Spectator accident Rally of Turkey

[Oppositelock]

Anybody here from Turkey (or Belgium) who can give an update on the condition of the Belgian spectator who was hit by Sousa on SS 10?

[JAM]

Anybody here from Turkey (or Belgium) who can give an update on the condition of the Belgian spectator who was hit by Sousa on SS 10?

And anyone can explain how exactly the accident happened?

[sal]

Story in UK motorsport press says a marshal asked the guy to move three times and he refused subsequently getting hit by Sousa.

[Daniel]

Story in UK motorsport press says a marshal asked the guy to move three times and he refused subsequently getting hit by Sousa.
The worst thing about that is that the driver will still feel responsible.

[SubaruNorway]

Don't think he was hit by the car, but a big stone that came flying when Sousa went off.

[wwbroe]

Don't think he was hit by the car, but a big stone that came flying when Sousa went off.

That is right, he was hit by a stone that was projected by Sousa's car. But the driver saw it happening in his mirror, and decided to stop for that day, because he was to much in shock due to what happened, alltough it was not his fault offcourse.

[JAM]

That is right, he was hit by a stone that was projected by Sousa's car. But the driver saw it happening in his mirror, and decided to stop for that day, because he was to much in shock due to what happened, alltough it was not his fault offcourse.

I also received the press release from Red Bull, that's why we want to know the explanation from somone who was there, and we know that some people were at the place of the accident.

[JAM]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q277/otoxiep/3cdcc6e9.jpg

[Oppositelock]

The Red Bull press release in fact stated that Sousa "drove over a stone that flew and hit a spectator". That, as eyewitnesses can tell, is absolute b***. Whether it was on purpose or the RB press people just don't know what's happening inside their team is open to speculation.

The organizers press release, stating "Sousa hit a spectator", is closer to the truth, even when it somehow played down the injuries by mentioning "a broken leg and suspected head trauma".

[Daniel]

The Red Bull press release in fact stated that Sousa "drove over a stone that flew and hit a spectator". That, as eyewitnesses can tell, is absolute b***. Whether it was on purpose or the RB press people just don't know what's happening inside their team is open to speculation.

The organizers press release, stating "Sousa hit a spectator", is closer to the truth, even when it somehow played down the injuries by mentioning "a broken leg and suspected head trauma".
Was the spectator asked to move a number of times?

[JAM]

Was the spectator asked to move a number of times?


That isn't relevant.

[Daniel]

That isn't relevant.
It's VERY relevant. If the spectator was asked to move then as far as I'm concerned it's their fault they got hurt.

[Oppositelock]

It's relevant, but in a different way. When a spectator doesn't follow the instructions of a marshal it's the marshal's responsibility to inform the stage commander (hope it's the right word). If further action doen't help, the stage has to be stopped. And that's not only from a legal point of view. There's no such public opinion like "it's there own fault" when a spectator gets hurt in any kind of motorsport.

[sal]

Disclaimers on stage should warn the spectator that motorsport is dangerous and that they are ultimately responsible for their own safety and absolve the organisers etc of responsibility for their own actions. If they are stood in an area previously considered unsafe and that they also ignore the "advice" of a marshal who after all has no legal powers then again that is their decision. The choice of the official or spectator control is whether to allow the stage to run at all even if it is only one person who is the problem. From all the heat here am I detecting the faint stale whiff of litigation? If so it's a very slippery slope we face...

[cali]

But what really happened then???? Everybody has some arguements, but nobody does not know nothing for sure. If anybody has some information, please let us know too. Otherwise too much speculations.

[Daniel]

Disclaimers on stage should warn the spectator that motorsport is dangerous and that they are ultimately responsible for their own safety and absolve the organisers etc of responsibility for their own actions. If they are stood in an area previously considered unsafe and that they also ignore the "advice" of a marshal who after all has no legal powers then again that is their decision. The choice of the official or spectator control is whether to allow the stage to run at all even if it is only one person who is the problem. From all the heat here am I detecting the faint stale whiff of litigation? If so it's a very slippery slope we face...

I was thinking that too. If everything was alright and sorted you'd probably hear about it. Something similar happened in Australia at some stage. Someone got hit in the head with a rock and sued the rally and the spectators were then put in pens and put miles away from the road. Of course a balance between safety and spectacle must be achieved and I don't know the details of the incident in Australia so I can't comment on it with a great degree of certainty but if there is litigation here it could have a significant impact upon rallying as a whole in Europe.

[Daniel]

It's relevant, but in a different way. When a spectator doesn't follow the instructions of a marshal it's the marshal's responsibility to inform the stage commander (hope it's the right word). If further action doen't help, the stage has to be stopped. And that's not only from a legal point of view. There's no such public opinion like "it's there own fault" when a spectator gets hurt in any kind of motorsport.

I don't know about that. There will be witnesses and so on and depending on what happened a court would decide that the spectator is at fault or not. It's not like this happens often at WRC events. It also depends if the marshal had a radio or any way of communicating this to the stage commander. If the spectator was ignoring the marshal and there are witnesses to this and he had no way of stopping the stage then it's 150% the spectators fault and he should pay the driver and marshal damages for being an idiot. We need to stop this whole "It's someone elses fault" mentality and take responsibility for our own actions.

[Larry_Japan]

Sousa's car (not a rock) left the road at speed, near the SS start, and hit a spectator, severely injuring both his (spectator's) legs. Current condition unknown.

[N.O.T]

well the crew is never at fault when an accident like this happens...if the spectator sits in a bad location then its his fault and if he sits in a safe place then he must be very very unlucky to get hit...in either case the driver is innocent. Props to mr Sousa who stopped his rally to see the condition of the spectator, hope he fully recovers and continues to follow rallying.

[Saabaru]

The spectator knew what he was doing, why is this even an issue? I have spectated a number of events and enjoy getting close to the action, but I always find some sort of barrier to protect myself (trees, dirt embankments, stone walls, traffic barriers, ect..). Why would anyone even consider it being anyone’s fault but the spectator's own? This is just Darwin’s theory of natural selection at work.

[N.O.T]

This is just Darwin’s theory of natural selection at work.

Great comment i fully agree !!! :D :D :D :D

[bowler]

The spectator knew what he was doing, why is this even an issue? I have spectated a number of events and enjoy getting close to the action, but I always find some sort of barrier to protect myself (trees, dirt embankments, stone walls, traffic barriers, ect..). Why would anyone even consider it being anyone’s fault but the spectator's own? This is just Darwin’s theory of natural selection at work.

I agree with you 100%, but sadly our society doesn't work that way today.

[gloomyDAY]

I agree with you 100%, but sadly our society doesn't work that way today.True. Some pussy is going to cry and the WRC will have black eye as a result.

[JAM]

You are missing the point, and the point is, "how this accident happened".

Acording to the team PR distributed on Saturday, Bernardo Sousa said "200m after the start i saw a stone flyying and hitting a spectator. As i saw the person falling i stopd immediately to see what's happening". Is not easy neither very possible that a driver see the stones flying during a stage... a lot of people doubt about that. On monday some persons that were on Turkey said that the story was different. I knew the story since Tuesday, and wanted to confirm, because my source could not speak about that. That's why i asked if someone was there.

Yesterday a portuguese magazine published an interview with Bernardo. Here is the main part: "200 after the start, there was a right and and a left corner. On the second one the rear slide and hit a stone, that send the front of the car to the out of the corner and hit, with the side, a spectator that was misplaced"

Two different versions to the same situation. Nobody understant why Red Bull lay about this on the PR from staurday. As you see even on Belgium people think that was a stone.

And one more thing, my source said that the spectator was not misplaced and that was not a forbiden area, it was only an unhappy situation, to the spectator and to Bernardo. Of course that organizers want to save their skin, as usually. When Armindo Araújo had the accident with the 3 photografers on the shakedown of Rally of Portugal in 2007, ACP acussed them of being in a fordiden area, but nobody, that was there ,saw a plate or something that identified that zone as forbiden... The plate was on the floor covered by grass!

[kleisj]

In any case this is an issue of the organizers. If the spectator was in a place were he was allowed to be there is not his fault.
But to tell you the truth when I go to spectate at a rally I always see and try to forecast the natural way of a car's course in case of getting out of control in order to avoid being in the way... Even if the place that I am standing is allowed for spectators. I always try to be extra safe. But they are some places that you cannot be like after a high speed jump or some high speed turns which are places spectators love to watch.

Bottom line is that even if someone doesn't warn us is ourselves that we first have to watch out and even warn others.

Final point is that the driver cannot be held responsible in any case since he/she is driving on the absolute limit within a specific route called special stage. And I am saying that because drivers who have been involved in accidents involving spectators have been legally accused and prosecuted. I think only the fact of a driver carrying the psychological effects of an accident of this kind is never easy (and for some impossible) to overcome! I find it complete wrong and stupid to prosecute a rally driver for having an accident within a special stage of an event.

[JAM]

I'd like to add that i never see the driver as a guilty of an accident involving spectators. The drivers are there to drive as fast as possible, that the goal, the accidents are thing that happen and are part of the bussiness.

The spectators must take precautions, because the total safety in a rally stage is almost impossible.

In this case of Bernardo Sousa the main thing was to discover the truth, i never had in mind to blame him by the accident. He is a excelent driver with lots of potential. In the next years you'll hear to talk a lot about him!

[kleisj]

And to take it a bit further away the blame on driver is completely opposite on the perception and rationale of rallying since the first idea of going rallying (and other racing forms) is to drive fast on a safe environment. If he is prosecuted then for doing that, imagine what that means on the national amateur drivers who participate in a rally with the limited instead of the big budgets just trying to do what they love best.

[pino]

There seems to be a lot of confusio surrounding the situation, but whatever, I hope the spectator recovers and learns from it (whatever happened) and that it doesnøt affect the driver in the future :up:

(J4MIE :p : )

[Saabaru]

Since when did we stop holding idiots accountable for there own actions?( never mind stupid question, should have been “why&#8221 ;) If you love the sport stand up for it and stop trying to undermine the organizers. Sheesh guys, if I understand it right the guy was standing on the outside of a fast right-left corner that was somewhat like an open chicane with large stones littering the sides of the road. That has “Danger, Danger, Cars sliding wide through the second curve” writhen all over it.

[bt52b]

In most countries whether the spectator was standing in the right place or the wrong place will not matter much when the legal process starts. A spectator was hit, the spectator will get $€£$€£$€£. How much depends on the country.

Its something the WRC needs to take more seriously.

The Isle of Man, probably has the best laws for dealing with spectators. Each marshal is made a Temporary Constable, complete with Warrant Card. At the recent TT bike races, two spectators were fined £500 for stealing safety signs.

[bt52b]

delete

[Mctank]

Sousa slipped on the gravel in the left corner and went slightly offroad. There he hit a rock and the spectator who had just moved to that position.

He was in a bad spot and must have known that, because other people said that he tried to go somewhere else, but the car was allready coming (200 mtr after the start). It wasn't an official forbidden area and there was certainly no marshall telling him to move.

The spectator is still in the hospital in Turkey with broken legs and a head injury.

[WRCfan]

Maybe he made a bad choice to move to another spot in between cars, but you need to make your choices VERY carefully. He has no one to blame but himself.

In regards to prohibted areas and designated areas. You need to use your brain as they can't line the whole stage with damn tape so if an area is not taped off doesnt mean it's safe and ok to stand there.

Hope the spectator is OK but at least this will have woken him the h*ll up!