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Bezza
1st August 2008, 10:57
Come on then, lets all vote and see who comes out the best.

Please post your top 25 only. Points are as follows - 50 for 1st, 48 for 2nd, 46 for 3rd, and so on.

Any driver that has raced in F1 from 1950 to 2008 can be included. I am not including drivers pre-world championship era.

Once I have all the results in about a month (hopefully), I will post the results and then nobody can argue.... ;)

Bezza
1st August 2008, 11:04
I'll start!

1. Senna
2. Lauda
3. Schumacher
4. Mansell
5. Stewart
6. Clark
7. Piquet
8. Fangio
9. G Hill
10. Ascari
11. Hakkinen
12. Prost
13. Surtees
14. Reutemann
15. Jones
16. Rindt
17. Alonso
18. Scheckter
19. D Hill
20. Raikkonen
21. Moss
22. K Rosberg
23. Brabham
24. Andretti
25. McLaren

jens
1st August 2008, 19:26
I wonder, why do you want to have a "point system" of 50-48-46-etc, when an easier solution would be 25-24-23-etc. :p :

1st August 2008, 19:31
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1st August 2008, 19:53
Come on then, lets all vote and see who comes out the best.

Please post your top 25 only. Points are as follows - 50 for 1st, 48 for 2nd, 46 for 3rd, and so on.

Any driver that has raced in F1 from 1950 to 2008 can be included. I am not including drivers pre-world championship era.

Once I have all the results in about a month (hopefully), I will post the results and then nobody can argue.... ;)

I don't think lists like this are meaningful, for the simple reason that my favourites aren't necessarily the best, yet because of this subjective approach they will nearly always end up either in front of, or level with, a more deserving but not particularly liked driver.

wedge
2nd August 2008, 00:44
I don't think lists like this are meaningful, for the simple reason that my favourites aren't necessarily the best, yet because of this subjective approach they will nearly always end up either in front of, or level with, a more deserving but not particularly liked driver.

Looking at Bezza's list is, to put it mildly, unusual!

I can easily come up with a top 10 but a top 25 with any satisfaction has left my head scratching!

1. M Schumacher
2. Clark
3. Stewart
4. Senna - wet weather skills
5. Prost - always jumped into the best car possible
6. Fangio - always jumped into the best car
7. Ascari
8. Alonso - posed more threat to Schumi than Hakkinen, IMO
9. Lauda
10. Piquet

Rollo
2nd August 2008, 02:51
1. Fangio
2. Stewart
3. Clark
4. Prost
5. Senna
6. Schumacher
7. Lauda
8. Moss*
9. Brabham
10. Piquet
11. Hawthorn
12. Fittipaldi
13. Ascari
14. G Hill
15. Surtees
16. Häkkinen
17. Alonso
18. Farina
19. Mansell
20. D Hill
21. Rindt
22. Räikkönen
23. Scheckter
24. Badoer*
25. Jones

*Indicates non-world champions.
*24 - Whilst Badoer may have never have actually scored a single F1 point, his subsequent testing for Ferrari is a very big reason why they've scored 6 titles in 8 years and should have scored a 7th in 1999.

jso1985
4th August 2008, 01:53
1.- Senna
2.- E.Fittipaldi
3.- Fangio
4.- G.Hill
5.- Stewart
6.- Ascari
7.- Lauda
8.- M.Schumacher
9.- Prost
10.- Clark
11.- Piquet Sr.
12.- Rindt
13.- Häkkinen
14.- Brabham
15.- Alonso
16.- Hulme
17.- Mario Andretti
18.- Moss
19.- Hunt
20.- K.Rosberg
21.- McLaren
22.- Amon
23.- Raikkonen
24.- Barrichello
25.- R. Rodriguez

a bottom 100 F1 drivers list would be more colourful to discuss :p

gm99
4th August 2008, 21:46
1) Fangio
2) M. Schumacher
3) Senna
4) Ascari
5) Clark
6) Lauda
7) Stewart
8) Prost
9) G. Hill
10) Rindt
11) Fittipaldi
12) Jack Brabham
13) Alonso
14) Mansell
15) Piquet Sr.
16) Moss
17) Häkkinen
18) Gilles Villeneuve
19) Mario Andretti
20) Surtees
21) Reutemann
22) Jones
23) Jacques Villeneuve
24) Hunt
25) Brooks (to me, the most underrated driver of the 1950s)

jens
7th August 2008, 21:35
It would be more interesting if some kind of criteria would be brought forth or created too to explain, how have the lists resulted in such ranking. At the moment they seem quite random.

BDunnell
7th August 2008, 21:49
OK then. My list, knocked up on the spur of the moment for something to do, is based purely on my personal views as regards ability and performance, nothing more — no bias because of nationality or people who won favourite races, for instance. But ask me why one person is ahead of another, and I probably couldn't say. ;)

1. Fangio
2. M. Schumacher
3. Senna
4. Clark
5. Stewart
6. Prost
7. Moss
8. Ascari
9. Lauda
10. Rindt
11. J. Brabham
12. E. Fittipaldi
13. Mario Andretti
14. Farina
15. Ickx
16. Piquet snr
17. Scheckter
18. Jones
19. G. Hill
20. Häkkinen
21. McLaren
22. K. Rosberg
23. Amon
24. G. Villeneuve
25. Alonso

So, there you go. Totally pointless but good fun doing. And the absence of Mansell and Damon Hill, while I include non-world champions Moss, Ickx and (non-race winner) Amon is no error.

ioan
7th August 2008, 21:53
OK then. My list, knocked up on the spur of the moment for something to do, is based purely on my personal views as regards ability and performance, nothing more — no bias because of nationality or people who won favourite races, for instance. But ask me why one person is ahead of another, and I probably couldn't say. ;)

1. Fangio
2. M. Schumacher
3. Senna
4. Clark
5. Stewart
6. Prost
7. Moss
8. Ascari
9. Lauda
10. Rindt
11. J. Brabham
12. E. Fittipaldi
13. Mario Andretti
14. Farina
15. Ickx
16. Piquet snr
17. Scheckter
18. Jones
19. G. Hill
20. Häkkinen
21. McLaren
22. K. Rosberg
23. Amon
24. G. Villeneuve
25. Alonso

So, there you go. Totally pointless but good fun doing. And the absence of Mansell and Damon Hill, while I include non-world champions Moss, Ickx and (non-race winner) Amon is no error.

A fair ranking! :up:

BDunnell
7th August 2008, 21:58
A fair ranking! :up:

Thanks, though no more or less fair than anyone else's. We all have our different reasons for liking one above another, even though direct comparisons are all but impossible.

My father says that he has watched four drivers that he considers exceptional — Clark, Stewart, Senna and Schumacher. Put Fangio in front of them, as I feel you must, and I think you end up with quite a good starting point for such a list.

EDIT — though, with hindsight, I think I should have ranked Häkkinen above Hill, Jones, Scheckter and Piquet.

jens
7th August 2008, 23:08
It's basically impossible to compare drivers themselves from different eras. To create any comparison platform, then the only way is to rate, how competitively they relatively raced against their rivals of their own era - who was able to shine among them in his own era and who maybe not so much.

But there are a lot of issues, when we're trying to create a ranking.
Nowadays we are discussing a lot about drivers' skills. Both insiders and among fans there are talks like someone is underrated and other one overrated and someone has never had the chance to show his true talent, but would be a world beater in a top car. Etc.

But it was exactly the same in the past. We can find loads of underrated drivers, who don't get acknowledged any more, but who back then were truly spectacular drivers.

Gm99 mentioned Brooks. Yes, he almost matched Moss during their time together at Vanwall and Moss is, as we know, a very highly rated driver.

And to just bring out some other examples.
Another guy is Dan Gurney - driver, who Clark arguably feared the most. And I'd say that with a good reason, but he never got a proper chance. After gaining some experience at Ferrari he brought to the relatively uncompetitive Porsche their only F1 win. After that he was driving for Brabham during the team's build-up phase and was beating the team owner! Shame he left the team just before it rose to the top as DG started his own team. But even there he was quick, winning a race at Spa and absolutely dominating the race on the hardest circuit in the world - Nürburgring - until the car let down. IMO Gurney easily deserves to be somewhere up there, but unfortunately I can't see his name in anyone's list.

Peterson isn't mentioned either - a ferociously quick driver, who had the honour to achieve March's best ever WDC result (P2 in 1971) and was creating headaches to Fittipaldi in 1973, but after becoming No.1 driver at Lotus their downfall started...
Or Cevert, who was rated as Stewart's successor and should/could have went on to challenging titles, but...

Fatalities, being at a wrong place at a wrong time or just narrowly missing the title, something which would/could have put a driver into a much different light and made more memorable for folks. The latter could well be Ickx, who was a worthy rival to Stewart and Fittipaldi, but as he failed to win a title, his name doesn't have so much emphasis in the history books.

BDunnell
7th August 2008, 23:52
It's basically impossible to compare drivers themselves from different eras. To create any comparison platform, then the only way is to rate, how competitively they relatively raced against their rivals of their own era - who was able to shine among them in his own era and who maybe not so much.

Quite right. That's why I just treated this as a pointless bit of fun.



Fatalities, being at a wrong place at a wrong time or just narrowly missing the title, something which would/could have put a driver into a much different light and made more memorable for folks. The latter could well be Ickx, who was a worthy rival to Stewart and Fittipaldi, but as he failed to win a title, his name doesn't have so much emphasis in the history books.

And a great rival to Rindt, too, for Ickx was of course the man who could have beaten Rindt to that posthumous title. There was a period of 12 months — I forget whether it was from mid-1968 to mid-'69, or mid-1969 to mid-'70 — during which he scored more points than anyone else in the F1 world championship. It was a shame he never put such a run together during a single season, for had he done so, I think that combined with his sportscar exploits (which he always saw as a bit of a substitute for F1) would have elevated him amongst the F1 pantheon. But it wasn't to be. It's also a pity that a slump by Ferrari and then, as soon as he joined them, by Lotus saw to it that his F1 career tailed off somewhat.

Rollo
8th August 2008, 02:05
It would be more interesting if some kind of criteria would be brought forth or created too to explain, how have the lists resulted in such ranking. At the moment they seem quite random.

Of the top six I selected, only Schumacher actually had the chance to show what he was capable of:

1. Fangio's F1 career started at the age of 37 because there was a bloody war in the way.
2. Stewart retired because he was disgusted that drivers were being killed week in and week out, especially Cevert. He then spent a great deal of time actually doing something about it, which IMHO is of far greater worth to the sport than any mere championship title.
3. At the time Clark died, he had won more Grands Prix races (25) and taken pole positions than any other driver.
4. Prost won four championships, but had two stolen from him by operation of the rules and another taken from him by sheer malevolence.
5. Senna probably would have/could have/should have taken at least three championships had he not crashed at Imola. Certainly the Williams was superior to everything else, and I think yielded two championships for drivers who otherwise would not have made the cut.
6. Schumacher himself whilst supremely brilliant as a driver, showed consistently that his character on track at least was not fitting of a champion.

jso1985
10th August 2008, 06:11
It's basically impossible to compare drivers themselves from different eras. To create any comparison platform, then the only way is to rate, how competitively they relatively raced against their rivals of their own era - who was able to shine among them in his own era and who maybe not so much.

But there are a lot of issues, when we're trying to create a ranking.
Nowadays we are discussing a lot about drivers' skills. Both insiders and among fans there are talks like someone is underrated and other one overrated and someone has never had the chance to show his true talent, but would be a world beater in a top car. Etc.

But it was exactly the same in the past. We can find loads of underrated drivers, who don't get acknowledged any more, but who back then were truly spectacular drivers.

Gm99 mentioned Brooks. Yes, he almost matched Moss during their time together at Vanwall and Moss is, as we know, a very highly rated driver.

And to just bring out some other examples.
Another guy is Dan Gurney - driver, who Clark arguably feared the most. And I'd say that with a good reason, but he never got a proper chance. After gaining some experience at Ferrari he brought to the relatively uncompetitive Porsche their only F1 win. After that he was driving for Brabham during the team's build-up phase and was beating the team owner! Shame he left the team just before it rose to the top as DG started his own team. But even there he was quick, winning a race at Spa and absolutely dominating the race on the hardest circuit in the world - Nürburgring - until the car let down. IMO Gurney easily deserves to be somewhere up there, but unfortunately I can't see his name in anyone's list.

Peterson isn't mentioned either - a ferociously quick driver, who had the honour to achieve March's best ever WDC result (P2 in 1971) and was creating headaches to Fittipaldi in 1973, but after becoming No.1 driver at Lotus their downfall started...
Or Cevert, who was rated as Stewart's successor and should/could have went on to challenging titles, but...

Fatalities, being at a wrong place at a wrong time or just narrowly missing the title, something which would/could have put a driver into a much different light and made more memorable for folks. The latter could well be Ickx, who was a worthy rival to Stewart and Fittipaldi, but as he failed to win a title, his name doesn't have so much emphasis in the history books.

you're always ruining the fun with depth-serious analysis, don't you? :p

jens
11th August 2008, 17:38
you're always ruining the fun with depth-serious analysis, don't you? :p

:laugh:

Sorry. :) But what about having fun together with analysis? :p :

Rollo
19th August 2008, 00:51
We've only had six people and it's been like 19 days. Unless we six people are the only ones qualified enough to give an opinion.

I can tell you who's leading the polls and it aint Schumacher. ;)

markabilly
19th August 2008, 15:05
My list but one that could change day to day;

1. Fangio-(cause everyone says so)
2. Clark- (cause I thought he was far bettter than MS)
3. M. Schumacher
4. Stewart
5. Mario Andretti-see below
6. Prost
7. Senna
8. Ascari
9. Lauda
10. Dan Gurney
11. Mansell
12. Graham Hill
13. Moss
14. G. Villenue
15. Ickx
16. Piquet snr
17. Scheckter
18. Jones
19. Hakkinen
20. K. Rosberg
23. Alonso
24. Surtees
25. J Brabbham

Everytme I think about it, with number 13 and many below 13, I shuffle the deck a little......
Gurney and Andretti are there, in part, because they did well as Americans (so I show a little basis), and Andretti drove extremely well in some many different forms of racing and for a very long time. If Andretti had stuck to F1 from 1968 on, I think he would have been the first 4-time WDC (behind Fangio)

I have never quite figured out just how good was Moss in my mind. Was he as good as Clark? Better or worse? Behind Graham Hill? Hard to say.

And note that I only put drivers who are no longer racing, because until their career is over, it is really difficult to evalaute where the the driver should be (Examples are LH and FA--when they are finished, good as MS or far worse???, no way to tell until they are finished with their careers)

speeddurango
20th August 2008, 02:50
Senna himself whilst supremely brilliant as a driver, showed every once in a while that his character on track at least was not fitting of a champion.

uh oh, sorry again, I just couldn't resist, I respect Senna as much as I do, and I would put him on the top of my chart, but just sometimes fed up with people's double standard.

Rollo
20th August 2008, 03:50
The story thus far:
161 - A Driver
158 - The Next One
157 - Place Three
151 - Number 4 so far
150 - rounds out the top five

56 - "Il Leone"

But only seven people have been prepared to step up so far :eek:

blito
20th August 2008, 22:23
after much thought i will offer my opinion

1 Clark
2 Moss
3 Fangio
4 Stewart
5 Ascari
6 Mansell
7 Senna
8 M Shumacher
9 Brooks
10 Prost
11 Lauda
12 Petersen (my hero btw)
13 G Villeneuve
14 Behra
15 P Rodriguez
16 Watson
17 G Hill
18 Reuteman
19 Hamilton
20 K Rosberg
21 N Piquet
22 Regazzoni
23 Jones
24 Hunt
25 Ukyo Katayama :D


hope that helps

ShiftingGears
21st August 2008, 08:56
1 Schumacher
2 Clark
3 Fangio
4 Stewart
5 Senna
6 Ascari
7 Prost
8 Lauda
9 Moss
10 Alonso
11 Fittipaldi
12 Rindt
13 Piquet
14 Mansell
15 Raikkonen
16 Jones
17 Andretti
18 G. Hill
19 Rosberg
20 Brabham
21 Hakkinen
22 D. Hill
23 Ickx
24 Scheckter
25 Surtees

I am assuming that by F1 you mean "Formula One world championship drivers" because otherwise Nuvolari and Varzi would be in it. I'll give Hamilton a few years, and Alonso and Raikkonen need to up their games a bit in the future.

I tended to rate the top drivers based on the "eras" of Formula One. Fangio was the benchmark in the 50's, Clark in the 60's, Stewart in the 70's, Senna in the 80's, Schumacher in the 90's and 00's, and now I think we may see Hamilton be the benchmark. I didn't rate Prost in the top 5 because I don't think he was as talented as the 6 above him, and Senna was not higher in my list because, despite his natural talent, he was very erratic.

haggle
22nd August 2008, 12:39
I fell over this thread this morning by mistake, but thought that it might be fun to spend five minutes working out my 'top 25'. The rest of the day was entirely wasted trying to figure the whole thing out. The top five, or even ten, are relatively easy in terms of content, but not necessarily in terms of order. The rest (as others have said before) looks like the result of some random generating machine gone a bit wrong. Here is my take on the whole thing, and please forgive me if I go from bottom to top, simply because the 'bottom' bits are often more interesting than the top ones. Here goes:

25. Roberto Moreno ('Super-sub', and so oftern faster than those for whom he 'subbed'!)
24. Graham Hill
23. Denny Hulme (Beat Jack at his own game, and in his own car...)
22. Jacky Ickx (the nearly man)
21. Bruce Mclaren (built his own F1 car and won at the first attempt)
20. Stefan Johansson (remember that Spirit-Honda debut?)
19. Jean Alesi (perhaps not the most successful, but an entertainer...)
18. Carlos Reuteman (So nearly...)
17. Stirling Moss
16. Gerhard Berger
15. Mario Andretti
14. Emerson Fittipaldi
13. Nelson Piquet
12. Alberto Ascari
11. Gilles Villeneuve
10. Mika Hakkinen
9. Ronnie Peterson
8. Jochen Rindt
7. Alain Prost
6. Jackie Stewart
5. Nicky Lauda
4. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Ayrton Senna
2. Michael Schumacher
1. Jim Clark

Sorry Nige...

H.

blito
26th August 2008, 22:43
we need more votes for ukyo!

DezinerPaul
29th August 2008, 09:14
1: Schumacher
2: Clark
3: Prost
3: Fangio
3: Ascari
6: Senna
7: Lauda
8: Moss
9: Brabham
10: Stewart
11: Fittipaldi
12: G Hill
13: Rindt
14: Piquet
15: Hawthorn
16: Farina
17: Andretti
18: Hakkinen
19: Petterson
20: Mansell
21: Hill
22: Berger
23: Hulme
24: D Hill
25: Surtees

Dave B
29th August 2008, 09:34
I tended to rate the top drivers based on the "eras" of Formula One. Fangio was the benchmark in the 50's, Clark in the 60's, Stewart in the 70's, Senna in the 80's, Schumacher in the 90's and 00's, and now I think we may see Hamilton be the benchmark.
I agree with every word in that paragraph, but will refrain from naming my "top 25" as I simply can not rank drivers from different eras. Fangio and Schumacher might as well have competed in totally different sports, such is the gulf of difference between historic and contemporary F1.

William Hunt
31st August 2008, 22:41
1. Juan-Manuel Fangio (Arg)
2. Jim Clark (Eng)
3. Ayrton Senna (Bra)
4. Jacky Ickx (Bel)
5. Stirling Moss (Eng)
6. Alberto Ascari (Ita)
7. Jackie Stewart (Sco)
8. Ronnie Peterson (Swe)
9. Mario Andretti (USA)
10. Michael Schumacher (D)
11. Emerson Fittipaldi (Bra)
12. Nelson Piquet Sr. (Bra)
13. Gilles Villeneuve (Can)
14. Graham Hill (Eng)
15. Jack Brabham (Aus)
16. Niki Lauda (Aut)
17. Tony Brooks (Eng)
18. Jochen Rindt (Aut)
19. Riccardo Patrese (Ita)
20. Chris Amon (N-ZL)
21. Jean Behra (Fra)
22. Dan Gurney (USA)
23. Didier Pironi (Fra)
24. Lorenzo Bandini (Ita)
25. Giuseppe 'Nino' Farina (Ita)
26. Stefan Bellof (D)
27. Jody Scheckter (RSA)
28. Tom Pryce (Wales)
29. Pedro Rodriguez (Mex)
30. Eugenio Castellotti (Ita)

Rollo
2nd September 2008, 00:26
Once I have all the results in about a month (hopefully), I will post the results and then nobody can argue.... ;)

A month later we've had a dozen replies, a few people decline on the basis that they refused to compare eras and I have been tallying the results as they came in.
Is it time to publish it yet? Because even if we do give the results, people will still complain despite not voting... it's a bit like a general election isn't it?

GJD
2nd September 2008, 17:08
Ickx 4th? :crazy: :crazy: :laugh: :laugh:

blito
2nd September 2008, 22:18
if it were a list compiled on all-round motorsports ability then sure, why not ickz 4th?
not a great f1 career but the man excelled at le mans after all.....

on that basis alone the multi-talented mssrs moss and clark will always win out over the single seater specialists such as senna and schumi (who wasnt at all impressive at mercedes group c iirc)

William Hunt
2nd September 2008, 23:18
Ickx 4th? :crazy: :crazy: :laugh: :laugh:

Ickx was by far the best sportscar driver that ever walked this planet!
He won 6 times the 24hrs of Le Mans in times that it was much harder to win and with a variety of cars. He was the man to beat in sportscars for over a decade. On top of that he was in F1 (where he never really had the best car, apart from 1970 although Lotus still had a better car) the best rain driver of his era and exceptionally fast on natural tracks like the Nürburgring, he managed 2 vice-world titles in F1 as well.

Another driver that might be a surprise to you is Chris Amon, I put him in position 20 but easily could have ranked him much higher. It might be a surprise to you because he never won a Grand Prix (apart from 1 non championship F1 race) but he was one of the fastest of his generation and extremely unlucky not to win, he had bad luck whilst leading on countless occasions.

And a guy like Stirling Moss might even deserve the nr. 1 spot, based on what he achieved in other classes besides F1 as well. During the final years of his carreer Moss was also clearly the best F1 driver, he was simply unmatched but he had poor, privately entered, cars at that time. He achieved miracles with them, often beating the factory cars.

Rollo
3rd September 2008, 00:51
if it were a list compiled on all-round motorsports ability then sure, why not ickz 4th?
not a great f1 career but the man excelled at le mans after all.....

on that basis alone the multi-talented mssrs moss and clark will always win out over the single seater specialists such as senna and schumi (who wasnt at all impressive at mercedes group c iirc)

On a multi-discipline basis, the names Andretti (an F1 WDC, Indy 500, Daytona 500, as well as a few Le Mans entrants), Moss (who never won a World Championship - but did win the Mille Miglia and the 1000km Nuburgring race), Surtees (who to date is the only person to win WDCs on two and four wheels).
But the biggest credit has to go to Graham Hill who is the only driver to have take the Triple Crown of Motorsport (under whatever definition you choose).

jens
3rd September 2008, 10:07
Ickx 4th? :crazy: :crazy: :laugh: :laugh:

What's here to laugh? William Hunt explained it already quite well. Who said all the lists must be about the same and other drivers should not get the nod they deserve too? In his prime Ickx was a worthy rival to basically anyone in F1 and he managed to adapt to F1 very quickly - if Hamilton's debut season is rated as the most impressive ever by some, then Ickx's was no worse. Or you downplay him just because he doesn't have the statistics to earn him a good position? ;)

Bezza
3rd September 2008, 13:38
A month later we've had a dozen replies, a few people decline on the basis that they refused to compare eras and I have been tallying the results as they came in.
Is it time to publish it yet? Because even if we do give the results, people will still complain despite not voting... it's a bit like a general election isn't it?

I'm extending the poll onto at least November 1st at this rate! Tell your friends to vote...!

Rollo
4th September 2008, 00:32
My esteemed colleague Jens is quite right of course - the original instruction was:

Please post your top 25
and if opinion should reign anywhere then this is the thread for it.

CNR
4th September 2008, 07:22
in some ways i would put Sir Jack Brabham at the top.
only man to win the Formula One world championship driving one of his own cars



now a question is Eddie Jordan making money from the book or what is he smoking

Tommy Byrne was the best of them all



But there are those in the Formula One paddock, who have been around for a while, who will shake their heads. Eddie Jordan, for example, the former team owner who took Schumacher into F1, will tell you: “Forget Senna and Schuey. Tommy Byrne was the best of them all.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/2676475/Chequered-past-of-Formula-Ones-greatest-driver-Tommy-Byrne---Motor-Racing.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Byrne_(racing_driver)


Tommy Byrne (born May 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_6), 1958 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958) in Drogheda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogheda), County Louth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Louth)) is a former racing driver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_driver) from Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland). He participated in five Formula One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One) Grands Prix in 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982), debuting on August 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_8). He scored no championship points.

ArrowsFA1
4th September 2008, 08:55
now a question is Eddie Jordan making money from the book or what is he smoking

Tommy Byrne was the best of them all
TB was very impressive in FF & F3. He was also damned quick in a McLaren test, but the Theodore he got to drive in F1 was never going to allow him to show his talent. Had he raced for McLaren...one of the great "what ifs".

His book is one of the best racers stories to be told.

Hawkmoon
4th September 2008, 12:42
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Jim Clark
3. Alain Prost
4. Ayrton Senna
5. Juan Manuel Fangio
6. Jackie Stewart
7. Stirling Moss
8. Niki Lauda
9. Nelson Piquet
10. Dan Gurney
11. Graham Hill
12. Jack Brabham
13. Alberto Ascari
14. Gilles Villeneuve
15. Nigel Mansell
16. Jochen Rindt
17. Emmerson Fittipaldi
18. Mika Hakkinen
19. Mario Andretti
20. Ronnie Petersen
21. Carlos Reutemann
22. Alan Jones
23. Jean Alesi
24. Riccardo Patrese
25. Lorenzo Bandini

William Hunt
4th September 2008, 21:57
There's so many drivers that in terms of starts or stats are overlooked but who were massively talented but for several reasons didn't make a great F1 carreer, either because they died young or simply because they didn't get the opportunity or only poor cars.

One of the most talented drivers of the '70s was no doubt Tony Brise, he only participated in 10 races in 1975, first in a Williams, then he switched to Graham Hill's Lola team. But he died in an airplane crash (Graham was also in that plane), aged only 23! He was extremely fast but never had the time nor a reliable car to show it.

Hayley
5th September 2008, 13:53
Here is my go.

1 - Senna
2 - Schumacher
3 - G Villeneuve
4 - Prost
5 - Clark
6 - Fangio
7 - Stewart
8 - Moss
9 - Surtees
10 - Petersen
11 - Hunt
12 - Mansell
13 - Ascari
14 - Brabham
15 - Lauda
16 - Piquet Snr
17 - J Villeneuve
18 - Hakkinen
19 - Coulthard
20 - Damon Hill
21 - Alonso
22 - Pironi
23 - Reutemann
24 - Patrese
25 - Rindt

This list is not just based on skill and results its also based on personality and contribution to the sport as a whole.

dwf1
6th September 2008, 11:52
1. Schumacher M
2. Senna
3. Clark
4. Fangio
5. Prost
6. Lauda
7. Stewart
8. Moss
9. Villeneuve G
10. Fittipladi E
11. Hill G
12. Rindt
13. Mansell
14. Berger
15. Hakkinen
16. Hill D
17. Rosberg K
18. Brabbham J
19. Surtess
20. Jones
21. Baoder (for same reason about ferrari testing and his drive in 1999)

dwf1
6th September 2008, 11:52
got stuck after that

Yesman
20th September 2008, 23:52
Is this still going on? anywho here's my list.

1st G.Villeneuve
2nd Ascari
3rd Clark
4th Lauda
5th Schumacher
6th Senna
7th Prost
8th Piquet
9th Moss
10th E Fittipaldi
11th Hunt
12th Fangio
13th Ickx
14th Peterson
15th Andretti
16th J Villeneuve
17th Alonso
18th G Hill
19th Brooks
20th Jones
21st Raikkonen
22nd K Rosberg
23rd Arnoux
24th Gurney
25th Purley - All time hero, worthy of a mention.

markabilly
21st September 2008, 02:11
Ickx 4th? :crazy: :crazy: :laugh: :laugh:


Actually a very good driver, took a F2 car to the German GP in 1967, and ran the wheels off of some very fine racers.......on a tough circuit, the old fying ring, where drivers got points for how well they flew. Rates a number 4? Probably not. Same for Amon. Top 25? No but very good

Does my heart good to note that Andretti is not completely forgotten

futuretiger9
22nd September 2008, 20:42
Here is my list:-

1. Senna
2. Fangio
3. Clark
4. M Schumacher
5. Moss
6. Stewart
7. Prost
8. Ascari
9. Lauda
10. Hakkinen
11. Peterson
12. Piquet snr
13. G Villeneuve
14. G Hill
15. Mansell
16. J Brabham
17. Ickx
18. Raikkonen
19. Rindt
20. Reutemann
21. Hunt
22. D Hill
23. D Gurney
24. E Fittipaldi
25. C Amon

Garry Walker
24th September 2008, 14:44
Is this still going on? anywho here's my list.

1st G.Villeneuve
.
11th Hunt
12th Fangio
.
16th J Villeneuve


:rotflmao:

BDunnell
27th September 2008, 02:28
Is this still going on? anywho here's my list.

I hate to dismiss someone's personal opinion — and I'd certainly never laugh at someone else's personal choice when it comes to something very subjective like this — but I'd be interested in your justification for some of your rankings.



1st G.Villeneuve

On what basis? Yes, he was brilliant and spectacular, but a better F1 driver in the pantheon of greats than a Schumacher, a Fangio or a Clark? I think one has to view people on what they actually achieved, rather than what they could have achieved.



25th Purley - All time hero, worthy of a mention.

Don't want to seem too harsh, but helping save someone's life doesn't make you a great F1 driver. It may make you a hero, but I don't think this is the point of this sort of listing.

markabilly
27th September 2008, 04:19
Here is my go.

1 - Senna
2 - Schumacher
3 - G Villeneuve
4 - Prost
5 - Clark
6 - Fangio
7 - Stewart
8 - Moss
9 - Surtees
10 - Petersen
11 - Hunt
12 - Mansell
13 - Ascari
14 - Brabham
15 - Lauda
16 - Piquet Snr
17 - J Villeneuve
18 - Hakkinen
19 - Coulthard
20 - Damon Hill
21 - Alonso
22 - Pironi
23 - Reutemann
24 - Patrese
25 - Rindt

This list is not just based on skill and results its also based on personality and contribution to the sport as a whole.


no andretti, but peterson is? :down:

Rollo
1st October 2008, 03:59
Once I have all the results in about a month (hopefully), I will post the results and then nobody can argue.... ;)

Two months later? I can tell you what the results are.

BrentJackson
1st October 2008, 04:10
1 - Ayrton Senna de Silva

2 - Michael Schumacher
3 - Gilles Villeneuve

4 - Alain Prost
5 - Jim Clark
6 - Niki Lauda
7 - Jackie Stewart
8 - Juan Manuel Fangio
9 - Sterling Moss
10 - John Surtees

11 - Graham Hill
12 - Emerson Fittipaldi
13 - Ronnie Petersen
14 - Jack Brabham
15 - Mario Andretti
16 - Nelson Piquet Sr.
17 - Mika Hakkinen
18 - Jacques Villeneuve
19 - Nigel Mansell
20 - Dan Gurney
21 - Fernando Alonso
22 - Jean Alesi
23 - Jacky Ickx
24 - Carlos Reutemann
25 - Lewis Hamilton

Rollo
10th October 2008, 00:07
Should we go and declare this now? This thread appears to have gone stale.

Steve
15th October 2008, 20:47
OK here goes:

25. Kimi Raikkonen (for his sheer pace in an open-wheeler)
24. Niki Lauda (Austrias only champion)
23. Mike Hawthorn
22. Jean Alesi
21. James Hunt (for his muscle personality)
20. Rubens Barrichello (for putting up with Schumacher)
19. Jody Scheckter (I am South African after all!)
18. Ronnie Peterson
17. Mario Andretti
16. Jacki Ickyx (not sure how to spell that!)
15. Graham Hill
14. Jack Brabham
13. Keke Rosberg
12. Mika Hakkinen
11. Nelson Piquet
10. Nigel Mansell
9. Alberto Ascari
8. Jackie Stewart
7. Alain Prost
6. Gilles Villeneuve
5. Jim Clark
4. Stirling Moss
3. Juan Manuel Fangio
2. Michael Schumacher
1. Ayrton Senna

blito
22nd October 2008, 21:53
OK here goes:


24. Niki Lauda (Austrias only champion)




So, errr, what country was Jochen Rindt from then?

Rollo
3rd November 2008, 22:37
Three months now - you've all had your chance to vote and if you didn't for whatever reason - too bad.

01 - 430 Schumacher
01 - 430 Senna
03 - 428 Clark
04 - 418 Fangio
05 - 365 Stewart
06 - 354 Prost
07 - 326 Lauda
08 - 307 Ascari
09 - 294 Moss
10 - 238 Piquet
11 - 210 G Hill
12 - 196 G Villeneuve
13 - 181 Fittipaldi
14 - 166 Mansell
15 - 164 Brabham
16 - 155 Hakkinen
17 - 146 Rindt
18 - 136 Andretti
19 - 126 Petersen
20 - 99 Alonso
21 - 86 Ickx
22 - 74 Surtees
23 - 59 Rosberg
24 - 53 Jones
25 - 51 Hunt
26 - 47 Gurney
27 - 44 Reutemann
28 - 39 D Hill
29 - 38 Scheckter
30 - 34 Brooks
31 - 33 Raikkonen
32 - 31 Farina
33 - 30 J Villeneuve
34 - 29 Hawthorn
35 - 26 Berger
36 - 18 Alesi
37 - 17 Behra
38 - 16 McLaren
39 - 16 Hulme
40 - 14 Amon
41 - 12 Rodriguez
42 - 11 Patrese
43 - 10 Watson
44 - 8 Jones
44 - 8 Hamilton
44 - 8 Barrichello
47 - 7 Pironi
47 - 7 Coulthard
47 - 7 Badoer
50 - 6 Johansson
51 - 5 Reutemann
51 - 5 P Hill
53 - 4 Regazzoni
54 - 3 Bandini
54 - 3 Arnoux
56 - 1 Purley
56 - 1 Moreno
56 - 1 Katayama

jens
3rd November 2008, 23:06
Amazing that after so many votes the winner is unclear. Will we now use F1'esque method to clarify the winner and see, which one (MS vs AS) has got more wins? :D

BDunnell
3rd November 2008, 23:43
Surely a penalty has to be applied somehow?

Seriously, I think it's ended up with a very fair top 10, in my opinion with the exception of Piquet at 10. Lower down, I'm not so sure...

Rollo
4th November 2008, 04:36
Piquet not in the top ten? Piquet is only one of a few people to have been a triple world champion. Surely that has to count for something?

blito
12th November 2008, 22:35
and how did Reutemann manage to be listed twice...

and only 1 vote for Ukyo Katayama :(

6wheeler
14th November 2008, 06:05
Niki Lauda
Giles Villeneuve
Peter Revson
Mark Donahue
James Hunt
Ronnie Peterson
Kimi Raikkonen
Aryton Senna
Mario Andretti
Jacques Villeneuve
Phil Hill
Sterling Moss
Fangio
Nigel Mansell
Jackie Stewart
Mika Hakkinen
John Surtees
Jochen Rindt
Graham Hill
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve
Jimmy Clark
Jody Scheckter
Michael Schumaker
Alain Prost

DazzlaF1
15th December 2008, 18:55
Its not related this but i am running my own list of the top 20 BRITISH drivers on my blog, i've done reviews of those in 20th to 16th but (as a sort of giveaway), heres my list in full

1. Jim Clark
2. Jackie Stewart
3. Graham Hill
4. Stirling Moss
5. Nigel Mansell
6. John Surtees
7. Damon Hill
8. James Hunt
9. Lewis Hamilton
10. David Coulthard
11. Mike Hawthorn
12. Tony Brooks
13. Johnny Herbert
14. John Watson
15. Eddie Irvine
16. Martin Brundle
17. Jenson Button
18. Peter Collins
19. Tom Pryce
20. Derek Warwick

llgc8080
17th January 2009, 23:42
My top ten:
1) Fangio
2) Schumacher
3) Senna
4) Clark
5) Prost
6) Stewart
7) Lauda
8) Moss
9) Ascari
10) Mansell

race_director
31st May 2009, 01:09
I have watching f1 from 1995. so i am posting guys whom i have seen in TV

Alex young
Yugi ide
Narain Karthikeyan
Tarso Marques
Pedro Lamy
Ricardo Rosset
Vincenzo Sospiri
Shinji Nakano
Norberto Fontana
Jan Magnussen
Toranosuke Takagi
Stephane Sarrazin
Ricardo Zonta
Luciano Burti
Gaston Mazzacane
Tomas Enge
Enrique Bernoldi
Allan McNish
Zsolt Baumgartner
Nicolas Kiesa
Ryan Briscoe
Giorgio Pantano
Bjorn Wirdheim

Sakon Yamamoto




so hows the list ? :)

woody2goody
31st May 2009, 03:51
Ignoring that last list ;) I think we should start this up again and try to get everyone to compile their lists.

Here's my 25 to add:

1. M Schumacher (GER)
2. J Fangio (ARG)
3. J Clark (GBR)
4. A Ascari (ITA)
5. F Alonso (ESP)
6. A Senna (BRZ)
7. N Lauda (AUT)
8. J Stewart (GBR)
9. A Prost (FRA)
10. M Hakkinen (FIN)
11. Mario Andretti (USA)
12. G Hill (GBR)
13. L Hamilton (GBR)
14. N Mansell (GBR)
15. N Piquet Sr. (BRZ)
16. F Gonzalez (ARG)
17. D Coulthard (GBR)
18. J Brabham (AUS)
19. K Raikkonen (FIN)
20. J Jabouille (FRA)
21. J Button (GBR)
22. S Moss (GBR)
23. N Farina (ITA)
24. R Barrichello (BRZ)
25. D Gurney (USA)

woody2goody
31st May 2009, 03:58
And since I've only watched F1 since 1996, here's my top 25 who have competed since then:

1. M Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Hamilton
5. Coulthard
6. Raikkonen
7. Button
8. Barrichello
9. Massa
10. Montoya
11. R Schumacher
12. Fisichella
13. J Villeneuve
14. Trulli
15. Heidfeld
16. D Hill
17. de la Rosa
18. Panis
19. N Rosberg
20. Brundle
21. Vettel
22. Webber
23. Glock
24. Wurz
25. Kubica

race_director
31st May 2009, 13:03
Ignoring that last list ;) I think we should start this up again and try to get everyone to compile their lists.

Here's my 25 to add:

1. M Schumacher (GER)
2. J Fangio (ARG)
3. J Clark (GBR)
4. A Ascari (ITA)
5. F Alonso (ESP)
6. A Senna (BRZ)
7. N Lauda (AUT)
8. J Stewart (GBR)
9. A Prost (FRA)
10. M Hakkinen (FIN)
11. Mario Andretti (USA)
12. G Hill (GBR)
13. L Hamilton (GBR)
14. N Mansell (GBR)
15. N Piquet Sr. (BRZ)
16. F Gonzalez (ARG)
17. D Coulthard (GBR)
18. J Brabham (AUS)
19. K Raikkonen (FIN)
20. J Jabouille (FRA)
21. J Button (GBR)
22. S Moss (GBR)
23. N Farina (ITA)
24. R Barrichello (BRZ)
25. D Gurney (USA)

u forgot alex young :)

woody2goody
1st June 2009, 01:59
u forgot alex young :)

You forgot Jean-Denis Deletraz and Giovanni Lavaggi ;)

AdamBSA
18th May 2012, 02:36
My Top 10, 25 is a bit much :P

1 - Senna
2 - Schumacher
3 - Gilles Villeneuve
4 - Lauda
5 - Prost
6 - Alonso
7 - Piquet
8 - Stewart
9 - Raikonnen
10 - Fangio

F1boat
21st May 2012, 10:21
I am way, way too late, but still...
1 M Schumacher
2 Fangio
3 Prost
4 Senna
5 Mansell
6 Stewart
7 Clark
8 Fittipaldi
9 Brabham
10 Lauda
11 Alonso
12 Ascari
13 Hakkinen
14 Vettel
15 Piquet snr.
16 D Hill
17 G Hill
18 Mario Andretti
19 Raikkonen
20 Gilles Villeneuve
21 Surtees
22 Moss
23 Hunt
24 Button
25 Hamilton