Calling Out Nay-Sayers

[call_me_andrew]

I won't name any names, but back at St. Petersberg I recall someone on this forum saying that Rahal's win was proof that driving on a road course places more emphasis on a driver while ovals place more emphasis on a car. I was just wondering if someone whom adheres to that philosophy can explain why Dreyer & Reinbold's car is so much better when Townsend Bell (11th place on Sunday) than Milka Duno (best finish was 11th at Texas last year with smaller field) at ovals. I mean by your logic it couldn't be the driver...

[harvick#1]

your comparing Townsend to Milka, theres the problem right there.

Townsend is very aggresive in the car and fights for everything its got, and Milka, well she tries to do well, she was much better off in Grand Am

[Civic]

Well, drivers are part of TEAMS. The driver is the focus, but don't forget about the hard work of the other people on the team to get the car competitive. What was that saying? "I'd rather have Newey than Schuey."

The best car is nothing without a good driver, while a good driver is a backmarker in a bad car. I think car setup might be relatively more important on an oval but I don't think you can isolate one variable to such a degree as "it's all about the car on an oval."

[millencolin]

are you comparing milwaukee to texas?

Its always been stated that Milwaukee is a track that doesnt favour aerodynamics and places more emphasis on the driver. Why did Will Power qualify in 4th? He will be woeful next week.

Its probably best to compare Duno and Bell on the same kind of oval first

[usgrandprix]

The simple truth is not all ovals are the same (that is, until NASCAR gets its way entirely).

The skill required to do a competative time is noticably less (or different, at least) at Texas/Chicago than it is at Richmond/Milwuakee/Phoenix. That's relative, mind you, as I don't think any are easy.

Plus, Milwaukee uses the road course wings and drag is not going to hurt you as much, so the new/small teams are not at as big a disadvantage and the driver can make a bigger difference. Back to the speedway wings at Texas where it's a lot more about low drag and hanging on for the ride. Texas is partly won in the wind tunnel. Good drivers on new/small teams will be sitting ducks. Servia could have won Sunday at Milwaukee, but he'll be a lap or two down at Texas. That might change once KVR gets some wind tunnel and fabrication time in the off season.

Tight ovals are brutal. You really have to be on the wheel all the time and expect traffic all day with these big fields. The driver's skill and decisions are huge, especially considering how crappy the tires have been lately.

I've actually heard drivers compare some of the tight ovals to road courses. Never heard that about Texas, of course.

[bblocker68]

The simple truth is not all ovals are the same (that is, until NASCAR gets its way entirely).

The skill required to do a competative time is noticably less (or different, at least) at Texas/Chicago than it is at Richmond/Milwuakee/Phoenix. That's relative, mind you, as I don't think any are easy.

Plus, Milwaukee uses the road course wings and drag is not going to hurt you as much, so the new/small teams are not at as big a disadvantage and the driver can make a bigger difference. Back to the speedway wings at Texas where it's a lot more about low drag and hanging on for the ride. Texas is partly won in the wind tunnel. Good drivers on new/small teams will be sitting ducks. Servia could have won Sunday at Milwaukee, but he'll be a lap or two down at Texas. That might change once KVR gets some wind tunnel and fabrication time in the off season.

Tight ovals are brutal. You really have to be on the wheel all the time and expect traffic all day with these big fields. The driver's skill and decisions are huge, especially considering how crappy the tires have been lately.

I've actually heard drivers compare some of the tight ovals to road courses. Never heard that about Texas, of course.

+1
Well said.

[call_me_andrew]

I think you guys may be missing the point. When Milka was racing at Texas, it was against a much smaller field. So an 11th place finish in an 18-car field is easier to get than an 11th place finish in a 24-car field. I was trying to show the driver can be just as important at an oval as he or she is at a road course.

[indycool]

True, Andrew.......Johnny Rutherford said it best years ago: "I never saw a car go very fast without a driver or a driver go very fast without a car."

[ShiftingGears]

I think you guys may be missing the point. When Milka was racing at Texas, it was against a much smaller field. So an 11th place finish in an 18-car field is easier to get than an 11th place finish in a 24-car field. I was trying to show the driver can be just as important at an oval as he or she is at a road course.

Playing devil's advocate here...

Car set-up comes into play moreso in ovals than road courses, where ovals do not allow a driver to drive around a poorly set-up car as much as a road course would.

[garyshell]

Playing devil's advocate here...

Car set-up comes into play moreso in ovals than road courses, where ovals do not allow a driver to drive around a poorly set-up car as much as a road course would.

I think it comes down to "margin of error". On a oval, if the car is "off" by a certain amount, the driver might be able to compensate and hang on. If it is "off" by over that amount, the driver doesn't have a prayer.

On a road course, I think, that magical amount by which the car can be "off" and the driver can still compensate is a bit larger.

Gary

[weeflyonthewall]

are you comparing milwaukee to texas?

Its always been stated that Milwaukee is a track that doesnt favour aerodynamics and places more emphasis on the driver. Why did Will Power qualify in 4th? He will be woeful next week.

Its probably best to compare Duno and Bell on the same kind of oval first

The same Milwaukee Mile that most drivers say is like a short road course with 4 quick left turns? During Legge's first outing she made a similar comment after finishing 6th. Didn't Tracy once say Milwaukee was one of the few ovals where drivers cannot go full throttle racing lap after lap.