What's Wrong With Nicky Hayden These Days?

[wedge]

Why is it he's struggling these days to match Pedrosa?

[ChrisS]

one of the reasons is that the bike does not suit him, he even suffers from back pain because he is not comfortable on the bike

[Mach24]

Back pain.... Hahahaha, he has been beaten by people with fractured bones.

Lets face it, Nicky is a good rider and has a MotoGP World Championship to his name, but so does Alex Creville and Kenny Roberts Jr. I do not rate the guy, he just does not have the drive to take him to the next level. He won at a time when Honda were clearly the cream. Suddenly the depth is deep. Nicky has been found wanting, if the size of the Honda is the issue I would like to see him move on and do better elsewhere!

[MrJan]

Because he's rubbish :p :


Seriously I don't think he is on the same level as Pedrosa, Rossi, Jorge and Stoner, or even Dovi and JT.

I know it takes a certain amount of talent to win the WC but he had an easy year. The Honda was good but everyone seemed to have a poor year and it was the most uninteresting WC win ever because he just did it by coming second a lot.

[patnicholls]

A few things come into it.

I think the change to 800s hasn't suited him. In the same way that it really hurt Kenny Roberts.

2006 was full of weirdness on several levels - clearly racing is full of "if only" situations but if it hadn't been for the big first-corner crash at Catalunya, things could've looked quite different in the championship with Marco and Loris being hurt (you may remember Loris' ride to a single point for 15th at Assen despite breathing difficulties). It was a championship where no-one looked like they wanted to win it (Marco and Valentino - both injured - took 7th and 8th at Assen, Valentino having crashed in quali and started last). And then of course there was Estoril and then Valentino's crash at Valencia. So in a sense Nicky had a few slices of luck to help him win the title, but of course he didn't crash and they did, so that's that.

Another thing to bear in mind that during 2006 Nicky's bike was vaunted as the 'development mule' for the then-forthcoming 800 machine. So in other words, he was testing bits and pieces for 2007 which meant he was trying new stuff rather than using a tried-and-tested piece of kit (as Dani and Marco did) which put him at a disadvantage. On that basis, him being a title contender was unlikely in theory.

There is of course a thin line between clever and stupid (in the words of Spinal Tap) and in a field full of world champions if everything's not absolutely perfect you'll find yourself near the back. Just ask Marco this year.

Nicky's title win won't rank him alongside any of the greats - but personally I like him, as he's something a bit different.

Nicky's title win won't rank him alongside any of the greats - but personally I like him, as he's something a bit different.

ditto. How do you think he would go in superbikes? (I can't remember if he has ridden sbk in the past).

[Mach24]

ditto. How do you think he would go in superbikes? (I can't remember if he has ridden sbk in the past).

He rode sbk in the US of A, but not on the World stage.

I think he would be top 5, but not a stand out in WSBK.

However I think that is where he would be most suited.

After all the big horsepower, slide it in style works for him.

[Mach24]

Yet another mid pack performance from Nicki (if Dani has an 'i' so should NickY).

There is no question the bike has increased in physical size from last year, if at all confused take a look at Dovi's bike, last years bike that finished ahead of Nicki.

Looks like his team couldn't afford a full tank of fuel at today's prices in Assen.

[Roby44]

Yet another mid pack performance from Nicki (if Dani has an 'i' so should NickY).

There is no question the bike has increased in physical size from last year, if at all confused take a look at Dovi's bike, last years bike that finished ahead of Nicki.


Can I just look at Dovi!! :eek: :eek: ;)

[Corny]

`The bikes have so much electronics now, sometimes it is not the guy who rides hardest that wins it is the guy who hits the right buttons on his computer.´

What he said on Motogp.com.....

[ShiftingGears]

`The bikes have so much electronics now, sometimes it is not the guy who rides hardest that wins it is the guy who hits the right buttons on his computer.´

What he said on Motogp.com.....

If he hasn't learnt that being the fastest means being the smoothest, concentrating the most, and maintaining momentum through the corners rather than scrubbing it off on entry slides, I don't think he ever will.

[maxu05]

I think some of the posts have been a little unfair. Nicky is never going to be in the same league as Vale, Stoner, Pedrosa or Lorenzo. They are freaks IMO. Nicky is a battler, just getting where he is by slogging away. If you look at riders like Melandri, Elias, Guintoli, and West, they are struggling to get to grips with their bikes. Melandri is a great rider, and former 250cc champ, he has the talent, but, that means bugger all if the bike feels all wrong for you. The same can be said for Elias and Guintoli. If you look at the yamaha team, you see a similar situation. I think the Yamaha factory bike was built to suit Vale, sure, Heehaw has been fast, but I really think he is riding it over the limit to achieve the results, that's why he has crashed so many times. So what do you do in this situation ? Do you push the bike harder than you feel comfortable and crash risking injury ? Or, do you ride in your comfort zone and finish the race, to fight another day. I think that is Nicky's position, and don't think he should be knocked for that. I am not even a fan of Hayden, but, I can see that he is doing his best.

[jim mcglinchey]

Are there similarities emerging between Nickys mechanical woes and those of Max Biaggi in his last year at Honda? What could HRC possibly gain by sabotaging riders who had fallen out of favour?

[seb_sh]

I agree Nicky was never that good, his title is due more to consistency and some bad luck for most of the other contenders and while the bike is probably not suited to him I don't think it's just that. He's a nice guy though but I don't think he can get any good results in MotoGP anymore, whatever the bike. Superbike might be different for him, he can probably get in the top 5 like someone said so I think that would be the right choice for him.

[leopard]

Are there similarities emerging between Nickys mechanical woes and those of Max Biaggi in his last year at Honda? What could HRC possibly gain by sabotaging riders who had fallen out of favour?

Probably we shall see him great riding main team of Ducati. :)

Teams can fire out anytime if they found rider doesn't meet their standard once contract ended up, or in the middle of season provided termination is beneficial for both parties.

I wasn't really sure that a rider has ever complained being sabotaged by team nor the team has intentionally sabotaged their rider, this wasn't supposed to happen. ;)

I believe that Honda has long been regarded as a highly ethical company and manufacturer of high quality products. The only reason for the company's involvement in various aspects of motorsport is to maintain and increase its market-share.

Admittedly, over the past year or so, they seem to have focussed more on developing Dani Pebrosa's machinery and to have used Nicky Hayden more as a development rider.

However, in my opinion, it would be preposterous to suggest that Honda would do anything other than its absolute best to increase its position in the manufacturer's standings. :bomb:

[markabilly]

Clearly due to superior feedback, Nicky has been the development rider for the team. Using the new engine and such. And due to his physical size, he is hindered by trying to get down on the smaller bike more than someone like Stoner, who is no bigger than a typical 15 year old. Some larger riders may not have the problems and some do, but make no mistake, in the day of electronics and advanced cluthches where the key is no longer the ability to have magic throttle control to hurdle out faster, the key is now late braking, great corner entry speed and momentum through the corner, coupled with the lighter weight of a rider, gives the lighter rider a real advantage.

So for all you would be daddies of Motogp world champions, who want your three year olds to grow up to be Motogp winners, better start not feeding them and start stunting their growth ASAP, otherwise they might grow up to be 5 foot 10 inches and weighing 160lbs--too big and fat for motogp!!!!

sabotage??? :rotflmao: get real

Clearly due to superior feedback, Nicky has been the development rider for the team. Using the new engine and such. And due to his physical size, he is hindered by trying to get down on the smaller bike more than someone like Stoner, who is no bigger than a typical 15 year old. Some larger riders may not have the problems and some do, but make no mistake, in the day of electronics and advanced cluthches where the key is no longer the ability to have magic throttle control to hurdle out faster, the key is now late braking, great corner entry speed and momentum through the corner, coupled with the lighter weight of a rider, gives the lighter rider a real advantage.

So for all you would be daddies of Motogp world champions, who want your three year olds to grow up to be Motogp winners, better start not feeding them and start stunting their growth ASAP, otherwise they might grow up to be 5 foot 10 inches and weighing 160lbs--too big and fat for motogp!!!!

sabotage??? :rotflmao: get real

Hayden obviously suffered as a result of the size of the factory Hondas being reduced to suit Dani Pedrosa.

I opened a thread in late May in respect of MotoGp combined rider/bike weights to discuss this basic issue more from the weight perspective. As far as height is concerned, even Valentino Rossi can tuck in behind his screen.

At that stage there were 7 MGP riders weighing less than 60kg with Dani Pedrosa being the smallest/lightest at 160cm & 51 kg. By comparison, Stoner's height is 171cm and weight 58kg.

Check out rider's details on the MotoGP site.

[Mach24]

Clearly due to superior feedback, Nicky has been the development rider for the team. Using the new engine and such. And due to his physical size, he is hindered by trying to get down on the smaller bike more than someone like Stoner, who is no bigger than a typical 15 year old. Some larger riders may not have the problems and some do, but make no mistake, in the day of electronics and advanced cluthches where the key is no longer the ability to have magic throttle control to hurdle out faster, the key is now late braking, great corner entry speed and momentum through the corner, coupled with the lighter weight of a rider, gives the lighter rider a real advantage.

So for all you would be daddies of Motogp world champions, who want your three year olds to grow up to be Motogp winners, better start not feeding them and start stunting their growth ASAP, otherwise they might grow up to be 5 foot 10 inches and weighing 160lbs--too big and fat for motogp!!!!

sabotage??? :rotflmao: get real

How do you explain Valentino Rossi's success?

Be careful with your answer as it may implicate Nicki.

[markabilly]

Hayden obviously suffered as a result of the size of the factory Hondas being reduced to suit Dani Pedrosa.

I opened a thread in late May in respect of MotoGp combined rider/bike weights to discuss this basic issue more from the weight perspective. As far as height is concerned, even Valentino Rossi can tuck in behind his screen.

At that stage there were 7 MGP riders weighing less than 60kg with Dani Pedrosa being the smallest/lightest at 160cm & 51 kg. By comparison, Stoner's height is 171cm and weight 58kg.

Check out rider's details on the MotoGP site.
metric means nothing to me...having seen Stoner in the flesh he is a runt, and rossi looks like a bean pole, sort of like ron wood of the stones....whereas poor Nicky has got a bit of mass on him...clear from observing the boys up close and personal,

Quote from Markabilly..........
"metric means nothing to me...having seen Stoner in the flesh he is a runt, and rossi looks like a bean pole, sort of like ron wood of the stones....whereas poor Nicky has got a bit of mass on him...clear from observing the boys up close and personal,"

What you really mean is that you don't know how to convert metric to imperial.
I'll help you out...........Pedrosa Ht= 5'3" Wt= 112.4lbs
Stoner Ht= 5'7" Wt= 127.9lbs
In relation to your other critical comments regarding the appearances of Stoner and Rossi......The runt and bean-pole are pretty bloody good riders......aren't they?

Pity we can't all look like we are straight out of "The Bold and the Beautiful".

[The Phantom]

I've just been watching the 2006 season review, and one thing that's clear to me is just how hard Hayden rode that year. Capirex was the standout for sure (and could/should have taken Ducatis first MotoGP title) but Hayden was on it all year, and IMO was a worthy winner (to finish first, first you must finish).

The 2007 bike was off the pace for the first half of the season, Hayden came back a bit in the second half and at PI he was on Stoner's tail and looking very comfortable until his bike expired; but by then he was far out of title contention and probably focused on the 2008 bike.

I'd say he's a victim of internal politics more than anything else.

[e2mtt]

According to the Indianapolis GP website, Nicky ( & Colin Edwards) are 152 pounds. Rossi is 148, not much less. However, Stoner is 128 and Dani is a jockey-sized 112! If the 800 Honda has really been designed around Dani, Nicky is 40 pounds overweight!

The 800s are smaller bikes, with smaller engines, that give the little guys & the smoother guys more of an advantage. I don't think it is any surprise at all who has dominated since the change. (I think it was a bad change, for what it is worth. I liked knowing that the 990s had so much power that they were detuned to increase ridability!)

If you watch Nicky closely, he still rides a lot like a dirt tracker. He backs the bike in, slides corners a lot, and gets on the power hard. The harder he is pushing, the more his bike bucks around. He almost never rides with that glassy smoothness that Rossi & some others can. He and his riding style just isn't as well suited to the 800s. In fact he has complained more than once that the 800s power just doesn't come on fast enough, and that was partly why he wanted to switch to the pnuematic engine so bad.

I think it is great that Nicky got a championship. He stepped up at the perfect time, on the big bikes, and took advantage of other's stumbles, and pushed for all he was worth. (And somehow didn't let Dani ruin it for him, despite Dani's best efforts!) If in fact Nicky does end up at Ducati next year, it might do him good, as Ducati has very good muscle.

[markabilly]

Quote from Markabilly..........
"metric means nothing to me...having seen Stoner in the flesh he is a runt, and rossi looks like a bean pole, sort of like ron wood of the stones....whereas poor Nicky has got a bit of mass on him...clear from observing the boys up close and personal,"

What you really mean is that you don't know how to convert metric to imperial.
I'll help you out...........Pedrosa Ht= 5'3" Wt= 112.4lbs
Stoner Ht= 5'7" Wt= 127.9lbs
In relation to your other critical comments regarding the appearances of Stoner and Rossi......The runt and bean-pole are pretty bloody good riders......aren't they?

Pity we can't all look like we are straight out of "The Bold and the Beautiful".


Thanks, I needed that.......conversion to american,

and in motogp, I think those guys that struggle to barely make the field, the ones that no one can remember their names, the ones that certain posters love to pick at and bash, those guys who qualify last, are all "pretty bloody good riders as well"

I can not think of one who is not......

[Mach24]

According to the Indianapolis GP website, Nicky ( & Colin Edwards) are 152 pounds. Rossi is 148, not much less. However, Stoner is 128 and Dani is a jockey-sized 112! If the 800 Honda has really been designed around Dani, Nicky is 40 pounds overweight!

The 800s are smaller bikes, with smaller engines, that give the little guys & the smoother guys more of an advantage. I don't think it is any surprise at all who has dominated since the change. (I think it was a bad change, for what it is worth. I liked knowing that the 990s had so much power that they were detuned to increase ridability!)

If you watch Nicky closely, he still rides a lot like a dirt tracker. He backs the bike in, slides corners a lot, and gets on the power hard. The harder he is pushing, the more his bike bucks around. He almost never rides with that glassy smoothness that Rossi & some others can. He and his riding style just isn't as well suited to the 800s. In fact he has complained more than once that the 800s power just doesn't come on fast enough, and that was partly why he wanted to switch to the pnuematic engine so bad.

I think it is great that Nicky got a championship. He stepped up at the perfect time, on the big bikes, and took advantage of other's stumbles, and pushed for all he was worth. (And somehow didn't let Dani ruin it for him, despite Dani's best efforts!) If in fact Nicky does end up at Ducati next year, it might do him good, as Ducati has very good muscle.


Good honest post!

Nicki was/is better suited to the higher horsepower and was luck/capitalised when many around him failed.

We can never take that world title away from Nicki and we should never use his size to say that is why he is no longer fighting for the championship victory.

[markabilly]

According to the Indianapolis GP website, Nicky ( & Colin Edwards) are 152 pounds. Rossi is 148, not much less. However, Stoner is 128 and Dani is a jockey-sized 112! If the 800 Honda has really been designed around Dani, Nicky is 40 pounds overweight!

The 800s are smaller bikes, with smaller engines, that give the little guys & the smoother guys more of an advantage. I don't think it is any surprise at all who has dominated since the change. (I think it was a bad change, for what it is worth. I liked knowing that the 990s had so much power that they were detuned to increase ridability!)

If you watch Nicky closely, he still rides a lot like a dirt tracker. He backs the bike in, slides corners a lot, and gets on the power hard. The harder he is pushing, the more his bike bucks around. He almost never rides with that glassy smoothness that Rossi & some others can. He and his riding style just isn't as well suited to the 800s. In fact he has complained more than once that the 800s power just doesn't come on fast enough, and that was partly why he wanted to switch to the pnuematic engine so bad.

.
Why I still love the WSBK. Two races in a day!!

back before Motogp, at Seca, you could walk the pits, get up close and near as they used cargo containers for pits. It was great. The bridge was still low on the hill at the corkscrew, the racing was double the fun......then we get motogp, please stay away from the pits whenever it looks close to action time or we will stomp you with our police boots, all the mechancial work done in the deep dark shelter of pit boxes out of the public sight and so forth.

[NinjaMaster]

I actually think Nicky wold do very well on the Ducati. He clearly likes bikes with big power, which the Duc clearly is and after watching Stoner powersliding on the weekend, the Duc appears to be better suited to those of a dirt track background. Also, it looks phyically bigger with better protection for the larger Hayden to tuck out of the wind than the Honda. At the end of the day, he can't be worse than Melandri and no-one else around sticks out as being the man for the job I think. The boy can peddle a motorcycle, just don't expect him to be a consistent race winner to contend for the title.

[harsha]

Duke seems to have more power in it.....but then i'd rather have Hayden not in the duke