DonkeyS of the race

[donKey jote]

We might need a poll :p

Lewis - for donkeying at the start ?
Massa - for donkeying into Lewis and Seb ?
Webber - for his hopeless donkey defence against Massa ?
Alonso - for being so lucky ?
Renault - for cheating ?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[F1boat]

Hamilton for his impatience. This is not the way you win championships.

[Ranger]

Hamilton and Massa who both threw away golden opportunities for points and were rightly penalised. Good entertainment though!

[gloomyDAY]

Hamilton and Massa.

Pissing away another chance at the title. Morons!

[Marshall]

Yeah if this keeps up Robert will win the Championship.

[christophulus]

Hamilton and Massa.

Pissing away another chance at the title. Morons!

My thoughts exactly - and they can't relax because another bad race for them might just see Kubica getting a bit too close for comfort..

[ShiftingGears]

Hamilton - for driving overaggressively when he didn't need to.
Massa - for being spacially inept.

[truefan72]

a bad start doesn't make you a donkey. You still have 67 laps to do something.

however, taking out your championship rival and whilst doing that blowing your own race, followed with a projected 10 grid penalty for the next race seems like a true donkey.

[gloomyDAY]

DC wrecked again and linked up with Nakajima.

I know it wasn't DC's fault, but his name just feels obligatory in this thread.

[F1boat]

a bad start doesn't make you a donkey. You still have 67 laps to do something.

however, taking out your championship rival and whilst doing that blowing your own race, followed with a projected 10 grid penalty for the next race seems like a true donkey.

Do not give the penalties before the FIA unless you plan to challenge Max for his job next year ;)

[truefan72]

Hamilton - for driving overaggressively when he didn't need to.
Massa - for being spacially inept.

hamilton's "over aggressive" drive didn't ruin his race, he adjusted to the lap one fracas and went about his business of racing. He recovered well and just passed massa when mass decided to crash into him.

I'm not sure what you folks wanted him to do, sit behind massa for the rest of the race and just stroll around the track. He didn't do anything untoward, and even passed massa cleanly. it wasn't over aggressive, it was the type of driving that wins you championships, not letting them fall down on you.

[truefan72]

Do not give the penalties before the FIA unless you plan to challenge Max for his job next year ;)

you know what. I have little confidence that the stewards will give massa a penalty. They will find some grey area loophole to wiggle out of this one.

They had enough time to analyze the situation and bring him in, but they did neither. So I am not really confident that their bias won;t come into play post race.

[F1boat]

hamilton's "over aggressive" drive didn't ruin his race, he adjusted to the lap one fracas and went about his business of racing. He recovered well and just passed massa when mass decided to crash into him.

I'm not sure what you folks wanted him to do, sit behind massa for the rest of the race and just stroll around the track. He didn't do anything untoward, and even passed massa cleanly. it wasn't over aggressive, it was the type of driving that wins you championships, not letting them fall down on you.

No, it's not. Championships are won with patient and smart driving. Like Alonso in 2005. Like Kimi last year. Not trying to win everything immediately. Not trying to bully fellow drivers out of your way, as Lewis has done during his career so far.
Sooner or later, one of his rivals had to show him - "you can't bully me, b***ard".
It was Massa.
At last.

[samuratt]

Massa closely followed by Hamilton

[F1boat]

you know what. I have little confidence that the stewards will give massa a penalty. They will find some grey area loophole to wiggle out of this one.

They had enough time to analyze the situation and bring him in, but they did neither. So I am not really confident that their bias won;t come into play post race.

They are not biased. If they were they would have declared Massa/Hamilton accident as "race accident" and allow Massa to score 5 or more points.

[pino]

Hamilton for that crazy start and brake at the first turn :crazy:
Webber deserves a mention too :s :

[ShiftingGears]

hamilton's "over aggressive" drive didn't ruin his race, he adjusted to the lap one fracas and went about his business of racing. He recovered well and just passed massa when mass decided to crash into him.

I'm not sure what you folks wanted him to do, sit behind massa for the rest of the race and just stroll around the track. He didn't do anything untoward, and even passed massa cleanly. it wasn't over aggressive, it was the type of driving that wins you championships, not letting them fall down on you.

His problem was the move at the start. He didn't, as JA put it, need to try to win the championship at the first corner. Also flat-spotted both his front tyres. The rest of the race was fine, but he'd already done the damage.

[truefan72]

His problem was the move at the start. He didn't, as JA put it, need to try to win the championship at the first corner. Also flat-spotted both his front tyres. The rest of the race was fine, but he'd already done the damage.

he was the pole sitter and raced into the first corner. I am not sure at which point he should have slowed down with Kubica Alonso and Massa on his back , with Raikkonen looking to pass him and Kovaleinen right there as well.

If he had slowed down, he would have gotten hit by one of thoise guys, or gotten passed by half the field. His choice was to fight for position and then move on with the race from there on out.

He and raikkonen weere racing both braked late, Kimi tried to pass on the outside, Hamilton at that point had Alonso, kubica and Kovy by him already and mass in tow. He went a bit wide, so did raikkonen and that was that. After the first turn he lost a position to massa, but by the 2nd lap he regained his momentum and passed massa, when massa decided to hit him.

If Massa had not hit him, he would have gone on and probably passed Kovaleien too, then kovaleienen would have tried to do his job and hold up massa as log as he could.

Soon enough he would have settled in and decided whether or not to challenge Kubica and Alonso, probably passing both within the next 10-15 laps.

Thats how things were playing out at the time the massa incident.

So barring a poor start, he made up for it well and was in a good position.

[Kevincal]

Donkey of the race is the Fuji tv director who cut out RIGHT as they showed Fernando walking down the hallway lined with Japanese babes! LOL..

Then Lewis. my gosh he screwed the start up for everyone. I swear he worries way too much about blocking people at the starts... If he would just concentrate on what's AHEAD of him...jeez...

PS - TrueHAMILTONFan72, your manlove for hamilton is sickening... He can do no wrong in your eyes. You're about as bad as Peter Hamilton of Speed tv. ;)

[ShiftingGears]

he was the pole sitter and raced into the first corner. I am not sure at which point he should have slowed down with Kubica Alonso and Massa on his back , with Raikkonen looking to pass him and Kovaleinen right there as well.

If he had slowed down, he would have gotten hit by one of thoise guys, or gotten passed by half the field. His choice was to fight for position and then move on with the race from there on out. .

I doubt there somehow would've been a massive crash if he had taken the corner properly. I don't know what the point is in arguing, as Hamilton himself admitted it was a mistake.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71343

[F1boat]

Donkey of the race is the Fuji tv director who cut out RIGHT as they showed Fernando walking down the hallway lined with Japanese babes! LOL..

That was veeery cool!

[ioan]

Hamilton - for driving overaggressively when he didn't need to.
Massa - for being spacially inept.

Says the guy who didn't see the race.

[ioan]

a bad start doesn't make you a donkey. You still have 67 laps to do something.

however, taking out your championship rival and whilst doing that blowing your own race, followed with a projected 10 grid penalty for the next race seems like a true donkey.

Tell us again about that penalty you are expecting so much! :p :

[jens]

This is an incredibly funny season! Nobody wants to win the title. Hamilton, Massa and Räikkönen like cock-ups plus BMW doesn't want to improve the car.

My biggest concern about Hamilton has been his ability to handle the pressure in the closing stages of the season and again his actions in Turn1 proved there are serious worries in this area. To his fortune main rivals are underperforming too. Unlike 2007 we have already got two title contenders, who are cracking under the pressure. :laugh:


DC wrecked again and linked up with Nakajima.

I know it wasn't DC's fault, but his name just feels obligatory in this thread.

:laugh: Yeah, DC is reaching top form at the end of his career - managed to hit solid things already after the first corner!

[ioan]

you know what. I have little confidence that the stewards will give massa a penalty.

:rotflmao:

[ioan]

Donkey of the race is the Fuji tv director who cut out RIGHT as they showed Fernando walking down the hallway lined with Japanese babes! LOL..

Then Lewis. my gosh he screwed the start up for everyone. I swear he worries way too much about blocking people at the starts... If he would just concentrate on what's AHEAD of him...jeez...

PS - TrueHAMILTONFan72, your manlove for hamilton is sickening... He can do no wrong in your eyes. You're about as bad as Peter Hamilton of Speed tv. ;)

Excellent! :) :rotflmao:

[spudrsca]

Hamilton for that crazy start and brake at the first turn :crazy:
Webber deserves a mention too :s :

I don't know why you mention Webber, I think that Massa was very crazy to pass at the inside of Webber with very little room, he even passes the whitel lanes of the track.

[Valve Bounce]

We might need a poll :p


Webber - for his hopeless donkey defence against Massa ?


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

That's not fair, really. By choosing a one stop strategy, Mark had to use the softer tyres for half the race, and they were buggered long before Massa came up to him - he didn't have a chance to go any faster.

[Bradley]

"Flipping" Hamilton who's traditionally turning himself into a laughing stock at the end of the season.

[Dave B]

Massa for cutting a chicane and hitting Hamilton, then for colliding with a totally innocent Bordais.

Honourable mention to Lewis for overcooking it at the start.

[donKey jote]

That's not fair, really. By choosing a one stop strategy, Mark had to use the softer tyres for half the race, and they were buggered long before Massa came up to him - he didn't have a chance to go any faster.
I know they were well cooked, that's why I didn't see the point in him defending his pretty hopeless position in that manner... to me it looked a bit dodgy, and although I don't have much time at all for (Mickey :p : ) Massa, I wouldn't have liked to see him crash out as a result.

[ioan]

I'll give it to Lewy for being 1 lap down on Fernando by his own doing! That was priceless!

[woody2goody]

No, it's not. Championships are won with patient and smart driving. Like Alonso in 2005. Like Kimi last year. Not trying to win everything immediately. Not trying to bully fellow drivers out of your way, as Lewis has done during his career so far.
Sooner or later, one of his rivals had to show him - "you can't bully me, b***ard".
It was Massa.
At last.

Did Michael Schumacher win 7 championships by finishing second or backing down to his rivals? No. So neither should Hamilton. You may have forgotten during your unnecessary rant, that Massa single-handedly ruined two people's races, and the FIA only gave Lewis the penalty for the start because they HAD to give Felipe his deserved penalty for crashing into Hamilton.

Like it or not, Lewis would have got past Massa if Felipe had stuck to the track and not the grass. You know, Lewis could have easily taken this cowardly route against Raikkonen in Belgium, but elected not to crash into his opponent.

In fact, it was Massa and not Hamilton that was far too aggressive. I would say this if any driver was in Massa's place by the way, just so I don't get accused of 'bumming' Hamilton.

Also, Bourdais' career could be ruined by not picking up points thanks to that ridiculous penalty which would have been laughed at 2 years ago.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'll give it to Lewy for being 1 lap down on Fernando by his own doing! That was priceless!
Awwwwww, c'mon ioan give credit where it's due to Massa and the FIA stewards for the part they played :p :laugh:

[ioan]

Awwwwww, c'mon ioan give credit where it's due to Massa and the FIA stewards for the part they played :p :laugh:

I won't go down to your level! :D :rotflmao:
Still you can ask Bourdais, he will surely agree with you! :laugh:

[ioan]

Like it or not, Lewis would have got past Massa if Felipe had stuck to the track and not the grass. You know, Lewis could have easily taken this cowardly route against Raikkonen in Belgium, but elected not to crash into his opponent.

Good joke! :rotflmao:

[jens]

Renault - for cheating ?


Yeah, them too. They complained about the lack of engine power, but it turns out there is not much wrong with the engine. :laugh:

[CaptainRaiden]

he was the pole sitter and raced into the first corner. I am not sure at which point he should have slowed down with Kubica Alonso and Massa on his back , with Raikkonen looking to pass him and Kovaleinen right there as well.

OK, first of all, Raikkonen had already passed him before the first corner, he was AHEAD, unless you were watching some other race. Hamilton tried desperately to get the position back, braked way too hard and late for comfort, lost control, flat spotted his tyres and forced Kimi off the track, and hence the penalty.


If he had slowed down, he would have gotten hit by one of thoise guys, or gotten passed by half the field. His choice was to fight for position and then move on with the race from there on out.

If he had slowed down, he would've been second and would still have a chance to take the lead on the track later on the track or in the pitstops, but instead he cocked up his race in way which saw him out of the points. Today was a display of desperation and hotheadedness on Hamilton's part, nothing more, nothing less.


He and raikkonen weere racing both braked late, Kimi tried to pass on the outside, Hamilton at that point had Alonso, kubica and Kovy by him already and mass in tow. He went a bit wide, so did raikkonen and that was that.

Huh? I'm sorry, but the race we're talking about is Fuji 2008. First of all Kimi did not lose control under braking like Lewis. Lewis lost complete control and forced Kimi to go wide as well. The only way Kimi would have made that corner was if he would hit Lewis. There is aggressive driving and then there is stupid driving.


If Massa had not hit him, he would have gone on and probably passed Kovaleien too, then kovaleienen would have tried to do his job and hold up massa as log as he could.

True. Of course Massa is to be blamed for the second incident. He could have not gone off track and avoided to punt Lewis out of the race. The second incident was Massa's fault a 100%.

Both of them displayed how NOT to drive with 3 races left in a championship. Hence, both of them are Donkeys of the race. Massa a bigger donkey though.

[gm99]

Hamilton for still not knowing that you don't win a race, much less a championship, in the first corner. If he had just let Kimi lead, he would still have been second or third at worst, but ahead of Massa, which at this stage of the championship should be all that counts for him.
However, I don't think he should have been handed a penalty for out-breaking himself. Nor do I think that Bourdais deserved his penalty later in the race.

So the real donkeys of the race are once again the race stewards :p

[harsha]

Hamilton's move was IDIOTIC.....and I'm glad he got penalized for that...

i have a feeling Massa's move on Hamilton was deliberate......was reminded of the Schumi - JV incident in Jerez 97(although it was the last race of the year in a winner take all battle)...Massa hit Hamilton who was almost a full cars length ahead of him...going off track despite Hamiton leaving enough space for him...

[Dave B]

I can't think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out. Such a move would only be worth it if Felipe could guarantee no damage to his own car. When you're behind on points there's absolutely no logic to such a move.

Plus, more importantly, I don't believe that Massa is a dirty driver.

[CaptainRaiden]

Plus, more importantly, I don't believe that Massa is a dirty driver.

Give him some time. ;)

[christophulus]

I can't think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out. Such a move would only be worth it if Filepe could guarantee no damage to his own car. When you're behind on points there's absolutely no logic to such a move.

Plus, more importantly, I don't believe that Massa is a dirty driver.

I also don't believe that Massa hit Hamilton deliberately, but his explanation of events doesn't seem quite accurate

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71364

Hamilton pushed him onto the gravel? I'm not so sure..

On a lighter note, Massa does say at the end that he and Hamilton are on good terms, which is nice to know and it'll hopefully stay that way through the final two races!

Edit: OK, Ioan beat me to it :)

http://btccpages.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130017

[ojciec dyrektor]

Hamilton's move was IDIOTIC.....and I'm glad he got penalized for that...


FIA didn't ban idiotic moves. :)

I don't understand why so many fans wants to penalize everybody (except favourite driver) for everything.

[VkmSpouge]

Lewis Hamilton: When a cool head was needed and playing the percentage game was required, Hamilton left his head on the start line and went banzai. I hope this race serves as a lesson to him on how he should try to win a championship.

Race stewards: There should have been no penalties in this race.

[Nikki Katz]

I think I'd have to give that to Hamilton for his first lap. I know that it's easier said than done, but he didn't need to get in front of Raikkonen. Instead, he nearly drove into his own teammate before completely missing the corner, making pretty much the whole field take evasive action.

Massa wasn't great either though. The Hamilton punt was ridiculous and the Bourdais spin wasn't much better.

[superocean]

Donkey was Hamilton for sure. Mess up with a bad start and the mess up the whole field with a bad corner leading to at least 4 cars off the track. I'm sure DC enjoyed the cars in front of him getting all crazy. DC = Vettle at the begining of the year. Vettle now Webber at the beginning of the year. Webber = slowly slowing for some reason even though with Renault engine they should be so bad. What was Nick's problem anyway? New contract so take another 10 race sleep before questions are asked next year and then he'll find some more speed? Quick Nick is now Mysteriously unexplainable Nick.

[harsha]

I can't think that Massa deliberately tried to take Hamilton out. Such a move would only be worth it if Felipe could guarantee no damage to his own car. When you're behind on points there's absolutely no logic to such a move.

Plus, more importantly, I don't believe that Massa is a dirty driver.

i'm saying that i think Massa's got a brainfade when he saw broke late and saw Hamilton going past him...the drive through penalty wasn't applied to Hamilton ...i think in that moment of madness,Massa deliberately "rammed" into Hamilton..he just didn't want Hamilton to get ahead of him,he wasn't thinking about the consequences...

cause there is no justification of going on a kerb "after you've outbraked yourself" to try and overtake the guy when he's clearly ahead of you...

anyway just plain speculation from my end

[markabilly]

Yeah if this keeps up Robert will win the Championship.


And achieve again the ambitous aims of beemer..........

[Nikki Katz]

Oh, yes, I forgot Heidfeld. What was all that about???

[PSfan]

Donkeys of the race: Tie : Stewerts for being overly penalty happy, I'm expecting to receive a 25s penalty for writing this, and not spell-checking...

Hamilton : For that wonderful first corner that even had he not been spun out by Massa would have still been lucky to get points due to his flat spotting his tires.

[harsha]

Donkeys of the race: Tie : Stewerts for being overly penalty happy, I'm expecting to receive a 25s penalty for writing this, and not spell-checking...

Hamilton : For that wonderful first corner that even had he not been spun out by Massa would have still been lucky to get points due to his flat spotting his tires.

i really doubt that....he was able to get ahead of Massa and was running at a quick pace

[ioan]

i'm saying that i think Massa's got a brainfade when he saw broke late and saw Hamilton going past him...the drive through penalty wasn't applied to Hamilton ...i think in that moment of madness,Massa deliberately "rammed" into Hamilton..he just didn't want Hamilton to get ahead of him,he wasn't thinking about the consequences...

Load of manure.

[yodasarmpit]

Massa and Hamilton share donkey of the race, Hamilton for srewing up turn one and Massa for taking out two drivers.

[PSfan]

i really doubt that....he was able to get ahead of Massa and was running at a quick pace

Was the tools at ITV that where claiming they looked at hammy's fronts and he had a wear spot on both fronts down to the chords....


You can doubt it all you want, I don't...

[wedge]

Load of manure.

For once I agree with you!

Considering the circumstances, you're fighting for the WDC, you probably won't get another good chance as that with races running out, Massa saw a gap and went for it. I don't blame him for trying.

An avoidable accident but not deliberate or malicious.

[ioan]

For once I agree with you!

Thanks!
I was banking on some common sense around here! I'm lucky there is still some left.

[ShiftingGears]

I change my opinion. The donkeys are the overzealous stewards who have absolutely no idea about what it's like to be a competitive racing driver. Appalling.

Hamilton didn't force Kimi off the track, and Bourdais didn't run into Massa. Bourdais had the racing line, Massa pushed his luck, and somehow Bourdais got the penalty for it. In no way was Bourdais deserving of that penalty.

[Valve Bounce]

I think I'd have to give that to Hamilton for his first lap. I know that it's easier said than done, but he didn't need to get in front of Raikkonen. Instead, he nearly drove into his own teammate before completely missing the corner, making pretty much the whole field take evasive action.



This is absolutely correct. Opinion before the start was that Ferrari's tyres would not cope well with the cool conditions. That should have been considered by McLaren and instructions should have been given to Hamilton to remain cool.

As it turned out, Massa was on the slower soft tyres on the third row at the start, so there was no need to even worry about him then. Kimi was not fighting Lewis for the title, and all Lewis had to do was tuck in behind Kimi after his poor start and he would have finished on the podium and with a points gain over his title opponent Massa.

As it turned out, Kimi was not that fast either, and it would have been possible for Hamilton to pass Kimi and actually score a win.

I agree with all those who say that Lewis just cannot handle the pressure towards the end of the season while in the lead. His rush of blood after Kimi got ahead of him at the start was :STUPID.

[raikk]

Massa clear cut #1 then Hamilton
special mention to Bourdais for not stuffing his car into the grass and/or wall to get out of Massa's way :rolleyes:

[Eki]

Hamilton and Massa.

Pissing away another chance at the title. Morons!
Yes, I really hope Kubica takes it from them.

[Valve Bounce]

Yes, I really hope Kubica takes it from them.

Yeah!! maybe he could win the last two races. That would be good then.

[pino]

This is absolutely correct. Opinion before the start was that Ferrari's tyres would not cope well with the cool conditions. That should have been considered by McLaren and instructions should have been given to Hamilton to remain cool.

As it turned out, Massa was on the slower soft tyres on the third row at the start, so there was no need to even worry about him then. Kimi was not fighting Lewis for the title, and all Lewis had to do was tuck in behind Kimi after his poor start and he would have finished on the podium and with a points gain over his title opponent Massa.

As it turned out, Kimi was not that fast either, and it would have been possible for Hamilton to pass Kimi and actually score a win.

I agree with all those who say that Lewis just cannot handle the pressure towards the end of the season while in the lead. His rush of blood after Kimi got ahead of him at the start was :STUPID.

I couldn't have said better, stupid move by Lewis that could cost him the title again :crazy: Before the race didn't He say He's better and stronger than last year ? :s

[janneppi]

Hamilton and Massa neck by neck in my books. Hamilton didn't have to push at the start but did. That just isn't smart, it seems he just can't help himself.
Massa lost his marbles when being passed and made a desperate move with outer wheels on the kerbs and inner wheels on the gravel, then he even managed to drive into Bourdais from the outside.

[Storm]

Hamilton and Massa both...
But Hamilton edges it slightly for hounding Alonso on his penultimate lap for "unlapping" himself...what an ego

[Shifter]

Despite Hamilton and Massa's best efforts, the donkey of the race award goes to the race stewards for the most apalling penalty I have ever been witness to in all my years of watching motorsport. Apparently they wanted Bourdais to disappear into thin air!!!!!!! This coming from someone who initially thought the Hamilton Spa penalty at least had some merit.

[Knock-on]

Lewis had a rubbish start but would have still scored a ruck of points if he hadn't been taken out by Massa who then went on to hit SB and drove dangerously in the Pit lane.

However, the Donkeys of the race are the Stewards yet again. The sport is now a joke because of the FIA's management.

[ShiftingGears]

Hamilton and Massa both...
But Hamilton edges it slightly for hounding Alonso on his penultimate lap for "unlapping" himself...what an ego

Ego, maybe...but what he did made sense.

[truefan72]

Hamilton and Massa both...
But Hamilton edges it slightly for hounding Alonso on his penultimate lap for "unlapping" himself...what an ego

yeah the nerve to try an salvage some points if anything were to occur upfield
LOL

[Sleeper]

The Stewards, again.

They seem to be making a habit of it this year.

[Storm]

yeah the nerve to try an salvage some points if anything were to occur upfield
LOL

I did not get at the time (or when I posted) that he was trying to salvage points so point noted!

Although in a dry race on the last lap I have never seen 3 cars fall off..which is what he would have needed to get in the points.