Ban split times? [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Comal

15th June 2008, 05:01

Surely if there was a ban on split times it would be more exciting - drivers would have to drive at 10/10's all the time instead of just doing enough to stay ahead by monitoring splits?
Thoughts?

wwbroe

15th June 2008, 07:09

It would surely be a good idea to ban the split times for the drivers, but i would like to keep them for us, who are folowing the rallys live. For sure they would have to drive at 100%, alltough tactics would still be possible but it would be more difficult because they don't know exactly how much time they have to loose compared to another driver. :rolleyes:

jonkka

15th June 2008, 07:34

I say once again:

Banning splits would be impossible to police. Teams can measure splits easily and figure out some clandestine way to communicate those into cars. Ban would not solve anything.

cosmicpanda

15th June 2008, 09:45

I think that's taking a technological step backwards, and it probably wouldn't stop tactics as they'd just guess a bit more.

Zico

15th June 2008, 11:20

Near impossible to police..
The only thing that can really be done to stop drivers holding back, driving to splits for road position is being discussed on another thread.

J4MIE

15th June 2008, 12:13

Yep I'd like to see this as well but the teams would do it another way. And anyway, they can use the time for the stage and talk on the phone to tell them how much to slow down by....

Daniel

15th June 2008, 12:39

I agree. It's spoilt this season for a lot of people. Insta-dq for anyone who is found to be communicating this to the drivers be it over the radio or via pit boards or people on the road near the end of a stage. All communications to the car should be logged and analysed accordingly.

N.O.T

15th June 2008, 13:15

Ban tactics maybe ???? ... the clowns over at F1 managed to stop team orders...it cannot be that hard.

gloomyDAY

15th June 2008, 15:00

Ban tactics maybe ???? ... the clowns over at F1 managed to stop team orders...it cannot be that hard.Tell that to Nick Heidfeld.

Anyway, banning split times is hard to enforce.
I just wish the WRC would go back to the days of kicking ass, period.

igi

15th June 2008, 15:57

Much easier would be, that they change start positions after every loop (or service), not only at te end of the day. Or just go back to the old system. Althrough not ideal, it was much better than current one.

wrc_flipper

15th June 2008, 16:12

Don't think you would be able to ban split times - or in my option want to.

The drivers and teams use them to great effect and if they were banned then they would send people out to get unofficial times and still do the same thing
(no harm in a "spectator" phoning in times & advising on stage conditions - I've done it!)

It also makes rallying better as teams "drive to the splits" to ensure that are improving on other competitors and step up the pace (or loose it) when needed.

Also - what the hell would you lot talk about during the stages!?

Flip

PLuto

15th June 2008, 16:23

If you ban all communication between crew and team during stage (also split times), it should help more. And if teams should have people on the stage, who will show the driver sign with time? Why not, if the drivers found them on the stage :)

ste898

15th June 2008, 18:41

Spilt times were another silly rule brought in.......

They should be banned along with fancy steering wheel gearchange and electronic aids?

Daniel

15th June 2008, 19:32

Spilt times were another silly rule brought in.......

They should be banned along with fancy steering wheel gearchange and electronic aids?
Errr split times are not a rule.

COD

15th June 2008, 19:34

ste898

15th June 2008, 19:38

Errr split times are not a rule.

Typical of you Daniel OK very sorry its not a rule then big deal!!!!

savvas

16th June 2008, 07:18

banning splits may also lead to increased employment costs ?

wrc_flipper

16th June 2008, 08:58

I don't think it would be too hard to police. All communications go via FIA/ISC plane, so it would be easy to ban comm's between team and drivers during stages. Also with in-car cameras it is easy to police that no-one shows "pit-boards".

I support the ban!

Could always black out the windows of the cars! ;)

MrJan

17th June 2008, 11:42

I think that you could at least stop the times being beamed into the car to be read by the crew. We saw pit boards ocassionally back in about 2000 (???) with Ford and Carlos.

At the moment it is ridiculous how drivers are able to slow and I think is sneaky and not really in the spirit of rallying. Personally I think if you take all the rules that have come in during the last 10 years then we might be back somewhere nearer to what we, the fans, would like to see.

wrc_flipper

17th June 2008, 12:04

[quote="At the moment it is ridiculous how drivers are able to slow and I think is sneaky and not really in the spirit of rallying. Personally I think if you take all the rules that have come in during the last 10 years then we might be back somewhere nearer to what we, the fans, would like to see.[/quote"]

Personally I think tactical positioning is great.
Its shows the teams and drivers are considering the best positioning for the next day it also must help with tyre ware and car parts as you are not driving flat-out all weekend you can make a decision on what is happening during the event and adjust the tactics accordingly
If provides a better rally and its only going to possibly work on Gravel and ice events anyway!

Brother John

17th June 2008, 12:25

Personally I think tactical positioning is great.
Its shows the teams and drivers are considering the best positioning for the next day it also must help with tyre ware and car parts as you are not driving flat-out all weekend you can make a decision on what is happening during the event and adjust the tactics accordingly
If provides a better rally and its only going to possibly work on Gravel and ice events anyway!

The solution is very simple. There must be no next day.
Real Rally is not a 8.00AM till 5.00PM job. More service places and night stages.
Rally from Thursday evening to Saturday night and and official podium on Sunday morow. :s mokin:

MrJan

17th June 2008, 12:41

jonkka

18th June 2008, 05:29

I don't think it would be too hard to police. All communications go via FIA/ISC plane, so it would be easy to ban comm's between team and drivers during stages. Also with in-car cameras it is easy to police that no-one shows "pit-boards".

How about three guys with green t-shirts on at certain hairpin - or, if driver is three seconds down, the t-shirts are red? You can't ban spectators, can you?

jonkka

18th June 2008, 05:33

What is the point in running the first day at all if the quickest drivers purposefully lose all the time they've gained?

I agree fully, tactics make waste of one full day of rallying and these days, it usually is the second longest day even. Effectively, tactics cut out circa 40% of the show by nulling the first day. With rallies so short and repetitive these days, this is a major loss of show.

Not to mention alienating the fans who dislike the unsporting side of this practice.

Daniel

18th June 2008, 08:45

I don't see how having cars that aren't driving at their best improves the sport. Rallying should be about trying to go fast not messing about with tactics. Poncey farting about is for chess not motorsport and I don't really want to see it. At Turkey the fans didn't get to see the best driver (4 time WDC Loeb) driving to his full potential on every stage because even Henning Solberg was slowing at the end of the stage.

What is the point in running the first day at all if the quickest drivers purposefully lose all the time they've gained? And drivers should take care of tyres and parts in general, not just by cheating at the end of the day, because that is what rallying is supposed to be about.

I agree fully, tactics make waste of one full day of rallying and these days, it usually is the second longest day even. Effectively, tactics cut out circa 40% of the show by nulling the first day. With rallies so short and repetitive these days, this is a major loss of show.

Not to mention alienating the fans who dislike the unsporting side of this practice.

Couldn't agree more with both of these posts :up:

I don't get why people think these tactics are so great either. Our toilet seat has enough reasoning power to realise that if you aren't first on the road on day 2 you can build up a big lead on day 2. Now Audi's strategy at Le Mans WAS brilliant. They realised they didn't have the outright speed to challenge Peugeot so they decided they would take Peugeot on with fuel efficiency as well as having a setup which worked in the wet. Now Audi didn't win because Peugeot were at some sort of disadvantage because they were the fastest. Peugeot could have worked harder on their wet setup but they didn't and they could have slowed down and saved fuel but they didn't. It was Peugeot's race to lose and they lost. I wanted Peugeot to win but I wasn't disappointed when the Audi took the flag. It was a fair fight with no underhanded tactics and the best team clearly won. I do dearly hope that Finland is dry as a bone with lots of loose gravel.