Marco Melandri to Kawasaki for 2009 - Official

[CaptainRaiden]

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/Melandri+confirms+Kawasaki+move+for+2009

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this so far. It's official! Melandri confirms his move to Kawasaki for the year 2009. Well, in my opinion he would have been better off to join a Honda or a Yamaha squad, because he is only going to struggle at Kawasaki. I have to say this, even though Kawasaki is my favorite team.

Now, after Marco's move, does this mean Ant West is out or would Kawasaki run a third machine? And who do you think is going for that second seat at Ducati? Would it be Nicky Hayden or a return from Sete Gibernau?

[mx311]

It's official! Melandri confirms his move to Kawasaki for the year 2009. Well, in my opinion he would have been better off to join a Honda or a Yamaha squad, because he is only going to struggle at Kawasaki.
For Marco the decision was really "do I want to be number three or four in line at a big manufacturer or equal number one at a small manufacturer?" I think it's the wrong choice but then again I thought his move to Ducati was the right choice so what do I know? ;)


Now, after Marco's move, does this mean Ant West is out or would Kawasaki run a third machine? And who do you think is going for that second seat at Ducati? Would it be Nicky Hayden or a return from Sete Gibernau?
Kawasaki has already informed Dorna that it cannot run a third machine in 2009 (same goes for Suzuki) so Westy is gone from GP's I'd imagine. Hopefully he land on his feet in WSBK.

As for the now vacant Ducati I thought Haydos had that one wrapped up and it was going to be made official at Indianapolis, or did i just imagine that?

[harsha]

isn't there a spot open @ Gresini...or maybe if Aspar decide to come back next year

[Roby44]

I hope Westy can get a ride next year some where....

[leopard]

Leaving the winning team for place mostly they spent at the back of race taker can be considered wrong move, I give Melandri support to take all the consequence once he saw his possibility in the current place went narrowing, unfit for him to grasp any better achievement nor to stay any longer.

A good response from Melandri to answer all the environment have asked or willingness to accept the challenge I think fairly good than easily give up in silence.

[CaptainRaiden]

Marco Melandri is a very good rider, I mean he won about 4 or 5 races on a Honda, and is a very gritty rider. Anyone remember his fight with Stoner for the win at Turkey 2006? It's only a mystery why he couldn't figure the electronics of the Desmosedici like Stoner could.

I'm taking nothing away from Stoner, he is a brilliant rider, but of course he found the sweet spot with the setup, especially the electronics that no one before him did since Ducati came in MotoGP, and Melandri couldn't find since he started in 2008. I wonder if ANY other rider could find that. I think sacking Capirossi was a wrong move by Ducati.

[T-D]

if stoner and ducati have not destroyed his confidence, then he should be at least competitive with hopkins on the kwack. in 2007, he once said that the gresini honda was the worst bike he had ever ridden. i suspect that a few races aboard the kwack will cause him ot reconsider that point of view.

[Corny]

this will be the first time that Hopkins gets a worthy team mate..

and probably Bautista on a third Kawa, at least they will have the riders nextyear..

[domaza]

if stoner and ducati have not destroyed his confidence, then he should be at least competitive with hopkins on the kwack. in 2007, he once said that the gresini honda was the worst bike he had ever ridden. i suspect that a few races aboard the kwack will cause him ot reconsider that point of view.

Ducati isnt the worst for him?

[ChrisS]

As I said in the other post, nothing is official yet though it will probably be soon.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/167826-0/melandri_to_kawasaki.html


That process is ongoing and Melandri is said to have jumped the gun a little by publically confirming the move - although few doubt that it will happen.

[T-D]

this will be the first time that Hopkins gets a worthy team mate..

vermin had more podiums, poles and actually won on the zook.

i think hopkins is not the rider some perceive him to be.

[gco0307]

this will be the first time that Hopkins gets a worthy team mate..

and probably Bautista on a third Kawa, at least they will have the riders nextyear..


Ok, I bite.

I personally feel that Hopkins has already had worthy team-mates throughout his career who have included (from memory) McCoy (Yamaha), Vermuelen (Suzuki and who achieved a win) although I do forget who the other Suzuki rider may have been in that time. IMO, it is well beyond time that Hopkins showed his worth to remain in the major league given those that have come and gone or who are being mentioned as unworthy.

As to the third Kawasaki, the latest talk is Tony Elias.





Garry

[leopard]

This has yet to confirm that aspar will run Kawasaki, I think they can hire Bautista or Elias and Suzuki should be the place to go first.

The talk about the third bike of Kawasaki is possibly spanish rider because spanish sponsor will back up the team. Given that Kawasaki has a loud voice in the new team, West still have suffice probability to remain riding motogp. It would go bigger if the team is fully supported by Kawasaki.

[ChrisS]

Ok, I bite.

I personally feel that Hopkins has already had worthy team-mates throughout his career who have included (from memory) McCoy (Yamaha), Vermuelen (Suzuki and who achieved a win) although I do forget who the other Suzuki rider may have been in that time.

And KRJr

[Corny]

Ok, I bite.

I personally feel that Hopkins has already had worthy team-mates throughout his career who have included (from memory) McCoy (Yamaha), Vermuelen (Suzuki and who achieved a win) although I do forget who the other Suzuki rider may have been in that time. IMO, it is well beyond time that Hopkins showed his worth to remain in the major league given those that have come and gone or who are being mentioned as unworthy.

As to the third Kawasaki, the latest talk is Tony Elias.





Garry
Ah yes, forgot about McCoy.. That was a very hard team mate

But Vermeulen wasn't real worthy, Hopper knew almost all circuits very good, while there are some circuits where Vermeulen only comes for the third time this year.. Next to that, Vermeulen could only outpace Hopper on wet and new circuits.

[The Phantom]

Next to that, Vermeulen could only outpace Hopper on wet and new circuits.

The only real issue with CV is his qualifying. In many races, once he is in his rhythm he is often going just as fast as the guys at the front, it's just that he's stuck in traffic. I rate him as a faster and better all-round rider than Hopper, and for the record I rate Hopper reasonably high too - he's a scrapper in the vein of Melandri and Elias.

[The Phantom]

I'm taking nothing away from Stoner, he is a brilliant rider, but of course he found the sweet spot with the setup, especially the electronics that no one before him did since Ducati came in MotoGP

Well, Capirossi and Bayliss both won (and had plenty of podiums) on the Ducati before Stoner got onboard... and the sweet spot is certainly there, it's just that the rider has to absolutely wring the bike's neck to get to it, and THAT'S the difference between the guys who can win on the Duc and the guys who just circulate.

The electronics are good but it still takes exceptional skill and bravery to get the most out of that bike.

Best of luck to Marco for 2009.

[Corny]

The electronics are good but it still takes exceptional skill and bravery to get the most out of that bike.


Indeed, when you see Casey coming out of a corner that bike is nearly-to-highsider like 20 times, only in one corner.

Stoner is probably using LESS traction control than the other riders are using, while most people think he's using more. You've got to have big balls to use traction control in an effective way..

[CaptainRaiden]

Well, Capirossi and Bayliss both won (and had plenty of podiums) on the Ducati before Stoner got onboard... and the sweet spot is certainly there, it's just that the rider has to absolutely wring the bike's neck to get to it, and THAT'S the difference between the guys who can win on the Duc and the guys who just circulate.

The electronics are good but it still takes exceptional skill and bravery to get the most out of that bike.

Agreed with some points, but neither Capirossi nor Bayliss were as dominating as Stoner has been. You put the same point forward that I was, meaning that only Stoner got the sweet spot needed to win races.

However, you fail to remember that when the GP8's electronics were not in sync, Stoner failed to impress at the start of the season except for that win in Qatar. And if I remember his exact words after that all important Barcelona test, they were something like "We got the electronics sorted out, and now the bike feels much more comfortable." So, clearly he was struggling before they got the electronics right.

[CaptainRaiden]

Indeed, when you see Casey coming out of a corner that bike is nearly-to-highsider like 20 times, only in one corner.

That highside would not happen, because the traction control kicks in and restricts the excess wheelspin. Isn't that how traction control works?


Stoner is probably using LESS traction control than the other riders are using, while most people think he's using more. You've got to have big balls to use traction control in an effective way..

He is taking advantage of his Duc's electronics in a very beautiful way. Of course there is talent involved, but if he tried to do what he does now on a Honda, his bike would throw him away, much like what happened in 2006. Of course he has matured as a rider and is very talented, but you can't deny that he relies heavily on electronics, otherwise he wouldn't have struggled during the first half of the season if he uses so "LESS" traction control.

[gco0307]

However, you fail to remember that when the GP8's electronics were not in sync, Stoner failed to impress at the start of the season except for that win in Qatar. And if I remember his exact words after that all important Barcelona test, they were something like "We got the electronics sorted out, and now the bike feels much more comfortable." So, clearly he was struggling before they got the electronics right.

In a recent interview televised in Australia, Stoner explained the 'electronic' enhancements and they certainly were not what most expected.

Many believe that 'electronics = traction control' but the enhancements/improvements mentioned by Stoner were to (effectively) engine mapping. He explained that the bike had been extremely peaky in it's power delivery and had nothing down low in terms of torque. Of course this was not obvious at Qatar due to the nature of the circuit but became so on slower, twistier tracks.

He simply said that the improvements were to lose some top end (admittedly small) but to gain more bottom end torque and therefore improve power deliver, or as he put it 'driveability out of corners'.






That highside would not happen, because the traction control kicks in and restricts the excess wheelspin. Isn't that how traction control works?

He is taking advantage of his Duc's electronics in a very beautiful way. Of course there is talent involved, but if he tried to do what he does now on a Honda, his bike would throw him away, much like what happened in 2006. Of course he has matured as a rider and is very talented, but you can't deny that he relies heavily on electronics, otherwise he wouldn't have struggled during the first half of the season if he uses so "LESS" traction control.

Of course what you say is true in that if he were to follow the same path, then in all likelihood he would be picked out of the weeds each weekend.

But, (and herein lay the catch) he has shown remarkable adaptability in coming to terms with the needs of the Ducati electronics and as such could/would no doubt adjust to other types of electronics and their idiosyncracies.

I recall an article (was linked from a separate forum) that claimed (was an article from 2007 on all electorins of all bikes) that the Ducati system worked best when the throttle was applied fully, not rolled on but cracked open as it were. This kind of riding goes against all semblance of training and self preservation instincts and as such (if the article was correct) then if purely shows how good CS is to be able to adapt to what nobody else can do.

Given that, I feel just as confident in saying that CS could adapt to the reuqirements of any other system and be successful (will try to find article and link).




Edit: Article was posted as an attachment to a second site, unfortunately it does exceed the limit of this forum so cannot post here unless I copy and paste (will post ir requested but it may well be considered a thread hijack).



Garry

[ChrisS]

I recall an article (was linked from a separate forum) that claimed (was an article from 2007 on all electorins of all bikes) that the Ducati system worked best when the throttle was applied fully, not rolled on but cracked open as it were. This kind of riding goes against all semblance of training and self preservation instincts and as such (if the article was correct) then if purely shows how good CS is to be able to adapt to what nobody else can do.

That can be seen from the TV graphics at Laguna when Stoner was a few meters behind Rossi and yet he was full throttle when Rossi was still at half-3/4 throttle. That can also be seen from the onboard footage of his hand at Brno.

Another thing that goes against all training is that not only Stoner but probably all the riders now go on the throttle right on the apex (and sometimes even before).

[NinjaMaster]

As a Kwak fan, I'm stoked to pick up Melandri. He's a proven race winner at the highest level and having he and Hopkins will really sort out where Kawasaki really are.

To put a positive spin on Kawasaki's situation, by getting Marco and with such strong talk of them running a third bike next year, it really seems like they are starting to get serious and realise they need to open the purse strings a bit more (read: a lot more!) to be really competitive.

2009 is starting to look very exciting I think.

[leopard]

The existence of Bartholemy in the team was pursuant to their seriousness competing in the series. He has and would revolutionized personals structure and a lot of important decision of team to awake giant within.
But sometimes reality isn't yet in line with the expectation. :)

What a miserable time Melandri must be having. If Kawasaki provide him with a competitive machine I'm sure we'll see him back up in the top four in 2009. Hopefully Hopkins can go through the remainder of this season without further injuries because I don't think he is in great shape right now.

[NinjaMaster]

Hopefully Hopkins can go through the remainder of this season without further injuries because I don't think he is in great shape right now.

I think he's bent into a great deal of different shapes this year! Like you say though, none of them great. :)

[CaptainRaiden]

I recall an article (was linked from a separate forum) that claimed (was an article from 2007 on all electorins of all bikes) that the Ducati system worked best when the throttle was applied fully, not rolled on but cracked open as it were. This kind of riding goes against all semblance of training and self preservation instincts and as such (if the article was correct) then if purely shows how good CS is to be able to adapt to what nobody else can do.

That is what I've been talking about throughout this thread. What I meant by Stoner hitting the sweet spot was him fully exploiting the Ducati's real performance, which nobody else can. However, from that article it seems that if the Ducati doesn't highside out of corners, even after applying full throttle, then that's not just accurate engine mapping my friend, there is a very good traction control system in place there which kicks in to prevent that excess rear wheelspin, no doubt.

Of course, (and this is just speculation here) probably Melandri couldn't figure out how to ride like Stoner, i.e. just roll open the throttle out of corners without the fear of the rear tyre throwing him away. Probably he didn't realize the whole year that the Duc was a different beast, and still tried to ride it like a Honda. Oh well, I hope he could turn up a miracle in the remaining races and win at least one in this dreadful year. A rider like him doesn't deserve such a bad year.


I think he's bent into a great deal of different shapes this year! Like you say though, none of them great.

Isn't it strange how much difference another machine makes in a rider's career? Do you think at this point of the season, Hopkins would be regretting his move to Kawasaki or maybe still hoping for better days.

[NinjaMaster]

Isn't it strange how much difference another machine makes in a rider's career? Do you think at this point of the season, Hopkins would be regretting his move to Kawasaki or maybe still hoping for better days.

I wouldn't think Hopkins regrets his move as much as he would hate being injured. Until the last couple of rounds, Suzuki haven't shown any more speed than Kawasaki have. Next year is the real acid test for both he and Team Green. If both he and Melandri struggle to be mid-pack or worse next year then Kawasaki will require a complete restructure (or disbandment). But if Melandri flies and leaves Hopkins behind (or John keeps crashing trying to keep up) then his career may well be at the crossroads.
Here's hoping that all those parties concerned will be competitive next year and add some variety to the series.

[T-D]

suzuki had a much better start to the season than kwack. kwack are consistently the worst factory team in motogp. team kr was better.

[NinjaMaster]

Suzuki had a better start to the year than Kawasaki by virtue of having 2 fit riders but I don't think the bike was any faster which is why Vermeulen had to lay down the law to them about producing a better bike and to Suzuki's credit, they have. But we've been through all this before.

[leopard]

This might be a perplexity to decide which one is better, Vermeulen was podiumer in many races particularly wet, but on the strength of result two years rode for the same team of Suzuki he was in entirety underneath. I think riders have their right wafting a motion to encourage team for the better bike as long as they put it forward in the right corridor.

Sorry for interrupting. :)