PDA

View Full Version : M2 or IRC


Sulland
2nd November 2008, 11:14
Who of the drivers in todays WRC, but mainly the M2 drivers would benefit and have a better life in IRC, being able to challenge for outright victory, instead of points if the M1 drivers stop ?

List of possible combinations for 09.

http://planetemarcus.free.fr/team09.htm
PLuto
2nd November 2008, 11:42
I think for drivers like Rautenbach, Henning Solberg or Wilson is better to stay in WRC and fight for second half of top ten than start in IRC and be without any chance to good result... :o
RS
2nd November 2008, 14:43
I think for drivers like Rautenbach, Henning Solberg or Wilson is better to stay in WRC and fight for second half of top ten than start in IRC and be without any chance to good result... :o

Yep, they will find points rather easier to come by in WRC.

IRC can be a good choice for a driver and his sponsors, but if you do not have much talent you will be nowhere.
jonkka
3rd November 2008, 05:42
Who of the drivers in todays WRC, but mainly the M2 drivers would benefit and have a better life in IRC, being able to challenge for outright victory, instead of points if the M1 drivers stop ?

It hardly matters whether they are first line drivers in second rate series or support drivers in first class championship. (1 x 2) = (2 x 1) = 2.
RS
3rd November 2008, 09:23
It hardly matters whether they are first line drivers in second rate series or support drivers in first class championship. (1 x 2) = (2 x 1) = 2.

In what sense is the IRC a second rate series?
Sulland
3rd November 2008, 09:42
I think Henning in a 207 would be a winning combo on the gravel events, same as with Duval on the asphalt ones.

And IRC being a 2nd rate series I would agree with for 08, but if they continue to improve they will pass WRC in 09 !
RS
3rd November 2008, 09:50
I think Henning in a 207 would be a winning combo on the gravel events, same as with Duval on the asphalt ones.


Duval I agree. Not sure about Henning, he was pretty slow in Japan for example.
AndyRAC
3rd November 2008, 09:54
The WRC is hardly first rate either. The sooner people realise this the better.
Loeb has just won his 5th Title, yet no mention on news or media.
Sulland
3rd November 2008, 10:09
Would be interesting to see Loeb, Latvala, Petter S and Hirvonen in a S2000 to see if their driving style would be more spectacular, and get more out of the S2000 cars than the IRC guys does today !!
jonkka
3rd November 2008, 16:42
In what sense is the IRC a second rate series?

In what sense it's anything but 2nd rate series, except by personal preference?

10 events annually - of which almost all are held in Europe - only few classics? Inexperienced or has-been drivers? Screaming atmospheric low-tech cars? No, there is nothing in IRC that I like.
Tomi
3rd November 2008, 17:25
Loeb has just won his 5th Title, yet no mention on news or media.

Really? Here it has been in all news and newspapers.
UKOG~Will
3rd November 2008, 17:54
Loeb has just won his 5th Title, yet no mention on news or media.

BBC couldn't care less about rallying, ITV had F1... :rolleyes:
Motorsportfun
3rd November 2008, 18:31
The WRC is hardly first rate either. The sooner people realise this the better.
Loeb has just won his 5th Title, yet no mention on news or media.


Here in Italy there are various short news about Loeb and his 5th title, although Ferrari has lost F.1 Drivers' title and won Manufacturers one.
Looks like a miracle, but is it! :D
RS
3rd November 2008, 19:58
In what sense it's anything but 2nd rate series, except by personal preference?

10 events annually - of which almost all are held in Europe - only few classics? Inexperienced or has-been drivers? Screaming atmospheric low-tech cars? No, there is nothing in IRC that I like.

Well, WRC has only 12 events next year. The IRC calendar has not been released yet but will have Monte Carlo, San Remo, possibly Safari next year.

Cars might be lower tech, but maybe high tech isn't such a great thing for spectacle. WRCars might have 2 or 3 times the torque of an S2000 but they don't slide anymore.

So you are enjoying the repeated results, pay drivers and top 8s separated by 45 minutes in WRC?
jparker
3rd November 2008, 21:18
In what sense it's anything but 2nd rate series, except by personal preference?

10 events annually - of which almost all are held in Europe - only few classics? Inexperienced or has-been drivers? Screaming atmospheric low-tech cars? No, there is nothing in IRC that I like.

You just proved yourself wrong by your own criteria, because your judgment is based entirely on personal preference. In terms of testing driver's skills, IRC is as good as any other series, and unless you have ground for comparison (which you don't) you are just talking.
jbmarcus21
3rd November 2008, 21:31
Who of the drivers in todays WRC, but mainly the M2 drivers would benefit and have a better life in IRC, being able to challenge for outright victory, instead of points if the M1 drivers stop ?

List of possible combinations for 09.

http://planetemarcus.free.fr/team09.htm

thank you for the link of mywebsite ;)
cosmicpanda
4th November 2008, 02:47
You just proved yourself wrong by your own criteria, because your judgment is based entirely on personal preference. In terms of testing driver's skills, IRC is as good as any other series, and unless you have ground for comparison (which you don't) you are just talking.

But is it?

WRC: next year, 12 events
IRC: 10 events?

WRC events are longer, aren't they? So more kms in WRC than IRC to provide a challenge.

Also, there are better drivers in the WRC to compete against. OK, the Rautenbachs and Wormbalds of the world aren't the best drivers, but you can't say that Sebastien and Mikko aren't good drivers simply because they're not in the IRC.

So, longer events against better drivers... I think that the WRC would be better at testing driver's skills.
jonkka
4th November 2008, 06:25
You just proved yourself wrong by your own criteria, because your judgment is based entirely on personal preference. In terms of testing driver's skills, IRC is as good as any other series, and unless you have ground for comparison (which you don't) you are just talking.

True - hence I keep my silence.
Sulland
5th November 2008, 01:53
What is the price for a top M2 seat and a top IRC seat ?

And where can you get best value for money ?
AndyRAC
5th November 2008, 08:10
Look, the Blue Riband of Rallying is still the WRC.
However, it is at an all time low, whereas the IRC is making progress with LiveTV of proper stages.
Personally I would say that M2 v IRC, probably IRC.
Sulland
5th November 2008, 09:46
What is the price for a top M2 seat and a top IRC seat ?

And where can you get best value for money ?

I think a Stobart seat is costing aprox 2.5 mill Euro a year. And that is without any testing.

How much is a Kronos or Abarth seat, or at any other top team in IRC ?
Sulland
5th November 2008, 10:28
I think a Stobart seat is costing aprox 2.5 mill Euro a year. And that is without any testing.

How much is a Kronos or Abarth seat, or at any other top team in IRC ?

Aprox 3 mil Euro for a C4 in Citroen Sport for Mikkelsen !
RS
6th November 2008, 21:16
Look, the Blue Riband of Rallying is still the WRC.
However, it is at an all time low, whereas the IRC is making progress with LiveTV of proper stages.
Personally I would say that M2 v IRC, probably IRC.

I'd agree with that. WRC certainly has 'the name' and at the top the best drivers. To win in WRC is probably harder, but to score points in IRC seems harder than WRC.

Certainly IRC 2008 was better than 2007, and 2009 should be better still. I actually think WRC 2009 might be better than WRC 2008 too (less events, possibly more M2 teams) but we will see.
Livewireshock
7th November 2008, 00:00
The success of either series will by default make it harder to win and get good results. If there are more M2 drivers in the WRC it will be harder to shine above the rest. Likewise, if a flurry of extra drivers enter the IRC, it is harder to be certain of good results.

Either way, it is encouraging that larger fields are likely for '09 in both series at this stage despite the financial doom and gloom around the world.
Sulland
8th November 2008, 08:05
None of the great minds here that knows anything of the cost of a IRC season ?
Sulland
18th February 2009, 15:38
Still no info on a season in a IRC team ?

The economic crisis bring up this question once again !

It might be an option for more and more of the M2 or private drivers !!
Barreis
18th February 2009, 18:53
This is totally sick..
PLuto
18th February 2009, 19:01
Whole european season in IRC (8 events) with testing in the best teams is around 500 000 Euro.
jonas_mcrae
18th February 2009, 19:54
Whole european season in IRC (8 events) with testing in the best teams is around 500 000 Euro.

really? well I think I know what I will do if I win the lottery!
PLuto
18th February 2009, 19:57
really? well I think I know what I will do if I win the lottery!

If you will win the lottery, you should build a rally team and give seats to that car to good drivers for free ;)
urabus-denoS2000
18th February 2009, 20:02
If you will win the lottery, you should build a rally team and give seats to that car to good drivers for free ;)

Like me :D
jonas_mcrae
18th February 2009, 20:43
If you will win the lottery, you should build a rally team and give seats to that car to good drivers for free ;)

yeah perhaps... but naaa I would take one seat and give the other to garde or PG! hahaha
Kaps
18th February 2009, 22:18
So, Munchi's are not M2 any more?

Only Stobart & Citroen junior Team are M2 teams this season?
Is there a required number of starts for them?
pantealex
19th February 2009, 13:05
Is there a required number of starts for them?
M2 required 8 starts of 12 races, so Munchis is not out yet...
JFL
19th February 2009, 13:22
Adapta? ;)
Kaps
19th February 2009, 16:32
What about them?
Are they privateers or M2?

I think they should register before the start of the season and nominate their starts, if they are an M2.
jonkka
19th February 2009, 16:41
What about them?
Are they privateers or M2?

I think they should register before the start of the season and nominate their starts, if they are an M2.

I think MT (it's no longer M2) have still time to register:

7.2.4 A Manufacturer Team wishing to score points in the Championship may register at any time before the closing of entries of the 4th event of the World Rally Championship,

Entries close 24th of Feb for Portugal... Five days left...
Kaps
19th February 2009, 18:45
Hmm, I didn't know that, no more M1 or M2 you say?

Is that from 2009, or before?
jonkka
19th February 2009, 19:38
Hmm, I didn't know that, no more M1 or M2 you say?

It's just semantical change. M1 is Manufacturer, M2 is Manufacturer Team.
Barreis
20th February 2009, 10:35
Something is telling me that is better to give all that millions for food for all the hungry children than to spend it for a things like this..
bluuford
20th February 2009, 11:18
Something is telling me that is better to give all that millions for food for all the hungry children than to spend it for a things like this..

Then you are making the problem bigger. Then they have more free time, when they have more free time, then there will be more kids again and again. If you but that money on education how to produce and collect food, then I am agree :-)