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CNR
17th June 2008, 02:08
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6256247/editorial/what-if-ford-had-bought-ferrari/index.html




Almost exactly 45 years ago this month, Henry Ford II thought he had a deal. Nine months of negotiation were over, and on July 4, 1963, Hank the Deuce was planning to be in Maranello signing a $10 million deal with Enzo Ferrari that would give Ford Motor Company a half share in the storied Italian sports-car maker. As Time reported in its May 24 issue of that year: "To mark the partnership, the two companies have already started design work on a new, prestigious 'Ferrari-Ford,' which will have a powerful 12-cylinder engine in a Ford sports chassis."






http://image.motortrend.com/f/editorial/what-if-ford-had-bought-ferrari/10006645+cr1+re0+ar1/ford-vs-ferrari.jpg
The deal never happened. The 'Ferrari-Ford' was never built. Enzo Ferrari pulled the pin on the deal at the last minute, leaving Ford high and dry.

We all know what happened next: An enraged Henry authorized the development of the Ford GT40, with the express goal of humiliating Enzo's blood-red sports racers in the Le Mans 24 Hour race. Which it duly did, four times in a row from 1966.

Valve Bounce
17th June 2008, 03:51
It must have been something ioan said. :(

maxu05
17th June 2008, 05:30
That was in 1963, when Ford had some decent cars. Nowadays, a Ferarri built by ford would fall apart :laugh:

leopard
17th June 2008, 08:52
This is awesome if true.

Mark
17th June 2008, 09:22
Of course it's true, it's well documented.

Valve Bounce
17th June 2008, 11:17
Some great footage can be seen in the French Film "A Man and a Woman". It was a great film also.

Roamy
17th June 2008, 17:13
puke this would be like somalia buying belgium

trumperZ06
17th June 2008, 18:36
Henry the Duce... was PO'ed when Enzo weaseled out on his agreement to sell Ferrari to Ford... at the very last minute.

After the sale was agreed to...

Enzo demanded control (and ownership) of Ferrari racing.

Henry the Duce left the meeting red-faced and told his inner circle to...

"Beat that Son-Of-a-Bitch... no matter what it CO$T "!!!

Now fast forward to Ford's latest escapade... financing and then taking over Jackie Stewart's F-1 effort (became team Jaguar), and we see an entirely different Ford management committment.

Maybe if Rahal had stayed... Jaguar might have been more sucessful.

Mad_Hatter
17th June 2008, 19:24
There would never have a GT40.

Bagwan
17th June 2008, 19:27
There would never have a GT40.

It might have been a FGT40 .

BDunnell
17th June 2008, 21:59
It must have been something ioan said. :(

:laugh:

Ironically, I very much doubt that a lot of modern-day Ferrari 'fans' have the slightest idea about this story, or ATS, or Ferrari's constant threats to withdraw from F1, or exactly how rubbish the F1 team was at times.

What if Ford had bought Ferrari? Hard to say, because it's so hypothetical. It could have had repercussions relating to Ford's F1 involvement with Cosworth, but do we know enough to have an idea of what Ford would have done with Ferrari? Had the deal gone ahead despite Enzo's desire to keep the racing team, would Ford have subsumed Ferrari or allowed it to keep its identity? Let's not forget that manufacturers then wouldn't have been as concerned as they are now about branding, and having Ford-owned Ferraris competing against Ford-engined Lotuses wouldn't have been considered overly problematic.

trumperZ06
17th June 2008, 22:07
;) Ummmm... if memory serves, the Lola GT40 chassis was already conceived when Ford decided to take on Ferrari in GT Sports Car racing.

Ford first tried running their small block V-8 (the Indy V-8 with dual overhead cams)... but had reliability problems @ LeMans....

so Ford Racing stuffed a good ole Holman/Moody NA$CAR big block V-8 into the GT40.

If you look at the roof (not sure it's on all GT40's)... you can see a Gurney bubble... so that Dan could fit inside the car wearing his helment.

We have the same sort of "bubble" on Corvette's Z06's.

Lots of interesting history with the Ford GT40 saga...

for one...

GT40 got it's name from sitting 40 inches above the ground. Ford's latest GT car would correctly be called a GT43.

ioan
18th June 2008, 12:54
:laugh:

Ironically, I very much doubt that a lot of modern-day Ferrari 'fans' have the slightest idea about this story, or ATS, or Ferrari's constant threats to withdraw from F1, or exactly how rubbish the F1 team was at times.

You'd be surprised to see how much some Ferrari fans know about the history of Ferrari! ;)

ioan
18th June 2008, 12:56
puke this would be like somalia buying belgium

:rotflmao: :up:

AAReagles
20th June 2008, 20:32
It must have been something ioan said. :(
:laugh:




That was in 1963, when Ford had some decent cars. Nowadays, a Ferarri built by ford would fall apart.

... as well as laying off workers and deservingly sinking itself into a slow death of bankruptcy.

No Italian heritage here, but all the same I'm glad Ferrari remained in the hands of a manufacter competitor (FIAT) from its country of origin.

D-Type
20th June 2008, 22:26
Ford were desperate to shed a 'fuddy-duddy' image and appeal to a youunger generation of owners. It was all a part of a big plan: the Mustang; Indianapolis; the Capri; entries in rallying, eg in addition to Ford GB competing regularly, they entered a team of Lincoln-Mercury Comets in the 1964 Safari; Falcons and Galaxies in touring car racing.

So had they managed to buy Ferrari they would probably have built on Ferrari's racing successes by throwing dollars at them and branding the GP and sports cars as 'Ford Ferraris', or Ferrari-Fords'. A bit like they used the Ghia name.

They would have produced a road car with similar branding targeted at the US 'youth' market. It might have been a badge-engineered Mustang or a mass-productionized Ferrari like the Fiat Dino. Or maybe even a top of the range Mustang with a Ferrari V12 under the bonnet. A prancing Mustang?

I think the Cobra would probably have happened anyway as it was originally developed to beat the Corvette in US domestic sports car racing.

A Can-Am car combining Ferrari chassis and racecar know-how with a Ford V8 would have been interesting. I think that Ferrari with funding would have made a better job of it than Lola.

Cosworth is an interesting one. The funding of the FVA and DFV was a Ford (GB) initiative, no doubt with Detroit permission. But if the Ford-badged Ferrari was winning and putting the Ford name in front of their potential customers there would have been no point.

trumperZ06
21st June 2008, 03:37
Ford were desperate to shed a 'fuddy-duddy' image and appeal to a youunger generation of owners. It was all a part of a big plan: the Mustang; Indianapolis; the Capri; entries in rallying, eg in addition to Ford GB competing regularly, they entered a team of Lincoln-Mercury Comets in the 1964 Safari; Falcons and Galaxies in touring car racing.

;) Ummm... the 1965 Mustang evolved from Ford's economy falcon.. it started out as a "Chick's car"... Lee Iocoa and Ford were astonished at it's success.



So had they managed to buy Ferrari they would probably have built on Ferrari's racing successes by throwing dollars at them and branding the GP and sports cars as 'Ford Ferraris', or Ferrari-Fords'. A bit like they used the Ghia name.

;) I think Ford's plan was to keep Ferrari as a stand alone... seperate brand. Enzo... wanting to retain control of Ferrari Racing torpedo'ed Ford's aquisition.

Henry the Duce was so PO'ed that he ordered Ford to beat that "Son-of-a-Bitch... no matter the CO$T".


They would have produced a road car with similar branding targeted at the US 'youth' market. It might have been a badge-engineered Mustang or a mass-productionized Ferrari like the Fiat Dino. Or maybe even a top of the range Mustang with a Ferrari V12 under the bonnet. A prancing Mustang?

:dozey: I have never read anything like this... do you have a source?



I think the Cobra would probably have happened anyway as it was originally developed to beat the Corvette in US domestic sports car racing.

:dozey: Shelby approached GM first with the Cobra idea... and was turned down. He then met with Iocoa (Ford), who jumped at the scheme... enabling Ford to compete with GM's Corvette on the cheap.


A Can-Am car combining Ferrari chassis and racecar know-how with a Ford V8 would have been interesting. I think that Ferrari with funding would have made a better job of it than Lola.

Ummm... Cam Am (at least here in the States) came later, as I recall.



Cosworth is an interesting one. The funding of the FVA and DFV was a Ford (GB) initiative, no doubt with Detroit permission. But if the Ford-badged Ferrari was winning and putting the Ford name in front of their potential customers there would have been no point.


;) Ford GB was asked to fund Cosworth... by Chapman as I recall, Ford USA funded the V-8... branding it the Ford/Cosworth, the single most successful engine ever in Formula One.


Ioan thinks (delusionally)... that he's the Ferrari expert, you might want to check with him !!!





Trumper

D-Type
22nd June 2008, 21:54
This is all off the top of my head and i'm open to correction on any points of fact. But Ford were trying to change their image.

trumperZ06
22nd June 2008, 22:42
This is all off the top of my head and i'm open to correction on any points of fact. But Ford were trying to change their image.

:D O K.... I'll buy that.

;) History has a way of clouding our memory.


:s mokin: Trumper

markabilly
22nd June 2008, 23:37
If ferrari had been bought out, way back then, they would have slid off into being a mere brand name for a big corporation sooner or later, and F1 and racing would have been left without a consistent racing legend that extends up to present time
Probably about 1970 or so, without Enzo insisting on control, somewhere around there, Ford would have pulled back big time (as they actually did) and Ferrari would have sufferred with all the rest

D28
24th June 2008, 23:38
If the deal had transpired, it would have been a disaster for both companies. Ford's subsequent record in acquiring small elite companies is not that positive, think of Ghia, DeTomaso and recently Stewart Grand Prix. The cultural and business differences would have been too great to overcome. Imagine Dearborn executives trying to deal with the mercurial Mauro Forghieri, they had enough problems negotiating with Carrol Shelby.The partnership and eventual majority deal with FIAT was perfect for Ferrari.FIAT supplied needed discipline and capital into the production works, while allowing Enzo to indulge in his racing activities. After about 1973, even FIAT had to bring some order into racing team; and dictate an end to every conceivable form of competition, with a concentration on F1. Since 1975, this has resulted in 13 World Constructers titles for Ferrari. Although LeMans has not been a factory priority for 37 years, quite a few GT class wins have come their way with privateers, most recently a 1-4 placing in GT2 last week.FIAT also benefited from the partership through access to Ferrari engines for their Lancia rally team.Finally Ford benefited from their deal with Cosworth, redulting in 175 F1 wins for Ford badged engines. This in addition to numerous CART wins and rally victories. Fans enjoyed the golden years of endurance racing, the so called Ford-Ferrari wars. Tifosi tend to think of these 1966-69 LeMans struggles as battles; the war goes on (see last week), only Ford has left the field.

futuretiger9
24th September 2008, 22:14
Walter Hayes once said of the Ford/Ferrari negotiations that the mixture of popcorn and pasta did not prove very appetizing.

One can speculate which of the two brand names would have represented the merged company in F1. It would have been unthinkable for the Ferraris simply to be re-badged as Fords, so would the Ferraris have been pulled out to clear the path for the Ford DFV? Was the point of the GT40 and DFV programmes to match some of the prestige of Ferrari? The motto seems to have been, if you can't beat 'em, take 'em over...

Don Capps
17th February 2011, 03:37
;) Ummmm... if memory serves, the Lola GT40 chassis was already conceived when Ford decided to take on Ferrari in GT Sports Car racing.

GT40 got it's name from sitting 40 inches above the ground. Ford's latest GT car would correctly be called a GT43.


There would never have a GT40.

There never was a "GT40" -- there was the "Ford GT" with the "GT40" being something dreamed up by journalists and PR folks, it never being the official designation of the cars.

Your memory did not serve you well, there never being a "Lola GT40" -- you are thinking of the Lola Mk. 6 which used a Ford engine and later a Chevrolet when Mecom bought one.


Walter Hayes once said of the Ford/Ferrari negotiations that the mixture of popcorn and pasta did not prove very appetizing.

It was a bad idea to begin with and one that puzzled many at the time, the real factor in the entire affair being that Ferrari was trying to get Agnelli of Fiat to increase his stipend to Ferrari. It was all doomed from the start and Ford II was nowhere as angry or emotional as the journalists have portrayed, this being more journalistic hyperbole than reality. He was, however, upset at the way Ferrari handled the termination of the negotiations. Basically, Ford simply went with a plan that was already being developed to support the "Total Performance" program that meant Ford spread its efforts over a variety of forms of motor sports.

The failure of the Ferrari-Ford negotiations eventually served the purposes of each party involved, Ferrari getting an increase in his stipend and also having an audit of his operations done by Ford that proved beneficial as he worked the deal that eventually saw Fiat buy the road car operation several years later. As for Ford, it was a car carrying the Ford name that eventually won Le Mans, not a "Ferrari-Ford" or "Ford-Ferrari."