are we really racing Surfers Paradise?

[The instant classic]

i wasnt sure if the fans over on,, indycar.com talkback,, where pulling my leg,, or just making up stuff,, but they are saying, this oct will we see,,Surfers Paradise,, can anyone let me know how true this is? thx :)

[-Helix-]

Yep, 24 cars confirmed for it so far. It'll be a non-points event obviously.

Don't really see the point in going halfway around the world to be a support series myself, but whatever. They wouldn't be going if it wasn't going to be beneficial to the series.

[nigelred5]

Come on, I'd bet money they guaranteed a certain former Champcar owner they would sign a long term contract with Surfers to ensure his Aussie sponsorship deal didn't fall through and the merger with Champcar went through as planned. Look at the IRL's schedule history. They have never had any intention of racing in October past this year. They are making offers for dates they know damn well Cochrane and the Surfer's Paradise organizers will reject so they can get out of the contract and pin the blame on them.
How about we change the 500 to Labor Day. What next, Long Beach in September?

[speeddurango]

Nah, you're going a little too far, fabricating somethin there, if you're CC fan it's understandable otherwise that's a little bit uncalled for. Back on topic, Surfers's safe on schedule this year, they just have problems for next year. I'm not exactly sure what Indycar officials are thinking but apparently it's not like Indycar is trying to dump Surfers, because the obvious fact is they moved their Motegi date to September to make it a less expensive East Pacific trip but somehow the date was rather bad for the Australian partner and I'm not exactly sure what happened that caused them to neglect the issues involving setting a date which will potentially conflict with V8 supercars, and whether it's intentional or a comminication problems.

[nigelred5]

Well, I guess we'll see.....

[-Helix-]

Come on, I'd bet money they guaranteed a certain former Champcar owner they would sign a long term contract with Surfers to ensure his Aussie sponsorship deal didn't fall through and the merger with Champcar went through as planned. Look at the IRL's schedule history. They have never had any intention of racing in October past this year. They are making offers for dates they know damn well Cochrane and the Surfer's Paradise organizers will reject so they can get out of the contract and pin the blame on them.
How about we change the 500 to Labor Day. What next, Long Beach in September?

You're probably on to something about the whole sponsorship/merger thing, but it's not really relevant.

If Cochrane/Australia rejects the offered dates, that's their problem. As an American IndyCar fan, I couldn't care less if the race is the same weekend as the Australian Football finals. The IRL obviously doesn't care either. If they want us there, they'll figure out a way to make it work. But it's up to them, it's not the IRL's concern what other Australian sports events are going on or how the Australian tourism industry is doing.

There are obvious openings on next year's schedule for the possible addition of Surfer's and the IRL offered those available dates. They're on the table, and the ball is in Cochrane's court.

The IRL doesn't care about Australia's tourism industry or old CART/Champ Car dates as they shouldn't. If Australia wants IndyCars, they'll accept one of the offered dates. If they don't, no big loss. Less travel for another street race which we have way too many of anyway. IndyCar is an AMERICAN series that doesn't need Australia, so why bend to their will? IndyCar doesn't owe Cochrane anything.

I'm indifferent on whether or not we run in Australia, and I think this is a good test of faith to see if it's even worth all the travel/time. If Cochrane is willing to accept one of the offered dates, great. If not, great.

It basically comes down to who they can replace IndyCar with. A1GP would be the likely choice. But which is more appealing to Australian race fans? Dixon, Briscoe, and Power driving in the series that runs one of the most famous races in the world, or whoever they decide to stick in Team Australia's A1GP ride? I guess that's for Cochrane to decide.

And comparing the date for the Gold Coast Indy to that of Long Beach or Indy? Please. I know you're a former Champ Car fan, but c'mon...

[ShiftingGears]

And comparing the date for the Gold Coast Indy to that of Long Beach or Indy? Please. I know you're a former Champ Car fan, but c'mon...

I'd watch the Surfers Paradise long weekend, over Long Beach or Indy.

[-Helix-]

I'd watch the Surfers Paradise long weekend, over Long Beach or Indy.

I probably would too. (Well, probably not over Indy - but it is a good race and I would take it over the now pretty dull Long Beach race in a heartbeat.)

However, that doesn't make the date of said race as meaningful as the traditional dates of the series' two biggest events and the two biggest open wheel races in America.

A race on the other side of the world doesn't hold a candle to the importance of those two (domestic, in-market) races.

[ShiftingGears]

I probably would too. (Well, probably not over Indy - but it is a good race and I would take it over the now pretty dull Long Beach race in a heartbeat.)

However, that doesn't make the date of said race as meaningful as the traditional dates of the series' two biggest events and the two biggest open wheel races in America.

A race on the other side of the world doesn't hold a candle to the importance of those two (domestic, in-market) races.

True, but if they ended up with a date seperate to the V8s at Surfers then the net losers are the fans. IMO its the best combination of series at a venue over the same weekend that you can get.

[wedge]

True, but if they ended up with a date seperate to the V8s at Surfers then the net losers are the fans. IMO its the best combination of series at a venue over the same weekend that you can get.

True. I love the V8s but there's also ALMS/IRL at the beautiful Mid-Ohio Sportcar Course.

If only they could do the same at Road America, now that what would be awesome!

[The instant classic]

Yep, 24 cars confirmed for it so far. It'll be a non-points event obviously.

Don't really see the point in going halfway around the world to be a support series myself, but whatever. They wouldn't be going if it wasn't going to be beneficial to the series.
wow thx,

i think, the race will be great, cuz the drivers got nothing to lose, the points are finshs,, i wolud use this race like how nascar has the allstar race,,use it as, try new things, and the drivers can have more fun and not worry about points,,

its going to be wierd to see, if fans show up, for a non-points race?
i think the IRL is going to use this race more as,,lets see how many fans do come out,, to watch this race,,and see if we sholud add this race to the series,

[garyshell]

You're probably on to something about the whole sponsorship/merger thing, but it's not really relevant.

If Cochrane/Australia rejects the offered dates, that's their problem. As an American IndyCar fan, I couldn't care less if the race is the same weekend as the Australian Football finals. The IRL obviously doesn't care either. If they want us there, they'll figure out a way to make it work. But it's up to them, it's not the IRL's concern what other Australian sports events are going on or how the Australian tourism industry is doing.

There are obvious openings on next year's schedule for the possible addition of Surfer's and the IRL offered those available dates. They're on the table, and the ball is in Cochrane's court.

The IRL doesn't care about Australia's tourism industry or old CART/Champ Car dates as they shouldn't. If Australia wants IndyCars, they'll accept one of the offered dates. If they don't, no big loss. Less travel for another street race which we have way too many of anyway. IndyCar is an AMERICAN series that doesn't need Australia, so why bend to their will? IndyCar doesn't owe Cochrane anything.

I'm indifferent on whether or not we run in Australia, and I think this is a good test of faith to see if it's even worth all the travel/time. If Cochrane is willing to accept one of the offered dates, great. If not, great.

It basically comes down to who they can replace IndyCar with. A1GP would be the likely choice. But which is more appealing to Australian race fans? Dixon, Briscoe, and Power driving in the series that runs one of the most famous races in the world, or whoever they decide to stick in Team Australia's A1GP ride? I guess that's for Cochrane to decide.

And comparing the date for the Gold Coast Indy to that of Long Beach or Indy? Please. I know you're a former Champ Car fan, but c'mon...

This comes down to whether or not the ICS sees the Gold Coast Race as strategic in their plans or not. If they do then your message is ridiculous. What you are saying is tantamount to going to the Long Beach promoter and telling them that the race is to be run on the same day as the Super Bowl.

And yes like it or not the Gold Coast race very much is comparable to Long Beach or the 500 in terms of attendance, viewers and prestige IN THAT MARKET. So again it comes down to one thing, is that market strategically important to the ICS. If it was not, then pray tell why is it even on this year's schedule and a push being made to try to get it on next year's? If the ICS didn't think it any more important than you obviously do, they would have to Cochrane to go pound sand a long time ago.

Gary

[dataman1]

its going to be wierd to see, if fans show up, for a non-points race?,

Most of the fans will not care about points. This is an opportunity for them to vacation near the beach in the spring while having a party and watching their favorite racing series V8's.

Over time V8's grew in popularity while CART/CCWS took a lesser role each year. The event always carried the "INDY" name with the open wheel cars running on Sunday. The V8's gathered more and more bargaining clout while AOWR lost clout. You could see it in the cooperation from track staff and the facilities/services provided.

This event is one of the top 5 in Australia for size of crowd and economic impact. The world media coverage is far beyond what we see at any other event outside of Indy 500. The IRL brass hopefully sees the value of the world coverage and recognistion received.

By the way, teams can walk to the track along the beach with clean sea air. After work, the fun time begins with unlimited options and great beer, fresh sea food, dinner cruises, and the ladies....OMG. So don't feel sorry for the lads that get to go. They will bring back some stories to share. The only thing that sucks is the long plane ride.

[The instant classic]

Most of the fans will not care about points. This is an opportunity for them to vacation near the beach in the spring while having a party and watching their favorite racing series V8's.

Over time V8's grew in popularity while CART/CCWS took a lesser role each year. The event always carried the "INDY" name with the open wheel cars running on Sunday. The V8's gathered more and more bargaining clout while AOWR lost clout. You could see it in the cooperation from track staff and the facilities/services provided.

This event is one of the top 5 in Australia for size of crowd and economic impact. The world media coverage is far beyond what we see at any other event outside of Indy 500. The IRL brass hopefully sees the value of the world coverage and recognistion received.

By the way, teams can walk to the track along the beach with clean sea air. After work, the fun time begins with unlimited options and great beer, fresh sea food, dinner cruises, and the ladies....OMG. So don't feel sorry for the lads that get to go. They will bring back some stories to share. The only thing that sucks is the long plane ride.

i got a feeling we will see one wild race for sure,

it will be kind of funny to see if fans bring champcar sings to the track, over an IRL sign,, im really into this race,, i want to see how the fans act having the indycar guys come to the champcar track,,im really looking for the fan re-acting on this,, it sholud be fun!

well having the race in australia is great cuz girls from australia are hot, same with french girls :love:

i have never seen this race,,they never carryed the race where i live,,for champcar races i only got like 7 races ayear on tv,,so seeing a new track for me its always great,the last race i was at, it was Watkins Glen this year,,and i dont have any storys to tell cuz i dont cheat on my gf but i saw some guys,,it sure look like they enjoy themselfs :D

[pits4me]

This comes down to whether or not the ICS sees the Gold Coast Race as strategic in their plans or not. If they do then your message is ridiculous. What you are saying is tantamount to going to the Long Beach promoter and telling them that the race is to be run on the same day as the Super Bowl.

And yes like it or not the Gold Coast race very much is comparable to Long Beach or the 500 in terms of attendance, viewers and prestige IN THAT MARKET. So again it comes down to one thing, is that market strategically important to the ICS. If it was not, then pray tell why is it even on this year's schedule and a push being made to try to get it on next year's? If the ICS didn't think it any more important than you obviously do, they would have to Cochrane to go pound sand a long time ago.

Gary

Obviously Gary, many of us know the October weekend date for Surfer's is very strategic in terms of global business support, fan attraction and TV coverage. Unfortunately I believe we're seeing a return to more of the IRL's tunnel vision perspective. How they can justify Homestead as being more valuable than Surfer's on an international business scale is ridiculous.

If the ICS wants to compete in an international marketplace, attract international drivers, and most importantly, become an entertainment platform for INTERNATIONAL BRANDS & SPONSORS, (many headquartered in the USA), they should stop acting like ostriches by burying their head in the sand.

Australia has long been recognized for its sporting passion, I just hope when the ICS shows up there later this year, they'll realize the impact of their ignorance.

[garyshell]

Obviously Gary, many of us know the October weekend date for Surfer's is very strategic in terms of global business support, fan attraction and TV coverage. Unfortunately I believe we're seeing a return to more of the IRL's tunnel vision perspective. How they can justify Homestead as being more valuable than Surfer's on an international business scale is ridiculous.

If the ICS wants to compete in an international marketplace, attract international drivers, and most importantly, become an entertainment platform for INTERNATIONAL BRANDS & SPONSORS, (many headquartered in the USA), they should stop acting like ostriches by burying their head in the sand.

Australia has long been recognized for its sporting passion, I just hope when the ICS shows up there later this year, they'll realize the impact of their ignorance.


I think the ICS has already tipped their hand that they think the Gold Coast is strategic to their (ICS) interests. Why else would they plan to go there in October, announce that 24 cars are already lined up for the trip and say they were trying to arrange a date for next year? If it was not important to ICS, they would never have agreed to go there this year.

But I also think the October date for next year is a non-starter because of other contractual agreements that ICS has and that whatever date is chosen it MUST allow for a concurrent travel arrangement with Montegi. The Gold Coast folks need to wake up to THAT realization, if THEY truly want to be part of the ICS schedule.

Gary

[nigelred5]

Maybe MarkC's rumor of another Asian country's interest in a race fits in there somewhere? Three race swing? bargaining leverage? They have tried to keep the schedule compressed the last few years, with Surfers, there's virtually no way to accomplish that if they are going to double it with Motegi. I still don't see what the hell the FIA is worried about having the F1 race and the ICS races within 3 weeks of each other. There aren't enough people in Japan for two races? Motegi gets pathetic crowds most of the time and they are all there on Honda's dime anyway. Now that Honda lost the F1 GP to Fuji, They should race at Suzuka anyway.Why they guaranteed Homestead the finale is beyond me. Same problem as Chicago. Why they even went back to Homestead is beyond me. I suppose ISC allowed the ICS to swap the season enders if it stayed at one of their tracks and didn't go to LVMS and SMI.
That would be fine to come back and finish the season in Miami after Surfers, but early November is getting pretty late to be racing, even in South Florida.

I see Surfers crowd as more or less the equivalent of the crowds at Sebring. Sure, there's a lot of real race fans there, but it's the party. Hold sebring in Aril or May and I suspect the crowds would be miniscule. Everyone is there because it's held during the spring break season. Certainly not all college drunks, but breakers, snowbirds, people just tired of the winter up north.

[pits4me]

I think the ICS has already tipped their hand that they think the Gold Coast is strategic to their (ICS) interests. Why else would they plan to go there in October, announce that 24 cars are already lined up for the trip and say they were trying to arrange a date for next year? If it was not important to ICS, they would never have agreed to go there this year.

But I also think the October date for next year is a non-starter because of other contractual agreements that ICS has and that whatever date is chosen it MUST allow for a concurrent travel arrangement with Montegi. The Gold Coast folks need to wake up to THAT realization, if THEY truly want to be part of the ICS schedule.

Gary

The Gold Coast folks don't need to wake up to anything Gary. They've been very accomodating to US based open wheel over the years. They found a sweet spot in October where they can get a much better financial return for the promoter. Nikon is now on board, Kirin and a multitude of other Mitsubishi brands are probably taking a closer look if Nikon works out.

I don't think the IRL/ICS can afford to lose Surfers. The Aussies will not let a "schtick" bully them over. I see a rival OW replacing ICS there.

[drewdawg727]

You heard it here first....
....I dont think we're going to race in Australia.

Pointless in my opinion...all the fans for the most part are not gonna care to watch it because the points race is over, and the race is just like any normal go-kart race of sort.

[Miatanut]

Come on, I'd bet money they guaranteed a certain former Champcar owner they would sign a long term contract with Surfers to ensure his Aussie sponsorship deal didn't fall through and the merger with Champcar went through as planned. Look at the IRL's schedule history. They have never had any intention of racing in October past this year. They are making offers for dates they know damn well Cochrane and the Surfer's Paradise organizers will reject so they can get out of the contract and pin the blame on them.
How about we change the 500 to Labor Day. What next, Long Beach in September?

I think you've nailed it right on the money. GP2 (or is it A1GP, can't keep track of them all!) will run in the IRL's place.

Never forget: It's all about Indy (the one in May).

[Miatanut]

I don't think the IRL/ICS can afford to lose Surfers. The Aussies will not let a "schtick" bully them over. I see a rival OW replacing ICS there.

The IRL can do without Surfers. They would rather not even go there this year.

I agree, a rival OW will replace it. No problem. Any world class series outside of F1 would be stupid not to take advantage of a good thing there!

Surfers is popular enough it represents a threat to Indy. We can't have that!

[jimispeed]

The IRL can do without Surfers. They would rather not even go there this year.


Sad

[pits4me]

The IRL can do without Surfers. They would rather not even go there this year.

I've heard it's not the IRL's decision to make. Honda has been enjoying increased sales in Australia for a few years now. The sole engine supplier usually gets what they want. Same goes with Bridgestone/Firestone.

[Miatanut]

I've heard it's not the IRL's decision to make. Honda has been enjoying increased sales in Australia for a few years now. The sole engine supplier usually gets what they want. Same goes with Bridgestone/Firestone.

This is Tony we're talking about here!

He's got all the major auto manufacturers attending his conference on the new engine formula and itching to compete in his league, right? What does he need Honda for anymore, now that he's the only game in town?

Not saying this is all true, just how things look to Tony. :D

[ShiftingGears]

Pointless in my opinion...all the fans for the most part are not gonna care to watch it because the points race is over, and the race is just like any normal go-kart race of sort.

If fans dont care to watch an IRL event because the pure spectacle of the motor racing cannot engage the audience when it is seperate from a championship, you know it's in big trouble.

[nigelred5]

I've heard it's not the IRL's decision to make. Honda has been enjoying increased sales in Australia for a few years now. The sole engine supplier usually gets what they want. Same goes with Bridgestone/Firestone.

I hope you are right and Honda is ready to foot the bill and split the event with Surfers. I just wish Honda would also stand up and tell the FIA to bit it and hold the races when they want, not when Bernie feels it's ok. Champcar may have been a threat to F1 in Asia, I can't see that as a problem for the Indycars. Maybe even return the Honda to the Honda Indy as I seem to recall it wasa titled for several years.

[SUBARUTEAM]

a couple of points that i would like to add:

1. there is NO WAY that they will move the date to Sept. The Bathurst 1000 v8 race is early Oct, and they will not put the street rare 2 weeks before the greatest touring car race in the world. Also, the weather could be an issue in Sept - its dodgy enough in October

2. Oct 21 is Labour weekend in New Zealand, therefore it is very easy for kiwis to travel over to Australia for the race. Tourism is the main industry on the gold coast.

3. I firmly beleive that the IRL will race there in 2009, as a non points race (as in this year). it will be a one race dash for cash. I beleive that Honda will insist on the this.

4. I can't say that I have been to the USA to watch indy car racing, but I have been to the gold coast twice and from my experience - it would take some beating. the whole weekend is fantastic

those are just my thoughts....

[-Helix-]

a couple of points that i would like to add:

1. there is NO WAY that they will move the date to Sept. The Bathurst 1000 v8 race is early Oct, and they will not put the street rare 2 weeks before the greatest touring car race in the world. Also, the weather could be an issue in Sept - its dodgy enough in October

2. Oct 21 is Labour weekend in New Zealand, therefore it is very easy for kiwis to travel over to Australia for the race. Tourism is the main industry on the gold coast.

3. I firmly beleive that the IRL will race there in 2009, as a non points race (as in this year). it will be a one race dash for cash. I beleive that Honda will insist on the this.

4. I can't say that I have been to the USA to watch indy car racing, but I have been to the gold coast twice and from my experience - it would take some beating. the whole weekend is fantastic

those are just my thoughts....

That would actually be kind of cool if they just made it a post-season knockout style exhibition for a large sum of cash. Make it like a series of 3 races and the last 7 finishers of the first two races get knocked out and then the final race with whoever is left would be for the money kind of like the NASCAR all-star event.

[weeflyonthewall]

Remember the Hawaiian GP? I don't see the ICS surviving Surfers as a non-points event.

[bravefish]

Anyone who has been to a major sporting event in Australia will testify that the Ozzies know how to put on a show, regardless of what the event is - for the series to not go to Surfers would be an absolute tragedy, especially since it is combined with the V8's. Barring Indianapolis (and only for its tradition and the magnitude of the thing) the Gold Coast race is 2nd to none. Its a fantastic weekend, the place just goes off for 3 straight days and if any of you north of the equator people havent been - get there before some pencil pusher makes the crazy decision to can the race ! The two Aussies and the Kiwi have stirred up so much interest and enthusiasm down this part of the world that this years race will be a must-see event - crowds will be huge - points or no points !

[djparky]

I went to Surfers way back in 1995 and it was brilliant- I think the V8's probably raced that weekend as well but I can't be sure- open paddocks, great atmosphere, huge crowds and seem to recall the weather was excellent as well- Indy Car would be mad to turn it's back on the only overseas event that has really been successful over the years

[racer69]

I went to Surfers way back in 1995 and it was brilliant- I think the V8's probably raced that weekend as well but I can't be sure-

V8s weren't there that year.

They first appeared there in 1994 (the first year that CAMS/FIA sanctioned the race), skipped 1995 but returned again as the main support act in 1996, through until 2001. For 2002 the V8s had originally pulled out of the meeting totally, but in the end a deal was brokered for it to be came a full touring car round for the V8s and gave them equal billing with the ChampCars.

Hopefully the Indycars stay.

The QLD government has decreed that the event will not continue as V8s only, it needs an international class for the event to continue.

[SportscarBruce]

After ICS experiences the passionate support on part of Australian racing fans and businesses, they'll be back. Aussies and Kiwis are among the most racing inclined people on the planet. They need to be courted, not taken for granted.

[weeflyonthewall]

After ICS experiences the passionate support on part of Australian racing fans and businesses, they'll be back. Aussies and Kiwis are among the most racing inclined people on the planet. They need to be courted, not taken for granted.

Or forced into a situation that only benefits one persons ego.

[SportscarBruce]

Or forced into a situation that only benefits one persons ego.

Works for F1.

[EagleEye]

24 cars will take the gree flag in sufers this year. The IRL has come to terms with the promoters there. However, each team will get less to make the race and most will send a skeleton crew over.

The number will be 24. 24 will be the number. 23 will no the number be, and 25 will also be not the number. The number will be 24.

The big question is 2009! The series is trying to return, but both sides are far apart on agreeing on when to have the race. One car owner has said that if there is no race, he will leave the series.

It would be a mistake for the IRL not to work out a plan to return to surfers. It is a great race, with a great crowd, and should happen before or after Motegi.

[weeflyonthewall]

Works for F1.

Doesn't Tony have a bigger hammer than Bernie or Max?

[weeflyonthewall]

24 cars will take the gree flag in sufers this year. The IRL has come to terms with the promoters there. However, each team will get less to make the race and most will send a skeleton crew over.

The number will be 24. 24 will be the number. 23 will no the number be, and 25 will also be not the number. The number will be 24.

The big question is 2009! The series is trying to return, but both sides are far apart on agreeing on when to have the race. One car owner has said that if there is no race, he will leave the series.

It would be a mistake for the IRL not to work out a plan to return to surfers. It is a great race, with a great crowd, and should happen before or after Motegi.

October to Surfers is as important as May is to Indy. Hope they don't frock it up.