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Daniel
7th September 2008, 15:16
Kimi

christophulus
7th September 2008, 15:20
Yep, couldn't agree more

ArrowsFA1
7th September 2008, 15:20
In those conditions...no-one.

Daniel
7th September 2008, 15:21
In those conditions...no-one.
We're talking about the best drivers in the world, not a bunch of people on a corporate day out.

gloomyDAY
7th September 2008, 15:24
Kimi
Wrong! The other Finn, Kovy.

HenryM
7th September 2008, 15:25
kimi!!

Viktory
7th September 2008, 15:26
kovalainen
closely followed by Kimi

TMorel
7th September 2008, 15:26
Heikki gets my vote.
Kimi was more bad luck than bonehead in my view

gloomyDAY
7th September 2008, 15:28
Heikki gets my vote.
Kimi was more bad luck than bonehead in my view :up:

Kimi was fighting for the lead not trying to punt people off for a previous mistake.

wedge
7th September 2008, 15:28
A bit harsh to call Kimi a donkey, IMO.

Both Lewis and Kimi were on the limit, wanting to win the race by take risks so mistakes inevitable.

dwf1
7th September 2008, 15:29
Kimi!!! he had to score points today and forgot that

Daniel
7th September 2008, 15:29
A bit harsh to call Kimi a donkey, IMO.

Both Lewis and Kimi were on the limit, wanting to win the race by take risks so mistakes inevitable.
What else do you call an unforced error while leading the race other than a Donkey move? :confused:

ArrowsFA1
7th September 2008, 15:30
We're talking about the best drivers in the world, not a bunch of people on a corporate day out.
Even so...given the conditions it's hard to criticise. Still, Kimi was the one who made the most costly mistake.

Ranger
7th September 2008, 15:30
Heikki gets my vote.
Kimi was more bad luck than bonehead in my view

Yep.

Tonieke
7th September 2008, 15:34
Kimi surely not honoured his nickname "iceman" there...totaly lost it at the end...almost pushing of Lewis at 2 ocassions !

wedge
7th September 2008, 15:39
What else do you call an unforced error while leading the race other than a Donkey move? :confused:

Unforced error?

Kimi fighting for position with Lewis, was he not under pressure?

Ranger
7th September 2008, 15:40
Kimi surely not honoured his nickname "iceman" there...totaly lost it at the end...almost pushing of Lewis at 2 ocassions !

Fair point. But to make that comparison you have to consider role-reversal in Canada.

Besides:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70381

I don't expect any penalty though.

Robinho
7th September 2008, 15:40
tough to call anyone a Donkey in the conditions, but Kimi spun from the lead and them put it in the wall so if anyone should have the accolade....

Daniel
7th September 2008, 15:43
Unforced error?

Kimi fighting for position with Lewis, was he not under pressure?

Lewis had just gone off and was a few seconds behind probably

gloomyDAY
7th September 2008, 15:49
Lewis had just gone off and was a few seconds behind probablyI think you should remember that we're all armchair experts. You weren't in Kimi's car and had no idea of the difficulty he had on his shoulders. Get off your high horse and quit blaming Kimi for doing his job!

ShiftingGears
7th September 2008, 15:49
Kovalainen. Mediocre, really.

Tonieke
7th September 2008, 15:49
Fair point. But to make that comparison you have to consider role-reversal in Canada.

Besides:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70381

I don't expect any penalty though.

k well yes..Lewis was the "donkey" of the race there...true...Not the best move of his career...But to me difference is...In canada it surely wasn't Lewis's intention to take Kimi out...not so sure about this race incident with kimi here..when he hit Lewis on the right rear tire !

ioan
7th September 2008, 15:52
Close call between Kimi and Heikki!

jeffmr2
7th September 2008, 15:55
I would say the donkeys were the so called fans booing hamilton on the podium.

wedge
7th September 2008, 15:59
Lewis had just gone off and was a few seconds behind probably

But Kimi would've wanted to push open a gap because there was very little separting him and Lewis.

No doubt about it, Kimi races to win. I applaud him for that alone.

Daniel
7th September 2008, 16:02
But Kimi would've wanted to push open a gap because there was very little separting him and Lewis.

No doubt about it, Kimi races to win. I applaud him for that alone.
Only an idiot races when they don't need to.

If Kimi comes out and says he was trying to go and open a gap up he's a lesser driver IMHO

ShiftingGears
7th September 2008, 16:02
But Kimi would've wanted to push open a gap because there was very little separting him and Lewis.

No doubt about it, Kimi races to win. I applaud him for that alone.

He does. Unfortunately the Ferrari is much more recalcitrant under wet conditions than the McLaren is. The wet races this season have proved this.

truefan72
7th September 2008, 16:08
1. Rosberg. Rosberg, could have, and in a way did, affect the outcome of the race. we all saw what happened.

2. kimi. harsh, but fair. he could have backed off a bit and gotten a solid 8 points, but then again, who knows what would have happened in the last lap if he pushed LH.

3. All those drivers p.4-8 who didn't come in for inters, any one of them would/could podiumed the race is they had pitted for tires. At heidfeld's pace, if he had another lap, he would have won the race

christophulus
7th September 2008, 16:09
All those drivers p.4-8 who didn't come in for inters, any one of them would/could podiumed the race is they had pitted for tires. At heidfeld's pace, if he had another lap, he would have won the race

True, but if there were two laps remaining I reckon everyone would have pitted anyway. Gutsy decision by Heidfeld and worked out well for him

Knock-on
7th September 2008, 16:13
Kimi just tried too hard to live with Lewis in the wet but at least he tried his best. Cant fault him for that.

Heikki had a pretty poor race from start to Finnish :D

(Although did some nice overtakes.

Donkey of the race must go to the FIA for even considering changing one blade of grass of this wonderfull circuit.

elis
7th September 2008, 16:16
Heikki's issues started when he was sandwiched coming round the first hairpin, that's what dropped him so far back as he was forced wide & was subsequently overtaken by a bunch of cars. Lucky for that extra wide run off.

The move for which he was penalised was optomistic to say the least, & I think he realised it but too late, wasn't an intentional act but rather that of a driver trying his hardest to make up places lost. Fortunately both drivers were able to continue. A racing incident.

Personally I wouldn't call anyone a donkey... I mean it's not like us lot could any better ;)

Besides, donkeys are cool, pick a different monika ;)

truefan72
7th September 2008, 16:18
Kimi just tried too hard to live with Lewis in the wet but at least he tried his best. Cant fault him for that.

Heikki had a pretty poor race from start to Finnish :D

(Although did some nice overtakes.

Donkey of the race must go to the FIA for even considering changing one blade of grass of this wonderfull circuit.


yes, how true.

FIA should leave Spa alone. Best race of the year, multiple oevertaking opportunities, endurance, pace and the drivers love it. So what's wrong?

What a race!

harsha
7th September 2008, 16:19
donkey-Heikki hands down...

he could have been in a podium with the speed of the Mclaren..

wedge
7th September 2008, 16:25
Only an idiot races when they don't need to.

If Kimi comes out and says he was trying to go and open a gap up he's a lesser driver IMHO

At the point of the race, it wasn't as if Kimi came out 10s ahead of Lewis.

Would you spend the rest of the race defending someone like Lewis who's a very good opportunistic overtaker or do you push for a gap? If I was in Kimi's shoes I would've gone for the latter.

jens
7th September 2008, 16:53
Kimi has been mentioned here a lot, although if we rate the full race, then it's not so clear-cut, because he was doing great for the majority of the race. But the ending of the race showed that he is not the rainmaster he has been praised to be during years. We have had 3 races this year with rain interruptions and in two of them Massa has turned out to be the better Ferrari driver!

Kovalainen was a bit clumsy too, but I enjoyed his risky racing and a lot of overtaking moves. A shame he got it wrong already at the start and couldn't recover from that.

Maybe Piquet should get a mention here - only one (?), who didn't dare to start on dry tyres and later spun off anyway.. :p :

Mifune
7th September 2008, 17:02
Its a show and it should be entertaining, for those who said Kimi was donkey of the day or whatever you call it, I don't understand your point of view, I want to see gutsy drivers giving it their all, not cautious yacht collectors settling for second and a paycheck. I have as much respect for Kimi finishing in the wall as would if he had finished on the podium, at least he was going for it, both of them were, you should be grateful to them both for entertaining you.
I saw no donkeys today just a few drivers i wish had done better.

Daika
7th September 2008, 17:03
Kovalainen was a bit clumsy too, but I enjoyed his risky racing and a lot of overtaking moves. A shame he got it wrong already at the start and couldn't recover from that.



It is easy if you have a mclaren to overtake the middle pack. It looked nice but put in perspective, his car is full seconds ahead and end up last.

pino
7th September 2008, 17:05
Heikki gets my vote.
Kimi was more bad luck than bonehead in my view

Same here :up:

Daniel
7th September 2008, 17:06
Its a show and it should be entertaining, for those who said Kimi was donkey of the day or whatever you call it, I don't understand your point of view, I want to see gutsy drivers giving it their all, not cautious yacht collectors settling for second and a paycheck. I have as much respect for Kimi finishing in the wall as would if he had finished on the podium, at least he was going for it, both of them were, you should be grateful to them both for entertaining you.
I saw no donkeys today just a few drivers i wish had done better.

Thing is Kimi was in the lead. If he was pushing from 2nd to catch up to the leader I could forgive it but he was in the lead. No need to push. Lewis would still have had a hard time catching him and passing safely with the conditions as they were. It just didn't need to happen.

Knock-on
7th September 2008, 17:08
Its a show and it should be entertaining, for those who said Kimi was donkey of the day or whatever you call it, I don't understand your point of view, I want to see gutsy drivers giving it their all, not cautious yacht collectors settling for second and a paycheck. I have as much respect for Kimi finishing in the wall as would if he had finished on the podium, at least he was going for it, both of them were, you should be grateful to them both for entertaining you.
I saw no donkeys today just a few drivers i wish had done better.

It was a great race on what is possibly the LAST GREAT CIRCUIT.

Plenty of overtaking, drama and excitement.

It's hard to criticise any of the drivers but McLaren must be worndering when their faith in Heikki will be rewarded.

Daika
7th September 2008, 17:10
Thing is Kimi was in the lead. If he was pushing from 2nd to catch up to the leader I could forgive it but he was in the lead. No need to push. Lewis would still have had a hard time catching him and passing safely with the conditions as they were. It just didn't need to happen.

Were you watching the last 2 laps? it ain't a walk in the park. Everbody lost control of the cars, so to claim that Kimi should 'just' hold his position is a lot to ask.

markabilly
7th September 2008, 17:18
HK without question (at least based on what was on TV--as there could have been plenty of others more worthy, but their "donkiness" was not so visible as it weren't shown).

Kim???? Please in a way that was the drive of the race w/o question until the sprinkles began, and then it was more luck for all drivers.....skill had nothing to do with it, esp when Kimi found himself boxed in by backmarkers and ended up in the wall......unless you think real champions just roll over for 2nd place instead of trying to win....

ioan
7th September 2008, 17:20
Were you watching the last 2 laps? it ain't a walk in the park. Everbody lost control of the cars, so to claim that Kimi should 'just' hold his position is a lot to ask.

Did you see Massa lose control of his car?! I certainly didn't.

markabilly
7th September 2008, 17:24
Did you see Massa lose control of his car?! I certainly didn't.


No massa slowed down big time--and I think if SB had pitted, he might well have caught Massa, dspite the lost time in pits.....instead SB ended up like 7th or 8th...

Unfortunately, I suspicion because of size of track, there was much that happenned that we did not see.....

Daika
7th September 2008, 17:26
Did you see Massa lose control of his car?! I certainly didn't.

To be honest (as Schumi would say), i haven't seen much of him. But who is paying attention to Massa on a real racing track (Spa is no valencia)!

F1boat
7th September 2008, 17:40
Kovy. Kimi was trying to win and ended up like a fool, but he fought. Kovy just ruined Webbo's race and embarassed himself in the end of the race, losing a precious point.

ioan
7th September 2008, 17:40
No massa slowed down big time--and I think if SB had pitted, he might well have caught Massa, dspite the lost time in pits.....instead SB ended up like 7th or 8th...

IF Bourdais was such a good F1 driver, than he wouldn't need to be on intermediates to catch a car on grooved tires on a wet track! Not to mention that he lost 4 places during that last lap while the guy you are belittling didn't lost any. :rolleyes:

If you love Bourdais so much than feel free to take him back to the States side of the pond, we have enough good drivers around here.

ioan
7th September 2008, 17:44
To be honest (as Schumi would say), i haven't seen much of him. But who is paying attention to Massa on a real racing track (Spa is no valencia)!

:laugh:
You better pay attention from now on. I prefer a driver who gets results all the year to one that has a good race every 6 months or so.

F1boat
7th September 2008, 17:49
Massa drove smart today. He has become more consistent than Kimi now.

markabilly
7th September 2008, 18:06
IF Bourdais was such a good F1 driver, than he wouldn't need to be on intermediates to catch a car on grooved tires on a wet track! Not to mention that he lost 4 places during that last lap while the guy you are belittling didn't lost any. :rolleyes:

If you love Bourdais so much than feel free to take him back to the States side of the pond, we have enough good drivers around here.

I do not. Indeed, he is French, and that is reason enough to have banned him from being back in the USA and live with there with you.

Scot not Speed was my hero, and I still wish he was there in F1, painted toenails and all. SB ain't half the driver of SNS!!!!

And those last two laps were a question of luck. In hindsight, the smart move for any driver would have been to pit, jump on the intermedes, and go like Heckfire, but that is hindsight.

better hope massa stays in the hunt as he appears to be Ferrari's only hope...shudder shudder.....but if he keeps demonstrating hsi skills at running close behind LH, then bernei will get his wish come true with LH

markabilly
7th September 2008, 18:21
What i am talking about: "In a chaotic final couple of laps, Heidfeld jumped from eighth to third place on the track with what he called a "hero or zero decision" to come in for wet-weather tyres with two laps to go." Autosport

ioan
7th September 2008, 18:39
What i am talking about: "In a chaotic final couple of laps, Heidfeld jumped from eighth to third place on the track with what he called a "hero or zero decision" to come in for wet-weather tyres with two laps to go." Autosport

And what has Heidfeld to do with Bourdais?

pettersolberg29
7th September 2008, 19:08
Donkey of the race: FIA

Jag_Warrior
7th September 2008, 19:15
Donkey of the race: FIA

I agree 110%!

The FIA is beginning to make the ATP seem like a legitimate sporting organization. Are stewards investigated to see if any of them place bets on the races they cover?

Sleeper
7th September 2008, 19:23
Donkeys of the race? No question, its the boneheaded stewards.

Knock-on
7th September 2008, 19:24
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Caroline
7th September 2008, 19:51
Me. For watching this race with the illusion that any incidents would be dealt with fairly.

Gubbi
7th September 2008, 20:01
The miserable fat belgian bxstards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyD5RXEeY8)

Cheers

Daniel
7th September 2008, 20:03
Me. For watching this race with the illusion that any incidents would be dealt with fairly.
That's why I loves you :p

Corny
7th September 2008, 20:36
indeed FIA.. Though I am absolutely NOT an Hamilton fan, this is redicoulus

markabilly
7th September 2008, 20:43
Donkey of the race: FIA


I wonder why you would say that??????

I doubt that this decision will stand in a world of fair appeals, but this is the FIA, you know the one that got no problem with a certain prez, can not measure temperature outside properly, and on and on......so since logic would dictate the opinion does not stand, safe money would be on it does.

Langdale Forest
7th September 2008, 21:29
Both Kimi and Massa.

gloomyDAY
7th September 2008, 21:31
Both Kimi and Massa.Massa? I don't think you were watching the same race I did.

Allyc85
7th September 2008, 21:47
Obviously its the FIA.

Jag_Warrior
7th September 2008, 23:14
I wonder why you would say that??????

I doubt that this decision will stand in a world of fair appeals, but this is the FIA, you know the one that got no problem with a certain prez, can not measure temperature outside properly, and on and on......so since logic would dictate the opinion does not stand, safe money would be on it does.

Well, ya never know. As long as ol' Spanky gets 20 whacks across the heiny the night before the appeal, he might be able to think straight.

markabilly
7th September 2008, 23:21
Well, ya never know. As long as ol' Spanky gets 20 whacks across the heiny the night before the appeal, he might be able to think straight.
Or if RD were to learn to party with the man, well now..... :eek:

jimclark
8th September 2008, 01:47
test

CNR
8th September 2008, 03:06
2. kimi. harsh, but fair. he could have backed off a bit and gotten a solid 8 points,

he could not risk massa getting ahead if he slowed down if the talk is true about him playing second fiddle to massa

N. Jones
8th September 2008, 04:07
It was a great race on what is possibly the LAST GREAT CIRCUIT.

Plenty of overtaking, drama and excitement.

It's hard to criticise any of the drivers but McLaren must be worndering when their faith in Heikki will be rewarded.
Great circuit but I remember the 2007 race being quite boring.

Also, I agree with someone else up above that Rosberg should be the DOTR - he pulled right in front of the two guys fighting for the race lead!

ShiftingGears
8th September 2008, 09:01
IF Bourdais was such a good F1 driver, than he wouldn't need to be on intermediates to catch a car on grooved tires on a wet track! Not to mention that he lost 4 places during that last lap while the guy you are belittling didn't lost any. :rolleyes:

If you love Bourdais so much than feel free to take him back to the States side of the pond, we have enough good drivers around here.

Yeah, Bourdais is truely dreadful for beating Vettel for most of the race. He sucks.

Using that logic, Massa is a terrible driver, because in Nurburgring 2007 he was leading comfortably until it started raining.

ioan
8th September 2008, 10:19
Yeah, Bourdais is truely dreadful for beating Vettel for most of the race. He sucks.

Using that logic, Massa is a terrible driver, because in Nurburgring 2007 he was leading comfortably until it started raining.

Look at it as you wish, IMO Bourdais is not worth what Vettel is worth. And bringing Massa into a discussion about Bourdais shows that you have no way to prove your views about Bourdais' "greatness".

ShiftingGears
8th September 2008, 10:25
Look at it as you wish, IMO Bourdais is not worth what Vettel is worth. And bringing Massa into a discussion about Bourdais shows that you have no way to prove your views about Bourdais' "greatness".

I didn't say he was great. I was using the Massa example to highlight a flaw in your logic. Because I am baffled how you consider a driver running 4th in a Toro Rosso for the majority of the race not "good". Vettel has a clear advantage over many drivers in the rain, but that doesn't make Bourdais' performance throughout the entire race close to mediocre.



Also, seeing the penalty on the news this morning (F1 on the morning news is almost unheard of here) made me reconsider the donkeys of the race. The stewards.

ioan
8th September 2008, 10:37
I didn't say he was great. I was using the Massa example to highlight a flaw in your logic. Because I am baffled how you consider a driver running 4th in a Toro Rosso for the majority of the race not "good".

Sorry but he was running only 5th for the majority of the race. And that was due to him destroying the race of a few drivers when he ran into Trulli's car.
Case closed, for me.

ShiftingGears
8th September 2008, 10:58
Sorry but he was running only 5th for the majority of the race.

First time I've heard "only 5th" and "Toro Rosso" in the same context :p :


And that was due to him destroying the race of a few drivers when he ran into Trulli's car.
Case closed, for me.

He probably damaged Trulli's car, which was an obvious error on his part. But managing to end up that high in the field and staying there for so long was commendable.

ioan
8th September 2008, 11:41
First time I've heard "only 5th" and "Toro Rosso" in the same context :p :


That's because it's the first time someone makes a mistake and puts Bourdais up to 4th! :p :

Garry Walker
8th September 2008, 12:04
I think you should remember that we're all armchair experts. You weren't in Kimi's car and had no idea of the difficulty he had on his shoulders. Get off your high horse and quit blaming Kimi for doing his job!
These people have never raced and they don`t understand true racers.

Maybe they had any idea about how it is to drive on dry tyres in wet, especially when in a car that struggles really badly to heat up the tyres anyway, they would think a bit more.


Close call between Kimi and Heikki!

Funny how you didn`t give DOTR "award" to Massa at silverstone when he kept spinning out every 5th lap.

ioan
8th September 2008, 12:49
Funny how you didn`t give DOTR "award" to Massa at silverstone when he kept spinning out every 5th lap.

Just to make you angry! :laugh:

Donney
8th September 2008, 13:10
Kimi.

Garry Walker
8th September 2008, 15:32
Just to make you angry! :laugh:

Massa is my favourite driver. But I want to be as unbiased as possible, whereas when it comes to certain drivers, you use completely different standards than with others. Massa and german drivers to be precise.

jens
8th September 2008, 18:20
Reading some posts above about Bourdais, then the ultimate conclusion seems to be that if an STR is in P4, it's a great achievement if it's in P5, it's closer to an average performance?! :p :