Ra 109

[Knock-on]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71775

After a torrid year for Jens and the team, a method to the madness begins to appear.

Honda have thrown everything at next years car including sabotaging this years season.

With equalisation of engines, the opportunity to be first on the KERS development and Brawns know-how steering the ship, could we see a march up the constructors table from them?

[woody2goody]

I think they will move up the championship, but really no one knows how next season will go. If one team gets it right they could dominate. OR, it could be really close with all the teams having a chance to win. You just never really know.

[Sleeper]

Honda threw most of their resources at next years car possibly as early as March this year, and certainly after the Spanish GP their development dropt off to nearly nothing.

Brawns a smart man, I'd be thouroghly shocked if Honda didnt have a strong year in 09.

[wmcot]

Honda threw most of their resources at next years car possibly as early as March this year, and certainly after the Spanish GP their development dropt off to nearly nothing.

Brawns a smart man, I'd be thouroghly shocked if Honda didnt have a strong year in 09.

If the spec engine rule is pushed through, they may not have much competition!

[Valve Bounce]

Honda threw most of their resources at next years car possibly as early as March this year, and certainly after the Spanish GP their development dropt off to nearly nothing.

Brawns a smart man, I'd be thoroughly shocked if Honda didn't have a strong year in 09.

Well, be prepared for one big shock next year. The only way Honda will have a strong year in 09 is .................
............sorry, I can't think of anything at all. :(

[ShiftingGears]

Well, be prepared for one big shock next year. The only way Honda will have a strong year in 09 is .................
............sorry, I can't think of anything at all. :(

They will be significantly better in '09. Brawn knows his stuff.

[PolePosition_1]

To be honest, I just don't trust Honda to make a good car. Since the BAR days, the only good car they made was in 2004, after that, they've been midfield / medicore cars.

In 2007 they had a crap car, and said they would focus on 2008, and yet they still managed to build a crap car. Who is to say next year willl be any different?

I guess with the regulation changes, we're talking about revolution rather than evolution, which the early start may benefit them more than for the early start on the 2008 car.

But I honestly wouldn't hold my breath. Whilst I understand Ross Brawn is technical director, is it the same design team ?

[wedge]

It's clean sheet of paper for everyone so we really won't get any idea until after the first few races of 09

[ioan]

People are talking about Ross Brawn like if he was the God of F1 designs.
Well he isn't, he's got a very analytical brain and will certainly sort out the organization of the team and propose new processes to be implemented in order to make the team go forward.

Honda needs a good design team in order to produce a good F1 car.
Heck I don't even know who is designing their cars since they fired Geof Willis. I heard something about a Japanese chap who previously designed race bikes, but nothing about a good F1 designer.

[gloomyDAY]

Honda has been in disarray since Nick Fry was tagged onto the team, then stupidly firing Geoff Willis. I can understand why David Richards was sacked but Nick was never able to manage an F1 team. The only place Honda had to go with all this chaos was south, but there may be an end in sight.

Brawn has the brawn to turn this team around. Their winter testing (http://www.f1technical.net/news/10913) looks packed and the rule shifts may work in their favor. I'll remain positive and keep my fingers crossed because I'd like to see Bunsen make his way back to the top.

[I am evil Homer]

People are talking about Ross Brawn like if he was the God of F1 designs.
Well he isn't, he's got a very analytical brain and will certainly sort out the organization of the team and propose new processes to be implemented in order to make the team go forward.

Honda needs a good design team in order to produce a good F1 car.
Heck I don't even know who is designing their cars since they fired Geof Willis. I heard something about a Japanese chap who previously designed race bikes, but nothing about a good F1 designer.

Absolutely :up: It's clear the current Honda has some fundamental designs flaws...be it chassis, aero, suspension or a combination of all those. That's not what Ross Brawn works on or has expertise in! He can motivate a team, get people working more effectively better than anyone.

But if it's the same aero, chassis guys etc I can't see where the huge improvements are going to come from. Unless they go on a serious hiring spree in the winter...which is surely too late to build the 109 they seem to be fairly far down the line with already.

[jens]

I personally don't take this "early preparation" argument very seriously. In the past we have seen many times a team starting to prepare for next season early [McLaren for 2004, Ferrari -> 05, Toyota -> 06, and... Renault -> 08 (they were struggling in the beginning)], but fail miserably. More likely it's a consolation method to sponsors/fans and others a'la "we suck at the moment, but you see, we already prepare for 2009, so it's gonna be fine!"

Secondly, I personally don't believe that in current F1 one man can singlehandedly turn a team around. In order to succeed every department in an F1 team must be at the top level. I still see some weaknesses in Honda's design team - most notably Nakamoto has managed to keep his position as a chief designer somehow, although after he replaced Willis, the team dropped backwards rapidly. And of course Fry - how this guy never gets sacked, I'll never know.

But the myth about "one man's deeds" is quite famous and I think this is why teams like Red Bull (Newey) and Honda (Brawn) constantly remain overrated, while a team like BMW (no star designers, or something like that) and probably also Toyota always remain underrated. Fans like simple explanations (turnaround managed by a superman is simpler to cognize than a brilliant job done by the whole team!) and that's how myths are created.

At best we will see Honda at the midfield - and I emphasise the word "at best". But F1 needs more competitive teams, so it would be nice to see them becoming stronger.

[Hawkmoon]

Brawn will only have success if he has a Rory Byrne to design the car for him. Brawn is a great engineer and manager of people and his effect on Honda will undoubtedly be positive. If the guy, or team of guys, doing the designing aren't up to scratch then ol' Ross won't have much to work with.

Ferrari are winning because the guys who designed the F2008 are, I believe, disciples of the Rory Byrne School of Race Car Design. Plus Byrne is still around chucking his 2 cents worth in every now and then. I would love to have Brawn back at Maranello because he was brilliant at getting the best out of the engineering team and resulting car. But he needed the raw materials to work with and that's what Byrne gave him. As far as I can see, Honda don't have a Rory Byrne hidden away somewhere.

[Roamy]

i am not sure what the new rules are but it will change the baseline for all. Therefore it will be possible to make great gains. But you do need resources. Red Bull is getting there but it has be slow going. the Hondas looked good in a straight line comparison so I suspect the engine is quite good. I expect Brawn will at least get the rabbit half way out of the hat. Probably and hopefully to the dismay of BMW. Also that Renault should also side up the ladder a bit.

[Big Ben]

2 years go people where foreseeing McLaren's collapse because a few important engineers left the team and look how they struggle now. :laugh:

I wonder why people think that one man can turn things around like this. Honda's big chance is the fact that next year's car will be completely different for everybody. Brawn is useless if he has to work with a few hundred morons.

[Valve Bounce]

It's clean sheet of paper for everyone so we really won't get any idea until after the first few races of 09

Or until Kimi comes out from the dunny. :D

[Knock-on]

2 years go people where foreseeing McLaren's collapse because a few important engineers left the team and look how they struggle now. :laugh:

I wonder why people think that one man can turn things around like this. Honda's big chance is the fact that next year's car will be completely different for everybody. Brawn is useless if he has to work with a few hundred morons.

I'm a little confused.

Who has claimed that Brawn is some sort of God that can turn this around single handed?

However, as a manager who can influence direction, I suggest he is one of the best.

[wedge]

I wonder why people think that one man can turn things around like this. Honda's big chance is the fact that next year's car will be completely different for everybody. Brawn is useless if he has to work with a few hundred morons.


However, as a manager who can influence direction, I suggest he is one of the best.

Look what he did with Ferrari.

When Schumi joined by Ferrari the cars were designed John Barnard who was still a highly rated designer because Barnard had the authority to stay in England and design the cars whilst car was built at Maranello and there was a lack of cohesion between the various technical departments and has since been rectified under Brawn.

And the legacy since he has left is that homegrown Italian personnel are now steering the ship, people like Stefano Domenicali now Technical Director and Aldo Costa as Chief Designer

[Valve Bounce]

Look what he did with Ferrari.

When Schumi joined by Ferrari the cars were designed John Barnard who was still a highly rated designer because Barnard had the authority to stay in England and design the cars whilst car was built at Maranello and there was a lack of cohesion between the various technical departments and has since been rectified under Brawn.

And the legacy since he has left is that homegrown Italian personnel are now steering the ship, people like Stefano Domenicali now Technical Director and Aldo Costa as Chief Designer

Yeah!! and Honda has bunsen to motivate them. :D

[jso1985]

if they need to develop a competitive car since March of the previous year and dropping development of the current season car.... what's the point? :s if they really make a good car next years is either two things next... getting a crapppy 2010 car or they lose all initial pace by June with their 2009 car...

either way... it makes the teama whole joke...

[Valve Bounce]

I note that a young Senna (nephew of the great man) will be trialling for test driving for Honda. As much as it would break my heart to see ant miss a race drive, my view is that Honda desperately need ant as their test driver if they want to improve their chances next year. :(