lee and rice must be dumped from the International Feed ASAP!

[BobGarage]

The most incompitant comentators I have ever heard. Waldo claims they are nice men, and I don't doubt it, but they are useless at covering the race.

There is constant talk about who they had breakfast with. I don't give a sh!t, tell me whats going on in the race!

Then a few moments ago... "Oriol Servias car co owned by Kevin Kalkhoven and Scott Pruett... oh wait no... I've forgoten... it'll come to me in a minute..... he won a race at michigan once.... erm.... I'm geting old". For f*ck sake! I was screaming jimmy Vasser at my TV!

Then moments after telling us Jay Howard had dropped out of the race with mechanical problems Justin Wilson pulls over "well Justins the only car not running at the moment". No he's not you useless pair!!! You just told me Jay Howard was out!

come on, please replace these pair. they really don't have a clue what they are doing!

[jarrambide]

But thanks to them now I know that a course race is different than an oval race, ;)

[Lousada]

They are not really 'with it' this race, for sure.

[Jon411]

I've turned the race off, they are boring to the point of sending me to sleep as they sound so uninterested and as if they have no idea what is going on.

I have only watched St Petersburg and Long Beach so far this year, but the commentary has been rubbish, I preferred the Champcar presenting team from last year on Eurosport, the level of commentary and conversation was far more interesting than this bunch are.

You'll have to excuse me as I have no idea who is who on that presenting team but the guy in the pits has just stated the obvious by standing next to Justin Wilson and then announcing something like "Justin Wilson doesn't have to worry about a fuel strategy today as he's standing next to me" - Well of course he doesn't seeing as he is out of the race.

Really really poor presenting

[beachbum]

I feel sorry for those of you stuck with the international feed, but the US TV team isn't much better. Do like more people are doing. Fire up the computer and watch the live Indycar.com video feed. That gives the radio coverage, which has its faults but is overall less "commercial" and more informative. I usually have the computer going with the TV on and muted. Works pretty good, especially as you can have timing and scoring going too.

[NickFalzone]

I'm sorry to hear that the international feed announcing sucked, because I have to say this is one of the few IRL races in which the ABC/ESPN team was about as bad as the race. To put it in other terms, the race was so dull and full of overly long yellows that Marty and Scott and the pit team came out OK in my opinion.

The real lowpoints of today were, again, the endless caution laps, and secondly the camerawork. I really hate the long zoom lens tracking shots showing closeups of cars against the scenery. ABC editing and camerawork do a very poor job of showing the actual competition. Watching Speed F1 coverage I can see the proper way to do it, and today's WGI coverage was awful in comparison. They even do these super-closeups on the ovals, which makes even less sense.

As far as the racing, all that stands out to me is a bunch of amateur hour mistakes. Not even much excitement in pit strategy. Made me kind of wish for rain, at least that might have led to real passing.

If I took anything good away from today, it's that at least the points race is fairly close now.

[seppefan]

I popped this up yesterday but it has been deleted....anyway.


Did you notice during the race that they could not remember the name of the V in KV Racing. That is a worry. Like Brundle not remembering Berger owns half of Torro Rosso.

We need new commentators and fast who know what is going on and who is who.

[beachbum]

That's what happens when you insist on going full course yellow on a 3.2 mile road track. One of many reasons F1 doesn't in most circumstances. I disagreed with CART doing it for the same reasons.In most societies, a person has to take responsibility for their actions and must accept that participation in a dangerous activity has some risk. Unfortunately, the US is a litigious society where personal injury lawyers flood the airways with ads claiming "you too may make a lot of money from your injury". Even though every person anywhere near an active racing area (pits, track workers, etc) has to sign a waiver, that won't stop the lawyers. I have signed dozens of such disclaimers and have even read them numerous times. At one time, I even had reason to contact the insurance company that insured race promoters and ask about the validity of the documents. While they assured us the release would hold up in court, they also said it would be an very expensive battle with no guarantee, especially if any action was taken (or not taken) that could be twisted to suggest any negligence, real or imagined.

In other countries, the promoters can thumb their noses at the lawyers and base decisions on what is good for racing. But in the US, race organizers can't ignore the problem, and for survival must always err on the side of caution, even if it impacts the competition and the entertainment value. If they went local yellow, and someone slid into a corner worker, you can bet some lawyer would be screaming that the track, the sanctioning body, the other drivers, or whomever were negligent for not taking every possible precaution and someone has to pay. It has happened.

[BobGarage]

Did you notice during the race that they could not remember the name of the V in KV Racing.

no, they did remember it, they said the V in KV racing was Scott Pruett... before sounding like utter tw@ts for a good two minutes trying to remember if that was right or not.

[acescribe]

Gary Lee: "Disco!!! Hey I just merged Dixon and Briscoe....."

I doubt they will be dumped this year now, but if the IRL are serious about the all "new" 2009 then they should for the international TV. These guys might be a couple of good eggs that have been round the block bla bla, but the fact is they arent up to the job and are out of tune with the audience of whom they are speaking to.

[!!WALDO!!]

The most incompitant comentators I have ever heard. Waldo claims they are nice men, and I don't doubt it, but they are useless at covering the race.

There is constant talk about who they had breakfast with. I don't give a sh!t, tell me whats going on in the race!

Then a few moments ago... "Oriol Servias car co owned by Kevin Kalkhoven and Scott Pruett... oh wait no... I've forgoten... it'll come to me in a minute..... he won a race at michigan once.... erm.... I'm geting old". For f*ck sake! I was screaming jimmy Vasser at my TV!

Then moments after telling us Jay Howard had dropped out of the race with mechanical problems Justin Wilson pulls over "well Justins the only car not running at the moment". No he's not you useless pair!!! You just told me Jay Howard was out!

come on, please replace these pair. they really don't have a clue what they are doing!

What I find amazing is that "racing experts" like ourselves need people to tell them what they can see with two eyeballs and a functional brain.
Me I am usually 30 seconds ahead of any announcer but that is just me.

[BobGarage]

What I find amazing is that "racing experts" like ourselves need people to tell them what they can see with two eyeballs and a functional brain.
Me I am usually 30 seconds ahead of any announcer but that is just me.

lets have silence then. it'd be better than lee and rice talking about their dinner dates and who they had breakfast with.

Personally I like an informed, knowledgable person telling the race as it happens - Jeremy Shaw outdid himself on the CC international coverage with this (and in his le mans 24 hrs coverage this year). I find it enhances the viewing of the races with knowledgeable talk about whats going on. With lee and rice we do not get that.

[!!WALDO!!]

lets have silence then. it'd be better than lee and rice talking about their dinner dates and who they had breakfast with.

Personally I like an informed, knowledgable person telling the race as it happens - Jeremy Shaw outdid himself on the CC international coverage with this (and in his le mans 24 hrs coverage this year). I find it enhances the viewing of the races with knowledgeable talk about whats going on. With lee and rice we do not get that.


So when you go to races, who announces for you then? That is the difference, over 1000 races attended you do not need a voice telling you what to see and think, you get that yourself.

[seppefan]

What I find amazing is that "racing experts" like ourselves need people to tell them what they can see with two eyeballs and a functional brain.
Me I am usually 30 seconds ahead of any announcer but that is just me.

Hey come on. That is the answer. Replace them with WALDO!! and we will all be happy..

[coogmaster]

I present to you several listening alternatives to rectify this glowing commentator problem, not only for the international feed, but the normal ABC broadcast as well:

1. Turn it down, and use the indycar.com radio broadcast as your audio.

2. If you have an imagination, pretend that Paul Page circa 1992 is calling the action, with Bobby Unser providing his insights from Turn 2. (If you've watched these old races on VHS as much as I have and can almost predict what they will say, and have the time, patience, and ability to isolate yourself from others who would undoubtedly question your sanity, this is an obvious choice.)

3. Join myself, Waldo, and anyone else who would want to participate in kidnapping the ABC/IRL television producers, tie them up, and make them watch the 1989 broadcast of the Indianapolis 500 in its entirety. Learn from the best.

4. Memo to Tony George and IMS radio network: BRIBE ABC to put Bob Jenkins back in the booth, he is the most readily available replacement for the painful Marty Reid. Listening to him and Goodyear is like pulling teeth, and I'm sure a guy like Cheever would do well to replace Goodyear.

But really, try number 1. I find its the only feasible solution at this point.

[garyshell]

So when you go to races, who announces for you then? That is the difference, over 1000 races attended you do not need a voice telling you what to see and think, you get that yourself.

That's just too easy. Who announces for me then? My trusty little yellow scanner tuned to the corner workers and race control frequencies. (I don't want the TV announcers to tell me what to see and think. I want them to tell me what is going on that otherwise CAN'T be seen or heard.)

Especially on a road course, it is VERY important to have some way to hear what is going on at other places around the track than the one from your current vantage point. The PA systems at most tracks are inadequate at best and a joke at the very least.

Gary

[garyshell]

In other countries, the promoters can thumb their noses at the lawyers and base decisions on what is good for racing. But in the US, race organizers can't ignore the problem, and for survival must always err on the side of caution, even if it impacts the competition and the entertainment value. If they went local yellow, and someone slid into a corner worker, you can bet some lawyer would be screaming that the track, the sanctioning body, the other drivers, or whomever were negligent for not taking every possible precaution and someone has to pay. It has happened.


That's funny because SCCA, who on any given weekend has maybe a dozen different races going on somewhere in the USA, doesn't see it as a problem. That organization, both Nationally and Regionally, is not exactly flush with cash to defend lawsuits either. Yes, they've been sued. Full course yellows are still the exception and not the rule.

Is it the promoters or race control that decides when the track goes full yellow? I think it is absolutely RIDICULOUS than on a course the length of Watkins Glen that there is need to always go full course yellow. It is stupid, plain and simple. It assumes zero faith in all of the participants, drivers, crews, corner workers etc. It is pitiful.

Gary

[dataman1]

The American broadcast in Indy on the local digital channel had the track audio so loud I could just hear the announcers at times. It was a nice change. So I support Waldo's answer in doing without the booth announcers. I would keep a few pit reporters due to limited camera coverage. Heck take they money they pay for the pretty boys in the booth and use it to put up a few more cameras.

I think you keep announcers at the track so the guys in the restrooms dumping their processed beer can keep up.

[!!WALDO!!]

So I support Waldo's answer in doing without the booth announcers. I would keep a few pit reporters due to limited camera coverage.

That is a "behind the scenes" situation. I watch all the Nationwide and Cup races and ignore what is being said and listen to the pit reporters.

Two days at Chicagoland will cause me to get the scoop from observing and what is being said over the radios.

[!!WALDO!!]

Especially on a road course, it is VERY important to have some way to hear what is going on at other places around the track than the one from your current vantage point. The PA systems at most tracks are inadequate at best and a joke at the very least.

Gary


I saw everything that occured yesterday at Watkins Glen. Maybe not in real time but I did see everything.

Being at a road course like RA is tough but how can you see a pass in the turn 10 if you are in 1?

Sometimes you just need you imagination. That is why there will be more at a Nationwide race at Chicagoland than was at the last 2 CCWS at RA. No imagination required.

[BobGarage]

its all well and good saying if you don't like the commentators turn the sound off. But what about the casual fans who don't know whats going on, don't know the drivers names etc?

Remember we are talking about the international feed. The UK gets less than 30,000 viewers regularly for IndyCar. How are they supposed to grow the fanbase when the casual observer goes to watch a race but instead of being told who's driving or whats going on they are getting a run down of the breakfast menu at rice and lee's hotel that morning.

seriously, if the league really wants to grow its fanbase it has to do everything to draw in the casual observer not turn them away with poor commentary.

[!!WALDO!!]

its all well and good saying if you don't like the commentators turn the sound off. But what about the casual fans who don't know whats going on, don't know the drivers names etc?

The casual fan does not know good from bad. That is who it caters to.


Remember we are talking about the international feed. The UK gets less than 30,000 viewers regularly for IndyCar. How are they supposed to grow the fanbase when the casual observer goes to watch a race but instead of being told who's driving or whats going on they are getting a run down of the breakfast menu at rice and lee's hotel that morning.

Better announcers gets more fans? Please. You are smarter than that.


seriously, if the league really wants to grow its fanbase it has to do everything to draw in the casual observer not turn them away with poor commentary.


What happens if it goes to 35,000? You have to hang it all on Rice and Lee.

[acescribe]

[quote="BobGarage"]its all well and good saying if you don't like the commentators turn the sound off. But what about the casual fans who don't know whats going on, don't know the drivers names etc?
QUOTE]

Exactly.

And and example is that they seldom refer to Marco Andretti as anything other than "Marco". Marco who?! Now the American kid with the American history might need to introduction to the American TV audience, but Lee and Rice arent talking to them.

Commentating is a hard job, I know because its what I do, but the point we are trying to make here Waldo is that they are wrong for the position that they are in and they need to be replaced.

[!!WALDO!!]

Commentating is a hard job, I know because its what I do, but the point we are trying to make here Waldo is that they are wrong for the position that they are in and they need to be replaced.

So in the U.S. we will get about 1,000,000 people to watch out of 300,000,000 or about 1 out of 300. So based on Bob's numbers is the U.K. population 90,000,000? Otherwise they are better than the U.S.

NASCAR gets 3,000,000 out of 300,000,000 so 1 out of 100. They use 3 different announcing crews over the season just in Cup coverage.

Did you know who Marco is? How many of the 30,000 viewing did not know Marco?

Basically the 30,000 watching are hardcore fans so two chimps could announce.
It is still amazing how educated race fans that have attended races need a voice telling them what they are watching.

I guess maybe I am reading too much into the education thing. Please if you do not like it then turn it off. I have done that.

[!!WALDO!!]

The announcing duo is, in your opinion, adequate. So no need for a change. Do I correctly understand your point?

Therefore it logically follows that there is never any reason to improve the product; go to a higher level or deliver a better result. Not exactly the stand a person so closely allied with this (any, actually) sport might be expected to take, eh? ;)

Does not change the viewership. You must consider everyone watch to be stupid and the announcers play to that.

If you want to improve the product, buy the TV Rights away from Marty Reid.

Money and Mouth.. ;)

[LTalbot]

Stop complaining about full course yellows. If eliminated, how is a driver, wrongfully punted from a race going to safely make an obscene gesture to the driver who punted them when they next pass by? I say keep the full course yellow.

[!!WALDO!!]

Sorry, already paid my dues to the sport. Assuming the two are equal (M&M), others here have much more cash than I do. ;)

Maybe these guys who want change can ante up. It seems money means nothing to them.. ;)

[BobGarage]

Maybe these guys who want change can ante up. It seems money means nothing to them.. ;)

Waldo, this is a thread about the international comentators.... not marty reid and the US tv rights.

All we want is for lee and rice to be replaced. It will not cost any money, infact if they replaced them with someone knowledgable and good at his job, as an example Jeremy Shaw, it would probably save money!

[!!WALDO!!]

Waldo, this is a thread about the international comentators.... not marty reid and the US tv rights.

Wrong it is his PRODUCTION COMPANY that does the IRL Broadcasts. Thus Lee and Rice are paid by Reid.

Once again.....

[BobGarage]

Wrong it is his PRODUCTION COMPANY that does the IRL Broadcasts. Thus Lee and Rice are paid by Reid.

Once again.....

whoever does the hiring firing is irrelevant.

my point still stands.... replacing lee and rice will not cost money. Fire them and hire someone better at the job in hand!

[racer69]

To be fair it seems as if in alot of cases Lee & Rice aren't even at the track, just calling off a TV from somewhere else.

It's easy to tell who they rate & don't rate though (or do they just try too hard to show impartiality considering it is the world feed?)

At least the "man o man's" have stopped in the last year or two.

They've been doing the world feed since 2002 also, i don't see them going anywhere anytime soon

[BobGarage]

Wrong it is his PRODUCTION COMPANY that does the IRL Broadcasts. Thus Lee and Rice are paid by Reid.


Are you sure about that waldo? According to ESPN he sold his production company in 2005.

http://www.espnmediazone.com/bios/Talent/Reid_Marty.htm



In 1988, he formed his own company, Marty Reid Enterprises, in Indianapolis, to produce racing programming for ESPN and other networks. He sold the company in 2005.

[!!WALDO!!]

Are you sure about that waldo? According to ESPN he sold his production company in 2005.

http://www.espnmediazone.com/bios/Talent/Reid_Marty.htm

To his wife. He learned what Paul Page learned.

[elis]

Totally agree Bob. I tend to turn down the tv volume & listen to the online commentary. Their manner is so monotone. When you're used to the fab enthusiastic & knowledgable reporting from the likes of Martin Haven, Ben, & Jeremy Shaw its quite a change, & not in agood way. The peach last weekend was when the Conquest car of Camara crashed out... & one of the said "its um er, um its Bernoldi? to which the other replied, um, er, oh no he's already out" ! lol

[Andrewmcm]

Well Sky have picked up the main feed for commentary now, and to be honest I'd rather have Lee and Rice - at least with the international feed we stick with the racing in the UK when the international feed goes to a break. Unlike with the US feed when we end up back in the studio and not watching the action.

[underpowered]

Well Sky have picked up the main feed for commentary now, and to be honest I'd rather have Lee and Rice - at least with the international feed we stick with the racing in the UK when the international feed goes to a break. Unlike with the US feed when we end up back in the studio and not watching the action.

I didnt think I would miss Lee and Rice.....but today I did....at least they have some emotion.

[Mad_Hatter]

Yeah, the ABC commentary guys were a snoozefest. I thought Pedigo and Jon did well though.

[DavePI2]

With all the complaining about the announcers can someone answer this question. Who was it who made the brilliant statement today that this was Paul Tracy's first start this year in an open wheel race?


david

[DavePI2]

One more thing I noticed that today's great announcers said. A sellout at edmonton. hmmm, am i the only one who saw all those empty seats? What race were they watching?

david

[NickFalzone]

It looked like a great crowd to me, and even the practice and qualifying was getting a decent turnout. I saw a few empty seats but no empty sections, and quite a few walking next to the fencing. Not sure what constitutes a sellout when a lot of the stands are bleachers.

[DavePI2]

good point nick, I stand corrected, please forgive me. I guess as for me being at midohio last week it might be easy to miss such points after such a huge crowd there for the second straight year.

david