Wilson - Helio pass

[shazbot]

What is the racing world coming to when a driver has to let another car past into the lead because an official says so? This kind of overly intrusive officialdom has to stop. Drivers need to fight for position (within reason) and this kind of thing depresses me. Fans want to see drivers fighting for position not being handed the lead because someone who's never even sat in a race car says so. :mad:

[The instant classic]

What is the racing world coming to when a driver has to let another car past into the lead because an official says so? This kind of overly intrusive officialdom has to stop. Drivers need to fight for position (within reason) and this kind of thing depresses me. Fans want to see drivers fighting for position not being handed the lead because someone who's never even sat ina race car says so. :mad:
i agree, but i do that the fact that indycar doesnt play faves like other racings do

[The instant classic]

* but i do like that the fact* LOL sorry

[Nikki Katz]

They really should have given him a warning first. I'm a big Wilson fan but he probably shouldn't have won that.

Wheldon's accident worked out well for Dixon didn't it?

[The instant classic]

They really should have given him a warning first. I'm a big Wilson fan but he probably shouldn't have won that.

Wheldon's accident worked out well for Dixon didn't it?
i disagree with wilson prob not winning, helio car fell off, i wolud agree with everyone thats mad over this,, if helio was right on wilson bumer and just couldnt pass him,,but wilson took off after passing helio,

but anyway this gives me some reasons to call into wind tunnel tonight :D

[NickFalzone]

Helio's my favorite driver, but that call was legit IMO. His blocking was egregious, and that call was consistent with race control throughout the season. They had a couple "gimmes" at the start of the year, but by a few races in they were assessing penalties without a warning. The difference is that it was usually to cars much further back in the field. The only aspect of it that I kind of have an issue with is that Helio was in championship contention. If anyone else had done that blocking, I'd agree with the call. But due to his racing for the championship, I can kind of see how Helio should have been given a warning. That said, 20 points or 30 points, Dixon's got the championship.

As far as why 3 was slow, I think he was on fuel mode 1 and Wilson was on 3 or 4. Helio couldn't get knob to turn up hp until he was already caught blocking. IMO the fuel strategies really screw up the racing. These cars also have a "push to pass" style button for full-rich that Wilson could have been on. Barnhart talked about this button last week on Trackside radio. It's not the same power as a turbo boost, but would have been enough for Wilson to make those moves. Otherwise, I think both cars were about the same speed.

[indycool]

Generally, from what I've read, the racing rules on blocking are that you can make one move, not two. When Helio went inside to block, that was his one move. When Wilson swung outside and Helio swung outside to get the angle on the turn, that was the second move. I don't know if the officials explained it that way or not, but that was how they used to explain it when Scott Sharp did it several times.

[Old3Fan]

Helio has been warned about blocking in the past. During drivers meeting prior to every race they are warned about blocking and the penalty for it. Helio was definitely blocking.........therefore Wilson was allowed to take the position. Wilson won legitimately. Learn the rules and live with them. Old3Fan has spoken! End of Story. :)

[FIAT1]

In between concrete walls move like that is idiotic and Wilson was on his tail all the time and after the pass he was gone. Faster driver is a winner. Helios problem was that he was in best [Peske] car beaten by a driver that never raced there and was is a car made of scraps. Justin you are the man!!!

[shazbot]

I guess I'm just old fasioned then. For better or worse racing should be decided on the track not from some air conditioned race control room. From a drivers perspective I'd feel the win had a little of the gloss taken away. Maybe Justin would have got passed, maybe not. Maybe they would have taken each other out. Maybe not. This is what racing is all about in my book. This is a competion between drivers and their machines. Time was when both overtaking and defending was a skill. Of course there are exceptions but you have to take the rough with the smooth.

[DBell]

Helio has been warned about blocking in the past. During drivers meeting prior to every race they are warned about blocking and the penalty for it. Helio was definitely blocking.........therefore Wilson was allowed to take the position. Wilson won legitimately. Learn the rules and live with them. Old3Fan has spoken! End of Story. :)

Agree. If all your going to do is warn drivers, the blocking will continue. Helio's swerve was blatant and he deserved the penalty. If he wanted to hold the lead, then he should've gotten off the corners better and not let Wilson get a great run on him.

Congratulations to JW and NHL. It's been a tough year for them and I'm glad Wilson was able to show why CC fans generally had a high opinion of his driving abilities.

[underpowered]

Wheldon's accident worked out well for Dixon didn't it?

Yes. It did look a bit suspicous to me.

[garyshell]

They really should have given him a warning first. I'm a big Wilson fan but he probably shouldn't have won that.

Wheldon's accident worked out well for Dixon didn't it?

Barnhardt clearly stated that a warning did occur, during the driver meeting.

Gary

[Champcar4life]

The same thing happen in 06 during a Champcar races, trying to remember which one, when Timo Glock was order to move over and let Servia by and by do so Servia pick up his first and only Champcar victory. Back in the CART days Helio was know for blocking I was just watching some old CART Champcar races and he was been warn about the blocking back than, but rules are rules and I like Helio nice guy, but just because he is in the point championship battle doesn't mean that you turn a blind eye, when a rule is been broken.

I feel bad for Helio, but he should been thankful that he came away with a second place finish, it could been worse another driver might not have back out of it, nor brake for that matter in time to advoid contact.

[garyshell]

I feel bad for Helio, but he should been thankful that he came away with a second place finish, it could been worse another driver might not have back out of it, nor brake for that matter in time to advoid contact.

He should feel very lucky it was Justin back there and not PT. Beep, beep goes the chrome horn.

Gary

[gm99]

The same thing happen in 06 during a Champcar races, trying to remember which one, when Timo Glock was order to move over and let Servia by and by do so Servia pick up his first and only Champcar victory.

That was Montréal 2005 (not 06, as Glock would have been in GP2 by then) - that race came to my mind as well. It always leaves a bit of a shallow taste when a driver wins that way, but if Helio really has been warned about his blocking and still continues to do it, the penalty is fair, IMO.

[BobGarage]

i agree, but i do that the fact that indycar doesnt play faves like other racings do

so why have they not penalized danica? she consistantly blocks race after race, taking vitor out of contention this week. Yet gets away with it. No penalty.

For all the penalty free blocking she has done this year they should start her from the back of the grid in Chicagoland.

[ShiftingGears]

Generally, from what I've read, the racing rules on blocking are that you can make one move, not two.

Dreadful call, Helio played by the rules.

[FormerFF]

He should feel very lucky it was Justin back there and not PT. Beep, beep goes the chrome horn.

Gary


Exactly. If you want to have passing, and you're going to prohibit punting, you have to prohibit blocking as well. Otherwise, all the passes will be made in the pits or using fuel strategy.

Tough weekend for Penske, though, first his driver gets penalized for punting one of the Flying Lizard cars in the ALMS race, then Helio gets the call in the Indycar race.

[Champcar4life]

That was Montréal 2005 (not 06, as Glock would have been in GP2 by then) - that race came to my mind as well. It always leaves a bit of a shallow taste when a driver wins that way, but if Helio really has been warned about his blocking and still continues to do it, the penalty is fair, IMO.

Your are correct on that one,I have no ideal why I thought it was 06, but I remember that race and how about Germany 03 I think when Mario D was held in the pits for so many second, because he was warn about blocking seabass and to me it was clean race, but Seabass made some moves that was close to what Mario D was doing and not once was he warn about making move to block Mario D.

[MDS]

Calls like this are great for the series and thank God for them. Personally I still think PT was robbed in 2002, and honestly that's the only thing I remember clearly about that race.

Finally we have a "Controversy" that is racing related and not just coverage of some Danica episode.

I saw it, it was a block, Helio said it was a block. The only question really is Helio got the warning he felt he should have gotten. Honestly, I think that's a bit of stupid logic. You're doing something you know is illegal, but you think you can get away with it because you specifically haven't been warned about it, but it was spelled out in a previous meeting in which you participated.

What I saw was a good race that has generated discussion about racing. Bout time

[NickFalzone]

The fact of the matter is that, out of the fantastic 4 (dw, tk, sd, hc) helio is by far the worst about blocking. He's a good guy out of the race car, but on track he's one of the dirtiest drivers. Usually he doesn't have to race dirty because his car is so good. But this call should not have been a surprise to him, and he should feel lucky he didn't get punted. To say that Wilson shouldn't be able to race him because he's running for the championship is a bad racing mentality.

[The instant classic]

so why have they not penalized danica? she consistantly blocks race after race, taking vitor out of contention this week. Yet gets away with it. No penalty.

For all the penalty free blocking she has done this year they should start her from the back of the grid in Chicagoland.
i wolud agree to penaliazed danica,

but indycar lets her get away with alot more cuz shes a girl,,witch i think is wrong, all driver sholud be treated the same,

but if danica loves to block, wont be long till someone has anuff of her,,and put her in the wall,, some driver need to learn the hard way, :arrows:

[Marbles]

Just another lap in F1 but not in the IRL.

Definitely not a Helio fan and not seeing him climb a fence after the race was okay by me but... it's always hard when the officials make a call like that. I think the SCCA over officiates and to a certain degree, so does the ALMS. I feel that call on Team Penske on Saturday was terrible.

To their (IRL) credit, the call was made swiftly and didn't have fans waiting for laps or even after the race was over to find out what was happening. As Indycool pointed out, one move and maintain it is usually acceptable but as he also pointed out he moved back onto the line. However, Barnhart's point was that Helio's initial move was in response to Wilson's move. This too is a no no.

The only way for Helio to get away with the blocking would have been for him to take that line immediately after he exited the corner and maintain it to the next corner. He did none of this. The AP report also claimed Wilson was blocked similarly three times although I didn't see that.

If there is one blatant blocking move you want for a race official's video tutorial, this would be it!

[DanicaFan]

so why have they not penalized danica? she consistantly blocks race after race, taking vitor out of contention this week. Yet gets away with it. No penalty.

For all the penalty free blocking she has done this year they should start her from the back of the grid in Chicagoland.
First off, Danica DID NOT take Vitor out of contention, why dont you watch the replay of that again..Vitor CLEARLY takes Danica out!!! :mad:

People always accuse her of blocking. They have to find something to pick on her about because she can hang with the front runners at any race. She doesnt do anymore blocking than anyone else does out there its just people love to blame her for some reason. They think she cant do anything right.

As for Helio, there should of only been a warning given, not the penalty. Especially when crucial championship points were at stake. Bad call in my opinion.

[MDS]

As for Helio, there should of only been a warning given, not the penalty.

Helio admits it was a block, knew that blocking is illegal, had been warned against blocking at the driver's meeting and you think he should get a specific warning for doing something he knew was against the rules in the first place?

Wilson walked away from Helio in the last couple of laps. He had a much faster car and Helio knew that. Even if he had gotten a warning the most that would have happened is that he'd keep JW behind him for another lap or two.

[DanicaFan]

Helio admits it was a block, knew that blocking is illegal, had been warned against blocking at the driver's meeting and you think he should get a specific warning for doing something he knew was against the rules in the first place?

Wilson walked away from Helio in the last couple of laps. He had a much faster car and Helio knew that. Even if he had gotten a warning the most that would have happened is that he'd keep JW behind him for another lap or two.
Yes I do. It wasnt anymore of a block than I have seen all year and others got warnings. And Brian said every driver's meeting, there are warnings given out but in those past incidents, almost all were warnings. And this was a crucial race with crucial points at hand for the championship. I just think it was a bad call at a bad time.

[ShiftingGears]

First off, Danica DID NOT take Vitor out of contention, why dont you watch the replay of that again..Vitor CLEARLY takes Danica out!!! :mad:

Is it on youtube?


People always accuse her of blocking. They have to find something to pick on her about because she can hang with the front runners at any race.

By any race, I hope you dont mean the race last week, where she was 10th before she accident. Hardly hanging with the front runners.

[bravefish]

A fair and correct call - the mistake that cost Helio the position was made at the corner prior to the blocking maneuver. Wilson was going to make the pass any way you look at it, the loss of one position is an adequate penalty for the situation. Nobody would be blinking an eyelid if the penalty was over a fight for 15th position and a championship wasnt at stake...

[TURN3]

First off, Danica DID NOT take Vitor out of contention, why dont you watch the replay of that again..Vitor CLEARLY takes Danica out!!! :mad:

I've watched the replay over and over again and the only thing that is clear about the entire sequence of DP coming out of the pits is that she was on cold tires, blocked Viso into the marbles (who crashed a few turns later), blocked Rahal to give Meira the run, blocked Meira to give Rahal the run, then ran out of room to block them both when they split her. She CLEARLY was in total confusion about how to keep them both behind her. Meira's move was optimistic given he was on the outside of 3 cars but he was more than along side her...it was her front wheel that hit is rear wheel and she DID move to the left to make a right hand turn (?) and that is CLEAR. In any traffic accident the ticket goes to the driver behind.

"People", to include most of the drivers, "accuse" her of blocking because she does it all the time. She is by far the worst of the worst when it comes to blocking. She herself has even admitted that "As a professional race car driver I'm entitled to defend my position". That means...BLOCKING.

What Helio did was just as blatant as what Manning got penalized for and just as blatant as the 4 or 5 blocks Danaica threw at 3 drivers on her cold tires. I know it stinks and it is hard to swallow when you're in Helio's position but as many people have pointed out here, the rules are the rules and even he admits he broke them. Just because it's hard to swallow doesn't mean it isn't right.

Helio's incident with J Dub was for a race win and has gotten all the publicity. Given that DP's ludicrous, blantant, and dangerous blocking was for 10th - 12th place, nobody seens to give it much thought. I suspect that if Danica doesn't run into Meira and then somehow stall her car because of the flat front left then she gets the penalty too. They were pretty consistent all day. I'm absolutely certain that Barnhart will be addressing that issue with her by Surfer's. Maybe show Danica the incident with Krosnoff in Toronto. That blocking crap can be dangerous even on street courses.

No specific blocking videos on YouTube but these are good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPKnmSWIDTM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUMIO_X0P14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if5Vq-HisL0

[indycool]

Well, Turn 3, I still haven't gotten the answer to the question about why the drivers felt they could go three-abreast into that corner on a street course. If Danica gives Rahal room, she hits Meira. If she gives Meira room, she hits Rahal. If neither Meira nor Rahal has room, they both hit Danica. Crash waiting to happen.

[seppefan]

A fair and correct call - the mistake that cost Helio the position was made at the corner prior to the blocking maneuver. Wilson was going to make the pass any way you look at it, the loss of one position is an adequate penalty for the situation. Nobody would be blinking an eyelid if the penalty was over a fight for 15th position and a championship wasnt at stake...

and Helio admits he blocked but for some reason thinks he should be given a second warning and it should be allowed as he is fighting for the championship. Strange logic apart from the fact that he should not have beena sleep at the drivers meeting and if he was awake then he was black flagged after a second warning. Basically he was slower than JW and made an unsporting gesture and was docked. Dont do it again. Sad thing here is not only his inability to say sorry but also the fact that Roger Penske did not speak out and admit the penalty was fair.

[DanicaFan]

Turn 3, those videos werent necessary were they?? :confused: Its not like she is the only one who makes mistakes.
As for the last one when she crashed at Kentucky Speedway, that was during practice this year at Kentucky. I was down in her pits when that happened. I got a piece of her car from that incident. Its the right side panel with the Motorola logo.

And the reason for the crash was something broke on the right side of her car causing her to go into the wall. She couldnt steer it. That is clearly evident in the video.

[bblocker68]

Danica isn't penalized because she's not blocking for the lead, period. She blocks the worst when she's about to go a lap down. The IRL needs to enforce blue flags a little better IMO.

Great race, BTW. Good to see JW get a win. It's been a really crappy year for him and NHLR in general.

[garyshell]

What I find telling is Helio expected to get away with a block and be given a warning. It was as if there is a free pass for the first one, so he was going to use it. He knew it was a block, but was counting on race control to let the first one pass with a slap on the wrist. Instead he got a whoop up side da' head. Deservedly so, especially after hearing his explanation afterward that he was counting on the first one being a warning only.

Gary

[JSH]

Danica's incident with Meira was a racing incident IMO. She had nowhere to go.

Helio's move was beyond a block, it was a "I'm putting you into the wall". When you move over a car width, it's a block, when you keep going it's something else.

[pits4me]

i disagree with wilson prob not winning, helio car fell off

He had almost a 17 second lead before Wheldon orchestrated the FCY.


Generally, from what I've read, the racing rules on blocking are that you can make one move, not two. When Helio went inside to block, that was his one move. When Wilson swung outside and Helio swung outside to get the angle on the turn, that was the second move.

This could also indicate their inexperience of officiating street races. Helio pretty much stuck to his racing line except for when JW stuck his nose up the inside. HC's move left was not a blocking move IMO but setting himself up for the turn apex. Had JW tried coming up the outside, he likely would have been in the wall or drawn an "avoidable contact" penatly.

I will add an experienced JW knows how to "draw a foul" and in this case it worked. To bad other drivers didn't have the same influence when trying to pass the Princess of blocking.


so why have they not penalized danica? she consistantly blocks race after race, taking vitor out of contention this week. Yet gets away with it. No penalty.

There were plenty of drivers doing the same to Dixon mid-race, not a hint of help from the officials. A tight street circuit like Detroit would benefit from Cotman's two lane option.

[JSH]

HC's move left was not a blocking move IMO but setting himself up for the turn apex.

It doesn't matter. You can change your line ONCE. You cannot decide to take the inside line and then at the last minute decide ..."actually I need to adjust my line now".

[The instant classic]

He had almost a 17 second lead before Wheldon orchestrated the FCY.



This could also indicate their inexperience of officiating street races. Helio pretty much stuck to his racing line except for when JW stuck his nose up the inside. HC's move left was not a blocking move IMO but setting himself up for the turn apex. Had JW tried coming up the outside, he likely would have been in the wall or drawn an "avoidable contact" penatly.

I will add an experienced JW knows how to "draw a foul" and in this case it worked. To bad other drivers didn't have the same influence when trying to pass the Princess of blocking.



There were plenty of drivers doing the same to Dixon mid-race, not a hint of help from the officials. A tight street circuit like Detroit would benefit from Cotman's two lane option.

i am a helio fan, but i dare say, if his car, was that great, he wolud have passed justin like nothing,, and justin was catching him anyway just alittle,

but as far as, dan orchestrated a yellow, i agree on that one

[pits4me]

What I find telling is Helio expected to get away with a block and be given a warning. It was as if there is a free pass for the first one, so he was going to use it. He knew it was a block, but was counting on race control to let the first one pass with a slap on the wrist. Instead he got a whoop up side da' head. Deservedly so, especially after hearing his explanation afterward that he was counting on the first one being a warning only.

Gary

Most drivers in the paddock are used to getting a warning, especially on tight street circuits where its hard to pass.

The other problem is how penalized drivers can lose 2 positions when they move over because the same officials typically do not mandate the 3rd car hold its position. Kanaan was lurking like a hungry wolf and Helio almost got black flagged because he was trying to protect his 2nd place when letting JW passed.

[garyshell]

Most drivers in the paddock are used to getting a warning, especially on tight street circuits where its hard to pass.

The other problem is how penalized drivers can lose 2 positions when they move over because the same officials typically do not mandate the 3rd car hold its position. Kanaan was lurking like a hungry wolf and Helio almost got black flagged because he was trying to protect his 2nd place when letting JW passed.


And he very clearly said he was attempting to use that precedent to give him a free pass at throwing a block. An extremely blatant block, I think. Rules is rules, and hoping to get by with breaking one just because you have been able to, once per race, all year long is no defense. He got caught out.

And re: the "engineered" full course yellow. Danny boy was complaining of trouble on the radio and another car did spin out at the same time. So, I am not convinced it was engineered, but would NOT put it past the Chipster.

Gary

[TURN3]

Turn 3, those videos werent necessary were they?? :confused: Its not like she is the only one who makes mistakes.

Yes, they were necessary because it shows how incompetent she is, and somebody asked if her incident w/ Vitor was on YouTube (I couldn't find it but those popped up). It's especially funny after she sits in a crumpled car she just crashed under yellow with her hands up as if to say "WHAT?, That's not fair!". Why does she do that anyway? We can all see what just happened...does she think by playing dumb we're not going to figure out she's an amature?

No, she isn't the only driver that makes mistakes, that's part of racing. But the point is you're so unrealistic in your view of her you seem to think she's in contention for winning when she shows up. Do you realize that she has actually never won at ANYTHING save for 1 lottery pick at Japan this year...and even that is something that has been questioned for legitimacy. Fuel run or not, a win is a win in my opinion and all the credit in the world goes to her team for gambling and getting it for her. She competed for 2 years in Atlantics and never led a lap!! She's finishing her 4th year (isn't it?) in IRL and has pretty much been a mid-packer in every race with a few 3rds when attrition and strategy work out for her. Short of Rahal using her to bring Argent sponsorship to his IRL team she isn't even in racing at this point in her career because she darn sure didn't get where she is based on performance!!! She is nothing more than an average driver on her very best day...and a really good marketing tool.

As far as "something broke on the car" and that fact being "clear"...I don't believe they ever determined what is was the "broke". I think she got in the gray and slid it up...big deal it happens. If something would've "broke", she wouldn't have slowly drifted into the wall she would've went straight into the wall. But I guess my 30 years of watching real race car drivers wouldn't qualify me to make that analysis since you were there and got a piece of the carbon fiber huh?

The point of this thread is with regard to Helio's block on J Dub. With respect to those people wishing to discuss it, the only reason for bringing Danica up is because she is a known felon in the blocking world. Had DP and Vitor not touched and eventually both ended up a lap/s down...I think she gets the same penalty as Manning and Castro-Neves for what she did coming out of the pits. Like it or not, she perpetuated that sequence of events while weaving back and forth blocking Rahal and Meira down the entire back stretch to that point. If I were Barnhart, I would've parked her because she ran Viso through the marbles blocking him too. But we'll never know because she stalled it due to a flat front left.

[TURN3]

Well, Turn 3, I still haven't gotten the answer to the question about why the drivers felt they could go three-abreast into that corner on a street course. If Danica gives Rahal room, she hits Meira. If she gives Meira room, she hits Rahal. If neither Meira nor Rahal has room, they both hit Danica. Crash waiting to happen.

My apologies dude...I thought your question was rhetorical. My opinion of the action specifically AT the turn is that all 3 cars were there at the same time. Accident waiting to happen? Absolutely. I don't think you can expect either Danica or Vitor to back out at that point and Rahal had the easy line. Given that Vitor's back wheel got hit by Danica's front wheel/wing, I think it shows he was actually well in front of her at the point of actual contact. I think Danica assumed he wouldn't be there after she slammed the door on him prior and she DID drift left to attempt a better line for the turn after Rahal out braked her. It is racing and I don't fault either of them for the action AT the turn.

What I do have a problme with as I eluded to in other responses is that Danica perpetuated the entire sequence of events when she weaved back and forth blocking both over-taking drivers. (And NO DanicaFan you're not going to deny that happened because if anything was more clear to you in that race other than the fact she wasn't going to finish in the top 10 it is that!). That was absolutely ridiculous and in my opinion the worst of all the blocking manuevers from the day. It was no less 4 or 5 blocks than what Helio did one time. If they were going to be consistent, she should've been penalized just like Helio and Manning but I suppose once she dropped off the lead lap any penalty would've been pointless.

[Marbles]

It's amusing how so many feel he should have got a warning despite what was said at the drivers meeting. I wasn't there but if they stated that every driver gets one freebie block and then we'll nail you I'd understand.

I think Helio should be kissing Barnhardt's shoes for the penalty that was dished out. As bravefish pointed out, he just had to give up his position. A ruling I've only ever seen given to drivers who have passed under a caution or a jump start. Blocking has always been a black flag (stop and go or a drive thru). Where would Helio's championship hopes be now if that had happened.

[wedge]

Just another lap in F1 but not in the IRL.

I personally don't have a problem with the kind of block Helio. It wasn't if he tried squeezing JW into the wall which would've been more controversial.

But rules are rules as you're supposed to block with one move and I feel in F1 Helio too would've been penalized.

[MDS]

I guess I was wrong.

This forum can't have a discussion about racing without pulling in Danica's antics.

[garyshell]

I personally don't have a problem with the kind of block Helio. It wasn't if he tried squeezing JW into the wall which would've been more controversial.

But rules are rules as you're supposed to block with one move and I feel in F1 Helio too would've been penalized.


But he DID try to squeeze JW into the wall. The only reason he didn't was because it was JW driving and not PT.

Gary

[NickFalzone]

I personally don't have a problem with the kind of block Helio. It wasn't if he tried squeezing JW into the wall which would've been more controversial.

But rules are rules as you're supposed to block with one move and I feel in F1 Helio too would've been penalized.

Helio's a notorious blocker, and I'm sure Barnhart had that in mind when he made the call. Watching it a few times though, I'd say that Justin's moves making Helios look worse than they are. Justin was driving very aggressively in road-racer style, while Helio made some adjustments that were moderate in comparison. I don't think that Brian's call was unfair, but I have seen worse blocking result in a warning.

[ShiftingGears]

It doesn't matter. You can change your line ONCE. You cannot decide to take the inside line and then at the last minute decide ..."actually I need to adjust my line now".

So is it like F1 where the rule is one blocking move, or is it changing your line once?

Because there was one blocking move that was in question - then he changed his line to get the optimum line for the corner. So that was one blocking move but technically he changed his line twice. I don't have the regulations, so whats the exact rule regarding blocking?

[NickFalzone]

Doesn't really add anything to the conversation, but this Helio interview with IMS after the race cracked me up. He looks borderline psychotic, smiling and ready to punch someone at the same time:

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1456296417/bclid1460782805/bctid1769458422

[indycool]

ug, that's how the rule was explained some time ago and there's been no indication that it's been changed. I said the same thing earlier in the thread.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Do you guys remember the 2001 Long Beach Grand Prix? Back then, Helio blocked a Newman Haas driver, Cristiano da Matta, just as blatantly as he did with Justin. The officials warned him not to do that again or he would face a penalty. He didn't block again, of course, but Cristiano's golden opportunity to make the pass was gone for good. So a warning in this situation is hardly effective.

Anyway, to answer the original question. Hopefully, the racing world will come to a state where this kind of officialdom is not needed because drivers don't move across the whole racetrack to prevent their faster opponent from overtaking them.

[DanicaFan]

Oh, and Turn3, not to get off topic again about Danica but I had to address your comment about the crash in practice at Kentucky this year. I was there, I was in her garage when they towed it back. I spoke with the pit crew, they said something broke and they were in the process of sorting it out. So, I know it was a mechanical malfunction. Its clear to me in the video, she cant steer it, something broke.

I will talk to them again Saturday and try to find out what it was exactly and let you know. :)

[philipbain]

How anyone can argue that i) Helio's block should have gone unpunished or ii) that somehow Justin didn't richly deserve to win is pure madness. Helio didnt just block, had Justin not have backed out of the move Helio would have crashed him into the wall, so in my view a call to let him by for blocking is getting off with a light punishment. Also the fact of the matter is that Justin was MUCH faster than Helio after the safety car period, the reason Justin wasnt challenging before it is simple - he was saving fuel. once the safety car came in the circumstances had changed and he had the fuel to run flat out, which was at a pace that Helio couldnt live with. The reason that Justin didnt attack again after the block was that his team told him that Helio would have to let him by, so rather than risk the car he simply waited for Helio to oblige.

[mike15]

How anyone can argue that i) Helio's block should have gone unpunished or ii) that somehow Justin didn't richly deserve to win is pure madness. Helio didnt just block, had Justin not have backed out of the move Helio would have crashed him into the wall, so in my view a call to let him by for blocking is getting off with a light punishment. Also the fact of the matter is that Justin was MUCH faster than Helio after the safety car period, the reason Justin wasnt challenging before it is simple - he was saving fuel. once the safety car came in the circumstances had changed and he had the fuel to run flat out, which was at a pace that Helio couldnt live with. The reason that Justin didnt attack again after the block was that his team told him that Helio would have to let him by, so rather than risk the car he simply waited for Helio to oblige.

As sombody above pointed out, Helio has a history of blocking THIS YEAR in the back of the field. It all came together in Detroit when he was blocking for the lead.
It was the correct call.

[namarow]

Helio is an idiot. Its like he hit below the belt as you usually get a free pass if it is not an accident. Then he is furious theref stayed with the rules. And Cindrics moron comment " we supported this series since blah blah blah.

First race I actually watched in a while and I have missed nothing. Idiots

Glad for Paul and Newman Haas though!

[Will Rogers]

If you want the race decided on the track, then don't break the rules. This pathetic whining is the same as dopey hockey fans who say "In the last five minutes of a game we shouldn't have a game decided by penalties--let them play." If you don't want the game decided by penalties, then don't commit one.

[rundgy]

Dreadful call, Helio played by the rules.


BS, Helio is the worst blocker I have ever seen. It's about time he was called on it. If drivers were allowed to block like that there would be no passing and many more crashes. Remember when he wiped out at Watkins Glen and cried because the league was telling him to hold hit line? I think one of his Indy wins he blocked so bad it was sickening. Great call by Barnhart and Wilson deserved the win. Helio's blocks are much more obvious than Danica's!!!!!

[speeddurango]

Nah, blocking is part of the racing really, I always don't get why the blocking is such a sensitive topic in US openwheel racing while it's not really that important for the rest of the world, even not in NASCAR.

[garyshell]

Nah, blocking is part of the racing really, I always don't get why the blocking is such a sensitive topic in US openwheel racing while it's not really that important for the rest of the world, even not in NASCAR.


Oh, I don't know maybe... wait for it... FENDERS! It is a big deal in all open wheel series and of little importance in fendered series.

Gary

[ShiftingGears]

BS, Helio is the worst blocker I have ever seen. It's about time he was called on it. If drivers were allowed to block like that there would be no passing and many more crashes.

I don't think there'd be more crashes - Helio didn't run him into the wall.

There would be no passing primarily due to the fact that the IRL at the moment fancies poky little street circuits over circuits like Road America and Cleveland.

[garyshell]

I don't think there'd be more crashes - Helio didn't run him into the wall.

Only because it was JW and not PT that the dancin' man pulled this crap on. Justin had the sense to back off or they both would have been taken out, with Justin in the wall. Which is precisely why this rule exists.

Why should auto racing be any different from track and field in this regard. In that sport you are not allowed to block your opponent. If they are faster and can get by you must allow them. You don't have to make it easy, you are just not allowed to prevent it. In that sport it is about who is the fastest, not who is the most aggressive. Why should that not be true in auto racing as well. I can understand why it is tolerated a bit more in fendered series. There the blockee has a fighting chance to take on the blocker and dish a bit back, but in open wheel that would be a formula for disaster or worse.

And, mind you, I am not suggesting that you have to castrate the sport either. There is a difference between taking a line that prevents the driver behind you from being able to pass and moving that driver over once they are along side. The latter being CLEARLY what Helio did.

I am a big fan of Helio. I think he is a great driver and personality. But in this case he was flat out wrong, and needed to just shut up and take responsibility for his own infraction of the rules. Which by the way, as far as I know, do NOT stipulate a warning must be given.

Gary