Points system

[AndyRAC]

Although this a mainly WRC point, I've included it in the F1 forum as it could be applicable to the sport as well.
Whilst web browsing, I read that Seb has won 10 -13 rounds, whilst I knew this, it looked more startling written down. What is amazing, is the fact that this 'domination' hasn't yet won him the Championship. This is ridiculous, the points difference between 1st & 2nd isn't enough. We have the possible (although hopefully unlikely) scenario of Seb's car letting him down in the next 2 events and him losing the Championship. It would sum up the sport that the dominating driver didn't win the Championship.
Who dreamed up the current points system, it encourages drivers to settle for 2nd or 3rd. Change it, please!!

[pino]

This points-system is a joke and I've said it millions times now :p :

Change it please !!!

[Roy]

This is good. There is some more competition through the year. With another points system the sport was allready dead with so a boring year. Allways the same fast driver who win. Yes he is good, but you must be good at the end of the season too.

To bring the podium closer was a good idea. Competition a year long, that is what all sports need.

[Daniel]

It's artificial though Roy. There should be competition throughout the year but only if the drivers are good enough. A guy like Mikko doesn't deserve to be in the title race at this stage of the year. He's simply not good enough and this system is a joke. I've no problem with Sebastien winning by 500 points because he is just that much better than the others.

[bluuford]

I think that we have quite a good points system in Estonia.. at the moment.
1. 15 pts
2. 12 pts
3. 10 pts
4. 8 pts
5. 6 pts
6. 5 pts
7. 4 pts
8. 3 pts
9. 2 pts
10. 1 pts
In addition to that it is useful that you have to leave your worst result of the season (for example tec. prob.) out from your total points tally.
There are two good things.
1. You can get bigger reward for winning and therefore need to take bigger risks and you can afford to retire at least once in a year.
2. If the first top 10 gets the points then guys like Wilson and Rautenbach wont be that high on the season total points table just because they took part in long haul events where they got points for just finishing the rallies. At the same time there are guys behind them (In total points table) who are always in front of them in European events with much tighter competition.
I was happy about the current points system... until I saw how well the current Estonian system is working.

[Lousada]

I think that we have quite a good points system in Estonia.. at the moment.
1. 15 pts
2. 12 pts
3. 10 pts
4. 8 pts
5. 6 pts
6. 5 pts
7. 4 pts
8. 3 pts
9. 2 pts
10. 1 pts
In addition to that it is useful that you have to leave your worst result of the season (for example tec. prob.) out from your total points tally.
There are two good things.
1. You can get bigger reward for winning and therefore need to take bigger risks and you can afford to retire at least once in a year.
2. If the first top 10 gets the points then guys like Wilson and Rautenbach wont be that high on the season total points table just because they took part in long haul events where they got points for just finishing the rallies. At the same time there are guys behind them (In total points table) who are always in front of them in European events with much tighter competition.
I was happy about the current points system... until I saw how well the current Estonian system is working.

The Estonian system is the same as the WRC except it gives points to number 9 and 10. See: 15/12 = 1,25 and 10/8 = 1,25.

[bluuford]

The Estonian system is the same as the WRC except it gives points to number 9 and 10. See: 15/12 = 1,25 and 10/8 = 1,25.
No, it is not the same. As I mentioned, one rally will be deleted from your totals (which is very important addition). In that occasion Loeb would have 160 points and Hirvonen 136 points. That means Loeb has to get only 5 points in two rallies (6th=5pts) :-) and there is bigger difference in third and fourth spot. In wrc there is only 1 point in EST system it is already two points.
And if you take:
15/10=1.5 but 10/6 is nearly 1.68,
15/8=1.87 and 10/5=2.
As a full system..I must admit that this points system is working much better.

[Roy]

I've no problem with Sebastien winning by 500 points because he is just that much better than the others.

I have! What a boring season, will it be.
Motorsport is more than fast driving. Is about endurance also. Loeb and Hirvonen still fighting because Loeb (can) DNF (again like he did) in Jordan.

[Daniel]

In Jordan he got hit by Conrad. Why is it boring to see a driver rewarded for being so much better?

[Roy]

In Jordan he got hit by Conrad. Why is it boring to see a driver rewarded for being so much better?

You know early in the season who wins the title. I don't like it.
But you does (?)

[Daniel]

I think the best driver should always win. Before this year there was always the chance someone else would win.

[Viking]

Hey, the annual points-system discussion tread are here :)

Why not go all the way and just give points to the winner? Then we could have this now:

1. S.Loeb 100 points
2. M.Hirvonen 20 points
3. JM.Latvala 10 points
4. Other drivers 0 points in alphabetical order (Wilson would not benefit of this :D )

Or we could just leave it as it is?

[pino]

I think the best driver should always win....

...and he must be rewarded much more than he's now compared to those who finish on podium :hmph:

[Daniel]

Yep Pino. We're not seeing the fighting for wins because to win the title you don't need to fight. I want to see fighting for rally wins and not some mock fight on the championship ladder. I go to see rallies and I watch them on the tv. A close title battle doesn't necessarily mean good tv.

[pino]

I am sick and tired to spend money and time to watch Rally-event and get up on Sunday with no interest to go and watch 3d day due to this stupid points-system. None is fighting anymore in the last day and that's very sad :down: :mad:

[Daniel]

Me too. Part of it is the lack of depth in the field. Remember 2002 and 2003? Remember how many guys could win back then? Back then if you backed off you slipped back into the clutches of the chasing pack. Now day 1 is all out, day 2 you drive to keep your lead and day 3 you cruise.

[urabus-denoS2000]

If you want to have an exciting championship,find at least 3 guys that can MATCH Loeb on ANY surface.
Dont blame Loeb,he is the best and he should already be champion.I know that isnt interesting,but he does deserve it and it is the way it should be!!!
It just shows how stupid the current points system is:Loeb 10 wins,Hirvonen 2 wins and Hirvonen still has chances for the championship!!!!!

[jonkka]

It just shows how stupid the current points system is:Loeb 10 wins,Hirvonen 2 wins and Hirvonen still has chances for the championship!!!!!

Loeb has two non-scores whereas Mikko has scored a four or more points in every single round. You have to take that into account too. It is not unheard of that the driver who wins most rounds does not win championship, in 1992 Didier Auriol won six rounds but finished only 3rd in the championship behind Carlos (4 wins) and Kankkunen (1 win). Back then scoring was on scale of 20-15-12-etc, much better than the current 10-8-6-etc.

The current scale was introduced for F1 in days when Schumacher was winning as he pleased and FIA wanted to make run-away championship harder by narrowing the gap between 1st and 2nd. It's an artificial way to keep the title race closer and maintain interest amongst the followers of the sport.

I think that we all would like genuine competition better but as long as there is only two competitive teams and very few drivers to oppose Loeb, the current situation is better than the alternative of Loeb clinching the title by mid-season and WRC having rest of the year for nothing.

[RS]

In the unlikely event that Mikko is crowned champion I won't be watching this sport again until they change the rules. No offence to Mikko, because he is most definitely the second best driver in WRC at the moment but his wins are even questionable (Jordan where Seb was taken out, Turkey with Ford's special sweeping games) He was even beaten by Loeb in Finland for heaven's sake. He simply should not be in the running now still.

The only reason he is is a combination of the points systems and Ford's tactics and team orders.

The championship is only 12 events next year, so it would be a good time to change the points system.

[Torsen]

seb should be killing everyone in the championship! sadly the points don't reflect it...

[jparker]

I think that we all would like genuine competition better but as long as there is only two competitive teams and very few drivers to oppose Loeb, the current situation is better than the alternative of Loeb clinching the title by mid-season and WRC having rest of the year for nothing.

I think the same. More competitive drivers in genuine competition will make the point system irrelevant issue.

[jens]

If the competition was tighter, then the points system could even work (like in 2003), but in current sparse competition this system is really poor. Due to lack of rivals a driver in a top car can just cruise around and comfortably collect consistent 2nd and 3rd places and "somehow" stay in title contention. Which is what Mikko is exactly doing. This system benefits consistent and conservative driving way too much. If a faster rival has at least one more failure over a season (which may not be even his fault), then the game is open again. Somehow.

By the way, I don't think Hirvonen has made less mistakes than Loeb this season. He shouldn't have collected any points in Argentina (+20 mins behind winner), but somehow a lot of drivers retired and he still got good points. :dozey: That's another example of the weakness of the system. In the current field even with a retirement you can get decent points and stay in "top" contention. And then fans say that he is just getting rewarded for consistency. Well, in Jordan Loeb lost with +20 mins too (after a very controversial incident), but didn't get rewarded for this by points unlike Hirvonen.

[Lousada]

No, it is not the same. As I mentioned, one rally will be deleted from your totals (which is very important addition). In that occasion Loeb would have 160 points and Hirvonen 136 points. That means Loeb has to get only 5 points in two rallies (6th=5pts) :-) and there is bigger difference in third and fourth spot. In wrc there is only 1 point in EST system it is already two points.
And if you take:
15/10=1.5 but 10/6 is nearly 1.68,
15/8=1.87 and 10/5=2.
As a full system..I must admit that this points system is working much better.

The relative gaps are actually smaller in Estonia, as indicated by your calculations. The gap between third and fourth spot is two points, but if you measure them in the same units as the WRC, the gap is only 1.3 points. Only the gaps from three to four and four to five are slightly bigger, all the others are smaller.
As for drop scores, please no. Not another Senna/Prost situation. Drop scores are for smaller championships where privateers can't compete in every round. By the way, if you count one dropscore in this years WRC, Loeb would only need seventh, so the current WRC system is actually more rewarding than the Estonian system.

[cosmicpanda]

It's artificial though Roy. There should be competition throughout the year but only if the drivers are good enough. A guy like Mikko doesn't deserve to be in the title race at this stage of the year. He's simply not good enough and this system is a joke. I've no problem with Sebastien winning by 500 points because he is just that much better than the others.

and what wouldn't be artificial? The drivers running through the stages, to remove the artificialness of the cars? Motor racing is an artificial sport at the best of times.