Versus will become the exclusive cable television home of the Indy Racing League

[SoCalPVguy]

Per NY Times: Versus will become the exclusive cable television home of the Indy Racing League next year with its agreement to a 10-year deal worth an estimated $60 million. Versus, which will take over from ESPN and ESPN2, will carry 13 races. ABC will continue to broadcast the Indianapolis 500 and four other I.R.L. events. The agreement also gives Versus the rights to carry all of the Indy 500 qualifying. Scott Guglielmino, a vice president for programming for ESPN, said shedding the 13 I.R.L. races was not connected to the network’s holding Nascar rights.


VERY BAD MOVE Indy racing is now dead to me as we do not get Versus on our cable package and I am not paying extra for premium channels. Nobody gets Versus. Arch rival UCLA put a couple of games on Versus and only 1 out of 10 fans at best could find it - it was a disaster. At least Spike and Speed are basic cable - Versus is digital premium channel only - I doubt even your favorite sporta bar gets it.

If the IRL wants to be invisible to the general sporting public, broadcasting on Versus assures that !!!! Hello, anonimity...

Thank god USC football starts in less than a month - Go Trojans !!!

[domaza]

Per NY Times: Versus will become the exclusive cable television home of the Indy Racing League next year with its agreement to a 10-year deal worth an estimated $60 million. Versus, which will take over from ESPN and ESPN2, will carry 13 races. ABC will continue to broadcast the Indianapolis 500 and four other I.R.L. events. The agreement also gives Versus the rights to carry all of the Indy 500 qualifying. Scott Guglielmino, a vice president for programming for ESPN, said shedding the 13 I.R.L. races was not connected to the network’s holding Nascar rights.


VERY BAD MOVE Indy racing is now dead to me as we do not get Versus on our cable package and I am not paying extra for premium channels. Nobody gets Versus. Arch rival UCLA put a couple of games on Versus and only 1 out of 10 fans at best could find it - it was a disaster. At least Spike and Speed are basic cable - Versus is digital premium channel only - I doubt even your favorite sporta bar gets it.

If the IRL wants to be invisible to the general sporting public, broadcasting on Versus assures that !!!! Hello, anonimity...

Thank god USC football starts in less than a month - Go Trojans !!!

60 millions :o Amazing!!! + ABC Money

[The instant classic]

i have never heard of Versus?? but im still happy for indycar to get off ESPN,
it makes it wosre when your on a channel that also carrys nascar, cuz when it comes down to it, witch race will they carry?

again i never heard of Versus so i guess thats a bad thing,
its to bad nascar pretty much owns speedtv, cuz does anyone rember the old speed vision channel? they use to show alot of open weel racing, it sucks that nascar owns them now, cuz that channel could he been great,but we need a channel that even are friends from europe can watch ;)

[JSH]

I get versus(but I'm the only one of all my friends), but I agree it's a strange move for a sport trying to get into the mainstream again...

[Shirk]

a 10-year deal worth an estimated $60 millionSeems to me like Tony George has finally grown tired of funding some parts of the IRL out of his own (i.e. IMS's) pocket now that he's won the open-wheel war (by default).

[anthonyvop]

60 millions :o Amazing!!! + ABC Money



with its agreement to a 10-year deal worth an estimated $60 million.
Anybody else notice they didn't specify who is paying whom?

[nigelred5]

Versus used to be Outdoor Life Network, an I believe it's owned by Comcast, so no comcast, no versus unless they have a deal with your satellite provider. At least I get it and it is only 1 channel off all of the ESPN/ and local sports Channels on our Comcast lineup, so it's in the channel surfing neighborhood. Too bad sponsors won't give a rat's behind about the league now. They will basically see a 5 race series now.

[DBell]

Versus...hmm...why do I feel I've been down this road before? Oh yeah, CC and Spike. And to commit to 10 years at 6 mil a year? Doesn't seem like anyone is expecting a lot of growth in the series to make such a long term deal on a fairly obscure cable chanel. With the races still being produced by ESPN it seems we'll keep getting the same lousy production work we've come to expect this year. Sorry, hard to see this as anything but a step backward.

[drewdawg727]

Well, in retrospect, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. ICS is now on ESPN and ABC, and their ratings are not going up whatsoever.
I know ratings will most likely fall because of this, but we'll have to see what the real story is.
I get versus, I'm happy.

[inimitablestoo]

From a British perspective, I'm wondering how this affects Five's coverage. They tend to get most of their US sports coverage from ESPN. It would be a shame to lose it just as the series starts gathering momentum.

Although, as long as the indycar.com website keeps showing races for free, it might not be too much of an issue...

[anthonyvop]

Versus...hmm...why do I feel I've been down this road before? Oh yeah, CC and Spike. .
Spike is in 96.1 Million Households

Versus is in 73 million. SO about 1/4 less homes.

[-Helix-]

Versus used to be Outdoor Life Network, an I believe it's owned by Comcast, so no comcast, no versus unless they have a deal with your satellite provider.

Not true. I have Versus on my basic cable package and I have Brighthouse.

So the deal is worth 60 Million, eh? I believe I predicted 30-50 Million in the other thread. Guess I was a little low.

As for being invisible to the general public: They already are on ESPN, so what's the difference? At least now we'll be getting better coverage.

[indycool]

It sounds like there's going to be much more airtime on VS., separated from the glut of NASCAR on ESPN and Speed, at a time when the former OLN is in expansion mode and Comcast owns it, so I 'spect VS. is on the basic cable package on Comcast everywhere. The link the IRL has with DirecTV makes it available to everyone who goes that direction, and that's the technology of the future. ESPN is still in charge of international rights (rain or shine). And the IRL is still getting cash for the races and Indy and four others are on ABC.

Time will tell, but when I say time, I mean 3-5 years, not some 3-point "microwave" gain at Long Beach.

[Alexamateo]

Just FYI, I have Comcast, but VS is not in my cable package here in Memphis, It's in the Digital Variety Tier. I guess the only thing I need to figure out now is how much it's gonna cost me. :angryfire

[DrDomm]

I have Time Warner Cable, and have Versus. HD is split with the Golf Channel.

Anyway, I don't think there's a positive spin to this at all. Too bad.

[beachbum]

Found some interesting numbers. They are close to what has been posted previously, although like anything, the dates they were tabulated are important.

70 million television households for Versus (Dec 2006)
70 million television households for Speed (2006)
90 million television households for Spike TV (Dec 2006)
94 million television households for ESPN (Current from ESPN website)
90 million television households for ESPN2 (Current from ESPN website)

I get Versus, but only found one program some time ago that was worth watching. However, it looks like the program package will be much better than what ESPN and ABC are doing now so it may work out. With Speed going NASCAR all the time, there isn't much room left for other motor sports.

[DrDomm]

Just because a channel is available to a trillion people, doesn't mean that 50 of them are watching.

[FIAT1]

This is not good.

[ezhop7]

I get Versus with my Directv package. Since I'm in Colorado Springs and we don't have a racing track within a 500mile radius that is allowed to host a Indycar race. I don't feel sorry for you guys back on the East, Midwest or on the West coast crying about you don't have Versus.

[mlittle]

On the surface, it would seem to be an interesting, if odd move, going from ESPN/ESPN2 to Versus.......then again, there seems to be a couple of positives from today's announcement:
(1)each IndyCar broadcast on Versus will be, at a minimum, a 3-hr. broadcast without being joined in progress(IIRC, haven't a couple of ESPN's IndyCar broadcasts begun by them joining the race after it starts?) with extended pre-race coverage.
(2)a preview show the day before each race
(3)re-airs of all IndyCar races(regardless of whether the race originally ran on ABC or Versus) the following week
(4)a minimum of 10 hours of IndyCar-related programming each year
(5)weekly broadcasts of Indy Lights races

Granted, who knows if the move from ESPN to Versus will be a good move or not, but considering that ESPN seems to be slowly but surely moving towards NASCAR's sphere of influence, this could be a good move long-term.

[FormerFF]

We get Versus on Charter. If your cable system doesn't get it, hopefully you can get a satellite dish. If both of those aren't happening, there's the streaming video.

[SoCalPVguy]

On the surface, it would seem to be an interesting, if odd move, going from ESPN/ESPN2 to Versus.......then again, there seems to be a couple of positives from today's announcement:
(1)each IndyCar broadcast on Versus will be, at a minimum, a 3-hr. broadcast without being joined in progress(IIRC, haven't a couple of ESPN's IndyCar broadcasts begun by them joining the race after it starts?) with extended pre-race coverage.
(2)a preview show the day before each race
(3)re-airs of all IndyCar races(regardless of whether the race originally ran on ABC or Versus) the following week
(4)a minimum of 10 hours of IndyCar-related programming each year
(5)weekly broadcasts of Indy Lights races

Granted, who knows if the move from ESPN to Versus will be a good move or not, but considering that ESPN seems to be slowly but surely moving towards NASCAR's sphere of influence, this could be a good move long-term.

This would all be well and good IF we actually could get that channel.

[ZzZzZz]

At least Spike and Speed are basic cable - Versus is digital premium channel only - I doubt even your favorite sporta bar gets it.

Where I am (Silicon Valley) Versus is basic cable and SPEED is in a sports package that costs an extra $5/month. (Worth it.)

[ZzZzZz]

On the surface, it would seem to be an interesting, if odd move, going from ESPN/ESPN2 to Versus.......then again, there seems to be a couple of positives from today's announcement:
(1)each IndyCar broadcast on Versus will be, at a minimum, a 3-hr. broadcast without being joined in progress(IIRC, haven't a couple of ESPN's IndyCar broadcasts begun by them joining the race after it starts?) with extended pre-race coverage.
(2)a preview show the day before each race
(3)re-airs of all IndyCar races(regardless of whether the race originally ran on ABC or Versus) the following week
(4)a minimum of 10 hours of IndyCar-related programming each year
(5)weekly broadcasts of Indy Lights races

Granted, who knows if the move from ESPN to Versus will be a good move or not, but considering that ESPN seems to be slowly but surely moving towards NASCAR's sphere of influence, this could be a good move long-term.

I think if it's a good move or not comes down to how well the package is managed. Remember, racing put ESPN on the map. If Versus is enthusiatic and serious about this partnership, they will use Indy Car racing to build up their viewership. They seem to have the strategy right.

Sure, Spike had these cards, but they failed to play them well.

[garyshell]

I have Time Warner Cable, and have Versus. HD is split with the Golf Channel.

Anyway, I don't think there's a positive spin to this at all. Too bad.

Where are you located? Here in Cincinnati Time warner does not have Versus.

Gary

[jimispeed]

Where are you located? Here in Cincinnati Time warner does not have Versus.

Gary


If Gary doesn't get to see the races, there might be a problem..............

[garyshell]

If Gary doesn't get to see the races, there might be a problem..............


That is what I thought!!!!!

<big ol' grin>

Gary

[icehammer97]

Talking about the ratings. There is a difference between Spike and VS. VS is a sports channel while Spike has almost all scripted shows. I will give you one thing to think about with this whole thing. The NHL. It was on ESPN had a lockout and then went to VS. http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-TV-Ratings.htm
Versus's regular season coverage of the NHL is down about 170,000 viewers from games that ran on ESPN and up about 60,000 viewers from games that ran on ESPN2. And this is including the fact that many fans were driven away by the fact they had a whole year canceled. VS has the NHL and college football including games from BCS conferences the Pac 10 and Big 12 and fringe sports like bull riding. It is also growing every year ie thier football coverage has gone from 9 games 2 years ago to 23 this year. Also when Spike did their coverage they did not have any pre or post race shows like VS is going to have or a weekly Firestone Indy Lights telecast, at least 10 hours of ancillary programming each season, extensive coverage of all Indianapolis 500 qualification days, and more yet to be worked out. This is not going to a nothing station for no reason other then no one wants you. This is going to a network that is willing to give you more exposure on thier station then if you were on an ESPN or Speed station.

And for those who don't get VS here is an article for you http://mvn.com/irl/2008/08/07/to-indycar-fans-in-cincinnati-angry-with-the-new-tv-package/

[chuck34]

I posted this on the other thread about this topic, thought I'd post it here too and see what you guys thought over here.

I'm not all that thrilled about this. The optimist in me wants to think that this is going to end up being a really good thing. But then I think about CC and Spike, and I just don't know.

You know something just occured to me. Vs has the America's Cup, and The Tour de France (plus some other cycling stuff), now they have the IRL. Add a plane race or two, some CORR stuff, etc. and Vs will get back to the old SpeedVision days. That could work out to be awesome! We've all been wanting a Speed2 that has MOTORSPORTS on it not NASCAB, right?

[champcarray]

Wow, what an impressively bad piece of news. Tony has officially made American open wheel racing a footnote.

We just had a channel shuffle here on Comcast in central Connecticut a few weeks ago so I had to double check, but yes, we do indeed have Vs. here. Who knew? Looks like I'll get to watch the races, if I can stomach a couple more years of this formula. The lack of innovation is killing my interest.

[seppefan]

I think it can work well.
TG is getting paid at last which will in part be reinvested.
At last we will get a quality production rather than the crap I have been watching for the last four years covering both ChampCar and the IRL. Good commentators, ten hours of non racing coverage about the series.
VERSUS get free advertising from ABC for the races they do not cover,
I am sure they will sell the package to Eurosport or similar meaning the European fanbase will also get the improved coverage.
Interesting to see who gets the extra race or two in 2010 if the series expands to 20 races.
Bring it on and I reckon it will work as anything is better than the present coverage. If you have not got VERSUS, go get it as they are a top quality progamme company.

[DrDomm]

Where are you located? Here in Cincinnati Time warner does not have Versus.

Gary

Upstate NY (Binghamton).

[jso1985]

I guess they don't have a counterpart in LatinAmerica right?

I hope ESPN can continue broadcasting it here

[nigelred5]

I suspect the coverage will be no better or worse to the viewers, since the release says ESPN will still be producing all of the coverage, it's just a question of how many viewers there will be. Will it actually get the cross-network promotion from Comcast. Clearly they laid down the cash to promote their national sports channel, even though they also have the regional Comcast Sportsnet, so I hope so. Will they be able to get advertisers to sponsor the side by side? Can we get Marty and Scott replaced?? Can we get real pit reporters???.

[Cart750hp]

I have a MobiTV on my cell and still can watch races.

Versus? Sounds like Spike TV to me. This better not be a Kalkhoven influence. Oh well, I'll keep my MobiTV and watch Baskeball and Football....oh wait I see NASCAR too.

[dataman1]

I have DISH in central Indiana. I will have to increase my package to get Versus. Cost increase of around $25/month for channels I am unlikely to view except Versus.

I fail to see how this will improve TV viewership when the economy is in a downturn. Why would anyone pay more money to watch 19 - 20 races a year? TV Viewership will go down IMO.

[fugariracing]

I have a MobiTV on my cell and still can watch races.

Versus? Sounds like Spike TV to me. This better not be a Kalkhoven influence. Oh well, I'll keep my MobiTV and watch Baskeball and Football....oh wait I see NASCAR too.

Funny you should mention the Kalkster since w/o Surfers at the moment, the Aussie Vineyards sponsorship disappears and probably Power does too. He's sold out on one series, put another team owner to the sidelines (Walker) and now a suggestion he is trying to put the ICS into more obscurity with this deal.

The contract is bad, no question about it, IMO.

[jimispeed]

Champcar did this with Spike. It was a disaster. VS. just shows a bunch of hunting shows right now!!

Hardly the market for Indycar.

And won't this just make Indycar have to spend more to promote it's product and bring people to a network that most people don't even venture to, let alone know exists??

Sounds like one of Champcars biggest mistakes!!

I think maybe staying with ESPN, and improving everything about the series first would be a better choice. Both would cost more money, but people would see it, and ESPN would pay more positive dividends IMO.

[garyshell]

Champcar did this with Spike. It was a disaster. VS. just shows a bunch of hunting shows right now!!

Hardly the market for Indycar.

And won't this just make Indycar have to spend more to promote it's product and bring people to a network that most people don't even venture to, let alone know exists??

Sounds like one of Champcars biggest mistakes!!

I think maybe staying with ESPN, and improving everything about the series first would be a better choice. Both would cost more money, but people would see it, and ESPN would pay more positive dividends IMO.

No they show a lot more than JUST hunting shows. Lose the hyperbole. They also have the Americas Cup, the Tour de France, NHL etc.

Stay with ESPN and continue to play second or third fiddle to NASCAR, why?

I am not at all happy with the choice of Versus. But I am happy with telling ESPN to take a hike. What has the mouse network done for the series? Very damn little.

Gary

[-Helix-]

Champcar did this with Spike. It was a disaster.

Except...

- The ICS is actually getting PAID by Versus. Champcar had to pay Spike for airtime.

- Champcar had a one hour MAXIMUM timeslot for races on Spike. The ICS will have a 3 hour MINIMUM timeslot for races.

- Champcar was secondary programming on Spike that got no promotion at all and the network hardly cared how well it did. The ICS will be primary programming on Versus and will be promoted to death by a network that actually wants to succeed and has the potential to become the next ESPN by providing an alternative for sports fans who are sick of ESPN's love of Spelling Bee's and Poker instead of actual sports.

- Versus is actually a sports network that shows the NHL, the Tour de France, College Football and Basketball, Rugby, other motorsports, among other things. Spike has Pros v.s. Joes and UFC mixed in with their endless re-runs of video shows filled with gas station attendants protecting their money from robbers.

[call_me_andrew]

I remember when Champ Car left SPEED saying they didn't want to be second fiddle to what had originally been planned as a 24-hour NASCAR channel. How'd that turn out?

[jimispeed]

Except...

- The ICS is actually getting PAID by Versus. Champcar had to pay Spike for airtime.

- Champcar had a one hour MAXIMUM timeslot for races on Spike. The ICS will have a 3 hour MINIMUM timeslot for races.

- Champcar was secondary programming on Spike that got no promotion at all and the network hardly cared how well it did. The ICS will be primary programming on Versus and will be promoted to death by a network that actually wants to succeed and has the potential to become the next ESPN by providing an alternative for sports fans who are sick of ESPN's love of Spelling Bee's and Poker instead of actual sports.

- Versus is actually a sports network that shows the NHL, the Tour de France, College Football and Basketball, Rugby, other motorsports, among other things. Spike has Pros v.s. Joes and UFC mixed in with their endless re-runs of video shows filled with gas station attendants protecting their money from robbers.


Maybe it will work!! I hope you're right on all of that....

[jimispeed]

No they show a lot more than JUST hunting shows. Lose the hyperbole. They also have the Americas Cup, the Tour de France, NHL etc.

Gary


Well I've had the channel for about three years now. It used to be the "Outdoor Life Network".

I've seen PBR, Hockey, A1GP?? and a whole lot of hunting shows!! Some Cage Fighting.

Dennis Miller has a sports show on it!

[LTalbot]

I have been watching Versus and before the name change the Outdoor Life Channel for years. The way they cover the Tour de France is absolutly stunning and I believe they will do justice to IndyCar. With the increased coverage for races and special programming, IndyCar could become their flagship. The viewers who watch programming on Versus are a wide demographic. From bike racing fans to Hockey to Cagefighting to Bullriding to the America's Cup, you cannot get much more diverse, and many of which I'm sure will flock to IndyCar. Now if they can just replace Marty and Scott.

[pits4me]

I get versus(but I'm the only one of all my friends), but I agree it's a strange move for a sport trying to get into the mainstream again...

The same network that went to a paid infomercial during NHL playoffs last year. Hockey fans were unable to see the fourth overtime in which Henrik Sedin scored the winning goal in Game 1 of the Western Conference quarterfinals between the Dallas Stars and the Vancouver Canucks. Great game until they dropped the coverage during a 3rd OT timeout.

[-Helix-]

The same network that went to a paid infomercial during NHL playoffs last year. Hockey fans were unable to see the fourth overtime in which Henrik Sedin scored the winning goal in Game 1 of the Western Conference quarterfinals between the Dallas Stars and the Vancouver Canucks. Great game until they dropped the coverage during a 3rd OT timeout.

Which only happened for certain people that had a specific cable provider because it was a mistake by the cable company, not Versus.

Nice try blowing it out of proportion.

[Jag_Warrior]

Well I've had the channel for about three years now. It used to be the "Outdoor Life Network".

I've seen PBR, Hockey, A1GP?? and a whole lot of hunting shows!! Some Cage Fighting.

Dennis Miller has a sports show on it!


I just looked at the Versus offerings on my channel guide. There is something called Racer TV that features motorcycle racing. There is another show called the Motorsports Hour that features "car crashes and other extreme motorsports action." There's a bicycle race on Saturday afternoon. There's a couple of shows that appear to deal with extreme fighting (or whatever you call it) and several bull riding shows. And I see that Hooter's Pro Cup is on at 4PM on Monday. But the overwhelming majority of shows listed from today through Sunday afternoon are hunting or fishing based programs.

I used to enjoy hunting and shooting quite a bit. When I watched OLN, I'd catch The World of Beretta. I bet Benelli's On Assignment and Winchester Legends are good shows, for those who enjoy hunting and shooting. Dangerous Game (the best hunt I was ever on involved a pack of wild boars and me with a .45 Magnum crawling on my stomach) and Monster Bulls sound good too. But these shows probably don't attract the typical racing demographic.

Maybe the IRL can gain sponsorships with Winchester, Remington, Beretta/Benelli, Cabela's and other sponsors that actually do seem to be big supporters of OLN/Versus programming. But I think that anyone who expects Versus to transform itself into "The IRL Channel" (or even a motorsports channel) in the next six months is likely due for a shock next season. The IRL is going to get more airtime on a channel that is available to fewer people than ABC/ESPN. How that plays out with sponsor exposure values and Nielsens is anybody's guess. But it goes without saying that sponsors will adjust their budgets (up or down) based on ROI, not fan emotions.

[Jag_Warrior]

Since several here have claimed that the NHL/Versus deal is a sign of what (potential) success looks like, I am posting this to show that the NHL may see it one way and the players another. IMS/IRL may see the Versus deal one way. The teams and drivers may see it another way.

From Robin Miller:

The National Hockey League, always a tough sell on television, opted to leave ESPN for Versus in 2005 because it felt abandoned just like IndyCar. Its feelings were soothed by the reported $70 million it was paid.

A few days ago, NHL Player's Association executive director Paul Kelly complained about Versus to The Sporting News, stating: "The players want the greatest exposure possible, particularly in the United States. We've got a majority of our guys living and playing in the U.S. and they are not satisfied with the nature of coverage at the national level in the U.S. While we would love Versus to rise up and become what ESPN is in terms of programming in homes, hotels and sports bars, the reality is they're not there."

Given the current state of things, I understand that it's not possible to just snap ones fingers and produce a better deal out of thin air. But part of the longer term risk has been illustrated by Miller in this snippet:


And several IRL owners voiced their understandable concerns about trying to sell a $3-6 million sponsorship package on a network primarily known for ultimate fighting that used to be the Outdoor Network.

Still, if it's not working, IndyCar can't afford to hang with Versus too long and TGeorge will simply get in line like everyone else on four wheels except NASCAR and buy time on network television.

[-Helix-]

I can't see the IRL ever having to pay for airtime, or any teams having to deal with sponsorship problems (any more than they already do that is).

The 500 has been and most likely always will be the reason the IRL has success in both of those departments. The 500 will still be on ABC, and ABC is still paying the IRL, and the sponors that are attracted to the IRL because of Indy will still be attracted to the IRL.

[garyshell]

I can't see the IRL ever having to pay for airtime, or any teams having to deal with sponsorship problems (any more than they already do that is).

The 500 has been and most likely always will be the reason the IRL has success in both of those departments. The 500 will still be on ABC, and ABC is still paying the IRL, and the sponors that are attracted to the IRL because of Indy will still be attracted to the IRL.


If all of that were true then why are they going to Versus in the first place???

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

If all of that were true then why are they going to Versus in the first place???

Gary

In the words of the girl from My Name Is Earl (no pun intended), "Oh snaaap!"

If you'd told me 15 years ago that just having a bump day at Indy (where there's an actual bump or two) would be considered a big deal, I'd have said you were crazy. If you'd told me that the Nielsen ratings for Indy would be lower than those for the Coca Cola 600, and also dwarfed by the Daytona 500 roughly 2:1, I'd have said, "Ah man, get outta here!"

Isn't it amusing that Sanguin and -Helix- probably have more in common than either would realize or admit, eh? :D

[ZzZzZz]

The same network that went to a paid infomercial during NHL playoffs last year. Hockey fans were unable to see the fourth overtime in which Henrik Sedin scored the winning goal in Game 1 of the Western Conference quarterfinals between the Dallas Stars and the Vancouver Canucks. Great game until they dropped the coverage during a 3rd OT timeout.

But that sort of thing happens all the time on the networks. Iirc, we missed the start of a race on ABC *this* year.

The best *quality* coverage has been from SPEED.

The most viewers is on the networks.

It is impossible to get ideal coverage right now.

So, hopefully the quality of the coverage and support shows will be like SPEED.

Also, sponsors know that not all viewers are equal. Half the viewers won't mean half the value.

Important to this deal - this reality - is consumer access and the potential for growth. All stakeholders must be enthusiastic in this partnership. Then they will all maximize their benefit.

Robin Miller's NHL comments bring to mind that the NHL is now our partner in this. Indy Car fans and NHL fans have a common interest in having their local cable companies carrying Versus.

[ezhop7]

I'm not complaining about Versus because I get the channel with my DIRECTV, the same people who don't get the NFL channel complain (so I get the NFL ticket) and can watch every game not just four) But the reality is today Indycar racing is a niche sport and is not mainstream like NASCAR. Believe it or not promoters, drivers, good leadership and a sound business plan is what got NASCAR from TNN and tape delayed races ion Wide World of SPorts(ABC) to multi-million dollar tv contracts, naming rights and sponsors. Give Versus a chance! Because what was the alternative!

[dataman1]

Link to Robin Miller's view posted on SpeedTV

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indycars-million-dollar-tv-question//P1/

[The instant classic]

thats one thing i will never do read what robin miller writes,everytime i listen or read what he says, i want to punch him :)

better off getting news from other sites,

[dataman1]

thats one thing i will never do read what robin miller writes,everytime i listen or read what he says, i want to punch him :)

better off getting news from other sites,

I agree, but Robin seems to get a lot of respect by writers on this forum so I thought I would let everyone see his words.

[The instant classic]

I agree, but Robin seems to get a lot of respect by writers on this forum so I thought I would let everyone see his words.
sometimes i read his comments, and robin is like anti indycar,,

miller is just the type of guy, you agree with him, like many fans here,
or you dont like him,, i do agree with miller on somethings,

miller is just a love/hate kind of guy

[carracing]

Maybe the fact that Versus is NOT a built-up channel will be an advantage - more time to show MORE of IRL and other non-NASCAR series (like Hooters Pro Cup which we've watched on that network). We have Versus with DirecTV and have watched the channel a few times in the past. SPEED channel was little "road less traveled" in the past and now it's huge - perhaps Versus will be a HUGE opportunity for IRL/fans the way SPEED was for NASCAR?

*crossing fingers* :D

[-Helix-]

If all of that were true then why are they going to Versus in the first place???

Gary

Uhm... for more money and better coverage?

Would you prefer less money and horrible coverage?

And people think Tony does a bad job running this sport. :p

[-Helix-]

In the words of the girl from My Name Is Earl (no pun intended), "Oh snaaap!"

If you'd told me 15 years ago that just having a bump day at Indy (where there's an actual bump or two) would be considered a big deal, I'd have said you were crazy. If you'd told me that the Nielsen ratings for Indy would be lower than those for the Coca Cola 600, and also dwarfed by the Daytona 500 roughly 2:1, I'd have said, "Ah man, get outta here!"

Isn't it amusing that Sanguin and -Helix- probably have more in common than either would realize or admit, eh? :D

So what does your lack of outlook 15 years ago have to do with the topic at hand again?

[garyshell]

Uhm... for more money and better coverage?

Would you prefer less money and horrible coverage?

And people think Tony does a bad job running this sport. :p


Better coverage? Or hope for better coverage? No one knows yet if any of the promised additional air time will come to fruition.

With 20 million fewer homes, the appeal to sponsors is already been questioned by some of the team principles. And while the 500 is the draw to the sponsors, it is not the ONLY thing that they look to. The fact that there are 20 million fewer possible viewers is going to give some of them pause, when deciding to pull the pin or not.

As one of those 20 million homes, I am really disappointed by the decision. I sure as hell am not going to run out and replace my cable TV which works rain or shine with the satellite setup like my father and nephew have that can't be seen in a downpour. And I am not holding my breath that Time Warner is going to bring that channel back in their lineup.

Gary

[-Helix-]

Better coverage? Or hope for better coverage? No one knows yet if any of the promised additional air time will come to fruition.

Well I actually get Versus and watch it quite frequently. I've seen what they've done with their NHL coverage and know that they're capable of great coverage. So no, it's not "hope". I actually know what I'm talking about. They've already promised us a 3 hour minimum timeslot for races and without having to worry about having to rush to the start of a tape delayed softball game it already sounds pretty good and will probably be even better. Also, no NASCABs constantly being shoved down our throats.


With 20 million fewer homes, the appeal to sponsors is already been questioned by some of the team principles. And while the 500 is the draw to the sponsors, it is not the ONLY thing that they look to. The fact that there are 20 million fewer possible viewers is going to give some of them pause, when deciding to pull the pin or not.

When you already get 0.3's on ESPN, what's the difference? Atleast the ICS will have room to stretch it's legs on Versus where it actually has a chance to grow instead of being pushed down below poker replays and hot dog eating contests.

More airtime = sponsors getting more exposure for their money. Some sponsors probably see Versus as a GOOD thing, believe it or not.

Ratings, especially non-Indy ratings, don't play that important of a role in sponsor decisions. Ratings are a sham to begin with (and sponsors know this) but that's a whole different topic. It isn't as simple as "oh less people = less money". It's a bit more complex than that. They're going to take in Versus' potential and the different kinds of audiences that are tuning in into account as well. When you already have a small hardcore fanbase that is pretty loyal to the sponsors that work with the series, a slightly smaller hardcore fanbase is not going to make that much of a difference. They're still getting about the same bang for their buck, and because Indy is still on ABC, the ratings that the sponsors are REALLY interested in shouldn't suffer at all.


As one of those 20 million homes, I am really disappointed by the decision. I sure as hell am not going to run out and replace my cable TV which works rain or shine with the satellite setup like my father and nephew have that can't be seen in a downpour. And I am not holding my breath that Time Warner is going to bring that channel back in their lineup.

Gary

Well I'm sorry for your situation. (Though it sounds like it's a personal choice to not be able to view the races to me) But thankfully networks have the ability to grow to more households. I bet at one point you didn't get ESPN either.

I would recommend bugging the hell out of your cable provider and getting others to do the same. It's up to us the fans to see Versus reach more households. Though I already get it, so I'm pretty happy.

[indycool]

It's difficult for me to understand (and bigtime TV people must be able to explain it) why Time Warner in Cincinnati doesn't have Versus and Time Warner in other locations does. One would think the a cable provider's deal with a network would be the WHOLE network and the WHOLE cable provider system. I suppose it's how they strike a bargain as to how much someone pays someone, but it's still confusing.

Comcast recently took the TV Guide channel off its basic program in Indianapolis. No notice, no nothing. Just "Channel Not Available" comes up when you hit the numbers. It appears to me that you sign up with any of these providers that they can be very arbitrary about what they give to you for how much money when.

Not only because of versus or Indycar, but I've thought for quite awhile that it's time for me to check out different deals and see if I can do better. When I got around to doing that with my cell phone and home phone and redoing the deals, it saved me $700 a year.

[Jag_Warrior]

So what does your lack of outlook 15 years ago have to do with the topic at hand again?

Take 15 years and figure it out for yourself. :)

Originally Posted by -Helix- http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=517078#post517078)
I can't see the IRL ever having to pay for airtime, or any teams having to deal with sponsorship problems (any more than they already do that is).

[Jag_Warrior]

More airtime = sponsors getting more exposure for their money. Some sponsors probably see Versus as a GOOD thing, believe it or not.

Some may. No one is suggesting that ALL sponsors will see Versus as a bad deal. Some may be perfectly fine with it, depending on what their expectations are. But sponsor exposure value is calculated based on On-screen time + mentions x non-discounted commercial ad cost. The ad rates on Versus are not as great as those on ABC, or likely even ESPN. So it would take a greater amount of time x in focus views + mentions on Versus for a sponsor to get the same level of sponsor exposure value as they'd have gotten on ABC/ESPN.



Ratings, especially non-Indy ratings, don't play that important of a role in sponsor decisions. Ratings are a sham to begin with (and sponsors know this) but that's a whole different topic.

Indy, being the biggest race and ratings bucket is the biggest slice of the pie - that is accurate. But to say that sponsors don't consider the ratings of non-Indy ratings to be that important is completely inaccurate. Commercial networks make the bulk of their money selling ad time. ABC/ESPN had trouble selling non-discounted ad time on the non-Indy races. Why? I would say because the ratings and viewership figures were relatively low... but I'm not stating that as a fact. Probably a good guess though. Low ratings generally mean less ad revenue. Less ad revenue means that your product won't be valued as highly as a program with higher ratings and better ad revenue.

And it's not that "ratings are a sham"... and no, sponsors don't know this. The Nielsen measurement system is like any other measurement system based on random sampling. Various groups and sponsors (not just related to racing or sports) have voiced concerns that Nielsen Media is missing a necessary component of measurement system analysis: that the system be not just random, but also representative of the population universe being measured.

Certainly the Nielsen system is not perfect. But it's typically those fans of lower rated shows that complain that the system is a "sham or "bogus" or "not fair." But only if there was proof of bias in the system could people show that Nielsen systematically undercounts those who watch certain programs. The main issue I've heard that subscribers have with Nielsen is its lack of accurate representation to the population, which hampers them in doing deep demographic studies.



It isn't as simple as "oh less people = less money". It's a bit more complex than that.

It's not that much more complex. Ratings and viewership are used to set ad rates. Ad rates, being a component, drive sponsor exposure values. Sponsors (arms length companies) primarily use historical sponsor exposure values to determine future sponsorship levels or limits.

Excluding B2B arrangements, that's how the three divisions of my former company determined sponsorship limits, that's how my current company sets its F1 budget and that's how every participating company at the sponsorship conference in Charlotte several years ago determined what level of sponsorship cost would still provide an acceptable ROI.



They're going to take in Versus' potential and the different kinds of audiences that are tuning in into account as well. When you already have a small hardcore fanbase that is pretty loyal to the sponsors that work with the series, a slightly smaller hardcore fanbase is not going to make that much of a difference.

In your opinion.



They're still getting about the same bang for their buck, and because Indy is still on ABC, the ratings that the sponsors are REALLY interested in shouldn't suffer at all.

It's interesting that you already know this when meetings just began yesterday to determine what Versus means for teams, the series and sponsors. Charlie Morgan admits that he's still not sure how many IRL fans are even reached by Versus. Instead of trying to spin this, why not just admit (like the rest of us... and the IRL/IMS) that these are still open questions at this point?

The IRL and its teams may find a way to make this work for sponsors and fans. But despite the spin going on here, that question has yet to be answered.

[carracing]

It's difficult for me to understand (and bigtime TV people must be able to explain it) why Time Warner in Cincinnati doesn't have Versus and Time Warner in other locations does. One would think the a cable provider's deal with a network would be the WHOLE network and the WHOLE cable provider system. I suppose it's how they strike a bargain as to how much someone pays someone, but it's still confusing.

Comcast recently took the TV Guide channel off its basic program in Indianapolis. No notice, no nothing. Just "Channel Not Available" comes up when you hit the numbers. It appears to me that you sign up with any of these providers that they can be very arbitrary about what they give to you for how much money when.

Not only because of versus or Indycar, but I've thought for quite awhile that it's time for me to check out different deals and see if I can do better. When I got around to doing that with my cell phone and home phone and redoing the deals, it saved me $700 a year.

Now you see why so many people are going satellite and cable is dropping so fast. Going with a national satellite provider (DirecTV is the best IMO - more sports packages/options) ensures that you will get these channels and that they won't just drop off like they do with a local provider. Watch for big deals on FREE installation, FREE receivers and sometimes FREE upgrade to HD which in my experience has made a HUGE difference in our race-watching experience.

[DBell]

Now you see why so many people are going satellite and cable is dropping so fast. Going with a national satellite provider (DirecTV is the best IMO - more sports packages/options) ensures that you will get these channels and that they won't just drop off like they do with a local provider. Watch for big deals on FREE installation, FREE receivers and sometimes FREE upgrade to HD which in my experience has made a HUGE difference in our race-watching experience.

You list some of the pros that satellite offers, but there are cons. The main one that prevents me from going to the dish is that if you live in an area that has a lot of thunder storms, you will have to put up with a lot of service interuptions. Our friends that have dish satellites have told us that when it storms, they lose their signals.

[JSH]

You list some of the pros that satellite offers, but there are cons. The main one that prevents me from going to the dish is that if you live in an area that has a lot of thunder storms, you will have to put up with a lot of service interuptions. Our friends that have dish satellites have told us that when it storms, they lose their signals.

I live in SE Michigan. Summer contains frequent severe thunderstorms and winter has frequent severe snowstorms.

My DirecTV signal drops out for about an average of 10 minutes per year - due to satellite reception. :p

Power related drop outs due to the wildly inadequate electrical infrastructure in this country are a completely different issue. :vader:

[dataman1]

LIke JSH, I too live in a rural area (central Indiana) where electricity is lost far more often than the digital signal from a dish. No cable offered. I have had C/Ku-band for nearly 15 years. Added the DISH Network around 5 years ago. Yes, I loose signal during heavy thunderstorms for maybe 3 minutes but likely would loose electrical first. Once the power goes doesn't matter where the signal is coming from. You're not going to see it unless you invest in a generator.

FYI, Versus is not in my package with either the big dish or Dish Network. Guess I'll watch from a bar.

[nigelred5]

I had Dish for six months. It was horrible. Signal always dropping, pixillated screens constantly, more picture related service calls, than I could count, and the infamous, you realy need to take down those two trees.. Hmmmm, a two hundred year oak tree in my yard I WON'T take down, and a HUGE Maple tree on city property I CAN'T, or your POS satellite dish? I put up wiht comcast until Verizon finally gets the FIOS in our neighborhood.

[MDS]

My biggest problem with this deal. No matter how popular ICS gets over the next decade at least 13 of 22 (The historic max) races have to be on a rather obscure cable channel. No matter how positive you spin it, its not the greatest deal ever. Maybe the greatest deal available.

The worst case scenario is we get 18 cars driving around empty tracks in front a group of about 300,000 die hards, which is pretty much what the league was until this year

[indycool]

Like Pook or Craig or Gentilozzi or KK or GF?

We really don't know the details of this deal. We know it's a 10-year deal. We don't know "out" or "in" clauses in it that may or may not exist based on ratings or reach. Do I think the deal will be the same "split" in Year #10 as it is in Year #1? We hafta wait 10 years to find out, but NO.

[carracing]

You list some of the pros that satellite offers, but there are cons. The main one that prevents me from going to the dish is that if you live in an area that has a lot of thunder storms, you will have to put up with a lot of service interuptions. Our friends that have dish satellites have told us that when it storms, they lose their signals.

Good point, but I think the signals/technology/equipment have really come around in the last few years. I live in the middle of nowhere in the California desert - we get sand storms and major winds about half the year. We had one storm that knocked out reception, but it was back on in about 15 minutes. The new HD dish that they have is even better - tons of summer t-storms this year and ZERO signal loss. We had Dish Network a few years back and it was awful - lots of dropped signals - I felt like I was playing telephone with paper cups & string. lol Not sure if DirecTV is just "that much better" or if it's just the evolution of the technology. I would NEVER go back to cable. My mom lives 20 miles away and her cable is out all the time. The worst part? She has cable TV, Internet and VoIP phone, so when it goes - it ALL goes.

[chuck34]

I have DirecTV and the only time that it has gone out for me is when I should be in the basement, not watching TV.

[dj420]

I have DirecTV and the only time that it has gone out for me is when I should be in the basement, not watching TV.
Agree; I also have DirecTv & if the sat goes out, I need to be listening to the weather radio, not watching a race.

[garyshell]

LPGA??? Again???? Maybe there is a silver lining in the Versus TV deal. At least we won't have to watch golf as the race starts.

Gary

[indycool]

THREE-way playoff......sheesh.

[NickFalzone]

agreed gary, i can't fathom how there's viewership over 100,000 for a women's golf event. Do people really watch that? And VS can be channel 200 for all I care, as long as they don't bump the start of the races.

[ozrevhead]

From a British perspective, I'm wondering how this affects Five's coverage. They tend to get most of their US sports coverage from ESPN. It would be a shame to lose it just as the series starts gathering momentum.

Although, as long as the indycar.com website keeps showing races for free, it might not be too much of an issue...
Same here - im not sure if we can get Versus in Oz

We might be up s- creek with not much of a paddle If they dont offload it to another station

[NickFalzone]

I read earlier that ESPN would carry the international feeds of the races, but that might only apply to the 5 they have purchased.

[ozrevhead]

and what happens with the rest of them???

Looks like we will lose our race AND our coverage at the same time :(

[NickFalzone]

as far as i can tell, internationally ESPN holds the rights to their 5 races, and the rest you'd have to get either on indycar.com, versus.com, or mediazone.com. I believe there's a 24 hr delay on mediazone, but you do get to see the full race:

http://www.mediazone.com/channel/racing/schedulemain.jsp

[ozrevhead]

oh thats just dandy isnt it :(

[MDS]

As far as rain fade and Vs. I've noticed that certain channels seem to have a more relaible position on the satelite bandwith, or something. Like right now I have BBC America on but Verses has been off the air in my house for hours.

I have flipped to Vs a few times since the announcement to check out their programming, and it seems to largely be made up of cheaply produced hunting reality shows. I could see where their viewers would be attracted to NASCAR, but Indy Car?

[garyshell]

Report from AP:


Versus Making Its Plans for IndyCar Broadcasts


Sep 10, 11:35 AM (ET)
By The Associated Press Since it was announced last month that the majority of the IndyCar Series schedule will be shown on the Versus cable channel for at least the next 10 years, a debate has raged over whether the series should have stayed with ABC/ESPN family of networks, which currently reaches more homes.

ABC will continue to broadcast the Indianapolis 500 and four other races through 2012, but Versus will air at least 13 races each season, beginning in 2009. IndyCar officials are hoping the new partnership will breath life into the television production and give the open-wheel series more exposure.

Several Versus executives took in the points finale last weekend at Chicagoland Speedway, spending considerable time in meetings.

"There's nothing in place right now, but I think over this relationship, because it's so long, we definitely want to be innovative and hear from the fans, the viewers and the teams (on) what can be done to make the viewing experience better," said Marc Fein, executive vice president programming, production and business operations.

"One of the reasons we're here this weekend is to take it all in and to see if any ideas come to mind, either on our own or from talking to a lot of folks," he added. "We're going to look at everything."

Versus is owned by Comcast Corp. and reaches about 74 million homes through cable and satellite.

Fein said the network has not yet made any decisions on a broadcast team.

"As we get properties, we like to put our own brand and stamp on them," he explained. "For (NHL) hockey, it was a combination of people who have done it in the past, nationally, versus some other folks who we brought on to give them their chance. We want to be smart. We want to be credible, obviously, and have the right people out there, and we also want to infuse some life into it."

Fein said what is known is that the race broadcasts will be three hours, instead of the current two-hour windows.

"That will give us more time to cover personalities, the behind-the-scenes," he noted. "We're also going to have a one-hour qualifying preview show the day before each race, which is also going to help us build excitement for the weekend." Besides the NHL, Versus also broadcasts college football, Davis Cup, Tour de France, mixed martial arts and bull riding.

Gary