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DezinerPaul
7th July 2008, 04:48
It is a fair question, is it time for Jenson Button to quit. Ralf Schumacher was ten time the driver of Jenson and English fans rubbished him daily, so why are they not calling for Button to get out of Dodge.
He is getting beat, by the "Old men" of F1 on a regular basis, his team mate drove a great race. Forget about blaming everything on Honda, if Jenson is not seeing off his team mates, then he is failing, lets face it "he is supposed to be the Great White Hope"
Is it time for Jenso to quit? It is indeed, the man is all mouth, he has not and I feel he cannot deliver.

jso1985
7th July 2008, 05:01
Barrichello is doing better than him, and most people is waiting Honda to kick him out of the team.
So basically Button should be demoted to chef assistant of the Force India team...

seriously, he had(kinda) his time, and like with Fisichella, I doubt any big team will employ them ever again, so if they just like to be in F1, well that's ok let them stay, but if they're hoping they can still win.... well I guess it's dream over and game over

cy bais
7th July 2008, 05:33
i'll chime in and say button's done. :)

DezinerPaul
7th July 2008, 05:55
I see some real similarities between Jenson and Hamilton, they are both quick, however they both run off at the mouth. Is that the fault of the English media, who are at best whores, the public expecting to much, or the driver letting the fame go to their head? Whatever the problem, it seems to be more prevalent amongst English racers. That is not a racist remark, it is an honest observation, regarding English racers.

Tumbo
7th July 2008, 09:54
Button has been a real disappointment the last two yrs, yes the car has been a shocker but development wise Honda seem to have gone completely backwards (slightly confusing given where they were at in 2005/6??) Rubens did a brilliant job last night showing the car can show pace and achieve results (albeit in the wet).....might be time for Button to move on from Honda, he's not up to the pace of Massa, Hami, Kimi, Kubi, Heidy, Fernando atm maybe he's lost motivation and a change of team might be in order, though which team would have him other than some of the backmarkers and lower tier ones like Torro Rosso I don't know?

Ranger
7th July 2008, 10:29
If I was earning some $10 million per year in my twenties and was still offered that job, I would keep doing it. Jenson has no reason to quit.

Although he has been extremely disappointing so far this year.

BDunnell
7th July 2008, 10:49
I see some real similarities between Jenson and Hamilton, they are both quick, however they both run off at the mouth. Is that the fault of the English media, who are at best whores, the public expecting to much, or the driver letting the fame go to their head? Whatever the problem, it seems to be more prevalent amongst English racers. That is not a racist remark, it is an honest observation, regarding English racers.

I think this is absolute nonsense, personally.

ioan
7th July 2008, 11:34
He's the most disappointing driver on the grid, that's sure.

MrJan
7th July 2008, 11:44
He's got about as much right as any of the up and coming drivers. It's obvious that the car isn't brilliant and I still think that he is a quick driver.

ioan
7th July 2008, 12:01
He's got about as much right as any of the up and coming drivers.

You must be right, he's only been in F1 for what? 8+ years!

MrJan
7th July 2008, 12:24
You must be right, he's only been in F1 for what? 8+ years!

But unless there is a faster driver he still deserves to be there. Or should he be chucked out because he's English?

GridGirl
7th July 2008, 14:10
Why would you quit when you are currently something like the 3rd highest paid driver in F1, that is unless you've lost your desire to race? Sounds illogical... you'd at least wait till your contract runs out. :p

ioan
7th July 2008, 14:23
But unless there is a faster driver he still deserves to be there. Or should he be chucked out because he's English?

There are faster drivers out there. Sato for instance would certainly do better, in fact he was doing better driving an outdated Honda called Super Aguri! :p :

Ranger
7th July 2008, 14:32
There are faster drivers out there. Sato for instance would certainly do better, in fact he was doing better driving an outdated Honda called Super Aguri! :p :

This point keeps coming up from you, and it is null every time!

Maybe because of that logic, Sato is better than Barrichello as Sato scored 3 points in 2007 and Barrichello scored zero. That seat-hogger that Baz is, he's got nothing on Sato. ;)

Seriously, Button smashed Sato 85-34 and 37-1 when they both had the same car.

End of.

jens
7th July 2008, 14:33
Funny, how situations change. I remember at the end of 2006 (and even 2007) Button was rated as a Top4 driver by many and was expected to be a title contender in 2007. His 'era' was expected to just begin.

Rosberg and Button have been the disappointments for me this year, both struggling against their team-mates. If a highly rated driver gets beaten by not-so-highly rated driver, then it has to be suggested he's overrated? But in some way I still have belief in them, which is based on previous seasons and the promise shown back then. However, Jenson's reputation as one of the best wet weather drivers has got no justification recently.

Jenson is still only 28, so I don't expect him to be thinking about retiring 'voluntarily' already.

N. Jones
7th July 2008, 16:14
It is a fair question, is it time for Jenson Button to quit. Ralf Schumacher was ten time the driver of Jenson and English fans rubbished him daily, so why are they not calling for Button to get out of Dodge.
He is getting beat, by the "Old men" of F1 on a regular basis, his team mate drove a great race. Forget about blaming everything on Honda, if Jenson is not seeing off his team mates, then he is failing, lets face it "he is supposed to be the Great White Hope"
Is it time for Jenso to quit? It is indeed, the man is all mouth, he has not and I feel he cannot deliver.

The But-ton can drive a good car very well and a bad car very badly but to compare him to the morose, got-by-on-his-name-Ralf is a true insult. :)

Sleeper
7th July 2008, 16:24
Button hasnt had a good time of it lately with a few mistakes coming in, and his qualifying speed doent seem to good at the moment. But, lets not forget that he passed Rubens and pulled about 6 seconds on him before the first stops at Silverstone (still yet to find out why he droped behind Rubens after the stops) and was no more than 3 seconds behind Rubens when he went off on standing water at Bridge. In fact, in the races France and Canada are the only two were I can say that Rubens was faster (Button was quicker early on at Monaco before damaging his car against Heidfeldt). Past it he is not.

DezinerPaul
7th July 2008, 16:32
The But-ton can drive a good car very well and a bad car very badly but to compare him to the morose, got-by-on-his-name-Ralf is a true insult. :)

All races
Jenson Button Ralf Schumacher
136 Races 180
1 0% Victory 3% 6
3 2% Pole 3% 6
15 11% Podium 15% 27
0 0% FastesLaps 4% 8
60 44% FinInPoints 50% 90
229.00 16% Points 18% 329.0

gravity
7th July 2008, 16:47
Again... partial stats. Didn't someone here already say that stats are only useful when all variables are taken into account?

jens
7th July 2008, 19:33
Whatever the stats are, it can be quite confidently said that Ralf is/was quite an underrated driver largely due to the reason that the dislike of folks seems to cloud their judgement.

Comparing Jenson and Ralf is no insult to either of them. Both are/were quite highly paid drivers, both could go well in a good car, both could have been struggling/unmotivated if things weren't going their way due to whatever reasons. In certain phases of their careers both have been hailed as future champions, not quite so in later phases of their careers. Oh, how many similarities. ;)

DezinerPaul
8th July 2008, 05:06
Again... partial stats. Didn't someone here already say that stats are only useful when all variables are taken into account?


Those are all of the stats in their raw, untouched form, they are reality! They are the objective numbers that have not been altered to make a point.

Hawkmoon
8th July 2008, 05:26
So DezinerPaul who, exactly, should be in F1? You've started threads criticising Hamilton, Webber and now Button. Just what exactly does a driver have to do to warrant a drive in your view?

DezinerPaul
8th July 2008, 06:04
So DezinerPaul who, exactly, should be in F1? You've started threads criticising Hamilton, Webber and now Button. Just what exactly does a driver have to do to warrant a drive in your view?


Not against anybody getting a good shot, however once that has run it's course, it's time for new blood. In other words, many on the grid, are also run's and need to go!

Robinho
8th July 2008, 14:21
i like Button, and think he's got enough to compete for wins if he has a decent car - in fact his past form indicates this and i don't think he's driving much differently now than when he had a good car.

he's shown plenty in the past (for me) to indicate he's more than worth a spot on the grid, pretty much every year, except maybe the year in the shocking Renault with Fisi, altho i recall a couple of decent drives towards the end of that year even.

Button, like Webber, i feel has a good few years ahead of him and deserves a chance in a rcae winning car, however there are probably more drivers in that bracket than cars, so some will always end up never having that chance, but Button IMO is certainly good enough to warrant a place in the sport.

as for this weekend, he was just behind or just ahead of Rubens for the majoirty of the race, bith having carved their way into the points, and given the conditions and the number of mistakes being made, i wouldn't beat up on Jenson too much for failing to finish after an excursion

N. Jones
8th July 2008, 15:59
All races
Jenson Button Ralf Schumacher
136 Races 180
1 0% Victory 3% 6
3 2% Pole 3% 6
15 11% Podium 15% 27
0 0% FastesLaps 4% 8
60 44% FinInPoints 50% 90
229.00 16% Points 18% 329.0

Jensen Button - 1 competitive car
Ralf Schumacher - 4 competitive cars.

Want me to elaborate? Jenson got everyone excited in 2004 when the Honda was the only car to consistently finish on the podium. Ralfy Baby finish either 4th or 5th in the driver standings in a Williams chassis from 2001-2003. I firmly believe that if Williams had some more consistent drivers than the Montoya/Ralfy combo they might have won one or two drivers titles and at least one constructors (2003). IF, IF, IF I know but the car was competitive in those years. During that same period Button was in an uncompetitive Renault and the uncompetitive BAR-Honda. His fortunes might have been different had he stayed at Williams.

This brings me to the belief that Jensen > Ralf.

Knock-on
8th July 2008, 16:04
i like Button, and think he's got enough to compete for wins if he has a decent car - in fact his past form indicates this and i don't think he's driving much differently now than when he had a good car.

he's shown plenty in the past (for me) to indicate he's more than worth a spot on the grid, pretty much every year, except maybe the year in the shocking Renault with Fisi, altho i recall a couple of decent drives towards the end of that year even.

Button, like Webber, i feel has a good few years ahead of him and deserves a chance in a rcae winning car, however there are probably more drivers in that bracket than cars, so some will always end up never having that chance, but Button IMO is certainly good enough to warrant a place in the sport.

as for this weekend, he was just behind or just ahead of Rubens for the majoirty of the race, bith having carved their way into the points, and given the conditions and the number of mistakes being made, i wouldn't beat up on Jenson too much for failing to finish after an excursion


I haven't got too much involved in this thread because it just seemed another Trolling opportunity for some.

Button still has my support. He drove a reasonable race last weekend and got infront of Rubins but the Honda is still far from capable of achieving apart from by a mini miracle.

What did dissapont me was his comments before the GP where he said he was not fighting for a podium at his home GP. If he loses that drive, he will never recover and I have faith that Ross and the team are going to move that car forward ove the next 2 years.

This podium for Rubins is the shot in the arm that Honda needed. It will raise flagging spirits and give more power to Brawn's fist to drive through change.

Don't write him off yet ;)

N. Jones
8th July 2008, 16:12
I haven't got too much involved in this thread because it just seemed another Trolling opportunity for some.

Yes, I admit that my initial response didn't answer the question because I dislike Ralf. I hate it when others do it but here I am doing the same thing! I apologize for that and will take the time to answer the original thread question:

I think Jensen has the talent to succeed in a competitive car. I don't think he can take a junker and put it on the podium. He should stick around.

Breeze
8th July 2008, 16:52
Talent and skill don't go away at age 28, so Jenson still has it. What he seems to be lacking is that intangible "desire" to excell. He needs to rekindle that fire within and get that piss poor Honda down the road with all possible haste. Nobody can get him motivated but himself, though, so he may remain a dilettante for the rest of his career.

Sleeper
8th July 2008, 17:11
I haven't got too much involved in this thread because it just seemed another Trolling opportunity for some.

Button still has my support. He drove a reasonable race last weekend and got infront of Rubins but the Honda is still far from capable of achieving apart from by a mini miracle.

What did dissapont me was his comments before the GP where he said he was not fighting for a podium at his home GP. If he loses that drive, he will never recover and I have faith that Ross and the team are going to move that car forward ove the next 2 years.

This podium for Rubins is the shot in the arm that Honda needed. It will raise flagging spirits and give more power to Brawn's fist to drive through change.

Don't write him off yet ;)
Saying he wont fight for a podium is just being realistic, because lets be honest, they were only fighting for points because it was wet and Barichello got the podium because Honda were the only team to change to full wets.

As for Brawn, he's made the changes but they are doing next to nothing to develop this years car now (thus the reason why its gone from fighting to get into Q3 to struggling to get out of Q1), they're focused on getting next years car right.

Roamy
8th July 2008, 17:44
Well I am not quite ready to write off Button. I do not think he is very talented at car development and I do agree he can drive a good car fast. Hell he drove the JV developed car right up front. RB is a journyman driver. He has skin like a aligator. Jensen is no longer the "darling" of the team and that coupled with the fact they haven't developed shi!t since ousting JV points to very bad management. Clear and JV tore that car apart to develop it and the of course JV was thrown under the bus. I would imagine that due to his days with stewart and ferrari that RB is better at development than Button and I suspect the team is listen quite a bit to him. This will get sorted out a bit next year and Brawn will figure out a way to go.

The next thing is: A fast driver in a sh!t car will wear you down faster than the 'alligator" that has been whipped all his life. The higher the ability the greater the letdown when the people around you can't deliver. Honda has screwed this team since day one. Just about like toyota. I do expect Honda to catch and pass toyota next year. Honda needs a good development driver while pumping some life back into Button. At the end of the day Button will prove faster than RB. He will just have to suffer out the year. I would have liked to see Ant stay instead of RB. I think Ant is the better at development. Sato to me is just Japan's answer to Josh Verstappen.

Button needs to up his game which I think he is capable of. A good seat will open up and I think if Honda lets him go he will have one more opportunity and a good drive.

Knock-on
8th July 2008, 17:57
Agree with most of that Uncs.

jens
8th July 2008, 22:21
Having read the comments of Button deserving a top ride, then this made me thinking: his contract is up after this season. In order to get into a better team, he should be seriously impressing. But he is not doing so and is struggling. The car may be uncompetitive and he may feel unmotivated, but has Jenson really lost the hope of getting into a better team? All in all it seems like Button's destiny is to stay at Honda for the rest of his competitive career.


I do expect Honda to catch and pass toyota next year

This has been said every year, but for some reason doesn't seem to be happening. :p :

fabricator/61
8th July 2008, 22:21
I think he should call it a day,he has competed in over 100 GP's and has won 1, Lewis has competed in under 30 and won 7. Jackie Stewart competed in 93 GP's and won 3 World titles, so Jenson quit now.

FIA
8th July 2008, 22:26
JENSON IS THE BEST! Backmarker driver at the moment. He can still win, if he got a competitive car, he is just in it for money by keep signing contracts to Energy Efficient Racing (I mean Honda).

keysersoze
8th July 2008, 22:43
So DezinerPaul who, exactly, should be in F1? You've started threads criticising Hamilton, Webber and now Button. Just what exactly does a driver have to do to warrant a drive in your view?

Exactly, hawkmoon. So I guess by DezinerPaul's definition he ban himself from the forum--he hasn't produced a decent, cogent thread yet. :p

Roamy
9th July 2008, 02:26
This has been said every year, but for some reason doesn't seem to be happening. :p :[/QUOTE]

yea but now brawn has arrived

Jimbo Mc
11th July 2008, 22:45
I'm a button fan but can see that he is under performing at the mo. Would be wrong for him to quit though as its a beautiful sight to see his driving when the car handles properly. Theres only so far you can get in a honda lawnmower!

Valve Bounce
12th July 2008, 01:20
I always felt that a lot of the bunsen's pace came from ant's relentless testing and valuable feedback, especially when F1 had the third driver testing during first day practice. I also felt that ant's help was only directed at bunsen and not Sato. To compound his frustration, Sato tried so many kamikaze moves in his final year at Honda that he managed to score only 1 point - and he is better than that. So, comparing bunsen's achievements against Sato is misleading.

Bunsen will never win the WDC. The tragedy of bunsen was that the year Honda had that great car with the spare fuel tank, he was touted by nearly every Pom, including the likes of Stewart, as the next Pommy WDC. He won one race against SchM and he became the Great White Hope. Then development of the car went in the wrong direction and bunsen couldn't hack driving a dog of a car, just like when he was at Benneton.

He gives me the impression that he just likes sitting in that car on race day so that he can keep collecting that fat payroll. After his contract shenanigans with Frank Williams, which top team would bother with him when there are other gifted drivers around pedaling middle of the field cars? Put it this way, if he offered to drive for Ferrari for nothing, they would not even bother to give him an interview.

DezinerPaul
12th July 2008, 04:54
It is amazing how the English defend Jenson, thay are as bad as the Australians defending Webber (even though Webber has shown a great deal more)Jenson Button, left one team for more money, the move failed and now it is time to pay the piper. Bring in some young blood that will give 100%, which is a lot more than Jenson is giving!

Sleeper
13th July 2008, 14:53
Well I am not quite ready to write off Button. I do not think he is very talented at car development and I do agree he can drive a good car fast. Hell he drove the JV developed car right up front. RB is a journyman driver. He has skin like a aligator. Jensen is no longer the "darling" of the team and that coupled with the fact they haven't developed shi!t since ousting JV points to very bad management. Clear and JV tore that car apart to develop it and the of course JV was thrown under the bus. I would imagine that due to his days with stewart and ferrari that RB is better at development than Button and I suspect the team is listen quite a bit to him. This will get sorted out a bit next year and Brawn will figure out a way to go.

The next thing is: A fast driver in a sh!t car will wear you down faster than the 'alligator" that has been whipped all his life. The higher the ability the greater the letdown when the people around you can't deliver. Honda has screwed this team since day one. Just about like toyota. I do expect Honda to catch and pass toyota next year. Honda needs a good development driver while pumping some life back into Button. At the end of the day Button will prove faster than RB. He will just have to suffer out the year. I would have liked to see Ant stay instead of RB. I think Ant is the better at development. Sato to me is just Japan's answer to Josh Verstappen.

Button needs to up his game which I think he is capable of. A good seat will open up and I think if Honda lets him go he will have one more opportunity and a good drive.
From what I've heard, WIlliams and Sauber/BMW were anything but impressed with JV's development skill because he sets the car up in such an unusual way, with very hard front suspension and soft rear. The BAR/Honda's only started to come good when Jenson and Geof Willis joined the team, and Willis was doing to much in his role and led the team down a blind ally in earo development that only now are they starting to get out of it, 4 years later. Only once has the team come up with a consistent car, in 2004, and thats down to poor leadership in the technical department, something thats now been solved. As for the test driver, they now have Wurz to do that, and he is definitely a good development driver.

PiotrB
16th July 2008, 12:31
First of all look at this car control:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jyR7_vdI04

Massa spun two times in that corner but Jenson menaged to recover from that even without drastically losing speed.

Barrichello do a awesome job at Silverstone but let's not forget that this race was a lottery. Kubica is good in wet (Monaco 2008) but he also end the race in gravel because in some places there was too much water on the track. And look at the comparison of times between Button - Barrichello when they drove on full wets after second pit stops:


BUT BAR

Lap 37 1'38.476 1'41.246
Lap 38 1'37.424 1'42.889
Lap 39 Jenson ends race 1'42.502

So I think that Jenson is a very good driver. He just risk too much (because car is a crap) at Silverstone. If he'll finish the race he'll probably be 3rd. Anyway in last test at Hockenheim Jenson did a incredible lap (1 tenth slower than Massa in Ferrari) in car that he have so I think that he'll do well in next race. Fingers crossed.

jso1985
19th July 2008, 04:45
and he and Rubens stay for 2009 apperently


http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/166391-0/honda_to_retain_f1_driver_line-up_in_2009.html

certainly Brown wants some continuity on their work and that's always positive

gloomyDAY
19th July 2008, 07:08
2009 full steam ahead!

Valve Bounce
19th July 2008, 11:42
and he and Rubens stay for 2009 apperently


http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/166391-0/honda_to_retain_f1_driver_line-up_in_2009.html

certainly Brown wants some continuity on their work and that's always positive

Is this the guy who kicked three goals against us in the last quarter? :( :bigcry:

"Nathan Brown was outstanding for Richmond with three goals in the last quarter to go with his 26 touches with Nathan Foley (31 possessions) and Shane Tuck (27) was also important."

Tallgeese
19th July 2008, 12:52
Button has potential but it may turn to 'had' if he doesn't pick up his game soon & that really depends on how fast Honda can make a good car. Given the 2009 regulations with 'dramatic changes' expected, I think that 2008 is more or less a write-off year for most teams with the real action being expected in 2009 so Button's performance then will be more worthy of observation than for the rest of this season. Should be interesting to see what Braun will unveil for Honda next year, I think he'll come up with something fast, & probably recapture Button's BAR days when he actually came third in the WDC!

Dave B
19th July 2008, 14:00
and he and Rubens stay for 2009 apperently


http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/166391-0/honda_to_retain_f1_driver_line-up_in_2009.html

certainly Brown wants some continuity on their work and that's always positive

Nick Fry just told ITV that there's "no reason" why they wouldn't keep the same driver lineup but it's not official yet.

VkmSpouge
19th July 2008, 15:49
Honda would be quite wise to keep Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello. Both still have plenty to offer to the team in terms of speed and scoring points.

Roamy
19th July 2008, 15:58
I think the car will probably go back Jensen's way. They would probably not be well advised to change drivers at this point unless they could get a top driver and developer.

Valve Bounce
20th July 2008, 00:04
I think the car will probably go back Jensen's way. They would probably not be well advised to change drivers at this point unless they could get a top driver and developer.

Changing riders in midstream while the horse is just about dead won't solve anything.

Dave B
20th July 2008, 10:43
Ross Brawn has backtracked on his earlier stance that the driver line up is confirmed:


Ross Brawn has denied Honda Racing are certain to retain both Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello for the 2009 season.

The Briton told the official Formula One website on Friday that they would keep both drivers for another year, leading to the reports that the duo had already signed new contracts.

But on Saturday Brawn backtracked from his comments and made it clear that Honda have not made any decision about their line-up yet.

"Well, nothing is certain," Brawn told autosport.com. "There is a possibility about where we will end, but there is nothing definitive at the moment.
Full story: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69303

gloomyDAY
4th August 2008, 02:32
Did Honda make a mistake by retaining Button?

I'm not sure what to make of the decision.
When this (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61440) article came out I wholeheartedly agreed with Nigel.

Valve Bounce
4th August 2008, 08:57
Should I start a new thread about the rumour (which I instigated) that Honda have already signed Fernando for a two year deal?

ArrowsFA1
4th August 2008, 08:58
When this (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61440) article came out I wholeheartedly agreed with Nigel.

"Jenson should have won more races, he has under-performed and that is down to him."
Mmmmm...Who else has won a race for BAR/Honda? Who else has come close? I think it's more a case of the team under-performing rather than the driver.

Garry Walker
4th August 2008, 12:15
The But-ton can drive a good car very well and a bad car very badly but to compare him to the morose, got-by-on-his-name-Ralf is a true insult. :)

When they had equal cars, Ralf dominated over jenson easily.

Hazell B
4th August 2008, 14:33
When they had equal cars, Ralf dominated over jenson easily.

Even though I really, really dislike Button, I'd say that was as much bad luck as anything.

Anyway, if a driver's being compared to somebody as low down the ability ladder, it clearly is time to either get a better car or just get a better job.

Don't think he'll be offered a better car though :p :

Sleeper
4th August 2008, 18:15
When they had equal cars, Ralf dominated over jenson easily.
You just comapred a regular podium finisher in his fourth year to a debutant streight out of one year of F3!
As I recall they were all but equal at the end of the year as well.

grantb4
5th August 2008, 01:06
I think they should get rid of one of them. Probably Rubens.

jens
6th August 2008, 12:09
Back in 2004 and 2006 Jenson was rated as a future WDC. Now he is rated as a slump. To rate him more accurately, I'd like to see him against a real top ace and from that perspective Alonso would be a good choice.

What we know that if the car is quick, then Button is consistent and collects consistent points. If the car is not-so-good, he's more inconsistent and more restless. When he is consistent in a good car and beats his team-mate (like it was in BAR), then it all seems okay, but I think the main question remained that how quick that consistent is. To see him being paired with a driver, whose great pace is well-known, would get us closer to an answer. As I have noticed, there tend to be all kinds of opinions about 2004 BAR's pace too. Opinions vary from "almost the best car on the grid" to "just narrowly second best far behind Ferrari". Well, how good the car was then? How can we find the answer?

Valve Bounce
6th August 2008, 13:35
Mmmmm...Who else has won a race for BAR/Honda? Who else has come close? I think it's more a case of the team under-performing rather than the driver.

Very true. I'm positive that if bunsen was given the Ferrari drive, he'd leave Kimi for dust.

8th August 2008, 12:10
Very true. I'm positive that if bunsen was given the Ferrari drive, he'd leave Kimi for dust.

I agree. How do you think he would go if given the McLaren?

Knock-on
8th August 2008, 12:27
Personally, I would love to see an Alonso and Jenson partnership.

I believe that Alonso is a top drawer driver and if Button lives with him, it would speak volumes.

ioan
8th August 2008, 12:31
When they had equal cars, Ralf dominated over jenson easily.

Yeah but Button is British while Ralf is German and also the brother of the "beloved" Michael Schumacher! ;)

ioan
8th August 2008, 12:33
Personally, I would love to see an Alonso and Jenson partnership.

I believe that Alonso is a top drawer driver and if Button lives with him, it would speak volumes.

Yeah I think that would be Jenson's last chance to look like anything close to a real race driver.
However I have my doubts that he can equal Alonso in the same car, and man I'm no fan of the Spaniard.

Knock-on
8th August 2008, 12:34
Yeah I think that would be Jenson's last chance to look like anything close to a real race driver.
However I have my doubts that he can equal Alonso in the same car, and man I'm no fan of the Spaniard.

Oh, I think he's a bit of a as well but have huge respect for his ability as a driver.

harsha
9th August 2008, 10:31
Jensen should really have moved to Williams when he had the chance...

yes he's won the one GP with Honda but apart from one season,he never really had a decent car to compete...

Sleeper
9th August 2008, 16:32
Jensen should really have moved to Williams when he had the chance...

yes he's won the one GP with Honda but apart from one season,he never really had a decent car to compete...
Wouldnt have got it at Williams either since their partnership with BMW imploded (you could say before that as well).

markabilly
9th August 2008, 18:08
Time to quit? hell bells, when did he ever really get started..............

bowers
9th August 2008, 20:43
I think it's been over for a while. Even when he won that race in Hungary it was a complete one off, put down to luck and circumstance rather than skill and engineering. When a relative chump like Rubens is wiping the floor with you, and raising more eyebrows I think it's time to get out before you embarass yourself further (but the money probably helps keep him interested). The car has been horrible for a while and the common thread in that is that Jenson is by all accounts the primary driver of the team. He's been there for a while and the car has never really improved. Of course, vehicle development isn't just purely down to the driver, but he is the person who has to relay the important information to the engineers and obviously, he's horrible at it (because Honda have friekin great engineers). How he's been kept around at that team is quite a shock in and of itself.

gloomyDAY
9th August 2008, 23:21
I think it's been over for a while. Even when he won that race in Hungary it was a complete one off, put down to luck and circumstance rather than skill and engineering. When a relative chump like Rubens is wiping the floor with you, and raising more eyebrows I think it's time to get out before you embarass yourself further (but the money probably helps keep him interested). The car has been horrible for a while and the common thread in that is that Jenson is by all accounts the primary driver of the team. He's been there for a while and the car has never really improved. Of course, vehicle development isn't just purely down to the driver, but he is the person who has to relay the important information to the engineers and obviously, he's horrible at it (because Honda have friekin great engineers). How he's been kept around at that team is quite a shock in and of itself.I think you're absolutely correct on both of those points that I highlighted. Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of your post (except for calling Rubens a chump), but those two points are absolutely key as to why Jenson needs to be sacked.

1) The partying and high times is probably keeping Bunsen's head lit somewhere else besides the racetrack.

2) Honda have NOT progressed with Jenson on the team. At some point in time a team needs to realize that their operation has more potential than the piece of carbon between the steering wheel and seat.

f1rocks
10th August 2008, 04:40
Yeah I think that would be Jenson's last chance to look like anything close to a real race driver.
However I have my doubts that he can equal Alonso in the same car, and man I'm no fan of the Spaniard.

Alonso is way too overated and also a 2 time lucky WDC. I think Button will make Alonso eat humble pie at Honda...Seriously Alonso is just your regular F1 driver with a lot of experience. In 2005 he was cruising to the WDC since Kimi's engine kept blowing up. In 2006 MS engine let go at Japan or else he would have lost again. In 2007 he lost to a rookie. Whenever the going gets tough he chokes and starts to whine against his team. And this year look how ordinary he is looking with all these mistakes at Renault.

I think Button could have also won the WDC at Renault in 2005 and 2006 under the same circumstances and with the same good luck.

Valve Bounce
10th August 2008, 10:50
Alonso is way too overated and also a 2 time lucky WDC. I think Button will make Alonso eat humble pie at Honda...Seriously Alonso is just your regular F1 driver with a lot of experience. In 2005 he was cruising to the WDC since Kimi's engine kept blowing up. In 2006 MS engine let go at Japan or else he would have lost again. In 2007 he lost to a rookie. Whenever the going gets tough he chokes and starts to whine against his team. And this year look how ordinary he is looking with all these mistakes at Renault.

I think Button could have also won the WDC at Renault in 2005 and 2006 under the same circumstances and with the same good luck.

Absolutely, bunsen will wipe the floor with him, and if Lewis tried to join Honda, bunsen will wipe the floor with him also. Bunsen should have been a triple WDC by now if he had been given a half decent car to drive.





Just don't quote me, please. :(

markabilly
10th August 2008, 12:46
or he could go play Joker in the next Batman sequal, as give him some clown makeup he might fit in.....he might not even need the clown makeup...

gloomyDAY
11th August 2008, 01:10
Alonso is way too overated and also a 2 time lucky WDC. I think Button will make Alonso eat humble pie at Honda...Seriously Alonso is just your regular F1 driver with a lot of experience. In 2005 he was cruising to the WDC since Kimi's engine kept blowing up. In 2006 MS engine let go at Japan or else he would have lost again. In 2007 he lost to a rookie. Whenever the going gets tough he chokes and starts to whine against his team. And this year look how ordinary he is looking with all these mistakes at Renault.

I think Button could have also won the WDC at Renault in 2005 and 2006 under the same circumstances and with the same good luck.http://teenymanolo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/puzzled_by_smashinggirl.jpg

I can't believe I'm reading this crap!

f1rocks
11th August 2008, 05:14
http://teenymanolo.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/puzzled_by_smashinggirl.jpg

I can't believe I'm reading this crap!

I really like your picture in the previous post. :d good going...And it also reminds me a bit about Alonso....

Valve Bounce
11th August 2008, 06:09
I really like your picture in the previous post. :d good going...And it also reminds me a bit about Alonso....

At risk of incurring a warning if taken the wrong way, may I politely suggest you visit an optometrist just so you don't get run over crossing the road. ;)

Garry Walker
11th August 2008, 15:11
I really like your picture in the previous post. :d good going...And it also reminds me a bit about Alonso....

It would remind me Alonso more if there were tears in the eyes.

jens
11th August 2008, 17:02
We may discuss whether Button is a top material or not, but quitting F1 is too harsh IMO. He's not that bad!

About Alonso and Button. When the car is good, both have been very consistent and scored important points.
But there seems one vital difference between Alonso and Button, which we have witnessed this season. After last year's events I have gained respect for Alonso this year. I'm really enjoying, how he is pushing on the limit and giving the maximum of him. Even if he is making mistakes, then it's at least visible, where are the limits of this car.

This is the difference between their reactions to uncompetitive machinery. Both of them are frustrated, of course, but frustration has a different realization. While Alonso gives his all and drives with genuine anger, then Button's performs as unimpressively as his machinery. But from the brighter side - Button has outqualified Barrichello in the last two GP weekends, so he may not be that "lost" at all.

555-04Q2
11th August 2008, 17:06
Comparing Button to Alonso is like comparing a mule with a mouse. Button is not even in the same chapter as Alonso...sorry knockie :p :

Valve Bounce
12th August 2008, 00:22
Comparing Button to Alonso is like comparing a mule with a mouse. Button is not even in the same chapter as Alonso...sorry knockie :p :

..................or Tupperware with Meissen. :rolleyes:

Knock-on
12th August 2008, 11:44
Comparing Button to Alonso is like comparing a mule with a mouse. Button is not even in the same chapter as Alonso...sorry knockie :p :


Well, I really must disagree. I think you are letting your bias cloud your judgement a bit.

Although fundementally you may have a point, I really don't think it will be as one sided as you claim.

Nope, I think Alonso may surprise you and stay in touch but to compare the poor Spaniard to a Mouse is a step too far in my opinion.

However, I like your way of thinking.

:D