Schumi: Where for art thou?

[Hawkmoon]

James Allen alluded to something on the weekend that has been nagging at me since about the half-way point of the season. And that is what could Michael Schumacher do with a car as good as the F2008?

Allen suggested that some where saying that the only reason Hamilton is even in the title hunt is because the Ferrari drivers have singularly failed to deliver the goods. I think there's some truth to this theory.

We all know how crappy a season Raikkonen's had. He's lost 16 points that I can think of through chucking the car at the scenery or another car. Spa - lost 8 points spinning out of 2nd. Singapore - lost 4 points running by hitting the wall while running 5th and Monaco - lost 4 points by ramming Sutil while running 5th. Can anybody see Schumi doing that? Those points would have clinched the WCC already and seen him still in contention for the WDC.

Massa hasn't lost as many points, just 8 (from memory) from throwing it off the road in Malaysia but those 8 points would see us with 1 point ball game with 1 race to play. Throw in a truly awful performance at Silverstone and you have the makings of a championship lost.

I have the feeling that even a 2006 vintage Schumi would have put Hamilton away this year. The F2008 is the better car and Schumi would have put it to great use. Even if you account for the mechanical troubles Ferrari have had I still think Schumi's leadership and ability to extract every point that the F2008 has in it would have seen the WDC over with 2 races to spare.

Not that Hamilton doesn't deserve the title. He's a truly gifted driver and is thoroughly deserving of his impending title but as a Ferrari fan this season has made me appreciate how much Michael Schumacher brought to the table every other Sunday.

[markabilly]

James Allen alluded to something on the weekend that has been nagging at me since about the half-way point of the season. And that is what could Michael Schumacher do with a car as good as the F2008?

Allen suggested that some where saying that the only reason Hamilton is even in the title hunt is because the Ferrari drivers have singularly failed to deliver the goods. I think there's some truth to this theory.

We all know how crappy a season Raikkonen's had. He's lost 16 points that I can think of through chucking the car at the scenery or another car. Spa - lost 8 points spinning out of 2nd. Singapore - lost 4 points running by hitting the wall while running 5th and Monaco - lost 4 points by ramming Sutil while running 5th. Can anybody see Schumi doing that? Those points would have clinched the WCC already and seen him still in contention for the WDC.

Massa hasn't lost as many points, just 8 (from memory) from throwing it off the road in Malaysia but those 8 points would see us with 1 point ball game with 1 race to play. Throw in a truly awful performance at Silverstone and you have the makings of a championship lost.

I have the feeling that even a 2006 vintage Schumi would have put Hamilton away this year. The F2008 is the better car and Schumi would have put it to great use. Even if you account for the mechanical troubles Ferrari have had I still think Schumi's leadership and ability to extract every point that the F2008 has in it would have seen the WDC over with 2 races to spare.

Not that Hamilton doesn't deserve the title. He's a truly gifted driver and is thoroughly deserving of his impending title but as a Ferrari fan this season has made me appreciate how much Michael Schumacher brought to the table every other Sunday.


If his old team, on the wall and in the pits and back at the factory, all and complete were running the show, instead of drivng down the pit lane with your hose flopping around, I think that the battle for the WDC might well be between Massa and Kimi

The same for last year.

Add in MS, and there is no question.

BUT MS only added into this year's team as it is currently made up? The result would still be...... :rotate: :imubash: :rotflmao: :arrows: :s pinhead:

[MrJan]

Ramming Sutil was a freak incident IMO. The car squirreled under breaking and I doubt that there was intent.

As for Schumi he would have done well but I'm not sure he'd have wrapped the title up like some think. When Hamilton has won the McLaren has usually been fairly dominant. The other question that you have to ask is how well Schumi would operate without Ross Brawn? I know that MS was an amzingly clever driver but without a decent crew chief he won't fulfil potential.

Also with Schumi in for Kimi then Lewis wouldn't have hit anyone at Canada ;) :p : :D

[wedge]

I have the feeling that even a 2006 vintage Schumi would have put Hamilton away this year.

Don't forget about Monaco 2006. When push comes to shove Schumi will resort to some malicious tactic though I think at the very least it would've been Mansell vs. Senna all over again playing chicken into a corner to see who would lift and concede.

[AJP]

Hindsight is a beautiful things!

[Valve Bounce]

James Allen alluded to something on the weekend that has been nagging at me since about the half-way point of the season. And that is what could Michael Schumacher do with a car as good as the F2008?

Allen suggested that some where saying that the only reason Hamilton is even in the title hunt is because the Ferrari drivers have singularly failed to deliver the goods. I think there's some truth to this theory.

.

Let me get this straight:You listen to James Allen? :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

James Allen alluded to something on the weekend that has been nagging at me since about the half-way point of the season. And that is what could Michael Schumacher do with a car as good as the F2008?

Allen suggested that some where saying that the only reason Hamilton is even in the title hunt is because the Ferrari drivers have singularly failed to deliver the goods. I think there's some truth to this theory.

We all know how crappy a season Raikkonen's had. He's lost 16 points that I can think of through chucking the car at the scenery or another car. Spa - lost 8 points spinning out of 2nd. Singapore - lost 4 points running by hitting the wall while running 5th and Monaco - lost 4 points by ramming Sutil while running 5th. Can anybody see Schumi doing that? Those points would have clinched the WCC already and seen him still in contention for the WDC.

Massa hasn't lost as many points, just 8 (from memory) from throwing it off the road in Malaysia but those 8 points would see us with 1 point ball game with 1 race to play. Throw in a truly awful performance at Silverstone and you have the makings of a championship lost.

I have the feeling that even a 2006 vintage Schumi would have put Hamilton away this year. The F2008 is the better car and Schumi would have put it to great use. Even if you account for the mechanical troubles Ferrari have had I still think Schumi's leadership and ability to extract every point that the F2008 has in it would have seen the WDC over with 2 races to spare.

Not that Hamilton doesn't deserve the title. He's a truly gifted driver and is thoroughly deserving of his impending title but as a Ferrari fan this season has made me appreciate how much Michael Schumacher brought to the table every other Sunday.

I was thinking that Alonso of 2006 vintage could also win the championship in this years F2008. Both MS and FA were pretty flawless that year.

[Hawkmoon]

Hindsight is a beautiful things!

It's not really hindsight, though I guess it has played a part. It's more a feeling of frustration at Raikkonen in particular for a litany of errors and lacklustre performances that brought to the fore just how much Ferrari were spolied by Schumacher's talent, leadership and committment.


Let me get this straight:You listen to James Allen? :rolleyes:

I try not to! ;)

His comment that "some" in the pitlane felt the Ferrari drivers weren't getting the best out of the car just echoed my own feelings. I doubt Allen personally feels that way due to his man-crush on Hamilton.


I was thinking that Alonso of 2006 vintage could also win the championship in this years F2008. Both MS and FA were pretty flawless that year.

Yeah, I hadn't considered Alonso but his driving this year has been very good, even when the Renault sucked at the start of the year. I'm sure Hamilton is grateful that he hasn't had to fight Alonso in a Ferrari this year. Then again, considering Hamilton's, shall we say "confidence", maybe not. :D

[Areez2006]

Every time they show Schumacher at races, he always looks so eager to be in the field.

I throw this question out there: If just for a year would you sign him, keeping in mind he'll be 40 this January?

[Valve Bounce]

I try not to! ;)

His comment that "some" in the pitlane felt the Ferrari drivers weren't getting the best out of the car just echoed my own feelings. I doubt Allen personally feels that way due to his man-crush on Hamilton.
. :D Before the last two races, word was that the Ferrari's tyres did not perform that well when the temperatures were not high. Under the circumstances, I don't think it fair for James Allen to opine that "some in pitlane felt the Ferrari drivers weren't getting the best out of the cars", whatever that means.
I have more faith in what Martin says as he not only knows from personal experience, he keeps in touch with developments in F1.

I have always felt that James Allen's job is to make a lot of noise with his commentary so that there wouldn't be stunned silence from the commentary box. That means he has to make up stories as the race progresses just to give Martin a break and/or to catch his breath. I think James Allen's "Xylophone effect explanation" when cars come closer together on the slower corners is exactly what I mean. Fortunately, Martin corrected that was the "concertina effect".

I think the Ferrari drivers were trying as hard as possible in the past two races but were just not up to winning the two races. Now the belief is that Ferrari and especially Massa goes extremely well as history as shown in Brazil. Well, if the Ferraris are both faster than Lewis, then he should just follow them home and not resort to something stupid.

[CaptainRaiden]

I knew this was going to be the general feeling between Schumacher fans and was going to get brought up some time, because of course they miss their hero.

But people seem to forget the single most important factor, and that is that the Ferrari 248F1 was the fastest car in 2006, maybe not at the start of the season, but definitely for the rest of 2006.

It's not as if Schumacher was flawless, he made mistakes, a couple, or maybe even blatant unethical tactics. Don't ever forget Monaco. Massa was beginning to gain confidence and beat him on occassions. Ferrari lost both the drivers and constructors title even after Alonso's two retirements in Shanghai and Monza and Fisichella's disappointing year.

Don't base all your assumptions based on 2004, because that was a tremendous dream year for Ferrari. Do not also forget that they had the supreme F2004, the best car that year by a country mile. Also, that was a team of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn. Two of whom are absent now.

Also, Ferrari tactical crew headed by Domenicali have made stupid errors after stupid errors. And if you really think the F2008 is such a supreme car as you say, then Hamilton's 5 victories this season must be magical! So, in a way are you implying that Hamilton is the best driver on the planet right now?

Todt and Kimi won the 2007 championship, after Ferrari failed to do so in 2006, and that too without the technical genius of Ross Brawn in 2007. ALSO, more importantly, the F2007 wasn't clearly the faster car. The Mclaren shared that in many races where they had a clear advantage, i.e. Monaco and Monza.

So, I don't get what the problem is. Everyone has a bad year.

[F1boat]

In my opinion Michael would have won the championship if he was still competing and if -and it is a big IF - he was still fit for such challenge. I mean, he is not getting any younger. But Michael in his prime would have been champion, I am sure.

[Valve Bounce]

In my opinion Michael would have won the championship if he was still competing and if -and it is a big IF - he was still fit for such challenge. I mean, he is not getting any younger. But Michael in his prime would have been champion, I am sure.

So was Wayne Carey!!

[ArrowsFA1]

James Allen alluded to something on the weekend that has been nagging at me since about the half-way point of the season. And that is what could Michael Schumacher do with a car as good as the F2008?
I'm sure MS's ego may get a little boost from those who think he woud have won the title for Ferrari this year, and James Allen's books about him may sell a few more copies as well :p

[leopard]

Only accident like last year can refrain McLaren from this year's win. They should have been heading for the second titles this year if only they can manage the drivers convinced to get trough one of them to the title. This year Mclaren only focussed only on a driver, this worthy meaning of full support from team will suffice accompanying Hamilton in just a step forward for the title.

Sounds ironic that their car is not the fastest one among those competing in the grid. This would be repetition of Renault victory two seasons backwards. The essence is without impugning the convincing titles Schummi gifted to the team, considering he was a driver with such broadest talent, he still has possibility to being superior, but todays competition is apparently harder, is not as easy as used to be, holier than thou...

[555-04Q2]

I throw this question out there: If just for a year would you sign him, keeping in mind he'll be 40 this January?

Yes, even at 39 he is probably fitter than most drivers out there, he does seem to be carrying more muscle bulk though compared to when he was racing.

[ioan]

I can only imagine the bashing fest around here if MS was back. He's not even driving and people are already bashing him, just look at this thread. :D

[wedge]

I knew this was going to be the general feeling between Schumacher fans and was going to get brought up some time, because of course they miss their hero.

But people seem to forget the single most important factor, and that is that the Ferrari 248F1 was the fastest car in 2006, maybe not at the start of the season, but definitely for the rest of 2006.

It's not as if Schumacher was flawless, he made mistakes, a couple, or maybe even blatant unethical tactics. Don't ever forget Monaco. Massa was beginning to gain confidence and beat him on occassions. Ferrari lost both the drivers and constructors title even after Alonso's two retirements in Shanghai and Monza and Fisichella's disappointing year.

Don't base all your assumptions based on 2004, because that was a tremendous dream year for Ferrari. Do not also forget that they had the supreme F2004, the best car that year by a country mile. Also, that was a team of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn. Two of whom are absent now.

Also, Ferrari tactical crew headed by Domenicali have made stupid errors after stupid errors. And if you really think the F2008 is such a supreme car as you say, then Hamilton's 5 victories this season must be magical! So, in a way are you implying that Hamilton is the best driver on the planet right now?

Todt and Kimi won the 2007 championship, after Ferrari failed to do so in 2006, and that too without the technical genius of Ross Brawn in 2007. ALSO, more importantly, the F2007 wasn't clearly the faster car. The Mclaren shared that in many races where they had a clear advantage, i.e. Monaco and Monza.

So, I don't get what the problem is. Everyone has a bad year.

:up:

[Spoonbender]

Let me get this straight:You listen to James Allen? :rolleyes:

Lol :)

[Corny]

on the 'normal' races like Sepang, Bahrain, Barcelona, France etc. Michael would not have got more points, maybe even less.. BUT, on races like Australia, Canada, Silverstone, Belgium and Monza he would've got far more points than Kimi and Felipe has done..

[Tazio]

I throw this question out there: If just for a year would you sign him,


Does a fish fart underwater? :dozey:

[Tazio]

I knew this was going to be the general feeling between Schumacher fans and was going to get brought up some time, because of course they miss their hero.

But people seem to forget the single most important factor, and that is that the Ferrari 248F1 was the fastest car in 2006, maybe not at the start of the season, but definitely for the rest of 2006.

It's not as if Schumacher was flawless, he made mistakes, a couple, or maybe even blatant unethical tactics. Don't ever forget Monaco. Massa was beginning to gain confidence and beat him on occassions. Ferrari lost both the drivers and constructors title even after Alonso's two retirements in Shanghai and Monza and Fisichella's disappointing year.

Don't base all your assumptions based on 2004, because that was a tremendous dream year for Ferrari. Do not also forget that they had the supreme F2004, the best car that year by a country mile. Also, that was a team of Schumacher, Todt and Brawn. Two of whom are absent now.

Also, Ferrari tactical crew headed by Domenicali have made stupid errors after stupid errors. And if you really think the F2008 is such a supreme car as you say, then Hamilton's 5 victories this season must be magical! So, in a way are you implying that Hamilton is the best driver on the planet right now?

Todt and Kimi won the 2007 championship, after Ferrari failed to do so in 2006, and that too without the technical genius of Ross Brawn in 2007. ALSO, more importantly, the F2007 wasn't clearly the faster car. The Mclaren shared that in many races where they had a clear advantage, i.e. Monaco and Monza.

So, I don't get what the problem is. Everyone has a bad year.

There are three reasons Ferrari, and Mike lost in 2006
1; The car was a dog for the first half of the season.
2: Mike's Engine expired at Suzuka while leading the penultiment round of the season.
3: Fred is no slouch, and a pretty dog-blasted-good country racer!

IMHO Freds race at Monza that year was the stuff that dreams are made of. Unfortunately his engine detonated with 14 laps to go.

BTW I will put that spectacular detonation up against any of KImi's! :p :

That’s what I recollect! :beer:

[Tazio]

He's ruling out poor driver performance! He's talking like a man who has a block on one side of his head and a sword on the other!
I mean come on; you have one race left in the season, and expect us to believe you are mystified by the performance of the F2008 Contender?
If he doesn't have it sorted out in less than a fortnight, that sword will surely fly. :eek:

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=10&year=2008&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=33538
Grt Mike in that rig for 15 laps and things will just seem to sort themselves out! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

He's ruling out poor driver performance! He's talking like a man who has a block on one side of his head and a sword on the other!
I mean come on; you have one race left in the season, and expect us to believe you are mystified by the performance of the F2008 Contender?
If he doesn't have it sorted out in less than a fortnight, that sword will surely fly. :eek:

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=10&year=2008&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=33538
Grt Mike in that rig for 15 laps and things will just seem to sort themselves out! ;)

The way I saw it, Lewis and his McLaren were faster than Massa's Ferrari - no question. Whether it was Lewis, something McLaren found to improve the balance of the car, or the tyres is the unknown variable factor. But that is motor racing, that is F1. There are so many factors that influence the performance of a car, like track and ambient temperatures, tyre compounds, slight alteration in aero, setting up of the car, ....................

Perhaps if Lewis had not damaged his car or flat spotted his tyre at Fuji, he could have also had the faster car. After all, he did qualify the thing on pole.

You be the judge!!!

Maybe if Ferrari hired ant as their test driver, and help set the cars up, they might have a faster car, just like bunsen had one year.

[Tazio]

The way I saw it, Lewis and his McLaren were faster than Massa's Ferrari - no question. Whether it was Lewis, something McLaren found to improve the balance of the car, or the tyres is the unknown variable factor. But that is motor racing, that is F1. There are so many factors that influence the performance of a car, like track and ambient temperatures, tyre compounds, slight alteration in aero, setting up of the car, ....................

Perhaps if Lewis had not damaged his car or flat spotted his tyre at Fuji, he could have also had the faster car. After all, he did qualify the thing on pole.

You be the judge!!!

Maybe if Ferrari hired ant as their test driver, and help set the cars up, they might have a faster car, just like bunsen had one year. All very valid points my man! :up:
Somehow I feel like at this point in the season if
Mike was driving, he would have gotten that thing dialed. The same way
Fred has gotten the Renault dialed. Kimi or Massa will never have to worry about being confused
with..............

[CaptainRaiden]

All very valid points my man! :up:
Somehow I feel like at this point in the season if
Mike was driving, he would have gotten that thing dialed. The same way
Fred has gotten the Renault dialed. Kimi or Massa will never have to worry about being confused
with..............

Wassup Taz man?! Good points. Maybe Schu would have been more consistent and scored points more consistently than all the title contenders this season, but I am not very sure he would have won it without his competitors having all the problems and penalties.

He did test the F2008 for a considerable amount of time. Maybe he gave wrong inputs to have wrong development on the car to prove that Ferrari made a mistake by letting him go. :p

[Tonieke]

Personaly i find this discussion a bit meaningless....Way to many "what if's"...although some seems to be pretty convinced MS would have donne so much better than both current Ferrari drivers.....well we will never know..You just can not compair one season with the other..you can not compair one car with the other....you can not even compair the team anymore as a lot have changed over the years...to name a few...and when you do want to look back to previous seasons..well maybe the competition in 2008 has been way thougher than in some of the previous seasons (also in the MS era)

[leopard]

Schu serves Ferrari input worthwhile, but one, did he recommend the right driver? :)

[Knock-on]

I think that at the time he retired, Alonso was at a similar level of performance to Schumy so if you put Alonso in the Ferrari, I think we have a realistic "real world" theory.

IMO, the Ferrari is the fastest car out there this year and the reason Hamilton is leading the WDC is a combination of driver and team getting the maximum out of the package whereas Ferrari, Massa and Kimi have shown some blistering pace but have not managed consistency.

The car is a great car but they haven't managed to realise it's potential whereas McLaren and Lewis have maximised their opportunities as have BMW and Kubica.

If there was a Schumacher or Alonso in the Ferrari and the team were performing at the level we know they can, then I think it would likely be a Redfest.

[Valve Bounce]

Schu serves Ferrari input worthwhile, but one, did he recommend the right driver? :)

Well, Ferrari were really not that interested in Ralfie!! :(

[F1boat]

I think that at the time he retired, Alonso was at a similar level of performance to Schumy so if you put Alonso in the Ferrari, I think we have a realistic "real world" theory.

IMO, the Ferrari is the fastest car out there this year and the reason Hamilton is leading the WDC is a combination of driver and team getting the maximum out of the package whereas Ferrari, Massa and Kimi have shown some blistering pace but have not managed consistency.

The car is a great car but they haven't managed to realise it's potential whereas McLaren and Lewis have maximised their opportunities as have BMW and Kubica.

If there was a Schumacher or Alonso in the Ferrari and the team were performing at the level we know they can, then I think it would likely be a Redfest.

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.

[Knock-on]

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.


Ret races are a good equaliser.

However, Massa in particular is a confidence driver. If he's near the front, he's quick but put him back and he struggles.

In Silverstone and a few other races, everyone's blames the car for lack of pace and I questioned that.

Then we saw how fast he was at Singapore but after a problem dropped him back, he loses all of his pace and gives up.

I think they have had a bit of a problem with Tyres but a good driver finds ways to get around problems with the car. The ferrari boys don't seem to be able to master challenges like Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and some others can.

[F1boat]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

[Garry Walker]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

Schumacher himself said that the F2008 is very difficult a car to drive in wet conditions. It is a superbly fast car when in right conditions, but when out of it, has loads of problems. In that regard, the McLaren car is much better. Much wider operating window.

At china the problem were too hard tyres and too low temperature. Ferraris strongest point, ability to save tyres, did not come into play anymore.


As for the topic - I was a big schumacher fan, but enough is enough. He is retired, will never come back and that`s it. He was the best in his time and most likely of all time, but if you put him in the car now, Felipe and kimi both would beat him. No point in dwelling in the past or how Schumacher would have done.

[F1boat]

I agree with you, Garry. At his prime, Michael could have bested anyone. At his prime, I think that he is significantly better driver than all contenders this season.
But time is something which can not be defeated :(

[Valve Bounce]

For me, the wet races are the reason that Lewis is leading the WDC. He is obviously a magnifecent driver in the rain and his team has a great setup in such races, unlike Ferrari, who are helpless in such conditions. They lost many points in Monte Carlo and especially in Silverstone.

God!! it must have been pouring in Shanghai :eek:

[ioan]

I think they have had a bit of a problem with Tyres but a good driver finds ways to get around problems with the car. The ferrari boys don't seem to be able to master challenges like Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and some others can.

Yeah, we all saw how Hamilton mastered the challenge when his tires and brakes weren't at the right temperature in qualifying in Monza.

Let's face it, when the conditions were right for him Massa won, and the same for Hamilton, but for the blunders (Lewy running into Kimi's back and Ferrari pi$$ing against the wind in Singapore).
None of them proved exceptional in adverse conditions for his car or his driving style.

[BDunnell]

On a slightly different note, has Schumacher's occasional presence on the pit wall had the slightest positive effect? I'm still rather dubious about the value of this continued involvement, or even what it entails.

As for the main thrust of the thread, I think he did exactly the right thing in retiring when he did, and that he should stay retired. Far better to go out at the top of your form than to stay on with the inevitable diminution of your skills at some point, even if you're a great multiple WDC.

[F1boat]

God!! it must have been pouring in Shanghai :eek:

Lewis had some tremendous dry races, but in them Ferrari didn't lose much, except in Oz, and they gained it back in Malaysia and Bahrain. But in the wet races they lost a lot.

[Knock-on]

I am not sure. Kimi was decent in the rain before this year. To me it is bizzare that he will suddenly lose his skill. I think that it is the car.

What I find bizzare is that there is no difference between the teams in wet or wet / dry conditions but the Ferrari package is obviously faster in the dry.

Felipe – 0, 0, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 1st, 13th 3rd, 17th, 1st, 1st, 6th, 13th 7th 2nd
Kimi – 8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 9th, 0, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 3rd, 0, 18th, 9th, 15th, 3rd, 3rd
Races – D, D, D, D, D, W/D, D, W/D, W, D, D, D, W/D, W/D, D, D, D
Lewis – 1st, 5th, 13th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 0, 10th, 1st, 1st, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 3rd, 12th, 1st
Heikki – 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 0, 12th, 8th, 9th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 1st, 4th, 10th, 2nd, 10th, 0, 0


Dry Average points – Mclaren 8.42 – Ferrari 9.42
Wet / Dry and Wet Average Points – Mclaren 9.2 – Ferrari 9.2

[ArrowsFA1]

On a slightly different note, has Schumacher's occasional presence on the pit wall had the slightest positive effect?
I think so...for Felipe Massa. I do think Massa needs a good support team around him to perform to his best, and I think that MS has been an important part of that support team for a few years.

JYS has often said he's amazed that F1 drivers do not seek the help of driver 'coaches'. In Felipe's case he has the ultimate coach :cool:

Kimi, on the other hand, couldn't give a **** whether MS is there or not :p :

[BDunnell]

I think so...for Felipe Massa. I do think Massa needs a good support team around him to perform to his best, and I think that MS has been an important part of that support team for a few years.

Fair point.



JYS has often said he's amazed that F1 drivers do not seek the help of driver 'coaches'. In Felipe's case he has the ultimate coach :cool:

Unfortunately, in JYS' case it led to him giving that infamous driving lesson to Jan Magnussen - hardly a confidence-booster...

[ArrowsFA1]

Unfortunately, in JYS' case it led to him giving that infamous driving lesson to Jan Magnussen - hardly a confidence-booster...
Ahhhh yes :laugh:

[Tazio]

I think so...for Felipe Massa. I do think Massa needs a good support team around him to perform to his best, and I think that MS has been an important part of that support team for a few years.

JYS has often said he's amazed that F1 drivers do not seek the help of driver 'coaches'. In Felipe's case he has the ultimate coach :cool:

Kimi, on the other hand, couldn't give a **** whether MS is there or not :p :Excellent observation! :up:
Considering Kimi is riding B!+ch for Massa in the last two races of this season,
perhaps Kimi could have benefited from Mike’s experience, strength, and hope! :dozey:

[ioan]

Excellent observation! :up:
Considering Kimi is riding B!+ch for Massa in the last two races of this season,
perhaps Kimi could have benefited from Mike’s experience, strength, and hope! :dozey:

True, but than there are cool people and intelligent people! ;)

[BDunnell]

Surely the truth is that people work differently, and what works for one person in terms of advice might be awful for another, no matter who is providing that advice.

[Tazio]

Surely the truth is that people work differently, and what works for one person in terms of advice might be awful for another, no matter who is providing that advice.Fair point!
That is why I used the term "perhaps"!

[Tazio]

I think that at the time he retired, Alonso was at a similar level of performance to Schumy so if you put Alonso in the Ferrari, I think we have a realistic "real world" theory.

IMO, the Ferrari is the fastest car out there this year and the reason Hamilton is leading the WDC is a combination of driver and team getting the maximum out of the package whereas Ferrari, Massa and Kimi have shown some blistering pace but have not managed consistency.

The car is a great car but they haven't managed to realise it's potential whereas McLaren and Lewis have maximised their opportunities as have BMW and Kubica.


If there was a Schumacher or Alonso in the Ferrari and the team were performing at the level we know they can, then I think it would likely be a Redfest.Have my eyes deceived me? :crazy:
Knockie you've gone soft! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

What I find bizzare is that there is no difference between the teams in wet or wet / dry conditions but the Ferrari package is obviously faster in the dry.

Felipe – 0, 0, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 5th, 1st, 13th 3rd, 17th, 1st, 1st, 6th, 13th 7th 2nd
Kimi – 8th, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 9th, 0, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 3rd, 0, 18th, 9th, 15th, 3rd, 3rd
Races – D, D, D, D, D, W/D, D, W/D, W, D, D, D, W/D, W/D, D, D, D
Lewis – 1st, 5th, 13th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 0, 10th, 1st, 1st, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 3rd, 12th, 1st
Heikki – 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 0, 12th, 8th, 9th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 1st, 4th, 10th, 2nd, 10th, 0, 0


Dry Average points – Mclaren 8.42 – Ferrari 9.42
Wet / Dry and Wet Average Points – Mclaren 9.2 – Ferrari 9.2

I'm confused :bigcry:
When you mix numbers with letters, I suffer from MDD











(Memory Deficit Disorder)

[555-04Q2]

Kimi, on the other hand, couldn't give a **** whether MS is there or not :p :

Judging by his season, I sometimes wonder if Kimi even gives a **** if HE is there or not ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Judging by his season, I sometimes wonder if Kimi even gives a **** if HE is there or not ;)

Well, I think he wants to keep the dunny handy, that's for sure.

[Tazio]

Well, I think he wants to keep the dunny handy, that's for sure.

Eleven on a scale of Ten! :p :
:laugh: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[Knock-on]

I'm confused :bigcry:
When you mix numbers with letters, I suffer from MDD


(Memory Deficit Disorder)


Stop being a d1ck :p

;)

[Knock-on]

Have my eyes deceived me? :crazy:
Knockie you've gone soft! :p :

Just being pragmatic.

The Ferrari is the best car out there but Lewis and McLaren are getting the best out of the car.

I would feel a little dissapointed with my team and drivers if I were a Ferrari fan.

[Tazio]

Just being pragmatic.

The Ferrari is the best car out there but Lewis and McLaren are getting the best out of the car.

I would feel a little dissapointed with my team and drivers if I were a Ferrari fan. I have to say I am. Especially Kimi.
But Since I fall under the auspicious of Tifosi. I will find conciliation
if they win the WCC going away! It aint over yet
Uh-oh Here it comes.
Fred would have cooked the field in that rig! ;)

[pino]

I would feel a little dissapointed with my team and drivers if I were a Ferrari fan.

knockie, a real tifoso stays and supports the Red Team in the good and the bad, you couldn't never be one of them :down: :p :

I am not disappointed at all :D

[Knock-on]

knockie, a real tifoso stays and supports the Red Team in the good and the bad, you couldn't never be one of them :down: :p :

I am not disappointed at all :D

Well, I can say I'm dissapointed in Honda and Button but still support them.

I was dissapointed in McLaren last year but accept they made mistakes without chucking them in the bin.

If I had to put my head in the sand and ignore the obvious then I guess I'm not Tifosi material ;)

[ioan]

knockie, a real tifoso stays and supports the Red Team in the good and the bad, you couldn't never be one of them :down: :p :

I am not disappointed at all :D

Not sure I agree with you.
All real fans can feel disappointed by the way the team, they are supporting, is doing the business.
Being disappointed when someone doesn't maximize their potential it's natural, IMO. Otherwise we are talking about fanaticism or denial or both.

[pino]

Well, I can say I'm dissapointed in Honda and Button but still support them.

I was dissapointed in McLaren last year but accept they made mistakes without chucking them in the bin.

If I had to put my head in the sand and ignore the obvious then I guess I'm not Tifosi material ;)

knockie, you were disappointed in Mclaren last year but you accepted their many mistakes , why shouldn't you/I accept Ferrari's many mistakes this year ?

[pino]

Not sure I agree with you.
All real fans can feel disappointed by the way the team, they are supporting, is doing the business.
Being disappointed when someone doesn't maximize their potential it's natural, IMO. Otherwise we are talking about fanaticism or denial or both.

All real fans must show some intelligence and must try to understand that their Team cannot win every single year. Especially when there's a new Management who can make mistakes due to a bit lack of experience. If Ferrari lose the driver title but retain the Constructors title, all real tifosi should be very happy and proud about it anyway.

I would :s mokin:

[Valve Bounce]

Well, I can say I'm disappointed in Honda and Button but still support them.

;)

Now here lies the rub. I can see no end to your tunnel.

On the other hand, I was a Super Aguri supporter, and proud of it. Especially when they were creaming the works team.

[ioan]

All real fans must show some intelligence and must try to understand that their Team cannot win every single year. Especially when there's a new Management who can make mistakes due to a bit lack of experience. If Ferrari lose the driver title but retain the Constructors title, all real tifosi should be very happy and proud about it anyway.

I would :s mokin:

Well, I wasn't dissapointed with Ferrari in 2005 but I am now.
Why is that?
Because in 2005 they did their best with a car that wasn't up to the task.
This season they are doing a job that is way under the car's potential.

PS: I'm intelligent enough not to question others intelligence when it is not required.

[pino]

PS: I'm intelligent enough not to question others intelligence when it is not required.

I am not ;)

[Knock-on]

I suppose that's the crux of the matter.

VB was rightly delighted that SA whipped the factory team because they punched way above their weight.

Honda also done a sterling job when Jenson finished 3rd in the championship behind the 2 Ferrari's but recently have dissapointed.

To be dissapointed in one's team does not mean you're going to stop supporting them or demand mass sackings but is an observation of how they are really doing.

[pino]

To be dissapointed in one's team does not mean you're going to stop supporting them or demand mass sackings but is an observation of how they are really doing.

knockie, how can you be disappointed by a Team who, with 1 race left still has a chance to win both Titles ? :crazy:

[Hawkmoon]

knockie, how can you be disappointed by a Team who, with 1 race left still has a chance to win both Titles ? :crazy:

Perhaps it's because they should have already won both titles? They've produced a car that, over the course of the season, has proven to be the quickest. Sure it's got it's flaws, like wet weather performance, but all in all it's a better car than it's chief rival.

I'll be happy with the WCC. But the frustrated fan in me feels that the championship double should have been achieved.

Besides, McLaren winning a championship always spoils my day. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

knockie, how can you be disappointed by a Team who, with 1 race left still has a chance to win both Titles ? :crazy:

Easy pino - Ferrari have thrown away chance after chance to wrap both championships up. If Super Aguri had done that, I would have been disappointed. :(

[pino]

Perhaps it's because they should have already won both titles? They've produced a car that, over the course of the season, has proven to be the quickest. Sure it's got it's flaws, like wet weather performance, but all in all it's a better car than it's chief rival.

I'll be happy with the WCC. But the frustrated fan in me feels that the championship double should have been achieved.

Besides, McLaren winning a championship always spoils my day. ;)

Mate, I am a young man ;) but I've learned that in life/sport many times things don't go they way they should go. Yes at the moment Ferrari has the best car, but probably not the best Management and as we say in Italy " None borns professor (if you know what I mean) we must give them time and a chance to be as good as the old Management. I am extremly glad that Montezemolo understands that and has full confidence in his Team Management :up:


Easy pino - Ferrari have thrown away chance after chance to wrap both championships up. If Super Aguri had done that, I would have been disappointed. :(

Both what ? Last time I checked Ferrari was leading the Constructors by 11 points ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

He's on Inside Sport on BBC One, Monday 27th October at 2320.

Here's a preview (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/inside_sport/7680949.stm).

[pino]

He's on Inside Sport on BBC One, Monday 27th October at 2320.

Here's a preview (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tv_and_radio/inside_sport/7680949.stm).

ArrowsFA1, you wanna bet that after this interview most British Fans will start to love MS ? knockie included :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Both what ? Last time I checked Ferrari was leading the Constructors by 11 points ;)

Both titles pino - it should have been wrapped up ages ago. For a start, the buggerups in pit stops was a nightmare. If you read my previous post, I said they threw away chance after chance to wrap them up. And IF Ferrari don't win the WDC, they only have themselves to blame.

As I said before, and I will say it again: had it been Super Aguri throwing those chances away, I would have been disappointed.

[Knock-on]

Mate, I am a young man ;)

And just where would you like the bill sent for a new keyboard seeing as mine is now covered in tea that I nearly choked to death on :p

[pino]

And just where would you like the bill sent for a new keyboard seeing as mine is now covered in tea that I nearly choked to death on :p

Send me the bill along with a pic of you wearing a MS jersey and I will pay the bill :p :

[Knock-on]

Send me the bill along with a pic of you wearing a MS jersey and I will pay the bill :p :

This is as close as you're getting (and it was even taken in Florence)

Now, send the money :p

[pino]

This is as close as you're getting (and it was even taken in Florence)

Now, send the money :p

I can't read the " I love Michael " on it so...no money :p :

[pino]

btw thanks for showing some balls and post that pic of you wearing a Ferrari jersey in here :s mokin: :p :

[Knock-on]

btw thanks for showing some balls and post that pic of you wearing a Ferrari jersey in here :s mokin: :p :

I may still have that photo where I'm sitting on your knee if your not careful :p

This is as close as you're getting (and it was even taken in Florence)

Now, send the money :p


btw thanks for showing some balls and post that pic of you wearing a Ferrari jersey in here :s mokin: :p :

Surely the definition of having balls would have been to wear a Mclaren t-shirt while in Firenze?

Any tourist can put on a Ferrari shirt for the day.

[Knock-on]

Surely the definition of having balls would have been to wear a Mclaren t-shirt while in Firenze?

Any tourist can put on a Ferrari shirt for the day.

Do you really think I would wear a Ferrari shirt :laugh:

It's actually an England Rugby one if you look closely with the Logo imposed on :D

As for balls, it takes some to sit in a bar in Livorno near Firenze surrounded by about 50 dockers cheering on Lewis during the GP which he went on to win.

:p

[Valve Bounce]

Surely the definition of having balls would have been to wear a Mclaren t-shirt while in Firenze?

.

Try sitting behind the goals with the Collingwood cheer squad and then cheer for the opposition. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ97CfUD_HE