Gore takes shots at IRL Management [Archive]

MDS

24th October 2008, 21:38

No big shock here but Craig Gore is lashing out at IRL, saying they just don't get it and have no idea how important Surfers is to the league and if there isn't a race in Australia "Team Australia" funding will go away.

"It is far and away their second biggest race. They ... probably need to hand out corn cobs at some of the races to get people to some of them. This (Surfers) is an already made up and set up race for them."http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/10/25/17977_gold-coast-top-story.html

Much of what Gore says is along the lines of what I've been saying for a time now. Surfer's is a well attended race that sponsors one of the top teams in the series. Drivers' like it, and not only does it provide sponsorship for Will Power, supposedly Matt Halliday is in Surfer's testing the waters for a possible sponsorship with 42 below vodka and Conquest. Of course no Sufers = no Team Aussie and no 42 below. So why have a race leads to one, possibly two, sponsors?

downtowndeco

24th October 2008, 22:00

Yeah. But what's in it for the rest of the teams? For their sponsors? IMO it's not worth jumping through hoops to keep an event for one team (at the expense of the league & all of the other teams).

BTW. The remark about the corn cobs in and of itself would be enough for me to tell him jump in the lake.

No big shock here but Craig Gore is lashing out at IRL, saying they just don't get it and have no idea how important Surfers is to the league and if there isn't a race in Australia "Team Australia" funding will go away.

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/10/25/17977_gold-coast-top-story.html

Much of what Gore says is along the lines of what I've been saying for a time now. Surfer's is a well attended race that sponsors one of the top teams in the series. Drivers' like it, and not only does it provide sponsorship for Will Power, supposedly Matt Halliday is in Surfer's testing the waters for a possible sponsorship with 42 below vodka and Conquest. Of course no Sufers = no Team Aussie and no 42 below. So why have a race leads to one, possibly two, sponsors?

MDS

24th October 2008, 22:22

Chamoo

24th October 2008, 22:50

Yeah. But what's in it for the rest of the teams?

The fact that if they were in the same position, they'd be doing the exact same thing, hoping the IRL would help them save their sponsor.

On top of that, lost AU sponsorship on Will Power's car seems to kill the entire KVRT team which means two less cars. That means car count drops, excitement on track drops, value to sponsors of the rest of the cars drops.

Look at the big picture, and while you think you might be, you aren't if your saying it has no real value.

ShiftingGears

25th October 2008, 00:34

BTW. The remark about the corn cobs in and of itself would be enough for me to tell him jump in the lake.

Well that is too bad. Most IRL attendances are pitiful, and that is the truth. I laughed pretty hard at his comment - he called a spade a spade, like it or not.

Without Surfers, the IRL will just be a series with one less signature race. It is, along with the V8 supercars, one of the best weekends of motorsport.

weeflyonthewall

25th October 2008, 01:10

Without Surfers, the IRL will just be a series with one less signature race. It is, along with the V8 supercars, one of the best weekends of motorsport.

Many of the shills just don't get it. Quick to form a lemming line behind King George and to &^%$ with anything associated with CC including Cleveland, Houston, Laguna Seca, Surfer's.......

downtowndeco

25th October 2008, 01:13

Just because TG doesn't want to save the race at any cost does not mean race has no value. Both CART & CCWS went BK chasing the street racing dream.

Surfers will be just fine without OW racing. The IRL will be just fine without Surfers.

downtowndeco

25th October 2008, 01:15

You want to blame someone for CART/CCWS losing their races start with CART/CCWS management.

Many of the shills just don't get it. Quick to form a lemming line behind King George and to &^%$ with anything associated with CC including Cleveland, Houston, Laguna Seca, Surfer's.......

pits4me

25th October 2008, 01:24

Just because TG doesn't want to save the race at any cost does not mean race has no value. Both CART & CCWS went BK chasing the street racing dream.

TG has a bigger plan, some call it EGO. If you really believe everything he does is in the best interest of AOWR think again. Leaving the Atlantic Championship to survive by itself is a testament to his legacy and prowlness.

garyshell

25th October 2008, 05:44

I can always be mistaken, but I don't believe the Atlantics were ever offered up as part of any deal. GF had control and it never was a part of any proposed deal. He kept it to himself for better or worse; why, I have no idea.

Ego.

Gary

-Helix-

25th October 2008, 07:13

Many of the shills just don't get it. Quick to form a lemming line behind King George and to &^%$ with anything associated with CC including Cleveland, Houston, Laguna Seca, Surfer's.......

Seems to me that it's the opposite... Nobody is blindly following King George, but there sure are a lot blindly opposing him.

I'm sure his entire basis for not bending to every demand of the Surfers event promoters is his large ego.... right.. :rolleyes: If I recall correctly he put his offer on the table. It's up to the race promoters whether Surfers remains on the schedule or not.

It's not TG's job to make sure Power and Gore have sponsorship either.

MDS

25th October 2008, 12:29

I don't think it's all Ego, but lets be real, one of the major reasons the split continued is because the Gold Coast sent sent lawyers to Indy to argue against the Tony George' lame bankruptcy bid in 2003. Lets be honest for a second, Tony George has been called many things, but magnanimous is not one of them. I could believe it would be spite and revenge rather than ego.

That said I understand the pressure the IRL is under here. They don't want the championship to end down under, and I don't blame them for that, Champ car made that mistake at least two years running. I understand where Sufers' is at, and the best solution, moving it to March, probably isn't going to happen for next year.

Baiscally both side have reasons for being where they are, and I think both sides will lose out if they can't reach some kind of compromise, especially with F-1 leaving Australia.

DBell

25th October 2008, 13:40

RJL25

25th October 2008, 16:02

what some of you guys need to get through your heads is that the date cannot change. This isn't just an indycar event, this is also a V8 supercar event, and they have locked this event into there calander. It cannot be moved.

I heard one solution being offered by the IRL was to "just" move the date of the event forward a couple of weeks as if it's no big deal, because us Australian's have nothing going on down here we can just move things around no drama's. Lets see 2 weeks before is Bathurst, the biggest motor racing event in this country, seriously your indycar event pails in comparison to bathurst. Before that you have the AFL grand final and the NRL grand final in consecutive weeks. Holding an event on either of those weekends would be like holding an indycar race on superbowl weekend in the states, something you would never consider doing.

MDS - you comment that it's in Australia's interest to hold onto the event because we might be losing the F1 implies that indycar is a big deal down here, which it isn't! SORRY! Don't compare yourself to F1, you'd struggle comparing yourselfs to A1GP. No one down here really gives a about indycar! We know theres a couple of aussies and we have a team, but really beyond that, we couldn't care less!

There is only one reason and one reason only why surfers is a well attended event, and the reason is simple: V8 SUPERCARS! Without them, you have no event boys! We use to care about indycar, we really did i remember mansell coming down here and there was such a buzz about the event, but seriously no one cares about you anymore, you rewined it with your champcar v IRL war and we just don't care anymore.

Take your event, we don't really care, if this weekend was just a stand alone V8 supercar round it would be seriously no big deal, the crowds would still be as big and the tv audiences here in Australia would still be as big.

Sorry for the rant but you blokes need to have your series put into perspective. Indycars used to be something, but it's just not anymore, we don't care, we've moved on and we really couldn't care less if the IRL stopped having a race down here. We go to the event because of the V8 Supercars, the party atmosphere and thats it!

Walk up and down surfers today and 90% of the people in the stands are still refering to them as champcars, the only drivers people know the names of is power and briscoe, oh and most of them know there is a girl out there too, but most wouldn't know danica's name.

RJL25

25th October 2008, 16:03

bottom line, the IRL needs Australia alot more then Australia needs the IRL. Basically, Australia doesn't need the IRL! But being one of the few events that directly generate sponsors, being an event that has a bit of heritage, being one of the only events that is well atended and is setting new attendence records every year, being an event that the drivers like, being one of the only events that gives the series a little exposure outside of north america (no one even watches the indy 500 down here anymore, and i think they stopped watching in europe about 10 years ago), seriously the IRL needs this event, but Australia just doesn't need the IRL, and TG needs to wake up to this and just sign a deal, or otherwise the whole lot can just stay in north america.

It'll be cool to have Will come home and race V8 supercar anyway

RJL25

25th October 2008, 16:31

oh and moving the event to march, two reasons against it:

1) it would put the event way too close to the australian grand prix, and the Adelaide 500 V8 supercar race, both races are significantly bigger then indy

2) the reason the event is held in october in the first place is because october is traditionally a slow time for tourism on the gold coast, and holding indy in october fills up the hotels for a weekend and helps alleviate that problem. Take away this "tourism solution" and i guarantee that the queensland state government which props up the event will suddenly stop caring about it all together and the event will die anyway. Something that V8 supercar will not allow to happen, so they will completely refuse to move the event from october, and i'm sorry but in Australia, V8 supercar comes well and truly before indycar

Chris R

25th October 2008, 16:36

FWIW - I think the IRL benefits from Surfers - it is an exotic marquee event that brings a certain cache to the series. It also appeals to the somewhat more high-brow fans of the IRL relative to say NASCAR - While many want a mostly American series - a little international flavor is a great thing (and no, Mexico and Canada do not count and Motegi seems to have never had any "zing" to it at all).

As for the teams and sponsors - I suppose it depends on who is writing the checks - but many, if not all, of the sponsors have outlets in other parts of the world - besides the AMERICAN tv audience is still watching as much as they watch any other IRL race.

All that being said - there needs to be some give and take, the IRL either needs to extend the season so they can have a season ender in North America or they need to launch a short winter series (3 or 4 races in warm and/or exotic locales) with a separate championship. It would be awesome if it ended at Daytona with a 200 miler on the oval during speed weeks....

-Helix-

25th October 2008, 19:09

bottom line, the IRL needs Australia alot more then Australia needs the IRL. Basically, Australia doesn't need the IRL!

Really? So why are we going? If we're not welcome I don't see the point. Seems to me we could save a lot of time and money by staying in the U.S. and going someplace that WANTS us like... Cleveland? Road America? So many better tracks. Tracks in places that matter too. The IRL doesn't need Australia at all. It's not even that good of a race, IMO. Just because they get good crowds of weekend fans that only come for the party doesn't mean it's a good event for the REAL racing fans. I don't think we should be following CC's strategy of bringing racing to the people and the parties who don't really care about the racing and once the event is over they have no interest in the series at all. The real fans go to ovals and road races.

downtowndeco

25th October 2008, 22:03

I pretty much agree with you except the IRL has NEVER raced at Surfers. The race is pretty much about titties and beer and other than the V8's no one cares whether Indy style cars run there.

Be our guest. Keep the race.

what some of you guys need to get through your heads is that the date cannot change. This isn't just an indycar event, this is also a V8 supercar event, and they have locked this event into there calander. It cannot be moved.

I heard one solution being offered by the IRL was to "just" move the date of the event forward a couple of weeks as if it's no big deal, because us Australian's have nothing going on down here we can just move things around no drama's. Lets see 2 weeks before is Bathurst, the biggest motor racing event in this country, seriously your indycar event pails in comparison to bathurst. Before that you have the AFL grand final and the NRL grand final in consecutive weeks. Holding an event on either of those weekends would be like holding an indycar race on superbowl weekend in the states, something you would never consider doing.

MDS - you comment that it's in Australia's interest to hold onto the event because we might be losing the F1 implies that indycar is a big deal down here, which it isn't! SORRY! Don't compare yourself to F1, you'd struggle comparing yourselfs to A1GP. No one down here really gives a about indycar! We know theres a couple of aussies and we have a team, but really beyond that, we couldn't care less!

There is only one reason and one reason only why surfers is a well attended event, and the reason is simple: V8 SUPERCARS! Without them, you have no event boys! We use to care about indycar, we really did i remember mansell coming down here and there was such a buzz about the event, but seriously no one cares about you anymore, you rewined it with your champcar v IRL war and we just don't care anymore.

Take your event, we don't really care, if this weekend was just a stand alone V8 supercar round it would be seriously no big deal, the crowds would still be as big and the tv audiences here in Australia would still be as big.

Sorry for the rant but you blokes need to have your series put into perspective. Indycars used to be something, but it's just not anymore, we don't care, we've moved on and we really couldn't care less if the IRL stopped having a race down here. We go to the event because of the V8 Supercars, the party atmosphere and thats it!

Walk up and down surfers today and 90% of the people in the stands are still refering to them as champcars, the only drivers people know the names of is power and briscoe, oh and most of them know there is a girl out there too, but most wouldn't know danica's name.

ShiftingGears

25th October 2008, 22:04

Just because they get good crowds of weekend fans that only come for the party doesn't mean it's a good event for the REAL racing fans.

I don't think anyone who has been, weekend fans, or racing fans, would deny that it is a great event.

Who doesn't like a great race with a party atmosphere?

As has been said, the international flavour that Surfers gives is great. Best event on the calendar!

MDS

26th October 2008, 02:16

bottom line, the IRL needs Australia alot more then Australia needs the IRL. Basically, Australia doesn't need the IRL!

I think you're right that Australia is more important to the IRL, but the IRL effectively adds no value why invest the time and money to secure the league? Why did the Gold Coast send lawyers to argue about the damage that would be done if the Americans didn't come to the event? If it's not important why not just slip in Formula Nippon, F3 or GP2? Fact is Australia is going to lose the F-1.

Clearly there is some value in having the IRL there, because Australia has almost no international profile. Crocodile Dundee was a 1980s fad, Steve Irwin isn't with us anymore, and unless Survivor goes back there, or Kathy Griffin makes another televised trip to Sidney Gay Pride no one in this country will give yours a second thought. Basically, your 15 minutes of fame as a country is up

gofastandwynn

26th October 2008, 03:48

Yeah. But what's in it for the rest of the teams? For their sponsors? IMO it's not worth jumping through hoops to keep an event for one team (at the expense of the league & all of the other teams).

I don't hear any teams complaining about it, and other than bitching about the plane ride I haven't ever heard any. My understanding is that Surfers' is paying the IRL a $3 million sanctioning fee so the only thing is the date. I understand not wanting to run out the season and I understand not wanting to end your season in a different hemisphere, but how many sponors is Homestead bringing into the league?

The have been complaining all week about the costs of having to bring the team members down there, so much that most had to leave guys at home. This race is a money loser for all of the teams and Penske has already said thy will not come back next year if the event is not a point paying race.

Per TSO

Some of the smaller teams were able to get everyone down here with the tickets allocated by the promoter, but the larger teams had to pay for additional people, with some teams spending nearly six figures just on plane tickets. And it's not as though all these extra people are standing around - one of the Big Three teams has recruited their PR person to catch the rear tire on pit stops, and another team didn't send a PR person at all... and they've got one of the three drivers with local ties who are heavily in demand.

Also, my favorite opinion piece on the subject so far from TSO Joe:

First, Surfer's Paradise isn't the Indy 500. Sure, it's a big load of people. As best I can tell, many of these people are here for the party and wouldn't care if the headline race was the IndyCar Series, the V8 Supercar Series, or a bunch of Shriners in toy race cars as circus music plays over the PA.

Second, this race doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the IndyCar Series. For better or worse, like it or not, the IndyCar Series is set on focusing on North America as their primary market. Yes, they race in Japan, but Honda is a much larger sponsor to the IndyCar Series than Team Australia ever would be. And let's use a sponsor like Honda for an example - American Honda gets nothing from this race. Sure, Honda of Australia has a suite and some signage here, but they didn't help pay for the Honda staff who have to work this race. Move on from there to sponsors like Target, or Philip Morris, or the National Guard - they get nothing from being here. No one in Australia seems to be able to explain how a North American racing series gets benefit from racing in Australia.

Best we can tell, there are only a few paths forward.

1)The IndyCar Series does not return. It's replaced by either A1GP, another series, or the local government pulls the plug on the event. We think this is most likely.
2)The race changes its date to either side of the Motegi race. We personally don't like this idea, because there's a fair chance the season champ would be crowned halfway around the world in the middle of the night with 2 out of the last 3 races in Japan and Australia. Think how much punch Danica winning would have had if she'd done it in America - you would have a similar impact on the championship as well. We also don't think this date change would be well received here.
3)The IndyCar Series tried to end the season here. Bad idea for the above reasons, plus we think the Homestead deal specifies they're the championship race, so that would have to be re-done.
4)The IndyCar Series comes back as a non-championship round. This would likely mean the promoter would have to pay more money so the larger teams don't lose money on travel. From what we've read, we don't see this as an option for the folks in Australia.
5)The IndyCar Series adds a few races after Surfer's Paradise so that they don't end their season here. This would work, but we have no idea what venues they would add, how they fit in the schedule, etc.

The IRL does not need Australia in ANY WAY (and neither did CC for that matter). The Indy Car is a North American series, it is as simple as that. It does not need to have all of the teams lose money just so 1 sponsor that is already under suit for allegedly screwing a team out of money will stay. That is an idea so bad it would have to be from CC.

I would love from Surfers to stay, but unless it makes business sense for everybody, than it does not need to be on the schedule. It isn't ego, it is business, which was lost to CC.

robbin' shiller

26th October 2008, 04:09

Basically, your 15 minutes of fame as a country is up

Cheap shot, MDS. Australia is a wonderful country with many positives and very few negatives – and I’d love to visit sometime. Maybe you should open your mind up a bit more, eh?

On the race: Considering that this event has been shuttle cocked back and forth by the IRL for greater than eight months now, we all may be looking back on this time as yet another hit against Tony George and his (lack of) ‘Vision’. Gore’s comments regarding the IRL’s decision-making process notwithstanding, just consider the US economy and the short/long term affect it will have on racing sponsorships and perhaps even event attendance. Consider the IRL’s TV package – an unknown at this point – and predicted lower ratings which will not help sponsorship matters until it proves itself with solid performance for a few years.

International exposure – especially Australia’s absolutely ‘World Class’ performance - is good for the expansion of promotional and sponsorship opportunities (I think a few teams even picked up ‘one-off’ deals for this race) and we all know that the IRL will need every opportunity it can generate to land a series sponsor in this economic climate. In fact, Indy Car’s product value goes up with the inclusion of Australia and Japan, making Canada and perhaps Mexico seem more ‘international’, too. I would even encourage an oval in Europe at some point in the future.

And finally, Australia can put some real weight behind George’s desire to showcase the Indy 500 as an ‘International-caliber’ sporting event by allowing the series to properly reflect its crown jewel (and I’m not talking about ovals here).

It’s no small wonder that other open-wheel series are licking their chops at the thought of yet another Tony George miscue. And I wouldn’t be surprised if sponsorship decision-makers and racing’s power brokers are keeping an eye trained on the outcome, too. And The IRL excuse of not wanting to schedule events into the NFL season is pure hogwash. Let’s come back to that argument in 5-10 years if Indy Car gets enough of a viewer base to be truly concerned about such things. Right now, the IRL needs marquee events like Long Beach and Australia to fire the imaginations of new-found fans. Sorry, but Iowa just doesn’t cut it.

Indy Car fans should pray that George finds a way to pull this deal out of the fire, because truth is – the IRL really does need this race. If the IRL fails here, it will be viewed as more of the same by critics and sponsorship fence-sitters, and die-hard IRL fans will have to go back to dusting off their ‘Road To Indy’ caps and wondering where it all went wrong.

Cheers!

garyshell

26th October 2008, 04:49

Seems to me that it's the opposite... Nobody is blindly following King George, but there sure are a lot blindly opposing him.

Oh please, you can't really be serious. There are just as many folks on both sides of that aisle. He has his share of boot lickers and boot kickers.

Gary

garyshell

26th October 2008, 04:51

I agree with your post MDS, but the end was news to me. I know there has been rumors that the Australia GP was endangered, but a new extension was signed this year and it's on the schedule in 09. Have you heard something different?

Well a signed extension didn't help the folks in Canada or France did it?

Gary

maccadownunder

26th October 2008, 04:51

I think you're right that Australia is more important to the IRL, but the IRL effectively adds no value why invest the time and money to secure the league? Why did the Gold Coast send lawyers to argue about the damage that would be done if the Americans didn't come to the event? If it's not important why not just slip in Formula Nippon, F3 or GP2? Fact is Australia is going to lose the F-1.

Clearly there is some value in having the IRL there, because Australia has almost no international profile. Crocodile Dundee was a 1980s fad, Steve Irwin isn't with us anymore, and unless Survivor goes back there, or Kathy Griffin makes another televised trip to Sidney Gay Pride no one in this country will give yours a second thought. Basically, your 15 minutes of fame as a country is up

Have you been here? Do you know what this country is about?

Clearly based upon your comments, you haven't been outside your bedroom in 20 years... My goodness... Lucky you have the net to get your outside world fix...

nemodat

26th October 2008, 06:00

IRL needs to keep Surfers. I have already lost a lot of interest in this series since the merger/takeover. If they (TG) want to keep it just a North American series of mostly turning left racing, I think I can find some full contact origami to fill my need for sporting thrills. If they want to capture the attention of more sponsors, they need to keep it more international. While TG is at it, he may want to dump some of the boring mid-US ovals and pick up some racing in Europe and maybe Asia. Otherwise, IRL is going to be gone very soon. Even Americans don't want it much.

I think we can all see that F1 is in huge trouble these days. It is facing the same reality as CART, ChampCar and IRL in that the racing budgets are out of control. Fill the void that is inevitably being left by F1, have some continuity in drivers (being racers that actually come back for several seasons in a row so fans can identify with them) and add some interesting locales. I don't think Iowa qualifies.

F1boat

26th October 2008, 07:29

After I read RJ's rant it seemed that the event should stay as the l;ast round of the season or be gone. IndyCar is a US-based series and IMO its final should be in front of fans who care about it. US fans.
Of course, it could stay as a non-championship event.

Dr. Krogshöj

26th October 2008, 09:30

Well a signed extension didn't help the folks in Canada or France did it?

Gary

So do you think the Aussies would breach the contract like Legault did or simply withdraw like the FFSA?

Rex Monaco

26th October 2008, 16:35

I liked CART's initial focus on South America and the Pacific rim. But I was not at all enthusiastic about the timing of their European aspirations. An earlier focus might have changed history.

I think races in Mexico, South America, Australia and Japan can only bring more sponsorship and driver interest to the series.

Certainly exposure for the engine suppliers would be much greater.

Focusing on North America only, makes it a direct competitor with NASCAR for sponsorship dollars. And in that race, the ICS can only lose.

That said, the most cost effective way to do Surfers would be with a stop at Motegi on the way there or on the way back. Not sure how the weather conditions in either country could make that a reality without a major schedule change to both.

indycool

26th October 2008, 22:21

Well, MDS, you say the IRL gets a $3 million sanction fee. I have no idea if that's true, but hypothetically, let's say that it is.

Out of that comes a couple 747s to make a roundtrip with equipment, several hundred roundtrip plane tickets, a purse, hotel rooms, per diems for team members, and no ROI for U.S. sponsors.

You tell us how to squeeze all of that into three million dollars. IMO, THAT is the business part that doesn't work.

MDS

26th October 2008, 23:01

Have you been here? Do you know what this country is about?

Clearly based upon your comments, you haven't been outside your bedroom in 20 years... My goodness... Lucky you have the net to get your outside world fix...

I travel abroad typically twice a year or more and get most of my news from BBC America and other international sources and do you know how many times I've heard stories about Australia this year? Maybe four times between both American and Europe. We've heard more about Iceland's economy this year than we have Australia. Really, as countries go Australia might be a nice place to visit, but its not a place that regularly makes international news, or does anything noteworthy. Honestly outside of international competition Australia is largely decoupled from the rest of the world, and really isn't in a place to be severing ties with the outside world by losing both F-1 and the IRL.

Fact is Surfers could probably survive just as well without the IRL, but then it would just be yet another event that the only a fraction of the 21 million people who live in Australia care about.

SoCalPVguy

27th October 2008, 02:02

The IRL does not need Australia in ANY WAY (and neither did CC for that matter). The Indy Car is a North American series, it is as simple as that. It does not need to have all of the teams lose money just so 1 sponsor that is already under suit for allegedly screwing a team out of money will stay. That is an idea so bad it would have to be from CC.

Australia needs the IRL a LOT more than the IRL needs Australia.

millencolin

27th October 2008, 02:03

Really, as countries go Australia might be a nice place to visit, but its not a place that regularly makes international news, or does anything noteworthy.

Lol i'm sorry we have a relatively stable economy, stable government and peaceful society. Should we start a civil war, or invade New Zealand, Blow up the opera house or convert to communism? :p :

I just arrived home from indy, head thumping from the celebration hangover. The fact is that there is no other motorsport event like Surfers anywhere in the world. You have to attend it to fully appretiate the full-on party atmosphere that this event brings. Lol, 5 different nightclubs, just to celebrate Ryan's fantastic victory. Throw in the street parades, free live music and endless functions/parties to celebrate indy, its an event like none other.

This highly attended, well sponsored race just seems to get better every year. What would you rather, a oval race on a cookie cutter oval in some part of the USA with about 40 000 people attending... Or an event in an iconic location that provides such a buzz that nearly 300000 people attend throughout the weekend, that comes with a free hangover :p :

millencolin

27th October 2008, 02:07

Australia needs the IRL a LOT more than the IRL needs Australia.

Not really no... its the v8supercars that bring in the crowds

We would love for the IRL to reurn, due to the indycar/champcar history that is involved within the event. But if you decide to race on a two-bit oval instead... fine! Indy will live on, v8supercars plus the A1GP (according to Alan Jones)... Indy will still be the same event, just be lacking the american influence

We would very much love for you to come back, but if you decline our invitation.... fine, stuff ya's, we dont need you. We want the IRL here, BUT WE DONT NEED THE IRL

MDS

27th October 2008, 11:35

This highly attended, well sponsored race just seems to get better every year. What would you rather, a oval race on a cookie cutter oval in some part of the USA with about 40 000 people attending... Or an event in an iconic location that provides such a buzz that nearly 300000 people attend throughout the weekend, that comes with a free hangover :p :

I want the IRL to return to Surfers next year and beyond, but the idea that the presence of one of the top open wheel series in the world tied into the most powerful economy in the world doesn't give any benefit to the event seems a bit unfounded.

It seems to me there is only one date the Gold Coast wants Indy to be and is unwilling to consider options. If that's the case, then I really can't blame Tony George for not wanting to come back and end his season after F-1 wraps up theirs.

That said, I've been to Sufers five times for the race, and its totally worth 14 hours in an airplane for the party.

Gluaistean

27th October 2008, 18:44

I travel abroad typically twice a year or more and get most of my news from BBC America and other international sources and do you know how many times I've heard stories about Australia this year? Maybe four times between both American and Europe. We've heard more about Iceland's economy this year than we have Australia. Really, as countries go Australia might be a nice place to visit, but its not a place that regularly makes international news, or does anything noteworthy. Honestly outside of international competition Australia is largely decoupled from the rest of the world, and really isn't in a place to be severing ties with the outside world by losing both F-1 and the IRL.

Fact is Surfers could probably survive just as well without the IRL, but then it would just be yet another event that the only a fraction of the 21 million people who live in Australia care about.

You failed to mention until a later post that you were at the race five times. When were you there? When in a later post you mentioned a country with the strongest economy in the world ;what country are you speaking of because the sentence made no sense? Just like most of the other comments pertaining to Australia you have made. If you want to have xenophobic rants and degrading comments about a country then you should start a forum where idiocy is allowed.

Just to make a couple of things clear to you, Australia is one of the most vibrant economies in the world with one of the highest standards of living. Even higher per capita than , guess where?? With it's Penal Colony origin and fast track to a modern affluent society, Australia has managed to help out as allies in World War 1 World War II and Vietnam. The Battle of the Somme was where the song "Green Fields of France" originated. Quite a famous song about a young Australian dying in France in the most hideous of battles far from his beloved home and family. Willie McBride.
Then we can go to aviation and the Duigan Brothers. 1910, was pretty eventful for them. Did I mention the combine harvester? Or even the degaussing(sic) which I'm sure you were about to mention. A system that enables a ship to expel magnetic charges from being planted to their undersides. Then the famous Black Box and countless other inventions along with poets ,writers, engineers and athletes.

It always saddens me when I see posts like this and hear people that I live with in the country I love make inane comments when it is so evident that so many do not have the capability to point out a specific country on a map yet alone have a reasonable discussion about it.

Oh look, there is Russia! I know foreign policy.

Give me a break with this 15 minutes of fame ****.

NickFalzone

27th October 2008, 19:03

I haven't seen a whole lot printed about Australia in the US press lately, but the last year or two they have made strides in science and technology, particularly new advances coming out of CSIRO. This is where the US is falling behind and countries like Australia are taking advantage of our economic problems.

MDS

27th October 2008, 19:50

When were you there?

I was there as a team member from 1999 to 2001, where we won the race with Adrian Fernandez in 2000. Then I went there with friends in 2003 and 2005. (Although my memories of the racing are fuzzy at best). I was also in Australia for a wedding in 2005, and in Auckland NZ for the America's Cup Challenge in 2003 and traveled to Australia a number of times during that whole ordeal for various reasons.

It's not like I'm unfamiler with your country. I think you just have an inflated sense of where it fits on the national stage.

nigelred5

27th October 2008, 22:20

Sounds a lot like the expression in the music industry "Were HUGE in Japan"......... :rolleyes:

Gluaistean

28th October 2008, 01:33

I was there as a team member from 1999 to 2001, where we won the race with Adrian Fernandez in 2000. Then I went there with friends in 2003 and 2005. (Although my memories of the racing are fuzzy at best). I was also in Australia for a wedding in 2005, and in Auckland NZ for the America's Cup Challenge in 2003 and traveled to Australia a number of times during that whole ordeal for various reasons.

It's not like I'm unfamiler with your country. I think you just have an inflated sense of where it fits on the national stage.

So, when you were there and now I see you were also in New Zealand, may I ask a question? Since you implied that you were possible drunk a lot of the time would you or could you see fit to apologize to the board members that are either Australian or of Australian heritage for your ill conceived comments.

MDS

28th October 2008, 02:32

So, when you were there and now I see you were also in New Zealand, may I ask a question? Since you implied that you were possible drunk a lot of the time would you or could you see fit to apologize to the board members that are either Australian or of Australian heritage for your ill conceived comments.

So because I made two drinking trips to Australia I need to apologize?

All I've said is Australia is not very big on the national stage. Honestly I don't think they would make a top-20 list of influential countries, maybe not even the top 30

Rex Monaco

28th October 2008, 03:10

So because I made two drinking trips to Australia I need to apologize?

All I've said is Australia is not very big on the national stage. Honestly I don't think they would make a top-20 list of influential countries, maybe not even the top 30

Top 20 Countries in Physics
http://sciencewatch.com/dr/cou/2008/08mar20PHY/

Top 20 countries in chemistry
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=403046&sectioncode=26

The Top 20 World’s Most Globalized Nations
http://basman.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/at-kearney-ranks-the-top-20-worlds-most-globalized-nations/

Nation Brand Index
http://www.marketingcharts.com/topics/asia-pacific/germany-first-us-seventh-in-nation-brands-index-of-country-reputation-6146/roper-nations-brands-index-top-20-countries-2008jpg/

Global Peace Index Rankings
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings.php

Australia now world's fattest nation
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/health/australia-now-worlds-fattest-nation/2008/06/19/1213770886872.html

Gluaistean

28th October 2008, 03:47

So because I made two drinking trips to Australia I need to apologize?

All I've said is Australia is not very big on the national stage. Honestly I don't think they would make a top-20 list of influential countries, maybe not even the top 30

You know the old saying about digging the hole. Time for you to stop spewing about something you know absolutely nothing about. Nothing!!

The reason you were asked to apologize is totally lost on you as was the whole Australian experience. No wonder Fernadez could never make it.

millencolin

28th October 2008, 04:48

Top 20 Countries in Physics
http://sciencewatch.com/dr/cou/2008/08mar20PHY/

Top 20 countries in chemistry
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=403046&sectioncode=26

The Top 20 World’s Most Globalized Nations
http://basman.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/at-kearney-ranks-the-top-20-worlds-most-globalized-nations/

Nation Brand Index
http://www.marketingcharts.com/topics/asia-pacific/germany-first-us-seventh-in-nation-brands-index-of-country-reputation-6146/roper-nations-brands-index-top-20-countries-2008jpg/

Global Peace Index Rankings
http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi/results/rankings.php

Australia now world's fattest nation
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/health/australia-now-worlds-fattest-nation/2008/06/19/1213770886872.html

Wow, i knew we were fat, but damn, we kick arse!!!

throw in our various sporting achievements and yeah, we kick arse :p :

back on topic... err what was the topic?

Gluaistean

29th October 2008, 15:54

Is not being mentioned in the press an indicator of good/bad where world affairs are concerned?
The comments by MDS are amusing to me. They remind me more about someone that has never left his parish let alone his claim to being a world traveler with a race team and I assume business. I know from my travels, and they have been many with trips to Greece,Spain,Portugal, Switzerland, Ireland, UK and many others , yet I would never use the criteria expressed by MDS to argue a point on the validity of having a race because of the lack of mentions in the press/news. Spain certainly comes to mind and look at what they do with respect to F1 and MoTo GP. They sure have a lot of international exposure in soccer too, being World Champions.

The IRL would be idiotic to think/believe that they can redefine open wheel racing in this country by being entrenched in here.

A bad indicator for them would be the fact that any potential sponsor with a world vision with marketing , and these are the only one's that can afford racing,is the treatment of a company such as Australia Vineyards led by Al Gore. He and Kevin Kalkoven have spent a considerable amount of money on open wheel in the US.

Both, if George gets his way and succumbs to the Penske , Ganassi whining about their lack of interest because of their sponsors. I wonder who is sponsoring Penske right now? Marlboro? Using some sort of legal maneuver?

Race teams need more of a future outlook than their narrow minded oval middle America Joe the Plummer attitude. International audiences which count in the demographics of the series are when Joyce Julius uses their system of views and expose will not be too impressed with the likes of the cornfields of Iowa. Not when they are used to getting Surfers , Monaco, Dubai,Monza, Silverstone.

Does anyone on this board who really has an international perspective on the racing scene not see that by eliminating Surfers Paradise from the schedule that they will be in effect be shooting themselves in the foot. They will be a series with a base in the US and one overseas race in Japan that a couple of hundred thousand people see. Not great ROI for the sponsor, but who cares? Honda is paying for it and as a matter of fact the three million dollars that is given to the IRL to race in Surfers;that money is theirs. The rest is also covered by Queensland.
Like everyone else I have my sources. I am in the marketing advertising business and have a person that has handled large deals within both the IRL and Champ car. This deal, one of my sources says will be a back-breaker for the IRL if it wants to gain serious recognition as a sporting body worldwide. If it wants to be seen as only a North American series then that is what they have to concentrate on. No Japan , no Australia.

A1GP even though it is not a huge success yet has potential if marketed properly in a manner that Champ Car did not. I know, I for one would prefer to see a Ferrari powered car and Ferrari chassis race than these lumbering ugly cars that we have had to put up with since the so called "merger".

Another source not currently in the series but one that helped negotiate a large deal ($55 million) in hard currency to a team and that only included R&R, drivers salaries and crew. Transporters,computers, travel and entertaining clients was extra. That believe it or not was in the 90's. Nowadays, he says very little money is exchanged except for crew and drivers. The rest is bartered. However, most drivers bring their own salaries with them , such as EJ, Milka, Bernoldi and in some cases Tags.
GP2 is another series that is great to watch with large fields, great looking cars and fully sponsored teams with names like Senna, Pantano and a young Russian that is catching people's eye on the rise.

So, if Gore is angry and threatening to pull out..well I don't blame him. To him and KK it would be like telling TG that he could race and fund a team as long as INDY was not included.

MDS

29th October 2008, 19:42

The comments by MDS are amusing to me. They remind me more about someone that has never left his parish let alone his claim to being a world traveler with a race team and I assume business. I know from my travels, and they have been many with trips to Greece,Spain,Portugal, Switzerland, Ireland, UK and many others , yet I would never use the criteria expressed by MDS to argue a point on the validity of having a race because of the lack of mentions in the press/news.

I love this sort of elitist view, that if I disagree with someone I must not be as well traveled/educated as they are. The fact is Australia is largely decoupled from the rest of world, is restricting its immigration and is largely a self-sufficent market that doesn't export much culturally to the U.S. or Europe, unlike say the UK, and its prime demographic market is somewhere around 12 million. It's not an insignificant country, but its not a massive player on the international stage, militarily, economically or culturally.

Does anyone on this board who really has an international perspective on the racing scene not see that by eliminating Surfers Paradise from the schedule that they will be in effect be shooting themselves in the foot. They will be a series with a base in the US and one overseas race in Japan that a couple of hundred thousand people see. Not great ROI for the sponsor, but who cares? Honda is paying for it and as a matter of fact the three million dollars that is given to the IRL to race in Surfers;that money is theirs. The rest is also covered by Queensland.
Like everyone else I have my sources. I am in the marketing advertising business and have a person that has handled large deals within both the IRL and Champ car. This deal, one of my sources says will be a back-breaker for the IRL if it wants to gain serious recognition as a sporting body worldwide. If it wants to be seen as only a North American series then that is what they have to concentrate on. No Japan , no Australia.

While I agree with you that leaving Surfers' Paradise out there for A1GP or another formula series would be moronic, I hardly think it would be a backbreaker. Tony George has shown he's willing to dump $50 to $100 million a year to keep the IRL going, and will do so again if he has to. That said I think Sufers is an excellent event that is not only providing a sponsor for a top-10 team, but could potentially generate one for Conquest as well.

That said, it doesn't appear that the Gold Coast officials are willing to move off the one weekend that they're demanding, and I can't really fault Tony George for not wanting to end his season with a race that starts at 10 p.m. Eastern on a Saturday. It's gotten to the point where they're outright lying in the press to keep from negotiating.

Sports Minister Judy Spence, who met Mr George and IRL operatives several times over the past four days, said dates remained a hurdle.
"They would prefer to come in March and we have said March is not an acceptable time for us," she said. "It takes 100 days to construct the track and we just cannot start that in January in the middle of a Gold Coast holiday season."The race ran in March from 1991 to 1997, so its been done before, and done successfully. From what I hear Gold Coast officials are refusing to budge off the Oct 24th weekend and are unwilling to conisder any IRL proposal. Meanwhile the IRL is stalling in the hopes of blocking another open wheel series picking the race up in 2009 in the hopes of working a better deal for 2010.

Lousada

29th October 2008, 21:46

They sure have a lot of international exposure in soccer too, being World Champions.
Italy is the world champion, Spain is the European Champion.

The IRL would be idiotic to think/believe that they can redefine open wheel racing in this country by being entrenched in here.
huh? They ARE open wheel racing in this country.

A bad indicator for them would be the fact that any potential sponsor with a world vision with marketing , and these are the only one's that can afford racing,is the treatment of a company such as Australia Vineyards led by Al Gore. He and Kevin Kalkoven have spent a considerable amount of money on open wheel in the US.
Again: huh? Australia Vineyards is not a company with a world vision of marketing. Their primary reason for sponsoring the IRL and Champcar before that, is to penetrate the US market. Which has always been the reason of any big real sponsor in US Open Wheel.

Does anyone on this board who really has an international perspective on the racing scene not see that by eliminating Surfers Paradise from the schedule that they will be in effect be shooting themselves in the foot.
I do not see that, but maybe I do not have an international perspective. By eliminating Surfer's Paradise, at most they alienate the 20 million Australians. The rest of the world doesn't care, perhaps are even happy because the race is always on at the middle of the night.

This deal, one of my sources says will be a back-breaker for the IRL if it wants to gain serious recognition as a sporting body worldwide. If it wants to be seen as only a North American series then that is what they have to concentrate on. No Japan , no Australia.
I don't understand this comment? The IRL is recognized as a serious sporting body worldwide. They have been a frontrunner in safety regulations for years and they run a still fairly high profile championship. And, some of them happen to run one of the most high quality race tracks in the world. If you think that they don't have international recognition, I have to wonder.

Another source not currently in the series but one that helped negotiate a large deal ($55 million) in hard currency to a team and that only included R&R, drivers salaries and crew. Transporters,computers, travel and entertaining clients was extra. That believe it or not was in the 90's.
How much of that money was for the north american market? How much of any sponsor money from the 90's was from international sponsors aiming at the international audience? It is the misconception that killed CART: Their (target) sponsors are North American divisions of multinationals, and these sponsors only care about North America.
International sponsors do not want the IRL, because they have F1. And if they can't afford F1 they go to WTCC or WRC or LMS. International sponsors do not want a race series that has 90%, 75%, 60% or even 40% of it's races in the USA and CA. Because if they wanted impact in the USA, they'd sponsor NASCAR. Or the current IRL.

GP2 is another series that is great to watch with large fields, great looking cars and fully sponsored teams with names like Senna, Pantano and a young Russian that is catching people's eye on the rise.
Nobody watches GP2 and they don't have fully sponsored teams. It's full of ride buyers and the rest are development teams like Red Bull.

Gluaistean

30th October 2008, 01:48

Italy is the world champion, Spain is the European Champion.

huh? They ARE open wheel racing in this country.

Again: huh? Australia Vineyards is not a company with a world vision of marketing. Their primary reason for sponsoring the IRL and Champcar before that, is to penetrate the US market. Which has always been the reason of any big real sponsor in US Open Wheel.

I do not see that, but maybe I do not have an international perspective. By eliminating Surfer's Paradise, at most they alienate the 20 million Australians. The rest of the world doesn't care, perhaps are even happy because the race is always on at the middle of the night.

I don't understand this comment? The IRL is recognized as a serious sporting body worldwide. They have been a frontrunner in safety regulations for years and they run a still fairly high profile championship. And, some of them happen to run one of the most high quality race tracks in the world. If you think that they don't have international recognition, I have to wonder.

How much of that money was for the north american market? How much of any sponsor money from the 90's was from international sponsors aiming at the international audience? It is the misconception that killed CART: Their (target) sponsors are North American divisions of multinationals, and these sponsors only care about North America.
International sponsors do not want the IRL, because they have F1. And if they can't afford F1 they go to WTCC or WRC or LMS. International sponsors do not want a race series that has 90%, 75%, 60% or even 40% of it's races in the USA and CA. Because if they wanted impact in the USA, they'd sponsor NASCAR. Or the current IRL.

Nobody watches GP2 and they don't have fully sponsored teams. It's full of ride buyers and the rest are development teams like Red Bull.

I stand corrected for the Freudian slip pertaining to Spain being World Champions. I did mean European Champions but I gather you got the basic premise of the point.

As far as the IRL being considered a serious challenger or contender on the global market...I suggest you visit some of those global markets and ask about the IRL. By and large the answer invariably is ..huh? Nobody in any serious racing country and those at the moment are European, Middle and Far East do not care about the IRL or most besides drivers looking to prolong their career even know it exists save that there is some kind of open wheel racing in the US.