Jordan stirs the pot

[Bagwan]

"People may not like me for saying this,but if Massa tries to take him out as he did in Japan in order to steal the title then Lewis has to be ready for it."

"If he tries that on then Lewis has to turn his wheel into Massa to ensure he does not finish the race either - he has to take his wheel off".


Thems fightin' words , Eddie .
Have you got something brewing in the background ?

It does bring up the question of how big a mess we would have , if we have these two guys on the front row they touch first turn .

Lewis has compared himself to Ayrton , but , in that moment , can he be as ruthless ?

[gloomyDAY]

Lewis has compared himself to Ayrton , but , in that moment , can he be as ruthless ?Sure! I don't see why not.

Highly doubt that scenario will occur, but if Massa tries some fancy crap then expect Hamilton to return the favor or maybe even Kovy to get into the mix of things.

[Rollo]

If Massa tries to take out Lewis then it's game over for Massa.

However,
If Alonso were to take out Lewis (and remember he's already promised to "help" Massa) or Kimi were to do it (acting as a teammate) then Massa could very easily be champion.

I wouldn't be surprised if these sort of discussions haven't already taken place.

[woody2goody]

If they do hit each other I can guess who'll be disqualified from the World Championship. Sorry to be cynical but after this season nothing would surprise me.

[ioan]

EJ needs some attention, it seems.

[markabilly]

Much talk about nuthin, hamster will win the WDC, and Bernie will go to money heaven thinking of the PR, Hamster will talk much trash about his opponents being great but nearly as great as he, while he derams of replacing Senna on the all time great list, and all Britainnia will almost smile (but not too much cause of the danger of rectal prolapse).

RD will smile as well. Beemer will continue to say they will have the same success next year as last year, and Ferrari bunch will find plenty of good excuses for whatever screw up that happens in Brazil in the pitstop that robs FM of whatever chance he had....

It is impossible to stop the MacTrain, unless someone accidentally puts themselves into neutral in the middle of the track, but we know stuff like that can never happen when they are cooler and got bigger balls than anyone...

[Ranger]

EJ needs some attention, it seems.

It has been rumoured that he has been lined up for a position in the BBC commentary team next year. Maybe he's getting a head start.

[Valve Bounce]

It has been rumoured that he has been lined up for a position in the BBC commentary team next year. Maybe he's getting a head start.

Eddie will play his saxophone for the intro!

[wmcot]

Why aren't there any "Lewis can clinch it if he takes Massa out" posts???? That's just as likely.

[Roamy]

what a dumb ass is jordan - hamilton has to worry about rak and the finn WILL take him out at the first opportunity

[TMorel]

As much as I think Kimi is ruthless, I don't think he'd take Lewis out as part of any masterplan.

To Massa's credit, I don't think he'd want to win by Lewis being taken out, even if Lewis gave him the opportunity to tag him one.

Alonso... Y'know, I haven't a clue. He seems almost as much of a flawed genius as Schumi was.

The best bet is still to stick to plan A.... wait for Lewis to throw it away again.

[ArrowsFA1]

It does bring up the question of how big a mess we would have , if we have these two guys on the front row they touch first turn.
Ok, a title is at stake and we know what some drivers can be capable of in those circumstances, but I don't see Hamilton or Massa resorting to those kind of tactics. Of course it could happen, but I don't think it will. I certainly hope it doesn't.

Lewis has compared himself to Ayrton , but , in that moment , can he be as ruthless ?
He's said (http://www.lewishamilton.com/) : "When I was growing up, my favourite driver was Ayrton Senna - in fact, he's still my all-time hero." I think the media have turned that into Lewis comparing himself with Senna.

[ioan]

He's said (http://www.lewishamilton.com/) : "When I was growing up, my favourite driver was Ayrton Senna - in fact, he's still my all-time hero." I think the media have turned that into Lewis comparing himself with Senna.

There were other comments where he was comparing himself with Senna, so this one is nil.

[Knock-on]

There were other comments where he was comparing himself with Senna, so this one is nil.

So says the oracle :laugh:

Care to provide any referenceable quotes from Lewis?

About all this EJ nonsense. It may be blown out of all proportions.

HK and KR are not the sort of drivers to deliberatly take someone out as neither LH or FM are either.

OK, Massa made a bonehead move last race and took Lewis out but I believe this was an accident and nothing malicious on his part (mind you, I've been wrong about people in the past. Look at Charlie Whiting :( ). However, he needs to be doubly sure he doesn't repeat the mistake otherwise questions will be raised.

The only one I have a dubious feeling about is Alonso. If he's behind Lewis then I expect to see a do or die move with very little chance of success that might take them both off. If this is the case, lewis will do well to let him past.

[I am evil Homer]

There were other comments where he was comparing himself with Senna, so this one is nil.

Can I see a link for that interview please as i've searched for months and not found it....almost as if he never said it in the first place. Senna's sister said she "saw a lot of her brother in Lewis" but that's as close as i've found.

[janneppi]

As for the original article, it's amzing how paper pick it up and then turn on the "journo machine"
One Finnish tabloid headline about EJ's comments says "Will Hamilton drive in to Massa on purpose?" :D

[Jag_Warrior]

HK and KR are not the sort of drivers to deliberatly take someone out as neither LH or FM are either.

OK, Massa made a bonehead move last race and took Lewis out but I believe this was an accident and nothing malicious on his part (mind you, I've been wrong about people in the past. Look at Charlie Whiting :( ). However, he needs to be doubly sure he doesn't repeat the mistake otherwise questions will be raised.

The only one I have a dubious feeling about is Alonso. If he's behind Lewis then I expect to see a do or die move with very little chance of success that might take them both off. If this is the case, lewis will do well to let him past.

I agree with all of the above. I don't believe Massa intentionally tried to take Hamilton out in Japan. I'm anything BUT a fan of Massa, but I don't perceive him (Lewis, Heikki or Kimi) to be a dirty driver. I think he'll race Lewis hard, because he HAS to. But I don't think he'll intentionally take him out. Course, as you say, I could be wrong.

But yes, I also believe that the wildcard is Alonso. Like a scorned woman, I believe Alonso would glady throw away his race in order to take Lewis' McClaren out, if the opportunity presented itself. The Ferraris and McLarens will race each other hard. The only one that I expect might race dirty is Fernando Alonso.

[Bagwan]

So , if the "wildcard" , "scorned woman" , "dirty" Alonso does take Lewis out , what does the FIA do ?


This race has to be clean , or we will be arguing for years over the outcome .

[markabilly]

.

He's said (http://www.lewishamilton.com/) : "When I was growing up, my favourite driver was Ayrton Senna - in fact, he's still my all-time hero." I think the media have turned that into Lewis comparing himself with Senna.


Me thought it was when at Japan and he was on the verge of the WDC, after the race in 2007, he said something like he saw visions of Senna as he drove.....

[Jag_Warrior]

So , if the "wildcard" , "scorned woman" , "dirty" Alonso does take Lewis out , what does the FIA do ?


This race has to be clean , or we will be arguing for years over the outcome .

First, hand the big trophy to Felipe Massa, assuming he could score at least 7 points.

And then, depending on how obvious such an incident might be, give Alonso a 10,000 Euro fine or a 25 second time penalty. Given the actions of the stewards this year, they might give him a pat on the back.

I also hope that it's a clean race, and side players don't get involved (stewards or other drivers). But if it gets dirty, my NASCAR fan side comes out: go for the knives and baseball bats. :D

[markabilly]

First, hand the big trophy to Felipe Massa, assuming he could score at least 7 points.

And then, depending on how obvious such an incident might be, give Alonso a 10,000 Euro fine or a 25 second time penalty. Given the actions of the stewards this year, they might give him a pat on the back.

I also hope that it's a clean race, and side players don't get involved (stewards or other drivers). But if it gets dirty, my NASCAR fan side comes out: go for the knives and baseball bats. :D


Perhaps like those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat its mistakes.....remember MS last big time ALLEGED bump with JV?
While a penalty I disagree with, nevertheless, all his points were stripped and he did not finish second in the wdc for that year....

It ought to be simple, if the engine pops or some such, then too bad for Ham....if not and he finishes high enough, that is the way it goes. If he gets stuck behind FA or kimster, and is one place away from a wdc, and just feels compelled to go to the outside, and does not make it...then too bad for Ham.
otherwise, wdc for him......if the other boys are smart and being selfish as usual.....

[Jag_Warrior]

Perhaps like those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are doomed to repeat its mistakes.....remember MS last big time ALLEGED bump with JV?
While a penalty I disagree with, nevertheless, all his points were stripped and he did not finish second in the wdc for that year....

It ought to be simple, if the engine pops or some such, then too bad for Ham....if not and he finishes high enough, that is the way it goes. If he gets stuck behind FA or kimster, and is one place away from a wdc, and just feels compelled to go to the outside, and does not make it...then too bad for Ham.
otherwise, wdc for him......if the other boys are smart and being selfish as usual.....

Alleged bump? That was back when I still cheered for Schumacher, and there was nothing "alleged" about that. That bump was so vivid and hard that it knocked me off the Michael Schumacher bandwagon. :dozey: Besides, there's a whole new group of circus clowns calling the shots now. And why would/should a bad act by Alonso against Hamilton affect Massa with the FIA?

The last two seasons of Formula One have been two of the most exciting in recent memory. I would prefer to see a clean end, with a result that I do not prefer, rather than a dirty end, with a result that I do prefer. I would also prefer to see the stewards bound and gagged prior to the drop of the green... just so.

[ArrowsFA1]

There were other comments where he was comparing himself with Senna, so this one is nil.
It's not nil ioan, it's a direct quote from LH's website. Can you provide a direct quote to back up your claim?

...he said something like he saw visions of Senna as he drove.....
Something like?

[ioan]

Can I see a link for that interview please as i've searched for months and not found it....almost as if he never said it in the first place. Senna's sister said she "saw a lot of her brother in Lewis" but that's as close as i've found.

Try with last season.

[Rollo]

<aside>

Can I see a link for that interview please as i've searched for months and not found it....almost as if he never said it in the first place. Senna's sister said she "saw a lot of her brother in Lewis" but that's as close as i've found.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article361960.ece
“Lewis reminds me of Ayrton in many ways. Ayrton never wanted to be a great man and he didn’t care about money or fame.
He just wanted to win and be the best, the same as Lewis."

It took me longer to write this post than to look through google.
Results 1 - 10 of about 111,000 for "Senna's" "sister" "Lewis". (0.25 seconds) :z
</aside>

[Jag_Warrior]

<aside>


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article361960.ece
“Lewis reminds me of Ayrton in many ways. Ayrton never wanted to be a great man and he didn’t care about money or fame.
He just wanted to win and be the best, the same as Lewis."

It took me longer to write this post than to look through google.
Results 1 - 10 of about 111,000 for "Senna's" "sister" "Lewis". (0.25 seconds) :z
</aside>

I think Homer was referring to Ioan's claim in this post:

Originally Posted by ioan http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=550137#post550137)
There were other comments where he was comparing himself with Senna, so this one is nil.

[ShiftingGears]

Try with last season.

Try put up or shut up.

[gravity]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081002095425.shtml

"I know that I am as good as Ayrton Senna was," the 23-year-old is quoted as saying."

I find no direct source (like the interview?) where he said it though.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Much talk about nuthin, hamster will win the WDC, and Bernie will go to money heaven thinking of the PR, Hamster will talk much trash about his opponents being great but nearly as great as he, while he derams of replacing Senna on the all time great list, and all Britainnia will almost smile (but not too much cause of the danger of rectal prolapse).

RD will smile as well. Beemer will continue to say they will have the same success next year as last year, and Ferrari bunch will find plenty of good excuses for whatever screw up that happens in Brazil in the pitstop that robs FM of whatever chance he had....

It is impossible to stop the MacTrain, unless someone accidentally puts themselves into neutral in the middle of the track, but we know stuff like that can never happen when they are cooler and got bigger balls than anyone...


This is the first time I realize it is Hamilton who people call 'hamster'. I always thought it was Kimi because he does look like one.

[Big Ben]

Instead of looking for quotes where LH said he's the new Senna how about some proofs to back all this statements that Alonso is a 'dirty' driver, a 'flawed' genius and so on? Maybe it's my memory but I don't recall any incident to back this 'objective' british point of view.

[555-04Q2]

EJ is a "DOOS" :down:

[ioan]

Try put up or shut up.

This season after Monaco GP.



That's just because I have been watching it for years and watching the old races and as I said earlier, Ayrton won here so many times and I've always wanted to… if he could win here, that means the best drivers have been able to win here, so I wanted to be able to do the same.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67749

He didn't say he's better but he is comparing himself with AS.
I'm sure there were some occasions last season too, but really don't have time to go through 7 months of comments.

[Dave B]

Ah, so he was hoping to emulate one of Ayron's achievements. That's a long way from equating himself with Senna. Thanks for clarifying.

[Knock-on]

This season after Monaco GP.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67749

He didn't say he's better but he is comparing himself with AS.
I'm sure there were some occasions last season too, but really don't have time to go through 7 months of comments.

ioan, you continually post rubbish claims and refuse to back them up saying "you can't be bothered" or "haven't the time".

May I suggest that before posting your so called "facts", that you source them first and back your posts up.

That way people might take you a bit more seriously.

The quote above does not state that Lewis is comparing himself with Senna but says that the best drivers won at Monaco, such as Ayrton Senna, so he (Lewis) wanted to do the same.

Nowhere does he compare himself to Senna although many others have, notably Senna's sister.

Perhaps it's them you are thinking of?

[Spiderman]

I don't think Alonso will try to decide this world championship in an unfair way. If he can finish the race ahead of Ham, okay good. But he won't end his race with proving a collision. No way! Ha wants to win the race or at least end up on the rostrum. That's what he'll try in brazil!

But I'm not so sure about Massa and Ferrari. Massa showed his intentions in Japan. And he doubt no second that he will do it again. I hope they giv him the black flag if he tries!

[Bagwan]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/081002095425.shtml

"I know that I am as good as Ayrton Senna was," the 23-year-old is quoted as saying."

I find no direct source (like the interview?) where he said it though.


You guys must have missed this post .

Ioan , I'm sorry you're getting the stick for this . It was I who intimated that Lewis had said he was as good as Senna .

[seppefan]

EJ needs some attention, it seems.

with one eye on getting a job on bbc covering F1 next year. I for one really hope he does not. Crook.

[Knock-on]

Instead of looking for quotes where LH said he's the new Senna how about some proofs to back all this statements that Alonso is a 'dirty' driver, a 'flawed' genius and so on? Maybe it's my memory but I don't recall any incident to back this 'objective' british point of view.

I never claimed Alonso is a dirty driver but that if he were behind Lewis, he may very well go for a speculative nose up the inside assuming Lewis would be thinking about finishing the race rather than defending it.

And I think if the roles were reversed, Lewis might do the same :D

[Knock-on]

You guys must have missed this post .

Ioan , I'm sorry you're getting the stick for this . It was I who intimated that Lewis had said he was as good as Senna .

And I think ioan may have intimated it before you ;)

Anyway, this is old history.

What matters more is this world championship and closing it off. Then it's a case of winning another 7 and beating Schumys record.

Anyone doubt he could do it?

:D

[PolePosition_1]

Considering Alonso has clarified his position when he said he'd help Massa, insisting he would not purposely knock Hamilton off, I'm suprised so many are still going on.

Alonso merely said he wouldn't put up a huge fight against Massa if he were behind.

I remember reading after Fuji that Alonso lost out to Kubica in T1 because he didn't want to get in Massa's way.

With McLarens pace, unless something goes wrong, I can't really see Alonso being in the mix with the Ferrari's and McLarens. McLaren have basically got a clean line to the WDC, I think we may be in for an anti-climax, with the McLarens running away at the front.

[ioan]

You guys must have missed this post .

Ioan , I'm sorry you're getting the stick for this . It was I who intimated that Lewis had said he was as good as Senna .

Don't worry mate, don't worry! :)
I'm used to it, around here people don't use their brains only their fingers. ;)

[ioan]

ioan, you continually post rubbish claims and refuse to back them up saying "you can't be bothered" or "haven't the time".

May I suggest that before posting your so called "facts", that you source them first and back your posts up.

That way people might take you a bit more seriously.

The quote above does not state that Lewis is comparing himself with Senna but says that the best drivers won at Monaco, such as Ayrton Senna, so he (Lewis) wanted to do the same.

Nowhere does he compare himself to Senna although many others have, notably Senna's sister.

Perhaps it's them you are thinking of?

Got a problem? Tell it to your parents, this isn't your kindergarten.

[Bagwan]

And I think ioan may have intimated it before you ;)

Anyway, this is old history.

What matters more is this world championship and closing it off. Then it's a case of winning another 7 and beating Schumys record.

Anyone doubt he could do it?

:D

"Lewis has compared himself to Ayrton , but , in that moment , can he be as ruthless ?"

That's from the first post . My post .

And , it's not "old history" , it's a sign of a big head , and , being that it was that big head that got him second last year from the same points lead going in , it's absolutely current .
He's going to Senna's hood now , and he'll hear the homeys cheer when he goes back to the scene of the crime and makes the slightest error .

If we hadn't seen what happened last year , Bernie might have a point in getting rid of the points and going to medals . As it is , it was Lewis , himself , who showed us how a 7 point advantage can be lost in the clutch .

This will be the biggest race of Lewis's life .
Afterwards , he will either be the King or the joker .

[Bagwan]

Considering Alonso has clarified his position when he said he'd help Massa, insisting he would not purposely knock Hamilton off, I'm suprised so many are still going on.

Alonso merely said he wouldn't put up a huge fight against Massa if he were behind.

I remember reading after Fuji that Alonso lost out to Kubica in T1 because he didn't want to get in Massa's way.

With McLarens pace, unless something goes wrong, I can't really see Alonso being in the mix with the Ferrari's and McLarens. McLaren have basically got a clean line to the WDC, I think we may be in for an anti-climax, with the McLarens running away at the front.

Considering Alonso has clarified his position , he's shown he's different to Senna , who I believe , said he would take Prost out to win .

Wouldn't Jordan be right to suggest that if Massa tried it on , and threatened the points leader , that both should be out , with a quick counter-move , because no points for either has Hamilton champ anyway ?
Does that sound a bit like Jerez , 1997 .

[Knock-on]

"Lewis has compared himself to Ayrton , but , in that moment , can he be as ruthless ?"

That's from the first post . My post .

.

Sorry Baggy, it seems you are correct.

You and ioan are in error together. Thanks for pointing it out :D

[Bagwan]

Sorry Baggy, it seems you are correct.

You and ioan are in error together. Thanks for pointing it out :D

And F1-live.com is incorrect , too , then .
Sure .

At least you got the first line right , except for the part about being sorry .

[ioan]

Sorry Baggy, it seems you are correct.

You and ioan are in error together. Thanks for pointing it out :D

I much prefer being in the wrong with Bagwan, than being in the right with you. :p :

[Bagwan]

I much prefer being in the wrong with Bagwan, than being in the right with you. :p :

If the Bagwan jumped off a cliff , would you follow him ?

Of course you would , because you know he'd make sure you had a parachute , too .

The difference here , though , is that you are in the right with Bagwan .

Lewis just might be as good as Ayrton was , and time will tell , but it is not this that annoys myself and others .
To aspire to greatness is fine , but to state greatness is arrogant .

That arrogance is great for Bernie , as it results in many lines of press , but it only seems to hurt Lewis , as fans get tired of the trumpetting .



Hamilton will be either top or toppled , come Sunday .

Whether or not a humbling experience , I don't expect him to be humbled by it .
I expect more arrogance .

[Knock-on]

So, when he says that the greats like Senna won at Monoco and he aspires to that feat, that is arrogance :confused:

I would check that chute Baggy. You may find it's an empty rucksack ;)

[Bagwan]

Are you gonna jump off a cliff if Lewis snatches defeat from the jaws of victory , Knocky , old sport ?

I'll lend you my personal chute .

[Knock-on]

Are you gonna jump off a cliff if Lewis snatches defeat from the jaws of victory , Knocky , old sport ?

I'll lend you my personal chute .

Nope, but I may dissapear into a mug of beer instead of the Champange I have on ice :D

However, if Senna MkII does the bizzo, I will raise a glass across the puddle in the direction of Canada.

Knowing my sense of direction, it might just be Mecca instead but the thoughts there. ;)

[PolePosition_1]

And F1-live.com is incorrect , too , then .
Sure .

At least you got the first line right , except for the part about being sorry .

You seem to be basing this stateness of greatness on the one line F1-Live has quoted him on. Considering they have literally quoted him on just one line, its not really a reliable quote, it could well and I'd say presumably been taken out of context, if it is what he had said and meant, then surely they'd have expanded on this one quote.

Fact that you are seemingly (from what I've read) basing your dislike on him stating his greatness, and your basing this on him comparing himself to Senna, on an incredibly questionable source, I'd have to question your judgement with regards to this.

[Bagwan]

You seem to be basing this stateness of greatness on the one line F1-Live has quoted him on. Considering they have literally quoted him on just one line, its not really a reliable quote, it could well and I'd say presumably been taken out of context, if it is what he had said and meant, then surely they'd have expanded on this one quote.

Fact that you are seemingly (from what I've read) basing your dislike on him stating his greatness, and your basing this on him comparing himself to Senna, on an incredibly questionable source, I'd have to question your judgement with regards to this.

Fair enough . I can accept that .

However , considering that it was that quote that was in doubt , and that specific reference to it was shown , it is certainly relevent .

But , don't get the idea that my dislike of his demeanor is only due to one quote . In my opinion , he'd be better off saying nothing most of the time .

Lennon learned the same lesson when the Beatles were bigger than Jesus .
You don't tug on superman's cape .

[PolePosition_1]

Fair enough . I can accept that .

However , considering that it was that quote that was in doubt , and that specific reference to it was shown , it is certainly relevent .

But , don't get the idea that my dislike of his demeanor is only due to one quote . In my opinion , he'd be better off saying nothing most of the time .

Lennon learned the same lesson when the Beatles were bigger than Jesus .
You don't tug on superman's cape .

Thats cool, I appreciate fact that you appreciate where I'm coming from :)

Without a doubt, its a relevant quote, but I wouldn't really take too much from that quote, simply because its a single line. I've seen that quote on another website, it a slightly different context, just highlighting how unreliable a single line quote can be, and how the media are able to manilpulate it to suit their story.

And its all fair and well to say he should just say nothing. I get slightly annoyed when people say this (not at you in this instance :) ). Its like when people complain of what drivers / F1 bosses say etc. Its their job to talk to the media. They didn't hold a press conference to give their opinion, they're often contractually forced to talk to the media, or would at least be part of their job descriptions. So if the media ask them a question, they've got to answer it, and undoubtably, they're going to be able to twist quotes to suit what they want from the drivers.

The media has gone on about the similarities between Senna and Hamilton, so for sure he will have commented on it.

[ioan]

And its all fair and well to say he should just say nothing. I get slightly annoyed when people say this (not at you in this instance :) ). Its like when people complain of what drivers / F1 bosses say etc. Its their job to talk to the media. They didn't hold a press conference to give their opinion, they're often contractually forced to talk to the media, or would at least be part of their job descriptions. So if the media ask them a question, they've got to answer it, and undoubtably, they're going to be able to twist quotes to suit what they want from the drivers.

IMO, one should open her/his mouth only if she/he has something worth to be shared. This isn't the case with Lewy, in 99% of the cases he talks, cause he only talks about his own magnificence.

I appreciate much more Kimi's way of doing the talking. He only says what he thinks is worth telling, nothing more and nothing less.

[Tazio]

This is a No-holds-barred-steel-cage-match! If the grid aligns properly. (as well as the stars)
The logical thing to do is HK to immediately take out Kimi. To hell with fair play!
When it all shakes down LH gets WDC Ferrari get WCC.
Fred will not be a factor in any serious shenanigans.
He may be prone to let Massa through, and not LH, but that will be the extent of his involvement.
If LH wins the the WDC and Massa doesn't win the race, or WDC because of McLaren "team" tactics,
(depending upon the exact nature of such tactics) expect the crowd to get very ugly!
Do not discount "Home field advantage" in this race!

None of this senario will surprise me!

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken! ;)

[V12]

Blame the British media.

There was an article on the BBC Sport site a few days ago with a headline suggesting that Michael Schumacher believed that Lewis Hamilton would beat his record of seven world titles.

I clicked the link and watched the video of Schumi's interview. What he *actually* said was that he wouldn't be surprised if *someone* - the three names he mentioned were Hamilton, Massa, and Vettel - would maybe beat his record someday even if it seems unattainable at this point, and he compared it to the fact that nobody expected anyone to beat Fangio's five titles when he was starting out in the early 90s.

The point is to take any headline or tag related to Hamilton with a pinch of salt. He's still not my favourite driver but I'm starting to feel sorry for him, as it seems to me that it is the media that are "stirring the pot" and misquoting people to make more money.

And if you're not British just be thankful you don't have to put up with this crap week in, week out...

[F1boat]

For me it is a bit funny that almost everytime when lewis says something stupid, the media is blamed and we are pointed his official site, or the one of mcLaren, to check our facts.
But we love when the media writes something bombastic about FIA or Ferrari, don't we?
Funny.

[Tazio]

For me it is a bit funny that almost everytime when lewis says something stupid, the media is blamed and we are pointed his official site, or the one of mcLaren, to check our facts.
But we love when the media writes something bombastic about FIA or Ferrari, don't we?
Funny.What about LH's comments about Fred's credibility, or ability being diminished because he lost to a rookie teammate? (technically)Was that a media manifestation? Lewis is a gifted driver. He is practically a mortal lock to win his first WDC

But right now the record reads Fred 2 WDC's Kimi 1 WDC, and the rest of the field zero

Furthermore(arguably) Fred retired Mike in a manor of speaking. Can, and will it be said that Lewis retired Fred? Possibly!
But he will not do it with his pie-hole! :dozey:

[PolePosition_1]

IMO, one should open her/his mouth only if she/he has something worth to be shared. This isn't the case with Lewy, in 99% of the cases he talks, cause he only talks about his own magnificence.

I appreciate much more Kimi's way of doing the talking. He only says what he thinks is worth telling, nothing more and nothing less.

Thats my opinion also, but I also acknowledge that the drivers are asked a million different questions every race weekend, they've got to answer them, and the media is free to quote them in a context suitable to whatever article they want to run.

I'd say Lewis is open to this mis-use, simply because of the fashion he has entered F1, straight at the top, a worldwide celebrity within a matter of months.

So do find it slightly unfair to blame him 100%.

[ioan]

Thats my opinion also, but I also acknowledge that the drivers are asked a million different questions every race weekend, they've got to answer them, and the media is free to quote them in a context suitable to whatever article they want to run.

I'd say Lewis is open to this mis-use, simply because of the fashion he has entered F1, straight at the top, a worldwide celebrity within a matter of months.

So do find it slightly unfair to blame him 100%.

No one stops him from giving an answer that is less open to interpretations, like Kimi.
How many times did you see them misquote or misinterpret Kimi's words?!

Lewy should start learning how to talk, before he buckles under the media pressure.

[Knock-on]

No one stops him from giving an answer that is less open to interpretations, like Kimi.
How many times did you see them misquote or misinterpret Kimi's words?!

Lewy should start learning how to talk, before he buckles under the media pressure.

I think we need to ask who exactly is bothered.

Is Lewis worried because ioan thinks him arrogant because of selective press quotes? I would suggest that he might not be and says what he wants because he's more focused with delivering the goods on track.

[ioan]

I think we need to ask who exactly is bothered.

Is Lewis worried because ioan thinks him arrogant because of selective press quotes? I would suggest that he might not be and says what he wants because he's more focused with delivering the goods on track.

I couldn't bother less with Lewy's intelligence level! :laugh:

[Dave B]

Massa has completely rejected Jordan's notion that he could take Hamilton out and win by cheating, which is no surprise as he's never struck me as a remotely dirty driver :up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/oct/29/formulaone-lewishamilton

http://www.itv-f1.com/Controller.aspx?PO_ID=44435

[PolePosition_1]

No one stops him from giving an answer that is less open to interpretations, like Kimi.
How many times did you see them misquote or misinterpret Kimi's words?!

Lewy should start learning how to talk, before he buckles under the media pressure.


Well to be fair, Kimi presents himself differently to the press. The press don't give Kimi anywhere near as much attention as they do Hamilton. So its not really a fair comparison.

If you look at Kimi pushing a photographer to the ground, letting a child fall to the ground, pushing marshalls in a temper. All these instances, if Hamilton had done them, he would get totally slated for it, but because its Kimi, it doesn't get much attention.

I think you have let the media coverage of Hamilton influence your views Ioan :)

[Big Ben]

letting a child fall to the ground

This alone proves just how 'objective' you are. thank you very much your point of view.
you can add to this the fact that he did nothing to stop the financial crisis, the cernobal disaster or the 11S attacks.
you only embarass whoever you are supporting.

[Knock-on]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71811

Fair comments from Monty. (ignore the inflamatory title)

[PolePosition_1]

This alone proves just how 'objective' you are. thank you very much your point of view.
you can add to this the fact that he did nothing to stop the financial crisis, the cernobal disaster or the 11S attacks.
you only embarass whoever you are supporting.

Well, your jumping to conclusions.

With Kimi, the incidents I mentioned, I don't think Kimi did anything wrong in any of them. With the child, the mother was trying to get his autograph, she should have taken care of her. With the photographer, the guy was standing on his stuff in build up to the grand prix, I can see why he pushed him. And with regards to pushing marshalls, he'd just retired from leading, of course he going to be angry.

I just put the points from view of the media, and just pointing out how if Lewis had done them things, he would get a lot more criticism for them than Kimi has.

Therefore making the point that its not fair to compare Kimi and Lewis in comparison to how they handle the press. Therefore its not really fair to blame Lewis for fact that the press take his quotes out of context, as Ioan said.

[ioan]

I think you have let the media coverage of Hamilton influence your views Ioan :)

Sorry pal, I only use my brain, and wouldn't care what the media writes without filtering it all. Cheers! :)

[Bagwan]

Well to be fair, Kimi presents himself differently to the press. The press don't give Kimi anywhere near as much attention as they do Hamilton. So its not really a fair comparison.

If you look at Kimi pushing a photographer to the ground, letting a child fall to the ground, pushing marshalls in a temper. All these instances, if Hamilton had done them, he would get totally slated for it, but because its Kimi, it doesn't get much attention.

I think you have let the media coverage of Hamilton influence your views Ioan :)

Exactly what else do we have on which to base ours views , but a media portrayal ?
One has to filter everything one sees , and this is how we come to have opinions . We use our experiences to compare situations , and act on our knowledge of previous encounters .
Our personalities are a collection of our experiences .

The press have identified the public perception of this young man , and , because of this , use a hyper-critical approach to bolster the idea , as , simply put , it fills copy .
That said , much of what I perceive as arrogance in Lewis comes from direct quote , preferably read in full entirety , or most importantly , TV .
TV gives far more insight , with inflection and mannerism , than print .

He's seen as having come in on a silver spoon , and , as such , will be measured hard , and maybe harder than some others .




So , Lewis is in 5th place , and storming Alonso is behind him , with Massa leading , and 6 laps to go .

If Lewis can hold Alonso behind for those 6 laps , supposing Alonso has 6 tenths on him , I will toast the young Brit .
That's the kind of finale I wouldn't mind seeing .

[Tazio]

So , Lewis is in 5th place , and storming Alonso is behind him , with Massa leading , and 6 laps to go .

If Lewis can hold Alonso behind for those 6 laps , supposing Alonso has 6 tenths on him , I will toast the young Brit .
That's the kind of finale I wouldn't mind seeing . :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Knock-on]

Exactly what else do we have on which to base ours views , but a media portrayal ?
One has to filter everything one sees , and this is how we come to have opinions . We use our experiences to compare situations , and act on our knowledge of previous encounters .
Our personalities are a collection of our experiences .

The press have identified the public perception of this young man , and , because of this , use a hyper-critical approach to bolster the idea , as , simply put , it fills copy .
That said , much of what I perceive as arrogance in Lewis comes from direct quote , preferably read in full entirety , or most importantly , TV .
TV gives far more insight , with inflection and mannerism , than print .

He's seen as having come in on a silver spoon , and , as such , will be measured hard , and maybe harder than some others .




So , Lewis is in 5th place , and storming Alonso is behind him , with Massa leading , and 6 laps to go .

If Lewis can hold Alonso behind for those 6 laps , supposing Alonso has 6 tenths on him , I will toast the young Brit .
That's the kind of finale I wouldn't mind seeing .

I've said it before but I've never found him to be arrogant. Rather, he is supremely focused and confident.

He will tell himself that he will go around the outside, take the lead and win the race. He believes he can do things that others probably won't try and he goes out there and does it.

Trouble is, when he says what he intends to do, people say it's arrogance and easy soundbites for a press that love a story.

Unless it's a live interview or full transcript, it's very hard to get the context that words are spoken in and quite often, Journalists interpret a sentence reflecting their opinion and print this as a headline.

eg.

"I know that I am as good as Ayrton Senna was." claims arrogant upstart Lewis Hamilton.

This was claimed by the German media who also claimed he's a megalomaniac but was refuted by Lewis.


"I never said that -- and I definitely wouldn't say it about Ayrton because he's my favourite driver. I think he's the best driver there ever was and, to this day, I still don't believe anyone would beat him.

"If I could achieve just a small part of what he's achieved, it would be a dream for me," Hamilton said.

You read the first statement and you say he's an arrogant tosser that has a head many sizes bigger than his helmet can accommodate.

You read the second and you think that he sounds pretty rational and down to earth.

Which do you believe. An unfounded sensationalist illogical statement by a media with little credibility at the best of times or the words of the driver himself quoted verbatim?

The press love to jazz everything up to get ratings. Lewis is flavor of the moment.

[Knock-on]

If you want to know what really makes him tick, here is a pretty frank interview.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7686562.stm

He says that there is a connection between Sennas driving style and approach and his. I think most people would agree with that but at no time does he say he is as good as Senna and goes out of his way to reiterate that in his opinion, Senna is the King.

Personally, I don't agree with him and feel that Senna was a flawed diamond in the same way as Schumacher was. Hopefully Lewis will not be tempted to the dark side and will set the standard for years to come.

[Bagwan]

So , Lewis is in 5th place , and storming Alonso is behind him , with Massa leading , and 6 laps to go .

If Lewis can hold Alonso behind for those 6 laps , supposing Alonso has 6 tenths on him , I will toast the young Brit .
That's the kind of finale I wouldn't mind seeing .

Sorry for quoting myself , but this is almost what we may see in the race .

In fact it's even better than that scenario .

You have Massa where he needs to be , to get his best chance . He's never won when off the first row .

Hamilton is 4th , beside Kimi , Massa's rear guard .

He's behind Trulli , famous for his "train" , and on the dirty side .
Kimi mentioned he'd rather be 3rd than 2nd due to the dirty surface .

Alonso , no fan of anything silver , is behind .

Lewis showed how it can all go sour last year , and the 7 points by which he leads now seems tiny , given the grid .

I saw it as exciting as I could imagine at the time , but could not think up the scenario that is now before us .

All I can really say is , wow .


Bernie must be peeing his tailor-made pants at this kind of result .
Maybe he'll forget about those medals .

[ioan]

If you want to know what really makes him tick, here is a pretty frank interview.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7686562.stm

He says that there is a connection between Sennas driving style and approach and his.

Yep, all balls no brains, that's the connection, I agree.

[Bagwan]

Nelson Sr. doesn't think Lewis will get any farther than the first corner .

[ArrowsFA1]

Yep, all balls no brains, that's the connection, I agree.
My reaction to that is similar to Hamilton's view of drivers who try to intimidate other drivers: "When people try and intimidate me, I laugh. The way I look at it, if they're doing that, it means they're worried."

Don't be so worried ioan. If things don't work out for Ferrari today, there's always next year :s mokin:

[Tazio]

I'd like Jordan to do what he does best!

Have a few truck-loads of construction debris deposited in front of the McLaren paddock :)

[Jag_Warrior]

Yep, all balls no brains, that's the connection, I agree.

Though there is another connection now. ;)

Cheers! :wave: