KNOCKHILL 2008 Rounds 22, 23, 24.

[VX_Rules]

Practice 1, Seats and Vauxhall predominately dominating.
Currently Practice 2, Red flag...

[VX_Rules]

And a 2nd red flag...

Taylor must be out on track... :D

[VkmSpouge]

No Erkut Kizilirmak or second BTC Racing car :(

[AndySpeed]

Has Erkut got some serious business commitments in turkey at the moment? This being the second meeting in a row that he's missed for his Arkas-sponsored team.

[SEATFreak]

Turks on top in FP2 with former team-mate TOC in second and Flash in 3rd.

At SEAT DT and Jase are a dissapointing 6th and 10th respectively whilst the other two VXR's of Neal and Giovanardi are 7th and 8th respectively.

In the battle for the Independents title, Jackson 4th's bettered Adam Jones' 11th place finish in the final session before qualifying.

Not hopeful that even if SEAT do well in qualifying they can convert that success into the races but I think it is fair to say if VXR get yet another weekend of utter dominance under their belt, certainly the race for the Drivers Trophy, and maybe even the Teams and Manufacturers trophy, will be yet again be all to over and won for another year by a VXR driver. Which isn't a bad thing as I hope this can mean SEAT may finally steal a march on VXR in terms of preparing for 2009.

[mattie007]

Top 17 seperated by a second!
Surprised by Seddon's 10th. Thats messed my predictions up!

[VX_Rules]

Mine too! lol, put him first in the Pickem's! Seat Again on top, no surprise with their rediculous advantage.

[VkmSpouge]

Qualifying
1. Darren Turner SEAT 53.163
2. Jason Plato SEAT 53.176
3. Tom Chilton Honda 53.281
4. Tom Onslow-Cole Vauxhall 53.441
5. Matt Neal Vauxhall 53.474
6. Colin Turkington BMW 53.475
7. Fabrizio Giovanardi Vauxhall 53.477
8. Mat Jackson BMW 53.481
9. Andrew Jordan Honda 53.657
10. Gordon Shedden Honda 53.698
11. Adam Jones SEAT 53.707
12. Harry Vaulkhard Chevrolet 53.848
13. Steven Kane BMW 53.950
14. Stephen Jelley BMW 53.970
15. Rob Collard BMW 53.993
16. Mike Jordan Honda 54.024
17. Jason Hughes MG 54.188
18. John George Honda 54.406
19. Michael Doyle Honda 55.065
20. Chris Stockton SEAT 55.229
21. Martyn Bell Vauxhall 55.236
22. Alan Taylor Honda 55.304

Yet another all SEAT front row, those diesels really help in qualifying. Tom Chilton showing his improved pace this half of the season. Considering Gordon Shedden's disappointing 10th place, are we sure they didn't switch Chilton and Shedden around and forgot to change the names on the cars? :p :
Very good qualifying by Andrew Jordan in 9th place and a very tight field in general. All bodes well for good racing tomorrow.

[AndySpeed]

Don't forget that Chilton will be starting from ninth though, and everyone up to Gordon Shedden moves up a place.

[Anderton]

Looking forward to the racing tomorrow. Is it on ITV4? (UK)
I haven't watched the BTTC in a fair while, so i'm looking forward to getting back into it.

[VX_Rules]

Again, it should be set for Seat to storm it, but we have expected this the last two rounds...

[Dickie L'Amour]

Looking forward to the racing tomorrow. Is it on ITV4? (UK)
I haven't watched the BTTC in a fair while, so i'm looking forward to getting back into it.

Yes, 12.30pm-5.30pm. As will be Silverstone & Brands Hatch.

[Iain]

My most spectacular shot of the day....
http://file044b.bebo.com/6/large/2008/08/16/19/696675898a8657602012l.jpg

[m0rk]

My most spectacular shot of the day....
http://file044b.bebo.com/6/large/2008/08/16/19/696675898a8657602012l.jpg


how thick am I.... you're "that" Iain doh!

[VX_Rules]

Plato keeps going on about next year, and I'm thinking, if the reliability is now sorted, which it seems to be, should Gow consider to introduce rev limits for the Diesels as their advantages are blatently unfair.

And Well done to Onslow Cole he's storming through these races. Future champion for sure.

[VX_Rules]

God Plato does my head in, he says how he made a "hard" move on Onslow Cole, and when Onslow Cole has no room and Plato drives across him, he then says Onslow Cole made a foul move. How is it one rule for one and another for a "Banana"? Plato gets it as good as he gives. Yet he always vicitimises himself.

Poor Plato. Sobs.

[MG2004]

well done rob collard!

[Eurotech]

Great Result for Rob and Motorbase

[MBailey06]

That move was just as much Onslow-Cole's fault as it was Plato's, I know you are a VX fan, but be fair it was not all down to Plato. Anyway, well done to Rob Collard, proved his doubters he still has what it takes.

[VX_Rules]

Yeah I totally know it was 50/50. And it was just a racing incident. but it just gripes me how much Plato is never in the wrong in his opinion. Just a rant.

[Eurotech]

It would seem that once again, the 'Banana' cars have had a really promising weekend somewhat damaged by the off for Turner in race 1 and then the Plato incident, but then again, the SEATs are slowly putting there very unfair advantage to good usage.

The only thing Im thinking about is the fact that the next rounds are at Silverstone - a circuit with 3 long straits which should suit SEAT down to the ground but if you remember the same was said about at snetterton and cars didn't seem to be able to take the speed of the fast sections and blew a fuse....

by the way - did anyone see Dino Zamparellis reaction when he got out the car in the secind Ginetta race - drama queen or what! I can see his dissapointment but yuno, it was a bit much. ;)

ROLL ON SILVERSTONE!

[Iain]

SEAT's tactics didn't work in race one, maybe they should've waited a lap before switching the cars, rather than right at the start which is always hectic.

[Eurotech]

which two would that be then???

[VkmSpouge]

Jason Plato having a good weekend but that incident with Tom Onslow-Cole lost him valuable points. Giovanardi looking very good for the championship.

Very good set of races for Rob Collard with a second place capping it off. Motorbase will be happy that neither car was involved in a major crash.

Another good third race by Andrew Jordan, that grid draw is smiling on him and he is making the most of those chances.

[jock3]

For everyone who couldn't make Knockhill this weekend, there's 64 photos on the link, which will be added to during the week, cheers & enjoy
http://knockhillracingcircuit.fotopic.net/

[mattlamb]

I thought some of Colin Turkington;s driving was rather questionable today. He seemed to be punting people out of the way rather too much. And he's normally one of the fairest drivers in the series...
Plato was out of order calling Tom Onslow-Cole a prat. Mind you, I wouldn't expect anything else from him when things go wrong. He's so snide.
Race three was really exciting. Well not for the lead but the battle for fourth place downwards was pretty epic.

[VX_Rules]

Good racing again all round, Ginettas very good, and yes, Zamparelli? Spoilt? Possibly?! lol. Seat CC was also v exciting for once, they seem to be more level for once as usually the field is very boring to watch.

Now I'm still waiting for BANANAFreak to come on and give his opinion. :D

Only joking with ya SEATFreak.

[mattlamb]

I have to say I'm disappointed ITV4 didn't show the Clios. They normally provide superb racing - certainly better than the Porsches and Seats (although both those vseries were better than normal at Knockhill).

[matt5964]

clio's dont race at knockhill at their choice

[m0rk]

I have to say I'm disappointed ITV4 didn't show the Clios. They normally provide superb racing - certainly better than the Porsches and Seats (although both those vseries were better than normal at Knockhill).

READ: crashed a lot

[Bezza]

Plato was out of order calling Tom Onslow-Cole a prat. Mind you, I wouldn't expect anything else from him when things go wrong. He's so snide.
Race three was really exciting. Well not for the lead but the battle for fourth place downwards was pretty epic.

I think he was right to call him a prat and could have said worse. Onslow-Cole drove into him, clearly turning right into the side of Plato. His job was to block Plato and let Gio get away - very negative tactics in the first place. Equally, he drove into Turner at the start of Race One. He's clearly learning some "skills" from team-mate Neal.

[lilmelvschilton]

Am not being funny but Tom Onslow-Cole did not shunt off Jason Plato, Jason drove into him and did not give Tom enough room to get back on the track

Thats my opinion and I am sticking to it!!!

[SEATFreak]

Now I'm still waiting for BANANAFreak to come on and give his opinion. :D

Only joking with ya SEATFreak.

No offense taken. They are actually my fave fruit. Good to throw on the pavement and have a laugh at some poor sods misfortune. :D : :laugh:

I actually think the good even the bad nicely.

As Tim Harvey (and I just want to first add my congrats to Tim on his 100th PCGB race btw) said in a piece of commentary at the end of race 2 I think it was, as a result of where Giovanardi finished (2nd), despite winning Jase was only able to take three points out of Gios lead.
Which is a bad thing for me as a SEAT fan because surely if similar results for Jase and Gio continues whereby Jase wins but Gio always finishes tucked in behind somewhere, Jase could indeed win every race from now until the end of the season and Jase will surely not have enough time to eat enough into Gio's lead on a race-by-race basis for Jase to pull level. Put simply, sooner rather than later the title race will be mathematically over.
For instance even if Jase wins race 1 at Silverstone in 2 weeks time and even if Gio was to only get third, if Gio gets just 1 bonus point Jase would only eat 4pts out of Gios lead in the championship (and 5pts without the bonus point).

But SEAT did win all three races which I don't remember happening much lately.

I look forward now to Silverstone because I think with the pressure all but off for winning the 2008 BTCC Drivers Trophy, for SEAT it is surely only a case of damaged limitatons. How much SEAT can damage VXR's virtually unasailable lead.

[AndySpeed]

Equally, he drove into Turner at the start of Race One. He's clearly learning some "skills" from team-mate Neal.

I'm a big fan of Turner, but I think that was his own doing. Letting Plato through at the first corner lost him momentum, allowing Onslow-Cole to have a go. There was contact before the corner, but I think Turner could have made it round if he's focused more on the impending corner than the Vauxhall on his left.


Which is a bad thing for me as a SEAT fan because surely if similar results for Jase and Gio continues whereby Jase wins but Gio always finishes tucked in behind somewhere, Jase could indeed win every race from now until the end of the season and Jase will surely not have enough time to eat enough into Gio's lead on a race-by-race basis for Jase to pull level. Put simply, sooner rather than later the title race will be mathematically over.
For instance even if Jase wins race 1 at Silverstone in 2 weeks time and even if Gio was to only get third, if Gio gets just 1 bonus point Jase would only eat 4pts out of Gios lead in the championship (and 5pts without the bonus point).

SEATFreak I thought that you of all people would have taken to the approach that me, Plato and many others have - that SEAT weren't going to win the championship some time ago!
I think that became a reality after Oulton Park.

Surely these turbo diesels are proving a little too superior right now...

[SEATFreak]

SEATFreak I thought that you of all people would have taken to the approach that me, Plato and many others have - that SEAT weren't going to win the championship some time ago!
I think that became a reality after Oulton Park.

Where may I ask did this come from?

Because you say you would have thought that I would have taken to the approach you, Jase and many other have that it became a reality after Oulton Park that SEAT were not gonna win the title. I think it became a reality even before this season even started that SEAT were not going to win the title.


Surely these turbo diesels are proving a little too superior right now...

Superior? Have you seen the Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers standings?

Also doesn't it go against your above statement? Because if SEAT were superior, wouldn't the championship race still be very much on? As it is they mustn't be that superior because the race has long been over.

[AndySpeed]

Superior? Have you seen the Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers standings?

Also doesn't it go against your above statement? Because if SEAT were superior, wouldn't the championship race still be very much on? As it is they mustn't be that superior because the race has long been over.

That's why I said RIGHT NOW. They clearly weren't at the start of the year.

[BDunnell]

I think he was right to call him a prat and could have said worse. Onslow-Cole drove into him, clearly turning right into the side of Plato. His job was to block Plato and let Gio get away - very negative tactics in the first place. Equally, he drove into Turner at the start of Race One. He's clearly learning some "skills" from team-mate Neal.

I didn't think Onslow-Cole, who I feel is driving superbly, did anything out of order with Turner in race one, and I don't think the collision with Plato was a deliberate 'tactic'. After all, these things don't tend to be. However, I thought the collision was definitely O-C's fault and Plato was pleasingly diplomatic about it.

[SEATFreak]

That's why I said RIGHT NOW. They clearly weren't at the start of the year.

Where they ever?

VXR must have pissed themselves laughing when Scott Dennis decided to further cock his operation up and change to TDi. Another walkover season for "The Untouchables" is in store.

Ian Harrison has the nerve to bleat on about SEAT dominance. What about VXR's?? It seems things are only fine to them when they are allowed to walk over this championship. Yet not a peep about them when they dominate.

[Northern Monkey]

Where they ever?

VXR must have pissed themselves laughing when Scott Dennis decided to further cock his operation up and change to TDi. Another walkover season for "The Untouchables" is in store.

Ian Harrison has the nerve to bleat on about SEAT dominance. What about VXR's?? It seems things are only fine to them when they are allowed to walk over this championship. Yet not a peep about them when they dominate.

As other people have pointed out, the Leon TDi is quite clearly the quickest car on track at the moment and does have the edge over its rivals - as most of the other drivers/teams have pointed out.

Three successive front-row lockouts, six wins out of nine since the summer break and the Snetterton test which has allowed the team to really get to grips with the car kind of shows what people are trying to get through to you.

Look at the last few seasons. Vauxhall may have won titles but in no way have they been dominant. We've seen Matt Neal take two drivers titles for Halfords, SEAT have a manufacturers' title win, Jason take the title to the wire last year - this isn't like the start of the BTC era in the early 2000's when it was all Vauxhall and no-one could get close.

In no way has this been a 'walkover season' for Vauxhall. Yes, they have been aided in terms of the manufacturers title race by the fact that SEAT took time to get to grips with the diesel car but if the season had started following the summer break, you'd be the first person celebrating how SEAT were the team to beat. Also, most people would readily admit that SEAT would start the 2009 season as favourites if current form was maintained over the winter.

It would also be stupid to suggest that SEATs early season struggles have in any way made it a walkover in terms of the drivers' championship as that somewhat belittles the remainder of the field and the likes of Turkington, Jackson, Shedden etc who were all tipped as potential champions at the start of the season but have been unable to keep pace with Giovanardi for one reason or another. He has won four times in 24 races so has hardly dominated in that sense - but he has simply kept clocking up the points as any good champion will do.

[VX_Rules]

The only Reason roles arent reversed is because of luck and reliability, both out of the hands of team in some aspects. VXR have had it, Seat havent. Simple as, Next season is Seats if the field isn't levelled.

[cos]

Has Erkut got some serious business commitments in turkey at the moment? This being the second meeting in a row that he's missed for his Arkas-sponsored team.

Yeah, more business committments. He's "almost 100% certain" to be back for Silverstone though.

[jimgoose]

was at knockhill yesterday and from what i seen matt neal should be driving stock cars,twice in race three he shoved gordon shedden out of the way because he didnt have enough talent to figure out a way round him.shedden re passed him after the first shunt only to have the same done again.after what he done to plato last year letting everyone in a vectra passed then blocking plato because of a job the next year is terrible.touring cars have never been the same since the volvo estates were in it.too much team orders and internal politics.

[Eurotech]

I see what you mean about the team tactics because its really getting stupid nowadays. that Turner incident in race 1 was a clear showing of this. If he had driven his own race he would have lead and got a SEAT 1-2 almost dead certainty. but his Idea of 'Destroy That Vectra' rather that'Crap Theres a Corner Coming - Take Avasiva Action' was stupid and he really got what he had coming too him. Vauxhall are guilty of it as well but not quite as blatantly as SEAT

[SEATFreak]

Next season is Seats if the field isn't levelled.

LMFAO! :rotflmao:

The season won't be SEAT's if the field IS level. Because for as long as VXR are in the BTCC we will never see different Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers champions. It takes someone bigger than VXR to do that achievement. And right now I don't see a team in touring car racing bigger than VXR right now.

[Northern Monkey]

LMFAO! :rotflmao:

The season won't be SEAT's if the field IS level. Because for as long as VXR are in the BTCC we will never see different Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers champions. It takes someone bigger than VXR to do that achievement. And right now I don't see a team in touring car racing bigger than VXR right now.

For someone who is meant to be a huge SEAT fan and has just referred to his 'beloved team' on another thread, you don't do much apart from put them down. Did you not read my previous post?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

LMFAO! :rotflmao:

The season won't be SEAT's if the field IS level. Because for as long as VXR are in the BTCC we will never see different Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers champions. It takes someone bigger than VXR to do that achievement. And right now I don't see a team in touring car racing bigger than VXR right now.

Don't you remember a small independent team called Team Halfords that won two titles in a row?

Just look at the qualifying from the past 3 races. We haven't seen a team with such a clear advantage since 2001/2002 when the Astra Coupe was dominating.

No doubt that SEAT has the fastest car in terms of outright pace. If Giovanardi was driving a SEAT and Plato was in a Vectra i reckon he (Gio) would still be in the lead.

[jimgoose]

They Should All Race Diesels,better For The Enviroment,might Get Audi Back Again.

[Bezza]

A reliable source, who works in the pitlane every race, tells me that Onslow-Cole has received points on his license for his move on Plato. Clearly, they saw that it was an avoidable accident caused by Onslow-Cole.

Don't know if there is any official details on this, I haven't checked.

[Iain]

It happened in front of me and it definitely looked avoidable at the time. It didn't look like Plato had done a Farfus and lost all his spatial awareness and moved over on TO-C.

[BDunnell]

The season won't be SEAT's if the field IS level. Because for as long as VXR are in the BTCC we will never see different Drivers, Teams and Manufacturers champions. It takes someone bigger than VXR to do that achievement. And right now I don't see a team in touring car racing bigger than VXR right now.

Please change the record!

[Les]

A reliable source, who works in the pitlane every race, tells me that Onslow-Cole has received points on his license for his move on Plato. Clearly, they saw that it was an avoidable accident caused by Onslow-Cole.

Don't know if there is any official details on this, I haven't checked.

No action taken :)

[VX_Rules]

Good there shouldn't be any action taken, it was just an incident.

More over though. Im sorry but, I said IF Seat sort theyre reliability. They will win next season. That is almost a fact so I don't know why your laughin. Even with ballast on the SEATS no one can match them, including VX. And As The insignia wont be until 2010 im guessing now, then SEAT will be top dog in 2009. I dont know how you can really disagree with this?

[Mp3 Astra]

Looking at the youtube video of this incident, (a better angle) it does look quite avoidable, but I think TOC was slightly surprised by Plato making the dive, and then had some random traction as he was trying to recover back onto the track, and slammed into Plato. It's touch and go whether a penalty should have been applied. I'd probably say yes, but I'm biased.

[BTCC2]

They Should All Race Diesels,better For The Enviroment,might Get Audi Back Again.

Deffinately not! I couldnt stand the fact that all of the cars would make no noise.

[MAX_THRUST]

Have they drug tested Giovanardi yet?

That's meant as a joke.

Monkey man, catch me if you can, I'm a Monkey man.
What do you call an italian monkey, anything you like they don'ta speaka da english. You gotta love Gio.

[SEATFreak]

dont know how you can really disagree with this?

I think you as a VXR fan know this.

Think of all those trophies VXR has won certainly since 2001. Manufacturers, Drivers and Teams champions 4 years running (2001 - 2004), Manufacturers champions in 2005 and of course last year back again winning the Drivers title whilst retaining the Manufacturers crown.

They have been all conquoring in the BTCC for God knows how long now altogether. Certainly since before I got into the BTCC. I just don't see what possible reason can explain the idea that it is possible for all that to all suddely come to a shock end now. That is what I want everyone to explain to me.

Quite simple VXR are the biggest and best team their is, the biggest and best their is and the biggest and best their ever will be in touring car racing.

[VX_Rules]

Did you not read my post? Not once in you reply have you answered to the fact the Seat is superior, and will be superior if reliable and has an equal share of luck.

Full Stop.

[Les]

I think you as a VXR fan know this.

Think of all those trophies VXR has won certainly since 2001. Manufacturers, Drivers and Teams champions 4 years running (2001 - 2004), Manufacturers champions in 2005 and of course last year back again winning the Drivers title whilst retaining the Manufacturers crown.

They have been all conquoring in the BTCC for God knows how long now altogether. Certainly since before I got into the BTCC. I just don't see what possible reason can explain the idea that it is possible for all that to all suddely come to a shock end now. That is what I want everyone to explain to me.

Quite simple VXR are the biggest and best team their is, the biggest and best their is and the biggest and best their ever will be in touring car racing.

but not that long ago VX were the worst manufacturer out there

[SEATFreak]

Did you not read my post? Not once in you reply have you answered to the fact the Seat is superior, and will be superior if reliable and has an equal share of luck.

Full Stop.

Ahhh, I think I know where the confusion is. You equate seeing someone have a different opinion to not having read and understood your points. A different view is fine so long as it is in keeping with yours.

I well see your point of view. But seven manufacturers titles, five drivers titles and five teams titles. Not bad for a team that people reckon is about to loose all what they achieved to get those titles, don't you think? But the fact that you have not answered to is how the greatest touring car team ever will suddenly find themselves losing all that. Because the Vauxhall Vectra ranks among the best touring cars ever and Fabrizio as one of the best drivers.

I have no doubt SEAT's time will come to be decent but with SEAT success must come VXR failure. Because a very good VXR team is next to impossible to beat.

[MAX_THRUST]

Thats not what I saw last year, VXR were very nearly beat had it not been for their unofficial third driver last year things have been different, oh that and JP set fire to himself in testing.

If vxr are so good why are they requesting a rule change against seat?

I'm not anti VXR I'm just an independent observer.

[SEATFreak]

If vxr are so good why are they requesting a rule change against seat?

Good point. Maybe they are beginning to brick it because they know they cannot thrash SEAT without the full weight of TOCA's rules bearing down SEAT. Cowards.

[Alfa Fan]

.................................................. .................................................. .....

[tisme]

If vxr are so good why are they requesting a rule change against seat?


Now let's see... Last THREE rounds.

Snetterton Qualifying: SEAT 1st and 2nd on the grid!
Oulton Qualifying: SEAT 1st and 2nd on the grid!
Knockhill Qualifying: SEAT 1st and 2nd on the grid!

I can see a pattern here..

AND.. If the SEAT's had not retired from mechanical problems at Snetterton and Oulton Park, you would also have seen NINE wins from the last NINE races!

I'm surprised it's only Vauxhall complaining!

[Eurotech]

WHY IS SEAT COMPAINING ABOUT PACE WHEN THEY ARE CLEARLY THE FASTEST CARS ON THE GRID!

The reason why Seat are not leading the Standings is because of there stupid lack of testing, I mean how can they complain when they came into Brands with about 4 miles on each car. Did they not think that Vauxhall might have done what PROFESSIONAL outfits do and go testing during the winter month?

How can they also provide a car that is so unreliable it makes my car sound like an option and then complain when they make mistakes and Vauxhall dont?

Can I now say that the only Cowards are SEAT. no, wait change 'coward' for 'Idiot' and your more on the lines.

[VkmSpouge]

Thats not what I saw last year, VXR were very nearly beat had it not been for their unofficial third driver last year things have been different, oh that and JP set fire to himself in testing.

Alain Menu didn't really do much to stop Plato from winning the title last year, I just think the petrol SEAT Léon wasn't as good as the Vauxhall Vectra around Thruxton.

[VkmSpouge]

AND.. If the SEAT's had not retired from mechanical problems at Snetterton and Oulton Park, you would also have seen NINE wins from the last NINE races!

I don't think SEAT would have got nine wins from nine races, more like seven but your point is made that SEAT's diesel Léon has an advantage.

[Eurotech]

Alain Menu didn't really do much to stop Plato from winning the title last year, I just think the petrol SEAT Léon wasn't as good as the Vauxhall Vectra around Thruxton.
I think he ment Matt Neal

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think he ment Matt Neal

Well Menu was the 3rd driver for Vauxhall at Thruxton, Matt Neal was the unofficial 4th driver ;)





They have been all conquoring in the BTCC for God knows how long now altogether. Certainly since before I got into the BTCC. I just don't see what possible reason can explain the idea that it is possible for all that to all suddely come to a shock end now. That is what I want everyone to explain to me.

Quite simple VXR are the biggest and best team their is, the biggest and best their is and the biggest and best their ever will be in touring car racing.

You keep telling us that you've only followed the BTCC since 2001, but before that (1996-2000 esp) VXRacing/Vauxhall Motorsport was no-where. Apart from a few race wins now and again they were never in with a shot of a title. They can't help that all the other big teams have left. What do you expect them to do? Its up to the other teams to raise their game.


For the past three seasons SEAT have had a car that is fast enough to win the title, but instead it's been an endless tale of schoolboy errors that has cost them.

[VkmSpouge]

I think he ment Matt Neal

I know but forgetting Alain Menu is a terrible sin :p :

[Eurotech]

fare enough but I see what Brown,Jon Brow is getting at with the facy that they have had competitive cars because Plato has now become Yvan muller (strange, I know) and started coming 2nd for every season...

[VX_Rules]

I dont know what to say as nothing actually needs saying, A Rule change is needed. Seat are quicker. Seats luck is the only thing levelling the field at the moment. Thats all that can be said and needs to be said really?

[Eurotech]

very true

[BDunnell]

It's another Alfa 155 Silverstone or Audi A4 Quattro situation, isn't it? One manufacturer makes use of a development that no-one else does and steals an advantage. Do we think the FIA will ban turbo diesels?

[Eurotech]

Not ban, just slow down a bit....

[BDunnell]

Not ban, just slow down a bit....

I wouldn't agree with that, because I'm not in favour of artificially limiting the performance of some cars to even out the field. I didn't like it when it worked to Seat's advantage in 2004, nor with Chevy in the WTCC, and I wouldn't like it now.

[PDS]

Do we think the FIA will ban turbo diesels?

Not seen this then?

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2573

[Eurotech]

Chevy Might Stay with the Lacetti for another year then!

[BDunnell]

Not seen this then?

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2573

No — thanks for that.

The best way, surely, to make touring car racing as fair, as competitive and as entertaining as possible is to allow as few variations of engine type and car configuration as possible. Even within restricted parameters, there are surely enough variables of performance to ensure that it doesn't become like a one-make or silhouette series. So, either everyone should have turbos or not.

[Eurotech]

As a VXR fan I say Diesels without Turbos!

[PDS]

There are some manufacturers looking at bring more turbo engines into their fleet of vehicles.. I understand Renault have started already!

[VkmSpouge]

I'm against introducing turbo engines for all cars, simply because I think it will be a needless change to the rules.

[VX_Rules]

As a VXR fan I say Diesels without Turbos!

We already know how slow they are without turbos! :p :

They only work every two out of three races, Maybe the TOCA should introduce a new regulation on the number of turbos are allowed to get through in one season to be cost affecttive and more environmentally friendly.

Talking about environmentally friendly, how is the CO2 Rule change going to affect SEAT next year? As visually it's pretty obvious they aren't currently chugging at the same CO2 levels as a Road Leon FR Diesel or whatever it is.

[Iain]

I dunno about that, they aren't too smoky. I've seen smokier SEAT TDi roadcars, believe me. :laugh:

[VX_Rules]

Haha. Spanish engines for you. :D Actually to be honest, alot of Vauxhalls are built in Spain, and the Triple 8 Diesel Astras, they smoke like a chimney when being hammered on the roads.

[Iain]

German engines actually. ;)

[VX_Rules]

Well the spanish maintain them don't they? So it must be them doing something wrong with them :P

[stevevxr]

i have to say !! thought motor racing was about petrol / gasoline... not diesel !!!

Diesel is for HGV's and Trains...

Come on SEAT lets have your petrol engines here again,, At least Adam Jones as not a misfire !!

[Robinho]

to be fair the smoke isn't indicative if CO2 levels, its just Diesel engines produce higher levels of visible particulates, which are relatively easy to filter (like the Le Mans Audis) - as a rule the Diesels have less CO2 emissions, as they are more fuel efficient (hence the lower tax against similar petrol engines size on the road cars)

[VX_Rules]

I suppose it doesnt matter if they produce more or less CO2 as arent all the cars next year having to match, or be similar to the road going equivilants under the same conditions. (Ie a road vectra being thrashed round a track instead of manufacturers claimed figures?)

[SEATFreak]

Come on SEAT lets have your petrol engines here again,, At least Adam Jones as not a misfire !!

I'm with you. If SEAT problems from this year aren't to do with the TDi a lot of the time then how were SEAT even better at reliability last season when they had petrol?

I don't have a warehouse just for my Haynes mannuals and I am never seen with my head in the engine of a car but something about the TDi must be affecting the relibility because it was never like this before during last year.

[PDS]

i have to say !! thought motor racing was about petrol / gasoline... not diesel !!!

Diesel is for HGV's and Trains...

Come on SEAT lets have your petrol engines here again,,

Your wish, it seems, may be coming true!

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2626

[VX_Rules]

That article is all fair enough PDS, but that is for the WTCC and concerning the "S2010" regs in place of the S2000 so it will be up to Gow if he follows suit and adopts the "S2010" regs and when, if is the same year as the WTCC (2010 obviously) or if he waits to see how they work in the WTCC.

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