Hands up who REALLY wait for year 2010

[A.F.F.]

:wave:

If not for supposely more manufacturers but at least some different manufacturers.

Nothing indicates that Loeb would be any weaker but, along more available seats, there just might come some new talents who hopefully surprises us all with speed or flamboyant style.

Frankly any change help...

How WRC is right now, it's just too ... I dunno... boring as hell. And as Gods and Gandalf are my witnesses, I never thought I'd blame WRC that. :mark:

[Daniel]

*Puts hand up*

[WRC1]

yes!! :wave:

here as well :wave: :wave: :wave:

it can only get better from this point where we are now....

[Daniel]

Man i'm at the Cambrian rally right now. The escorts are great to watch purely because the Escorts handle like crap compared to modern cars. Ditto the Talbot sunbeam that nearly spun twice just then. The cars are just too smart for their own good.

[Woodeye]

Any change is welcome now. Rally on it's current form is just sad and waiting for death.

My only fear is that the new cars will boring to watch like group N at the moment. And I mean boring to watch live, not following the splits from web.

[Brother John]

Hands Up for me! :up:
I hope really that we see some changes in 2010, and also hope the world economy and the F.I.A. will not spoil or will destroy the rallysport! :s mokin:

[RS]

How WRC is right now, it's just too ... I dunno... boring as hell. And as Gods and Gandalf are my witnesses, I never thought I'd blame WRC that. :mark:

As I said in the Japan thread:

It's quite amusing watching these boards and seeing how quickly the thread for each WRC event can turn into a "What a farce/WRC hits a new low" discussion.

This has been a really terrible year for WRC. Bad a entry lists, bad rules, big time gaps in the results, stupid tactics and team orders..

I am really beginning to think like Daniel. All the manufacturers should just quit, give the FIA a big kick up the arse and start again.

I can't see any sense in Ford continuing whilst there is no stability in the rules, no promoter till 2010...

There does seem to be the suggestion that some more M2 teams might join the 'party' next year but I'll believe it when I see it.

We shouldn't get too excited about 2010 yet as the new rules are still not confirmed but it should improve things if they make significant changes. Incidentally, I saw a quote from Malcolm Wilson the other day, talking crap yet again saying how the rules we have now are perfect because there are lots of people thinking of running M2 teams next year.

[badterminal]

I'll put my hand up.

My only hope is that they ditch the 4WD, and do something with 2WD as most only make 2WD. Should bring back the fun!!

[ste898]

The M2 teams are a total waste of time as they are based on who has the most money and not with talent........

[Daniel]

Ste is completely right. M2 is not the future, it's just a way to fill the entry lists with 5th rate drivers.

[Sulland]

I hope FIA are able to decide soon on a format that will attract more manufacturers to want to spend the money, and see the payback that rally will hopefully give them.

In my opinion the format needs to be so simple that the cars can be bought from any team that want to, and be able to win with it !!

Much like the current S2000 class. But it has to be done something to prevent galloping cost to buy and maintain, and it has to be so analogue that smaller teams can run them over time.

FIA also need to care enough about Rally to get a media deal, and sponsors that dear to use the newest technology to show new potential fans what rally is. The television shows has not changed or improved in the last 3 years, and they have a splendid tool like Virtual Spectator without barely using it !

FIA has one shot at getting this right, if not IRC will take over. They have used two seasons to get very close to where WRC is today, the exitement fighting for the top spot seen from a petrolhead is much more fun, than seeing a 300++ bhp, 600 nm WRC car driven by the best drivers, when there is really only 6 people that can win, usually fewer. And we also have the point that teams are slowing the best drivers driving the same carmake too let their number 1 to win.
That is not the world rally championship we deserve !!

FIA, WAKE UP AND DO SOMETHING !!!

[iJones]

I don't. Loeb will take his sixth and Subarus will be crap as before. Ford = tactics and the rest... Well... Nothing to write home about.
If Latvala manages to stay on the road it might get interesting. Sorry if I sound pessimistic but that's how I feel.

[WRCfan]

And then we get to hear that cabbaged woman commentator repeat the phrase "now back with world champion Sebastien Loeb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (insert the emoticon for **itting in pants from excitement) at least 45 times per 30 minute highlight show, as well as for the entire season of 2009.

THAT ALONE is enough to make people follow ride-on lawnmower racing and ditch WRC...

[AndyRAC]

Not looking good is it?
Sorry, but M2 is not the way to go, somebody earlier said it's all about who has the £$£$£$.
Can it get any worse? I really hope not, but I'm not hopeful. THe whole sport needs a dramatic shake up.
Cars, Rallies, regs, tyre rules, promotion - the list is almost endless, and where to start.
Personally, start with the cars - if they are cheap and simple, but Spectacular - maybe more Manufacturers will join. Limit the season to 12 Rallies, but make each one different - 2,3,4,5 days all varying - some 200 miles, some 300+.
If the events are all different and exciting with different cars, drivers challenging the media exposure will surely follow. At the moment, I don't
care who the Promoter is - even Bernie would have a job Promoting this rabble - the WRC is a total snoozefest that hardly deserves media interest, and I didn't think I'd ever say that.
It needs someone slightly removed from the sport to see the problems, because it seems as though the people in it can't see how bad it really is.

[J4MIE]

Yes I also cannot wait for 2010 :bounce:

[RS]

And then we get to hear that cabbaged woman commentator repeat the phrase "now back with world champion Sebastien Loeb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (insert the emoticon for **itting in pants from excitement) at least 45 times per 30 minute highlight show, as well as for the entire season of 2009.

THAT ALONE is enough to make people follow ride-on lawnmower racing and ditch WRC...


Lol, yes, the WRC programming is really quite dreadful. I watched the Japan leg one report. Don't know if it was the stages, the tv production, the cars or a combination of all three but it was mind numbingly boring.

Also, does anyone else find their fascination with showing crashes, especially ones in which drivers or codrivers have been injured just a little bit sick?

[Miika]

Hear hear. I´ve lost my interest to the current wrc "product" so whatever the new cars and rules might be, it can only get better from this. I hope.

[Viking]

I think the ones here hailing FIA 2010 rules will be the ones criticising them in 2010.
Why so few manufactures, boring Peugeot winning everything, I remember the days we had Ford, Subaru, Citroen and Suzuki, why is Conrad running in the 3`rd Pug and not the backyard rally winning kid from my home town and so on and on and….

[jparker]

My only fear is that the new cars will boring to watch like group N at the moment. And I mean boring to watch live, not following the splits from web.

Personally I don't care, only few nations have the pleasure to enjoy the sport live, so I don't give a s***t how they look live, I'll be following the splits anyway.

One more hand up.

[jonkka]

Also, does anyone else find their fascination with showing crashes, especially ones in which drivers or codrivers have been injured just a little bit sick?

I do.

Of course, it is perfectly OK to show the crash and report the relevant facts but to revel on it or spend major part of the show on it is not good.

[Woodeye]

Personally I don't care, only few nations have the pleasure to enjoy the sport live, so I don't give a s***t how they look live, I'll be following the splits anyway.

One more hand up.

Eh..? So why don't you follow swimming then for example. They have splits as well.

The whole exitement of rallying is the cars, the speed, the sounds the whole package. After seeing WRC cars live on stages, following the splits is nothing compared to that.

If you compare WRC and a Group N car, the difference is about a lightyear.

[jparker]

Eh..? So why don't you follow swimming then for example. They have splits as well.

The whole exitement of rallying is the cars, the speed, the sounds the whole package. After seeing WRC cars live on stages, following the splits is nothing compared to that.

If you compare WRC and a Group N car, the difference is about a lightyear.
If I could, I would, WRC that is.
It's quite remarkable how one can intentionally misinterpret someones post, well done.

[Roy]

I am not looking forward to next years like i did another years.
There is a lack of competition. Bad Subaru, one robot Loeb. No Ford?
M2 is a nice solution. We saw Aava, Mikkelsen, and Latvala as privateers/M2 teams. These guys are the future. But we also saw Rautenbach and Wilson who isn't.

[RS]

There are rumours of a lot more M2 teams/drivers next year.

The calendar looks a bit crappy for next year though. Who here can honestly remember all 12 events without looking it up?

AFF, did you mean 2009 or 2010, when we should have new rules?

[shaitan]

i think seb to f1 is great,both f1 and rally.

so miko can destroy everyone else and seb destroy by f1 boys-_-

just for fan to watch....

[Donney]

Hand up for anything better than this season, which is not very difficult.

[A.F.F.]

AFF, did you mean 2009 or 2010, when we should have new rules?

2010.

[pino]

Hand up for anything better than this season, which is not very difficult.

LOL, me :wave:

[MJW]

Sorry to be serious but the wrc has had 2 lucky escapes this year, with Galli and Pivato. In slightly different circumstances we could have been back in 1986. The FIA (and I am not normally a fan) is doing great work on safety with the closed car safety group. The new seats etc should help, but this proves we can not sit back and do nothing.
Its worth a look at the FIA institute site
http://www.fiainstitute.com/

[Donney]

Yeah, that and changing the format so the rallyes are not a series of 8 rallysprints per day.

[AndyRAC]

Yeah, that and changing the format so the rallyes are not a series of 8 rallysprints per day.

Yes, bring back the endurance element of the sport. And simplify the cars!! It's a no-brainer.

[Motorsportfun]

Ste is completely right. M2 is not the future, it's just a way to fill the entry lists with 5th rate drivers.

I think M2 is a good way to search new good drivers. Saw people like Aava, Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Latvala, etc.

Could be very interesting also a "rally-GP2", in order to find new good drivers, putting down actual JWRC championship, which penalised good drivers for budget reasons (I'm thinking to Alessandro Bettega, no one is as good as him in an R3-Clio, he pay just a half-second/km against works S1600). The Pirelli Star Drivers, meanwhile, is a first good step.

[RS]

I think M2 is a good way to search new good drivers. Saw people like Aava, Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Latvala, etc.


But of those you mention, only Latvala has driven in M2.

[Motorsportfun]

But of those you mention, only Latvala has driven in M2.

Aava was just on the paper a Privateer, as his car is run by PH Sport(M2 in 2009), we can say the same for Ostberg (M2 in 2009).

[gloomyDAY]

2010 isn't going to be that much better.

When are teams going to wake up and give the middle finger to Max?
The FIA has been atrocious at giving rallying proper care & attention.
Our sport is withering away into nothing.....

[Miika]

Well I have my hand up for 2010, giving the middle finger that is. Same old same old, despite ditching the rotation system.

[AndyRAC]

Perhaps they can organise a breakaway series......

[jiipee64]

Is FIA really loosing all their marbles... and diamonds in the same bag
F1 seems to be history...
Rallying is in a downward spiral...

If that would be an ordinary company the CO would have a bootmark in the tender area... (long time ago)

(damn these politics an politicians)

Negotiation skills seems to been forgotten...

How much power the FIA really have over car manufacturers??

Rally teams (car manufacturers) should together make desicions and leave the FIA in the cabinets with tea and bisquits!

This would be a real chance to redesing motorsport governing.

BMW, Toyota, Mercedes, Subaru, Fiat, Citroen, Ford, Renault, Peugeot, Skoda, Proton, VW and maybe others too just negotiate with each others not with FIA????
We might get much better results???

[RS]

Yup, I see the FIA have managed to balls up F1 in the same way they have with rallying.

Just a gentle reminder that IRC Ypres is on this weekend, 6 drivers within 0.2s on the 5km shakedown :) Live TV on Eurosport this evening and tomorrow.

[Wim_Impreza]

I don't think 2010 would be better than this year. There will be again the same bad entry lists, stupid rules and only Ford and Citroën that can be on the podium.

Look at the ERC and IRC. In almost every rally a nice battle for the lead, in the different classes and the time gaps are much smaller and - important - no SupeRally in the final standings of a rally. You can looking sometimes cars in the dark, like as example IRC Sanremo.

I don't follow WRC anymore, only looking at the final standings. For me, the Czech International Championship is very interesting: huge battles between Kresta and Pech jun., night stages :) , always a battle for position in the standings.

[shurik]

I really hope that rally manufacturers will send their regards to the old sod Max and form something different apart from FIA, like FOTA did.. Something like group B series I wish

[MJW]

I really hope that rally manufacturers will send their regards to the old sod Max and form something different apart from FIA, like FOTA did.. Something like group B series I wish
Sad thing is there are only 2 manufactureres.............
Despite all this talk of new dawn in 2011, with 20 best events fighting for a place on a 14 round calendar, with only selected rotation, e.g. Sweden / Norway, Australia /NZ there is no commitment to join. Meanwhile IRC has its manufacturers and as far as I know they are happy with their series.
WRC has lived on smoke and mirrors for a long time now, in the current financial / economic climate waiting to relaunch in 2011 could be what tips the balance to IRC's favour.
Where will the current absent drivers do in 2010, PG, Galli, Garde, Atko, etc. etc, and even Petter, continue paying your sponsors money or find a paid drive in a manufacturer supported series.
The downturn in interest of 4 manufacturere cars (and as someone said, 3 allowed to win) syndrome for another year could mean there is nothing to re-launch in 2011.

[Leon]

Is FIA really loosing all their marbles... and diamonds in the same bag
F1 seems to be history...
Rallying is in a downward spiral...

If that would be an ordinary company the CO would have a bootmark in the tender area... (long time ago)

(damn these politics an politicians)

Negotiation skills seems to been forgotten...

How much power the FIA really have over car manufacturers??

Rally teams (car manufacturers) should together make desicions and leave the FIA in the cabinets with tea and bisquits!

This would be a real chance to redesing motorsport governing.

BMW, Toyota, Mercedes, Subaru, Fiat, Citroen, Ford, Renault, Peugeot, Skoda, Proton, VW and maybe others too just negotiate with each others not with FIA????
We might get much better results???

this is a dream situation

What makes you think that a manufacturers - made championship will work. They are competing each other they have their self interest e.t.c. plus they could pull out whenever they see fit especially if they are not winning or sales are down. I think FIA is banking on that fact for a long time now. Did you ever heard of "divide and conquer"

[Karukera]

Hands up to WRC, whatever the millesime is, since i was a (very) little kid back in the (very) late 70's to now despite the (very) serious turbulences behind, current or ahead.

[N.O.T]

if that stupid circus called F1 goes to hell where it should be, maybe FIA puts all of its effords to the WRC ( i don't know if thats a good thing though) and maybe we have some good results

To answer the threads question...i cannot see why 2010 is going to be any different so..... no....

[koko0703]

I want to believe 2010 cannot be worse than this season. I really think this year's title isn't really worth to be called "world champion". Loeb may win it regardless of who's running, but he needs competition.... Where are Atkison, Duval, Garde, Galli, Meeke, PG to just name a few?

[tmx]

I'm not 100% on Loeb winning this year again. Hirvonen is only 7 points behind and there is only one tarmac rally which he coule be capable of taking 2nd. If he win Poland and Finland, then there is a chance.

I'm not really looking forward as much as I am this year since there will be 2 teams again my guess. I am should have been following the IRC a little bit more, but if some mroe drivers that I like are driving in IRC then I would definitely follow it more, such as a few mentioned above.

[shurik]

if that stupid circus called F1 goes to hell where it should be, maybe FIA puts all of its effords to the WRC ( i don't know if thats a good thing though) and maybe we have some good results

To answer the threads question...i cannot see why 2010 is going to be any different so..... no....
I'm kinda aware of that.. Max may come up with racing diesel 1.2 turbo or toyota prius, special stages made of roundabouts, whatever.
He reminds me of Moscow major - same age, same mental disease, projects like build roads on top of buildings et cetera :rolleyes:

[Wim_Impreza]

I want to believe 2010 cannot be worse than this season. I really think this year's title isn't really worth to be called "world champion". Loeb may win it regardless of who's running, but he needs competition.... Where are Atkison, Duval, Garde, Galli, Meeke, PG to just name a few?

Duval crashed in the first corner in SS1 in Belgium Ypres Westhoek Rally today. Garde drives in Italy this weekend and Meeke drives a good programm in IRC.

Atkinson, Galli and PG don't have enough money to drive a good programm.

[OldF]

I don’t think 2010 will be so remarkable but at least let’s hope that 2011 will give some more excitement.

What would be better than two good championships, WRC and IRC, both giving a good show with different kinds of cars. There will always be good drivers that will be left out of a seat in WRC and for those, a good championship like IRC, will give their fans a chance to see them in action and visibility for their sponsors.

[Rallyper]

Duval crashed in the first corner in SS1 in Belgium Ypres Westhoek Rally today. Garde drives in Italy this weekend and Meeke drives a good programm in IRC.

Atkinson, Galli and PG don't have enough money to drive a good programm.

Here´s the crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInzHny-Ts4
:eek:

And from an other angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrRZXI1uB8

[RS]

Here´s the crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInzHny-Ts4
:eek:

And from an other angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrRZXI1uB8

Shame, could have been a 4 way fight in Ypres..

I think even JML hasn't managed a first corner crash yet? Seem to remember Marcus did it on Deutschland in the whale though.

Duval didn't do his reputation any good there, hope he gets some more IRC rounds later on to repair that.

[DonJippo]

Here´s the crash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jInzHny-Ts4
:eek:

And from an other angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNrRZXI1uB8

A bit OT but seriously how stupid one can be? To break a car when getting back on road... :rolleyes:

[bowler]

watch the cows in the second video :-)

[tmx]

I missed that the first time.

[janvanvurpa]

watch the cows in the second video :-)

The cows were watching the car, the bull was watching the cows.

(Unless you're suggesting those Vlaamse Cows were into some girl on girl action, in with case Shame on you!)( Were it Wallon cows, well say NO MORE!! SAY NO MORE!)

[janvanvurpa]

I really hope that rally manufacturers will send their regards to the old sod Max and form something different apart from FIA, like FOTA did.. Something like group B series I wish

I think the actual problem today is the cars are vert much like GpB cars in that every single part except the basic block and head casting are special, and even the bodyshells are hand built.
They are therefor so specialised and expensive that only two teams bother for whatever reason, I sure don't know.

If anything I would want to see Group A at the level of 1990-1992 when the manufacturers had to make 5000 of the base model to qualify for Group A and GpN homologation for International events.
5000 3 door Cosworths
5000 4 door 2wd Sapphire Cossies
5000 4 door Sapphire Cosworth
then it was reduced to 2500 units so for 93
2500 Escort Cosworths

5000 Lancia Delta 8v
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale 16v

5000 Toyota ST165s
5000 Toyota ST185s
5000 Toyota ST205s

etc, etc
So many even a guy lke me can afford a good spec Cossie.

But the Manufacturers themselves lobbied, demanded to have these handbuilt specials so now a "World Rally Car" is chosen from any car of certain min and max dimesnsions, and a series of 25,000 road cars and they can make what 25 kits.

Further when the turbo inlet restricors were 40mm for GpA and 38mm for GpN, the GpN cars were a lot close and higher in Overall Results than now.

So I say 40mm restrictor BUT series production gearbox---pretty soon the MFGs would make some good gearboxes.

This way there would be far less gap between a local good driver and a factory level car, more chance some guy could maybe showcase his speed now and then.

Now the cars are so good, so easy to drive even very mediocre drivers can drive like Wilson and make top 10 stage times.
Pitiful.
GroupA.1
давай! Let's do it!

[AndyRAC]

I think the actual problem today is the cars are vert much like GpB cars in that every single part except the basic block and head casting are special, and even the bodyshells are hand built.
They are therefor so specialised and expensive that only two teams bother for whatever reason, I sure don't know.

If anything I would want to see Group A at the level of 1990-1992 when the manufacturers had to make 5000 of the base model to qualify for Group A and GpN homologation for International events.
5000 3 door Cosworths
5000 4 door 2wd Sapphire Cossies
5000 4 door Sapphire Cosworth
then it was reduced to 2500 units so for 93
2500 Escort Cosworths

5000 Lancia Delta 8v
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale 16v

5000 Toyota ST165s
5000 Toyota ST185s
5000 Toyota ST205s

etc, etc
So many even a guy lke me can afford a good spec Cossie.

But the Manufacturers themselves lobbied, demanded to have these handbuilt specials so now a "World Rally Car" is chosen from any car of certain min and max dimesnsions, and a series of 25,000 road cars and they can make what 25 kits.

Further when the turbo inlet restricors were 40mm for GpA and 38mm for GpN, the GpN cars were a lot close and higher in Overall Results than now.

So I say 40mm restrictor BUT series production gearbox---pretty soon the MFGs would make some good gearboxes.

This way there would be far less gap between a local good driver and a factory level car, more chance some guy could maybe showcase his speed now and then.

Now the cars are so good, so easy to drive even very mediocre drivers can drive like Wilson and make top 10 stage times.
Pitiful.
GroupA.1
давай! Let's do it!

Simple. It won't happen! It costs too much to build a 'Homologation Special' - or so the Manufacturers claim. But I do agree with you - I would like to see a return to Group A regs.

[janvanvurpa]

Simple. It won't happen! It costs too much to build a 'Homologation Special' - or so the Manufacturers claim. But I do agree with you - I would like to see a return to Group A regs.

It does seem two manufacturers are making Group N4 homologation specials, and looking at their gearbox ratios and their brakes compared to say GPN Escort Cossies and Lancias, they now sell much nice things and Mistubishi and Subaru manage to do it and survive.

[OldF]

I think the actual problem today is the cars are vert much like GpB cars in that every single part except the basic block and head casting are special, and even the bodyshells are hand built.
They are therefor so specialised and expensive that only two teams bother for whatever reason, I sure don't know.

If anything I would want to see Group A at the level of 1990-1992 when the manufacturers had to make 5000 of the base model to qualify for Group A and GpN homologation for International events.
5000 3 door Cosworths
5000 4 door 2wd Sapphire Cossies
5000 4 door Sapphire Cosworth
then it was reduced to 2500 units so for 93
2500 Escort Cosworths

5000 Lancia Delta 8v
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale
5000 Lancia Delta Intergrale 16v

5000 Toyota ST165s
5000 Toyota ST185s
5000 Toyota ST205s

etc, etc
So many even a guy lke me can afford a good spec Cossie.

But the Manufacturers themselves lobbied, demanded to have these handbuilt specials so now a "World Rally Car" is chosen from any car of certain min and max dimesnsions, and a series of 25,000 road cars and they can make what 25 kits.

Further when the turbo inlet restricors were 40mm for GpA and 38mm for GpN, the GpN cars were a lot close and higher in Overall Results than now.

So I say 40mm restrictor BUT series production gearbox---pretty soon the MFGs would make some good gearboxes.

This way there would be far less gap between a local good driver and a factory level car, more chance some guy could maybe showcase his speed now and then.

Now the cars are so good, so easy to drive even very mediocre drivers can drive like Wilson and make top 10 stage times.
Pitiful.
GroupA.1
давай! Let's do it!

On the old M-Sport’s web site there was a “story” about the car. If I remember right the car consisted of about 2500 parts of which about 500 was from the original car but modified and only 40-50 parts unmodified. This would mean that only 2% of the parts are original. S2000 are built by the same philosophy but in a more cost effective way. I think a group A car today wouldn’t be so cheap either. But without WRC regulations I believe that we wouldn’t have seen makes like Peugeot, Citroen, Skoda etc. in world rallying.

A funny thing is that the only two manufacturers, Mitsubishi and Subaru, that have cars suitable for group A, their cars are not valid for group A.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/CFEBDCF7D64751AFC12575A800488910/$FILE/ToutesVoitures_2009.pdf

pages 34, 35. Subaru 2004, 2005 and 2007, homologation valid only for group N
pages 39,40 Mitsubishi Evo 8MR, Evo9 and Evo10, homologation valid only for group N

[AndyRAC]

if that stupid circus called F1 goes to hell where it should be, maybe FIA puts all of its effords to the WRC ( i don't know if thats a good thing though) and maybe we have some good results

To answer the threads question...i cannot see why 2010 is going to be any different so..... no....

Today sees a meeting of the WMSC - it wa originally intended to ratify the regs/rules for WRC 2010 - However, that is unlikely to happen - war has broken out in the 'Blue Riband' of Motorsport - F1. So we'll have to wait even longer.

[teufel]

Today sees a meeting of the WMSC - it wa originally intended to ratify the regs/rules for WRC 2010 - However, that is unlikely to happen - war has broken out in the 'Blue Riband' of Motorsport - F1. So we'll have to wait even longer.

At least MadMax has to leave! :up:

[OldF]

Today sees a meeting of the WMSC - it wa originally intended to ratify the regs/rules for WRC 2010 - However, that is unlikely to happen - war has broken out in the 'Blue Riband' of Motorsport - F1. So we'll have to wait even longer.

It will be 1.6T from 2011.

WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP

The date for introduction of the 1600cc turbo engine for the WRC car has been brought forward to 2011 to bring it in line with the engine used in the cars on sale to the public.

Event organisers will be given flexibility to evolve the character of their events to create a unique flavour. Rallies may be run over two, three or four days, but must finish on a Saturday or Sunday. To increase the spectacle, there will be freedom to mix asphalt and gravel surfaces either within a stage or within the itinerary of a day.

A ‘WRC Cup’ for Super 2000 cars will be introduced for 2010. Teams must register and contest at least seven nominated rounds, including at least one outside Europe. Conditions for registration will be finalised in due course.


2010 FIA World Rally Championship Calendar

14 Feb Sweden
07 Mar Mexico
04 Apr Jordan
18 Apr Turkey
09 May New Zealand
30 May Portugal
11 July Bulgaria*
01 Aug Finland
22 Aug Germany
12 Sept Japan
03 Oct France
24 Oct Spain
14 Nov Great Britain

*Subject to the 2009 Observer’s Report

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2009/Pages/wmsc_240609.aspx

[MJW]

I think the S2000 WR Cup might be the positive to come out of this. It probably wont attract Peugeot whilst Citroen is still there, but it offers a 'way in' to Proton, Abarth, Toyota? etc. It depends who in manufacturer terms is tempted by 1.6T in 2011, if the rest of the car is S2000 based, transmission etc.etc. it offers a way of getting WRC practice in readiness for 2011 whilst engine development is underway. Alternatively it could lead to manufactureres saying 'lets stick with IRC and current car specifications'. If thats the case I hope that they will start to employ some drivers currently without a paid drive. Whilst my preference is for a 1.6T World Rally Championship, my main motivator is to get good competition between several manufactureres and top drivers, not the Ford seats for rent syndrome we have at present.

[JAM]

S2000 WR Cup IMO is the new name of PWRC....

Or do we have PWRC and a S2000 WR Cup? Nonsense.... this is starting to be lika track racing, an excessive number of competitions that reduce the interest and visibility of each others.

[koko0703]

S2000 WR Cup IMO is the new name of PWRC...

Exactly my thought.... S2000 Cup may attract new manufacturers but may shut the door completely for Subaru and Mitsubishi without PWRC.

[JAM]

Exactly my thought.... S2000 Cup may attract new manufacturers but may shut the door completely for Subaru and Mitsubishi without PWRC.

...or could admit Subarus and Mitsubishis as PWRC is admitting S2000.

But another silly thing is the fact that the S2000 will no longer be the main cars on WRC! Some months ago FIA decided that in 2011 S2000 would be main cars WRChampionship, and now in 2011 the WRC 1.6T wil be the main cars... these guys are jocking with everybody.

[DonJippo]

But another silly thing is the fact that the S2000 will no longer be the main cars on WRC! Some months ago FIA decided that in 2011 S2000 would be main cars WRChampionship, and now in 2011 the WRC 1.6T wil be the main cars... these guys are jocking with everybody.

This decision about 1.6T was made together with manufactures, six of them, not only by FIA.

[JAM]

This decision about 1.6T was made together with manufactures, six of them, not only by FIA.

But this is still a silly decision. In 2008 the future would be S2000+, in the beggining of this year the future would be S2000 until 2013 with the agrement of some manufacturers, now the future will be 1.6T in 2011 again with the agreement of some manufacturers.

Let's see, in about a year the future changed 2 times. These are not silly decisions? IMO these are silly decisions with a lack of good sense, but specially that are not good to the future of WRC.

By the way, wich are the 6 manufacturers that entered the agreement?

[J4MIE]

I'm unsure really but what can we do, we'll see what happens :s

[bluuford]

In my mind, they have moved to the right direction all the time and the current decision is the best possible decision in the current circumstances. Having S2000 car is step forward to built 1.6t car as the basis of the new WRcar is the same except engine. And moving to smaller engine is in good accordance with the car producers. Almost every car manufacturer have road car models with 1.6T engine.

Building new car on S2000 does not give any advantage to the current Citroen vs Ford duo. So, all the manufacturers who plan to start from 2011 are more or less level-playing field. Currently it took years to reach to the Citroen and Ford level.

and finally look at the S2000 championship rules. You have to contest in at least 7 events while 1 of them must be outside Europe. That means, basically we have exactly one year to prepare S2000 car for next year and bit over 1.5 years to build 1.6T engine for that car.

[Finni]

They didin't make any solution to "the year 2010 problem". Why in hell we should watch one more year how only four drivers can challenge for the championship. A the very least Citroen and Ford shoulkd be ordered to do four driver line-up or something. I am sick of watching rallying without Petter and Atkinson in the top-team.

[RS]

It is thought that the 'S2000 World Cup' would replace jWRC and not pWRC.

[koko0703]

This decision about 1.6T was made together with manufactures, six of them, not only by FIA.

Do you know which are the six manufacturers? Citroen, Ford, and? I would assume Suzuki is one of them. I read, in Japanese magazine, that Suzuki has been pushing hard for 1.6L format so they can enter with Swift.

[DonJippo]

More changes to WRC announced today http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=5311&desc=More%20WRC%20rule%20changes%20announced

[MikeD]

Do you know which are the six manufacturers? Citroen, Ford, and?

Since the new engine rules will be the same for WTCC, I expect the 4 other manufacturers to be BMW, SEAT, LADA and Chevrolet.

[Daniel]

More changes to WRC announced today http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=5311&desc=More%20WRC%20rule%20changes%20announced
Seems positive.

[jonkka]

they now sell much nice things and Mistubishi and Subaru manage to do it and survive.

Mitsubishi isn't doing so well financially, being in red well before the financial crisis.

[jonkka]

So I say 40mm restrictor BUT series production gearbox---pretty soon the MFGs would make some good gearboxes.

Pretty soon there would be no manufacturers in WRC at all. It is more cost effective to build 20 hyper-expensive competition vehicles than to design and produce thousands of competition-grade parts for civilian market and make losses with every unit produced - even if you manage to sell those which isn't guaranteed.

[gloomyDAY]

These rules [cold shiver] make sense!


12 - Night stages
"Subject to satisfactory levels of safety, night stages are permitted but should not form the whole itinerary of the day." :cool:

[jonkka]

Night stages are nothing new, happened in Monte 2007 and 2008 and Ireland this year as well. Perhaps they mean that night stages no longer need special dispensation to arrange.

[janvanvurpa]

Pretty soon there would be no manufacturers in WRC at all. It is more cost effective to build 20 hyper-expensive competition vehicles than to design and produce thousands of competition-grade parts for civilian market and make losses with every unit produced - even if you manage to sell those which isn't guaranteed.

The suggestion was originally from one John Taylor at Ford Motorsport in the mid 90s.
He said in advance "to those who say it can't be done I say let them look to the modern Japanese motocycles" for an idea of a strong reliable gearbox which lasts 10s of thousands of km reliably.

Really, I've been machinist for years before I was mechanic/builder guy and now doing lots of machining again.
Gear cutting is NOT expensive especially in huge series.
There is much very cynical pricing on gearsets.