Grid penalty + fuelling allowance

[greencroft]

I would have put this in the Hamilton penalty thread but that's been closed.

Just a query as to whether the fuelling restrictions will be applied to Hamilton based on his actual Q3 qualifying time (assuming for a moment he gets into Q3) or his adjusted start position after his 10 place penalty is taken into account.

So will he have to start from say P11 but with the fuel he finished Q3 with or will he have the freedom to put whatever fuel he wants in like any of the other runners from P11 on?

[ArrowsFA1]

Fuel should certainly be based on his actual Q3 qualifying time IMHO, but I don't know the rules.

[Mark]

Fuel will be according to where he finishes in Q3. As the penalty is applied after qualifying by simply taking 10 from his position. So presuming he gets into Q3 then he will have to qualify with race fuel.

The person in 11th position will start the race 10th with whatever fuel they like.

[TMorel]

My understanding is that any car that makes it into Q3 has to start on the fuel allowance they qualify on.
If they don't even attempt the final qualifying but still made it into Q3 then they have to inform the officials what fuel allowance they want.

Basically if Lewis wants to be 11th then he has to qualify on his regular fuel load, get pole then take the 10 place hit.

So as I understand the rules looking at it yesterday he has to run the normal fuel set up just as any other qualifying session and suck up his punishment like a man

[Big Ben]

hurry up people before jannepi closes this thread too. freedom of speech became a myth ever since he was made one of the GODS.

[trumperZ06]

hurry up people before jannepi closes this thread too. freedom of speech became a myth ever since he was made one of the GODS.

;) Hhmmmm..... Jan's NOT a GOD....

:D Even though... Andrea was a GODDESS !!!



:dozey: Gonna be a tough call for McLaren....

Hamilton's 10 spot penalty may force them to go with very light fuel in Q-3
hoping to wind up (after the penalty) in 11th or 12th, refueling very early at the start of the race.

[jens]

It depends, how competitive McLaren is at Magny-Cours. The answer will come during Q1 and Q2 probably if not earlier. If it's among the quickest cars, then probably there won't be a problem - try to qualify with a "normal" fuel load and fight for a position in Top2. But if the car is good enough for P4-P5 on merit, then it's becoming difficult. A very light fuel load to get P11 on the grid?

I don't think heavy fuel load is beneficial (unless there is a SC), because he would start somewhere among places P15-P20 and it's really difficult to fight up from there. And those, who start from similar places or a bit ahead, will be running with heavy fuel load too, so he'll be stuck behind them for quite long anyway.

Hamilton is usually aggressive at the starts, so I guess after starting from P11 he could already be in a point-scoring position by the end of the first lap.

[F1boat]

Or he could crash, into Alonso most likely.

[ioan]

:dozey: Gonna be a tough call for McLaren....

Hamilton's 10 spot penalty may force them to go with very light fuel in Q-3
hoping to wind up (after the penalty) in 11th or 12th, refueling very early at the start of the race.

What good would that be? He'll be back with the "monkeys" in no time.
They'll fuel him heavy and hope he manages to get 4th or 5th place. Of course they will fuel Heikki even heavier, so that he doesn't interfere with Lewy's quest for 4th place! ;)

[F1boat]

McLaren already hinted that Lewis will have a very long first stint. Read it somewhere on P-F1.

[trumperZ06]

What good would that be? He'll be back with the "monkeys" in no time.
They'll fuel him heavy and hope he manages to get 4th or 5th place. Of course they will fuel Heikki even heavier, so that he doesn't interfere with Lewy's quest for 4th place! ;)

:p : It's really quite simple... even a "MONKEY" should be able to understand this.

Pay attention...

There are very good reasons why you try to start at the front of the grid.... fewer cars to pass !!!


Hamilton's being moved back 10 spots from where he qualifies...

So, with a very light fuel load and soft tires, he should start in row six (given he qualifies 1st or 2nd).

Starting from row six is much better than futher down the grid... which is where he's is most likely to be...
if he tries to carry a heavy fuel load in Q-3.

It's much easier to gain positions at the beginning of the race (both at the start and in the first couple of laps)...

than waiting... and getting stuck back in the pack.

:s mokin: Trumper

[Garry Walker]

Hamilton is usually aggressive at the starts, so I guess after starting from P11 he could already be in a point-scoring position by the end of the first lap.

Let`s hope he won`t crash into one of those monkeys he will have to fight with.

[trumperZ06]

Let`s hope he won`t crash into one of those monkeys he will have to fight with.

;) Many journeymen drivers... need at least a lap or two...

to work their way up to full speed... Cold tires & Brakes as well as nerves.


:D LH is a very quick driver and should easily move up during the first two or three laps.

Both Mario Andretti & Jackie Stewart (and others)... commented that being quick off the start is a real opportunity to gain ground...

[Garry Walker]

;) Many journeymen drivers... need at least a lap or two...

to work their way up to full speed... Cold tires & Brakes as well as nerves.


I guess that is why LH managed to crash at Canada.

[truefan72]

yawn, how predictable

2 threads quickly degenerate into Hamilton bashing

I guess we can't talk about this issue or even Ferrari brake bias adjustments before it quickly deteriotes into the usual rhetoric.
LOL

[Valve Bounce]

I would not be surprised if Lewis Hamilton goes for a one stopper. However, that does mean he cannot drop more than around half a minute behind the leaders if he wants to make it onto the podium.

[truefan72]

I would not be surprised if Lewis Hamilton goes for a one stopper. However, that does mean he cannot drop more than around half a minute behind the leaders if he wants to make it onto the podium.

I'm not too sure, the problem might be the degradation of the supersofts which I hear they are probasbly bringing to France. It also depends on how good his start is going to be. I think he'll be on a 2 stopper. Magny Cours is a fairly good trakc for overtaking. The entrance into the main strait, at the adelaide corner and Lycee bend. He should be able tyo make up postions there if he lines up 11,12,13,14, on the grid.

But I fgues we will just have to wait and see. Both he and Nico have some interesting decisions to make.

[Valve Bounce]

Given the pace of the McLaren, and Hamilton's ability, he might make it onto the podium then. His main mission should be to salvage as many points as possible rather than take any chances and run off the track.

[airshifter]

With his driving ability, I think the team still has options on what fuel load to start him with. If they run him light in Q3, he can potentially start 11th on light fuel. I would assume they would run him heavier, as even with a fairly high fuel load chances are he can outqualify at least 3 or 4 of the top ten. That puts him back as far as 17th on the grid, but with one less pit stop to make, or the option of short filling with new tires when track positions favor it.

[trumperZ06]

I guess that is why LH managed to crash at Canada.

:p : WRONG !!!



;) The accident/driver error in Canada was a completely different situation.... which resulted in the 10 spot penalty !!!

[Hawkmoon]

Magny-Cours is traditionally very light on tyre wear so I don't think running a long stint on the options will be a problem, even for Hamilton who struggles with tyre wear from time to time.

The interesting thing is that Magny-Cours seems to one of the few circuits that favours a multiple-stop strategy. It's not that unusual for teams to use a three stopper. Schumi won with a 4 stopper back in '04.

I think McLaren will run Hamilton with a pretty much normal 2 stop fuel load, which should see him qualify in the top 4 quite easily. From no worse than 14th I think he can get 5th behind the Ferraris and BMWs. Kovalainen will be moved aside one way or another and the McLaren is easily fast enough to beat the Red Bulls, Renaults and Williams that will be starting in front of him on similar 2 stop strategies.

[Valve Bounce]

With his driving ability, I think the team still has options on what fuel load to start him with. If they run him light in Q3, he can potentially start 11th on light fuel. I would assume they would run him heavier, as even with a fairly high fuel load chances are he can outqualify at least 3 or 4 of the top ten. That puts him back as far as 17th on the grid, but with one less pit stop to make, or the option of short filling with new tires when track positions favor it.

The danger of starting light is getting blocked for many laps by a slower driver who will fight tooth and nail to keep his position; and starting tenth, it is quite possible he would have to contend with the likes of Trulli, Webber and Alonso, who would not let anyone pass under any circumstances.

Starting heavy would make it more difficult to have a decent Q3 which again would put him into the clutches of Vettel, Sutil or Glock who would simply take him out going into the first corner.

So, maybe a standard two stopper might turn out to e his best option.

[Tazio]

I think if Hamilton starts just light enough to insure (how do you do that) a spot on row 6.
On the option he has a very good chance of picking off 3 to 5 or 6 cars in the first three laps.
If he gets stuck in a bad track position they will just have to bring him in a little early.
I don't see him runing a one stopper at Magney-Cours
that has one of the shortest pit in, and outs on the season! It's not his style anyway!
JMHO