2008 Tour de Corse - official thread

[wwbroe]

I think Wilson allready gave teamorders to Duval to get back behind Hirvonen, looks like it will be another boring day, concerning podiumplaces anyhow. I will focus on battle for fourth place. :D

[MikeD]

With 25 kg of spare parts inside the car but obviously it does not look to penalize him.....

That's why it would also be a disaster if Burkhart won. He simply doesn't have the speed and he cannot win rallies either.

Just hoping that Ogier wins the title and gets a WRC drive in this years rally GB. Would be cool to see what he can do in C4.

[MikeD]

I think Wilson allready gave teamorders to Duval to get back behind Hirvonen

Yes, it does look like that. I am not keen on Ford, Wilson and their politics this year.

[jonkka]

Ford's only chance is to push for win and if they are not doing that (I am not willing to make a judgment on that just yet), their title hopes are virtually gone.

[Wim_Impreza]

Congratulations to Mads Østberg with his 21th birthday.

[COD]

Yes, it does look like that. I am not keen on Ford, Wilson and their politics this year.


On first stage Duval was probably allowed to push to see if he can put pressure on Loeb, but as he was not it is only sensible to make sure that the teammates don't fight so hard that one or both crash. What is so wrong with that? Manufacturers title on the line here.

Interestingly Wilson said in an interview before the event, that Duval wasn't able to beat Loeb when they were both on Citroen, so he doesn't believe he can do so in Ford either.

[MikeD]

What is so wrong with that?

I am an old Ford fan but I think that this year they have been manipulating to much with the results. I think it must be very demotivating for a driver to be told to drive slower and I think that one of the reasons that Duval isn't faster than he is, is because he knows he will be told to let Hirvonen through anyway.

I think history shows that drivers get better once they are pushed by their teammates, and currently none of the BP Ford drivers are allowed to push Hirvonen, because Ford think that Hirvonen only can win the championship on consistency.

Just my 2 cents...

[jonkka]

Yet, Duval is 8 sec faster on 1st split... :eek:

[jonkka]

And Petter 6.5secs... what's going on there?

[MikeD]

...and Duval loses 8 sec on one split?!?!?! Weird...

[MikeD]

apparantly the first section was wet?!?!?!

[Wim_Impreza]

I am an old Ford fan but I think that this year they have been manipulating to much with the results. I think it must be very demotivating for a driver to be told to drive slower and I think that one of the reasons that Duval isn't faster than he is, is because he knows he will be told to let Hirvonen through anyway.

I think history shows that drivers get better once they are pushed by their teammates, and currently none of the BP Ford drivers are allowed to push Hirvonen, because Ford think that Hirvonen only can win the championship on consistency.

Just my 2 cents...

I am not a Citroën fan like you, but I agree here.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Tirabassi is doing quite well...might end up scoring a point or two.

well...?? 2s/km slower than leader, +47s on one stage?

it more of a indication of the lack of depth, than Tirabassi's "speed"

[Buzz Lightyear]

Atkinson problem?

[MikeD]

Problems for Atkinson...

[MikeD]

Strange...Becks has Atkinson 38 sec down whereas the splits says he's 43 sec down. Must be some split problems on this stage...

[N.O.T]

its quite amusing how the ford management tells francois to slow down to allow the sick dogs pass him....it reminds me of the glory days where kankkunen drove in reverse to allow the fake champion biasion to pass.

[COD]

I am an old Ford fan but I think that this year they have been manipulating to much with the results. I think it must be very demotivating for a driver to be told to drive slower and I think that one of the reasons that Duval isn't faster than he is, is because he knows he will be told to let Hirvonen through anyway.

I think history shows that drivers get better once they are pushed by their teammates, and currently none of the BP Ford drivers are allowed to push Hirvonen, because Ford think that Hirvonen only can win the championship on consistency.

Just my 2 cents...

I think you have one thing wrong here. If Duval would be able to beat Loeb, he would surely be allowed to drive as fast as he can. But he can't, so that is it

[Mirek]

Nice to see Prokop back in the lead :)

[muscrae]

what happened to atko?

[Kamikaze]

its quite amusing how the ford management tells francois to slow down to allow the sick dogs pass him....it reminds me of the glory days where kankkunen drove in reverse to allow the fake champion biasion to pass.

its quite amusing how the sick dog from Greece is always whining :D

[N.O.T]

its quite amusing how the sick dog from Greece is always whining :D

yes it is.

[OldF]

I’m going to take my dog for a walk now.

[pettersolberg29]

Duval slow. Conserving tyres?

[pettersolberg29]

Latvala flying!

[bluuford]

what happened to atko?

Front left puncture. "Early on the stage we ran over the rock, we decided to not to replace it."

[MikeD]

Jesus christ. Now they have gone completely food banzai on WRR. We seriously need new people on that Radio. The current ones are useless!

[jonkka]

Hope he doesn't go off...

[jonkka]

Jesus christ. Now they have gone completely food banzai on WRR. We seriously need new people on that Radio. The current ones are useless!

What's it this time? I don't listen 'cause they are ... just that...

[MikeD]

JML appears to have oil-problems despite the fast time. Oil dripping from gear box....more to follow...

[pettersolberg29]

^Was that on WRR?

[ZequeArgentina]

So we noe got the following fights:
Latvala and Solberg (good speed by Latvala today, uncertainty over his gearbox)
Otsberg and Wilson (at the second), but I guess Mikkelsen will pass both in his rush up recovering after the penalty.

And JWRC, with a very interesting fight!!

Edit: Mikkelsen still a lot way up to Mads and Mat, but He may end up right there

[pettersolberg29]

And Duval v. Mikko if they're allowed!

[ZequeArgentina]

And Duval v. Mikko if they're allowed!
No way........we all know that position has already been decided by M.Sport

[pettersolberg29]

I wasn't able to follow yesterday - were there any tactics? Or is Mikko fairly beating Duval, because if he is, that's impressive.

[René]

JML appears to have oil-problems despite the fast time. Oil dripping from gear box....more to follow...

Jari Matti can ask Ogier, he must have a spare oil tank in his C2....... :)

[MikeD]

Or is Mikko fairly beating Duval, because if he is, that's impressive.

No, Duval was asked to stay third for manu title points.

[pettersolberg29]

^Thanks

[Kamikaze]

No, Duval was asked to stay third for manu title points.

Was that said by anyone official ?
Or is it just your opinion ?

[MikeD]

Was that said by anyone official ?
Or is it just your opinion ?

Wilson's mouth! ... and Duvals. I think the interviews are on WRC.com

[Kamikaze]

Wilson's mouth!

Where did you read it ?

[ZequeArgentina]

I do not need to hear once again, they have done it one week ago iun Spain and gave all explanations they have, why should they do different now and change everything they have said 7 days ago???????

[MikeD]

Puncture for Gardemeister

[pucky54]

Puncture for Gardemeister

aaah, not good

[ZequeArgentina]

It seems Garde delayed Mikkelsen while changing the tyre, or just a mistake by ANdreas

[MikeD]

PG has stopped as well. Double Suzuki stop :D What a crap car ... and team

[MikeD]

Mikkelsen stopped as well ... 3 in a row.

[Kamikaze]

Wilson's mouth! ... and Duvals. I think the interviews are on WRC.com

Wishfull thinking ?
Show me an interview, where anybody say that.
Otherwise it is no fact, only an suggestion........

[Tom206wrc]

:s

[OldF]

No, Duval was asked to stay third for manu title points.

I was going to ask the same question but you (Kamikaze) were faster.

I have the feeling that at this moment the manu points for Ford is more important than the drivers championship and they (Ford) would let Duval to beat Seb if he was able to do that.

The Citroen is just simple better on tarmac and with a good driver like Seb they are invincible, at least on tarmac. I also think that Mikkelsen is qualified to compare the two cars (Ford and Citroen) performance on tarmac. Haven’t Mikkelsen been driving quite a lot on tarmac in GB and Ireland? Comments from Norwegian members, please.

[MikeD]

Wishfull thinking ?
Show me an interview, where anybody say that.
Otherwise it is no fact, only an suggestion........

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&featureid=792&desc=%20Corsica%202008:%20Day%20one%20driver%20pre ss%20conference

Duvals mouth. And then put a sock in it.

[Tom206wrc]

Was Mikkelsen disturbed by Gardemeister or was it another reason ??? :confused:

[jonkka]

I have the feeling that at this moment the manu points for Ford is more important than the drivers championship

That is the conventional wisdom, yes. But why Ford doesn't attack for they got almost nothing to lose. Unless they win in Corsica, Ford should score 28 points more than Citroen in just two rallies. That is 14 points per rally and even with 1-2 on both events, Citroen will still score the needed four per rally easily. Subaru is too far behind to take Ford's second slot in case their both cars would retire.

[Tom206wrc]

Problems also for Rautenbach and H Solberg ???? :s

[Mirek]

Henning and Rautenbach also stopped? What a stage...

[MikeD]

Was Mikkelsen disturbed by Gardemeister or was it another reason ??? :confused:


It was reported that Mikkelsen had a smoking tyre, so I don't think Gardemeister had anything to do with it.

[Mirek]

Mikkelsen crashed but continue, he had puncture also. Garde had oil pressure problem and PG crashed.

[Tom206wrc]

Punctures for everybody it looks !!!!! Pirelli tyres show their limit in Corsica ??? :confused:

[OldF]

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=300&featureid=792&desc=%20Corsica%202008:%20Day%20one%20driver%20pre ss%20conference

Duvals mouth. And then put a sock in it.

Duval didn’t say that he has to be behind Mikko. He said that it’s IMPORTANT for Mikko to be second.

[pucky54]

Wheels changing challenge goes to Toni, Andreas was a little slower :D

[MikeD]

]Henning and Rautenbach also stopped? What a stage...

Great :( and all they do is play music on WRR.

[pucky54]

]PG crashed.

Before the stage? Or are you only in the splits, when you are crossing first split point, not starting line?

[jonkka]

Before the stage? Or are you only in the splits, when you are crossing first split point, not starting line?

You're being tracked from the word go but nowadays wrc.com splits don't show drivers until they've passed 1st split point.

[MikeD]

Duval didn’t say that he has to be behind Mikko. He said that it’s IMPORTANT for Mikko to be second.

That's the same. But Wilson said on WRR that after Sordo crashed on SS3 that Duval should focus on the manu points while Mikko was going for second. I don't care if you don't believe it, because I know what i heard and they played the interview a couple of times yesterday.

[Kamikaze]

Duval didn’t say that he has to be behind Mikko. He said that it’s IMPORTANT for Mikko to be second.

Some of the members here (like MikeD) only hear what they want to hear, ignoring all the rest. And then they told the Forum it is a fact :rolleyes:

[Mirek]

Pucky:
11. 10. 16:00 RZ 11 M A8 ANDERSSON P.-G. / ANDERSSON J. (st. č. 12) Šel na 1. km mimo trať. / Went off road at the 1st km of SS 11.

[N.O.T]

so within 1 week Hirvonen managed to be faster on tarmac than duval....now thats improvement...if he goes like that for the rest of the season he might turn into a rally driver by rally GB and actually give Loeb a good competitor to deal with without using cheap tactics...

[pucky54]

]Pucky:
11. 10. 16:00 RZ 11 M A8 ANDERSSON P.-G. / ANDERSSON J. (st. č. 12) Šel na 1. km mimo trať. / Went off road at the 1st km of SS 11.

ah okay thanks

That sucks :p

[MikeD]

Some of the members here (like MikeD) only hear what they want to hear, ignoring all the rest. And then they told the Forum it is a fact :rolleyes:

Pfff and that's comming from Ste898's german cousin :rolleyes: You are so Ford biased that you couldn't recognise facts if they right in front of you!

[Kamikaze]

Someone who is Citroen- and Loeb-biased is the best to tell us the only truth :p ::p ::p :

Your Opinions are not a Fact !!!!

[Mirek]

Stop that useless quarrels, please.

[jonkka]

Who let the kids out of the basement again?

[KKS]

Duval not allowed be in front of Mikko... Now at last stage of day Dudu faster 1.8 at 2nd split - and he be behind Mikko at the end stage!

[MikeD]

Identical times from Loeb and Mikko

[pettersolberg29]

Duval wins a stage

[KKS]

Duval not allowed be in front of Mikko... Now at last stage of day Dudu faster 1.8 at 2nd split - and he be behind Mikko at the end stage!

Oh Duval run at ford limit

[Kamikaze]

Duval not allowed be in front of Mikko... Now at last stage of day Dudu faster 1.8 at 2nd split - and he be behind Mikko at the end stage!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[CWJ]

]Stop that useless quarrels, please.

rallyemagazin in Germany banned Kamikaze I'v heard for useless quarrels against Citroen, destroying all the threads...

[Kamikaze]

Hi martini, nice to see you here :D

[N.O.T]

Is there anyone that believes that Duval is slower to mikko due to skill ?? how they explain what happend in spain then ??

[OldF]

That is the conventional wisdom, yes. But why Ford doesn't attack for they got almost nothing to lose. Unless they win in Corsica, Ford should score 28 points more than Citroen in just two rallies. That is 14 points per rally and even with 1-2 on both events, Citroen will still score the needed four per rally easily. Subaru is too far behind to take Ford's second slot in case their both cars would retire.

M-Sport has to prove that they can beat Citroen. Maybe not this year but in the future, otherwise Wilson would be out of business if Ford pulls out of WRC.

[jonkka]

M-Sport has to prove that they can beat Citroen. Maybe not this year but in the future, otherwise Wilson would be out of business if Ford pulls out of WRC.

Ford's WRC decision will not have much to do with their success in the sport. Ford Motor Co is in severe financial problems and current finance crisis doesn't help that a bit. The fact that Ford Europe is profitable likely won't change a thing if Ford needs to start saving big time. Besides, with climate change debate going on it's questionable whether motorsport actually will help sell cars - plus that car markets are shrinking ever faster.

[Tom206wrc]

Bad SS12 for Urmo Aava :(

[jonkka]

He is in no hurry

[pino]

Is there anyone that believes that Duval is slower to mikko due to skill ?? how they explain what happend in spain then ??

Without Team-orders Duval would be ahead of Mikko by 20 sec ;)

[OldF]

Ford's WRC decision will not have much to do with their success in the sport. Ford Motor Co is in severe financial problems and current finance crisis doesn't help that a bit. The fact that Ford Europe is profitable likely won't change a thing if Ford needs to start saving big time. Besides, with climate change debate going on it's questionable whether motorsport actually will help sell cars - plus that car markets are shrinking ever faster.

With the turnover for a company like Ford, the budget of running a rally team, as M-Sport, is a fart in the desert or pissing in the ocean. If they did decide to quit motor sports it wood not save the company.

[Mirek]

Aava had broken damper.

[OldF]

Without Team-orders Duval would be ahead of Mikko by 20 sec ;)

But not in front of Seb.

[jonkka]

With the turnover for a company like Ford, the budget of running a rally team, as M-Sport, is a fart in the desert or pissing in the ocean. If they did decide to quit motor sports it wood not save the company.

Quite - but company CFO doesn't think like that, it's more along the lines of "when we save, it means that every department saves".

[Buzz Lightyear]

Ford's WRC decision will not have much to do with their success in the sport. Ford Motor Co is in severe financial problems and current finance crisis doesn't help that a bit. The fact that Ford Europe is profitable likely won't change a thing if Ford needs to start saving big time. Besides, with climate change debate going on it's questionable whether motorsport actually will help sell cars - plus that car markets are shrinking ever faster.

i think the majority of ford wrc running costs are covered by abi dabby do, bp, karcher. its the big investment now needed to build a new car that is the "problem". But strong companies who continue to invest in marketing, and invest in technology in the slow times, capture a few % points of market share, and maintain that on the upside, will be stronger in the long run.

[OldF]

Quite - but company CFO doesn't think like that, it's more along the lines of "when we save, it means that every department saves".


That’s right. But for some of the CEO’s it’s easier to cut the costs where it is easier, like motor sports. They are not analysing from where the profit comes from. IMO this would be a major issue for the future promoter to prove that investing in rally gives the money back in a way or another.

BTW, JML is driving quite well at the moment. Maybe driving without pressure suites him better?

[Karukera]

In the interview link provided by MikeD, Duval said in French that it's pointless to push too much because second position is a good result for Hirvonen and even though he gets the second place on the stages, there would be team orders.
He also said he will try to stay in close contact with the lead in case or rain or anything [happenning to Loeb].

Hope this won't drive Kamikaze anywhere near to a mental Hari Kiri though. :s tare:

[René]

In the interview link provided by MikeD, Duval said in French that it's pointless to push too much because second position is a good result for Hirvonen and even though he gets the second place on the stages, there would be team orders.
He also said he will try to stay in close contact with the lead in case or rain or anything [happenning to Loeb].

Hope this won't drive Kamikaze anywhere near to a mental Hari Kiri though. :s tare:

:p

Exactly very good translation: The Duval words are: "Même si je suis deuxième demain, il y aura de toutes façons des consignes et c'est normal car Mikko est bien placé au championnat"

[Corny]

I think Duval could indeed go faster than he does now, but he shows he has learnt from his Citroën mistakes, so Malcolm can give him a works seat for next year's tarmac rallies..

If Ford can build a good tarmac car, Duval is able to be as fast as Loeb I'm sure..

[René]

Duval is very fast on tarmac but when he was at Citroen, he has never succeeded to be front of Loeb!
Each times when he tried he went out of the road...........

[s.loeb]

:) I agree with Renes opinion. If Duval dad C4 also it will be very difficult to catch Loeb!!

[c4]

Eurosport day 1 footage and pics from day 2
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/rally-france-standings-day-2/

[Jaanus]

Hirvonen stopped in stage!

[jonkka]

I think Duval could indeed go faster than he does now, but he shows he has learnt from his Citroën mistakes, so Malcolm can give him a works seat for next year's tarmac rallies..

Yes, Duval has learned and I am very happy for that because it means he can have a shot at a seat. Actually having that seat is much more complicated issue but I think that in the past two rallies Duval has proved that he's dependable driver worth having in your team.

[jonkka]

Oh - Mikko...

[KKS]

Why Conrad and Toni start ahead of Loeb? Or Colin at start SS13?

edit: WRR Tnx :)

[User]

Colin is at the start of SS13. Mikko probably had a puncture. He's currently sixth behind P. Solberg.

[Tom206wrc]

Puncture for Mikko on SS13 ??? :confused:

[White Sauron]

Duval overtook Mikko before split 6.

[Tom206wrc]

It looks like Aava is the 2nd fastest of stage(behind Loeb)currently :)


Edit: he's only the fourth fastest on split4(Latvala is the 2nd fastest now) :mark:

[jonkka]

He can get past Petter and then JML and Francois may let him back to 2nd...

[White Sauron]

Why always Mikko? Puncture while leading on the last day in new Zealand, now again tyres...

[Tom206wrc]

Oops wrong thread :mad:

[KKS]

He can get past Petter and then JML and Francois may let him back to 2nd...

Of course. And no team orders at Ford, that only bad fantasy Citroen boys :D

[tmx]

Noo. ****! Dammit.

[jonkka]

Where is Ostberg?

[jonkka]

Ah, there he is... just no splits...

[Lalo]

Oh no, Mikko.. :(

[jonkka]

Well, of course Mikko must first get past Petter and a minute in three stages... we'll see...

[Tom206wrc]

Where's Pierre Campana, leader of the Corsicans in his Clio S1600 and 2nd overall of the 2wd behind Prokop ??? :confused:

[wwbroe]

Well, of course Mikko must first get past Petter and a minute in three stages... we'll see...

Well, a minute in three (long) stages is not impossible but it will be difficult tough. I guess Solberg is not going to wait for him, and he will also do maximum attack. I guess the two others (Francois and Jari-Matti) won't be any problem. Wilson will tell them to wait and let Miko pass in front. So the big issue is will he be able to pass Solberg or not. :D

[Tom206wrc]

I hope Solberg P will resist and not let past Hirvonen :p :

[wwbroe]

Another problem for Miko is that he probably don't have spare tyre anymore, so if he goes maximum attack, he has to be carefull not to get another puncture, in that case it will be completely over. But let's hope that wont be the case and they will fight it out on the stages. ;)

[Tom206wrc]

SS14 is on the way :cool:

[MikeD]

First Lame Louise at Fuji and now this. An eventful morning.

[jonkka]

We will see, let the battle commence...

[jonkka]

Mikko not overly fast at 1st split

[jonkka]

Nor at 2nd...

[Brother John]

He can get past Petter and then JML and Francois may let him back to 2nd...

I don´t think so. :confused:

[jonkka]

Well, it seems that Mikko isn't even trying...

[Lalo]

Mikko may be playing safe. It's better to take little points than none..

[Tom206wrc]

Oh yes !!!! Petter faster than Mikko on split 2 !!!! Go Solberg !!!! :D

[wwbroe]

Francois is taking it very easy, isn't he?

[jonkka]

Little points (or no points at all) doesn't make any difference to Mikko. He can't lose 2nd place in the championship, nor can Ford so the only sensible course of action is to play rich or poor, push all for win. They have nothing to lose and everything to win...

[Lalo]

Jari-Matti may be pissing in his pants now he's up to 3rd. Even due to Mikko and Dani's misfortune, it's quite an achieve after some rallyes without good results. This is quite a confidence boost.

[Tom206wrc]

Loeb seems to take it easy too at the end of SS14... ;)

[Lalo]

Mikko .6 slower than Loeb

[Tom206wrc]

Oh no 8s at the advantage of Mikko over Petter at split 5 :mad:

Go Solberg :(

[Lalo]

Wow! Francois 17.1 slower than Sèb. Is he taking it VERY easy and relaxes or is there any problem?

[Tom206wrc]

Tirabassi stopped on stage, or just GPS prob ??? :confused:

[KKS]

nooo Petter!!!!

[Tom206wrc]

Petter in prob on penultimate split :eek: ;(

[jonkka]

Maybe there'll be fight over two final stages...

[jonkka]

Uh, no need... And Tirabassi is also missing splits...

[KKS]

Mikko ahead of Petter :( . Ford - start slow down yor drivers. Duval - arrive late at service 12min, Latvala - 9min

[Brother John]

nooo Petter!!!!
Yes, Yes, Yes, again he can´t drive on top a complete rally. :dozey:

[MikeD]

Don't do it Malcom ... it will ruin the championship and fans will run away from WRC in masses. I also have a feeling that FIA won't let another team (Stobart) being a part of team-orders...

[wwbroe]

Don't do it Malcom ... it will ruin the championship and fans will run away from WRC in masses....

Don't they allready? They did it plenty times before in this championship, so i guess they will do it again in France, it really is a farce. :mad:

[Tom206wrc]

Mechanical prob and retirement for Tirabassi :(

[Brother John]

Don't do it Malcom ... it will ruin the championship and fans will run away from WRC in masses....

Yes you or correct MikeD. He lost and that´s the way rally will be.

[Karukera]

The end of the rally will be a looong farcical Ford show. :s tare:

[Brother John]

Mechanical prob and retirement for Tirabassi :(

He took the wrong car to spend his money! :rolleyes:

[Tom206wrc]

He took the wrong car to spend his money! :rolleyes:



Sure the 207 S2000 from BSA in IRC was somewhat...cheaper :p :

[Tom206wrc]

Don't they allready? They did it plenty times before in this championship, so i guess they will do it again in France, it really is a farce. :mad:



For Ste898 it'll be 100% normal the farce will be Citroën and Loeb... ;)

[jonkka]

Sure the 207 S2000 from BSA in IRC was somewhat...cheaper :p :

What is BSA?

[MikeD]

The end of the rally will be a looong farcical Ford show. :s tare:

Hey buddy ;)

I really hope FIA will tell Malcom a little about sportmanship between teams, so that we can avoid Ford making fools of themselves when they will still lose the championship in Japan.

[Tom206wrc]

What is BSA?


Beuzelin Sport Auto...a french team who owns two 207s and one or two whales... ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Ogier is more than 10s faster than Prokop/Campana on split 4 of SS14 :eek:

[jonkka]

Beuzelin Sport Auto...a french team who owns two 207s and one or two whales... ;)

Ok, thought for a moment you misspelled PSA.

[Corny]

Don't they allready? They did it plenty times before in this championship, so i guess they will do it again in France, it really is a farce. :mad:

The times they did it, they didn't need to, and last year they really needed it (Germany, Norway for example) and they did not do it.. Weird

[Helstar]

Mikko is very unlucky eh ... I'm sorry for him but also for this uhm "ability" (who Loeb doesn't happen to miss at all) he will never be a world champion - or at least not until Loeb is there.

[jonkka]

Eurosport day 1 footage and pics from day 2
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/rally-france-standings-day-2/

Will there be the Eurosport review also (the whole rally, 1 hour long that'll be aired Tuesday 22:15 GMT)? I'd be interested in of that 'cause my recorder missed first day action and I can't edit my usual review for archive...

[Sulland]

What is going to happen on the last stages, and what will Wilson Sr decide.

Will Hirvonen get 2nd, or will his guys be allowed to compete ?

Will Petter be able to take back a place ?

Can Mads take 8th from Wilson

Can Mikkelsen take 12th from Gardemeister

Those are the only changes that can happen, if nothing special happens !

How will the final list look like ?

[Helstar]

I think that Wilson will switch Latvala - Hirvonen to maximize Ford manu points (with Sordo out they're still in the game).

Driver championship is gone so.... unuseful to stop Duval also.

[MikeD]

Oh my god. Malcom has just said on WRR that they will move Mikko up to second. Come on FIA - stop this farce now!!!

[Corny]

Oh my god. Malcom has just said on WRR that they will move Mikko up to second. Come on FIA - stop this farce now!!!
It's not Ford's faulth that they have 70% of the cars running in this championship.. If ford steps out, this championship will not survive, so I don't think they will hurt Ford too much ;)

[MikeD]

It's not Ford's faulth that they have 70% of the cars running in this championship.. If ford steps out, this championship will not survive, so I don't think they will hurt Ford too much ;)

Ford needs every credit for all their cars and I am - like others - thankful for that. But using another team (Stobart) who is able to score manu points as a part of a team-order is completely unacceptable. Ford didn't do it in Germany where Duval in hos Stobart finished in front of Hirvonen. I thought that was because FIA had whispered in Malcom's ear that that is not allowed. If Ford does use team-orders affecting the Stobart team then FIA should give Hirvonen a time penalty so that he's moved back into 4th place where he belongs - and that's nomatter how important Ford is to the WRC. If Ford cannot play it fair and safe then they should leave....

[Wim_Impreza]

@ MikeD

Citroën is also not fair when they asked in Catalunya even on Friday afternoon to Daniel Sordo to take it carefully.

[N.O.T]

I would prefer to see ford get the hell away from WRC than ridiculing the sport like that.....I mean the sick dogs don't even have a chance at the drivers title yet they do all these foul stuff.

[MikeD]

@ MikeD

Citroën is also not fair when they asked in Catalunya even on Friday afternoon to Daniel Sordo to take it carefully.

I think there is a massive difference. What a team does internally is one thing and Citroën didn't have their drivers switch position. In this case with Ford, not only do they switch their own drivers but they also involve another driver outside the BP Ford team. That is a massive difference.

[jonkka]

maximize Ford manu points (with Sordo out they're still in the game).

Do your math and you'll see that Ford's chances are practically gone.

[Wim_Impreza]

I think there is a massive difference. What a team does internally is one thing and Citroën didn't have their drivers switch position. In this case with Ford, not only do they switch their own drivers but they also involve another driver outside the BP Ford team. That is a massive difference.

Indeed and if Hirvonen is second at the end of the rally, than is this rally again a whole farce. Thank you Malcolm Wilson :(

Hirvonen is simply not good enough for the WRC title, definately not against Loeb.

[Karukera]

Hirvonen refuses team orders and wants 4th position.
I knew he actually was a Finn in my books.
Duval and Latvala will desobey Wilson's order to respect Hirvonen's decision ?
Now, i want to see the post Ford rally briefing...

[jonkka]

Mikko is in a position where he can say no to Malcolm... Interesting...

[Woodeye]

Hirvonen refuses team orders and wants 4th position.
I knew he actually was a Finn in my books.
Duval and Latvala will desobey Wilson's order to respect Hirvonen's decision ?
Now, i want to see the post Ford rally briefing...

Are you speculating or telling something heard from radio?

[René]

Are you speculating or telling something heard from radio?

http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=2947&desc=Hirvonen%20against%20position%20switch

[MikeD]

Good sportmanship by Mikko. Let's hope he will get it his way.

[Karukera]

I was being sarcastic though, i'd like to see the sport win but i don't see 3 Ford boys desobeying the big Father chief.

[Daniel]

Good sportmanship by Mikko. Let's hope he will get it his way.
Me too. +1 to Mikko for this :)

[MikeD]

Duval picks up 2 min penalty because Fords asks him to start early. This is pathetic. Guess what finger I want to show Malcom right now.

[Larry_Japan]

Latvala in late too... takes a penalty... Mikko up to 2nd. Will be ashamed to be on the podium, I guess

[MikeD]

Write you complaints to the patchetic losers at M-Sport

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/contact.html

[Mirek]

Does Malcolm think such comedies make WRC more atractive and more popular for the people all around the world? They complain about low TV coverage etc. but what do they want to show on TV?

[jonkka]

No matter what, Loeb wins! (again)

[Ghostwalker]

Malcom shows his ugly side side again. atleast Loeb is home safe

[N.O.T]

lets hope this is the last season of this pathetic factory team.

[Ghostwalker]

please fim give Ford a big manufacturing points penelty.

[Karukera]

Duval picks up 2 min penalty because Fords asks him to start early. This is pathetic. Guess what finger I want to show Malcom right now.


Mike ! ;) Let's keep it in some decency here. Just show them your ar$e as a bonus ... :s tare:

[RS]

This is really what WRC needs isn't it. Pathetic tactics again. Great. Do you think Mikko will be happy to win a championship this way. Are team orders even allowed when it is Stobart and not the works team? Guess it would be hard to prove though..

[jonkka]

Latvala takes too much penalties?

[Daniel]

Duval picks up 2 min penalty because Fords asks him to start early. This is pathetic. Guess what finger I want to show Malcom right now.
What a sad man Malcolm is. Let the championship go and lose with dignity dude......

[jonkka]

Petter helps Ford too... :eek:

[Brother John]

lets hope this is the last season of this pathetic factory team.

Then Subaru must stop also, that´s a real pathetic team, that need 4 years to build still a crap rallycar. :o

[White Sauron]

Stop moaning, do you really believe that Citroen wouldn't have done such a thing had Loeb been behind Sordo, Aava and Crashtenbach after a puncture? Oh, sorry-sorry, I always forget, that Citroens are completely innocent, in any situation...

[wwbroe]

What a pathetic team, great work by Wilson once more. And the greatest thing about all this is that Citroen and Loeb will be the champion's after all. If this is the way to make the WRC attractive again, i think we are not on a good way at all, but that is just my personal honoust oppinion off-course.
Great rally by Sebastian once more. :D

[Tom206wrc]

Well you all guessed what Malcolm Wilson asked to Duval and Latvala... ;)

[Daniel]

Stop moaning, do you really believe that Citroen wouldn't have done such a thing had Loeb been behind Sordo, Aava and Crashtenbach after a puncture? Oh, sorry-sorry, I always forget, that Citroens are completely innocent, in any situation...
You can't accuse someone of being guilty of a crime they've never committed. Perhaps Citroen would do the same but they haven't so it's meaningless.

[Tom206wrc]

Petter helps Ford too... :eek:




There's an agreement between british teams to try to stop the french one :D

[MikeD]

What a sad man Malcolm is. Let the championship go and lose with dignity dude......

Exately. There's nothing wrong with losing with dignity. I have a feeling though that FIA will react to this. After all Formula 1 suffered big time after Austria 2002, and so will the WRC. And the most sad part is that it's taking focus away from Loeb's impressive victory and the fact that's he's the only one deserving this years championship.

[wrc_flipper]

Don't really get what everyone is moaning about.
Its a team sport and they done what is best for the team. If you are playing by the rules what is the problem!
The crew with the better advantage from points took the best position from crews that would not have helped the team.

[Kamikaze]

You can't accuse someone of being guilty of a crime they've never committed. Perhaps Citroen would do the same but they haven't so it's meaningless.

You forgot: "And if they will do it, they only do it because Ford has done it first" ;)

[Brother John]

Don't really get what everyone is moaning about.
Its a team sport and they done what is best for the team. If you are playing by the rules what is the problem!
The crew with the better advantage from points took the best position from crews that would not have helped the team.

Yes i agree, blame the F.I.A. for the stupid rules! :p :

[RS]

Don't really get what everyone is moaning about.
Its a team sport and they done what is best for the team. If you are playing by the rules what is the problem!
The crew with the better advantage from points took the best position from crews that would not have helped the team.

Techincallly speaking, Latvala is not driving for the same team.

[COD]

Latvala takes too much penalties?


No, Team points to Ford rather than Stobart

[Xsara Fan]

BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford teams must be banned for this decision. It`s the worst day in modern rally history. This year is the 'Cheater`s Ford Year' for me.

But thank God that the first driver in BP-Ford is Hirvonen not Matt Wilson. It would be more funny...

[bluuford]

Actually FIA probably likes this decision and ISC as well.. They are interested that at least on of the titles wont be decided before the end of year.

[René]

"Win is less joyful than we believe it and defeat less sad than we say it"

Sénèque to Lucilius

[Brother John]

BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford teams must be banned for this decision. It`s the worst day in modern rally history. This year is the 'Cheater`s Ford Year' for me.

But thank God that the first driver in BP-Ford is Hirvonen not Matt Wilson. It would be more funny...

Let me not laugh, at Citro they are holy! :andrea: :p : :rotflmao:

[René]

dbl post

[shaitan]

not blame fia
just Malcolm Wilson sucks

[wrc_flipper]

BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford teams must be banned for this decision. It`s the worst day in modern rally history. This year is the 'Cheater`s Ford Year' for me.

But thank God that the first driver in BP-Ford is Hirvonen not Matt Wilson. It would be more funny...

Don't think you can be banned for a non existent rule, but some people views but I'm sure the FIA could come up with something.
Don't really see what the fuss is about - Ford may not get the Spirit of the Rally award this event - but they done what they needed to do.

[Xsara Fan]

Let me not laugh, at Citro they are holy! :andrea: :p : :rotflmao:

Laugh? Take a look at the results of the rally before SS16 and after SS16. And then let`s talk about 'laugh'.

[Brother John]

not blame fia
just Malcolm Wilson sucks

The F.I.A. make the rules. is that so difficulty to understand? :s mokin:

[MikeD]

Well done Ogier. Champion in his first year and now a WRC drive awaits at Rally GB this year.

[KKS]

Mikko ahead of Petter :( . Ford - start slow down yor drivers. Duval - arrive late at service 12min, Latvala - 9min

No Driver Control Reason Penalty
4 François DUVAL (B) TC 16 2 M EARLY AT TC 16 2:00
8 Jari Matti LATVALA (FIN) TC 16 9 M LATE AT TC 16 1:30


Malcolm you rock!!! :D

[KKS]

BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford teams must be banned for this decision. It`s the worst day in modern rally history. This year is the 'Cheater`s Ford Year' for me.

But thank God that the first driver in BP-Ford is Hirvonen not Matt Wilson. It would be more funny...

Agree... Like Sainz at Australia!

[shaitan]

The F.I.A. make the rules. is that so difficulty to understand? :s mokin:
no b.j. it's clear.

Malcolm Wilson make the decision that worst one for rally this year,that's all.

[Tom206wrc]

Well done Ogier. Champion in his first year and now a WRC drive awaits at Rally GB this year.



Fantastic result for him indeed !! :up:

[tmx]

ROFL, so he get's 2nd after all.

[Xsara Fan]

No Driver Control Reason Penalty
4 François DUVAL (B) TC 16 2 M EARLY AT TC 16 2:00
8 Jari Matti LATVALA (FIN) TC 16 9 M LATE AT TC 16 1:30


Malcolm you rock!!! :D

I think that BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford are '2008 World Mathematics Champion`s' :)

[White Sauron]

BP-Ford Abu Dhabi & Stobart Ford teams must be banned for this decision. It`s the worst day in modern rally history. This year is the 'Cheater`s Ford Year' for me.


Complete bulls..t. The FIA regulations don't state anything concerning team tactics and help received from a different team. Stop moaning. It doesn't change anything. And I'll look at you when Citroen applies a similar strategy when someday they are behind their rivals.

[Karukera]

Excellent result for both Sebs. A superb classic tarmac rally with a beautiful and impressive scennery.

Loeb now only needs to score 6 points while Citroën needs 13 units.

Ford will go all for blood in Japan, Loeb will go for 3rd position so he could be relaxed to fight for the win in Wales.
Barring the Fat lady thing, Big Seb should be crowned in an eventful Japan Rally.
My feeling is that the manu title will go down to the wire in the Welsh fog.

Bravo Seb Ogier ! :up:

[KKS]

Complete bulls..t. The FIA regulations don't state anything concerning team tactics and help received from a different team. Stop moaning. It doesn't change anything. And I'll look at you when Citroen applies a similar strategy when someday they are behind their rivals.
Oh ford-boys u complatle ill. FIA regulations be at Portugal too, but u sing another song that time :D .

[Woodeye]

Oh, Malcolm, Malcolm. Now you did the wors possible thing for WRC. Hope that you are ashamed because of this. It's not only all spectators, media, fans, other teams that you've pissed now. You also have now 3 pissed drivers in your team as well.

Decicions like these really are the last nails to this coffin.

Way to go. :down:

[alexlake]

Oh, Malcolm, Malcolm. Now you did the wors possible thing for WRC. Hope that you are ashamed because of this. It's not only all spectators, media, fans, other teams that you've pissed now. You also have now 3 pissed drivers in your team as well.

Decicions like these really are the last nails to this coffin.

Way to go. :down:

Well said. We are being robbed as fans. What was the point of me going to spain last week, if I knew the results would be fiddled!

[ProRally]

Well said. We are being robbed as fans. What was the point of me going to spain last week, if I knew the results would be fiddled!

Malcolm does not care about us fans or supporters, he just cares about his bankaccount....

[alexlake]

Malcolm does not care about us fans or supporters, he just cares about his bankaccount....
I know a business is a business and needs to make money, but without fans, there is no sport! Wilson should look at the bigger picture!

[AndyRAC]

I don't know why I was surprised, but for some reason I was. As a subscriber to the Text service, with one stage to go it seemed like a Loeb win Duval 2nd, Latvala 3rd, Hirvonen 4th. As the time differences were so big I honestly didn't think Wilson would do what he did. But when the next text came through,I couldn't believe it. It just makes the sport look a joke.

[bennizw]

I know for a fact that money is the only thing in is mind. I was told a story where Henning Solberg on purpose left a 30 euroes on the floor, to prove this face. When Malcolm came in the room, Henning pointed at the money and said : "Look Malcolm, there's money on the floor". Malcolm then jumped to the floor and put the money right in his pocket and walked away....

[alexlake]

I don't know why I was surprised, but for some reason I was. As a subscriber to the Text service, with one stage to go it seemed like a Loeb win Duval 2nd, Latvala 3rd, Hirvonen 4th. As the time differences were so big I honestly didn't think Wilson would do what he did. But when the next text came through,I couldn't believe it. It just makes the sport look a joke.

I was exactly the same! :D

[AndyRAC]

Are team orders allowed? After Melbourne 1998, Austria in 2002, I thought the F1A had banned them. Or is the WRC exempt? Also, I'm not sure about another team being involved - i;e Stobart - yes I know Latvala is normally a 'works' driver, but something isn't right. Telling Duval to drop time is one thing - asking another team - albeit another Ford, is another.

[alexlake]

So do people think that there is nothing anyone can do or say? (not knowing the finer points of racing regulations!)

[René]

It is a great pity that sports are done in that way, but, even with such methods, Mr Wilson will not avoid his destiny. :cool:
As from today, nobody will never look at him like before. :mark:
Remember, Malcom Wilson is sportingly dead today........... :rolleyes:
It is up to each to favour the right to dignity rather than right to be the strongest. ;)

[N.O.T]

It is a great pity that sports are done in that way, but, even with such methods, Mr Wilson will not avoid his destiny. :cool:
As from today, nobody will never look at him like before. :mark:
Remember, Malcom Wilson is sportingly dead today........... :rolleyes:
It is up to each to favour the right to dignity rather than right to be the strongest. ;)

for me all his dignity was lost at turkey...this was no surprise...a scared little kid will never become a man no matter what.

[klm-607]

Team orders/Tactics SUCK & should be banned!! Malcom Wilson is classless!

[jens]

But thank God that the first driver in BP-Ford is Hirvonen not Matt Wilson. It would be more funny...

:laugh: It would be amusing to witness Matthew, who is struggling to get a point, suddenly emerging on the podium after the mass of Fords have slowed down.

[RS]

:laugh: It would be amusing to witness Matthew, who is struggling to get a point, suddenly emerging on the podium after the mass of Fords have slowed down.

Now now.. Matthew's drive was really impressive according to Malcolm. He was only 9 minutes off the pace. But I suppose going slowly impresses Malcolm as he like his drivers to do it quite a lot.

[Daniel]

Now now.. Matthew's drive was really impressive according to Malcolm. He was only 9 minutes off the pace. But I suppose going slowly impresses Malcolm as he like his drivers to do it quite a lot.

Nice one Ron :laugh:

[AndyRAC]

I'm sure Matt's a nice bloke, but 9 mins off the pace is no great achievement, and he can just about get in the points - all of this when the WRC is particularly weak. Surely Meeke and Wilks would do better. This is now his 3rd year - and in all honesty, he isn't a whole lot better. Though I'm prepared to eat my hat.

[Xsara Fan]

Great plan for Malcolm!
1. Give Ford Focuses for all drivers including Loeb.
2. Slowing down all of them to made Mattew a winner of all rallyes.
3. Mattew become a World Rally Champion!

My congratulations...

[ShiftingGears]

Sadly, the WRC is horribly uninteresting for me. Such a waste of potential.

[GigiGalliNo1]

wait.... so who won the rally?

i haven't followed a rally since.... that one Loeb won...

probably Turkey I stopped watching... just some random look ups on wrc.com

[bluuford]

I have a good idea. We have been trying to find good way for the road position issue and superally issue and for all different kind of issues. I found the solution.

Have you ever played golf?

Well lets all forget those timings and all that stuff and do it as follows.

We are still measuring the times on special stages but we wont summarize those times. First on SS gets -1 point second place gets -2 points... and 32 place gets -32 points. When you are late from service then you get -1 point for each 10 seconds you were late and you get -10 points when you are 1 minute early to time control. Jump start is also -1 point.
Superally is also very easy one. When there are 61 competitors left then you get -62 points when there are 55 competitors left at the end of next stage, then you will get -56 points.
That gives the advantages for those who are unlucky and retire at the end of Saturday. Then they got less minus points than those who retire at the end of last stage on Friday.

Then we can see really hard fight on each SS for the first position and we can eliminate stopping at the end of first and second leg.. you never know how many competitors are faster than you :-) very special ones will be SSS-es you can loose a lot there!
And most probably there will be really hard fight until the end for all positions. Then we cannot count the time differences that can be measured in minutes.. then it is just some points that can be easily lost and hardly won.
Just for completing my idea I tried this system for Corsica.
results are as follows:
1. Loeb -18 pts
2. Duval -68
3. Hirvonen -74
4. Latvala -76
5. Solberg -117
6. Aava -137
7. Atkinson -141
8. Wilson -165
9. Ostberg -185
10. Mikkelsen -205
11. Solberg -241
12. Clark -243
13. Gardemeister -248
14. Qassimi -250
15. Rautenbach -260
16. Andersson -287
17. Jones -298

Only change would have been Aava and Atkinson and bigger changes outside the top 10.

There are quite a many stupid rules. Why not to add another one :-P

[pantealex]

Burkart wins WRC drive with C4
http://wrc.com/resources/J-WRC%20Corsica%20Round-up%2012.10.08.pdf

"But his points total sees him finish second in the J-WRC and, under the rules of Citroën’s C2 Junior Experience, he wins himself a drive in a C4 World Rally Car on one event next year."

[c4]

More pics and videos
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/photos-video-tour-de-corse/

http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/tour-de-corse-2008-results/

[ChickenMcNugget]

One way to look at this situation is to consider that Ford and Citroen pay their money and make their respective choices. Ford have invested in an M2 team or two and have the luxury, should the need arise, as indeed it has, to use them as they wish. If you want to win, you can hardly be so naive as to miss a trick. Ferrari in F1 redefined the boundaries of these kind of sporting morals at Austria 2002 and elsewhere, and did so with as good as zero punishment, so as far as I am concerned, Ford are entitled to play to this legacy as they will.

[SubaruNorway]

Here's the inboards from Corsica. Maybe someone could translate what Garde and Tomi are saying while chasing Tirabassi :P

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Inboard-Rally-Corsica-ss1_191749.htm
car chase at the end of this one.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Inboard-Rally-Corsica-ss7_191758.htm

[giangino]

Photo rallye Tour de Corse online http://www.avetowrc.com

[bennizw]

It seems Garde and Tomi had a lot of fun anyway, any Finns who can translate for us? :)

[jonkka]

"He (Tirabassi) drives very slowly, how can he be so slow"
"Overtake him with sides touching - rallycross style"

[Helstar]

rotfl

How did Tirabassi lose 2 min in that SS ?

[SubaruNorway]

"He (Tirabassi) drives very slowly, how can he be so slow"
"Overtake him with sides touching - rallycross style"

Yeah sort of got that one, the rest is to bad to translate or..?

[jonkka]

Yeah sort of got that one, the rest is to bad to translate or..?

Mostly just stage notes, nothing important.

[jonkka]

Hey Rallybuzz,

do you (or anyone) have yesterday's Eurosport complete Corsica review?

[c4]

Hey Rallybuzz,

do you (or anyone) have yesterday's Eurosport complete Corsica review?

Hi Jonkka I do,

unfortunately never found out when the 1hr programme was on Eurosport and it's probably been on already.

Day 3 Eurosport coverage from youtube included in this article
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/duval-unsure-2009-wrc/