View Full Version : EU referendum in Ireland
Rudy Tamasz
9th June 2008, 12:55
What do you EU guys think of the vote on Lisboa treaty about to be held in Ireland this week? My question pertains not so much to the yay/nay issue but rather to how much the people's opinion really matters in this case.
I am asking because I think there is too much pressure is being put on the Irish to vote 'yes' and there is too much propaganda is on air. Recently the French Minister of Foreign Affairs Kouchner said that the Irish will punish themselves by saying 'no'. IMHO, it is not the business of somebody not elected by and not accountable to the Irish telling them what to do. I am also afraid that once the vote is negative Brussels will shove the positive answer down the collective Irish throats by forcing them to vote again and again and increasing the amounts of propaganda.
Vote NO. Its a watered down version of what was rejected by Europe in 2005.
Keep your say, vote NO.
The big question is why the Lisbon treaty was not put to the people of every country in the EU. Every government ratified the treaty on behalf of each country. That's the worrying thing.
Well, it's good that somewhere is holding a vote. Because you know the UK will never get one :p :
^ but we'd already know how the UK would vote ;)
That's why we're not having one ;)
Rudy Tamasz
10th June 2008, 07:13
This is why I have a problem with EU. I totally disapprove of the current pro-Russian policies of my government and ideally EU could have been a decent alternative for Belarus. But the way Brussels and national governments treat their voters pi$$es me off. Once you are in your voice doesn't matter and you end up being told what to do.
This is why I have a problem with EU. I totally disapprove of the current pro-Russian policies of my government and ideally EU could have been a decent alternative for Belarus. But the way Brussels and national governments treat their voters pi$$es me off. Once you are in your voice doesn't matter and you end up being told what to do.
so says the guy who thinks that by NOT voting that you tell the gubinint that you dont need them.
use your vote wisely.
Mark
10th June 2008, 09:37
Ireland will be interesting because it's completely unlike the UK as regards attitudes to Europe, being one of the most pro-Europe countries in the EU, and yet it still looks like they may well vote no.
I think they are having the same problems that affect this sort of thing in the UK. They are just getting lots of spin and rhetoric from both sides of the argument and very little in detailed facts.
ioan
10th June 2008, 10:03
They are just getting lots of spin and rhetoric from both sides of the argument and very little in detailed facts.
That's the way politics work these days.
They consider that the people are all idiots and don't need the facts in order to think for themselves, only conclusions that push them one way or the other. :s
Rudy Tamasz
10th June 2008, 12:31
so says the guy who thinks that by NOT voting that you tell the gubinint that you dont need them.
use your vote wisely.
Tell me honestly how successful have you been in proving your point to the gubinint through the vote. I haven't been successful at all and speak from experience. I am afraid the result of the referendum will prove me right yet again.
In general the democracy is being eroded all over the world including Europe. Political elites are buying people off with economic prosperity and a healthy dose of individual liberties in return for their political rights.
Rudy Tamasz
13th June 2008, 14:31
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/06/13/news/Ireland-EU-Referendum.php
Ireland appears to reject EU treaty
DUBLIN, Ireland: Substantial referendum returns show that Ireland has rejected the European Union reform treaty amid a wave of antiestablishment sentiment, Irish government ministers and the state broadcaster RTE said Friday.
Now the question is will the politicians still be able to forcefeed the failed Treaty to the people despite such a crushing defeat. Methinks it's not impossible...
In general the democracy is being eroded all over the world including Europe. Political elites are buying people off with economic prosperity and a healthy dose of individual liberties in return for their political rights.
I agree with you.
Ireland votes NO. Time for the governments to start listening to what their people want, not for what's in it for the so-called elected representatives.
52Paddy
14th June 2008, 20:39
The government of Ireland certainly won't be happy to have to explain their country's rejection to the treaty [considering Cowan, Kenny and Gilmore wanted a yes to the treaty.]
.
Time for the governments to start listening to what their people want, not for what's in it for the so-called elected representatives.
Absolutely. I feel our government are becoming whipping boys to the 'elite representatives.' It makes us appear like an almost vulnerable nation. The NO vote that was passed will let the EU know where our people stand but, with such a small margin [percent wise] between YES and NO, I'm afraid that we may have to deal with this again. Hopefully, we have learned from the mistakes of the Nice Treaty and our vote will hold strong.
The government of Ireland certainly won't be happy to have to explain their country's rejection to the treaty [considering Cowan, Kenny and Gilmore wanted a yes to the treaty.]
.
Absolutely. I feel our government are becoming whipping boys to the 'elite representatives.' It makes us appear like an almost vulnerable nation. The NO vote that was passed will let the EU know where our people stand but, with such a small margin [percent wise] between YES and NO, I'm afraid that we may have to deal with this again. Hopefully, we have learned from the mistakes of the Nice Treaty and our vote will hold strong.
Hi paddy, nice to see you around.
I cant see this treaty being put to the irish people again. Every EU referendum I can remember had multiple arguments for and against. The govt always got lucky because the people would vote in favour because they dont want us to be the laughing stock of Europe. The EU still exists today, the same it did last Thursday.
Garry Walker
15th June 2008, 17:17
The big question is why the Lisbon treaty was not put to the people of every country in the EU. Every government ratified the treaty on behalf of each country. That's the worrying thing.
They will not put it to vote, simply because they well know People will reject this idiocy.
funny how politicians are eager to get rid of the powers their electors want them to keep.
Daniel
15th June 2008, 22:45
Nice to see you around Paddy :)
52Paddy
16th June 2008, 09:06
You too guys! With exams finishing soon, I can focus on motorsport [and, em, politics apparently :p :] again! :D
Daniel
16th June 2008, 09:11
You too guys! With exams finishing soon, I can focus on motorsport [and, em, politics apparently :p :] again! :D
It's funny. I've got a Northern Irish friend who's uber-interested in politics as well. Is everyone from the emerald isle interested in politics?
fandango
16th June 2008, 11:06
Maybe that's why Ireland got to vote!
You too guys! With exams finishing soon, I can focus on motorsport [and, em, politics apparently :p :] again! :D
Are you doing the leaving?
52Paddy
17th June 2008, 11:10
It's funny. I've got a Northern Irish friend who's uber-interested in politics as well. Is everyone from the emerald isle interested in politics?
I wouldn't say most people are properly interested. A lot of people I know tend to support a certain group or person so they become part of a following, not because they actually care. But thats not just with politics.
Are you doing the leaving?
I am, just have music on Thursday agus sin é. Táim chríochnaite. :D
Roamy
17th June 2008, 16:32
you guys are screwing up you whole series of countries and trying to have one giant garbage can like we have. Bad Choice. You used to have a whole series of world charm and very interesting people, fun, proud people. now you are trying to herd everyone around a shove sauerkraut and kidney pie up the asses. Go back to the good old days. Let Portugal be Portugal and Italy be Italy.
Drew
17th June 2008, 17:04
You mean the good old days of the dictatorships, Fousto? ;)
Roamy
18th June 2008, 07:41
yea those days - with coups too - underground spy sh!t - sleazy hookers in stilletos - Guards at the border to keep out the riftraft - fake passports - yea those days. Hell this democracy is not working look who we have to vote for.
No smoking - $10,000 dui's for having a couple of drinks.
Daniel
18th June 2008, 09:06
I wouldn't say most people are properly interested. A lot of people I know tend to support a certain group or person so they become part of a following, not because they actually care. But thats not just with politics.
Just seems that most people from Ireland/NI that I've met or talked to seem quite interested and not just because they support one particular group or something :)
I am, just have music on Thursday agus sin é. Táim chríochnaite. :D
Wow, it was only a few years back and you were just starting.
Comhghairdeachas agus Maith thu!
52Paddy
19th June 2008, 00:14
Just seems that most people from Ireland/NI that I've met or talked to seem quite interested and not just because they support one particular group or something :)
That's fair enough. Remember, you would be talking to adults, I'm still a teenager so I suppose that explains it. I should have mentioned that.
Drew
19th June 2008, 03:19
yea those days - with coups too - underground spy sh!t - sleazy hookers in stilletos - Guards at the border to keep out the riftraft - fake passports - yea those days. Hell this democracy is not working look who we have to vote for.
No smoking - $10,000 dui's for having a couple of drinks.
Sometimes I think that, sometimes I think I wish I was living in Spain during the Franco era. Then I think it's probably better to live in a crap democracy than a crap dictatorship. Either way you're gonna hate something about it, but at least in a democracy you can openly say it's rubbish ;)
Daniel
19th June 2008, 09:01
That's fair enough. Remember, you would be talking to adults, I'm still a teenager so I suppose that explains it. I should have mentioned that.
I know :) It's good to see young people taking an interest in politics :up: You don't sound like the type of person who is going to blindly vote for a party just because they give empty promises like some parties do :)
That's fair enough. Remember, you would be talking to adults, I'm still a teenager so I suppose that explains it. I should have mentioned that.
Paddy is way more knowlegeable beyond his years :up:
Go on ya good thing
Drew
21st July 2008, 22:11
I see the government has ratified the Lisbon Treaty here, they kept that pretty quiet or is it just me?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7511281.stm
I see the government has ratified the Lisbon Treaty here, they kept that pretty quiet or is it just me?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7511281.stm
They kept it quiet, I'd love to see a UK vote on an EU treaty though.
Sarko came to Ireland today to tell us how annoyed he is that the Ezbo treaty wont be ratified on his watch.
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