No 2009 Canadian Grand Prix

[ShiftingGears]

Not happy!

[blakebeatty]

Not happy!

Yep, this is ridiculous. I admit my Canadian bias, but this grand prix is fairly heavy in tradition, and additionally has been one of the most exciting grands prix in the last couple of years. As I read on the Planetf1 quotes, "What a coincidence... I am Canadian, and i was thinking of dropping F1"

[mwr120675]

This sucks

[cosmicpanda]

a shame.

[pino]

I can't believe they keep Valencia, Singapore and cancel Montreal, it's another commercial-decision...it's disgusting :down:

[leopard]

According to natural selection law, unfavorable heritable traits become less common, survivor are those manage to provide for themselves and for their intellectual successor... ;(

[Storm]

Its a classic track with lots of history now plus we see some good racing there..and the fans love it...so of course it has to go :\

Abu Dhabi? Don't we already have Bahrain which isn't too far away?
Its the same crap like when Germany or Italy had 2 races each.

I will wait till I see the track layout but I am very much against dropping established tracks like Montreal. Stupid call.

And on top the new race will be the final race of the season!!!!
Keep Japan or Brazil as the final GP of the season dammit!

[Marshall]

Its ridiculous. I love watching Canada - it produces good racing, and I love the track itself. Plus it means the FIA are cutting themselves out of the whole North American market.

[pino]

Its the same crap like when Germany or Italy had 2 races each.



And same crap now that Spain has 2 races :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Another one bites the dust :down:

[AndyRAC]

I can't believe they keep Valencia, Singapore and cancel Montreal, it's another commercial-decision...it's disgusting :down:

When is a decision in F1 not commercial? It is a business, not a sport.

Heritage and history can go hang as long money is to be made. :mad:

[leopard]

Dust In The Wind :up: ;)

[truefan72]

I can't believe they keep Valencia, Singapore and cancel Montreal, it's another commercial-decision...it's disgusting :down:


and add Abu Dhabi with their rich tradition in racing heritage.

Canada was one of my favorite tracks.

what a shame

[71minus2]

i'm not happy either, it was a good race track with walls at close proximity. It always seemed to draw a big crowd too.

Do you reckon the pikeys put the price of tarmac up? :-)

[SGWilko]

I am astounded, but frankly, this is F1 in the noughties, so I am not surprised in the least. How sad is that? :down:

We live in a society now, where the honest tax paying public is having to bolster the finances of the major Banks, who I might remind you not 18 months ago were posting £2bn profits. Money makes the world go round eh?

[PolePosition_1]

Very disappointing it normally produces a pretty good race. Hopefully the decision may be reversed as its only the provisional calender. We'll have to wait and see the reasoning behind this call.

[SGWilko]

We'll have to wait and see the reasoning behind this call.

I'll spare you the anxiety - its that paper folding stuff, that's why!

[Dave B]

How many times have we seen a provisional calendar released with a circuit missing, only to find it gets reinstated once they've completed some work which Bernie wanted?

Fingers crossed...

[V12]

A well-established track that routinely gives great racing, plenty of overtaking every year, and often throws up a few interesting results, gets canned to make way for some state-funded desert bowl.

Are we really surprised anymore?

[jens]

:down: Montreal is one of the best circuits, which produce good racing even without rain and safety cars. Maybe problems with tarmac this year may have had some influence in the decision.

Surely placing Abu Dhabi as the last race in the calendar is no coincidence. New circuit, night race, street circuit ... to take everything into account --> big possibility for a safety car and random results. So it's in the interest of FIA and Bernie that the season finale would create unpredicted results...

[Donney]

I can't believe they keep Valencia, Singapore and cancel Montreal, it's another commercial-decision...it's disgusting :down:


I completely agree with that.

[leopard]

Yeah, that's not only the tarmac which needs concerns, the track patched before the race was telling that the track needs maintenance.

The more night race of street circuit will enable more teams playing dark horse, drivers whose the talent is naturally sufficient to implement the smart strategy would have the closer opportunity to those driving excellent cars, the result would be more unpredictable.

I think Montreal will be back in use once the proper maintenance already in effect. Finger crossed and upturned...

[MAX_THRUST]

Surprised and a little gutted. Lets ditch all our F1 history for tracks that may have small crowds whereas CAnada is well supported and the fans are generally very knowledgable about racing.

CAnada is always a good race, champions wall, chicane, first corner mayhem, hairpin at the far end of the track. Two people who will be happy will be Alonso can't get the first turn right and Kubica who wont get asked about his huge crash all weekend before the race there....Oh and Lewis and Kimi. I enjoyed Singapore but I would drop the far east races for two in North America any day.

[wedge]

Can't say I'm not surprised. It's been on the cards for a while now so it was only a matter of time.

[ioan]

I thought they had an agreement with Bernie for a few more years.
Anyone who knows the details of the contract?

[Mark]

Another fantastic track goes. Proof if it were needed that the current heads of F1 need to be removed, and quickly, if the sport is to survive.

No race at all in North America now, now that is crazy.

[christophulus]

No comment from the GP organisers but Canadian authorities seem to confirm it's a commercial decision:

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=44181

What a shame, usually one of the best races on the calendar

[Bagwan]

A dude from the press in Montreal was just on the tube , CTV's Canada AM , saying they are expecting to meet the press at noon , with more details .
He speculated that it may be that the economics of Montreal's reported $20million fee pales in comparison to the new asian and middle eastern track fees in the order of $75million might make a guy(Bernie) think about dropping the contract unilaterally , agreeing to pay the damages because his pockets are bulging uncomfortably anyway .
He also mentioned the faint hope is that the August break might fit another race .
Some sites are reporting they had no idea this was to be until they read the newspaper yesterday morning .
CBC radio was all over it yesterday , saying that it was the largest sporting event held in Canada , and that roughly $100million dollars comes into the local economy as a result .

Montreal is in utter shock .

I admit a little surpise , as it was on the early version of the calendar , but mostly , I am just angry about it .


I await the press conference to hear the details with great anticipation .

The one I really want to hear speak about this is Jacques .
He will be the one to spell out the problem in plain words for all to understand .

[Brown, Jon Brow]

people who will be happy will be Kubica who wont get asked about his huge crash all weekend before the race there..

I'd think he'd want to go back to the scene of his first win. :p

[schmenke]

Well, my support of formula one has just dropped another peg... :s

[Roamy]

well this is very poor judgement - however the leaders of F1 are on a money grab and until they go expect this to continue. Also the tobacco advertising ban will now really take its toll on F1. As you will see emergency cost cutting is on the way and may not even help. I would also like to know the status of the contract in Canada but I think there was something on this from the promoter last year that was negative. And you people know full well what the "mop midget" will do if you confront him on any issue.

[blakebeatty]

These same geniouses dropped Spa from the calendar for a year. That was as rich with history as any track. I won't claim that Montreal is as classic as Spa, but it is not far off. It is certainly one of the old garde. I think that this is my breaking point, that I will enjoy a sleep in on saturday and sunday mornings instead.

[schmenke]

... I think that this is my breaking point, that I will enjoy a sleep in on saturday and sunday mornings instead.

Me too.

[F1boat]

I don't know why a track must be dropped if you are to add another, but I think that it is not a great decision.

[pino]

I don't know why a track must be dropped if you are to add another, but I think that it is not a great decision.

$$$$$$$$$$$$... that's why ;)

[Allyc85]

So p**sed off about this, I cant explain what I want to!

Bernie and Max really need to leave, NOW!!

[ioan]

And you people know full well what the "mop midget" will do if you confront him on any issue.

He has to leave. This was my opinion for a long time now. Bernie is detrimental to F1.

[tintop]

what an ab$olute whore.

[Allyc85]

He has to leave. This was my opinion for a long time now. Bernie is detrimental to F1.

Exactly, I dont think the sport would miss him at all. It literally is who can pay him the most, rather than whats best for the sport. Makes my blood boil, really does!!

[weeflyonthewall]

Its ridiculous. I love watching Canada - it produces good racing, and I love the track itself. Plus it means the FIA are cutting themselves out of the whole North American market.

No one has balls in F-1 anymore? Why don't the manufacturers step up and say something? Maybe a joint press conference in Japan that includes Honda, Toyota, Mercedes and BMW announcing their disappointment with this decision (and a few others cited).

[FIA]

No chances of it possibly coming back, what ever happened to the Wolf boss maybe he could invest in the GP?

[Nikki Katz]

This is really bad news. I admit that it was the first race I thought would be axed to make way for more in the middle east, but not until the contract ran out!

I think that it came about at the same time as enforced cost cutting measures as the teams couldn't agree, which I support as a constructor leaving F1 in the current economic condition would seriously harm it, several would ruin it; but surely that doesn't really make sense when we have a new race in Singapore!

Canada messed up with the tarmac a bit this year, and there were questions about safety last year, though frankly that could've happened just about anywhere. But it's still one of my favourite tracks. I would've liked the US GP to be reinstated so that it's not such a long trip for just one race. But that looks even less likely now.

[heelandtoe]

No one has balls in F-1 anymore? Why don't the manufacturers step up and say something? Maybe a joint press conference in Japan that includes Honda, Toyota, Mercedes and BMW announcing their disappointment with this decision (and a few others cited).

i'm hoping in vain for perhaps some pressure from the likes of BMW, Ferrari and Mercedes and others to help salvage the race. I still cannot fathom how F1 has no presence in the US, only the single largest and most important market for Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes, and now this to top it off! well done F1.

[agip55]

"There's a quote attributed to Ernest Hemingway when he said: 'There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." Eddie Irvine wrote in his column for The Guardian earlier this year saying "Formula 1 seems intent on trying to become a game." After seeing what has happened over the last year and now no Montreal, but we'll hold a "Mickey Mouse GP" outside Paris, Ernest it's not a sport, Eddie, it's not a game, it's a JOKE! I've cancelled my CAA Membership (AAA in the US) both FIA Members and have closed my ING Direct account. Both have been informed as to why. I call on my fellow Canadian F1 Fans to boycott any/all F1 sponsors.

[nigelred5]

Get used to it because I don't see the British GP lasting much longer either once they finally get around to giving India it's race. I'm suprised Brazil has managed to keep one as ling as they have.

[ioan]

"There's a quote attributed to Ernest Hemingway when he said: 'There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games." Eddie Irvine wrote in his column for The Guardian earlier this year saying "Formula 1 seems intent on trying to become a game." After seeing what has happened over the last year and now no Montreal, but we'll hold a "Mickey Mouse GP" outside Paris, Ernest it's not a sport, Eddie, it's not a game, it's a JOKE! I've cancelled my CAA Membership (AAA in the US) both FIA Members and have closed my ING Direct account. Both have been informed as to why. I call on my fellow Canadian F1 Fans to boycott any/all F1 sponsors.

You are boycotting the wrong entities.
We have to boycott Bernie.

[call_me_andrew]

This is an intelligence failure of massive proportoins!

They take F1 out of the entire North American market. They take away one of the races that gets the highest ratings in Europe. And they call it progress!

[Hawkmoon]

No one has balls in F-1 anymore? Why don't the manufacturers step up and say something? Maybe a joint press conference in Japan that includes Honda, Toyota, Mercedes and BMW announcing their disappointment with this decision (and a few others cited).

Why would they do that? The teams, and thus the manufacturers, get over 50% of Formula 1's revenues. The more money Bernie gets, the more money the teams get. The manufacturers will do absolutely nothing to stop races like Canada, Australia or Belgium from disappearing because they're small markets for car sales and they aren't willing to pay as much as Asia and the Middle East for races.

If the fans counted we'd still have races at Suzuka, Imola, the Osterriechring, Montreal and the old Hockenheim. Silverstone wouldn't be constantly under threat, Australia wouldn't be forced to run at night and Abu Dhabi, Valencia, Singapore wouldn't exist. We stopped being important years ago. The problem is, we're all addicted to the bloody sport and keep watching no matter what that pint-sized knob jockey does. And he knows that too.

[ArrowsFA1]

They take F1 out of the entire North American market. They take away one of the races that gets the highest ratings in Europe. And they call it progress!
When the US GP was being discussed Nick Fry said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70378) "the North American market is absolutely vital to us, and for all the luxury car makers especially it is key. It is a market Honda is successful in, with Honda and Acura, and we would like to get back there as soon as possible."

I doubt his view will have changed in a month so the likes of Honda will not be pleased at the loss of the Canadian GP. What they can actually do about it is another question.

[Sleeper]

So we lose Canada for Abu Dhabi, once again the fans get a bum deal.

[bovic]

They're bluffing.. :)

[winer]

Ecclestone has said there is "a contract problem", but to my knowledge the Montreal organizers of the race have not admitted to knowing anything about a problem. The organizers apparently thought they had a contract through 2011.

[winer]

They're bluffing.. :)

Apparently not. The latest seems to be that the decision is final.

[rickos]

The track was falling apart at the last race. The asphalt was new but made from ingredients found under Tiger Stadium in Detroit where Jimmy Hoffa's body parts caused the tar to melt at a lower temperature than expected.
The midget dodo bird who runs F1 wants more $$ for the licensing fee as well as a track that will not have chunks of asphalt flying into his presidential suite at track-side and possibly interrupting the orgy that he and Mad Max enjoy every race.

[Datsun 2000]

First the USGP bites the dust-not so hard to understand as the IMS and Indianapolis never really embraced or fully appreciated F1-now, unforgivably, Bernie shafts Montreal and the entire North American fan base. I attended all 8 USGP's and had a regular pattern attending the Grand Prix du Canada every other year as well. Montreal was an amazing host city and the track always produced exciting racing and provided a magnificent natural setting. Apparently the interest of the F1 fans in North American cannot hold a candle to the might of middle east oil money when it comes to determining host sites for races. Memo to Bernie: Why drag it out? Let's take Spa, Monaco, and Silverstone off the calendar next year also. Add Saudi Arabia, Iraq (Haliburton will build the track on a no bid contract), and Kuwait. Bernie seems not to care (perhaps he just doesn't know) that the fan base and supporters of F1 are primarily in western Europe and North America and that he is quickly and completely disenfranchising us.

[leopard]

If happens, this will be encouraging Datsun to enter F1 alongside Leopard. :)

[ArrowsFA1]

Formula One team principals are set to hold talks about ways to get the Canadian Grand Prix back on the calendar in 2009, autosport.com has learned.

Honda Racing CEO Nick Fry told autosport.com: "I don't think it is a short-term problem, but it is a problem that does need to be addressed. We are a global series and not to be performing in one of the major continents is a serious problem - even more so because it is a continent that is very important for the motor manufacturers who are involved in F1."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71237

[Datsun 2000]

Details, speculation, facts?:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-only-government-can-save-canada-gp-promoter-says/

[Easy Drifter]

The problem now seems to be money. The track needs repaving and the organizers cannot afford that and the Demented Midget's annual 10% fee increase.
The Quebec Govt. has announced they are studying the economic impact the race has on Quebec and Mtl. in paticular but they may be willing to contribute depending on the results.
We are in the middle of a Federal election (next Tues.) so Federal aid is a big question mark.
The Bloc (a Quebec only party) and the Liberals would probably support aid if The Quebec Govt. does. The Conserveratives (the current minority Govt.) might. The Dippers (NDP) and the Greens probably not.
The election is too close to call, although the Conservatives have a polling lead. Their is a good chance of another minority and then it is anybodys guess in these economic times.
If the race is bailed out it might just be in August which would be a slap at NAPCAR and the Nationwide series.

[ArrowsFA1]

Details, speculation, facts?:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-only-government-can-save-canada-gp-promoter-says/
The interesting part of that for me was this:

"For an organization like ours, which is to say a private promoter, the actual business model implemented by the owners and the Formula 1 teams is no longer feasible.”
:dozey:

Increasingly if anywhere wants a GP it needs government backing, and it seems as if Montreal government officials are going to do what they can:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71253

[wmcot]

Now Bernie needs to get rid of Brazil and he can rule out a whole hemisphere! :(

[jens]

Now Bernie needs to get rid of Brazil and he can rule out a whole hemisphere! :(

If Australian Grand Prix gets kicked out too, we'll get an Eurasian Championship instead of the World one. Then maybe other continents need to reach an agreement and create their own championship. :p :

[ioan]

If Australian Grand Prix gets kicked out too, we'll get an Eurasian Championship instead of the World one. Then maybe other continents need to reach an agreement and create their own championship. :p :

Given Bernies requirements we might watch the Asian F1 Championship in a few years!

[markabilly]

Good riddance to Canada and to Fing1

many good reasons not to waste precious time and gasoline on that race, such as:

1. Bernie has got a right to do with it as he pleases.

2. Clearly he is worried that if Sarah "i gotta gun" Palin gets elected, the US of A will be annexing Canada back into the US of A where it was always meant to be, so it would have been the USGP and Bernie decided that with the cigarette ban and all, a wise man must stay with Asia where Ferrari can go au natural and let their freak flag wave, show their real colors, and let the name of Marlbaro shine on through for everyone to see.

3. Besides all those fans were showing up and all, getting in the way of TV,

4. and then the night races in canada and usa would have really been really tough to schedule where the Europeepeons could see them on the TV--the real source of income that is more important than a bunch of smelly, stinking fans stumbling around and having a good time........

5. it will not matter anyway because soon all the races will be run on computers with computer generated race tracks and blue screens as background.

6. Most important---Bernie knows that all the good paying jobs have already gone or will be going shortly to India, China and so forth. leaving that part of the world formerly known as the North American contintent as a poor debtor nation where people do not have enough money to deserve F1 and they do not allow no tobacco advertizing anyway, so why waste good time and resources on such as that....when one can go where the new greenbacks are to be found and the tobacco smoke flows free

there that should just about cover it.......except did i mention greed.....well of course not, greed has nothing to do with such true sporting true bloods of Fing1 like benrie

[Easy Drifter]

The last 2 times the US tried to 'annex' Canada they got whumped! :p

[raikk]

Apparently not. The latest seems to be that the decision is final.

thats what they said heading into 2004,I have a feeling this is just a big bluff. This race is too important for both Canada and F1 it's self. If F1 wants more money the Canadian government will probably step in and give them more $$$$$

[raikk]

Good riddance to Canada and to Fing1

many good reasons not to waste precious time and gasoline on that race, such as:

1. Bernie has got a right to do with it as he pleases.

2. Clearly he is worried that if Sarah "i gotta gun" Palin gets elected, the US of A will be annexing Canada back into the US of A where it was always meant to be, so it would have been the USGP

what the hell does that supposed to mean?

[Chaparral66]

Formula 1 used to visit Holland, Sweden, (unfortunately at the time) South Africa, Portugal, and Mexico. Truly a world sport. It has become a BE cash cow for whomever can pay the fee. Question is, can Our Good Friend Bernie Eccelstone afford to run the business as usual now that the world is in financial turmoil? Dumping Canada is not a good idea even in a bullish market.

[call_me_andrew]

My sources tell me that Bernie feels North American promoters are too interested in making money...

*Pause for laughter*


"There's a quote attributed to Ernest Hemingway when he said: 'There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."

I doubt Hemmingway actually said that. Hemmingway felt that bull fighting was cruel to animals.

[Chaparral66]

[quote="call_me_andrew"]My sources tell me that Bernie feels North American promoters are too interested in making money...

*Pause for laughter*

LOL!!

[BobbyC]

My sources tell me that Bernie feels North American promoters are too interested in making money...

*Pause for laughter*



I doubt Hemmingway actually said that. Hemmingway felt that bull fighting was cruel to animals.

Mike Joy said that on Wind Tunnel. Bernie wants government subsidised races because he wants every penny out of the track -- even concessions should be Bernie's in his view.

[BobbyC]

The track was falling apart at the last race. The asphalt was new but made from ingredients found under Tiger Stadium in Detroit where Jimmy Hoffa's body parts caused the tar to melt at a lower temperature than expected.
The midget dodo bird who runs F1 wants more $$ for the licensing fee as well as a track that will not have chunks of asphalt flying into his presidential suite at track-side and possibly interrupting the orgy that he and Mad Max enjoy every race.

The Nationwide race at Le Circuit in 2007 was the first time track breakup became an issue because of the heat.

[Easy Drifter]

Not to defend the problem in Mtl, but tracks in Canada and Northern US take one h--l of a beating from the weather. Minus 30C or even 40 (C or F) are common in winter. Plus 35C is common in summer. That is tough on any tarmac surface plus the constant freezing/thawing in spring and late fall.
The temp. when laying the surface and for a few days after can foul up the best laid plans if unexpected changes in conditions occur before the surface has a chance to set properly.

[call_me_andrew]

I will agree that Montreal doesn't have the best surface, but it wouldn't be that hard to repalce the patched asphalt with concrete.

[BobbyC]

I will agree that Montreal doesn't have the best surface, but it wouldn't be that hard to replace the patched asphalt with concrete.

Bernie and the drivers' attitude of this idea is different than what North American racing's attitude of such; they don't like the "Martinsville Solution" (named for the short 800-metre oval in Virginia which did that trick in the 1970's and only once -- in 2004 after the concrete was there for nearly 30 years -- did it break up and result in it having to be redone).

And now this: A major Northeastern US bank is acquired by Santander. Now see why STD wants a North American race. ING has a major office in Seattle for ultra-discount broker Sharebuilder, part of their ING Direct brand.

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasDealsNews/idUSTRE49D3OM20081014

[call_me_andrew]

Bernie and the drivers' attitude of this idea is different than what North American racing's attitude of such; they don't like the "Martinsville Solution" (named for the short 800-metre oval in Virginia which did that trick in the 1970's and only once -- in 2004 after the concrete was there for nearly 30 years -- did it break up and result in it having to be redone).

And don't forget that Watkins Glen has done it too.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2008/1714173872_0b71d3c414.jpg?v=0

Sometimes I wonder if we will ever see an all concrete road course.

[N. Jones]

regardless of the state of the track Canada is one of the few races that promoted overtaking and fights for position. Why it has to go is beyond me....

[schmenke]

Overtaking and fights for position do not bring revenues into Bernie's pockets :mark:

[christophulus]

Ecclestone doesn't seem to give Canada a lot of hope:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71490

Real shame, one of the best races on the calendar

[ioan]

RD is now Bernie's Muppet or what?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71622

[schmenke]

RD is now Bernie's Muppet or what?...

:?: :mark:

[ArrowsFA1]

Government officials from Montreal will fly to London today for a meeting with Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone in an attempt to save next season's Canadian Grand Prix.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71639

[Knock-on]

Wonder how it went?

Canadian Delegation:

"These are the reasons why there should be a Canadian GP.
* To have a presence in N Ameriac
* Because it's widely supported
* Because the fans like it
* Etc"

Bernie:

"Show me the money :D "

[the bro]

IMO Bernie wouldn't be meeting with them if there wasn't a chance the race would be reinstated. Probably depends on how much cash they can come up with. I think with the cancellation of the French Grand Prix, this gives the Canadian Grand Prix more hope.

[stevie_gerrard]

i agree, the fact that france can't seem to fund their GP anymore means they have to at least bring canada back, that is one of my favourite tracks in f1, its the one race i watch every year guaranteed live without fail.

[MacRed]

i agree, the fact that france can't seem to fund their GP anymore means they have to at least bring canada back, that is one of my favourite tracks in f1, its the one race i watch every year guaranteed live without fail.

Better find another F1 race to watch. 'Cause there isn't going to be a 'Puck GP in 2009'. An article in the globeandmail.com confirms the rumors of the -unpaid bills to Bernie- dating back to 2006.

The Quebec & Canadian Gov. Sent 3 Senior officials to London to meet with Bernie to try to save the race. 2006 & 2007 now seem to be paid (after the meeting) but the 2008 bill is still *not* paid in full.

Yes Bernie is greedy but if you sign a deal you pay the bill. The Canadian F1 Race Organizers Knew the cost! What did they think Bernie was going to do...
Kiss 'em and say thats fine with me.
.

[Easy Drifter]

It is not dead yet. All three levels of Govt. are involved and several businesses have indicated interest in aiding. I do not know if JV's restuarant is one!
The various Govts. are working together to see if it is viable.
It seems one stumbling block is the current promoter who the Demented Midget does not want to deal with. He does not seem to have a great reputation as I understand he jerked CC aound.
ASN Canada has Paul Cooke as vice president and Cookie was involved in the organization of the Cdn. GP in the Mosport days so he might be considered to run the event, although from the sounds of things the various levels of Govt. will want a major say. Another stumbling block is that Paul is not from Quebec and I don't think he speaks French.
How about JV. He is such good friends with the Demented Midget. :D

[MacRed]

Dream on *Mtn Man* It ain't going to happen. Where's JV been ???

Crawling to Bernie on one's hands and knees isn't the best way to get the race back. It's dead!!!! The Gov. crowd just wanted to make sure it looked like it tried.

Spending 20M-320M on a car race in these economic times not exactly the way to get yourself re-elected.

[schmenke]

Elections are over... ;)

[Easy Drifter]

shmenke: I think MacRed knows that. I suspect he is Cdn. and lives in BC dodging ex wives. At least he knows what I post as on another forum!
There is speculation that Charest may call any early election in Quebec though.

[MacRed]

Elections are over... ;)

Not in 'Frog Land' which needs to call one soon if Jean Charest wants to be re-elected!! Not to mention the Minority Fed Gov. and the 'Du Liberals who seem to need a new fearless riffet .... to save us from the loss of our art & culture in Quebec.

[schmenke]

Just curious... How much funding was each govt. forking over to host the GP?

[MacRed]

shmenke: I think MacRed knows that. I suspect he is Cdn. and lives in BC dodging ex wives. At least he knows what I post as on another forum!
There is speculation that Charest may call any early election in Quebec though.

This twit claims to be from 'cowtown' Calgary. The closest he's been to a cow is it that 'Plastic one at the Calgary Stampede (maybe).

[schmenke]

This twit claims to be from 'cowtown' Calgary. The closest he's been to a cow is it that 'Plastic one at the Calgary Stampede (maybe).

Thanks :mark:

[MacRed]

Just curious... How much funding was each govt. forking over to host the GP?

I believe that the Quebec Gov. admitted to giving 5M a year as of 2006

[Easy Drifter]

And I know where Mountain High racing was and what it was called and who it was named after. Actually we called it Wetwood. I was there many times and still have some 'Klondike Dollars' from when we ran at the old Edmonton Int'l. Then there was Grimli (Gimli) MOOOO!

[MacRed]

And I know where Mountain High racing was and what it was called and who it was named after. Actually we called it Wetwood. I was there many times and still have some 'Klondike Dollars' from when we ran at the old Edmonton Int'l. Then there was Grimli (Gimli) MOOOO!

Is this forum mis-posting again when it gets too busy or are you back on the 'Whiskey'??? I wasn't referring to you in my prev. posts

[Easy Drifter]

I know. I was just trying to get you going.
Come on back to the forum where we can joust without leaving everyone else confused.
I haven't posted since you left. No fun.
Now I am going to post in 'Serious Matters' especially for you.
Moderators: After this post I will stay on topic.

[D28]

The news item it not quite correct, as there was no Canadian Grand Prix in 1975 due to a dispute between the organizers and FOCA. Two years were missed between 1967 and 2008.

Although it is my home race, I think it is a mistake for governments to give in to Bernie's demands. Western democracies can never compete with the governments in Asia and the Mid-East. If they save the race for 2009, they will be back with further demands later. The Canadian government created this problem with their ban on tobacco advertising about 12 years ago. Imperial tobacco was a longtime supporter of motor racing in Canada and a former sponsor of the Grand Prix. Their funding has never been replaced by other companies, and the government can only do so much.

I am in a minority, but I have never enjoyed the Montreal setting. Most of the commentators and racing people enjoy it because of the close proximity to first class hotels and retaurants. They are not footing their own bills.
I consider the circuit too flat, twisty and narrow, better suited to Formula Atlantic but not F1. There are frquent safety car situations. I grew up on racing at Mosport, Watkins Glen and Mt Tremblant. All of these are real racing circuits. Mosport in particular is a breathtaking course; most of the early Grand Prix were held here. For Bernie and his friends it is out of the question, too primitive, in the middle of nowhere. Actually it is about 1 hour from Toronto.

What I noticed about Montral in 1998, was the age of the crowd, mostly over 55. Students and young people in general don't have the funds to attend the race and stay in $300 a night hotels. There is no easy access to parking or camping, the organizers to not have this group in mind. This will be a problem for F1 down the road.

Because there is no elevation change on the island, it is impossible to view the race without an expensive seat. Agin this is in contrast to Mosport and Watkins Glen. The garage areas are now located on the far end of the island
locked away from the normal customers. There is no opportunity to see any of the racing teams up close as in the past.

For all of these reasons I would not feel too badly if Montral was dropped.

[pino]

Guys keep this thread on topic and clean or it will be closed !

[schmenke]

...What I noticed about Montral in 1998, was the age of the crowd, mostly over 55. ...

I didn't notice that (I was at that race too ;) ).

Tremblant would be a great venue :up: . I understand that there has recently been extensive upgrades to the track, although I would think that a fair bit of work would still be required to bring up to F1 standards.




(Thanks Pino :) )

[pino]

(Thanks Pino :) )


You're welcome my friend ;)

[Easy Drifter]

Apparently the money problem for past years has been sorted out thanks to the Cdn. Taxpayers. Now they have to find a promoter. The demented midget will not deal with LeGault again.
I expect whoever promotes the race will have to come up with a fair amount of money in addition to what the City, Province and the Feds are prepared to pay. :eek:

[schmenke]

Bombardier...?

[Bagwan]

Cirque du Bernie .

[pino]

I cross my fingers :D

[Easy Drifter]

The owner of the Cirque is a distinct possibility.
Another, so far, not mentioned would be the Cdn. organizers of the major Mosport races where the track is owned by Dr. Panoz.
I don't know if the money is there or if Quebec would accept a promoter from outside Quebec. Language should not be problem as the language of racing is English and most Montrealers are bilingual, even if they don't always admit it. It goes both ways. Most anglo Montrealers can speak French if they want to.
Trouble is the vast majority from most of Ontario do not speak French, at least not well. I have forgotten most of mine although I usually can read it enough to understand it. I still can swear in French though. Gilles V. was a good teacher. I think the first thing he learned in English was swearing!
Actually all the Quebecois drivers were fluent in swearing in both languages.
The Anglos quickly learned how to swear in French! :D

[PSfan]

It would appear the final nail is in the coffin now:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATTEMPTS TO SAVE CANADIAN GRAND PRIX HAVE FAILED

MONTREAL - Montreal has lost the Canadian Grand Prix. Montreal mayor Gerald Tremblay says despite their best efforts, the "unreasonable" demands of Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone made the deal unworkable.

Tremblay says Ecclestone demanded a guarantee of $175-million over five years to stage the race in Montreal. The government offer was for $110-million over five years plus 75-percent of the first $10-million in profits and an additional 25-percent of any remaining profits.

Ecclestone turned down the government's offer.

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=256169&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_auto_racing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[gloomyDAY]

Great! I hate tracks with heritage, amazing configurations, and above all else spectacular racing. More tracks like Montreal should be scrapped for some forsaken jerkwater place in the middle of a desert.

I wonder which oil rich nation will leech another F1 race. Any ideas?

[Easy Drifter]

The 'Demented Midget' may soon have found he has overeached himself. TG, who I do not like, told him where to go. Canada despite bending over and exposing themselves have lost out. France has said no way. China has told him to back off.
Aust. are balking at some of his demands, so far.
I expect Korea, India and Russia are having second thoughts in these economic times.
The manufacturers are restless and upset at losing NA. Renault can not be happy about no GP in France.
BMW and Mercedes will not be pleased by the threats to the German GP.
Who else does he want to alienate?
Even Ferrari are not happy with the constant expensive rule changes while Mad Max and the Midget are demanding so called cost cutting measures that actually usually increase costs.

[ShiftingGears]

The 'Demented Midget' may soon have found he has overeached himself. TG, who I do not like, told him where to go. Canada despite bending over and exposing themselves have lost out. France has said no way. China has told him to back off.
Aust. are balking at some of his demands, so far.
I expect Korea, India and Russia are having second thoughts in these economic times.
The manufacturers are restless and upset at losing NA. Renault can not be happy about no GP in France.
BMW and Mercedes will not be pleased by the threats to the German GP.
Who else does he want to alienate?
Even Ferrari are not happy with the constant expensive rule changes while Mad Max and the Midget are demanding so called cost cutting measures that actually usually increase costs.

The Australian Grand Prix won't ever be a night race if it's at Albert Park. It's too close to residential areas, and residents being kept up by grand prix cars on a sunday night is not in the Victorian governments best interests. So I won't be surprised if theres no more Australian Grand Prix in a few years.

[Ranger]

The Australian GP has only been kept against Bernie's night race demands because:
a) $$$
b) The OzGP chairman is a mate of Bernie's.

without the latter of those two, there wouldn't have been a 2008 race down here, let alone until 2011.

[ioan]

It would appear the final nail is in the coffin now:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATTEMPTS TO SAVE CANADIAN GRAND PRIX HAVE FAILED

MONTREAL - Montreal has lost the Canadian Grand Prix. Montreal mayor Gerald Tremblay says despite their best efforts, the "unreasonable" demands of Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone made the deal unworkable.

Tremblay says Ecclestone demanded a guarantee of $175-million over five years to stage the race in Montreal. The government offer was for $110-million over five years plus 75-percent of the first $10-million in profits and an additional 25-percent of any remaining profits.

Ecclestone turned down the government's offer.

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=256169&lid=headline&lpos=topStory_auto_racing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The greedy b@$!*%d.
Let's hope that many tracks hit financial problems and drop their agreements with Bernie, and we see him bankrupt in no time (well his wife might even help out a bit with this part).
F1 prices have to go down, but not only as far as they involve the teams.
Races have to become cheaper too.

[Ranger]

The greedy b@$!*%d.
Let's hope that many tracks hit financial problems and drop their agreements with Bernie, and we see him bankrupt in no time (well his wife might even help out a bit with this part).
F1 prices have to go down, but not only as far as they involve the teams.
Races have to become cheaper too.

I will play the devil's advocate here.

TV rights and race hosting rights have to be more expensive for the time being because:

1. No-one giving Bernie money means less money for FOM.
2. Less money for FOM means less profit.
3. Less FOM profit means F1's huge debt to CVC doesn't get paid off. (That's how I understand it... Max selling Bernie F1 rights for 100 years at a cost underpriced by billions probably has something to do with this current problem)
4. The longer the debt doesn't get paid off, the more expensive the interest. Hence Bernie has to break even by charging more money.
5. If FOM goes bankrupt, the teams get no WCC money, hence they are in trouble. The commercial wellbeing of the sport forms the backbone of the sport itself.

If there is one thing I don't want happening, then it is a CART-esque demise of F1.

Trust me, I would like to see Bernie's greediness bite him back, but he is central to the financial stability of F1, which under his watch the sport has thus far remained stable. The Economic crisis will tip that stability to some degree, however.

[Big Ben]

So which one's next? Monza?

[ioan]

I will play the devil's advocate here.

TV rights and race hosting rights have to be more expensive for the time being because:

1. No-one giving Bernie money means less money for FOM.
2. Less money for FOM means less profit.
3. Less FOM profit means F1's huge debt to CVC doesn't get paid off. (That's how I understand it... Max selling Bernie F1 rights for 100 years at a cost underpriced by billions probably has something to do with this current problem)
4. The longer the debt doesn't get paid off, the more expensive the interest. Hence Bernie has to break even by charging more money.
5. If FOM goes bankrupt, the teams get no WCC money, hence they are in trouble. The commercial wellbeing of the sport forms the backbone of the sport itself.

If there is one thing I don't want happening, then it is a CART-esque demise of F1.

Trust me, I would like to see Bernie's greediness bite him back, but he is central to the financial stability of F1, which under his watch the sport has thus far remained stable. The Economic crisis will tip that stability to some degree, however.

Did you realize that it's all about FOM, CVC and Bernie and less about the teams?

How much money does a small team get?
Isn't it something that has to do with the points they amassed during the championship?
And how the heck would a very small price payed by Bernie to the FIA mean that the FOM are in trouble now? IMO you got the things a bit mixed up there. In fact bernie bought the rights for cheap and than sold them for a lot more (IMO way to much) to the CVC, whom I don't simpatize at all and could go bankrupt as far as I care, and whom are in trouble to pay back their loan, but that has little to do with the teams themselves.

Expecting someone to pay you more during this financial and now economic crisis = suicide.
If the price to host a GP will not drop than I expect serious problems for the commercial rights holder.

[Knock-on]

I actually agree with ioan.

Hosting F1 races should be beneficial for all parties; FOM, the track, the teams, fans and other vendors.

The fans already get charged too much for tickets IMO and the rate Bernie charges the circuits to host races is extortion.

With cost cutting measures being adopted by the teams, Bernie needs to look at the amount he charges the circuits because £30M odd is too steep. You're looking at 200k people attending a GP and paying £150 per head to cover that.

[BDunnell]

Expecting someone to pay you more during this financial and now economic crisis = suicide.
If the price to host a GP will not drop than I expect serious problems for the commercial rights holder.

Absolutely right. Bernie, etc, cannot expect to be able to make as much money during the current economic circumstances. The same market forces should apply to them as to the rest of us. If Bernie and co don't recognise this, then they will be taking F1 further out of step with reality than it currently is. This is a dangerous thing for the image of F1 - far more so than anything Max has got up to in his private life, or anything McLaren did last year. F1 is already on difficult ground, being seen as it is to revel in its conspicuous display of wealth. This strikes me as becoming increasingly inappropriate in this day and age.

[Easy Drifter]

What I find interesting is this is the first time anyone has come right out and said what the 'Demented Midget' demanded, or what they were willing to pay.
The US (TG), France and China have all said his demands were too high but did not state what he was/is asking.
I am sure he will not be too happy that the Cdn. Govt. officials openly stated how much the could afford and revealed what he was demanding.

[Bagwan]

What I find interesting is this is the first time anyone has come right out and said what the 'Demented Midget' demanded, or what they were willing to pay.
The US (TG), France and China have all said his demands were too high but did not state what he was/is asking.
I am sure he will not be too happy that the Cdn. Govt. officials openly stated how much the could afford and revealed what he was demanding.

Good , point , Drifter .
The nerve of them Canucks , eh ?
Taking that backroom talk out to the media .

How will this sit with all the newly recruited track owners ? Will they demand the same rates ?

I revel in the thought that Bernie has some 'splainin' to do .

But , I am saddened to think that we may , as a result , never again see a Canadian GP .


By the way , Drifter , how are those drifts looking today ?
I've got about nine and a half inches on my back deck right now .
I just got in from shovelling .

[Easy Drifter]

About 5 inches here. Barrie and Orillia got nailed.
Back on topic. You (and others) should read 'Senor Soup's blog. He is from Mtl. and uses language that would get a permanent ban on any forum. Imagnative descriptions of Bernie.
The Cdn. Forum has some interesting comments mostly by me but I expect our western members will join in once they get up. One is a former FA driver and his dad and late uncle were regulars in the original Can Am. I drove against both of them when they had Lotus 23's.
By the way I had to deal with the 'Demented Midget' when he owned Brabham.

[Tom206wrc]

I feel deeply gutted for our candadian friends...Let's get rid of Bernie, Mad Max and co :mad: :mad:

[ioan]

By the way , Drifter , how are those drifts looking today ?
I've got about nine and a half inches on my back deck right now .
I just got in from shovelling .

Off topic:
Man, you are so lucky!
I'm already looking forward to the day when I'll be able to hit the slopes again!

[ioan]

Back to F1.
Anyone has an idea about who is paying to host the Hungarian GP at the Hungaroring?
With the government just taking up a 20 billion Euro loan from the IMF, WB and EU in order not to go bankrupt, I suppose it might not be seen as fit to continue paying 20+ million € a year to Bernie.
IMO Hungary might be the next one to say bye, followed maybe by one of the Spanish GP's where the local authorities are helping pay the bills.

[Knock-on]

Well, Bernie has to get as much money as possible to pay for his impending divorce.

Hope she takes him to the cleaners!

[Easy Drifter]

If anyone wishes to read Senor Soup's uncontrolled rant it is racecritic blogspot.com/

[Bagwan]

If anyone wishes to read Senor Soup's uncontrolled rant it is racecritic blogspot.com/

Rather colourful and creative permutations of Bernie's name .
He might have to one that down a touch to get into journalism as he wishes .

I should think his words would be tame compared to some being spoken presently in Montreal .
And those might be tame compared to those in auto maker boardrooms .
And those might be tame compared to those involved in building tracks in remote jungles and deserts all over the east .

The cards are on the table .
It's evident we need a re-deal . The house cheats .

[Bagwan]

I got this from ManipeF1 :

"Ecclestone/Fortier correspondance in full
17 November, 2008

The following is the correspondence between Canadian Grand Prix representative Michael Fortier and Formula One Administration President Bernie Ecclestone regarding the rescue of the 2009 Canadian Grand Prix, after it was dropped from the calendar on 7 October.

Montreal, November 7, 2008

Attention: Mr Bernie Ecclestone

Dear Sirs:

I have been mandated by the Mayor of Montreal, Mr Gérald Tremblay, the Minister of Industry and Minister responsible for Montreal in the Quebec Government, Mr Raymond Bachand, and the Minister of Public Works and Minister responsible for Greater Montreal in the Canadian Government, Mr Christian Paradis, (together, the "Government Officials") to write you with regards to the Formula One Canadian Grand Prix (the "Grand Prix").

As you know, the Grand Prix has experienced considerable success in Montreal since it was first held in 1978. Attendance at the event has been consistently robust. Montrealers are significantly attached to the event as are scores of fans from the rest of Quebec and Canada, from the Americas and Europe who travel by the thousands to Montreal to witness the race in a truly unique setting. I understand the Grand Prix is very popular among racers and participating teams, as well as with car manufacturers given that the Grand Prix has become their sole vignette on North America.

Over the past several years, the Grand Prix has been promoted by Grand Prix F1 du Canada Inc. ("GPF1") further to a contract signed between GPF1 and Formula One Administration Limited ("FOAL") dated 18 January 2002, as amended by a contract dated 21 November 2006, (the "Contract") which granted GPF1 the right to hold the Grand Prix until 2011 (inclusive). I understand that following a dispute between GPF1 and FOAL, the Contract has been terminated. As a result, the future of the Grand Prix has been jeopardised. The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile failed to include the Grand Prix in its recently released 2009 Formula One calendar (the "Calendar").

You have indicated previously that you are willing to reinsert the Grand Prix on the Calendar as long as new contractual arrangements can be agreed upon between FOAL and a promoter. Mayor Tremblay, Minister Bachaud and myself met with you on October 23, 2008 to discuss the future of the Grand Prix and the economic model upon which it could be sustainable. During such meeting, we indicated that the City of Montreal, the Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada would consider financial assistance for the Grand Prix. Over the past weeks, certain of the Government Officials and myself have had several conversations and meetings with individuals and groups either knowledgeable about the Formula One industry or potentially interested in acting as the promoter of the Grand Prix.

Several conclusions can be reached from these conversations and meetings. Firstly, the projected trajectory of revenues and expenses for the Grand Prix for the next several years will require a creative contractual approach between FOAL and the promoter. Secondly, the Grand Prix represents a significant asset for FOAL given its historical successes, particularly in the context where industry paradigms are likely to be challenged in light of the current worldwide economic conditions. Thirdly, government funding towards the Grand Prix may be necessary in order to successful stage the event in the future.

As a result, I believe that the attached proposed Term Sheet represents a model upon which we can build the next 30 years for the Grand Prix. This model would guarantee at least two-thirds of the expected FOAL fees for the future races and allow for additional revenues to flow to FOAL based on net revenues. This model also assumes that Government Officials would together commit $5m towards each Grand Prix and an additional $5m from other sources. My understanding is that had this model been in place for the 2008 Grand Prix the venue would not have incurred a deficit.

Time has become of the essence. In order to successfully stage the 2009 Grand Prix we must come to terms as soon as conveniently possible. I will make myself available to meet with you and discuss the attached at your earliest convenience.

Best regards
Hon. Michael M Fortier, PC



Term Sheet
FORMULA ONE CANADIAN GRAND PRIX

Event: Canadian Round of the Formula One World Championship

Venue: Gilles-Villeneuve Race Circuit (Montreal)

Promoter: Newco (to be formed as a not-for-profit entity)

Race Promotion Contract: To be signed by Newco and Formula One Administration Limited (FOAL)

Term: Race Promotion Contract to be valid for 5 successive Events at the Venue, starting in 2009 and ending in 2013

Option: At the option of Newco, the Term be expanded for an additional 5 successive Events, starting in 2014 and ending in 2018

Title Sponsorship: Any and all revenues derived from a Title Sponsor shall be shared as follows:
- Newco and FOAL to share equally such revenues in 2009;
- Newco to keep 80% (and FOAL 20%) of such revenues in 2010 and 2011;
- Newco to keep 100% of such revenues for the balance of the Term and the Option, if exercised

Signage at Venue: All rights with respect to advertising and signage at the Venue will belong to FOAL for the events held in 2009, 2010 and 2011 and will belong to Newco for the Events held in 2012 and 2013 and for the Events held during the Option, in exercised. If a Title Sponsorship is in place for the Events held in 2009, 2010 and 2011, FOAL agrees to provide reasonable signage for the Title Sponsorship at no extra cost

Minimum Race Fee: A minimum fee of C$20,000,000 shall be paid by Newco to FOAL, starting in 2009, which shall increase annually at the race of 5% for the duration of the Term, including the Option if exercised

Additional Race Fee: Newco shall also pay the FOAL for the duration of the Term, including the Option if exercised, and additional race fee which shall be determined on the Event's net profits (net of all expenses including the Minimum Race Fee) and calculated as follows:
- Newco shall pay to FOAL 75% of the first tranche of C$10,000 of net profits; and
- Newco shall pay to FOAL 25% on all net profits thereafter

Government funding: City of Montreal, Government of Quebec and Government of Canada together to commit $5m towards each event and an additional $5m indirectly from other sources

Guarantees: Newco shall not obtain letters of credit or governmental undertakings or to guarantee the performance of any of its obligations under the Race Promotion Contract

Prior Contracts: Any and all prior contracts between Grand Prix F1 du Canada Inc. (and entities related thereto) and FOAL (and entities related thereto) with respect to the Event shall be null and void



12 November 2008

The Hon. Michael M Fortier, PC

Dear Michael,

FORMULA 1 CANADIAN GRAND PRIX

Thank you for your facsimile letter of 7 November 2008.

Unfortunately your revised proposal, which differs only slightly from your earlier proposal sent received on 4 November, does not address our main issues.

As you know, the previous promoter Grand Prix F1 du Canada Inc. defaulted on its payment obligations to us three years in succession and it would be fair to say that my Board and the other key constituents to whom I am accountable are far from

happy with the position. Throughout my discussions with Mr Legault during the summer period, and in my discussions with you and your Government colleagues, I have been clear and unequivocal that it would be a condition of any new contract for the promotion of the Formula 1 Canadian Grand Prix that the performance of the race promoter be fully guaranteed or underwritten by the Government, the City and/or an institution of sound financial repute. Given the heavy losses and write-offs that we have incurred over the past three years, I am unable to yield on this point.

I might add that the terms that you have proposed are not economically viable in other key respects too, but there is no sense in debating that anyway in the absence of a credible financial backing.

As I said to you when we last spoke, if the Government and the City are unable to make that commitment, notwithstanding the positive economic impact of the Event on their respective interests, the I quite understand, but equally you will recognise that in the absence of a reliable promoter and satisfactory economic terms, I could not consider restoring the Event to the calendar.

I know we have both done our best to explore all the options to save the race, but I think we must both admit defeat on this occasion.

In any event, I send you my best regards
Bernie Ecclestone ."




The issue of the unmet contractual obligations seems to be Bernie's sticking point .
That seems to be the thing in the way . I wonder what the amount was , and if that is within the $175million for 5 years deal that bernie wants , or if he wants that , too .

[Easy Drifter]

Interesting.
So the 'Demented Midget' wants anyone who takes over the race to pay off the outstanding debt from LeGault. That is not good business. Bernie and Co. should be taking legal action against LeGault not expecting any new promoter to do so after paying off his debts. LeGault also played games with CC and I do not know where he stands with NAPCAR. I believe he promoted that race. I can see the City of Mtl. not allowing him to promote anything.
In this economic climate I can also understand why the 3 levels of Govt. are not prepared to guarantee the full costs.

[Ranger]

Did you realize that it's all about FOM, CVC and Bernie and less about the teams?

How much money does a small team get?
Isn't it something that has to do with the points they amassed during the championship?
And how the heck would a very small price payed by Bernie to the FIA mean that the FOM are in trouble now? IMO you got the things a bit mixed up there. In fact bernie bought the rights for cheap and than sold them for a lot more (IMO way to much) to the CVC, whom I don't simpatize at all and could go bankrupt as far as I care, and whom are in trouble to pay back their loan, but that has little to do with the teams themselves.

Expecting someone to pay you more during this financial and now economic crisis = suicide.
If the price to host a GP will not drop than I expect serious problems for the commercial rights holder.

All of what you say is right, I was just having a stab at whether Bernie's actions are more than based off his own greed this time.

[ioan]

All of what you say is right, I was just having a stab at whether Bernie's actions are more than based off his own greed this time.

I see. I'm sorry for misunderstanding your position. :)

[6wheeler]

This sucks is not strong enough. Having attended Montreal , the city is frigging great, should be head and shoulders above almost anywhere but Monte Carlo, the track and viewing are brilliant.
Watkins Glen
Montreal
Long Beach
that order

[ArrowsFA1]

Expecting someone to pay you more during this financial and now economic crisis = suicide.
If the price to host a GP will not drop than I expect serious problems for the commercial rights holder.
:up:

Those problems are already here. Talk of China not renewing their contract, and the Canadian GP situation, are real warning shots for CVC. They've always been able to rely on new venues willing to pay through the nose to host a GP but if that source of money dries up as well...

[Knock-on]

So, we have the changes to the WDC with the new medal system being:

Gold
Silver
Bronze
Steel
Aluminium
Cast Iron
Plastic
Paper Mache

And then we have the 2010 official fixtures list:

Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Oman
Dubai
Qatar
Kuwait
Iraq
Jordon
Russia
Turkey
Dubai again
Go on, another one for Dubai
Dubai, the heart of F1
Italy (To keep Ferrari happy)
Dubai (well, it would be rude not to)

[ioan]

So, we have the changes to the WDC with the new medal system being:

Gold
Silver
Bronze
Steel
Aluminium
Cast Iron
Plastic
Paper Mache

And then we have the 2010 official fixtures list:

Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Oman
Dubai
Qatar
Kuwait
Iraq
Jordon
Russia
Turkey
Dubai again
Go on, another one for Dubai
Dubai, the heart of F1
Italy (To keep Ferrari happy)
Dubai (well, it would be rude not to)

:rotflmao:
Excellent! But sad!

[goodf1fun]

u forgot CYPRUS :D

[6wheeler]

IRL interested in Montreal as a race

[Bagwan]

I found this on JV's site :

"F1 boss says his Montreal demands were fair
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 | 4:30 PM ET

Bernie Ecclestone contends that his cash demand to Montreal organizers — reportedly $175 million over five years — wasn't unreasonable. The head of Formula One racing has a retort for a city so infuriated with him that a leading newspaper carried an editorial cartoon Wednesday that depicts him being tortured.

Bernie Ecclestone says he isn't greedy.

The F1 czar told a Montreal radio station that he loves the city, that he hopes its popular annual race will return there and that his cash demands have been fair.

He scoffed when an interviewer for CJAD asked whether his demand — reportedly $175 million over five years, plus advertising and attendance revenues — was unreasonable.

Ecclestone said many other places around the world pay far more to host the race. He said the offer to Montreal was actually a steal, compared with what others pay.

Mayor Gerald Tremblay had called it unreasonable.

"Unreasonable compared to what?" Ecclestone replied in his radio interview.

"We do business worldwide and nobody else thinks we're unreasonable. We've got a queue of people that want races. So we can't be unreasonable."

Other GP venues struggling
Financial troubles are in fact plaguing F1 elsewhere.

France's current Grand Prix has been dropped from the schedule because of poor attendance, Australia's event is reporting record losses, and China is reportedly reconsidering the event in Shanghai.

The Montreal race was dropped from the 2009 schedule when federal, provincial and municipal officials balked at Ecclestone's cash demands.

The race generated an estimated $100 million for the city, and the downtown core was so full of festivities that some streets became giant block parties for days.

The annual influx of international partygoers into Montreal's hotels, restaurants and watering holes also offered a splashy morale boost to a city that had lost its baseball team and status as Canada's business capital.

But in recent years Montrealers had became accustomed to seemingly annual crisis talks where Ecclestone threatened to cancel the race over financial differences with local organizers.

Despite the overwhelming popularity of the event, few locals have expressed any desire for the government to meet Ecclestone's cash demands.

An editorial cartoon in Wednesday's Montreal La Presse summed up local anger toward Ecclestone.

It ran under the headline: "What event would best replace the Montreal Grand Prix?" Its conclusion was medieval torture.

The cartoon showed a man in a black hood standing above Ecclestone and stretching out his limbs over a rack, with a mob of locals cheering in the background.

'Everyone in F1 loves Montreal'
While Montrealers might not feel much affection for him, Ecclestone said he adores their city.

He said he wants the race back. In fact, he said he told Canadian officials they could replace any race on the schedule if they met his financial demands.

"Everyone in Formula One loves Montreal," Ecclestone told CJAD.

"I said [to organizers] you can come to my office, pull any contract out of that drawer for all the overseas races, take any one of them, cross out the name and put your name, and that's what we'll do.

"Because what was offered them was less than we get anywhere else in the world."

He refused to discuss specifics of his offer — and said he didn't appreciate details of contract negotiations being leaked into the public domain.

Canadian officials said he guaranteed the race for five years in exchange for $175 million and 100 per cent of the revenues linked to corporate boxes and advertising on the circuit.

They offered him $110 million over five years plus a cut of the annual profits — but Ecclestone refused.

Canadian racing officials had been in a previous dispute with Ecclestone over whether they had fulfilled the obligations of their existing contract.

The F1 boss argued he was owed $24 million by the race's previous promoters, and would have forgiven the outstanding sum had he reached a new deal with Canadian organizers.

The Canadians came away from last-minute negotiations expressing frustration. But when asked to describe the tone of their talks Ecclestone replied with glowing terms: "Good. Nice. Beautiful."

And as for the future of the race: "Of course we would [want it back] — we didn't want to lose it."

© The Canadian Press, 2008"

So , he's ready to slash any other track , and forgive the $24million , for a cut-rate price tag for Montreal .

That's on record .
I wonder how Singapore would feel about this ?
How about Bahrain , or Abu Dhabi ?

Would they feel "good" "nice" , or "beautiful" ?

I've heard numbers like $75million , being charged for the newer venues . The $175million works out as $35million a year , and Bernard says he'll happily axe a big money venue for that .

Though one side of me likes the idea of the public racking , another side begins to think that maybe it would be a good idea to say to Bernie , "ok , then , we want to replace Singapore ." , just to see the mayhem that would result .
Then , we could change our minds and say , "Naw , we want Bahrain's spot ."

Any of our legal experts here know if this public offer would already affect any of Bernie's contracts , being that it seems to offer a free voiding of existing paper ?

[BDunnell]

He said he wants the race back. In fact, he said he told Canadian officials they could replace any race on the schedule if they met his financial demands.

"Everyone in Formula One loves Montreal," Ecclestone told CJAD.

"I said [to organizers] you can come to my office, pull any contract out of that drawer for all the overseas races, take any one of them, cross out the name and put your name, and that's what we'll do.

"Because what was offered them was less than we get anywhere else in the world."

I find this absolutely incredible, though I have no idea about its possible legal implications as (a) I am no lawyer, and (b) we don't know the terms of any of the relevant contracts.



He refused to discuss specifics of his offer — and said he didn't appreciate details of contract negotiations being leaked into the public domain.

On a more general point, this is one area in which Bernie and F1 need to move with the times. When dealing with public bodies such as governments, whether national or local, he should expect that greater transparency is required with regard to finances nowadays, not least because of Freedom of Information laws in many countries.

[Knock-on]

So, the City generates $100m.

That's turnover isn't it?

That's for everything isn't it? Tickets, sponsorship, hospitality etc.

How much profit does that generate?

Does it generate $35m profit?

What about the revenue from sponsorship hospitality that Bernie wants as part of this deal that Canada will lose?

It seems Canada have done the right thing by telling him to poke it.

[ioan]

"We do business worldwide and nobody else thinks we're unreasonable. We've got a queue of people that want races. So we can't be unreasonable."

No kidding?!
Apart from some middle eastern countries I doubt there is anyone willing to go bankrupt to fill BE's and the CVC's accounts!
One shouldn't believe a word from what mop head says.

[christophulus]

http://www.f1way.com/news/2008/November/20/f1-teams-should-save-gp-says-montreal-alliance

Title says it all - someone in Montreal reckons that the manufacturers can put some of the money towards funding the GP, seems how it's such a large market. Two problems - firstly it'd set a dangerous precedent if they actually funded it, and more importantly I don't think there are many car companies around that have much spare cash!

Doesn't solve the original problem that Bernie's just charging too much..

[truefan72]

well it seems the right way to go is top publicly expose what Bernies ridiculous demands are and shame him into coming back to the table.

That being said, his even more stupifying notion that the Montreal Gp can simply decide whichcurrently scheduled F1 race to axe in favor of their return is enough of a justification for the CVC to remove Bernie from his postion and let him go quietly into that good night.

As we have always suspected. Bernie cares little for F1 or the races but simply views them as pawns to extract as much money as he greedily can.

[jso1985]

So, we have the changes to the WDC with the new medal system being:

Gold
Silver
Bronze
Steel
Aluminium
Cast Iron
Plastic
Paper Mache

And then we have the 2010 official fixtures list:

Saudi Arabia
Yemen
Oman
Dubai
Qatar
Kuwait
Iraq
Jordon
Russia
Turkey
Dubai again
Go on, another one for Dubai
Dubai, the heart of F1
Italy (To keep Ferrari happy)
Dubai (well, it would be rude not to)


Holy cow! they're dropping Abu Dabhi after only one season? then who says Bernie favours the middle east... :p

[BobbyC]

Bernie's idea is that the government collects every penny earned at the track. Mike Joy said the problem is Bernie does not want any circuit to make anything off the race, and Bernie wants 100% of the profits made at the track. He demands all advertising boards be covered and carry only those F1 wants, and everything on the track should be his, and only his.