the last Jouhki project. Mr. Jouhki also said he would be the last driver he would take on as JML was the most expensive project he had ever had, or something along those lines...

J-M will be the last one he will help from the beginning, but he has said that if he find someone interesting, who has done a part of the work by him self, he might help.

[Buzz Lightyear]

J-M will be the last one he will help from the beginning, but he has said that if he find someone interesting, who has done a part of the work by him self, he might help.
Mikkelson? Aava? Adam Gould?!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Lol, I had to check the calendar if it's april fools day today, keep on dreaming.

oh, i forgot you need be finnish to drive a rally car fast. just a pity loeb is spoiling your party for the past 5 years.

[Tomi]

oh, i forgot you need be finnish to drive a rally car fast. just a pity loeb is spoiling your party for the past 5 years.

Exactly where has meeke been faster than grönholm?

[Buzz Lightyear]

Exactly where has meeke been faster than grönholm?

But for you to say that he could never be, is not a well informed judgement. You wouldnt say Latvala is not as fast as Marcus, becuase in places he maybe is, so why should it not apply to another drivers, that just so happen not to be Finnish.

[alexlake]

I really hope Wilks will get the Subaru seat so we can see how fast he is, my guess is around top 8, but the good thing is that he is trying seriously to get a seat, what can not be said about the other.

I agree! :D

[cut the b.s.]

Exactly where has meeke been faster than grönholm?


When has Marcus, or even Seb for that matter ever beaten Meeke, Wilks, Mikkelson, Ostberg etc without having a machinery advantage? They have never competed on anything like equal terms, all opinions on how each would do are entirely subjective and everyone is entitled to think how they choose, but your statement above is just plain stupid.

[RS]

I really hope Wilks will get the Subaru seat so we can see how fast he is, my guess is around top 8, but the good thing is that he is trying seriously to get a seat, what can not be said about the other.

Meeke is talking to Peugeot about IRC, perhaps turning into the championship more for talent than money ;)

[jonkka]

So who is currently in the Jouhki stable?

Jouhki's gang in chronological order:

Juha Kankkunen
Tommi Makinen
Harri Rovanpera
Toni Gardemeister
Mikko Hirvonen
Jari-Matti Latvala

[noel157]

I really hope Wilks will get the Subaru seat so we can see how fast he is, my guess is around top 8, but the good thing is that he is trying seriously to get a seat, what can not be said about the other.

Tomi, you said this about Meeke in the past, can you expand on your opinion that he isn't trying hard enough?

[Tomi]

Tomi, you said this about Meeke in the past, can you expand on your opinion that he isn't trying hard enough?

Well, Wilks did drive some WRC events with a Ford some years back, now he have a campaign where he try to get sponsors to get a seat in WRC, what has Meeke been doing lately?

[noel157]

Well, Wilks did drive some WRC events with a Ford some years back, now he have a campaign where he try to get sponsors to get a seat in WRC, what has Meeke been doing lately?

Well, I guess it's better asking than simply being negative about him.
Like any other driver in his situation he works 110% trying to further his career. Wilks is now in the public eye with his €2m club but prior to that few knew exactly what companies or organisations he was having discussions with. As I'm sure you agree we only hear about such things when there is a positive outcome. Same situation with Meeke - he works 110% trying to gather support as well as trying to make a daily living to support himself (through setting up rally cars for privateers and working at a rally school). He has had quite an active year on the Irish and WRC rally series as well as being asked to test for several works and semi works teams. Hopefully he'll have some type of programme in 09.

Ref Jouhki, I'm don't think Meeke ever tested for him, I not even sure the two have ever has any contact but I'm willing to be corrected on that.

Would Meeke be faster or as fast as Bosse on asphalt? In the right circumstances I don't think there would be much between them, maybe Meeke might just have the upper hand but I guess we'll never find out.


Jouhki's gang:
Juha Kankkunen
Tommi Makinen
Harri Rovanpera
Toni Gardemeister
Mikko Hirvonen
Jari-Matti Latvala


Can we assume Jouhki thinks there is no talent outside Finland? Or perhaps his contacts and family connections can only offer support to Finish drivers?

[Tomi]

Ref Jouhki, I'm don't think Meeke ever tested for him, I not even sure the two have ever has any contact but I'm willing to be corrected on that.

Would Meeke be faster or as fast as Bosse on asphalt? In the right circumstances I don't think there would be much between them, maybe Meeke might just have the upper hand but I guess we'll never find out.


Jouhki's gang:
Juha Kankkunen
Tommi Makinen
Harri Rovanpera
Toni Gardemeister
Mikko Hirvonen
Jari-Matti Latvala


Can we assume Jouhki thinks there is no talent outside Finland? Or perhaps his contacts and family connections can only offer support to Finish drivers?

As someone allready said Meeke would not qualify according to Jouhki, what comes to his gang, everyone has won a WRC event except Gardemeister, that speaks for it self, a few years ago he did go to Estonia and check out much hyped Mölder, so its not only about Finnish drivers.

[noel157]

As someone allready said Meeke would not qualify according to Jouhki, what comes to his gang, everyone has won a WRC event except Gardemeister, that speaks for it self, a few years ago he did go to Estonia and check out much hyped Mölder, so its not only about Finnish drivers.

So it remains that he has only ever adopted Finnish drivers, maybe just a coincidence.
It would be good if a few more countries had somebody like Jouhki willing to take a chance and help up and coming talent with the type of assistance and funding that he has provided.

[Tomi]

It would be good if a few more countries had somebody like Jouhki willing to take a chance and help up and coming talent with the type of assistance and funding that he has provided.

Jouhki dont take big chanses, he look carefully who he chooses.

[COD]

Jouhki dont take big chanses, he look carefully who he chooses.


He has made a few unsuccesful choises as well. To name one: Mökkönen

[Tomi]

He has made a few unsuccesful choises as well. To name one: Mökkönen
Yes, but I think you have to admit that let's say 1 of 10 drivers with big potential ever reach to become a works driver, Jouhkis sucess precentage is quite high.

[Sulland]

Is this a way to go for drivers ?
http://guywilks.co.uk/500club.aspx

Anyone knows the status of this initiative - has it been a success ?

[c4]

Is this a way to go for drivers ?
http://guywilks.co.uk/500club.aspx

Anyone knows the status of this initiative - has it been a success ?

It was said in a few British publications that he had raised around half the amount at present. A few months ago the figure he had raised was quoted at £600,000 but now it seems it's around the 1 million mark.

[noel157]

Isn't he an Ulsterman? (Like Eddie Irvine & Adam Carroll)

But yes, he has clearly missed his boat. Bad mouthing team-bosses right, left and center made sure he will never drive for a good team in WRC.

Mike, good thing Citroen don't agree with you...............

Hardly likely to much opposition but good experience (although haven't seen an entry yet).

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/meeke-gets-surprise-call-to-take-on-an-italian-rally-14077872.html

[Tom206wrc]

I think we have the answer now for IRC: Kris Meeke :p :

I hope Guy Wilks will manage to get a program with either Proton or Skoda in IRC too ;)

[Roy]

What about Cave?

Youngest driver at a WRC event. He has good plans in 2009

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72693

[PLuto]

He will publish his plans next week.

[Maui J.]

What about Cave?

Youngest driver at a WRC event. He has good plans in 2009

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72693

Autosport have their facts wrong. Cave was youngest driver ever to start Rally GB. The youngest driver ever to start WRC event is Kiwi girl Kristy Nelson aged 16 at Rally NZ '06. The next youngest is fellow Kiwi teenager Sloan Cox, also aged 16 (but with more days than Kristy) at Rally NZ '08.

[Robbied]

Either way and whatever happens, it would be great to see another Brit in the top flight, whatever that ends up as, of rallying....

Its been far too long....

[Abarth]

So when is Wilks joining Meeke - that took IRC by surprise !

Is Wilks better than him ?

[wotaguy]

god thats another thread on its own, wilkes definatly has more topflight expierance, he is two times british champion. but i personally think meeke is faster :)