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93VTEC
24th June 2008, 14:57
Jackie Stewart has brought up a great point. Why is FIA always messing with McLaren more so than any other team?

Why can Kimmi drive with a lose part at 300km/h that can potentially kill someone, yet McLaren gets nabbed (Lewis) for technically avoiding an accident? When will they stop? Why is FIA not consistent?

F1boat
24th June 2008, 15:00
McLaren fans love to ignore things like the crane in Nurburgring last year or the Kimi penalty in Monaco.
Of course, it is easier to explain in that way why the team is losing. On the other hand, BMW doesn't need such excuses and maybe that's why in terms of points they are closer to Ferrari.
About Jackie, he is undoubtedly a great driver, but his hatred to Max is legenadary. To me he is biased.

ioan
24th June 2008, 15:06
Because McLaren and their fans are victimizing themselves instead of trying to stay out of trouble?!

It's not like they are the only ones to get penalties.

I bet there are still people who believe it was Kimi's fault that Lewy ran into his car, there were a few with such theories around here.

Everyone get's a penalty when it's deserved. Show me a team that does not get penalties, there is no such.

yodasarmpit
24th June 2008, 15:09
To be honest, other than the fine last year these things tend to balance out over the season.
Like Ioan says, other teams have suffered penalties also, not just McLaren.

ArrowsFA1
24th June 2008, 15:17
I suspect it may just seem as if McLaren are being punished more at the moment. The combination of Stepneygate, Maxgate and the Hamilton factor is a potent one for the media.

As a highly respected, and still very active, participant in F1 Jackie Stewart is often asked to comment on various aspects of F1. It's something he does anyway as a representative of RBS (see http://www.rbssport.com/f1.html), but as a 3xWDC, former team owner, and BRDC President among many other things his views carry the weight of experience. However, they are just his opinions.

p.s. it would be fun to see a league table of penalties. Who has received the most? :D
p.p.s can you get that kind of info under the Freedom of Information Act? :D

SGWilko
24th June 2008, 15:46
McLaren fans love to ignore things like the crane in Nurburgring last year

What crane?

gravity
24th June 2008, 15:49
McLaren fans complain about the fines they get handed. All of them are legitimate fines. The problem with being handed a fine is that the guilty party says, "But he did it and he got away with it!"
Remember when MS was racing for Renault? He was everyone's worst enemy. He had to fight against the FIA, even race under appeal on occasion. *It was Williams who seemed to be the flavour of the month at the time
Things only calmed down after he moved to Ferrari.
It reminds me of an old joke...
A man was driving down the main road, slower than the cars around him, but still over the speed limit. A policeman jumped out from behind a bush to pull him over.
"But officer? I wasn't the only one speeding!"
"Sir, have you ever gone fishing?" replied the officer.

SGWilko
24th June 2008, 15:54
McLaren fans complain about the fines they get handed. All of them are legitimate fines. The problem with being handed a fine is that the guilty party says, "But he did it and he got away with it!"
Remember when MS was racing for Renault? He was everyone's worst enemy. He had to fight against the FIA, even race under appeal on occasion. *It was Williams who seemed to be the flavour of the month at the time
Things only calmed down after he moved to Ferrari.
It reminds me of an old joke...
A man was driving down the main road, slower than the cars around him, but still over the speed limit. A policeman jumped out from behind a bush to pull him over.
"But officer? I wasn't the only one speeding!"
"Sir, have you ever gone fishing?" replied the officer.

Man, that copper sure must be able to run quick. Do you think he carries his tackle as well? :confused:

Garry Walker
24th June 2008, 16:22
Why is McLaren picked on so much


That`s what happens to people and organizations that break the law/regulations.

ArrowsFA1
24th June 2008, 17:03
Nigel Roebuck's (cue the insults) French GP report (http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2008/06/23/grand-prix-special-france-by-nigel-roebuck/) raised a chuckle:

Thus, the McLarens lined up 10th and 13th. Some teams seem positively to attract bad luck, do they not? Still, Ferrari weren’t complaining...
:laugh:

leopard
25th June 2008, 06:47
Because Life is a Rollercoaster :)

Valve Bounce
25th June 2008, 07:31
Jackie Stewart has brought up a great point. Why is FIA always messing with McLaren more so than any other team?

Why can Kimmi drive with a lose part at 300km/h that can potentially kill someone, yet McLaren gets nabbed (Lewis) for technically avoiding an accident? When will they stop? Why is FIA not consistent?

God!! :rolleyes: another BS statement. I seem to remember, not so long ago, Kimi going around with his bloody wheel about to shake loose, and he wasn't stopped.

When was Lewis nabbed for avoiding an accident? when he was lifted back onto the track by a JCB crane?

Valve Bounce
25th June 2008, 07:34
What crane?

The JCB crane that lifted him back onto the track from the gravel trap. And please do not quote the furphy that the JCB wasn't a crane - lifting devices like the JCB are classified as cranes.

Valve Bounce
25th June 2008, 07:37
I bet there are still people who believe it was Kimi's fault that Lewy ran into his car, there were a few with such theories around here.

.

LINK PLEASE!! :p :

ShiftingGears
25th June 2008, 08:27
God!! :rolleyes: another BS statement. I seem to remember, not so long ago, Kimi going around with his bloody wheel about to shake loose, and he wasn't stopped.

When was Lewis nabbed for avoiding an accident? when he was lifted back onto the track by a JCB crane?

Valve took the bait :p :

Valve Bounce
25th June 2008, 11:04
Valve took the bait :p :

:(

Robinho
25th June 2008, 15:00
the teams at the front undoubtedly attract more attention - probably in both numbers of investigations or penalties and the focus on them. at the moment it seems that McLaren are attracting more than their fair share of attention, but as i posted previously, i'd say they have used up any credit they had with the FIA and where before there might be some leeway or they might get the benefit of the doubt, now there is none.

it will take time for McLaren to build up credibility with the stewards again, hence, why on the whole, they are not making too much noise or protesting decisions.

these things are often cyclical and also unrealted too, and it may be that Ferarri, BMW or someone else picks up a spate of penalties or drive throughs, i don't think McLaren are necessarily being picked on, but probably quite rightly, being dealt with no leniency. and i say that as a McLaren fan - to date none of the penalties are completley unjustified, perhaps a little harsh in isloation, but the team have some bridge building to do so IMO will have to suck it up for a while

trumperZ06
25th June 2008, 17:57
;) Two words.... MAX MOLSEY !!!

Tazio
25th June 2008, 18:22
If you take into consideration what was done to Ferrari after 2004,
most sane people would say that what they did to level the playing field was much worse than
any transgression against McLaren. Ferrari was stripped of their competitive advantage for the sole reason
that they had gotten the formula right! Instead of telling the rest of the field "you need to up your game"
they changed the rules so radically as to take away the advantage that Ferrari worked so hard to achieve

F1boat
26th June 2008, 08:15
Well said, Tazio. McLaren just moan and whine too much.

SGWilko
26th June 2008, 12:01
The JCB crane that lifted him back onto the track from the gravel trap. And please do not quote the furphy that the JCB wasn't a crane - lifting devices like the JCB are classified as cranes.

Errrrr, that was humour - in response to a post about McLaren fans being in denial. :D

Oh dear, another charisma bypass operation required, further burdening the NHS? ;)

SGWilko
26th June 2008, 12:03
Valve took the bait :p :

Valve has a wicked sense of humour, sadly, at present, it appears to have.....


.....gone west. :(

mstillhere
27th June 2008, 05:34
If you take into consideration what was done to Ferrari after 2004,
most sane people would say that what they did to level the playing field was much worse than
any transgression against McLaren. Ferrari was stripped of their competitive advantage for the sole reason
that they had gotten the formula right! Instead of telling the rest of the field "you need to up your game"
they changed the rules so radically as to take away the advantage that Ferrari worked so hard to achieve

I strongly second that

ioan
27th June 2008, 09:17
I strongly second that

+1

SGWilko
27th June 2008, 11:27
If you take into consideration what was done to Ferrari after 2004,
most sane people would say that what they did to level the playing field was much worse than
any transgression against McLaren. Ferrari was stripped of their competitive advantage for the sole reason
that they had gotten the formula right! Instead of telling the rest of the field "you need to up your game"
they changed the rules so radically as to take away the advantage that Ferrari worked so hard to achieve

So, Ferrari are the hard done by team are they? Rule changes to even the field have always happened, whether you agree with them or not;

Williams - early 90's in response to domination due to active ride, ABS and the soon to be implemented CVT.

Remember the Lotus with skirts, that Williams perfected - that was outlawed.

So it is not just Ferrari that have suffered. :rolleyes:

ArrowsFA1
27th June 2008, 11:32
Rule changes to even the field have always happened, whether you agree with them or not
Exactly :up: Ferrari did ok from the change to 1.5 ltr engines in 1961 didn't they.

Tazio
27th June 2008, 14:48
So, Ferrari are the hard done by team are they? Rule changes to even the field have always happened, whether you agree with them or not;

Williams - early 90's in response to domination due to active ride, ABS and the soon to be implemented CVT.

Remember the Lotus with skirts, that Williams perfected - that was outlawed.

So it is not just Ferrari that have suffered. :rolleyes: You have completely distorted my post. It was a counterpoint to the suggestion that Mclaren are the one's suffering an inordinate amount of persecution in recent history. Mine was a simple example of why the title of this thread is simply not true!
Best
V

Tazio
27th June 2008, 16:39
It is this type of transparence that will bring McLaren back to its former, tidy reputation!
I applaud them :up:

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/5098-McLaren+reveals+truth+behind+Kovalainen+crash.html

Knock-on
27th June 2008, 17:27
It is this type of transparence that will bring McLaren back to its former, tidy reputation!
I applaud them :up:

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/5098-McLaren+reveals+truth+behind+Kovalainen+crash.html

Can't seem to access it :(

Tazio
27th June 2008, 18:27
Can't seem to access it :(

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/5098-McLaren+reveals+truth+behind+Kovalainen+crash.html
Hmmm, It works for me!
The text:

McLaren reveals truth behind Kovalainen crash
Thursday 26 June at 15:55 : A meticulous joint investigation into the cause of Heikki Kovalainen's Barcelona crash has finally got to the bottom of why the McLaren driver was pitched into the barriers during the Spanish grand prix.

It was originally speculated that the Finn's accident was caused by a sudden, catastrophic, structural failing of the left-front wheel rim.

McLaren chief executive Martin Whitmarsh later added that, based on initial trackside evidence and speculation, stones or debris coming into contact with the wheel could have triggered the structural damage.

At the same time, an exhaustive investigation, in collaboration with wheel supplier Enkei and the FIA technical team, was launched.

"The investigation not only involved thorough scrutiny of the telemetry data and a microscopic analysis of the surviving components, but also a simulated reconstruction of the event back at the McLaren Technology Centre," Whitmarsh said at the Silverstone test this week.

He explained that the investigation showed that a central area of the rim had been left unmasked before being sprayed with lacquer -- a common practice to improve the efficiency and longevity of components.

The resulting lacquered surface significantly reduced lock-hold on the wheel rim.

This meant that the wheel and axle on Kovalainen's MP4-23 began to move apart under high cornering loads, leading to rubbing against the brake drum, fatigue, and a failure of the rim's inner lip.

"We now thoroughly understand how the failure occurred; not, as was originally reported, as a result of a wheel failure but by the incorrect application of a lacquering process which was beyond the control of our wheel supplier, Enkei, with whom we have enjoyed a fantastic relationship for more than 10 years," Whitmarsh added.

He said procedures have been put in place to ensure the incident cannot repeat.

Knock-on
27th June 2008, 18:43
I thought this was old news?

Tazio
27th June 2008, 18:54
I thought this was old news?

Perhaps it is! It's news to me! But I haven't been pounding

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Formula+One

as often as I usually do. It is listed as one of the most viewed "articles" of
the day, for whatever that is worth!

ioan
28th June 2008, 14:07
You have completely distorted my post.

That's what they do every time they don't have a valid argument! ;)

DezinerPaul
28th June 2008, 17:07
Lets see, they steal secrets, lie under oath, try to blame others for their mistakes. Lets be honest here, they have been the bullies of F1 for a very long time and deserve all they get.

DezinerPaul
28th June 2008, 17:11
I bet Merc are counting the days, to when they can get rid of Dennis and Hamilton!

Knock-on
30th June 2008, 17:32
You have completely distorted my post.


That's what they do every time they don't have a valid argument! ;)

... and in response to one of ioans posts below :D


I did post that... but you have taken that out of context. If you included it with the rest of my post, you would have seen that it refers to the diagram which followed that sentence (hence the colon), and that diagram referred to the standard composition of our atmosphere. I did not state that they do use it, nor did I state that they should use it.

Earlier in this same thread, you complained about someone misquoting you, yet you have no qualm doing that to others. Double standards? You aren't maybe an FIA official are you?

:laugh: