"Tell me who your heroes are..." [Archive]

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Rani

17th July 2008, 16:33

Samir Kuntar was released yesterday from Israeli jail as part of a deal to return two Israeli soldiers who were kidnapped (and died) two years ago. A murderer of a 4 year old girl (which he killed by taking his gun and repeatedly hitting her in the head) among others, Kuntar was greeted with a red carpet and Lebanon declared a national day of holiday to celebrate their heroes' return.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1002659.html

As an Israeli I guess I am not objective on this subject, so I decided to see other people's opinion regarding the glorifying of this man. What do you think?
A bit about Kuntar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS6NyrexKlk

Daniel

17th July 2008, 18:01

An Israeli whinging about Arabs. Wow there's something new......

An a person who gets to see what Israel does to Lebanon and the Palestinians in the news I can see just why people think the guy is great. Your region is screwed up and your country has done a good deal of the screwing so don't expect normal things to happen and for bad deeds to get punished properly. Your country has made it's bed now it should sleep in it.

Don't worry anyway. Next week Israel will shell the place where he's living killing 10 people who had sod all to do with it and talk about how the end justifies the means. Boo-frickin-hoo.

Drew

18th July 2008, 00:07

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Rollo

18th July 2008, 02:29

"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brothers."-Genesis 16:12
Israel was warned about this... and yet on 37 occasions in Mosaic Law, the nation is told to treat sojourners and aliens with respect.

Since the nation of Israel refuses to do this, and since the nations around refuse to live in peace with Israel, this problem has no solution.

I blame Abraham :D

Rani

18th July 2008, 06:35

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
That's exactly the thing here. Could you envision a man of such deeds becoming a hero in any civilised nation?

Mark

18th July 2008, 08:49

We have *alleged* murderers serving in the UK as members of the Northern Ireland assembly, so anything is possible.

Drew

18th July 2008, 17:05

That's exactly the thing here. Could you envision a man of such deeds becoming a hero in any civilised nation?

You didn't understand, did you? I'm sure that is what the Lebanese are thinking about your soldiers, especially after the war in 2006...

Rani

18th July 2008, 17:29

You didn't understand, did you? I'm sure that is what the Lebanese are thinking about your soldiers, especially after the war in 2006...
But how could you compare a soldier acting against enemy operatives under orders to a guy who kills a man in front of his 4 year old girl only to kill her by repeatedly bashing her head with the butt of his rifle just after?

Drew

18th July 2008, 18:28

But how could you compare a soldier acting against enemy operatives under orders to a guy who kills a man in front of his 4 year old girl only to kill her by repeatedly bashing her head with the butt of his rifle just after?

It's all about your point of view. I'm sure in Lebanon it wasn't mentioned however in Israel it was. Just as much as information about Israeli soldiers might be left out of Israeli news, where as it might be heavily mentioned elsewhere (not that I have examples)

Daniel

18th July 2008, 18:31

That's exactly the thing here. Could you envision a man of such deeds becoming a hero in any civilised nation?

Israel isn't a civilised country though.....

Rani

18th July 2008, 22:12

Israel isn't a civilised country though.....
Yeah like you'd know with biased media being your only connection to the middle eastern conflict.
I bet the closest you've ever been to the region is by watching a BBC news bulletin...

Tomi

18th July 2008, 22:16

I have been to the region, but what's wrong with BBC?

Rani

18th July 2008, 22:18

It's all about your point of view. I'm sure in Lebanon it wasn't mentioned however in Israel it was. Just as much as information about Israeli soldiers might be left out of Israeli news, where as it might be heavily mentioned elsewhere (not that I have examples)
That's not correct. Every case of a soldier misusing his authority/force gets on the news. The soldier isn't called a hero but thrown to jail:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/902880.html
Mind you this border patrol soldier commited robbery and attacked a person, malicious crimes yet not offenses something I'd compare to cold hearted murder.

Daniel

18th July 2008, 23:48

Yeah like you'd know with biased media being your only connection to the middle eastern conflict.
I bet the closest you've ever been to the region is by watching a BBC news bulletin...

Hahhaahhahaahahah the BBC has the reputation of being one of the least biased news services.....

Israel and the Arab people in the region are like a bunch of kids. They don't want to fight but neither wants to be the first to say "**** this I can't be bothered with all this pointless killing, lets sort this out"

Drew

19th July 2008, 00:12

That's not correct. Every case of a soldier misusing his authority/force gets on the news. The soldier isn't called a hero but thrown to jail:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/902880.html
Mind you this border patrol soldier commited robbery and attacked a person, malicious crimes yet not offenses something I'd compare to cold hearted murder.

But to the Lebanese, every Israeli soldier is just as bad to them as every Hezbollah fighter and supporter is to Israel and Israelis. To you if an Israeli soldier kills a Lebanese person, the soldier was just doing his job, just using his authority but to the Lebanese the soldier is a murderer.

I know it's hard to understand, but that's the way it is, there are always 2 sides to the story.

Rani

19th July 2008, 00:26

Hahhaahhahaahahah the BBC has the reputation of being one of the least biased news services.....

Israel and the Arab people in the region are like a bunch of kids. They don't want to fight but neither wants to be the first to say "**** this I can't be bothered with all this pointless killing, lets sort this out"

"We are biased, admit the stars of BBC news..."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-411846/We-biased-admit-stars-BBC-News.html

"BBC confesses bias on religion, politics"
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52574

"BBC admits: We are biased on religion and politics"
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3318582,00.html

If this is your take on the Arab-Israeli conflict, either your knowkedge on the subject is very limited, or you just view the population in the region as dumb and primitive. Do you think that had Daniel become PM of Israel or Head of Hizbuallah this bloodshed would stop?

Rani

19th July 2008, 00:42

But to the Lebanese, every Israeli soldier is just as bad to them as every Hezbollah fighter and supporter is to Israel and Israelis. To you if an Israeli soldier kills a Lebanese person, the soldier was just doing his job, just using his authority but to the Lebanese the soldier is a murderer.

I know it's hard to understand, but that's the way it is, there are always 2 sides to the story.
Had Samir Kuntar been heralded as a hero for killing many SOLDIERS (or killing civilians by mistake - clearly not the case here) or doing his job while fighting and targetting military, I wouldn't have posted this, as I think it's legitimate.
If I (or any other ordinary Israeli) were to hear a soldier who murdered an innocent 4 year old was to be returned to Israel in an exchange for other captives, I would not celebrate it I'd hope he stays in prison to rot.

Do you see the difference? This is what I don't get, hatred so deep that killing a child is seen as a grand deed.

jso1985

19th July 2008, 01:09

agree on one thing, there's a huge difference between killing someone on a war and killing a 4-year old!
while in my view no-one is a hero in those situations, I understand the whole "war hero" stupidity but c'mon a hero for killing a 4-year old?

Breeze

19th July 2008, 03:10

But to the Lebanese, every Israeli soldier is just as bad to them as every Hezbollah fighter and supporter is to Israel and Israelis. To you if an Israeli soldier kills a Lebanese person, the soldier was just doing his job, just using his authority but to the Lebanese the soldier is a murderer.

I know it's hard to understand, but that's the way it is, there are always 2 sides to the story.

Drew, I never saw this coming from you. I expect this kind of moral relativism from some others on this forum, and in daily life, but I didn't expect it from you. I must say, I am very disappointed. That certain Lebanese and Palestinian people hold the view of this man as a hero speaks only to the evil and hatred in their hearts and minds. Regardless of any alleged wrongs commited by the Israelis, this man has commited actions which, were they done by an American soldier in Iraq, many here would be screaming bloody murder about. Being an apologist for those who esteem this man and his actions is the worst kind of rationalization, and I use the term in its perjorative sense.

Drew

19th July 2008, 23:34

I never stated my opinion in this, of course I don't think he's a hero, I think he's just scum, I can't see at all how you could kill a little child.

But my point was that love and hate run deep, so deep that you can forget key things...

SOD

20th July 2008, 15:29

SOD

20th July 2008, 15:39

Drew, I never saw this coming from you. I expect this kind of moral relativism from some others on this forum, and in daily life, but I didn't expect it from you. I must say, I am very disappointed. That certain Lebanese and Palestinian people hold the view of this man as a hero speaks only to the evil and hatred in their hearts and minds. Regardless of any alleged wrongs commited by the Israelis, this man has commited actions which, were they done by an American soldier in Iraq, many here would be screaming bloody murder about. Being an apologist for those who esteem this man and his actions is the worst kind of rationalization, and I use the term in its perjorative sense.

people are crying and screaming about this man! Didn't you read the thread, cupcake!

I'm so glad that you were born an angel.

SOD

20th July 2008, 15:42

We have *alleged* murderers serving in the UK as members of the Northern Ireland assembly, so anything is possible.

that is true of all countries in the ME.

Rani

20th July 2008, 19:06

my hero is Ehud Olmert, he knows how to get rich by fiddling the books. wonder if he pocketed any of the $5bn spent on the 2nd Lebanon war, a war fought in full knowlege that BOTH captured soldiers were already DEAD.

"President Shimon Peres denounced the red carpet treatment, drawing a comparison between the behavior of Israelis, mourning the two Israel Defense Forces soldiers whose bodies were returned after two years as part of the swap, and what he called Lebanese "dancing and drumming."

s tell me, did everyone in isreal stay indoors and mourn on the Thursday night, the actual day of the funeral? Was everyone from Goldwasser's university holding a vigil for him or were some of them out "dancing and drumming"?
As I said before I'm not too fond of Olmert myself, but the man is innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. I won't be too surprised or sad to see him leave office, but I think your jumping the gun.
As for your other remark, you do understand the lebanese were celebrating the RELEASE OF A GUILTY MURDERER of a little girl!?
The students of the Technion were not celebrating the fact we also returned dead bodies, they were celebrating things which don't have anything to do with politics. The institution is to blame for allowing the celebrations go on.
I think your thread is inciting. You just can't compare the lebanese celebrations to celebrations which had nothing to do with politics and just happened to take place on the same day of the funerals of the two dead soldiers.
When Ihmad Mughniyah was killed nobody here celebrated.
When Saddam Hussein was captured, nobody here celebrated.
When Ahmed Yassin was killed, nobody here celebrated.
When Fathi Shqaqi was killed, nobody here celebrated.
When those responsible for the Munich Olympics massacre in '76 were killed, nobody here celebrated.
I can promise you nobody here will celebrate when they get to Bin Laden or when Ahmedinejad will not be in power anymore. In this country, we do not celebrate the death of our enemies or make murderers of little girls heroes.

How absurd would I seem if I were to compare the lebanese homecoming of Samir Kuntar with you celebrating your birthday on a memorial day?
That's how absurd your remark was.

Tomi

20th July 2008, 20:22

my hero is not the israeli soldier who did shoot the blind folded guy, the video been on almst every news today.

Rani

20th July 2008, 23:47

my hero is not the israeli soldier who did shoot the blind folded guy, the video been on almst every news today.
He'll go to prison for that, and he deserves every month inside.
If he was Hizbuallah, they would give out candy and have him meeting dignitaries.
No wait, they only give the rockstar treatment to stone cold murderers.

Tomi

21st July 2008, 07:27

He'll go to prison for that, and he deserves every month inside.

Yes lets hope so, good that there was someone who got it on video.

SOD

21st July 2008, 15:04

How absurd would I seem if I were to compare the lebanese homecoming of Samir Kuntar with you celebrating your birthday on a memorial day?
That's how absurd your remark was.

I see that my point went over your head.

BTW, I condemn ALL child killers, think about it, eh! Be it terrorist or state sanctioned. that's where we differ.

TOgoFASTER

21st July 2008, 15:32

Thanks for that SOD. In this case both 'sides' have long lost any moral ground to stand on.

SOD

21st July 2008, 21:40

Thanks for that SOD. In this case both 'sides' have long lost any moral ground to stand on.

when you move to Mediggo ;) , you kinda get a feeling for all the bull that passes around.

yours,

the second coming in Christ,

SOD

SOD

21st July 2008, 21:50

Oh Jesus come, back, why dont you feedback on my napsack

TOgoFASTER

21st July 2008, 22:01

Crom!

SOD

21st July 2008, 22:07

Crom!

take your heathen false Gods and go elsewhere you farking heathen

SOD,
Misfit, Israel
July 2008

TOgoFASTER

21st July 2008, 23:19

Valhalla hangs in the balance there pal. :eek: :)

SOD

21st July 2008, 23:33

Crom, I've lived long enough to see reviled 'terrorists' become respected statesmen. I havn't seened the last of it either.

you know when someone is lying to you when they say "We dont talk with terrorists" :laugh: , that's a line for the dumbphucks in some sheltered federal enclave to enjoy and embrace.

SOD

22nd July 2008, 00:08

who wouldn't in the land of milk n honey tits

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1004128.html

not that I condone that beheviour in any way :)

TOgoFASTER

22nd July 2008, 00:55

you know when someone is lying to you when they say "We dont talk with terrorists" :laugh: , that's a line for the dumbphucks in some sheltered federal enclave to enjoy and embrace.

Arrrrr!

Rani

22nd July 2008, 21:07

Another 'hero' takes his JCB on a spin trying to kill some more 'infidel heathens'. Luckily this time a citizen and a druze (I really liked those I met in Israel, great people) border patrol officer take him down before he makes this a bigger disaster.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3571781,00.html

SOD

23rd July 2008, 11:42

Garry Walker

28th July 2008, 11:30

I can promise you nobody here will celebrate when they get to Bin Laden or when Ahmedinejad will not be in power anymore.

I will though, I will celebrate quite a lot if Bin Laden is captured (and hopefully killed).

As for the thread, the disease that is islam doesn`t surprise me in any way anymore and having a child-killer as a hero seems quite expected from muslims.

Rani

28th July 2008, 12:25

As for the thread, the disease that is islam doesn`t surprise me in any way anymore and having a child-killer as a hero seems quite expected from muslims.
I don't regard Islam as a disease. Its a religion just like any other. The problem is fundamentalism, be it Muslim, Jew, Christian or whatever it doesn't matter. Generalizing a whole population like that won't get you far in my opinion...

The instant classic

28th July 2008, 17:48

homer simpson :)

jso1985

29th July 2008, 23:45

I don't regard Islam as a disease. Its a religion just like any other. The problem is fundamentalism, be it Muslim, Jew, Christian or whatever it doesn't matter. Generalizing a whole population like that won't get you far in my opinion...

:up:

fundamentalism of any kind is the huge problem

Drew

30th July 2008, 00:10

Fundamentalism is a problem, apathy is a problem, middle of the road is a problem. Everythings a problem :p :

gloomyDAY

5th August 2008, 07:05

http://www.ineedmotivation.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/aahd064_8x10rev-dr-martin-luther-king-jr-posters.jpg

gloomyDAY

5th August 2008, 07:07

Oh cock! I didn't read the first post.

Well, sorry to mingle in this mess.
Good luck with the needless fighting.