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View Full Version : Could be very ironic... Lewis Tyre gamble.



blakebeatty
14th September 2008, 01:17
Last years championship for Lewis Hamilton was lost, arguable, in China when McLaren left him out one to many laps on intermediate tyres...

Now, Monza, Lewis has been relegated to P16 because a gamble to put hm on intermediate tyres blew up in the faces of McLaren.

Imagine if Massa could take the championship lead this weekend, retain it, and win the WDC.

Would it not be incredibly ironic that a decision to keep Hamilton on intermediate tyres cost him consecutive championships?

Hawkmoon
14th September 2008, 01:22
Last years championship for Lewis Hamilton was lost, arguable, in Japan when McLaren left him out one to many laps on intermediate tyres...

Now, Monza, Lewis has been relegated to P16 because a gamble to put hm on intermediate tyres blew up in the faces of McLaren.

Imagine if Massa could take the championship lead this weekend, retain it, and win the WDC.

Would it not be incredibly ironic that a decision to keep Hamilton on intermediate tyres cost him consecutive championships?

Yes it would but in both cases the fault lies with Hamilton. He spun off in the pitlane in China and he failed to get a lap time on full wets yesterday. In both cases the team let him down but he wasn't able to help himself in either occasion.

markabilly
14th September 2008, 02:22
L

Would it not be incredibly ironic that a decision to keep Hamilton on intermediate tyres cost him consecutive championships?


No.

What would be incredible ironic is that HK finds the right feel and set up, and Hamster for the good of the team and to keep those trophies rolling into Ron's trophy case, he has to support HK.....but of course we all know what happens when he don't get his number one status......

Otherwise, the answer would be never brag about your talents and results before the race is run.....

tinchote
14th September 2008, 02:26
I'm still struggling to understand why LH, KR, and FM were so slow compared with HK and the Red Bulls, Williams, BMW. I assume it is a setup issue, but I would like to have more precise information.

truefan72
14th September 2008, 02:30
it was raining harder when they tried to set their times. Missed the window of opportuninty

Tazio
14th September 2008, 02:33
Last years championship for Lewis Hamilton was lost, arguable, in China when McLaren left him out one to many laps on intermediate tyres...

Now, Monza, Lewis has been relegated to P16 because a gamble to put hm on intermediate tyres blew up in the faces of McLaren.

Imagine if Massa could take the championship lead this weekend, retain it, and win the WDC.

Would it not be incredibly ironic that a decision to keep Hamilton on intermediate tyres cost him consecutive championships?
The answer to the question you pose IMO is yes!

BUT..... What would be really amazing is if he got clocked from behind on lap one, at the first chicane by (you fill in the blank) and after the race is quoted praising the driver of the car that hit him for "having the balls" to brake so late! :beer:

truefan72
14th September 2008, 02:52
The answer to the question you pose IMO is yes!

BUT..... What would be really amazing is if he got clocked from behind on lap one, at the first chicane by (you fill in the blank) and after the race is quoted praising the driver of the car that hit him for "having the balls" to brake so late! :beer:

LH outbraked kimi and passed him, kimi in turn hit him and tried to spin him out.
so if massa got outbraked and was passed and then got into a collision with that driver resulting in his exit from the race, then your quote would be related to the Spa incident. Otherwise the reference doesn't jive. :cool:

Tazio
14th September 2008, 03:19
the reference doesn't jive.
But we think it do ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrQTh_Cq7U

truefan72
14th September 2008, 03:22
But we think it do ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOrQTh_Cq7U

LMAO where did you dig this up

funny, I probably laughing for all the wrong reasons,

kalasend
14th September 2008, 04:46
I'd say it's not that bad of a grid config. Especially if KR is the type of person who needs pressure to perform. He said he's in it for the wins for the rest of this season. Now would be a good time for him to show, in front of the homies. He could do this kind of job before. Now that he need not be safe with the points. I expect him to duke it out with LH in the mid pack.

Dave B
14th September 2008, 09:53
We know that Hamilton underperformed because he was on the wrong tyre.

So what was Kimi's excuse?

ioan
14th September 2008, 09:54
LH outbraked kimi and passed him, kimi in turn hit him and tried to spin him out.
so if massa got outbraked and was passed and then got into a collision with that driver resulting in his exit from the race, then your quote would be related to the Spa incident. Otherwise the reference doesn't jive. :cool:

Why the need to involve Massa in this? Are you obsessed with him or what?! :laugh:

ioan
14th September 2008, 09:57
We know that Hamilton underperformed because he was on the wrong tyre.

He was on full wets exactly at the time when Massa posted a top 10 time, and Lewy who was only a few seconds behind fell short by 3 seconds!
He wasn't on the wrong tires, he just didn't had the concentration cause he was stressed and afraid that he won't make it. Talk about cracking under pressure!

Ranger
14th September 2008, 09:58
We know that Hamilton underperformed because he was on the wrong tyre.

So what was Kimi's excuse?

Hamilton was rubbish today even when he was on the right tyre.

ArrowsFA1
14th September 2008, 10:01
Imagine if Massa could take the championship lead this weekend, retain it, and win the WDC.

Would it not be incredibly ironic that a decision to keep Hamilton on intermediate tyres cost him consecutive championships?
Teams do get things wrong during the course of a season. It's not so long ago that Ferrari fans were heavily criticising their team for poor strategy calls, but it's minimising the effect of such errors that wins championships.

This time it was Hamilton and his engineer who made the wrong call and suffered because of it. Still, the race has not been run yet, and he still has an opportunity to score points. With Massa not ideally placed to take advantage, although obviously in a better position than LH, and the uncertain weather anything can happen today.

ArrowsFA1
14th September 2008, 10:17
He wasn't on the wrong tires, he just didn't had the concentration cause he was stressed and afraid that he won't make it. Talk about cracking under pressure!
He was on the wrong tyres at the start of the session, and that determined the outcome.

Lewis Hamilton:

You can imagine going out when it's a bit drier it's a lot easier to get temperature into the tyres and maintain the temperature. And if you keep going if it gets wet you've already got temperature in the tyres. I didn't have temperature in the tyres to start with.
Now, Hamilton and his engineer made the mistake of trying intermediates first which was a gamble. It didn't work. That's it. Nothing to do with being "stressed" or "cracking"; just a simple gamble that didn't work and he paid the penalty.

Now what Hamilton has to do is minimise the damage that mistake could make in terms of the WDC race.

ShiftingGears
14th September 2008, 10:27
We know that Hamilton underperformed because he was on the wrong tyre.

It's a convenient explanation to use, if you are ignoring the fact that Hamilton was significantly slower than the other drivers in Q2 even when he was on the same tyres as they were, at the same time.

Dave B
14th September 2008, 10:35
It's a convenient explanation to use, if you are ignoring the fact that Hamilton was significantly slower than the other drivers in Q2 even when he was on the same tyres as they were, at the same time.
Which is explained by the quote Arrows posted above. Yes it was mainly Lewis' cock-up and I'm not excusing him, but from that moment on his qualifying was ruined.

Tonieke
14th September 2008, 10:41
Now, Hamilton and his engineer made the mistake of trying intermediates first which was a gamble. It didn't work. That's it. Nothing to do with being "stressed" or "cracking"; just a simple gamble that didn't work and he paid the penalty.

Now what Hamilton has to do is minimise the damage that mistake could make in terms of the WDC race.

we will see today if the setup they used yesterday was that much of a mistake..just watching Porsche supercup..conditions look different from yesterday...

so if some teams took the gamble and went for the more dry set up they..if the conditions stay like they are right now..have a way more advantage over the whole duration of the race than the disadvantage they got to just go for the one fast lap in qualifying !

ioan
14th September 2008, 10:50
He was on the wrong tyres at the start of the session, and that determined the outcome.

Not really, Massa posted his top 10 lap at a moment when the condition were worse as at the beginning of Q2, and at the same moment Hamilton was 3 seconds/lap slower.

Hawkmoon
14th September 2008, 11:30
Hamilton being on the wrong tyre prevented him from running at the optimal (to use some Ronspeak) time to set a good lap time. It didn't prevent him from getting into Q3. His rubbish performance did that for him.

That said, Brockman's question is valid. What was Raikkonen's excuse? He was on the track at the right time and still posted a rubbish time. Sure he was faster than Hamilton at the end but his performance was rubbish too. Just not quite as bad as the Brit's.

ArrowsFA1
14th September 2008, 12:42
Not really, Massa posted his top 10 lap at a moment when the condition were worse as at the beginning of Q2, and at the same moment Hamilton was 3 seconds/lap slower.
For reasons already explained. To emphasise yet again, other drivers including Massa remained on wets which were therefore up to suitable running temperature, and Felipe just managed to get into Q3 (0.022s quicker than a Force India). Hamilton began Q2 on inters. When he realised that was a mistake and changed back to wets it was impossible to get temperature into them. No temperature = little or no grip. Little or no grip = slow laptime.

It's not hard to understand.

jens
14th September 2008, 16:53
Hamilton's drive in the race was decent and in one moment it even looked like possible to fight for the win (he was right behind Vettel and both had one more stop to make - Lewis' scheduled stop was earlier though), but in the race the strategy didn't quite work out perfectly either.

Well, that's the current "hot-headed" Lewis. Moments of brilliances alternate with serious setbacks. Maybe we should be happy with this, because in this way he's not running away with the championship. :p : But he is still the WDC leader and nothing is lost... yet.

I personally don't think that a single race costs the championship, because the title is won by performance over a full season. Others make mistakes too and the one, who loses, always seeks for reasons, why he didn't win. For example if Massa doesn't win the WDC, he may regret his mistake at Sepang from secure P2. After 1999 European GP it was said that "if Irvine loses the title, he'll surely remember this race, where he didn't have tyres ready..." Etc.

BDunnell
14th September 2008, 16:56
Hamilton's drive in the race was decent and in one moment it even looked like possible to fight for the win (he was right behind Vettel and both had one more stop to make - Lewis' scheduled stop was earlier though), but in the race the strategy didn't quite work out perfectly either.

Well, that's the current "hot-headed" Lewis. Moments of brilliances alternate with serious setbacks. Maybe we should be happy with this, because in this way he's not running away with the championship. :p : But he is still the WDC leader and nothing is lost... yet.

I personally don't think that a single race costs the championship, because the title is won by performance over a full season. Others make mistakes too and the one, who loses, always seeks for reasons, why he didn't win. For example if Massa doesn't win the WDC, he may regret his mistake at Sepang from secure P2. After 1999 European GP it was said that "if Irvine loses the title, he'll surely remember this race, where he didn't have tyres ready..." Etc.

:up:

And there is some way to go yet, including the night race. It has been an incredible season really, really entertaining at times, not least today, and with some great individual performances from Kubica, Glock and now Vettel showing that the future is very healthy indeed.

Daniel
14th September 2008, 18:01
Hamilton's drive in the race was decent and in one moment it even looked like possible to fight for the win (he was right behind Vettel and both had one more stop to make - Lewis' scheduled stop was earlier though), but in the race the strategy didn't quite work out perfectly either.

Well, that's the current "hot-headed" Lewis. Moments of brilliances alternate with serious setbacks. Maybe we should be happy with this, because in this way he's not running away with the championship. :p : But he is still the WDC leader and nothing is lost... yet.

I personally don't think that a single race costs the championship, because the title is won by performance over a full season. Others make mistakes too and the one, who loses, always seeks for reasons, why he didn't win. For example if Massa doesn't win the WDC, he may regret his mistake at Sepang from secure P2. After 1999 European GP it was said that "if Irvine loses the title, he'll surely remember this race, where he didn't have tyres ready..." Etc.
Very true :up:

I think failures in later races are always better remembered though. This is probably down to the fact that at some point in the season teams need to choose a title contender and for instance Spa will be remembered as being when Kimi dropped out of title contention.