Short ovals good for the IRL ?

[seppefan]

Quotes of the Week "What a crazy race - it was like being in a knife fight in a phone booth!" Justin Wilson, IndyCar driver, Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing, referring to the crash marred Richmond race


I wonder if the short ovals are just too short for the IRL series. So many other tracks that can showcase the series perhaps in a better light than the crash fest last Saturday. Too many yellows and it only sorted itself once half the field had crashed. Wonder if Justin's quote will end up as the quote of the Year!

[BobGarage]

i don't think its necessarily the short ovals fault. I think the majority of people have been waiting for a race to turn into a "crashfest" this year with all the rookies and greater number of cars.

Everyone said Homestead would be a crash fest, it wasn;t. Everyone expected texas to be a crash fest, it wasn't.

It was going to happen at some point. Milwaukee is a short oval and its produced the best oval race of the year so far....

[wedge]

Possibly short track as in NASCAR short tracks ie. under a mile, not just the 1 milers?

The 1 milers are fine. Personally I never liked them running RIR. The jury's out on a place like Iowa.

[MAX_THRUST]

Haven't seen any races this year apart from StPete, but Richmond was always a favourite of mine. I love the variation in tracks this year, I hope they keep Richmond for next as the crowds will be filling the stands next year hoping for another crash fest, because that is what the layman fan wants to see sadly..........

[ChicagocrewIRL]

The drivers like the short ovals because car setup is less important than driver skills. A good driver can still be competitive on a short oval with an ill handling car. It's sometimes very confusing what the actual opinions are. Short ovals like Milwaukee, Phoenix, and Nazareth have all been described as "drivers" tracks. Maybe it has to do with the circuit being high banked or flat as well. I think
Justin Wilson's comment was just that, not a complaint.

[dataman1]

Short ovals are good for the series as Chicago pointed out. The teams and drivers with less chassis experience can still compete. That is good at this time. Seeing the same drivers/teams at the front weekly is bad for the overall show.

This particular event however showed a ton of driver error IMO. Going through it in my head I can not recall a yellow caused by a part failure. The majority were over gunning the gas coming out of a turn - driver controls the gas. Not what I would consider professional driving IMO.

[weeflyonthewall]

Milwaukee is a short oval and its produced the best oval race of the year so far....

The Mile is also without the NASCAResque high banks.

[Rogelio]

I personally did not care for the race. Our cars are supposed to be fast. I think the track is a perfect fit for NASCAR because they can use their bumpers and damage their cars.

I do like the fact that the short track is an equalizer, but that is about all I can say for that race. Leave the track to NASCAR because they like to bump into each other.

[Bob Riebe]

As to the original question of the thread NO with the exceptions of those that have history.

They should take the new ones plough them up and run dirt races there for the Silver Crown cars.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

As to the original question of the thread NO with the exceptions of those that have history.

They should take the new ones plough them up and run dirt races there for the Silver Crown cars.

Thank God you have no say whatsoever in how the series is run .

Short tracks are a challenge to all; driver, team, and machine. Racing should not be easy. Every sporting endeavor should be a challenge.

As for entertainment value to the fans, I was on the edge of my seat every green flag lap of Richmond wondering in awe how much skill it takes to keep from having a "moment" with the track or other drivers.

[bblocker68]

Short tracks are the best equalizer next to road courses. I love them. I want to see these cars back at Phoenix!

[weeflyonthewall]

Short tracks are the best equalizer next to road courses. I love them. I want to see these cars back at Phoenix!

As in Phoenix International Raceway? Maybe a downtown circuit once all the redevelopment is complete. PIR is a desert dustbowl for tintops not open wheel formula cars.

[indycool]

Phoenix was an Indycar track as far back as the '60s with formula cars and a rich history with them.

Yes, too many errors and yellows at Richmond and hard for the fan to get into real racing. That's going to happen once in awhile in ANY series at ANY track or track configuration. I don't think any conclusions can be drawn from it at all. It hasn't happened before at Richmond.

[dataman1]

Hey Indy,

Any thoughts to the driver complaints that the series that ran before ICS used Goodyear tires and the rubber on the track was not compatible with the Firstones, helping to make things slick.

Granted not all drivers wrecked so some could cope while others pushed a little too hard, regardless of the track conditions.

[Bob Riebe]

Thank God you have no say whatsoever in how the series is run .

Short tracks are a challenge to all; driver, team, and machine. Racing should not be easy. Every sporting endeavor should be a challenge.

As for entertainment value to the fans, I was on the edge of my seat every green flag lap of Richmond wondering in awe how much skill it takes to keep from having a "moment" with the track or other drivers.
With all these short tracks, is that why the IRL is doing so much better than the old USAC or early CART years?

[indycool]

dataman, that has been said in the past at various places by CART drivers (in their day, specifically once about Homestead and a different series) and others, that different tires don't "match up" well. I'm too technologically challenged to say whether that's right or just an excuse, but I've heard it before.

[Jason555]

I don't care for Indy racing on short tracks..... The last race had way too many cautions laps........

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Short ovals good for the IRL? I don't know but I wouldn't be watching if there were none. Richmond is definitely one of the best tracks in the series, I second everythinkg ChicagocrewIRL said.

Richmond produced excellent racing, lots of passing inside and outside whenever people didn't screw up the restarts. Brian Brainhart should listen to Darren Manning and Ryan Briscoe, the problem was driver antics at restarts and not track length. Every now and then, there will be destruction derbies like this regardless of track type, get over it.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I don't know how many of you have seen air races before, but that's what Indycar short track racing reminds me of. The vintage yet hugely powerful P-51 Mustangs, F4-U Corsairs racing at close quarters around pylons was and has been the most exciting adrenaline pumping racing I have ever seen. If those baby touched wings or anything else, it was all over. That's what IndyCar racing on short tracks reminds me of.

[indycool]

Know what you mean, Chi......the "racehorse" start to an air race, three abreast in two rows, TOP AND BOTTOM, is just wild....a totally added element to it.

[Chaparral66]

Does anyone here feel that Richmond is too short for Indy Cars?

[pits4me]

Know what you mean, Chi......the "racehorse" start to an air race, three abreast in two rows, TOP AND BOTTOM, is just wild....a totally added element to it.

Why some drivers referred to Richmond as an f'n bullring this weekend.


Does anyone here feel that Richmond is too short for Indy Cars?

Lose the NASCAR banking and like the Milwaukee Mile and Nazareth, it may be worthwhile. Better than that place in Avondale, AZ

[indycool]

Nazareth wasn't any longer than Richmond is.

[Hoss Ghoul]

Nothing wrong with RIR as an IRL track.

Mediocre and inexperienced drivers were shown for what they were this past weekend, no more, no less.


It starts to become embarrassing when fans search for excuses for poor driving. Did you watch the race? Guys losing it all by themselves or sliding up into another driver, like an ass, does not equal a bad track!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Nothing wrong with RIR as an IRL track.

Mediocre and inexperienced drivers were shown for what they were this past weekend, no more, no less.


It starts to become embarrassing when fans search for excuses for poor driving. Did you watch the race? Guys losing it all by themselves or sliding up into another driver, like an ass, does not equal a bad track!

I think this is the definitive assessment of the situation. Well said HG .

[call_me_andrew]

Nazareth wasn't any longer than Richmond is.

Yes it is. It's a quarter-mile longer.

And the USAC race run before the ICS rac used Hoosier Tires, not Goodyear.

/chop busting

EDIT: And Richmond is not too short. Hell, if we're lucky, Bruton will have us racing at Bristol!

[indycool]

No, Richmond is not too short.

No, Nazareth never was a full mile since it was paved.

[DrDomm]

I'm not saying short ovals have no redeeming qualities, but I could do without them.

I think large ovals (2+ mi.) are comparable to natural roadcourses, and short ovals are comparable to street circuits. The former is where these cars inherently perform best, and the latter are for (fan) convenience and contrived racing/entertainment.

[dataman1]

DrDomm,

As an FYI, for the years I worked in open wheel racing I had to file US taxes. The IRS has racing listed in the "Entertainment" category in the same area as a circus, carnival and other areas that somehow seem connected. Things that make you go Hmm... Now I know why the truck drivers on Sunday night after the race kept saying, "Let's get packed up its time to take this circus down the road".

[nigelred5]

Nazareth wasn't any longer than Richmond is.

Actually It was. Not much but it was longer. I want to say .926 mile. vs .75 mile. God I loved watching Champcars haul ass through the dogleg, climb the hill and then hit the backstraight like they were shot out of a cannon.
I still love both tracks. If I had the coin I'd buy Naz and beg borrow and steal to get indycars back there. Nazareth unter the lights on a saturday night would have been heaven on earth IMHO.

I love the short ovals, but quit screwing the pooch and let them run as big of a wing as they want.

[indycool]

Well, CART grudgingly admitted, after several years, that Nazareth was .92 or .93 of a mile. If you ever drove a rental car around it and looked at the odo, that was an attempt to squeeze every inch out of it CART thought it could get away with trying to sell the public because it was beating its breast about being faster than Phoenix. And if you ever drove a rental car around it (and I have), you'd know that the .92 or .93 was also questionable.

[dataman1]

Another piece of trivia. In CART we measured the track's inside white line 3 times. Then we switched directions and measured the track's outside white line 3 times. Then an average was calculated. Eventually, but after Nazareth, GPS was used to create track maps with distances.

Taking a ride in the center of the track with a rental car is as accurate? I wish we had thought of that. Sure would have saved a lot of time.

[indycool]

All that's fine. Except it was all ex-post-facto to the braggadocio that took place, so you don't know what to believe is true.

At the time, CART was trying its theme of "real cars, real stars," and claiming Nazareth was the fastest mile in the country over Phoenix and it was going to be faster than the IRL at Texas, etc.

In the last CART race at Phoenix, timing and scoring put a monitor up in the media room showing splits at various points on the course. CART officials quickly removed it when it showed that straightaway speed at Phoenix was SLOWER than the AVERAGE lap speed announced at Nazareth, which was a real "oops," some people said, "whoa" and CART officials quickly removed the monitor and wouldn't comment further.

It was later when CART fessed up that Nazareth was not a mile, maybe whenever you did your thing.

[speeddurango]

If TV and crows number is up then OK, but personally I don't think indycars should belong to any ovals shorter than 1 mile.