University, to go or not to go? [Archive]

Alfa Fan

25th January 2007, 21:58

Go. I'm at Lancaster at the moment and really enjoying it. The course is important, but not vital, just so long as it is something you can show a reasonable amount of interest in.

I'm doing Economics, something I enjoy, but to be honest, the course isn't too important for me. What I like most about university is the life on campus and all the new friends you meet. It almost feels like your constantly out with friends at times.

I'd never lived away from home before going and was concerned about how I'd cope with being away from home, but to be honest, I've hardly missed it, and during the time I spend at home I'm often looking forward to returning to university again to just be reimersed in the whole atmosphere on campus.

One thing I would say is you have to go to the right university, and it helps if you are lucky with the flatmates you end up with in year 1, like I have been.

So in conclusion, go! It will be the biggest regret you have if you don't, both economically and socially!!

Knock-on

25th January 2007, 22:00

Jon

Unfortunately, I'm the sort of person that might give you a job. Well, not you in particular but you know what I mean.

I tend to make my decisions on a few things that determine whether someone is suitable.

1. Do I like them
2. Can they do the job
3. Have they potential to excel
4. AOB

1. This relates to whether I think they will fit in and be a personal credit to the team. This is important as being the best team means not necessarily being the very best but the most suitable to move forward. In business you can have the best technology but with it might come additional risk so I tend to go with people that I know what makes them tick and trust their motives. The person behind the work influences how they work. They don't need to be like me (god forbid) but if they are sound, then it makes me happy.

2. They must be able to do the job. I don't give a sh!t if they have all the necessary experience but they must have relevant basics. This brings me onto the 3rd point.

3. If they have the basics but can get up to speed and start contributing above that then it interest me.

4. AOB. This is their Academic history. If they went to Uni. Why? Why not? What they did? Why they didn't?

It doesn't matter as long as I understand the though process behind their decision.

If you think you will get a benefit out of Uni that you need, some elevated education, then do it. If not, go and get started.

The RAF and all the armed forces provide good training and employers like someone that that excelled in that environment as it shows stability and consistent performance. However, innovation is good in my field so I look at that as well.

Whatever you do, make it for a career choice and not to have a few years laugh at Uni. You will find that you can have just as good a laugh without bankrupting yourself ;)

Brown, Jon Brow

25th January 2007, 22:11

Go. I'm at Lancaster at the moment and really enjoying it. The course is important, but not vital, just so long as it is something you can show a reasonable amount of interest in.

I've applied to Lancaster (although I'd live at home if I went there as I live 10mins from the campus ;) ) but I need 'A's and 'B's to get in and I think I've FCUK'ed my recent exams :mad:

Durham University (which I thought was the 3rd best in country after Ox-bridge) on'y reqiured 'B' and 2'C's.

jim mcglinchey

25th January 2007, 22:27

Fercrissakes dont start a course that your only half hearted about. If you like the sound of working with BAE or the RAF, give that whirl. Im sure you could study, even for a degree, part time.

Specialistion lad is the name of the game . Get skills that few others have but that lots of customers will need.

BDunnell

26th January 2007, 00:10

Whatever you do, make it for a career choice and not to have a few years laugh at Uni. You will find that you can have just as good a laugh without bankrupting yourself ;)

I disagree with that. University is not just about getting a career at the end of it. The point isn't that it provides you with a vocational qualification - at least, it shouldn't be. This seems to be changing.

I went to university because it was the natural thing for someone like me, with my academic ability, to do. I hope that doesn't sound arrogant - it really wasn't meant to. As far as I'm concerned, clever people should go to university. This isn't to say that there aren't plenty of clever people who don't go, but I think that's a mistake. In my experience, you can almost always tell who has been to university and who hasn't. Sadly, I doubt this will be the case in a few years. This isn't snobbish, just reality.

I didn't study German and Politics for three years (four including the year abroad) in order to get a job in either field. I went because I was good at those subjects and it was a natural educational progression. This should be the case for everyone who goes to university - I don't understand why there should be any doubt about it. The fact that, subsequent to getting my degree, my first job was in politics had nothing to do with my having studied it. I think this is how it should be.

In short, I'm afraid I don't think the doubt expressed by the person who started this thread about whether or not to go to university bodes well.

XSARA

26th January 2007, 01:10

Go. Whether it helps you with getting a job/your future etc. or not-go. Go because it is an experience in itself. You get an opportunity to learn so much about so many varied things. You'll probably never get the time or the opportunity to learn so much again. It's so worth it.

tannat

26th January 2007, 01:15

It depends.

If you are looking beyond the career you want, then you can learn a lot in Universities. Most of this can be applied to other things in life.

But if you are focused on the type of career you want, then it's best to look at other options as well as a multi-year committment to Uni. Technical & Vocational schools, as well as Military Service, can offer a more directed approach, at a lower cost.
Also look into the possibility of the Armed Services having financial plans that allow for College/Uni study while or after serving. This is common with the Armed Services here in the US with the G.I/Montgomery Bill plan, which helps pay for College/Uni.

Just some ideas to help. :)

This is sound advice from veteen :up:

One thing a uni degree will do is open doors for you. Some places here won't even give you a second thought if you don't have that flippin piece of paper. It's a doorkey for many, many jobs out there.

However, if you are thinking of occupations in the vocational-technical realm, then go that route, and if the UK is like the US there is fab tuition assistance provided to those who are in the military...

millencolin

26th January 2007, 01:56

do it! i do business, majoring in sports management.

the course is decent but you meet so many good people at uni. some of my best mates i met through uni. and most uni's have good pubs!!! nothing better than finishing your exams and forgetting EVERYTHING you learnt by drowning in a sea of cheap beer!

Erki

26th January 2007, 06:41

If you don't want to go, don't. Don't be like me. ;)

PS: High school academic abilities matter 1% :s

dchen

26th January 2007, 08:30

It all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just get a job and be there forever? Do you want a challenging job and eventually move up the corporate ladder?

I am an engineer (MSME and soon to be done MBA) currently working for a large aerospace company with people with either bachelor, master, or PhD degree. My previous job was at a reputable racing component manufacturer, with majority of people without college degree. What I noticed is that people at my current job are very creative, and are always facing unknown and difficult challenges. However, they will always be solved, and almost never have I seen someone give up. People always find way to solve problems here.

On the other hand, I have noticed the people at my previous job seem to get frustrated when they encounter problems. They are very good at tasks they are experienced on, but they are not very good at solving new problems. Sometimes it only requires a minor tweak to the procedures, or to think outside of the box, but they can't seem to grasp the ideas of trying something new while keeping the same engineering principles.

That's what college/university teaches you. The problem solving disciplines. You will use perhaps 5% of the knowledge you learn from college, but you will always use nearly all problem solving disciplines you learned from your college classes.

bowler

26th January 2007, 08:35

Robinho

26th January 2007, 08:51

for the xperience and general life skills you pick up i would say go, but don't do it for this reason alone, you can coast through scraping a degree in something you are not bothered about and you are unlikely to end up in a better career as a result,

if you are unsure what to do i would reccomend something that is highly transferable, such as Business, Economics, but avoid your sociology or Geography types unless you have a very sepecific career in mind.

if you want to progress further a degree is a good idea, but not the be all and end all, especially as you seem to have a viable alternative, a vocational apprenticeship will likely lead to a decent job just as quickly, although if you are thinking about BAE i would contact them to see about their scholarship programmes at Uni, i had a number of friend sponsored by BAE who took engineering (specifically Systems engineering) degrees, which are very useful if you want to work in that field.

i would say go, if you are sure, but don't waste your time if you are not too bothered, i loved uni, and have a decent degree in a useful subject, in fact i am now on day release on a second more specific course now i have found myself in a job that i want to go further, above anything a degree shows a willingness and ability to learn which i highly attractive to employers.

if you don't want to go now, its not too late, there is no reason to give up learning at any time if you feel you need to know something more to further your career

BeansBeansBeans

26th January 2007, 08:57

In my experience, you can almost always tell who has been to university and who hasn't. well.

is that cuz we dont speak all propa like?

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 09:20

I came out of Uni 20 years ago so any advice I'd give is well past it's sell by date by now.

However, it was an experience I wouldn't want to have missed. At the time I had no idea what I wanted to do career wise (still don't really :p : ) but I'd got enough A levels and Uni was the next step. I studied a subject I was interested in, and from that point of view, the learning experience was well worth it, although not in terms of getting a well paid job!!! There are no guarantees where that's concerned; it's more to do with your own efforts and motivation once you've got the degree.

One of the biggest things was that going to Uni made me independent, in the sense that I was away from home and had to manage all the boring day today things that life throws at you without being able to fall back on the comfort zone of parental support, which up until that point had been there whenever it was needed. It still was there, but at a distance, and not on tap.

I was in halls of residence for the first few months, which was a way of easing myself into Uni life and meeting new people, but soon a group of us decided to rent an 8-room farmhouse. The only form of heat was wood burning fires, and the place was blummin' freezing much of the time. Using the outside loo in winter was an adventure, as was breaking the ice in the kitchen sink to find a coffee mug in the morning! But we were having a great time. Those experiences and friendships were, and remain, priceless.

Whatever you decide, make sure you do it because you want to. It's your life to do with as you wish.

LotusElise

26th January 2007, 09:33

If you're undecided or feeling half-hearted about a subject, don't do it. As others have said, there are other routes into careers which might be better for you. Some of these might even lead to a funded or part-funded degree later, so don't write them off.
University is not worth it if you don't really care about your subject. You will be studying it exclusively for at least three years. I'm going to go against what a lot of people say and advise you not to go just for the lifestyle.

However, if you do care about your subject (or any other subject - are there others you might be able to study that you might've written off unneccessarily?) then definitely go.

Gannex

26th January 2007, 09:54

Don't go. You are not keen now, so you won't study hard, you won't excel, you'll rack up debt, and at the end of it you'll have a mediocre degree that will impress no prospective employers. Yes, you might get to go to lots of parties and drink a lot, but is that really a good reason to blow ten thousand quid and three years of your life?

Much better would be to go to work, whether in the RAF or anywhere else. Try to get ahead on your natural abilities. After four or five years of hard graft, struggling to pay bills, being pissed off at the people who are younger than you getting jobs above yours simply because they have a university degree, being patronised for not having a degree, being unable to join in the jolly conversations about university -- after four or five years of that, you'll be desperate to go to university and not have to work. That prospect, especially the notion of not having to work all day, will seem absolutely irresistible. You'll go, at the age of 23 or so, you'll be one of the more mature students, you'll be attractive to the younger girls, you'll appreciate the leisure and the social life, you'll know what you want to study, and you'll have an absolute blast. Also, you'll actually finish the programme, which is a long shot if you go right now.

So don't go now; go later.

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 10:03

I'm going to go against what a lot of people say and advise you not to go just for the lifestyle.
If by lifestyle you mean going to a freezing loo in the middle of the night then it wasn't much of a lifestyle for me :laugh:

Anyway, I agree. Don't go for the lifestyle. However, as a life experience Uni gets my vote. It will probably teach you more about life than the subject you're studying and that in itself is worthwhile.

Then again, life teaches you things whatever you do, as long as you're willing to learn :crazy:

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 10:04

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 10:16

I do agree with Gannex that the main reason to go to Uni is to learn something specific.
Isn't that far more the case now that you're sure to end your degree carrying a fair amount of debt? That being the case, it's far more important than it ever has been to spend your future income very wisely.

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 11:12

Isn't that far more the case now that you're sure to end your degree carrying a fair amount of debt? That being the case, it's far more important than it ever has been to spend your future income very wisely.

All I am saying is that you don't necessarily have to go to Uni to achieve a good career.

Doing a good "drinking" degree will not furnish you with an advantage in the job market and can have the opposite effect. If I saw 2 CV's, one with a drinking degree and the other person who had up sticks and travelled for 3 years around the world, I would not hesitate to bring the latter in. Far more gumption and life experience than someone who drank away 3 years on a mickey mouse course in some flea pit accommodation building up 10 years worth of debt.

A very good friend of mine built her way up from catering work when she was 16 to being strategic within a major corporation by the age of 32. I started in catering and am now strategic in a small software company at the age of 37.

Neither of us went to university although I did complete 2 terms on a degree course in GIS back in the early nighties. However, I decided that I couldn't afford to do the course and support myself as I had no family so I quit and got a proper job.

If there is a good reason to have a degree for a position, then go for it. Otherwise, you may be able to get on the career ladder and progress faster without one.

And forget all this hype about needing a degree otherwise you hit a ceiling. After the age of 25, nobody would take any notice of a historical old piece of paper over your day to day performance anyway.

AndySpeed

26th January 2007, 11:14

As far as I can tell University is one of the best life experiences you can possibly have. Not only will you come out with a valuable degree to set you apart from people without one, you learn so much about living and being around people all the time that it's invaluable.

I'm currently at Lancaster and the atmosphere here is great. Knowing so many people around you, and being able to have so many resources at your fingertips is brilliant (but has never come at such a high price...)

In the long run, yes, I may have over £16000 of debt. But bear in mind that so long as you do graduate with a relatively good degree, and get yourself a job as good as the average uni leaver, you'll be paying off the loan and most likely earning more than most people who didn't go to uni.

University centres like Lancaster also seem to have a great nightlife and number of bars :D One of which I recently found myself work in :cool:

Gannex

26th January 2007, 11:31

As far as I can tell University is one of the best life experiences you can possibly have.
OK, but why is it better to have that experience straight after school than having it after a few years in the real world? I think university is a fine thing, but, like youth itself, it is wasted on the young. After a few years working bloody hard, a person really appreciates the easy lifestyle of a student, and is apt to make the most of it. But when it comes straight after years of being taken care of financially by parents, and years of being a bored high-school student, disliking book-work, it comes at completely the wrong time. No wonder young people at that stage of life just drink, party, learn little, and grow even less. And no wonder that people in their 20's, who know what it is to slog away for a lousy boss, being underpaid and overworked, revel in the opportunity to be a student, learn about the world, and get away from the treadmill for three years.

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 11:58

...when it comes straight after years of being taken care of financially by parents, and years of being a bored high-school student, disliking book-work, it comes at completely the wrong time. No wonder young people at that stage of life just drink, party, learn little, and grow even less...
A bit of a generalisation there don't you think Gannex? With no parents around of course there is a sense of freedom and "I can do anything I want now", but while some make the most of that and little else, there are those who take their new responsibilities seriously and knuckle down. Then there are those who are capable of finding the middle ground.

Those who simply party hard, and take little or no responsibility would be likely to do the same whether at Uni or not, and probably would not be employed by Knock-on either way :)

Of course, there's nothing to say you have to go to Uni straight after high school / college, and doing so later in life is well worth considering. Then you'd have a different perspective on life, and different life experiences.

LotusElise

26th January 2007, 12:03

I'm actually returning to university this year to do a Masters degree and I fully appreciate what Gannex is saying. Now I've experienced working life I know what I want to do and I've worked out how to get there too.

inamo

26th January 2007, 12:14

University on its own is not an instant passport to a well paid job. However it can help. The key thing is to know why you want to go to uni. For me I wanted to become an engineer, so a degree is a good route to becoming qulaified. To make sure engineering was the right choice I spent a "Year in Industry" before uni, which gave me invaluable experience - the downside being that I also knew that many of the things I learnt at Uni I wouldn't immediately use in my job. By working before I went I had some savings, and these helped to go towards my living costs both for my undergrad degree and my MSc at Cranfield immediately afterwards.

If you're interested in business and racing consider going to a university which has a formula student team - part of the competition is a marketing presentation of the business proposal - Engineers typically aren't good at this so often there's an opportunity for business / marketing students to get involved.

Whatever you decide compliment your education with experience - it makes job interviews much easier - you have a lot to talk about, which your average school leaver who went straight to uni and didn't work in their summers won't be able to do.

Good luck - there aren't any wrong decisions, you just need to make the best of all opportunities available to you.

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 12:19

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 12:37

Good luck - there aren't any wrong decisions, you just need to make the best of all opportunities available to you.
:up:

BeansBeansBeans

26th January 2007, 12:57

And forget all this hype about needing a degree otherwise you hit a ceiling..

You're wrong there. I hear that the likes of Sir Alan Sugar, Bernie Ecclestone and Gordon Ramsay are struggling to progress their careers without that all important degree in Feminist Literature.

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 13:00

You're wrong there. I hear that the likes of Sir Alan Sugar, Bernie Ecclestone and Gordon Ramsay are struggling to progress their careers without that all important degree in Feminist Literature.

LMFAO.

3B, you do come out with some corkers :laugh:

Rudy Tamasz

26th January 2007, 13:38

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 13:58

Studying at Uni is not only about getting some technical skills and making a career. It is about getting a wealth of excellent knowledge that will make your life richer and help you understand the world better. It is a life learning experience. I have an M.A. and am pretty happy about having studied at the Unis.

Go.

I'm not saying that going to Uni isn't a great time. However, getting a job and standing on your own 2 feet teaches you all the life skills you need and a hell of a lot more than Uni.

I hear people going on about Uni as if they're going to fight St Georges Dragon. It's a doddle compared to real life and don't tell me any different because I've been there.

1st you have Halls to ease in. Then you have nice clubs and cheap drink to give you social structure. Structured lessons and free resources to help advance your studies. Plenty of time off to develop into fluffy rounded human beings and back to Mummy at the Holidays.

Christ, do you think us oldies were never 18?

If you think Uni is tough then you have got a sharp learning curve round the corner when you're working 60 hours a week just to make enough to survive, week in, week out.

Uni is a great resource but you normally only have one shot at it. Do the best course you can to give you the skills to achieve and excel in a career or don't bother and get out there and work instead.

Gannex

26th January 2007, 14:56

But when [university] comes straight after years of being taken care of financially by parents, and years of being a bored high-school student, disliking book-work, it comes at completely the wrong time. No wonder young people at that stage of life just drink, party, learn little, and grow even less.

A bit of a generalisation there don't you think Gannex?
Whoa! Yes! A terrible way of putting it. Thanks for alerting me, Arrows. Apologies if that sounded like it came from a crusty old man in his fifties who's forgotten what it's like to be eighteen, but the reason is that it came from a crusty old man in his fifties who's forgotten what it's like to be eighteen.

ArrowsFA1

26th January 2007, 15:01

:laugh: Ahhhh, there's the difference you see. I'm a crusty old man in his forties who has almost forgotten what it's like to be eighteen :p

Erki

26th January 2007, 15:53

Don't forget me, a crusty old man in his late teens who doesn't think there's much to forget about being eighteen anyway.

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 16:04

I'll take the 30's (just about.

All we need is a 20 something and we're pretty much there :D

LotusElise

26th January 2007, 16:35

That'll be me then.

schmenke

26th January 2007, 16:41

...I hear people going on about Uni as if they're going to fight St Georges Dragon. It's a doddle compared to real life and don't tell me any different because I've been there.

...If you think Uni is tough then you have got a sharp learning curve round the corner when you're working 60 hours a week just to make enough to survive, week in, week out....

So true, so true.

I remember the endless days and nights cramming for exams and the stress of having assignments and projects completed on time. At the time I thought it was pure hell and couldn't wait to finally graduate, get a job and end all that horrible stress. Man, was I in for a surprise! :mark:

Now as I sit here in my crusty 40s, working for real clients who have put millions (if not billions) of $s of capital investment into a project that I have to deliver on time, on budget... gawd, pass me the antacids will you please :s .

I now reminice now about the good ol' stress-free uni days :) ...

Funny thing is though, in hindsight, I don't think I would have anything different with my career path choices :) ... well, I do at times feel a tinge of regret at declining that job offer as head photogropher for Big 'n Bouncy Monthly... :erm:

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 16:42

Well Lotus my little petal (like the play on words there, did yer, eh, did yer?) looks like you have the twenties.

Bingo, House and Snap I say unless Silverfox comes in with a top trump :D

Knock-on

26th January 2007, 16:44

well, I do at times feel a tinge of regret at declining that job offer as head photogropher for Big 'n Bouncy Monthly... :erm:

If you start Oily off again, I'll 'ave you!!!

;)

Right, sorry, enough thread hijacking.

So, has it been helpful Jon? Are the waters of indecision nicely muddied now?

Brown, Jon Brow

26th January 2007, 16:49

If you start Oily off again, I'll 'ave you!!!

;)

Right, sorry, enough thread hijacking.

So, has it been helpful Jon? Are the waters of indecision nicely muddied now?

156 times more confused than before ;)

Caroline

26th January 2007, 17:18

Being a student is fun, even the being broke bits. It is a chance to discover so much about yourself and learn loads. And if it is not for you, change course or find a job. It is not the end of the world. The only thing I would seriously consider is whether my degree would be of use in the real world. Make sure you choose something that is going to be respected by employers or will lead to further qualifications.

I'm probably repeating what has been said before :p :

tintin

26th January 2007, 19:04

Go.
But do a course that you want to do, not something you think you ought to do.

University isn't all about learning. But it isn't just about "the experience" either. Just like the rest of your life, it's also about the people you meet.

GridGirl

26th January 2007, 19:27

When I left school, I did a vocational course in Accountancy. I really enjoyed the work and realised it was a job that I liked, but after a year I thought sod it, I cant be bothered working, I've got the rest of my life for that. I left did, my A levels and went on to do a degree in Accounting & Finance.

I got a good degree, from a good university but I really found it hard to get a job after I graduated. The fact that I had a degree in my chosen vocation counted for nothing. It was very disheartening to find at the many assessment days and interviews I went to that the people I was up against almost never had a an accounting degree or anything vaguely relevant.

I did manage to get lucky and find a job, but many of the people that graduated with me didn't. My degree helped me to gain exemptions when I took my professional qualifications. But, having said that I didnt end up becoming a qualified accountant any quicker than it would have taken me if I'd have kept going along the vocational route.

I learnt alot from the uni experience and wouldnt change it for anything, but I wouldnt put all your hopes into getting a job in any area just becuase you've spent 3 years doing a degree in it.

jso1985

26th January 2007, 19:30

University won't open automatically the doors to dream jobs or well paid jobs.
It opens the doors to jobs the require the skills you learn there(at least the academical ones), simple as that.
So my advice is go if you want do it, besides that what you learn there helps a lot in the future, university life is somethhing you can't experience somewhere else but please don't go just for the "fun", people doing "drinking" degrees just waste 3-4 years of their life, learn nothing and leave with huge debts. not saying don't enjoy all that fun that uni gives you but only doing that helps nothing in life

EuroTroll

26th January 2007, 21:08

In my experience, you can almost always tell who has been to university and who hasn't. Sadly, I doubt this will be the case in a few years. This isn't snobbish, just reality.

In my experience, that's generally the view of people who have very little understanding of how life works, of what is important and what isn't.

As many have said, Jon, I don't think there is much point in going for a degree you're unsure or half-hearted about. Instead of doing that, you'll be much better off just living for a year or two, trying as many pursuits as possible, until you find something you really care about. When you do find it, you'll know exactly what to do next - be it studying in a university, studying in a vocational school or getting some sort of a job.

stevie_gerrard

26th January 2007, 21:54

I think you have to be dedicated to go, and be willing to do the work, and if you are, then it will be the best experience of your life.

But you have to want to go, so dont go if you dont think its the right decision.

tin-top fan

27th January 2007, 04:16

I think it very much depends on what career you want to go into. I have friends at Uni who do causes that I find hard to justify- such as one who does international hospitallity management and wants to open a restaurant in the future! Surely getting a grounding in the restaurant industry would be far more useful........
On the other hand, i'm currently in my first year at uni and am doing a course in Civil Engineering. I'm sponspored by a company and have to spend my hollidays working for them. I'll also spend my 3rd year working for them and then hopefully end up with a job with them after 5 years. In this industry its impossible to reach the top without the degree so for me uni is invaluable, but for the people on some of the other courses I do wonder whether they would be better off working for 3 years instead...

tinchote

27th January 2007, 05:36

Whoa! Yes! A terrible way of putting it. Thanks for alerting me, Arrows. Apologies if that sounded like it came from a crusty old man in his fifties who's forgotten what it's like to be eighteen, but the reason is that it came from a crusty old man in his fifties who's forgotten what it's like to be eighteen.

:D

harsha

27th January 2007, 14:24

depends on your career,and once you make your decision and if you do go to the university,don't drop out.....

imull

27th January 2007, 14:39

Should I bother going to uni next year?

and I'm seriously considering either doing an apprenticeship with BAE sytems or joining the RAF!

Nothing worse than doing something because you cant think of anything better to do. You might as well not bother with it unless your heart is in it.

If your into the RAF (flight crew or ground crew?) then you can combine the two with the RAF University Air Squadron. Go to your local recruiting office and talk to the RAF officer to find out what they can offer......

viper_man

27th January 2007, 22:56

Seriously Jon Id 100% say go. But make sure it is for the right reasons and your heart is in it.

But you really will love it, if not for the career prospects then for the experience.

Drew

28th January 2007, 01:17

If you're going to go, do a course that will actually be useful, don't do a mickey mouse degree just to get a degree. Bear in mind that it'll be extremely expensive and that you'll be away from home.

Most of all, do what's best for you...

Erki

31st January 2007, 06:13

What Steve Jobs has to say:

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 09:43

I do agree with Gannex that the main reason to go to Uni is to learn something specific.

Being honest, if someone came to me with a 2:1 or 2:2 in English or Sports Psychology, then it would go against them over someone without a degree; experience aside. If they had a bad grade in Physics or Chemistry, then it wouldn't go against them as they completed a proper course where I know you need to study.

Why do people want to turn university into a vocational thing? I don't understand this, other than in relation to courses such as law and medicine. Your logic defeats me, I'm afraid.

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 09:49

is that cuz we dont speak all propa like?

I did say almost everyone. There are plenty of exceptions — mainly those who don't have a chip on their shoulder about not having gone. I have encountered many people who do.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 10:39

Why do people want to turn university into a vocational thing? I don't understand this, other than in relation to courses such as law and medicine. Your logic defeats me, I'm afraid.

I suppose it relates to what my view of education is.

Personally, I see secondary school as being a tool for achieving a basic level of education. A Levels as a way of personal advancement if you want to aspire to a higher education and a degree as a way of academically excelling to give you the necessary grounding in achieving an elevated position in a specific field.

I also appreciate that if you choose vocational training, then there is a structured progression that allows you to get the same benefits through a framework such as NVQ.

It's horses for courses I suppose.

I do not consider University to be some sort of young adult personal progression course where you "find" yourself. That should be done off your own back without using Taxes paid by working people such as me.

Call me selfish ;)

LotusElise

31st January 2007, 10:56

I
I do not consider University to be some sort of young adult personal progression course where you "find" yourself. That should be done off your own back without using Taxes paid by working people such as me.

I think it's more student loans and paying your own fees these days!
(Although actually, I do agree with you - when I return to student life later in the year it will be because I want to study and to learn from experts in my field (Archaeology) and to develop as an archaeologist.)

Rudy Tamasz

31st January 2007, 11:54

I hear people going on about Uni as if they're going to fight St Georges Dragon. It's a doddle compared to real life and don't tell me any different because I've been there.

1st you have Halls to ease in. Then you have nice clubs and cheap drink to give you social structure. Structured lessons and free resources to help advance your studies. Plenty of time off to develop into fluffy rounded human beings and back to Mummy at the Holidays.

Christ, do you think us oldies were never 18?

If you think Uni is tough then you have got a sharp learning curve round the corner when you're working 60 hours a week just to make enough to survive, week in, week out.

Yeah, right. Unis are just ivory towers with cheap booze and accessible sex. What exactly in my post brought you to your rant? In my case it was a mix of fun and hard work. Being a paperboy and working night shifts as waiter are not unfamiliar to me, let alone 5,000 word papers due in short time.

But I wasn't positioning unis as a competition to other types of occupation. To each its own. I was talking about different things. Uni opens your eyes on many things you'd never hear about in any other place. "Structured lessons and free resources" you are so skeptical about help you develop your personality and your view of the world. Geography, literature and philosophy may not earn you an extra buck but they will make your life more complete.

Erki

31st January 2007, 12:31

Uni opens your eyes on many things you'd never hear about in any other place. "Structured lessons and free resources" you are so skeptical about help you develop your personality and your view of the world. Geography, literature and philosophy may not earn you an extra buck but they will make your life more complete.

:up: What happened to those times when you could go to University just to become a wise and cultivated person? I guess that was medieval times... or I should go to Uni and find out. :) Universities are just so expensive that most people who go and have to pay for it, take a course that would give them a better chance to pay that loan back and earn some money.

A Levels as a way of personal advancement if you want to aspire to a higher education and a degree as a way of academically excelling to give you the necessary grounding in achieving an elevated position in a specific field.

There's no need for a position, a person can educate themselves just for the sake of educating as well, or what do you think?

I do not consider University to be some sort of young adult personal progression course where you "find" yourself. That should be done off your own back without using Taxes paid by working people such as me.

Me neither. But I think this should be done in high school, but it isn't done right now, so the only way to find out is to dabble.

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 13:50

I do not consider University to be some sort of young adult personal progression course where you "find" yourself. That should be done off your own back without using Taxes paid by working people such as me.

Call me selfish ;)

I agree absolutely with that. However, it is impossible to separate that element of being at university from the academic side, and I am perfectly happy about my taxes going towards the university education of those who choose to go. What I'm not happy about, as I've stated before, is the dilution of the value of going to university by the current government's 50 per cent target for admissions.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 13:51

Yeah, right. Unis are just ivory towers with cheap booze and accessible sex. What exactly in my post brought you to your rant? In my case it was a mix of fun and hard work. Being a paperboy and working night shifts as waiter are not unfamiliar to me, let alone 5,000 word papers due in short time.

But I wasn't positioning unis as a competition to other types of occupation. To each its own. I was talking about different things. Uni opens your eyes on many things you'd never hear about in any other place. "Structured lessons and free resources" you are so skeptical about help you develop your personality and your view of the world. Geography, literature and philosophy may not earn you an extra buck but they will make your life more complete.

Rudy

I didn't mean to come across as not agreeing with Universities. They have a very valid function.

I also appreciate that to apply yourself to a course requires dedication and if you are supporting yourself, a hell of a lot of hard work.

The bottom line for me is whether Universities are for people to learn and prepare for a specific work skill such as engineering, physics etc or for personal development to make them a more complete person.

I have no problem with either but if you want to progress on a course that is only going to provide personal benefits, then should the scant resources available to universities be part funding these courses or should they be totally personally funded, thereby freeing up the funds for courses that will generate revenue when the people start work?

I know people that worked their socks off on vocation based courses and have done very well with them.

I also know people that partied through Uni on good drinking courses and scrapped a 2:2. They have not benefited at all from the course and wasted 3 years having fun.

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 13:55

I have no problem with either but if you want to progress on a course that is only going to provide personal benefits, then should the scant resources available to universities be part funding these courses or should they be totally personally funded, thereby freeing up the funds for courses that will generate revenue when the people start work?

I see it as being for the benefit of all that people study such subjects as languages, geography, history, politics and English at university, even if they are not vocational. University should not be about churning people out with specific jobs in mind.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 15:30

I see it as being for the benefit of all that people study such subjects as languages, geography, history, politics and English at university, even if they are not vocational. University should not be about churning people out with specific jobs in mind.

That's fair enough. I guess we can disagree on this point but I see where you're coming from.

However, some of the courses you have mentioned would not necessarily be the ones I was referring to.

Languages can be incredibly helpful especially in emerging commercial markets such knowing Mandarin.

Politics can also have use in Business even if you're not planning on working in Politics itself.

Geography can also be a useful degree and one that I was involved in when I was at Uni studying GIS. There is a whole industry built up around this subject.

It's the degrees such as Contemporary Circus and Stand Up Comedy that are, pardon the pun, a Joke.

This piece from the times is very relevant to this piece but make sure you read the 2nd page.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-2087455,00.html

I agree totally with Philip Green.

Viktory

31st January 2007, 15:32

I'm going to university next year (I hope)
I've applied to University of Nottingham, Cardiff University and University of Southampton. Economics in all three.
I'm really looking forward to it, I have an offer from Nottingham. My sister is studying in Bristol right now and she's having a great time.

schmenke

31st January 2007, 15:50

... I am perfectly happy about my taxes going towards the university education of those who choose to go...

Totally agree. I will never oppose increasing tax dollars to support a higher education. Everyone benefits from an educated society.

LessThanSte

31st January 2007, 15:59

Hm, my opinion is very much this;

If your going to go to a crappy ex polytechnic type uni, OR do a course that has a class size of over 100 and is available at EVERY other uni in the country, save yourself the money and dont bother.

If, on the other hand, your going to go to a decent uni, (think oxford, cambridge, nottingham, birmingham, leeds, manchester etc (and by that i mean the official ones and not like Manchester Met, Aston, UCE, Nottingham Trent etc)) then go for it. If you come out of those uni's with a 2:1 or better, chances are you'll find yourself a job sooner or later that you want to do.

It also helps if you throw yourself at all the summer placements and stuff to get with a company before you leave uni.

Generally, degrees in engineering, science (particularly Physics), medicine or maths are the best to go for. The rest, because they are so popular throughout the country (like, say, Psychology, Computer Science, Law etc (and can probably include Business Studies in there too!), means thatyou will struggle to find a job once you leave uni, unless you get into the top 10-15% of your year group!

The problem is at the moment that everyone seems to be pushing people to go to uni and say you cant get on without it. Im at uni presently and given the chance would go again even if i had to pay the increased tuition fees, mainly because i know that my choice of degree is almost certain to get me a well paid job at the end of the day.

All this talk of increased tuition fees by uni guilds is utter nonsense. Graduates cant get jobs for love nor money because there are simply so many of them. Increasing the tuition fees mean that students who arnt utterly committed wont go to uni, freeing up resources for better research and better teaching of current students and making uni worthwhile again.

British university degrees are the best degrees to have in the world, particularly in america where companies have lost trust with most of therenational universitys, which explains the massive number of oriental students at british unis. At present if uni places increases as it has done up til this year, british degrees will go the same way as those in america and be, near enough, worthless!

For the record, im at the University of Birmingham, studying Civil Engineering.

Pick your uni based on its research status, that will get you most noticed with companies following university!

Rudy Tamasz

31st January 2007, 16:22

The bottom line for me is whether Universities are for people to learn and prepare for a specific work skill such as engineering, physics etc or for personal development to make them a more complete person.

I have no problem with either but if you want to progress on a course that is only going to provide personal benefits, then should the scant resources available to universities be part funding these courses or should they be totally personally funded, thereby freeing up the funds for courses that will generate revenue when the people start work?

Funding is a whole different matter. I agree that people should pay for the services they get including education, at least up to a point.

I agree totally with Philip Green.

That's a utilitairan approach, too simplistic in my view and too slippery. My would-have-been brother in law dropped out of the secondary school for commerce when he could barely write and do the math. He used to say he should have done it even earlier. That way he would have earned even more money. Well, he developed into a person who barely knows anything but money and sincerely thinks he can buy anything. He left me pay the bills for my nephew, his son and preferred to run his business and hang out with his friends. Now he's built a tasteless but expensive house and keeps inviting the kid to move to his place. He wants to enjoy the company of his son somebody else raised. Something tells me if he had more education he would be less of a ba$tard.

LotusElise

31st January 2007, 16:48

All this talk of increased tuition fees by uni guilds is utter nonsense. Graduates cant get jobs for love nor money because there are simply so many of them. Increasing the tuition fees mean that students who arnt utterly committed wont go to uni, freeing up resources for better research and better teaching of current students and making uni worthwhile again.

Please don't tell me you believe that. There are committed students who are now unable to go to university because they can't afford it, while wealthier ones who are just going because they can't think of anything else to do get in.

I'm all for reducing student numbers and deterring timewasters, but charging huge tuition fees isn't the way to do it.

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 17:17

This piece from the times is very relevant to this piece but make sure you read the 2nd page.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7-2087455,00.html

I agree totally with Philip Green.

Of course he would say that having a degree isn't vital — he didn't get one, and I feel that in spite of his huge success, he's the sort of person I mentioned earlier as probably having a (subconscious) chip on their shoulder in relation to people who did.

As for the rest of it, I think there are several problems at work, and I think that a lot more students are being tarred with the same brush by the people quoted in the article than is necessary or valid. In particular, the quote by Philip Green when he says that 'when he interviews graduates for jobs and asks them why they did a certain degree they can’t give a definitive answer and say that they went to university because they thought that was what they were supposed to do' is rather simplistic. I went to university to study politics and German because it was the natural next step for me, I was good at both subjects, interested in them and enjoyed them. Is this now deemed to be too vague, and my time as a student therefore a waste of time and money?

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 17:20

Please don't tell me you believe that. There are committed students who are now unable to go to university because they can't afford it, while wealthier ones who are just going because they can't think of anything else to do get in.

I'm all for reducing student numbers and deterring timewasters, but charging huge tuition fees isn't the way to do it.

Absolutely.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 17:38

I went to university to study politics and German because it was the natural next step for me, I was good at both subjects, interested in them and enjoyed them. Is this now deemed to be too vague, and my time as a student therefore a waste of time and money?

If you enjoyed the experience and feel it has enhanced your personal life then personally it was a good step.

However, at the time you did your course, I would imagine you didn't leave after 3 years with £25k of debt.

From a career point of view, is the degree course relevant? If it is then professionally it was valid. However, a student leaving today with this debt and that answers No to that question has got to ask themselves was it a waste of time and money?

There is no definitive on this. People can get personal and professional value from a degree. To what level it's relevant to their personal life and career is really a case for them to justify.

Personally, if I had 2 CV's from two 22 year old and one had 4 years sales experience and the other a degree in English, I would give more brownie points to the experience. That's what making a decision is all about and if you think a non relevant degree with positively influence you in the workplace, I have to say you're wrong and can even count against you.

That's not having a chip on my shoulder or some anti-University vendetta. It's a logical business decision that employers like me make.

LessThanSte

31st January 2007, 17:39

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 17:47

If you enjoyed the experience and feel it has enhanced your personal life then personally it was a good step.

However, at the time you did your course, I would imagine you didn't leave after 3 years with £25k of debt.

From a career point of view, is the degree course relevant? If it is then professionally it was valid. However, a student leaving today with this debt and that answers No to that question has got to ask themselves was it a waste of time and money?

There is no definitive on this. People can get personal and professional value from a degree. To what level it's relevant to their personal life and career is really a case for them to justify.

Indeed. However, I hope that I would still say the same if I had been forced to pay tuition fees — without doubt, one of the worst policies implemented by the current government (apart from the 50 per cent target!)

Personally, if I had 2 CV's from two 22 year old and one had 4 years sales experience and the other a degree in English, I would give more brownie points to the experience. That's what making a decision is all about and if you think a non relevant degree with positively influence you in the workplace, I have to say you're wrong and can even count against you.

That's not having a chip on my shoulder or some anti-University vendetta. It's a logical business decision that employers like me make.

I know that's what these decisions are based on, and I agree with the premise. It also applies to people with different types of degree, all of whom have one. When my old boss and I were interviewing to find my replacement, we rejected lots of people with a lot of specific degree experience in the most closely-related subject because it was entirely irrelevant and no proof that they could do my actual job. I forget whether the person we chose also had a politics degree (they probably did, now I think about it), but they certainly had the more relevant experience for the position.

However, I am still very firmly of the opinion that having a university education should not be downgraded in the way that's happening as a result of government policies, and that getting a degree should not be seen purely in financial or vocational terms.

BDunnell

31st January 2007, 17:50

My would-have-been brother in law dropped out of the secondary school for commerce when he could barely write and do the math. He used to say he should have done it even earlier. That way he would have earned even more money. Well, he developed into a person who barely knows anything but money and sincerely thinks he can buy anything. He left me pay the bills for my nephew, his son and preferred to run his business and hang out with his friends. Now he's built a tasteless but expensive house and keeps inviting the kid to move to his place. He wants to enjoy the company of his son somebody else raised. Something tells me if he had more education he would be less of a ba$tard.

A very interesting point, and one that — relating back to that newspaper article — I have a lot of sympathy with. Personally, I don't go along with the view that we should respect people who have been successful in business, or indeed think that their views are somehow exceptionally valid, just because of that success.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 18:14

True, that is the unfortunate downside of the whole tuition fee issue, which is why uni's themselves need to be accountable and pick the students who show the most potential for courses rather than select people who've been lucky enough to be given the best possible education.

I totally agree.

This crazy idea by the Government to get more and more people into University seems ludicrous to me.

Let me pull a few relevant excerpts from that article.

"Research shows that three years after finishing their studies 40 per cent of recent graduates are in jobs that don’t require a degree. Drop-out rates for some courses are more than a third."

40% didn't need to spend 3 years in Uni to do what they are doing. They would have 3 more years experience and the money they spent on Uni and the money they could have earned would have paid for a healthy deposit on a house for example. Now, we can go on about personal development at Uni all we like but I would suggest that buying a house is a massive personal development.

"When the average new-graduate salary is about £14,000 yet a non-graduate trainee business manager at McDonald’s can expect a starting package of £18,000, who could blame teenagers for asking whether a degree is really worth the hassle? You can still get a decently paid job without letters after your name. Just ask a journalist."

I've got a 22 year old lad working for me with 1 years experience who is on significantly more than a Macdonalds chappie because of his work ethic and application. He has a few GCSE's but no further education but communicates on a daily basis to Snr Management and Directors of medium and large corporation. How is a degree going to compete with that?

"As the Government pushes towards its target of 50 per cent of school-leavers going into higher education, a recent study of more than 28 million UK jobs found that only 32 per cent were “knowledge based” — ie, traditionally requiring a degree."

So, we have 18% of over-subscription. That means jobs will be even more heavily fought for so what do we do with the people that are heavily in debt, have no experience, no relevant qualification and are 4-6 years behind the career curve of non-Uni applicants. Are we developing a sub-class of Highly educated unemployable people here? In the 80's we had Yuppies, these could be the if-only's.

"Lloyd Dorfman, executive chairman and founder of Travelex, went to St Paul’s School, London, but not to university. He believes that although university is a “life widening ” experience for young people it is not always particularly relevant to employers. "

This is the basic reality I'm trying to convey. If it's relevant to your chosen career then do it. If you want a life widening experience then there are cheaper and better ways to do it without wasting 3 years of your life. I would respect someone that had taken a year out to travel and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. They would have good "life experience" that I would value much more than someone in the cosy digs of a Uni campus. Lastly, it shows that they can work independently and be proactive.

Now, they are qualities that I look for.

“From an employer point of view, I think there are two parts. There is the very top level of graduates, people coming out of universities with firsts. That is a powerful calling card, especially for the more intellectually demanding jobs. Outside those jobs, I am not sure what the significance of a degree is. I think it has been diluted. We are looking for people who give us a sense of commitment, who are conscientious and caring, and who are looking to make a contribution. Going to university doesn’t necessarily give you those qualities. More and more people are going to university now, and I am not sure that kids are convinced that a degree is a route to a job in the same way it once was.”

QED

I'm actually passionate about this because if people don't start getting realistic and keep going to Uni for the sake of it, it gonna cost £500 per half an hour for a plumber (if you can get one) and you might as well buy a new car rather than get yours serviced because of the cost of the bill.

My mate has a degree is 45 and a sodding good teacher at a senior level in a excellent school. The only way he will ever earn as much as a 30 year old plumber is by becoming a Head Master and give up what he has trained and worked all his life to do; teach.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 18:32

A very interesting point, and one that — relating back to that newspaper article — I have a lot of sympathy with. Personally, I don't go along with the view that we should respect people who have been successful in business, or indeed think that their views are somehow exceptionally valid, just because of that success.

Depends on what you mean by respect. Respect for them personally; of course not. However, you have to respect their success even if you don't agree with their methods or morals.

If Sir Philip Green offered me professional advice, I would almost certainly act on it as long as it didn't negatively impact on my personal code of morals and ethics, out of professional respect for his accomplishments. He knows his stuff.

If some university professor in English offered me some professional advice, I would consider it, weigh up the pro's and cons and make a decision on it's merits. I would not think "well, he's got a degree and teaches in a Uni so he must be right". I may respect him personally but in relation to having gravitas to offer business advice, no, there is no respect for his opinions there if he hasn't the experience and accomplishments to back it up.

Andrewmcm

31st January 2007, 18:58

I totally agree.

This crazy idea by the Government to get more and more people into University seems ludicrous to me.

"When the average new-graduate salary is about £14,000 yet a non-graduate trainee business manager at McDonald’s can expect a starting package of £18,000, who could blame teenagers for asking whether a degree is really worth the hassle? You can still get a decently paid job without letters after your name. Just ask a journalist."

“From an employer point of view, I think there are two parts. There is the very top level of graduates, people coming out of universities with firsts. That is a powerful calling card, especially for the more intellectually demanding jobs. Outside those jobs, I am not sure what the significance of a degree is. I think it has been diluted. We are looking for people who give us a sense of commitment, who are conscientious and caring, and who are looking to make a contribution. Going to university doesn’t necessarily give you those qualities. More and more people are going to university now, and I am not sure that kids are convinced that a degree is a route to a job in the same way it once was.”

I'm actually passionate about this because if people don't start getting realistic and keep going to Uni for the sake of it, it gonna cost £500 per half an hour for a plumber (if you can get one) and you might as well buy a new car rather than get yours serviced because of the cost of the bill.
.

Excuse my editing of the pertinent sections of your post Knock-on.

Having spent a grand total of 7 years at University doing a Masters Degree and then a PhD, I've got a reasonably good handle on modern student life. And before anyone accuses me of being a student bum, I'm now I fully non-tax-dodging member of socieity!

I'm very much of the opinion that 50% of young people obtaining degrees is a very bad thing, as it devalues degrees and makes it very difficult for Graduate Employers to distinguish between candidates (much in the same way that Unis find it hard to differentiate between A-Level students). In addition, it forces some students down a PhD route to get recognised, and it leaves other areas of employment neglected. Gaining a First in a degree is by no means representative of a candidate's ability to perform in the real world, and it is often the case that such graduates struggle to adapt to the challenges of the commercial environment. Having been through graduate recruitment campaigns in the past, I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of employers do not distinguish between students who have either a First or 2.i in their degree.

I find it difficult to understand the need for people having to study subjects like Media Studies, Communications, and some of the "softer" sciences. These types of skills would be much better learned on the job, and should be pitched as apprenticeships or vocational qualifications. I would quite happily see the "New Universities" return to Polytechnics, and teach courses in this manner. As someone else said here previously, the vast majority of employers look for first degrees from the "Old Universities" such as OxBridge, Leicester, St. Andrews, Bath, Imperial and so on. Having so many Universities competing for a finite amount of government funding is extremely detrimental to the scientific sector, as funding that should be given to research and innovation in these areas is instead ponied up for the most popular degree courses - i.e. soft sciences and the arts. In 10-15 years time the UK will be very short of good scientists, and I lay the blame for that squarely at the A-Level and University entry system.

In all honesty, the tuition fee system is a nonsense. I was lucky that I came from a poor background, and did not have to pay what at the time were tuition fees (and now have top-up fees on top of that). My own personal preference would be to reinstate entrance exams into the Old Universities, and give grants to the students who pass them. That way, the students who get in will get the degree they entered without the massive debts, and the others would do the more vocational qualifications. A good example of this would be Accountancy - people study that for degrees, yet the big Graduate employers tend to prefer graduates from Maths, Physics, and Engineering background, as their numerate abilities are much more rounded than those who do Economics or Accountancy. I know accountants who did not go to uni, and are much more capable and experienced at a similar age to those who come out of unis with a degree.....

To any prospective student reading this, I'd reiterate what was said before - degrees in Science and Engineering are worthwhile, whilst English/History and so on are great if you want to become a teacher. I'd encourage anyone who wants to do teaching to go to University. Otherwise get some on-the-job experience and work your way up the ladder from there.

Average graduate salary is £14k? That seems terribly low to me. I'd like to see where he got his information from in that report.

Knock-on

31st January 2007, 19:08

Put so much better than I could ever word it. Thanks Andrew.

Andrewmcm

31st January 2007, 19:11

See, those 7 years were of some use then!!!

Knock-on

1st February 2007, 01:25

See, those 7 years were of some use then!!!

I totally admire a good education and am in awe to a degree (one of those pun things again)
;)

Thanks. If someone listens to your advice, then this thread has actually made a difference.

Who said these forums are useless.

Larry

BDunnell

1st February 2007, 12:51

Depends on what you mean by respect. Respect for them personally; of course not. However, you have to respect their success even if you don't agree with their methods or morals.

I would say 'recognise' their success rather than 'respect'.

If Sir Philip Green offered me professional advice, I would almost certainly act on it as long as it didn't negatively impact on my personal code of morals and ethics, out of professional respect for his accomplishments. He knows his stuff.

If some university professor in English offered me some professional advice, I would consider it, weigh up the pro's and cons and make a decision on it's merits. I would not think "well, he's got a degree and teaches in a Uni so he must be right". I may respect him personally but in relation to having gravitas to offer business advice, no, there is no respect for his opinions there if he hasn't the experience and accomplishments to back it up.

I would treat the advice of both in exactly the same way.

Hotbikerchic33

3rd February 2007, 08:58

if your clever enough to go to uni then yes you should go! :D

Drew

5th February 2007, 01:29

I've heard that going to Uni in America (for an American) is much more expensive, how does it all work exactly?

Do you have to pay up front, do you get loans to pay for it etc ect?

agwiii

5th February 2007, 01:37

Are you a good student? Do you have good study habbits? Can you afford it, either using cash or borrowing money? Do you know what you want to study, and will it bring clients to your door, or require that you be an employee? If the answers are yes, then by all means, go!

agwiii

5th February 2007, 01:41

I've heard that going to Uni in America (for an American) is much more expensive, how does it all work exactly?

Do you have to pay up front, do you get loans to pay for it etc ect?

We have several tiers of schools. The Community Colleges will take anybody with a high school diploma. They are inexpensive and offer an A.A. or an A.S. The state Universities are more selective, but most will accept transfers from 3.0 or better students with A.A. or B.A. Private schools are different. If they have a huge endowment, such as our Ivy League Schools, it's highly competitive and expensive. Some private schools need the tuition dollars, and will take anything that is breathing and can pay. Finally, we have growing online Universities. Some are very good, accreditied, etc., while others are simply diploma mills without any standards.

Drew

6th February 2007, 13:37

We have several tiers of schools. The Community Colleges will take anybody with a high school diploma. They are inexpensive and offer an A.A. or an A.S. The state Universities are more selective, but most will accept transfers from 3.0 or better students with A.A. or B.A. Private schools are different. If they have a huge endowment, such as our Ivy League Schools, it's highly competitive and expensive. Some private schools need the tuition dollars, and will take anything that is breathing and can pay. Finally, we have growing online Universities. Some are very good, accreditied, etc., while others are simply diploma mills without any standards.

Oh ok I see, thanks. Much more confusing than the system here :)

MrJan

6th February 2007, 22:42

I'm going to wade in here with my two cents having not read anything that has already been posted, mainly because I'm lazy.

I don't think that having a degree is a useful qualification, most people would be better off with a HND or HNC which shows that they can do the work, not just know the theory of the work like with a degree. I've got a degree that even after the first year of my course I thought I wouldn't use, I just carried on because i didn't know what else to do. Sure enough I now work in an industrial plumbing and heating stockists which bears no relation to my Journalism degree.

However, a lot of people do seem to assume that having a degree means that you are clever, I can assure you that it isn't always true, many of the people that think I'm clever have a lot more common sense and world knowledge than me.

Also Uni is way cool. I spent 3 years doing nothing and then getting drunk and now I'm 'an educated man' it's sweet.
Again on the downside though, I have a rather substansial debt (even if it is a fair way below the average) and I didn't even have to face the top up fees scheme.

In the end it's up to the individual. Some people will want a theoretically led course, others are more hands on. Also some people will be happy to live at home whereas others will want to fly the nest and live it up for a while. I'd recommend it for the lifestyle, not the qualification but then I'm quite lazy andenjoy getting drunk so a degree was definately the best way to go.

Anyway enough rambling from me, make up your own mind :)